In the Heat of the Night

This is a scene from a terrific movie, In the Heat of the Night. Rod Steiger (“what do they call you up in Philadelphia?”) and Sidney Poitier (“they call me Mister Tibbs”) could be from different planets (watch the movie, it’s still a very good film these many years later).

Since the trade that brought Chris Pronger to Edmonton and the bookend deal that sent him away, the Oilers have been chasing superstars like a moth to a flame. So when news broke that Dany Heatley had requested a trade, Oilers fans (me included) began mulling over the trade possibilities.

Penner? He’d have to go. Cogliano? Well you have to give up something to get something. Gilbert? The Oilers do have some depth there.

The problem comes from the actual cap hit for Heatley. It’s $7.5M per year over 4 seasons (source: nhlnumbers.com). That’s Dustin Penner and Steve Staios and a little bit more. It’s a massive dollar amount and I think it might mean even fewer NHL players than they’ve been running with over the last two seasons.

Can you win anything of value with 5 players making 28.1M:

  1. Heatley 7.5M
  2. Visnovsky 5.6M
  3. Horcoff 5.5M
  4. Souray 5.4M
  5. Hemsky 4.1M

More to the point, can you win anything of value with those 5 players taking up that much of the cap? Not too many “complete” players on that list.

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197 Responses to "In the Heat of the Night"

  1. quain says:

    I think if you can run out two lines of:

    O'Sully-Horcoff-Pisani
    Heatley-Gagner-Hemsky

    You're probably doing pretty well. This team is a team full of mediocre to bad contracts, if you can move some of those, a pick, and maybe a young guy and bring back Heatley, I think you're doing alright.

    Something of the Souray + Nilsson + Cogliano variety would put you in a better position then you left the terminal. There's follow up trades to be made (Penner/Staios/Moreau for anything) to get the weak value off the books, but if you can put in mediocre dollars where you have strength and bring back mediocre dollars for the elite shooter/PP guy, you win the day.

  2. Jonathan Willis says:

    Heatley – Horcoff – Hemsky
    O'Sullivan – Gagner – Pouliot
    Moreau – Pahlsson – Pisani
    Jacques – Brodziak – Stortini

    Visnovsky – Souray
    Grebeshkov – Malik
    Tjarnqvist – Smid

    Anderson
    Roloson

    54-million or so for that roster. The tough bits are adding Pahlsson/Malhotra and finding the right, cheap veteran blueliners to round out the top-six.

  3. Jonathan Willis says:

    O'Sully-Horcoff-Pisani
    Heatley-Gagner-Hemsky
    .

    I mentioned this over at ON, but HBomb pointed out what it would do to Gagner's contract demands.

    I think Horcoff needs to be run up the middle on that line, or Gagner's going to require too much to sign.

  4. Mark-Ryan says:

    I am not a fan of purposefully building your line-up to prevent a free agent from raising his value. You build the team to perform at the highest level possible, and if that means giving Gagner world-beater wingers in the soft parade – you do it every time IMO.

    Thankfully with the Oilers, I think they'll have the ability to shed a few decent size salaries out for nothing players or prospects. Players like Ethan Moreau and Steve Staios out for Jacques and Peckham.

    That's the only thing that makes me think it would be possible to fill out the roster with a contract like Heater's coming in.

  5. Angela says:

    Heatley has 5 years left on his contract as per NHLnumbers.com

  6. Angela says:

    "I mentioned this over at ON, but HBomb pointed out what it would do to Gagner's contract demands.

    I think Horcoff needs to be run up the middle on that line, or Gagner's going to require too much to sign."

    I don't think any coach worth his salt would use that type of logic when developing line combinations. It just doesn't make sense if your looking to win games. I think you ice the lineup that gives you the best chance to win and worry about the contracts in the off season.

  7. quain says:

    There's definitely something to be said for tanking Gagner's minutes a bit to keep his contract down, so running the big gun top line is a-okay by me. But, the way Gagner has been handled, I can't imagine anyone is looking that far or intelligently ahead in this organization.

  8. Jonathan Willis says:

    The other thing is that you only get the matchups 41 games a season (less, if your coach is Pat Quinn) and I think you need to put someone responsible on the top line.

  9. Smarmy Boss says:

    You can't just tank a player to keep his value down. They might not be the smartest cats in the world but they're not morons.

    Part of the reason Heatley wants out is the supposedly the perception that the new coach lowered his minutes.

    Anyways, I have no idea what Ottawa would want. I figure Souray and Penner would be the cats to go.

  10. Gerta Rauss says:

    I've been preaching slow and steady for the new admin,even if it means another season of no playoffs.

    But man,this is tempting.

    Maybe this is the time for a major shakedown…if Heatley agrees to come here,and – wait for it – Bouwmeester is willing,well…

    Gilbert + O'sully/Cogs + 10 OV for Heatley

    Souray to San Jose for their 1st + Clowe/roster player

    San Jose 1st AND 1 forced contract(Staios/Nilsson/Moreau)to Florida for Bouwmeester(signed)

    It's still not enough $$ but I don't care.
    Talking about 1 franchise player coming here is exciting,discussing 2 franchise players,well,I'm just about peeing my pants.

  11. Coach pb9617 says:

    It can't happen without moving Souray, Nilsson and Moreau.

  12. Gerta Rauss says:

    And to the original post…running those 5 guys might not win you the whole thing,but I'd sure like to find out how far they could go.

    Pens up 2-0 with 15min left in the 3rd.

    Game 7 anyone?

  13. Deano says:

    Angela said:

    you ice the lineup that gives you the best chance to win

    How do you explain MacT's decisions this past season?

    There seems to be a deference to the Oil's management in spite of obvious irrational behavior.

    We still do not know if Pouliot can handle 3C, but we do know that Cogs and Pisani can not – facts that are of considerably less value.

    I do not see how we can fit Heatley in and be a stronger team. We have to move out too many complementary forwards.

  14. Deano says:

    re: JayBo

    To me the obvious way to fit him in is to do a sign and trade with Florida where Lubo is moved to the Panthers after JayBo signs.

    This fills the hole left by JayBo and Florida loses a couple of lesser lights instead (I'd pick Weiss and Emminger) of JayBo.

  15. Angela says:

    Deano said…
    "How do you explain MacT's decisions this past season?"

    MacT got fired because of the decisions he made last year…

    Enough said.

  16. Coach pb9617 says:

    Officially, does Scuderi get credit for three saves there?

  17. jon k says:

    I think that practically speaking you see a trade with 3 types of assets going back: future, youth, veteran.

    Ottawa's needs as described by some of their beat writers are a rounded defenseman to anchor the unit, some young scoring coming down the pipe, and some future assets.

    Considering what we have, I think the deal that makes the most sense for Edmonton to offer is Souray, Cogliano, and a 1st this year or the next. Considering the log jam of middling prospects/projects in the minors I could see us throwing in Petry, Chorney, or Omark. Omark may very well be something Ottawa is interested in as they have a penchant for European problem children, Alexei Kaigorodov being the most recent example.

    The cap space is mostly a wash and I can see a leadership type like Souray having a lot of appeal to Murray. Cogliano is a player who still has high value around the league if you believe the Edmonton media. I would send any and all of those players away for 5 years of Heatley.

    Realistically speaking there are few teams in the west that can compete with us for reasons of budget, cap space, or reasonable assets to send back. I can pretty much only see St. Louis, Calgary, Minnesota, LA, SJ, Dallas, Anaheim, or Chicago having all three of those criteria.

  18. Ribs says:

    I think Heatley is going to go for a lot less than most people would think. That's a huge contract for a complimentary type player and it's going to hurt Ottawa's leverage in a trade.

    You're right LT, the cap hit kills the deal. It's too bad. Hemmer and the Heat would be one fine combo.

  19. Jon says:

    People seem to overlook the fact that Souray has a NMC and seeing that we re a black hole to free agents, I don't forsee Tambelini screwing over the only free agent to come here. Souray is here next year or SoCal but not back East…no shot.

    I think Heatly works salary cap wise and I can actually see a very talented, not gritty, lineup.

    Heatly, Horc, Hemmer
    Sully, Gags, Cogs
    Moreau, Maholtra, Pisani
    Jaques, Brodz, Storts
    Stone, Smac

    Souray, Vis
    Grebs Zanon
    Smid, Staios
    Struds

    Halak
    Laarbera

    Total
    54.5M (we get bonus forgiveness on cogs and Gagner)

    Out Poo, Penner, Gilbert, 1st next year for Heatly
    Out Nillson, 2nd for Halak

    In Maholtra 3 years for 6 mill
    In Zanon 3 years for 5mill
    In Labarbera 2 years for 2 Mill

    I like it

  20. Satisfied_to_Ignore says:

    Souray + POS + Chorney + 2nd

    for

    Heatley + 3rd + conditional

    That frees up salary, helps Ottawa with D now and in the future and gives them an impact forward now of which we have too many of the same style. We get that sniper that the oil have been craving to play with Hemmer. If Hemmer can't reach his top potential playing with Heatley then he has been over sold.

    But as has been mentioned here already Heatley is in is in control here as his no trade clause allows him to decide if a city is an acceptable destination.

    Heatley-Horc-Hemmer
    Penner-Gags-Cogs
    Moreau-Brodz-Pisani
    JFJ-Potulny-Zorg

    Lets go Oilers!

  21. Jonathan Willis says:

    I will say this: if the Oilers are able to acquire Heatley (and Brownlee says they are interested) the team needs to slide some cheap players into the top six.

    Undoubtedly one of Cogliano, O'Sullivan or Penner will stay (in this hypothetical scenario) to play LW for Gagner's line; I'd guess O'Sullivan gets the job (assuming OTT demands Cogliano in a trade, although I'd rather keep him). But what about RW? Assuming that Nilsson's an extravagance, does Pouliot or *shudder* Schremp get a chance?

    Ok, now I'm just talking crazy.

  22. HBomb says:

    Ok, first off, no matter what road this team takes (Heatley, Bouwmeester, or "other"), Moreau and Staios and their deals MUST be moved for picks to clear off "dead money". That's obvious.

    To get Heatley? One of Visnovsky or Souray's salary will need to go the other way.

    Heatley OR Bouwmeester? Geez, I don't know. Could we get both? Brownlee thinks no, I think it's likely very difficult, but picture this….

    Visnovsky, Penner, Cogliano for Heatley

    Souray for Clowe and a pick

    Moreau and Staios for picks (Nilsson too)

    Sign Bouwmeester

    That wouldn't look too bad from where I sit in terms of cap.

    Heatley-Horcoff-Hemsky
    O'Sullivan-Gagner-Clowe
    Pisani on line 3

    Top four of Bouwmeester, Gilbert, Grebeshkov, Smid

    It would be revolutionary, so it's probably too much to ask….but Heatley and Bouwmeester would set this team up for the next five years, and potentially longer.

  23. Coach pb9617 says:

    Visnovsky, Penner, Cogliano for Heatley

    Which Ottawa can't come close to affording.

  24. Sean says:

    I think championship level teams are build from the top down. If you think Heatley is good enough to be the best player on a Stanley Cup winner (debatable), then its a move you have to attempt.

    Gilbert, Penner, Eberle and 2010 1st.

    That's probably too much money going the other way. I don't think Moreau or Nilson does much for Ottawa over Penner. Not sure what else would need to be done.

    I don't care if the Oilers PR takes a hit from trading Souray. The best thing for a teams reputation is winning and if trading Souray makes the team better that's all that should matter.

  25. Gerta Rauss says:

    I will say this: if the Oilers are able to acquire Heatley (and Brownlee says they are interested) the team needs to slide some cheap players into the top six.

    Potulny,Brule,Stone..?

    Can any of these guys hold their own defensively?

  26. HBomb says:

    Polutny, Brule and Stone would all be potential cheap bottom sixers.

    But if they're in your top six, damn – you're a lottery team.

  27. Gerta Rauss says:

    I will say this: if the Oilers are able to acquire Heatley (and Brownlee says they are interested) the team needs to slide some cheap players into the top six.

    And for that matter JW,what about Hemsky?

    A Hemsky/Heatley combo at $11.6m stacks up quite well compared to the rest of the league,and maybe puts both contracts in a different light.

  28. Lowetide says:

    I think you need more actual NHL players to make it work. Remember how many real players they had during the SCF's?

  29. Coach pb9617 says:

    I think you need more actual NHL players to make it work. Remember how many real players they had during the SCF's?

    It's not a good idea, which means the Oilers will do it.

  30. Lowetide says:

    Coach: I can't see how it makes any sense. Lowe turned back the center of the cluster enormously by trading Pronger. A trade for Heatley (which would involve some fine, cheap and young talent) turns it forward again.

    If you've just suffered through two years of growing pains, wouldn't it beehoove you to see if it was worth it?

    Smaller moves is the better plan. Solve the goalie situation, fine some grit and a 3line center with a grey hair or two.

    Shoot the moon doesn't make the kind of sense it did in summer 2005 when this team was a couple of bullets from being really good.

  31. Coach pb9617 says:

    Agreed LT.

    Anderson and Legace shouldn't cost more than 3.5 million combined.

    Sort through the forward logjam and make the trades necessary to clear cap space.

    Sign Wes Walz.

    If the opportunity arises move Souray IF you have a fallback in place.

  32. Jon says:

    Sean: I think everyone agrees with you…but we are not the GM's of the team. Tambellini has many more variables to consider then our nutty proposals. If I was in Vegas I would bet that Tambo makes sure Souray lands well: Edm or Socal, and I would be shocked otherwise.

  33. Coach pb9617 says:

    Oh god.

    They're going to trade Souray and Staois and get Cheechoo back.

    They'll sign Roloson, Strudwick and Gaborik. They'll keep Cogliano at center and thecaptainethanmoreau wherever he wants to be.

    They're going to go into next year with

    Gaborik-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Penner-Gagner-Cheechoo
    Moreau-Cogliano-Pisani
    Jacques-Brodziak-Stortini

    Grebeshkov-Vishnovsky
    Gilbert-Smid
    Peckham-Strudwick

    Roloson
    Deslauriers

    They're going to do this because they're the Oilers. It's what they do.

    Fixed the forward problem, hyuk hyuk!

    Sigh.

  34. Mark-Ryan says:

    Coach: Perhaps there's some clever inflection I'm missing here, but I struggle to find a way that doesn't look like a way to fix the forward problem.

  35. LMHF#1 says:

    LT: In response to your point about how many real players they had during the SCF; you're absolutely right.

    Which is why you have to take chances on cheap vets in the offseason.

  36. raventalon40 says:

    Visnovsky + Penner + Cogs for Heatley? I'm sorry, but if you're Ottawa, would YOU make this deal? Ottawa would probably take back equal amounts in salary and skill. The only way this deal works is if Edmonton takes some salary back instead. If I could request a player in return, it'd be Jason Smith… but Ottawa is short on reliable D-men.

    Btw, I like Visnovsky more than Souray anyway.

    Souray + O'Sullivan + Cogliano + 1st round pick for Heatley + Smith

  37. Chris says:

    In fairness Coach, you only need to make three alterations to that roster you just listed to make it look viable.

    Add a better vetran D than Strudwick, replace Deslauries with one of the UFA goalies who can be had on the cheap. Toss in an actual checking centre and move Cogliano to the wing. Hell they could go ahead and make my day by dumping Moreau and replacing him with Pahlson and playing Cogliano-Pahlson-Pisani as the checking line.

    I'd be worried about an injury to the defense core but if it stayed healthy and with Gaborik in the mix that's a big if..that's a team that could make some noise.

  38. jon k says:

    I think if we could parlay Souray into a reasonable return from SJ or LA which decreases our cap hit, and then turn around and sign Gaborik, the overall effectiveness of this team would be greatly increased.

    A cheap depth signing on D like Kalinin and I think the team would be looking quite reasonable, subject of course to whomever Tambellini sends away from the smurfs for more size upfront.

  39. Asiaoil says:

    Unless Penner is going back then the possibility of a deal is very very slim. Just is. Only other possibility I can see that does not involve Penner going to OTT is something like a Gilbert, Moreau plus ?? package but I doubt OTT wants that. In any case – cap has to flow the other way or OTT will get damn near nothing in return.

  40. hunter1909 says:

    coachpb97: Nah, that's the Lowe method of doing business – Let everyone and their dog know exactly what players you covet, ala Isbister then hand out crazy contracts to thank your mediocre veterans, oblivious to the eventual outcome.

    Tambellini keeps his mouth shut. Which is why, no matter which new players are brought in, and booted out for that matter, we're all in for a whole new take on our wonderful hockey team next year.

    So ironic that now we have an owner who could, if he liked, play New York Rangers buy-a team.

  41. uni says:

    I want no part of a Heatley trade. A 7.5 Million cap hit for 5 years with a possible decrease in the cap isn't wise. That 7.5 million can be better spent on 1 good winger in the 4-5 range and another quality player in the 2-3 range.

    For those promoting Gilbert + Cogliano + 1st for Heatley, that's giving up 2 useful and still very promising young players plus a top ten pick in a deep draft for a lot of contract in a complimentary player, granted an elite complimentary perennial 40 goal one. This sounds too much like McCauley, Boyes, 1st in 2003 for Owen Nolan in Leaf land.

    Also if anyone noticed over the last 2 seasons, Ottawa's problem is too many big contracts on the top end and not enough room left to get solid NHL players to flesh out the rest of the roster, especially on the back end. Tampa Bay has had some success with this model ala Richards, Lecavalier, and St. Louis, but after their goalie and depth suffered from the burden of those big shiny new contracts we all know how that ended…and the same is happening now in Ottawa.

  42. godot10 says:

    I am NOT a fan of Heatley. He is a narcissistic frat boy. If you think you can win with that….

    Character matters.

    That said, most people here are suggesting an overpay for a team with a "Pronger" problem. And Pronger had a beauty contract, unlike Heatley's albatross of one. Did Brian Burke overpay for Pronger?

  43. Angela says:

    uni said…

    "That 7.5 million can be better spent on 1 good winger in the 4-5 range and another quality player in the 2-3 range."

    so what your saying is you would rather have penner and staios than dany heatley?

    I'd rather have heatley being that the cap hit is the same

  44. Lowetide says:

    Apparently Bob McKenzie is reporting this morning (or it might be Ryan Rishaug) that Heatley would be willing to wave his NTC to move to Edmonton.

    McKeznie's idea of payback involves some big, big names. Including Hemsky and Gagner (but not in the same deal).

    Has anyone considered Tambellini might be worse than Lowe? Just saying.

  45. uni says:

    so what your saying is you would rather have penner and staios than dany heatley?

    I'd rather have heatley being that the cap hit is the same.

    I didn't say that, but thanks for making the inaccurate implication =). For the record both Penner at 4 million and Staios at 2.7 million are overpaid. If you're going to have to move these guys to free up cap room for Heatley I say free it up and get 2 other bodies that won't weigh you down like anchors in the summers to come when/if the cap drops and you can get some players 80 cents on the free agent dollar.

    For the cap hit I'd much rather have a Cleary type player at 3.5 million and a Kurt Sauer type for 1.5 million for a total of 5 million and 2.5 million to spare.

    Even if you had to overpay a bit to get two players of that type in free agency you're looking at 4 million for Cleary and 2 million for Sauer, still a 1.5 million savings.

    Heck, if you can shed Moreau, Staios, and Penner's contracts then why not just go after Gaborik and keep your young talent, or a Havlat and a good checking 3rd line centre etc.

    Trading Gilbert, Cogliano, Gagner, or Hemsky for cap hit killer in Heatley makes very little sense to me.

  46. Schitzo says:

    Here's something I haven't seen proposed yet – what if the Oilers took back even more salary from Ottawa?

    Something like Heatley + Fisher for Gilbert, Penner, picks/prospects. Throw in Nilsson and Moreau or waive him, whatever.

    Heatley-Gagner-Hemsky
    Cogs-Horc-O'Sullivan
    Pouliot-Fisher-Pisani
    Jacques-Brodziak-Stortini

    Vish-Grebs
    Souray-XXXX
    Smid-XXXX

    As long as you can move Staios and plug the defence for cheap, it'd work.

  47. rickibear says:

    Cap Problems??

    Staois and Moreau would be great playing assistant coaches in springfeild.

  48. dawgbone says:

    If you believe the whole aspect of willing to deal #2 if the Isles draft Hedman, there are a few interesting scenarios that can play out.

    Heatley:

    Souray, O'Sullivan

    #2:

    Gilbert, #10, Petry/Eberle (or hell both).

    That would see the Oilers shed $12.6 mil or so in Salary, then add Heatley's 7.5, putting us around $42.5 mil.

    We still need to sign a goaltender and bring in another defenceman, but if we can get harding at $2.5 mil that puts at $45 mil.

    If we can give Bouwmeester one of those deals where he's signed to 40 or so and reduce the cap hit (say $6mil/season), that puts us at $51mil. Then sign a Blair Betts type for $0.8 mil and re-sign Grebs and Smid to a combined $5 mil ($56.8mil total) giving us a lineup of:

    Healtey Horcoff Hemsky
    Penner Gagner Nilsson
    Cogs Brodziak/Betts Pisani
    Moreau Brodziak/Betts Stortini/Pouliot

    Bouwmeester Vishnovsky
    Grebeshkov Staios
    Smid Peckham

    Harding JDD

    Not sure how willing TB would be to add $4 mil in salary without giving anything back, but it's workable if we can make that sort of a trade.

    In reality though, we'd have to find a way to unload Moreau and/or Staios, but I think that might actually be harder to do.

  49. quain says:

    God. If they move Hemsky or Gagner… they need to trade Horcoff to Chicago so I can go root for my hometown team and just cut bait with this sadsack franchise.

    I wouldn't be happy about moving Cogliano and spare parts for Heatley, but I can see it being a worthwhile value. Gagner or Hemsky, though? Jesus Christ. If it's Gagner, we better be getting back some picks and dumping nothing but crap contracts. If it's Hemsky? We're officially in the wilderness.

  50. DBO says:

    LT: you watch your tongue young man! No talk of tambellini being worse then KLowe. That made me shutter.

    Speculation running rampant all over the oilosphere. I like the idea of heatley, but the deals flying around are usually a bit much. Gerta Rauss: did you steal all those ideas of your deals from my post at oilers nation? or are you just reading my mind. i posted those exact scenario's yesterday afternoon.

    A few points for people to remember before we get too excited:

    1. Souray will only move to the west coast. no chance of him moving futher away from his kids in california, so stop the idea of him going to Ottawa.
    2. Ottawa will want younger players with decent contracts since they need depth at forward. So unless we take a huge amount of salary back on top of Heatley's, there is no way they take Penner.
    3. Ottawa is coming from a position of weakness, so the deals my not need to be too much NHL players, and maybe more draft pick and prospects. remember, that we got 1 NHL player, a prospect and 3 picks. So 2 NHL players will be a lot.
    4. This deal won't happen until the draft, as well as the Lecavalier deal. So for the first time ever i will watch the draft day (and the reports the night before) with far too much anticipation.

    i love that there is no off season for Oiler fans.

  51. Forain says:

    Does Souray + get you a Heatley?

    I have to say, my heart skipped a beat when I saw the line of Heatley, Horc, and Hemsky.

  52. Bill Needle says:

    Give the Senators the same kind of deal the Oilers gave when they were forced to trade a superstar:
    Nilsson, Smid, a first, a second and a conditional first.
    It worked for Anaheim…

  53. pboy says:

    LT:

    What has Tambo done to make you think he might be worse than Lowe?

  54. Lowetide says:

    pboy: Not one thing. But then again he hasn't re-tooled the team yet and that is likely to happen this summer. Jury is out until we see what he can do (I liked the deadline moves btw).

  55. Coach pb9617 says:

    Coach: Perhaps there's some clever inflection I'm missing here, but I struggle to find a way that doesn't look like a way to fix the forward problem.

    And now look at the defense.

  56. kris says:

    Quain:

    I can see not giving up Gagner because he's 19, but why is Hemsky for Heatley such a bad deal? I see it's not a steal of a deal, but its at least a slight improvement at forward. No?

    Do you think Hemsky is worth the same as the few truly elite forwards in the NHL, e.g. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Malkin, OV, Crosby, Iginla, Getzlaf etc? Heatley isn't in that group, but Hemsky isn't either. I'd say they're both in the next tier down, with Heatley bringing more offense.

    I don't mean to sound snarky, but I really want to know whether and why people think Hemmer is better than Heatley.

  57. speeds says:

    LT: You're a true Debbie Downer, aren't you?

    Dawgbone: You went through all that work and then didn't find a spot for ~ 3.5 mil cap hit Tavares in your lineup.

    Would you be sending him to junior for a 5th year, signing him and playing him in the AHL (I believe he's AHL eligible, having completed 4 CHL seasons), or did you just forget him?

  58. HBomb says:

    Ok, looking at it logically:

    Salaries need to be roughly equal.

    Ottawa's going to want a young and cheap player.

    And the Senators need a puckmover on the back end.

    They will want a good prospect or a draft pick.

    I think that the Oilers would declare Hemsky and Gagner off-limits.

    My latest and greatest proposal:

    Visnovsky, Cogliano, and Omark for Heatley.

    Say you swing that, it's step one of a bigger plan.

    - Souray for Clowe.
    - Penner and the 10th overall to Florida for the 14th overall and Bouwmeester's rights (he immediately signs something that works out to a cap hit of 5.5-6 million over a 10-15 year term; money well spent, I say).
    - Dump Nilsson, Moreau, and Staios for picks. If that fails, bury 'em in the AHL for the next two years. Katz can afford it.

    Your new "core" going forward (cap hits in parenthesis)

    F: Hemsky (4.1), Heatley (7.5), Horcoff (5.5), Gagner (1.625), O'Sullivan (2.925), Clowe (2.5 est), Pisani (2.5, UFA in 2010)

    D: Bouwmeester (6), Gilbert (4), Grebeshkov (3.15 est), Smid (1.5 est)

    That's a total of 41.3 million for 11 players. Say 5 million combined for a 3rd line center and a goalie brings you up to 46.3 million.

    Assuming a 55 million dollar cap in 2009-10, that leaves 8.7 million for a backup goalie, 5-7D, a 3LW, and 10-14F. 10 players at an average of 870K cap hit.

    Doable? Sure. Smart? Not sure. Getting rid of some of the long-term committments and replacing them with smarter long term bets (specifically, J-Bo) would be very nice.

  59. Lowetide says:

    speeds: Maybe. I like everything Tambellini has done so far, but there appear to be a lot of balls in the air here. If he's dealing Hemsky or Gagner, the return has to be exceptional.

    One of the most valuable assets for this franchise is that Hemsky contract. Is Heatley that much more valuable (3M plus)?

    Crazy.

  60. Jonathan Willis says:

    Kris: The only way the Oilers trade for Heatley is if they think they can make the leap to contender right now. They can't make that leap if they don't have a first line RW; in other words, the trade makes no sense unless Edmonton retains Hemsky while acquiring Heatley.

    Aside from Hemsky, I also would not consider moving Gagner or the #10 OV pick.

  61. DBO says:

    LT: agree on hemsky's deal. Not many players have multiple years left at an affordable rate. Only way you deal Hemsky to Ottawa is in a deal that gives you something else.

    What about Gilbert, Hemsky and Eberle
    for
    Heatley and their 1st round pick.

    gives the Oil 2 top 10 picks, and maybe the ability to move into the top 3. you then move the 2 top 10 picks and Cogliano/Nilsson/Smid and draft Tavares/Hedman/Kane and still have the money to sign a dman.

  62. speeds says:

    I wouldn't deal Hemsky straight up for Heatley. Doesn't make sense in terms of the cap.

    It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out, I can't imagine EDM making this deal if it costs them Hemsky or Gagner, but you are right in that there isn't much track record here with Tambellini.

    I don't like the idea of dealing including 10 OV in a deal for Heatley either – a high pick like that holds some very good value in my mind. I would rather keep the pick and just spend the money you would have given Heatley on a UFA, vs trading it and other assets to land Heatley.

  63. Gerta Rauss says:

    DBO
    -no stealing,honest…I just looked at your deals and mine did not include Eberle or Penner…great minds think alike…?

    And no to Hemsky.
    Nope.
    No way.

  64. godot10 says:

    //Do you think Hemsky is worth the same as the few truly elite forwards in the NHL, e.g. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Malkin, OV, Crosby, Iginla, Getzlaf etc? Heatley isn't in that group, but Hemsky isn't either. I'd say they're both in the next tier down, with Heatley bringing more offense.//

    Hemsky $4.1 million cap hit
    Heatley $7.5 million cap hit.

    Hemsky and Heatley are both the next tier down. Based on salary, one is getting 1.5 times more value per dollar with Hemsky than with Heatley.

    The #1 priority should be JayBo.
    The #2 priority should be dealing Souray to San Jose.

  65. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Maybe this is why the talk of Lecavalier to LA has died down?

    I don't see a lot of these trade ideas as being very likely.

    Souray has a NTC and as has been mentioned wouldn't go East.

    Also, didn't Lowe say that he would honour Visnovski's NTC that he would have had with LA… Tambo may go back on that but I doubt it (especially when he is playing well and we need reliable veteran D).

    I would sure like Heatley, but would not give up much. With Hossa/Gaborik you don't give up any assets. Also, Ottawa doesn't have a lot of say with the NMC and the cap hit. They can demand all they want right now, but ala CFP, they won't be getting full value in return.

  66. quain says:

    I don't mean to sound snarky, but I really want to know whether and why people think Hemmer is better than Heatley.

    Asking that question doesn't get to the crux of the conversation. Hemsky gets paid nearly half as much as Heatley. So the real question is, at the end of the day, does Ales Hemsky provide more value per cap dollar than Dany Heatley? The answer is probably yes.

    And yeah, you can flash the 40 goals versus 22 or whatever Hemsky potted this year, and the likely bounce back near 90 points next year for Heatley… but Heatley can't score those points without loads of ice time and great players near him. He's not an elite complete player, he's a complimentary player who has a really, really good shot. There's nothing at all wrong with that, but he's making money based on having skills of being a really, really good easier minute muncher.

    If he were a UFA I would be hesitant to pay him $7.5M, but if we can trade Ottawa $7.5M worth of salary that is less valuable than Heatley, I'd be happy. Gagner and Hemsky are not less valuable than Heatley in my mind. Cogliano isn't really either, but if he's a throw-in to move Souray/Nilsson/Moreau/Staios out of town, I think you start getting into net positive value territory.

  67. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Am I of the minority who would like to see what a Vis and Souray combo could do with the new coaches on the PP? Watching Rafalski and Lidstrom work from the point has piqued my interest.

    Don't get me wrong, I would be all for Souray to SJ if we get Bouwmester (and especially if we could lower the cap hit in doing so).

    I'm not fond of two aged D men soaking so much cap space, but I thought Visnovsky and Souray were the best of our D this year. And I rather liked Souray's leadership. But barring injury, I would expect Souray to be of great value to this team and if the PP was more dynamic could improve his trade value even more by next year.

    Also by then, I think Grebs and Gilbert would have enough experience to be reliable for a season instead of their fortnight average.

  68. Coach pb9617 says:

    In fairness Coach, you only need to make three alterations to that roster you just listed to make it look viable.

    Exactly. And they won't.

    Has anyone considered Tambellini might be worse than Lowe? Just saying.

    *raises hand*

    He couldn't get the job in Vancouver. Vancouver stinks. By the associative property of management, Steve Tambellini stinks.

  69. Coach pb9617 says:

    1. Souray will only move to the west coast. no chance of him moving futher away from his kids in california, so stop the idea of him going to Ottawa.

    Then like I said like night, realistically, the deal is dead without a third team.

  70. Coach pb9617 says:

    Souray and Cogliano to San Jose, Pavelski and Cheechoo to Ottawa Heatley to Edmonton

    Toss in picks and prospects for grout to make it work for everyone.

  71. hunter1909 says:

    Does anyone think Katz is going to eat some of those overpriced contracts, to pave the way for the Heatly's and Bouwmeesters?

    As much as I might not have been a fan of the previous coach, it's pretty obvious he had a chicken shit team to work with since 2006.

    But I'm probably deluding myself, just like every summer.

    Lowetide: How about Gagner plus other assets going to Tampa Bay for their draft pick, assuming the Islanders take Hedman first?

  72. Ben says:

    kris: I think the question is do you think Heatley is enough of an improvement over Hemsky for the extra 3.4 million he'll bring against the cap?

  73. kris says:

    I don't know. I get what people are saying, but I don't think people see how nice it would be to have a career 40-50 goal scorer in his prime. Moreover, I don't see how we can win with a bunch of sometimes 20 goal guys.

    Here's how I see it:

    (Heatley+Pouliot) provide more value in the top 6 than (Hemsky+Penner)

    Salary-wise they're the same:

    Heatley 7.5
    Pouliot .825
    Total 8.325

    Penner: 4.25
    Hemsky: 4.1
    Total: 8.35

    Here's the two lineups:

    O'Sullivan-Horcoff-Heatley
    Cogliano-Gagner-Pouliot

    I thinks that's better than

    O'Sullivan-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Penner-Gagner-Cogliano

    IMO, you don't save money paying your star players, you save it by finding some talented rookies and decent vets to fill in the holes. But that's just me.

    This team spends too much on players like Moreau, Penner, and Pisani when cheaper, perhaps slightly less effective, alternatives are always available: see Reasoner, GlennX, etc.

    —-

    BTW, Heatley's GAON this year was poor, but if you look at the two or three years before that he's done pretty well PVP. My guess is, he'd have way better numbers with Horcoff than Spezza.

    —-

    Finally, for everyone who thinks Heatley's too old to fit with our core, do you think the same of Visnovsky? Should he be dealt? Horcoff-Heatley-Visnovsky is a nice core, no?

  74. Bar Qu says:

    kris,

    if you have a heatley then you need a hemsky. Heatley will never get the puck up the ice the way Hemsky can. So, based on contracts and styles, yeah Hemsky is more valuable than Heatley. We already have o-zone dynamos whose +/- is poor (although Heatley's ability to outscore is unparalleled). IF the Oil give up either Gagner or Hemsky for that contract, man, it will be hard to cheer for them (I still will, but it will be hard).

  75. Deano says:

    At his price, Heatley is a shiny object that catches your eye, but should be left on the shelf.

    Who cares what Ott wants in return. He does not form the base of a Cup contender but costs as much as one.

  76. MattM says:

    Kris:

    I think most of us would be willing to concede Heatley is a more valuable player than Hemsky, albeit in a possibly more limited role (depending on what you think of his defense, I don't really watch enough of Ottawa to say).

    The problem is that he's 3.5 million dollars more against the cap. Hemsky is one of far too few guys on this team that actually outperforms his cap hit. Not to mention that the idea of getting a guy like that is to add to the top end talent of the team. You swap Heatley for Hemsky and you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, and paying 3.5 million dollars to do it.

  77. Smarmy Boss says:

    I don't really care if we get Heatley, but we all know that Katz really, really, really wants a big name acquisition.

    Hossa's play in the SCF might just play him out of Detroit and back into free agency.

    Now that I think about it. I have this nice mental image of Heatley burying the needle on his Ferrari on that new highway/freeway they build around Edmonton. :)

  78. quain says:

    LT, can't we go back to the old way and just have you start wielding the banhammer a bit more liberally or something? This new system puts the kibosh on discussion whenever you have better things to do than babysit the blog.

  79. R-Gib says:

    IMHO, you can't move Hemsky or Gagner. No way. Visnovsky and Horcoff are beauties… I'd put them on the "untouchables" list too.

    Taking into account quality of player, age and salary, I'd say our best bargaining chips are (best at top):
    Gilbert
    Cogliano
    Souray
    Grebeshkov
    O'Sullivan
    Penner
    Pisani
    Peckham
    Smid
    Moreau
    Brodziak
    Staios
    Pouliot
    Nilsson
    Stortini
    Jacques
    Reddox

    Now I understand if you pick this apart – that's ok, it's just a starting point.

    If we are going after Heatley we need to dump a lot of salary, as others have already mentioned. It really looks like we have to move one of the top 3 D and a quality pricey forward to make it work and provide value to both teams.

    I've suggested this before, but I think that a package like:
    Heatley and Campoli/Lee for
    Souray/Gilbert, Penner/O'Sullivan, Nilsson and a pick/prospect (Schremp anyone?) would work.

  80. Black Dog says:

    I think that you have hit the nail on the head here in a couple of matters here, LT.

    Is Heatley worth:

    a) the cap hit
    b) what it costs to obtain him

    the answer to a) is absolutely not, imo. He scores goals and that is obviously huge but he goes through long long stretches where he does not score goals and when he's not scoring goals he doesn't do a lot of anything else.

    the talk from Duhatschek on the game blog last night was Lubo plus maybe Cogliano to get it done

    I've seen some of the other talk here as well – Gilbert plus Cogliano etc etc

    Based on the return the Oilers got for Pronger, a far superior player, I would certainly hope they would not give up two fine young players plus for Heatley.

    I'd just rather see the money spent elsewhere and the young assets not moved at all. If they are to be moved I want them to be moved for a guy who really drives results, not a guy who benefitted from playing with Spezza and Alfredsson.

    Let Heatley go to LA.

  81. Master Lok says:

    Kris:
    I don't mean to sound snarky, but I really want to know whether and why people think Hemmer is better than Heatley.

    It's not that Hemmer is better than Heatley, it's that
    a) Heatley's cap hit at 7.5 vs. Hemmer's cap hit of 4.1
    b) you've fixed the LW … and opened up a hole on the RW.

  82. quain says:

    I got bored and wanted to see how other teams came in on LT's "can you win anything of value with" 28.1M for five players line in the sand:

    WC Playoff Teams, total of five highest paid players:

    ANA – 29.45
    DET – 31.35
    CHI – 29.42
    VAN – 23.44
    CBJ – 20.90
    STL – 22.25
    CGY – 27.85
    SJS – 30.54

    Average: 26.90
    Semi-final Average: 28.41

    EC Playoff Teams:

    WAS – 28.76
    PIT – 26.28
    PHI – 28.83
    BOS – 25.58
    CAR – 18.53
    MTL – 25.75
    NYR – 32.78
    NJD – 23.66

    Average: 26.27
    Semi-final Average: 24.79

    Conference Finals Average: 26.39
    Stanley Cup Finals Average: 28.82

    The superficial answer is 'yeah, you can,' but I'll add that I agree with LT: If that's your top five, and you're running out Edmonton's bottom tier forwards too, you're not going far. This team, if it adds Heatley, would do well to move some dead money and add in anything else.

  83. Bruce says:

    we are not the GM's of the team.

    Hear …

    Tambellini has many more variables to consider then our nutty proposals.

    … hear.

    Sorry, fellows, but some of this stuff makes me laugh. Although I do find the "idealized" rosters interesting.

    Tampa Bay has had some success with this model ala Richards, Lecavalier, and St. Louis, but after their goalie and depth suffered from the burden of those big shiny new contracts we all know how that ended…and the same is happening now in Ottawa.

    I agree with your point, Uni, but must quibble about Tampa's success with this model. The Big Three led them to the Cup before the lockout, and Tampa's decision to pay those three guys and let the likes of Khabibulin, Kubina and Boyle walk led immediately to an unbalanced squad that hasn't won a playoff series since, and has crashed to the bottom of the standings two years running. So I would argue that "model" was a miserable failure in a cap context. Of course there were many other (mis)management issues at play, too, in that circus.

    Agreed though, that Ottawa is heading the same way for the same reasons. Which makes me think that if Heatley doesn't fit to the point that he's demanding a trade, it's probably in their best interests to grant him that wish, clear some cap space, and acquire a few "assets". But the best single return from the deal might be the riddance of that contract, and the rest of the price tag might be lower than you suppose.

    Speaking of Tampa, the Brad Richards trade might be a pretty reasonable comparison. They got back a useful but not overwhelming goatender (with which the market is flooded just now), but they didn't get a skater in return who's in the league of Gilbert or Cogliano, let alone both of them. They only got a 4th rounder as well. Main thing Tampa got back was cap relief.

  84. Bruce says:

    Officially, does Scuderi get credit for three saves there?

    Coach: Scuderi's performance in the dying minutes of Game 6 could serve as an instructional video for shutdown defencemen. Desperation clear of the fattest rebound on a night of fat rebounds (see: all three goals), emergency shot block on a chaotic play where Fleury had lost his stick, and then that amazing sequence in the dying seconds where I too counted three individual saves (one with the stick, two with the skate).

    This former goalie is a huge fan of the stay-at-home defender, who is truly the "goalie's best friend", never mind those fickle goal posts. Great to see a player of that type grab the limelight once in a blue moon — the replay of the Penguins players congratulating Scuderi on the bench was great to see — but in the process he's gone from Kurt Sauer to Jeff Finger.

    Too bad in a way, I really like him, and I liked him for the Oilers if the price was right. Hard to begrudge a hard-working low-profile guy a moment like that, though. Outstanding stuff.

  85. Lowetide says:

    Okay, here's the deal. I've opened up the posting option so there's no moderation. I understand it's a hassle for everyone.

    But the other side of it is this: my Mom is in the hospital and I'm going to see her. She's very ill. I might not be able to check this thing until the middle of the night.

    So please, let's be respectful. I understand this is the Al Gore and I get that some of you are just tremendously witty with the putdowns and the slagging.

    But can you post that stuff elsewhere?

    Thanks.

  86. Deano says:

    Lain,

    Sorry to hear about your mother.

    All the best.

  87. dawgbone says:

    Speeds, he's in the AHL simply because we can.

    Not sure if the Oilers have the balls to do that, but that would be where I put him.

    Though what the hell we do next year is well beyond me… it's a nice problem to have, but it's interesting to see what will happen.

  88. Coach pb9617 says:

    Scuderi's performance in the dying minutes of Game 6 could serve as an instructional video for shutdown defencemen.

    Agreed, it's stunning he wasn't the #1 star. I mean, I know that the voters don't exactly have the best hockey cred, but dayum.

  89. Coach pb9617 says:

    Sorry to hear about your mother, LT. Give her well-wishes from about 100 or so psychotically devoted commentors.

  90. Coach pb9617 says:

    The superficial answer is 'yeah, you can,' but I'll add that I agree with LT: If that's your top five, and you're running out Edmonton's bottom tier forwards too, you're not going far. This team, if it adds Heatley, would do well to move some dead money and add in anything else.

    You can, maybe once.

    In order to do so, you have to be Detroit. The rest of your team has to be a perfect mix of emerging talent, plugged in veterans, and perfect role players.

    It's just not a risk that most teams can take. Your GM has to be flawless every year in order to win a playoff round.

    When it comes to Heatley, JUST SAY NO!

  91. kris says:

    It appears I'm on my own with whole Hemsky-Heatley thing. Hope I'm not getting irritating. Next thing you know, I'll be as infamous as FCM or Traktor.:)

    I just think a 50 goal guy is worth losing 3 million in cap space and a 20 goal, 75 point guy in the same way as losing 1.5 million in cap space to upgrade from a 10 goal guy to a 25 goal guy is.

    I know it's not as simple as "3 million for 30 more goals," but an upgrade is an upgrade. Any resultant cap problems can be dealt with without much loss to the roster. There's fat on the Oil that can be cut. Pun intended.

    —-

    JW: Do you think the same of Visnovsky? Why not move him for youth? (His NTC isn't a problem.) For better or for worse, I think management is trying to win now and develop at the same time. There's no other way to explain last year's roster.

  92. kris says:

    I kid Trak and FCM because I love.

  93. Bruce says:

    LT: Best wishes to your mom, and to you.

    Thanks for opening up the discussion, it's much more dynamic this way. And that's a good thing at least 95% of the time.

  94. Gerta Rauss says:

    Best wishes to your mother LT

    Thanks for opening up the blog.
    I respect your decision to moderate – it is your blog after all – but it hasn't been the same around here the last couple days.

  95. HBomb says:

    Best wishes to you and your mother LT. We're all hoping for the best.

  96. doritogrande says:

    The talk of a 1-line player brings out all sorts of crazy talk on what they're worth.

    You don't trade a 19-year old, top-10 drafted, established NHLer for 7.5M. The last time something like this happened we wound up having to go PVP versus Iginla for the rest of his career. Sure Dallas won a cup, but Calgary got their superstar.

    You also don't trade a value contract for a crippling one. That's not smart asset management, and as has already been mentioned, you open up a hole on the other wing so what's the net value of that grade.

    What the Oilers should do if they want to approach Heatley, is trade from a position of strength. We're also taking on a massive salary, which is different from the Pronger scenario where he was signed to a value contract.

    You give Ottawa cap relief and a future when you acquire Heatley, and they should be happy to get that. To me, a trade for Heatley (and only Heatley) involves (a signed) Grebeshkov and Jordan Eberle. That's it.

  97. speeds says:

    All the best to your mother and yourself, LT.

  98. godot10 says:

    //It appears I'm on my own with whole Hemsky-Heatley thing. Hope I'm not getting irritating. Next thing you know, I'll be as infamous as FCM or Traktor.:)//

    Hemsky can drive the bus.

    Heatley, like Penner, cannot drive the bus. He is better than Penner, but still only a complimentary player (with an attitude problem). Plus, Heatley is as soft as butter. Will not age well with the public after a few encounters with Regehr.

  99. PDO says:

    All the best LT.

  100. Bruce says:

    Heatley's game has been in the crapper for over a year. This year — the first season of his 6-year, $45 MM windfall contract — he recorded post-lockout lows in goals, assists and points, and a truly dreadful -11 playing with the best players on his club. This on top of a 4 GP, 1-0-1, -5 playoff in 2008.

    I watched Heatley and Spezza pretty closely at the World Championships, and I thought both were pretty close to dreadful without the puck. Both are seriously overpaid to the point where I wouldn't sign either to those kind of dollars as UFAs. Why give up valuable young players as well?

  101. Jonathan Willis says:

    LT: Sorry to hear about your mom, all the best.

  102. Jonathan Willis says:

    Kris: I'd consider trading Visnovsky, given his salary. I'd prefer not to, though; he's the team's best defenseman.

  103. PDO says:

    JW: I'd say he's the best player.

    You know, these trades NEVER work out for the team dealing the star.

    Pronger, Hossa (to Pitt), Smyth, Luongo, Thornton, Richards, Boyle….

    Penner, Nilsson, Staios, 2nd round pick in 2010.

    Bet that would be one of the best offers out there.

    Trading Hemsky, Gagner or Visnovsky?

    Blasphemy.

  104. jon k says:

    I really don't understand the fear of committing assets to get a player like Heatley. He's frankly one of the elite goalscorers of his generation in the prime of his career.

    His contract is neither disproportionately high nor long, keeping in mind that when he signed the extension he was coming off of back to back 100+ point seasons. If he had not struggled with injury the following season he would have had three consecutive seasons of 100+.

    His ability to play defense is certainly suspect but I think it's laughable that it should be a reason that any team would turn up their nose at trading for him.

    Quite frankly I think that the main consideration in whether the Oilers should trade for Heatley is what timeline the team decides upon. If you are building this team around Hemsky and his contract you make the trade. Heatley complements Hemsky and the contracts are largely aligned in term.

    If you are building the team around Cogliano and Gagner you don't make the trade.

    That being said, if the cost includes Hemsky or Gagner I think the team should just move onto Bouwmeester or Gaborik. Both are difference makers who could be had for no assets and likely for a lower cap hit. If Heatley goes elsewhere in the west it's not a total loss since it will effectively remove a competitor for either of those two players.

    So basically, sit back, hope Tambellini doesn't send away the Gagner or Hemsky, and enjoy the ride.

  105. Black Dog says:

    All the best to you and yours LT.

  106. Black Dog says:

    jon k. – I'd love to see what Heatley could do with Hemsky but he is overpaid. Hossa scores as well but he's also a complete player, just as an example. And Heatley has had Spezza and quite often Alfredsson by his side for his years with the Sens.

    I just don't like him for this club. He's one dimensional. Now sure its a great dimension to have but when he's not scoring goals he does not bring anything to the table at all. He's soft. And this is two clubs he is walking out on now.

    Pass.

  107. PunjabiOil says:

    Best of luck LT.

    In other news, Edmonton's population has grown by 30,000 over the past year. Amazing!

    http://edmonton.ctv.ca/

  108. Coach pb9617 says:

    PDO, The one superstar trade that has a chance or working out is Hossa. Other than that, the team trading the superstar always loses.

  109. Ribs says:

    Sorry to hear about your mother, LT. Here's to a swift recovery.

    I believe it P.Oil. I drove down Ellerslie for the first time in about 5 years (or more) and it's amazing how much development has gone on south of the city. Beaumont is my old romping grounds and it has pretty much doubled in size since I moved. Crazy.

  110. PDO says:

    PDO, The one superstar trade that has a chance or working out is Hossa. Other than that, the team trading the superstar always loses.

    Yup… and that's quite the reach still AND saw a huge bidding war take place at the deadline.

    And it probably only worked cause he was a soon to be UFA.

    Cogliano being involved is dicey, never mind 83, 89 or 71.

  111. jon k says:

    Black Dog:

    Hossa is great because he's a solid two-way presence, but his offensive ability isn't on the same level as Heatley's. Heatley is consistently a top goal scorer and is a top ten offensive player in the league. Hossa is arguably in the tier below, registered around a point per game most seasons.

    In terms of quality of teammates, Hossa's best seasons have come playing with the likes of Marc Savard, Ilya Kovalchuk, Daniel Alfredsson, Jason Spezza, or Martin Havlat. Pretty much a wash in my estimation.

    In terms of salary I don't think you can say Hossa is a clear win either. He signed for less to play in Detroit, but if he goes elsewhere on the free market he'll likely command the same amount as Heatley over a longer term.

    I would also argue that Hossa's age and injury concerns over the past two seasons will likely ensure that whoever signs him will not see an appropriate return on their investment. Especially in the short term when you consider he's gone to the final twice in consecutive seasons and is flagging badly this year by my eye.

    Obviously it's most a matter of opinion, but my view is that when you have a chance to add a top ten player in any category you do it and then work to fill in the gaps around them.

  112. Coach pb9617 says:

    Cogliano being involved is dicey, never mind 83, 89 or 71.

    Just say no.

    Just say no.

    Sit tight, draft Glennie and Erixon and go from there. Unless someone offers to take THECAPTAINETHANMOREAU off of your hands.

  113. Deano says:

    Coach pb962356658 said:

    Unless someone offers to take THECAPTAINETHANMOREAU off of your hands.

    Hope MacT gets the Wild's coaching job. Then we can trade send them Moreau for Harding.

  114. Bar Qu says:

    All the best to your mom, LT. And I hope you're doing well – emotions always run higher with our moms (witness Kipling's Mother o' Mine).

    I know there tends to be mass insanity that often occurs on these boards, but sometimes it works closer to Harry Seldon's psychohistory. And the consensus that seems to be emerging is that Heatley will not garner as much as Ottawa would get in a perfect world, nor should Edmonton give up more than one roster player (unless it is to shed salary) along with a prospect which doesn't have to be a bluechipper and possibly a pick in later rounds (3rd or later). Despite that, Edm would benefit tremendously from having the one-shot scorer of Heatley, either on Horcoff-Hemsky's wing or Gagner-O'Sullivan. And I think Edm's only real competition is Calgary(?) and LA (who are in a better spot financially).

    What happens over the next two weeks is going to be interesting to talk about.

  115. oilerdago says:

    Best wishes to your mom LT.

    While we badly need a LW, I'm concerned with all the overpays (players we send) I've seen reading the thread. I think JW has probably nailed it in his blog on this though.

    Ottawa needs a puck moving D and they are not going to accept Viz or Souray (both having NMC's). They want young, good contracts. So it's Gilbert or Grebs. Is it worth trading them?

    Because of the contract (Heatley), we have to move another sizable contract. Would hate to lose Cogs or O'Sullivan but one would have to go and O'Sullivan's cap hit is bigger (and will be for the next couple years). We willing to do that?

    Then you throw in a draft pick (a #2). I'm not for trading Eberle as I think he'll be better than many think and then this becomes a real overpay.

    If you think that solves our top line and gives us the goods on the 2nd line, go for it.

    But to get Hemsky the scorer he needs to take the top line to the next level, I admit, I'd do it.

  116. Mike says:

    LT, sorry to hear about your mom and I hope she's herself again soon.

  117. HBomb says:

    Two things:

    1) I'd rather give up Visnovsky and Cogliano than, say, Gilbert and Penner. Only because I'd be loathe to give up Gilbert, moreso than any player on the active roster not named Hemsky or Gagner. But I know I'm in the minority on this. For the record, Visnovsky is the second last Oiler D-man I want to give up.

    2) Good item for debate: Lecavalier vs. Heatley – who would you rather have on the Oilers? Go.

  118. PDO says:

    Heatley.

    Contract half the length, and he'll age better than Vinny. Also easier to hide a guy on the wing than down the middle.

  119. Black Dog says:

    jon k – I love Hossa but I'd steer clear from him unless I could sign him for three or four years which we all know isn't going to happen

    Just a guy I'm throwing out there as an example. If I'm paying that money I want a guy who is going to be able to contribute more then just scoring goals. Because sometimes they just don't go in the net.

    And I'm pretty sure that you take Heatley off of Spezza's wing (never mind the opportunity to play with Alfredsson quite a bit – imo one of the best players in the game) and that offense might dry up a little bit too, maybe a lot.

    I just don't like the guy. I don't like the fact that he's quitting on another team. I don't like the fact that he always seems to disappear when you would expect an elite guy to really shine – SCF, Olympics, how well does he do at the WC when its Russia Canada is facing and not the Kazakhs?

    Just not a fan. I want my guys who are making big money to be reliable guys who I can put out in any situation. Even when Hossa isn't scoring he's moving the puck in the right direction, he is picking up his man, he's hard on the puck

    etc etc

    Or Datsyuk. Or Zetterberg. Or Franzen.

    I'm not saying go after Hossa. I'm saying forget Heatley.

  120. quain says:

    Heatley in a cocaine heartbeat.

    Nobody can convince me that Lecavalier is a good overall player so it comes down to offense. I think Heatley is probably a bit more complimentary in that he won't score goals with shitty players, but if you put him with Hemsky he's getting 40+ without much trouble.

    It doesn't help that Lecavalier is signed until the rapture.

    Completely off topic, but does anyone else find this to be the greatest thing in the world?

    According to TSN of Canada, the Stars are inquiring about Marc Crawford, who was fired as coach of the Los Angeles Kings in June 2008 and whose rights are still owned by the team.

  121. Black Dog says:

    Hbomb – pass on both.

    Its mongoose season. I'm a mongoose. Pull the trigger.

  122. Coach pb9617 says:

    2) Good item for debate: Lecavalier vs. Heatley – who would you rather have on the Oilers? Go.

    Gaborik, and it's not close

  123. Gerta Rauss says:

    Do you think Gaborik will sign for a shorter deal..2 or 3 years?

    I think he's got to prove to the league he can play a full schedule before someone signs him long term.

    Unless it's Sather,at which point Gabby will be bunking with Redden.

  124. quain says:

    Can you set up Gaborik's contract so he only makes 25% of $7M if he only plays 20 games? He might be worth it then… otherwise it's a lot like trying to win a game of basketball if you have to flip a coin every game, heads you get a point guard, tails you play 4 on 5.

  125. Jonathan Willis says:

    Over the last ten seasons, four LW's have topped the 100 point mark. Outside of Ovechkin, only Heatley has done it more than once.

    Over the same time period, only three LW's have topped the 50 goal mark. Ovehckin's done it three times, Kovalchuk twice, and Heatley twice.

    Since Heatley has entered the league, only one LW has scored more goals than his 260. Only one LW has scored more points than his 543.

    So let's not undervalue him. Ottawa's in a tough spot, Edmonton's a good match to trade and the Oilers can't afford to move Hemsky, Gagner or the 10th OV pick, but there's nothing wrong with offering a rich package.

    I wouldn't like to see any of Gilbert, O'Sullivan or Eberle moved, but one of the top offensive LW's in the league would be coming back; only Ovechkin and Kovalchuk are in his league offensively.

  126. Jonathan Willis says:

    Quain: Yes.

  127. Deano says:

    Re: Crawford in Dallas

    Does that mean Tippet is gonna be available?

    That's the next best guy to Quenville on my list.

  128. HBomb says:

    Coach: I'll see your Gaborik and raise you a Havlat.

    He'd be quite the acquisition for that 1LW spot.

  129. jon k says:

    Black Dog: Fair enough. Everybody has players that they like or do not like.

    For what it's worth, I believe that Heatley is Canada's all time leading scorer at the WC. I tried to confirm that but can't find the information.

    His scoring in the playoffs is also 34-10-25-35.

  130. Coach pb9617 says:

    Quain, you certainly can, but the bonus cushion still soaks up cap space.

    Is this completely unrealistic? From where I stand it's not.

    O'Sullivan – Horcoff – Pisani
    Gaborik – Gagner – Hemsky
    Penner – Betts – Cogliano
    Jacques – Brodziak – Stortini
    MacIntyre

    Klesla – Gilbert
    Vishnovsky – Grebeshkov
    Zanon – Smid
    Peckham

    Legace
    Anderson (Labarbera)

    All for $53,000,000…

  131. knighttown says:

    We briefly discussed filling in the bottom 6 with cheap players. We also love Desjardins NHL equivalencies. This leads to a question:

    Could this guy not play 3rd/4th line LW for us?

    Alexandre Giroux- 6'3", 205 lbs., 28 years old.

    1st in AHL goal scoring with 60 in 69GP. Second place was 39 in 79. No one else had 40 goals or 0.5G/G and he had 60 and .87G/G.

    1st in AHL points with 97 in 69GP. And a plus 23.

    1st in playoff goals and points with 27 points in 21 games.

    What do those NHL-E's look like?

  132. Dennis says:

    LT: I hope things take a turn for the better for your Mom.

  133. kris says:

    Won't any big name free agent we sign have to be a big overpay? (Perenial losing team, bad weather, rumors of disgruntled players, terrible travel schedule, small market, etc.) I mean, we offered Hossa 7 trillion loonies and he still didn't sign here. For God's sakes, we couldn't sign Nylander!

    Isn't 7.5 million for a 40-50 goal scorer in his prime about fair market value?

    I'm not saying, I'm just saying. You know… maybe… :)

  134. uni says:

    LT – I'm sorry to hear about your mom and I hope she recovers fully and quickly.

    Bruce – I wasn't implying at all that the Stanley Cup run by Tampa was part of their success running with 1 line and filler. By some success I meant post lockout they made it to the playoffs before imploding, and like I said went downhill very fast from there. Ottawa is very much in the same boat IMO.

    Also I couldn't agree with you more on Spezza and Heatley. In Ottawa it's obvious who runs that bus, and it's Alfredsson, the other two look lost without him when the opposition players aren't placeholders. I'm not saying that Spezza isn't a world class playmaker when he has the puck in the other team's zone, and that Heatley isn't devastingly good at firing the puck into the net, but both players can't do anything else and need to be sheltered.

    If you're going to invest 6 million plus on a player longterm, much less 7.5 or more, you want them to be of the Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, Lidstrom, Pronger, Neidermayer, Gaborik, Havlat, Hossa ilk. That is guys who can bring the goals, drive the play themselves, and not be liabilities. You want players who can drive the bus for that kind of money, not complementary players.

    For 7.5 million why give up valuable assets at all? Why not just go for Gaborik or Boumeester? How many people want Lecavalier here? It has to be obvious by now that the Tampa – Ottawa model of playing out huge money to complementary players just doesn't work in the cap NHL. That said though, I think St. Louis is worth every penny of his contract, I would love to see that guy in Oilers silk over Lecavalier.

  135. godot10 says:

    //Over the last ten seasons, four LW's have topped the 100 point mark. Outside of Ovechkin, only Heatley has done it more than once.
    Over the same time period, only three LW's have topped the 50 goal mark. Ovehckin's done it three times, Kovalchuk twice, and Heatley twice.//

    It is all Alfredsson. Spezza is crap. Heatley is only a complimentary player. As the Eastern Conference has gotten stronger, Ottawa has gone backwards because Heatley and Spezza just aren't that good.

    Kotalik would be much better value for money. He would get 30 goals for 1/3rd Heatley's salary. He can check a little bit, and is not afraid of the tough going.

  136. speeds says:

    Gaborik may be eligible to sign a contract with bonuses (not sure exactly how many days he was on the IR, he needs to be on the IR for 100 days, which I would imagine he was but am not certain), but only if it's a one year deal.

    I'd be very surprised if that's all the interest he can get.

  137. Angela says:

    JW please explain why the #10 pick is so untouchable…how many players of heatleys caliber have gone at 10 overall?

    I count selane and thats it

  138. kris says:

    LT:

    Sending my best wishes.

  139. Coach pb9617 says:

    I'd be very surprised if that's all the interest he can get.

    He's going to be 27. Give him the deal.

  140. Coach pb9617 says:

    Also, sign a deal with Dr. William Meyers, North America's foremost groin specialist, when you sign a deal with Gaborik.

  141. HBomb says:

    Coach:

    O'Sullivan – Horcoff – Pisani
    Gaborik – Gagner – Hemsky

    It looks good in principle, but for the short term (i.e. the next season), I would be strongly against Gagner with Hemsky and (insert high-end LW'er name here).

    Odds are that they'd get premium matchups and lots of O-zone starts while the Horcoff line does the heavy lifting matchup line.

    This translates to more points, which in turn translates to Gagner's second contract being more and more expensive.

    Now, the outside the box approach would be for Tambellini to offer Gagner a Parise-style extension (3 million or so per season over three years) prior to the start of the upcoming season, which would remove the risk and allow such an approach.

    Dennis: did you receive any mail from Edmonton in the last couple days?

  142. Bar Qu says:

    Just found a site to make a word cloud of text. I decided to cloud this discussion and the result was interesting

    http://www.wordle.net/gallery/wrdl/933510/Heatley_discussion

    The style is mine, obviously June and PM are functions of the time and date, but its interesting to see what the main focus words are. Not useful or functional, but interesting.

  143. Sean says:

    I agree with the majority that would go after Gaborik over Heatley. It will be very interesting to see what Ottawa's timeline would be. My guess is that their preference is to get a deal done before the draft which complicates things for Tambellini if we are going to be active in the UFA market. We should be given our goaltending dilema.

  144. Asiaoil says:

    Heatley Horcoff Hemsky
    POS Gagner Kotalik
    Ruutu Belanger Pisani
    JFJ Brule Stortini/Mac

    Grebs Souray
    Jaybo Smid
    Peckham Smith

    Harding
    Anderson

    3 trades…

    Penner/Moreau/Gilbert to OTT for Heatley/Smith/Ruutu
    Visnovsky and Pouliot to FLA for Jaybo before July 1
    Staios and Cogliano for Harding and Belanger

    People might not agree on the return for Cogliano but it clears cap and fills two big holes on the 3rd line and in net. There are certainly other deals for a Cogliano-Staios combo as well – but this lineup has 3 lines that can take care of themselves at both ends of the ice and is a lot nastier to play against. Jaybo and Smid would be a great mobile, puck-moving shutdown combo with Grebs-Souray providing more offense.

  145. PDO says:

    Honestly stopped reading at Ruutu.

  146. HBomb says:

    I know we need some "grease" in the lineup, but Ruutu?

    He's on the list with Matt Cooke, Jordin Tootoo, Todd Bertuzzi and Corey Perry when it comes to "mega-scum I could never cheer for".

    Give me Steve Ott. Hell, give me Sean Avery….

  147. Coach pb9617 says:

    Steve Ott , you say?

    :-)

  148. YKOil says:

    Best wishes for health to you and yours LT.

  149. hunter1909 says:

    Heatley is an elite Team Canada star who plays on the first line.

    I'd love to repeat this: He plays on Team Canada, on the first line.

    The last Oilers aside from good old Chris Pronger to play for Canada was Ryan Smyth, good enough to star for the Oilers, but on team Canada was put in as a Moreau third line guy.

    Talent wins hockey games that matter. Heatley possesses elite talent.

    Switch Heatley for Ryan Smyth in 2006 game 7 and Oilers have 6 cups.

  150. Jon says:

    After reading the comments, I think my opinion most resembles JW and Kris.

    Gaborik and Havlat…really? These two have been the posterboys for injuries and holdouts the last few years. They are great players, but like Kris said, who was the last big name free agent to sign here not named Souray,and that was an overpay.

    I would prefer to make my own destiny by trading for Heatley and not roll the dice on July 1st. Gaborik and Havlat are going to command at least 6 million on the open market and THERE IS NO GUARANTEE that they would even sign here. Nylander wouldn't sign here for a huge overpay.

    My priority would be

    1. to get a handshake deal with Jay-bo by trading for his rights and then trade a d-man for a top 6 forward.

    2. If Jay-bo wants no part, then I would trade for Heatley. Penner Gilbert 2010, 1st

    3. If that is not enough then I would look at Gaborik but not until I have exhausted those other two avenues.

  151. Black Dog says:

    jon k. – yes this is true

    and I will say that Heatley almost had me convinced in the Sens run in '07 – he did well until the Finals

    so while Hunter thinks the Oilers would have six Cups if Heatley had been on the club instead of Smyth I disagree. They likely might not have made it to the SCF with that switch, Smyth was playing against Joe Thornton with Horcoff and a scrub and coming out on top.

    As for him being first line Canada LW that means nothing to me really. That's WC and one Olympics where Canada did not even medal and their biggest issue was scoring goals.

    Having said all of that JW as usual cuts to the chase. The guy can score goals.

    No doubt.

    But I'm of the mind that that's Spezza and Alfie most of all.

    They need to go after Bouwmeester. Sign him and then move one of the big veteran D. Add some bulk up front. Stay clear of a guy like Gaborik. He's too injury prone.

    I'd go after Jordan Staal myself.

  152. Coach pb9617 says:

    2. If Jay-bo wants no part, then I would trade for Heatley. Penner Gilbert 2010, 1st.

    Ottawa can't take back that much salary.

  153. Scott says:

    Quite a bit late with this, but I just wanted to wish you and your mother the best LT. I hope that this is a place where you'll find support.

  154. Oilman says:

    I don't know Coach – a top 2 d-man, a replacement left winger, and a top 10 draft in deep year, all for an extra $750,000 in cap space? I don't think the Sens would get a better offer.

  155. Bruce says:

    Heatley is an elite Team Canada star who plays on the first line.

    I'd love to repeat this: He plays on Team Canada, on the first line.

    Hunter: This is a hugely important point given the Oilers' braintrust's deep roots in the Program of Excellence.

    Quinn coached Heatley in the World Cup, Renney would have seen him several times in his various roles, and perhaps most importantly, Tambellini would have chosen Heatley for his Team Canada roster on occasion.

    For sure the group will know Heatley well enough to make an informed decision. But given that connection, it wouldn't surprise me if they went after him.

  156. doritogrande says:

    It is all Alfredsson. Spezza is crap. Heatley is only a complimentary player.

    I might be misinterpreting your statement here, but I think Horcoff can bring the things that Alfredsson does on the big line in Ottawa. They play a very similar game and it would seem to be the easiest transition to Edmonton for Heatley would be to stick him with a mucker (Horcoff) and an elite playmaker (Hemsky) and run them PVP. It's easy to admit that Horcoff doesn't have the offense that Alfredsson brings and that the defensive ability would be a saw-off, but Hemsky's speed and defensive game is something that Spezza never brought.

    If it's a trade straight up for Heatley, a defenseman and a top prospect (not the 10th overall pick) is my offer. Either that, or you go with the patented "grab bag o' 5 assets" and deal off Nilsson (Lupul), Chorney (Smid), a first in 2012, second in 2011 and a conditional first rounder in 2011 if we make the Conference Finals.

  157. shanetrain says:

    I would love Heater on the the Oil .. but at what cost?

    I would hate to see the Oil get rid of the 10th pick this year .. big longterm mistake.

    If we are going to go for something , go for Bouwmeester. The guy is a no doubter for years to come.

    I would also be ok with not picking up any "superstars" and building this thing properly.

    Laugh it up but R Nilsson is capable of 55 – 65 assists/year.

    Cogliano will be good for 25 – 35 goals soon.

    I think small pieces are going to be better for us in the long run.

    Throw big money at a 'tender and Bouwmeester .. let the rest of the roster fill itself out.

  158. HBomb says:

    For BDHS: I posted it at your place, and I'm going to post it here for discussion purposes.

    I like Heater more than most, but this is my "ideal scenario":

    - Sign Bouwmeester
    - Souray for Clowe
    - Cogliano and Nilsson for J. Staal
    - Ditch Moreau and Staios in salary dumps

    Penner-J.Staal-Hemsky
    O'Sullivan-Horcoff-Pisani
    Clowe-Gagner-(Brule or Eberle)

    Bouwmeester-Gilbert
    Visnovsky-Grebeshkov

    Get a goalie and fill out the end of the roster with cheap veterans who play with edge.

    Heatley's quite the talent, and I like some of the other forwards that could be had (the Sedins, Havlat, Gaborik, Hossa…hell, even Lecavalier at the right price isn't totally terrible), but Bouwmeester is the choice available asset out there, even if he is a defenseman (a position where the Oilers are currently deepest).

  159. shanetrain says:

    How could I forget.

    I hope everything works out with your Mother LT.

  160. Deano says:

    Stars hire Crawford, fire Tippett.

    We moved too soon. I like Tippett better than our guys.

  161. stubby says:

    Sorry if this has been discussed in previous threads, but I see a lot of love for Clowe (over the past year or so) in discussions about 'dream acquisitions'. I don't get it. Don't we have him in Penner already?

  162. digger says:

    And in other news, Pete Peeters is no longer the goalie coach for the Oilers.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Oilers+goalie+coach+Pete+Peeters/1686014/story.html

  163. Bruce says:

    Digger lives up to his name yet again. I had trouble with the link, however. Try this.

    Pretty hard to verify Matheson's statement about Peeters doing a "good job" with JDD and DD. I wonder what Mathieu Garon thinks (while he prepares for Game 7 of the SCF).

  164. jon k says:

    stubby:

    I don't entirely understand the love for Clowe either, but I think you've mis-represented him. He strikes me more as Moreau at 25. Same position, same size and weight, same playing style and toughness most nights.

    He's put up a few more points but then again he's playing with Moreau or Thornton, or both.

    Trading Souray for Clowe would be highway robbery for SJ, especially considering that Clowe is likely to ask for close to 4 million. Ironically enough Penner might be a comparable used by his agent.

  165. hunter1909 says:

    The way I always saw winning hockey was the old style Oilers. You get top line scoring talent up front(Anderson, Kurri), with physically dominating role players to keep the opposition honest(McSorely, Semenko).

    Heatley fills the former role very well. It's also why I would personally hope Souray sticks around.

    Now that I think about it, suddenly I want Gagner and Cogliano on the fourth line, haha, as my nostalgia for that incredible kid line from 1990 rears it's head.

    MacT, Huddy, now Peeters – not a good time to be a member of the old boys club at Northlands.

    PS: hunter1909's happiest hockey moment this past month – watching Youtube clip of Canada's 2002 gold medal win, and seeing Tambellini clapping from the stands. Standing right next to him is some guy I don't remember, but I think he used to play for the Oilers or something :P

  166. Mike says:

    Anyone see Don Brennan's Heatley rant in the Ottawa Sun?

    Is this journalism? What a bitchfest.

    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2009/06/11/9762051-sun.html

  167. Dennis says:

    HB: I just received it today and many thanks.

    There are many ways to go on what we give up for Heatley but I don't think there's gonna be a bidding war for him just because of the enormity of his contract. Plus, if the market says you can't get real players for Pronger;), then what can you get for Dany?

    I"m not sure if the Sens will also move Spezza and start all over – that's always my first idea; to blow things up but I never consider that the fans have to have someone to cheer for – so I don't think they'd take the first guy that I would move: Souray. Plus, he has a NMC clause.

    We could fit the guy in by moving that pact plus 18-24 and then go PVP with 27-10-83 and a soft min line of 19-89-Heatley. Go 78-34 as the genesis of a secondary tough line and add a vet centre.

    I understand that this scnario means 13's out the door and that could really hurt down the road,.

  168. hunter1909 says:

    Senators remind me more and more of the breakup of the Oilers. First they lost Chara and piece by piece they're starting to slide into the mire.

    Heatley is the one Senator I'd love to see on the Oilers, A one shot scorer, and a 50 goal one at that. It's guys like that who tend to come up the biggest in the biggest games, as those in the know understand that in big games both sides are often fairly equal to the task at hand. But there is usually a moment where a truly superior player will simply rise up higher than anyone else is capable of.

    Which is precisely why teams like the OIlers over the past many years have been unable to compete. How many times has Mike Modano simply got THE goal, just when it mattered the most? Grinding teams, blah, let Calgary play that rotten losing style.

    Of course that Senators hack is whining his head off. He's going to have to cover a shitty hockey team. Led by Mike Comrie, lol.

    Then of course, Heatley then signs with the Canucks, lol.

  169. godot10 says:

    //Heatley is the one Senator I'd love to see on the Oilers, A one shot scorer, and a 50 goal one at that. It's guys like that who tend to come up the biggest in the biggest games, as those in the know understand that in big games both sides are often fairly equal to the task at hand. But there is usually a moment where a truly superior player will simply rise up higher than anyone else is capable of. //

    But Heatley isn't that guy. Heatley is the spoiled narcissistic frat boy who disappears when the going gets tough. See Anaheim vs. Ottawa.

    Heatley was happier when the Senators were losing, i.e. before Clouston, than winning, i.e. with Clouston.

    There is no "team" in Heatley.

  170. hunter1909 says:

    godot: When a player can score 50 goals, the last thing I'm worried about is his attitude, because that flake is capable of scoring single handedly what a lot of entire lines produce.

    The Ducks were a prototypical big tough team, that when push came to shove were able to generally bitch slap the Sens around. So Heatley didn't want to step up and get his face smashed in, knowing full bloody well that most of his Senators team mates didn't have the guts necessary to stand up for themselves, let alone him.

    I'd say the same thing happened last season with the Oilers. Not enough toughness, no one taking responsibility for poor play, nothing. I wouldn't give effort if I was out there either. Why bother? I'd still be getting paid.

    Heatley might not be Glenn Anderson, but he's no pansy either. Surround a guy like that with dudes who are willing to step up physically against anyone, and I'd be willing to bet Heatley produces.

    Not everyone's ethanthecaptainmoreau, the poster boy for not taking responsiblity, combined with living off a past reputation. The next step to take, now that I've just thought of it, is to trade Moreau asap, while everyone else still thinks he's got value.

  171. PDO says:

    Strickland says LA has offered Frolov, Johnson, 5th OV.

    …. pass.

  172. Bruce says:

    If I'm Ottawa I do that deal in a heartbeat. Wow.

  173. Bruce says:

    That's better than Chara and a 2nd overall for Yashin.

  174. jon k says:

    The proposed LA package is more fluff than substance.

    Frolov is gone for free agency in a year which substantially mitigates his value.

    Johnson's stock has fallen significantly since being considered a blue chipper and possible franchise defenseman.

    On top of his obvious attitude issues which were apparent on the ice in college and during both of his contract negotiations, there's also the increasing fear that he's, well, not that good.

    He's posted atrocious goal differentials in his first two seasons despite playing only middling opposition. He has a penchant for taking pointless penalties and while he plays with an edge he often goes too far.

    The 5th overall pick is far and away the best asset that LA is offering. If Murray takes that trade he really has lost his marbles and Melnyk would do well to remove him from management quickly.

  175. PDO says:

    That's insane.

    Unless there's a crazier scenario that sees Souray+ to LA, we can kiss any thoughts of Heatley goodbye.

  176. PDO says:

    Jon:

    Ottawa would suddenly have a lot of cap space to sign Frolov to an extension.

  177. bookie says:

    So, Peeters is out as Goalie coach. I think its pretty obvious that he was a total failure and the root of a lot of problems.

    Evidence: He couldn't coach Mathew Garon into a backup spot here over JDD, yet Garon has moved onto Pittsburg and is now one game away from winning the Stanley Cup.

    Its all Peeters and MacT's fault that we gave up a Stanley Cup Finalist goalie for what, some second string minor league goalie.

  178. jon k says:

    PDO: Assuming Frolov wants to re-sign in Ottawa. There's also the issue that I'm not particularly a big believer in Frolov. I think he's a solid player, but the difference between him and Penner is probably not a lot.

  179. PDO says:

    Jon: Funny… I was going to say there's not a lot of difference between Heatley & Frolov. He gets it done at both ends and has offensive flair….

  180. Mr DeBakey says:

    RIch Hammond from the LA Daily News say Strickland's info about Johnson is all wrong

    http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/2009/06/what-johnson-isnt-asking-for.html

    Strickland's sources?
    Don't bet the house on 'em

  181. Asiaoil says:

    Peeters is fired – oh happy day – another big negative removed from the team. The guy was technically useless, developed no one over his entire term, and possibly wreck a few guys. Now get a real coach – too bad Alaire got poached by the Leafs – but I'm pouring myself a very nice glasss of scotch tonight in celebration.

  182. Asiaoil says:

    I'd probably chance Melanson now that he's been let go by Montreal. He knows Tambellini and the guy has a strong resume over the years in Montreal. Price isn't his fault – the kid has great natural skill but the GM forced a 20 year old into the Montreal pressure cooker way before he was mentally ready and then watched him crack. That wasn't Melanson's fault.

    Rollie the Goalie is my pick…

  183. Oilman says:

    PDO – I just read that Strickland article (I feel all dirty now), and nowhere does it say the Kings have offered anything – and "a high draft pick", doesn't mean this years 5th…..big stretch on your part I'm thinking unless he wrote another article somewhere? He even mentions to not expect a deal before July 1st due to Heatley's bonus coming up…..so it's really just more typical BS from the man who started the crib burning rumors….really, why would Ottawa hang on to Dany so that they could pay him $4mil in bonus money before they trade him?

  184. Black Dog says:

    asia – what's the connection between Tambellini and Melanson?

    I'd agree – Habs never seem to have bad goaltending

  185. Deano says:

    Oilman said:

    why would Ottawa hang on to Dany so that they could pay him $4mil in bonus money before they trade him?

    Why would any other team take Heatley before July 1 when they can stick Ott with the bonus?

    Unless of course, the asking price is a lot lower if the new team picks up the bonus.

    Asia,

    What about the other Roli the goalie? Roloson is pretty close to player-coach status anyway and he honed his craft to make himself a true number one quite late in life. Pretty good experience in developing (his own) talent.

  186. Oilman says:

    melanson and halak would be a nice little coup

  187. Asiaoil says:

    Black Dog – Tambo and Melanson played together for the Isles back in the day.

    Deano – no to Roloson as he has no experience and does not appear to possess any mentoring skills at all. He's all about #1

    Oilman – yes Halak-Melanson would be nice and then add a cheap vet like Anderson and we are set with a nice inexpensive tandem with experience and potential. Not sure what the Habs want for Halak – but they would be far better off with a vet to give Price some stability.

  188. Asiaoil says:

    Halak and Chipchura for Nilsson and Pouliot? It's mostly scouting by google but Chipchura's numbers in the AHL suggest a useful cheap bottom 6 player who can play a two-way game in the mold of Reasoner. We need more of those.

  189. hunter1909 says:

    Wasn't Melanson once a California Golden Seal?

    Just so everyone keeps their priorities straight.

  190. Asiaoil says:

    No he didn't enter the league until the early 80s' – Charlie's white skate crew were long gone by then. Eleven years in Montreal and a lot of success over that time – he's got a solid resume.

  191. Bruce says:

    I'd agree – Habs never seem to have bad goaltending.

    BDHS: I take it you missed the last two playoffs, and the back half of the Jose Theodore Era?

  192. Black Dog says:

    Bruce – hah, yeah I know, my point being though is that when someone falters then they always have someone to plug into the gap

    Even now with Price they have a decent 1B in Halak.

    I feel for the kid Price, btw. They're destroying him.

    But its not even the playoffs. Habs slide this seaosn began when Price went off the rails. All of this mobster crap and all that was mostly white noise, imo.

  193. Asiaoil says:

    Bruce – Melanson did not decide to throw a raw rookie to the dogs in the most difficult place for a goalie to play in the league – the GM and coach did. He also did not trade away anyone resembling a veteran goalie to support Price. Those were idiotic decisions that hurt Price and may end up throwing a major wrench into his development. Melanson also did not choose Theodore's "business" associates. Montreal has had a strong goalie pipeline for the entire 11 years Melanson was there and the org developed multiple guys. Sure I'd prefer Allaire but Melanson is a solid 2nd choice.

  194. Lowetide says:

    Rollie Melanson didn't play for the Seals, you might be thinking of Gilles Meloche. Melanson is an often overlooked individual, to the point that a friend of mine once mentioned him as one of the "best Euro goalies of his era."

  195. Bruce says:

    Asia/BD: Oh yeah, I'm not putting any of that on Rollie the Goalie I. Gainey's decision to trade Huet at the deadline last year was a poor one, took away the safety net long before Price was ready. May well have destroyed him; Price was a mess for large parts of this past regular season and had his second straight poor playoff series. Some of his body language and interviews suggested a kid who has profoundly lost his confidence.

    I guess Gainey figured he was the next coming of Ken Dryden or Patrick Roy, that it was OK to throw the rook to the playoff dogs, but oh boy, what a mistake.

  196. General and Celebrities news says:

    i a gree all.. thanks

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