There’s Nothing to see Here, Move Along Please

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142 Responses to "There’s Nothing to see Here, Move Along Please"

  1. mc79hockey says:

    Unrelated, but Lowe has obviously been using his spare time now that he’s not the GM (right) to learn at Rob Brown’s feet.

  2. Lowetide says:

    lol. Hair is a moving target.

  3. Dennis says:

    Kevin Lowe held a press conference today, and was Outstanding!

    /Bob Cole’d circa Gretzky’s anti-Canada rant in ’02

  4. bookie says:

    Well, I dunno, I could have watched the Oilers lose games in this fashion all season long.

  5. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    bookie said…
    Well, I dunno, I could have watched the Oilers lose games in this fashion all season long.

    That says more about you than it does about them.

  6. bookie says:

    I think you missed my point, I was happy to see a real honest heart and soul effort and if I saw that every night, but they lost because of a lucky shot or due to youthful mistakes, I would be happy.

    The lack of heart on so many nights has made it painful to watch.

  7. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    There are no good losers, only losers. – Vince Lombardi.

  8. Jonathan Willis says:

    “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.” – Vince Lombardi.

    No wait, I have that wrong.

    “Winning isn’t the only thing, it’s everything.” – Vince Lombardi.

    Or was I right the first time?

    At least FCM has the courtesy to use a Lombardi quote that makes sense.

  9. PunjabiOil says:

    This franchise has become a fucking joke.

    And Daryl Katz is coming closer to being on this side of the EIG.

  10. bookie says:

    Winning is not everything, but wanting to win is.

    Vince Lombardi

  11. Lowetide says:

    If you aren’t fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.

    Vince Lombardi

  12. Loxy says:

    The achievements of an organization are the results of the combined effort of each individual.

    Vince Lombardi

  13. hunter1909 says:

    Oilers need a great coach. A winner. A Vice Lombardi, or a Don Shula.

    Not some “defensive systems first” loser, or a “let’s play firewagon” loser either for that matter.

    Just someone who actually understands that the real game is played at both ends of the rink. That every player can be different than the guy next to him, and no one gets off the hook, no matter what.

    A guy who isn’t afraid to let the players vote for their captain, or to let a guy play to his talents.

    Above all, no favorites. Same goes for the management. No more ‘thank you for staying on this pathetic team because we’re retarded really’ deals.

  14. oilerdago says:

    Ok, so Katz may be nutty but he’s not stupid. If he thinks that by ordering Lowe to go downstairs and tell everyone what he wants that this is going to stop the chatter about the coach he’s wrong.

    I mean, seriously what does he think he just accomplished other than showing he has no PR sense whatsoever (nor does Klowe, or Jen Sharpe and so on)?

    It’s like the only person who really is smart in front of a camera in this organization is MacT.

  15. quain says:

    My passion is massive.

    Vince Lombardi

  16. Lowetide says:

    Vice Lombardi is kind of cool too, though.

  17. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    I don’t think there’s a punch-line scheduled, is there?
    - Vince Lombardi

    (no shit)

  18. Phil says:

    I’d settle for Vice Lombardi.

  19. Phil says:

    Shit, LT beat me to it.

  20. Jonathan Willis says:

    “The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have.”

    Vince Lombardi.

    Somewhat applicable to every player in this current mess, isn’t it?

  21. hunter1909 says:

    Oh, I didn’t realise there was even a game tonight.

    Coming from this fan, who used to spend hours of his valuable childhood riding buses to West Edmonton mall to see practises etc, I’d tell the short sighted, arrogant fools running the Oilers that the foundations of their team is starting to become a little shaky.

    MacT back next year? No sweat.

    PS: At least the USSR Commies pretended to give a shit about their people. Oilers and their media tools are more inclined to lecture them. Actually, why not just boot them out of town, and get one of the SE division franchises in a few years?

    I’d love to see Oilers Ltd scrambling to find another new, viable hockey market in the 21st century Great Depression.

  22. hunter1909 says:

    Jonathan: I think Vince(Vice?) was talking about coaches there.

    Therefore, Vince actually meant MacT.

  23. bookie says:

    Yes, the Edmonton Oilers are just like the Soviet Union, particularly during the atrocities of the Red Terror or the famine in the Ukraine…

    Can someone please equate KLowe to Hitler so that we can just move forward…

  24. hunter1909 says:

    I can imagine Don Shula taking over the Oilers, and at training camp assigns Horcoff to the third line.

    Then he tells macIntyre to lose 30 pounds and sticks him on defence, where he ends up winning the Norris trophy.

    That’s how a great coach works.

    Oh yeah, and Moreau sulks in the pressbox.

  25. hunter1909 says:

    bookie: I’m referring to the USSR propaganda machine here. Not it’s overall policies. Or history. Unless we’re talking Stanley Cup famines.

    Hopefully this small misunderstanding between us two good friends, who share LoweTide’s blog so we can chat amiably with each other can now be considered over.

    Or do you work for the Oilers, and only come in here to stir things up?

    :P

  26. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
    - Craig Mctavish

  27. bookie says:

    hunter1909 – nope from this point on I am declaring you an enemy of the state

  28. hunter1909 says:

    I am an enemy of the state – the current state of the Edmonton Oilers.

  29. Jonathan Willis says:

    Jonathan: I think Vince(Vice?) was talking about coaches there.

    Therefore, Vince actually meant MacT.

    I don’t disagree. But I think it could also apply to Katz, who took over this organization and left the status quo in charge (even promoting Lowe). I also see it applying to Lowe, who took bad situations (Comrie, Pronger) and made them worse.

    But of course it also applies to MacTavish.

  30. Phil says:

    They’re playing Team America on Teletoon right now.

    So the night isn’t a total write-off.

  31. Garnet says:

    Okay, so Hunter’s analogies are a bit overblown. Does anyone doubt that if the team ever threatened to leave, they’d be in a very, very weak bargaining position? Given that, aren’t Edmontonians smart to play hardball where arena talks are concerned?

  32. Phil says:

    Okay, so Hunter’s analogies are a bit overblown.

    You’re kidding, right?

  33. PDO says:

    We’re gonna need a montage.

    ..

    MONTAGE!

  34. Satisfied_to_Ignore says:

    the oilers have made fools of themselves as an organization tonight, for once on a night when the team looked good. They deserved a win tonight, they had chances, took shots and fell short. I agree with bookie, i would be very happy to see the game that the oilers played to night more often. i even saw penner hustle, hit, battle and get involved in a scrum!

    this is katz’s first shot at being an owner, and his employees were his idols. cut him some slack. he is a business man and a fan of the oilers and he really wants to make them a winner. give him time to come to his senses.

    4 to go, hopefully all as entertaining as tonight, after that, i hear that the eskies are going to be pretty good this year!

  35. Dennis says:

    Just to talk about hockey for a second, the Oilers worked their balls off in the third period and I was proud of them for it.

    The Sharks are missing some of their grind and grit and their thinned out because of it but that’s still a damn fine team and on other nights the Oilers will win.

    But Edm still only had three or four scoring chances in the third and their PK still managed to fuck them so it’s not like we were Ana last Fri night and Nabakov was Roli, either.

    This effort only looked superlative when placed alongside previous shitty outings vs Minny and then Ana.

  36. PDO says:

    Dennis:

    Remember how in 06-07, Horcoff hit Lupul in the ass at the start of the season and it was a sign of things to come?

    Well I’d say Staios beating Nabakov and hitting Sully tonight pretty much summed up the Oiler season.

  37. Asiaoil says:

    Sure bring back MacT and his flunkies for another go round – why not – he’s been so successful. Probably the guy I’m most disappointed in is Katz – good god man you own the team – and your buddies are destroying it. It’s profoundly funny to hear these guys compare themselves to DET when in reality they are the Wirtz-era Blackhawks. I’ll be back when these clowns are gone – and if that takes 10 years so be it – but for now aloha my friends.

  38. Garnet says:

    Asia, if you (and guys like you) are truly bailing, that’s one thing. But if Oilers fandom sticks by, through bad teams and mediocre teams, then the Oilers are the poor man’s Leafs. Revolting, no?

  39. hunter1909 says:

    What the problem seems to be, isn’t that MacT can’t coach this style of hockey team, and anyone with a shred of hockey brain can see this.

    The problem is, that Lowe, and all the other clowns who’ve managed to put their kids through swank private schools at the innocent fans expense are content to let MacT continue to let the Oilers be the laughing stock franchise that sadly they are.

    It’s like what Sam Goldwyn once said about Hollywood: “It’s not a business, it’s a racket”.

  40. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Garnet said…
    Asia, if you (and guys like you) are truly bailing, that’s one thing. But if Oilers fandom sticks by, through bad teams and mediocre teams, then the Oilers are the poor man’s Leafs. Revolting, no?

    Aren’t they already?

  41. rickibear says:

    4 to go, hopefully all as entertaining as tonight, after that, i hear that the eskies are going to be pretty good this year!

    “TFC, TFC, GOOOOOOOAL”

    “GOOOOOOOOOOO Riders”

    “Uhm hand me the blue tackle box.”

    “Grandpa got you this ball from the Arizona league.”

    “Yes that is your own junior golf set.”

    “the Blue or Red soccer ball.”

    “it is called a webb ellis ball”

    Someone stated at the start of following the blogging career. Don’t let your child have to ask to spend time with you.

    The season starts early.

    As someone

  42. hunter1909 says:

    “My country right or wrong” American Vietnam war era bumper sticker for those who don’t really mind Mai Lai style massacres.

    “If you don’t want to support this edition of the Oilers, you’re not a true fan so piss off” MacT era bumper sticker for those who don’t really mind perpetually mediocre hockey teams.

    One wonders what Vice Lombardi would make of all this. I think Vice would really be pissed, but, by definition I’m not really a true fan anymore.

  43. Bruce says:

    I’m so ronery
    So ronery
    So ronery and sadry arone

    There’s no one
    Just me onry
    Sitting on my rittle throne

    I work rearry hard and make up great prans
    But nobody ristens, no one understands
    Seems like no one takes me serirousry

    And so I’m ronery
    A rittle ronery
    Poor rittle me

  44. Bruce says:

    ^^^^^
    |||||

    Darryr’s Rament

  45. danny says:

    from Vince Lombardi quotes, to Team America World Police quotes.

    Good job guys.

    Dennis you hit the nail on the head, we can be happy about the oils performance tonight, but largely attributable to how how poor they have consistently been throughout the season.

  46. Icecastles says:

    Didn’t watch the game (homework commitments, would have otherwise). I wasn’t going to comment on the coaching soap opera, but there are three things I want to say:

    1 – It seems to have devolved to the point where everything intelligent has been said and rehashed, and the unintelligent and belligerent comments are getting louder and more frequent. I can understand the overwhelming frustration and the sense that the management/ownership needs a very strong message (subtlety doesn’t work on these guys) that they are starting (as the pundits would say) to alienate the base. And alienating the base is really, really bad. Even Sarah Palin managed to hold on to (most of) the base.

    In this case, unlike politics, I think it’s possible to alienate the base while hanging on to casual fans who like the game and have favourite players but don’t really care about the politics or follow the press conferences or analyze the game.

    Nevertheless, I, like a number of people on this blog, am starting to get tired of hearing the same angry unhelpful lines (Lowe is a joke. MacT is a has bee n who should be run out of town) over and over. Especially now that they’re infiltrating LT – a blog I gravitated to because of the intellect, insight and level-headedness of the regular contributors here. The head honchos need to know that their inaction is starting to loose support, which means that they are loosing money (or at least making less than they otherwise would, especially on secondary purchases like merchandise and souvenirs (tickets being primary purchases). But belligerence is rarely listened to or even acknowledged. It makes us sound like grumpy fans who will never be happy and will always bitch about something, and why try to please someone who will never be pleased?

    2 – Don’t get too worked up about Katz’ text message or Lowe’s press conference. The text was sent in the heat of the moment, and Lowe was doing sudden and unexpected spin control – not his strong suit. I am sure that both men are lying in bed right now thinking to themselves “What the hell was that? How did it happen? What did I say?”

    I wouldn’t read ANYTHING into the comments by either man tonight.

    Things will be looked at in a completely different light once the season is over and regardless of what the change is, it is clear that something will change. Whether that be the coach or some of the team make-up, there will be change. But until the season is OFFICIALLY over, it’s all purely academic.

    3 – I saved my main point for last. And now I completely forget what it was. I hate end of semester. Goodnight everyone. Stay positive – this drama hasn’t played itself out yet and really, at least we’re getting something to talk about and get worked up over. The season may be mediocre and disappointing, but watching people and relationships implode is always a good (though saddening) show. :)

  47. Icecastles says:

    Wow that was badly-written and rambling. They really need to move university to the off-season when people can concentrate.

  48. Rod says:

    Icecastles said…
    2 – Don’t get too worked up about Katz’ text message or Lowe’s press conference. The text was sent in the heat of the moment, and Lowe was doing sudden and unexpected spin control – not his strong suit. I am sure that both men are lying in bed right now thinking to themselves “What the hell was that? How did it happen? What did I say?”

    I wouldn’t read ANYTHING into the comments by either man tonight.
    —-
    Agreed. The post-game press conference non-event amounted to nothing more than trying to put context around the Katz text. That it was made just as you described–in the heat of the moment.

    Course that doesn’t stop one T Jones from getting in a lather about the pre and post-game events. In his anti-Katz biased opinion, those events prove Katz is treating the team as a toy, and that the hockey people don’t have control of the hockey side of things. Whatever Jones. That’s quite a skill he’s got reading tea leaves from a five word text message. At least wait until the post-season review before jumping to conclusions.

    Maybe Jones is just ticked because Katz didn’t call or text his number.

  49. hunter1909 says:

    I’m so glad I spent enough time in the UK to understand what true cynicism means.

    When people are lied to and messed around with endlessly, it’s actually quite normal for them to go beserk. One way to do this, is to laugh.

    Oilers management aren’t the Maple Leafs. They’re not important enough to be that. They’re more like Newcastle of the English Premier League. Small market, hysterically passionate fanbase, and corrupt management/owners who basically don’t give a flying toss what anyone else thinks.

    Oh yeah, and a totally mediocre team, that relies on old boys for managers, and signing washed up “stars” to give themselves the occasional buzz over.

  50. Schitzo says:

    Hey PDO, did you ever see that comment I dug up on constructive dismissal?

  51. pboy says:

    Look like everyone is taking a breather after last night. That seems like a good idea to me.

    You have to think that both Katz and Lowe are re-thinking the bizarre way they went about their business yesterday. They need to ask themselves, would you rather have a rabid fanbase who cares a little too much but have supported the team through the good and the bad or would you prefer to have fans who start talking with their pocketbooks and stop filling the building? Katz is certainly the owner of the team but until he stops charging for tickets and let’s the fans in to watch the games for free, the people who spend their own money get to have an opinion whether the owner or the management like it or not.

  52. DBO says:

    wow. that’s all i can say. I miss the game, the presser and i get my recap from this blog. spent an hour going through the whole thing. So from the “outside looking in” position let me sum up what has happened on this blog the past 13 hours.
    1. Stauffer answers a Katz text about not mentioning MacT in the pre game. Sending everyone nuts about it.
    2. good game, good effort. But our season basically over. Let the fun begin!

    3. The blog heads into the Kubler ross 5 stages of grief = Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and finaly Acceptance.

    - Denial : a few wayward minds try to figure out how we can still make the playoffs.

    - Anger : our anger boils over at MacT and the management, even heading to katz (who we almost to a man were ecstatic about 8 months ago). We want blood, we make ugly comments, we basically turn into Calgary people.

    - Bargaining: we make comments about how as long as they get rid of macT we’ll keep out season tickets. Just make a trade, put this guy at 3C and it’ll all be ok.

    - Depression: A few beers later (and judging by the comment thread last night this hit around 10:45 pm) we are sad. Sad for MacT. Sad for the fans. Sad for ourselves. i think someone even had a poem about lament.

    - Acceptance: we wake up this morning accepting that we are once again out of the playoffs. That there should be changes, but accepting that we won’t know about them until july. And we go about our day, happy it’s Friday, and maybe, just maybe, excited about just could be next year.

    go Columbus!

  53. Lord Bob says:

    Did hunter really bust out the “it’s like communism here” argument?

    You know, I always thought Mike Comrie would like posting blog comments but I wouldn’t have picked Lowetide as his sort of place.

  54. Phil says:

    Icecastles said: I am sure that both men are lying in bed right now thinking to themselves “What the hell was that? How did it happen? What did I say?”

    That is such a horrible visual to start the day.

    You are right, though. A text message that simply says the coach isn’t going anywhere is pretty vague and open ended. Lowe had to attempt to put some context to it, without contradicting his boss, and without promising people that MacT will coach the Oilers until he dies. No matter what he said, it was a going to be a train wreck.

  55. Scott says:

    I for one am still in the hopeful stage (or denial as it was called earlier). If the Oilers do 4-0 they’re in if St.Louis goes 2-2, Nashville goes 2-2-1 and Minnesota is 3-1-1 or worse. Goilers!

  56. DBO says:

    On a totally different note, the Bruins resign Thomas to a 3 yr, 5.2 mill per year deal. A lot of money, but deserved based on the past 2 years. The bruins now sit at $48 mill for 14 players next year, and still have to sign Kessel and Krecji. Ripe for an offer sheet or a deal. Give them the moon for Lucic and Bergeron. Take bergeron’s big salary and Lucic is the prize. Send them, Cogliano and a 1st round pick! Looking for something positive to think about for next year!

  57. hunter1909 says:

    LordBob: For someone with such a lofty name as you sport, sir, lol, nevermind.

    I love this team. I always loved teams that are either terrible or elite, until I discovered the Oilers.

    Now I get to comment on the Cleveland Indians of hockey.

    Over to you, Lowetide.

  58. Traktor says:

    DBO: If you want Lucic then you better be willing to part with 83.

    There’s not a chance in hell Lucic gets traded.

  59. Schitzo says:

    DBO: If you want Lucic then you better be willing to part with 83.

    I’d give that some thought. If Hemmer is always banged up at age 26, I don’t see how he’s going to get more durable.

  60. Lord Bob says:

    hunter: that was basically meant to be a joke, not a criticism. You’ll know when I’m criticising you; I’ll swear more.

  61. hunter1909 says:

    Lord Bob: If only you knew how much reverence I hold anyone with a title, you would never so much as consider schooling me, as you just have.

    *grovels in the dirt*

  62. hunter1909 says:

    OIlers don’t need to draft Lucic type players. We can just send out offer sheets, because Kevin Lowe says drafting is a waste of time.

    I’m sure glad the Oilers are run by professionals.

  63. Dennis says:

    I could be wrong about this but I don’t think the Oilers give Fuck One about what the fans thing as long as they’re paying.

    BTW, given the choice of words Lowe used last night – and given the crazy pics that Katz takes – I have a new nickname for our owner:

    The Nutty Suppressor.

  64. Icecastles says:

    Schitzo said… If Hemmer is always banged up at age 26, I don’t see how he’s going to get more durable.

    That’s a hell of a good point and something I’ve been thinking about. Part of his great playmaking ability comes from the fact that he is willing to go to tough areas and absorb hits to finish a play. But that’s a potential recipe for disaster if it means he is dealing with concussions, wrist injuries and gawd knows what else every year. And he’s not a huge fellow. A guy like that runs a real risk of wearing down before his time and becoming more, not less streaky/inconsistent as the concussions rack up.

    He’s a great player for sure, but like I said a couple weeks ago, he’s been an NHLer for six years now and still hasn’t even managed to be a point-per-game player. His potential is extraordinary. He has great hands. He is the best forward we have right now. But I just don’t see one single metric by which he could be considered anything close to a superstar or, as the years and injuries begin to mount, even a potential superstar. He doesn’t have much defensive skill, he doesn’t strike me as much of a leader in the locker room, and he’s notoriously difficult to be linemates with.

    Awesome as he is, hanging on to him at all costs as if he’s going to evolve into Ovechkin or Malkin (who, funnily enough, have been in the league half as long) is starting to feel like the sacred cow that a lot of people refuse to consider out of pure principle. Which is never rational or smart, no matter who you are talking about.

  65. doritogrande says:

    Off-topic:

    I know we all hate the Canucks, but this team is seriously a lightning rod for hardship. Taylor Pyatt lost his fiancee today to a car accident while on holidays in Jamaica.

    http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=273638

  66. Icecastles says:

    Jesus, you’re not kidding about the lightning rod, dorito. that’s really really sad. :( There are some things you just don’t wish on anybody.

  67. doritogrande says:

    Awesome as he is, hanging on to him at all costs as if he’s going to evolve into Ovechkin or Malkin (who, funnily enough, have been in the league half as long) is starting to feel like the sacred cow that a lot of people refuse to consider out of pure principle. Which is never rational or smart, no matter who you are talking about.

    I can see your logic behind these statements. And there are players in the league I’d consider swapping him straight up for. If Philly, up against cap issues, offered us Jeff Carter straight up for Hemsky, I think you have to listen to that offer.

  68. geowal says:

    If you lose, you’re out of the family.

  69. Icecastles says:

    Dorito (Or Coach or HBomb or LT or Dennis or LordBob or mc79 or Bookie or PJO or whomever): How much would you be willing to give up for a superstar goalie? I’m thinking someone with a proven track record (not a potential flash-in-the-pan sophmore who is almost guaranteed to be overpaid and potentially fall flat on his face in year two) and Vezina-worthy?

    Because a goalie, needless to say, can hide a LOT of flaws on a team and give a hell of a buffer for a group trying to find their identity. And they don’t come cheap (or often). In the next year or two, I think solving that dilemna is going to be vastly more important than finding a Legitimate First Line Centre(tm).

  70. PDO says:

    Hey PDO, did you ever see that comment I dug up on constructive dismissal?

    Just found it. I’ll give it a shot, thanks a lot!

  71. doritogrande says:

    How much would you be willing to give up for a superstar goalie? I’m thinking someone with a proven track record

    Rare commodity in today’s game, that’s for sure. There’s also what I believe to be three types of these.

    1) Superstar goalies in their prime
    2) Star goalies a year away from superstar status
    3) Superstar goalies winding towards the end of their superstar status.

    If you’re looking for #1 (Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist), we can’t afford it. The asking price starts at Hemsky, and continues adding from there.

    #2 is the choice I’d take from. That list includes Lethonen, Fleury, Backstrom as examples. I’d definitely give up a two draft picks including a first rounder and a solid prospect (Ex: Petry, Eberle) to get one of them.

    #3 would be had for cheaper than #2, but you have to wonder about the durability of these types. I’m including the likes of Kiprusoff, Turco, Vokoun. I’d safely give up a first and a decent prospect (Chorney, Trukhno) for them.

    Of course, if they wanted roster players, Penner and Nilsson make bargaining a little easier.

  72. Coach pb9617 says:

    How much would you be willing to give up for a superstar goalie? I’m thinking someone with a proven track record (not a potential flash-in-the-pan sophmore who is almost guaranteed to be overpaid and potentially fall flat on his face in year two) and Vezina-worthy?

    At least your first born + Moreau.

  73. Schitzo says:

    Just found it. I’ll give it a shot, thanks a lot!

    From what I’ve been reading, courts have held that change in pay structure (i.e. losing ability to earn commission) could count. Reducing hours could potentially count. Changing locations almost certainly applies.

    You have three major obstacles to overcome:

    1) Did you have “reasonable notice” of the changes coming? One case said reasonable would have been 9 months, but I have to imagine that for part time work it’s lower than that.

    2) How long (you might have mentioned this) has the reduced hours thing been going on? If you just suck it up and work it for 6 months, that’s pretty much implied agreement to accept the changes

    3) How far are you willing to go on principle to recover a couple of hundred dollars?

    If you’re willing to sink the time into it, small claims is always a possibility. If nothing else, it shows you’re serious and might inspire your employer to just pay you out to have you go away.

  74. PDO says:

    Absolutely nothing in writing. I worked last weekend, was told a bunch of “maybe’s” verbally, and was informed of the new arrangement last night. Would describe it best as a poorly kept secret.

  75. Phil says:

    DBO: If you want Lucic then you better be willing to part with 83.

    I’d give that some thought. If Hemmer is always banged up at age 26, I don’t see how he’s going to get more durable.

    I third this motion.

    Awesome as he is, hanging on to him at all costs as if he’s going to evolve into Ovechkin or Malkin (who, funnily enough, have been in the league half as long) is starting to feel like the sacred cow that a lot of people refuse to consider out of pure principle.

    I was beating this drum earlier in the year. I will say this: At his cap hit, he’s excellent value, and the lower the cap drops, the better he looks. For this reason, I like him as an Oiler.

    However, the time has come for people to realize that he just isn’t, and will never be, the superstar everyone’s projected him to be. Just flat out isn’t.

    Superstars don’t drift into and out of superstardom according to who their linemates are. Yet the golden Hemsky excuse is that they haven’t found that ‘sniper’ to play with him. Bullshit.

    If he was a superstar setup man, he’d make whoever they put with him a sniper. That’s what superstars do. If there is a special certain linemate out there that will transform Hemsky into a 100 point player, then that certain linemate is the superstar.

    Hemsky is a talent. He’s excellent at performing his talents. But when it comes to the parts of hockey that are outside his excellent stickhandling ability, he doesn’t show an ounce of interest (see his well publicized comments the other day for proof). To me, it seems that he doesn’t care if he turns it over at his own blue line, or scores – as long as he can dangle while doing it. Dangle at all costs.

    Yet, like Icecastles said, don’t mention trading him. He’s our best player!

    Well, guess what. He’s probably our most coveted player as well, in no small way because of his long term value contract. He’d fetch a ton.

    (Whew! Sorry about the rant. Just don’t care much for Hemsky.)

  76. kamus says:

    So this is what it’s come down to, hoping to trade the best forward with the best contract on the team.

    That’s going to make the Oilers a better team?

  77. George B says:

    It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That’s why they are there – to compete. To know the rules and objectives when they get in the game. The object is to win fairly, squarely, by the rules – but to win.

    -Vince Lombardi

  78. Dennis says:

    I’ll get to the goaltender question but, first off, did you see Barnes piece today? He gives it to the org and he also lets us know that Cogliano will be the next person to ask to leave Edmonton.

    As for the netminder, the obvious trade is I’d move 83 for a Luongo-in-his-prime kinda guy.

    Of course those don’t come along every day either, do they?

    And I really can’t fault the netminding this year. I think Roli would’ve been ever better if he had some rest via either garon, sabourin, Ryan Stone or the 4th round pick.

  79. Icecastles says:

    Kamus – the point is that best “forward on the team” does not equal “best forward in the league”. This year if you go by points, it doesn’t equal “one of the best 50 forwards in the league.”

    So he’s our best player. Does that mean we don’t want anyone who is better than Hemsky to play, because then he won’t be our best player anymore??? If we can package him for someone better, more consistent, less injury-prone, more physical and with a better all-around game (again – he coughs up the puck and has no defensive game) then it is a no-brainer. No, we don’t trade him for Brad Winchester. No one here (well, no one worth listening to) is saying that we have to get rid of him. We’re just saying that as good a value as his contract is, he should not be considered untradeable.

    And someone as mercurial as he is and who seems so unlikely to reach his potential is under any circumstance, the wrong person to build the team around. He can be an important part of the team, but they can’t keep moving guys through looking for someone to spark Hemsky, Like Phil so excellently put it, if you find a linemate who can get Hemsky to 100 points in a season, then that linemate is the superstar.

    I like Hemsky. He’s great, his contract is great value, he has okay hair, he contributes a lot offensively and he’s a huge amount of fun to watch (which is important – this is a spectator sport after all). I would rather see him play in Edmonton than elsewhere. But I would also rather see this team find an identity, land a genuine superstar, and stop being a revolving door for really good players who come in for a season (or less), flounder, and move on. Maybe it means he stays, maybe it doesn’t. But to many doors (and minds) in this organization have been closed for too long and I think it has restricted us from a lot of creativity and possibility.

  80. quain says:

    You know, the past week or two I was hoping something would happen that got us away from the Groundhog’s Day of ‘Dustin Penner for HoF, Fire MacT, Horcoff is worse than Mike Peca’ rhythm to the daily LT thread.

    This new topic terrifies me to the point of wishing for February 2nd.

  81. Icecastles says:

    My bad – Hemsky is indeed in the top 50 by points. 45th in the league for points, 78th for goals. 33rd for assists. Still, it would be hard to make a case that you can’t do better than the 45th highest point leader. I know they aren’t easily available, but by my complicated algebraic mathitude, I estimate that there are 44 players in the league who scored more points this year. :D

    I know there are more factors to a player’s value than points, but for Hemmer, none of those other factors make him look very good.

  82. godot10 says:

    MacT doesn’t coach offense, which is why Hemsky has not be “cured” of his flaws offensively.

    MacT made Hemsky a very good player because he taught him to be a decent player defensively, but he hasn’t done anything to correct Hemsky’s offensive flaws, and to optimize his offensive play.

    Hemsky could benefit from more structure to his offensive game. He is allowed to freelance all the time. He is a puck hog. And he is a perfectionist. If it isn’t a highlight reel wothy play, he won’t make it. Gretzky, liked pretty plays, but he wasn
    t a perfectionist. He was greedy for points. Hemsky isn’t greedy for points. If it isn’t a highlight reel play, he doesn’t want a point. MacT hasn’t coached him out of this.

    That said. I like Hemsky a lot. I just wish we had a coach who would coach him offensively, and not just defensively. A great coach would have turned him into Lafleur-lite. MacT has left a lot of Hemsky’s potential on the table.

  83. Icecastles says:

    Godot -I like those points, they make a lot of sense. If MacT does go over the sumer and they look outside for an offense-minded coach, it would be nice to see guys like Hemsky really come into their own. I suppose a more extreme example could be Gaborick playing and becoming increasingly frustrated under the much more oppressive and stifling style of Jaques Lemaire.

    And nothing would please me more than to see a coaching philosophy next season that is geared towards the guys in the room and really capitalizes on their strengths. I think it would turn a guy like Cogliano or even Nilsson into major factors too.

  84. HBomb says:

    I’ll get to the goaltender question but, first off, did you see Barnes piece today? He gives it to the org and he also lets us know that Cogliano will be the next person to ask to leave Edmonton.

    Dennis: I read the article, but where’s the Cogliano part?

  85. Coach pb9617 says:

    Superstars don’t drift into and out of superstardom according to who their linemates are. Yet the golden Hemsky excuse is that they haven’t found that ‘sniper’ to play with him. Bullshit.

    They found a left wing to play with him. He scores at a 96 point pace with that left wing.

    He is a legit superstar with that left wing.

  86. Nennog says:

    A few random things:

    !) Horcoff is likely now to win more faceoffs this season than Rod Brind’Amour or anyone else. Pretty impressive.

    2) There is something appealing about the Blue Jackets. Maybe’s it’s all the area connections, from Howson to Hitchcock and on down through Peca, Raffi and Chimera, but I do like how they’ve finally established some identity there.

    3) I sure hope the Ducks don’t make it.

  87. pboy says:

    But he’s so fat!!!!

  88. bookie says:

    And Columbus is likely not a team killer that drives players out of town.

    Looks like we will have to start buying players from the KHL to get them to come play here.

  89. Coach pb9617 says:

    My bad – Hemsky is indeed in the top 50 by points. 45th in the league for points, 78th for goals. 33rd for assists. Still, it would be hard to make a case that you can’t do better than the 45th highest point leader.

    Out of curiousity, how many times has MacTavish had a forward finish higher than 45th?

  90. Icecastles says:

    Coach – MacT has never had a forward finish that high. But some of them might have done it in spite of him. ;)

    Seriously though, I’m running through the list and looking for high point tallies among forwards, and wow! There are very very few!

  91. Coach pb9617 says:

    Seriously though, I’m running through the list and looking for high point tallies among forwards, and wow! There are very very few!

    I’m shocked :)

  92. Icecastles says:

    I’m shocked :)

    Really – given that talent that has come through here, these numbers are an absolute indictment of the system here. Just embarrassing compared to most teams, even a few permanent basement teams.

    Also shocking – Jason Strudwick as a nominee for the Masterton Trophy. Does this mean we can officially think of him as “special” now? because I have to say, I’ve been wondering.

  93. quain says:

    2002-03: Smyth (45th)
    2003-04: Smyth (36th)
    2005-06: Hemsky (33rd)
    2005-06: Horcoff (44th)
    2007-08: Hemsky (33rd)

  94. Schitzo says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Hemsky is an incredibly valuable piece. I just wonder what his value will be if this organization pisses away the last 3 years of his deal. If Hemsky++ gets you Tavares, do you do it?

    Last thing we want is a Gaborik or Havlat type of problem (paid at market value, plays too little).

  95. quain says:

    He did, I thought he started in 01-02, but I just checked.

    2000-01: Weight (8th)

    My numbers are screwed a bit, I wasn’t including defensemen for the first two seasons so knock Smyth up a few notches.

  96. kamus says:

    Why do people believe that one star player can make a differnce. Hockey is a team game where even the best individuals have a small impact on the results.

    Why are other teams with “superstars” not winning?

    Why does TB suck?
    Atlanta?
    Ottawa has 3 “superstars”
    Pittsburgh struggled with two of the best players in the league

    I’m afraid Lowe has the same mentality. Instead of building a complete team he’s busy dreaming about Hossas or Jagrs.

    Getting back to Hemsky, he makes 4 mill and scores close to a point a game, and he’s the problem?? I just don’t see it.

  97. Jonathan Willis says:

    Jason Gregor just said that Kevin Prendergast may be on the outs with the organization.

    Big, if true.

  98. quain says:

    Really – given that talent that has come through here, these numbers are an absolute indictment of the system here. Just embarrassing compared to most teams, even a few permanent basement teams.

    I’m curious, what talent are you talking about? Hemsky is a stud, obviously, but who else has there been? Smyth is a star, but he’s not really a huge points guy. Lupul/Sykora aren’t doing it despite playing on teams that play wildly open ended hockey.

    Given the players we’re toting, who should be putting up 65+ points but isn’t? Well, sans Horcoff. I’m not even being snotty, I started following hockey after the lockout so I missed four years of ineptitude. What players has MacT buried?

  99. Dennis says:

    I thought something was wrong with KP when he called Omark “Thoresen with more skill.”

    That’s pretty dialed down for the guy with the blonde moustache.

    Usually, he’d say something like, “Omark might score 50 goals and he’s also got a 10 inch….”

  100. Schitzo says:

    Getting back to Hemsky, he makes 4 mill and scores close to a point a game, and he’s the problem?? I just don’t see it.

    I can’t speak for everyone else, but my own position isn’t that he’s the problem. My position is that unless this organization has a short-term plan, we’re wasting his greatest attribute (bang for the buck).

    If it’s going to be three or four years before this organization gets its head out of its ass, then why not move him? He won’t be outperforming his next contract, I’d bet my house on that one.

  101. Schitzo says:

    And please note that I’d much rather prefer a solution that doesn’t take 5 years. I just don’t know where they even start.

  102. quain says:

    If it’s going to be three or four years before this organization gets its head out of its ass, then why not move him? He won’t be outperforming his next contract, I’d bet my house on that one.

    Management has a disconnect with reality.

    Given some of their moves (refusal to bring Reasoner back, trading Torres, lot of youth where you could get cheap, better replacements) you think they’re calling it a development season. Then you look at some of the other moves (sign Souray, trade for Vish, Kotalik) and you figure we’re looking at a go for it soon mentality.

    It’s like they actively want to finish 7th-10th every year.

  103. kamus says:

    Schitzo, if you trade Hemsky that’s exactly what’s going to happen, another five year plan, because the return will be prospects and picks.

    I think everyone is tired of hearing crap like “the best young team in hockey” and “potential”
    I know I am.

  104. Schitzo says:

    Kamus: I know that it’s somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    My concern is that we keep Hemsky despite having zero plan at all, keep doing the 9th place dance every year, and then being faced with the choice of paying him $7 million per year or letting him walk.

    I’m tired of the constant rebuilding too, but wasting our most valuable asset just to prove the point that we haven’t thrown in the towel isn’t ideal either.

  105. quain says:

    If we traded Hemsky we’d probably get back Doug Weight, a 30 point AHL prospect, two first round picks, and a seventh round pick.

    Or, for an even more hilarious outcome, we’d get Hejda, Torres, a first, and a third.

    And then I would probably spend my days trying to drop a bowling ball on Lowe’s head. Oh, I’m sorry, Tamb’s. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

  106. Schitzo says:

    Lord, please send me a sign that there is a plan. Any plan.

  107. oilerdago says:

    The only sign I see now is a team that has completely quit on itself and the team.

    From the comments today by Cogs, to Souray’s last night and Hemsky’s a few weeks back this puts the collapse in stretch in a little better light.

    Sad indeed.

    Bringing one of the old boys club re-treads back is not going to do with this locker room next year.

  108. oilerdago says:

    Sorry, that last comment meant to say a group that’s quit on itself and the coach.

  109. Bob Arctor says:

    Spector isn’t a fan of Katz.

  110. Dennis says:

    katz and Horc worked out 10′s contract by themselves?

    That’s gonna look Really good on Tambellini.

  111. godot10 says:

    //If it’s going to be three or four years before this organization gets its head out of its ass, then why not move him? He won’t be outperforming his next contract, I’d bet my house on that one.//

    Not true. This team, even with all its flaws, would be a slam dunk playoff team if it could kill a penalty.

    Get rid of MacT and Moreau. Get a new “professional” coach who has paid their dues (i.e. NOT Bucky) who can fix the special teams. Make Horc (or Souray) captain. Add a physical forward and a good defensive centre. The defense is fine. Re-sign Roli for a year, or come up with a long term solution, and this is a playoff team.

    One could do more of course.

    MacT chose a bad year to make a ton of bad decisions. Moreau has declined too far too fast to be the leader of this team, and he is not good enough to play on the third line anymore.

  112. quain says:

    If a four-year contract extension that averages $6.5 million for Shawn Horcoff — that’s right, Shawn Horcoff — sounds like something cooked up between a player and an owner who also spend time together away from the rink, that’s mighty logical.

    I’m curious, should I bother reading the rest of the article after he completely botches the contract that Horcoff signed? I mean, if you miss the contract’s value by $1M/year are you really writing a well-researched article?

  113. quain says:

    Oh, I see what he did now! He went to nhlnumbers.com and didn’t blow out the full years!

    Now I feel better about the article.

  114. Schitzo says:

    The fact that anyone still uses nhlnumbers makes me sad.

  115. relic says:

    JW, are you thinking MacT will slide into Prendergasts’ position?

  116. George B says:

    Jonathan Willis said…

    Jason Gregor just said that Kevin Prendergast may be on the outs with the organization.

    Big, if true.
    Sounds like the start of finger pointing. Who really is the fall guy here?

    A)Is it MacT’s coaching?
    B)The team Lowe gave him?
    C)KP and his staff’s evaluation and selection of players?

    Personally, I would say that in order of blame A, C, B.

    Of all the people, I don’t mind the job that Lowe has done. His moves are generally above the curve.

  117. HBomb says:

    That Spector article is frigging trash.

    Doesn’t get the Horcoff cap hit right, references the 7 million number (which is completely irrelevant), and then makes the statement that Horcoff and Penner’s contract’s are two of the worst 10 contracts in the NHL.

    Based on what list, exactly?

    Someone needs to e-mail him Coach’s work on the production rates when Penner/Horcoff/Hemsky are playing as a unit and show him that this team has a pretty damn good first line combination that the coach hasn’t played together at even strenght on a regular basis since, what, early February? Or was it before then even?

  118. kamus says:

    That Spector article is something else.
    When you bring out an Oakland Raiders reference you’re hitting low.

  119. Smytty777 says:

    HBomb: I’m beginning to think Spector has an axe to grind against the Oilers. That’s two complete garbage pieces of writing. He had a piece on Dustin Penner earlier that was laughable. Spector, your a reporter for god sakes, take five minutes to your check facts.

  120. HBomb says:

    Smytty777: Lots of shit journalism around town this week.

    Spector’s article was bad, but not in the league of some of thegarbage coming from that fat hack Terry Jones (the kids are the problem, but veterans like Moreau have no faults whatsoever, yadda yadda yadda).

    Criticism is a good thing, but these guys don’t even check their fucking facts. It’s forcused on the wrong targets because of that lack of fact-checking.

  121. mc79hockey says:

    The fact that anyone still uses nhlnumbers makes me sad.

    Why? What’s wrong with it?

  122. Tweezer So Cold says:

    Great thread, commenters.

    I enjoyed last night’s game, and learned quite a bit about various players’ level of comfort with losing from this thread.

    Vice Lombardi – To be a winner, you have to learn how to lose.

    The Oil lost well last night.

  123. pboy says:

    I assume there will be a press conference with theCAPTAINethanmoreau denying that there are any problems within the locker room and if there were problems they are being caused by some of the younger guys, the kinda guys who can’t even score on the powerplay and who are ruining the penalty kill because they WON’T SCORE ON THE POWER PLAY!!!!

  124. HBomb says:

    Another article for consideration, this one from Peter Adler at Cult of Hockey

    Between that article and what I’ve heard on the streets, the dressing room sounds like a total mess right now.

  125. Coach pb9617 says:

    show him that this team has a pretty damn good first line combination that the coach hasn’t played together at even strenght on a regular basis since, what, early February? Or was it before then even?

    Rickibear likely has the updated numbers, but I believe that the real first line has played less than 25 games together this year, and the only extended stretch from from @ Columbus to the Chicago blowout – 10 games. That line went nuts.

    That line performs at an absurdly high rate compared to any Oilers line since…1995?

  126. bookie says:

    Hey, what dressing room is not a mess after a string of losses. I think a lot of Oiler fans prefer soap opera to sports cause they are seeing a lot of drama where there likely is none.

    Probably the only real drama is that this is a crappy city to play in cause you cant go out for a cup of Tim Hortons coffee without some redneck bozo telling you how much your coach sucks or how Penner is lazy…

  127. bookie says:

    I should clarify that by saying that I think its fair to talk about dressing room stress and coaching decisions, but sometimes the blogosphere gets to be a little bit too much like an afternoon gossip session held by a bunch of old ladies…

  128. HBomb says:

    bookie: My genuine fear is that if there’s a rift, management will for some explicable reason side with replaceable, overpaid parts like Moreau and Staios over guys like Hemsky.

    The thought is vomit-inducing.

  129. bookie says:

    HBomb – I agree that if there is a major rift we should be concerned and my comments above were just a little too critical, but I do get tired of the constant stream of hyperbole gossip in this city. Players can’t leave town unless they have an affair with somebody’s wife first or some other stupid story that the public invents.

    Good players get run out of town because the mob mentality of this city decides to single them out. I am begining to think that the real problem with this team is that we are behind the 8-ball because of the City we live in (not the weather or the lack of beaches, but because of the 6th man).

    So, when I see people attacking Katz, MacT, Lowe, and the Players at a fairly personal level (with words like selfish) I see the public as the problem, not the team.

    Someone made a good point up above, this team was a good penalty killing unit away from being in the top 1/3rd of the league. That combined with a few better coaching decisions would do it.

    So, really is all of the drama needed?

  130. DBO says:

    Moreau on team 1260 was interesting. Talked about the different compete attitude of young guys, that they have different attitudes toward teh game and training, and that they don’t know their place as well as the other guys. Moreau mentioned that last night they went back to the way they used to play, that their compete level was raised, they forchecked harder and their defenseman pinched. But he also said tehy can’t play that way all year for certain reasons.

    man, i may reading into this too much, but the where there’s smoke there’s fire coems to mind. Crazy split in the locker room between the lunch pail older guys and the young skilled guys. management needs to make a decision on the type of team we are, and move the other guys out.

  131. Smytty777 says:

    Bookie: I agree on the afternoon gossip session comment. Today is a prime example, if you check out various other forums and boards there is a lot of irrational, bordering on insane, commentary right now.

    Insightful commentary from edmontonoilers.com forum “This organization lick-balls.” It is just ridiculous today.

  132. Bank Shot says:

    I am begining to think that the real problem with this team is that we are behind the 8-ball because of the City we live in (not the weather or the lack of beaches, but because of the 6th man).

    Bullshit.

    The team sucks, because management isn’t good, and the coaching can’t get them to play at a high level.

    Fans are the same in every Canadian city, and Calgary and Vancouver are haing pretty good runs despite that.

  133. Schitzo says:

    Why? What’s wrong with it?

    It’s wrong more often than I’d be comfortable with. For example, he still has the last year of Nilsson’s deal wrong.

    Irish Blues is one of the few guys over on HFboards that I would believe in any situation, and he’s the one who runs nhlscap.com

  134. digger says:

    So I guess “Private Eyes” wasn’t exactly the bridge between young and old that was hoped for? ;)

    Maybe they should’ve picked something from Slayer…

  135. Icecastles says:

    quain said…
    If we traded Hemsky we’d probably get back Doug Weight, a 30 point AHL prospect, two first round picks, and a seventh round pick.

    And that, Quain, is why you are not the GM. For crying out loud, you people seem to think we have gone from “keep Hemsky at any cost” to “get rid of Hemsky at any cost”!

    Why is there no fucking perspective left on this board!?

  136. quain says:

    Yeah, because it’s almost like my comment wasn’t a joke.

    It was hard to tell, I know.

  137. Icecastles says:

    I recognize the joke, quain. But correct me if I’m wrong: your joke was to illustrate your belief that we wouldn’t be able to trade Hemsky for better or even equivalent value? Thus my comments stand.It is true almost by definition that a trade for lesser value would be a bad move.

    If that wasn’t your point, then I can only assume you are talking only to hear yourself speak. I can recognize sarcasm just fine. But I can also recognize condescension, aggression and self-importance.

  138. Over and Out says:

    //Probably the only real drama is that this is a crappy city to play in cause you cant go out for a cup of Tim Hortons coffee without some redneck bozo telling you how much your coach sucks or how Penner is lazy…//

    That’s hilarious. I said that vary same thing about MacT to Raphael at cowboys back in 2004. I think it was 25-cent draft night. Torres was not impressed. Bishai and Hemsky bought me a beer and we talked about Bishai’s fight with Aubin (that was awesome). I’ve boiled down three possible reasons they bought me the beer. 1, they felt bad I was drinking disgusting beer out of a plastic cup. 2, they agreed with me. 3, they were keeping me from getting my ass kicked by Torres (he’s one intense looking fellow).

    Possibilities in order of likelihood 3-1-2

  139. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Icecastles, chill. Everyone is a little too uptight around here lately. Breathe.

    Quain’s joke as I took it referred to Lowe’s history of the better the talent the worse return he gets.

  140. Icecastles says:

    THC – I know,you’re right. And I usually just ignore the guy. It’s just that there are some users who seem to troll around and then pop up their heads to spew condescending and uninformed bile. I question the value of people who see to show up only to argue. And yes, I recognize the irony of discussing it in light of an argument, but I’m just really tired of the guy’s arrogance.

    Anyhow, apologies to LT and the other commenters from letting my frustration get the best of me. I really should be above letting a kid get my goat like this. From here on in, I’ll just ignore him.

  141. raventalon40 says:

    @ Hunter

    OIlers don’t need to draft Lucic type players. We can just send out offer sheets, because Kevin Lowe says drafting is a waste of time.

    Lucic was drafted with our pick. Interesting, no?

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