Oilers pick at 133: Olivier Roy

Christ, this draft is all over the place.

Ranked
  • Redline: 56
  • Bob McKenzie: HM
  • THN: 38
  • TSN: 39

NHL Central Scouting’s Chris Bordeleau“He catches your attention. He’s steady and he plays well all the time.

Cape Breton goaltending coach Scott Gouthro: “Olivier Roy has extremely quick reflexes and when he challenges is extremely hard to beat. He continues to work on his puckhandling which is a key tool for the next level. He is a warrior, his competitive nature and desire to win is exceptional.”

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122 Responses to "Oilers pick at 133: Olivier Roy"

  1. Smarmy Boss says:

    Good pick. Glad they got a decent tender.

  2. HBomb says:

    Second ranked goalie in North America with a fifth-rounder?

    Witchcraft or not, I cannot argue with that selection one bit.

  3. PunjabiOil says:

    .905 SV%. Backup had .895.

    Good selection.

    I still can't believe we drafted Abney at 3rd though.

  4. Smarmy Boss says:

    Considering that Adam Morrison the backup for Saskatoon went in the 3rd round. Yeah, its a pretty amazing pick.

    For Phillys sake. Morrison will likely be the starter for Saskatoon this year.

  5. jon k says:

    It's a good value at this point in the draft.

  6. PunjabiOil says:

    He's 165 pounds? Is that well below average?

  7. kris says:

    I'll just pretend they picked Roy in the 3rd round and Abney here.

  8. B.C.B. says:

    Nice to see a goal pick by the Oilers. Any idea if Roy will be in the pro-ranks next year, or is he the starter in Cape next year?

  9. PunjabiOil says:

    Oliver Roy.

    Shows very advance thought process and maturity for a 17-year-old goalie. Good mental make-up for a netminder; tough minded and forgets mistakes quickly. Has a solid glove and good athleticism; very flexible and acrobatic. Very quick legs/pads, and moves side to side very well, making him difficult to beat down low. However, for a small guy he's down far too often and early. Gets very scrambly and out of control when he's down in the crease. If he doesn't work on staying upright more, he'll get picked apart by pro shooters who are more adept at picking the top corners. Does get out to the top of the blue to challenge shooters aggressively, but has tendency to overcommit and get himself out of position. Kicks too many rebounds out into the slot.

    Projection: Quality #2 who could start on a weaker club.
    Style compares to: Manny Legace.

  10. PunjabiOil says:

    I guess we'll be one of those 'weaker teams'

  11. uni says:

    Yep, while some picks bother me a bit I'm no professional scout so I won't argue them; I only have issue with one pick that I think even my dotting grandfather who's never seen a hockey player in his life and doesn't even speak a language of any of the hockey playing nations could have seen was a wasted pick.

    It's a crap shoot so who's to say a Hutchings, Gallimore etc. would have panned out? I just wish they'd wagered on someone who had a shot of at least making it to the table, much less cover the bet.

    Of course all they have to do now is pull a Zetterberg or Datsyuk out of their butts and all will be forgiven.

    Good value on the 5th round goalie pick, where'd the Finnish monsters go?

  12. speeds says:

    Can't argue with the value here.

    don't really get the second 3rd round pick, but I like their later picks.

  13. Deano says:

    PJO

    Not if Ryan Miller and Biron are in the total. One of their Buffalo teammates joked about holding a telethon to feed them.

  14. Anonymous says:

    He'll be 18 next year and the starter in CB.

  15. gary b says:

    here's hoping Roy follows the same path as another Screaming Eagles alumni (MA Fleury). Roy invited to Team Canada's junior camp as well.

  16. DBO says:

    kris; that's exactly what i thought. we reached at 3, but have gotten good value the last few picks. When you get multiple players ranked in the top 50 with your picks in the 100's that's a hec of a good deal.

  17. Smarmy Boss says:

    Did someone take Gallimore? I like his skill set. I have no idea what his mental makeup is though.

    I know he went home last year because he was homesick so he was a rookie the dub at his draft eligible age, but he was a force and he'll be on the first line with Hamilton. (A potential first rounder next year)

  18. gary b says:

    by the by, so who's our next goalie coach?

    Reggie Lemelin was let go the other day…

  19. PunjabiOil says:

    Can't argue with the value here.

    don't really get the second 3rd round pick, but I like their later picks.

    Bigos was a 20 year old defenceman in the BCHL. I wasn't so content with that pick either.

  20. Deano says:

    Bigos may be okay – d-men take longer to mature – right?

    So is this 20 y.o. any closer to ready than his peers? He is bigger.

  21. PunjabiOil says:

    Why didn't we take Hutchings instead of Abney? Over a PPG player

    ______

    International Scouting Services: "Hutchings finished 3rd in voting for Best Skater in OHL Eastern Conference Coaches Poll. Displays good puck skills in the offensive zone – knows when to hold on to it and when to pass to others in better position. Lack of strength is evident during 1 on 1 battles against bigger defenders. Has speed and skill required to take puck wide and beat defender off the rush. He has improved his offence totals in each of his 3 seasons in the OHL. During some games he is very quiet, then all of the sudden turn it on and become a real force."

  22. Bruce says:

    Glenn Fisher and Bryan Pitton, pack your bags.

  23. uni says:

    The Oilers have pulled useful D out of seemingly nowhere before, so here's hoping Hesketh is one of those late bloomers and turns into a fine 4th defenceman and surprises us all.

    Maybe he'll be a Komisarek type?

  24. Paper Designer says:

    Goaltenders are by far the most unpredictable position. There's nothing to say that Olivier Roy will not be the next Ryan Miller, or alternatively, another no-name bust who never was quite good enough to make the show.

    But the Oilers need to start taking more shots; they need to find a Miller from within one of their own draft picks, and frankly, I'm not sure either Devan Dubnyk or Jeff Deslauriers is going to be an NHL player, let alone a quality starter.

  25. Lowetide says:

    I think Hesketh may have turned a corner very late and Bigos seems to have a little buzz about him too. The knuckle-dragger remains a mystery.

    If I were to rank this year's draft crap for the Oilers, it would go:

    1. Magnum PS
    2. Anton Lander
    3. Toni Rajala
    4. Olivier Roy
    5. Troy Hesketh
    6. Kyle Bigos
    7. Cameron Abney

    and they sure didn't arrive in that order.

  26. PunjabiOil says:

    The Oilers have pulled useful D out of seemingly nowhere before, so here's hoping Hesketh is one of those late bloomers and turns into a fine 4th defenceman and surprises us all.

    Example?

  27. speeds says:

    I don't know much about Bigos, but I guess I was more referring to Rajala and Roy.

  28. PunjabiOil says:

    The Oilers didn't learn from the Geoff Paukovich blunder

  29. Lowetide says:

    PJ Oil: I think they did, for a time. But at least the Coke machines could play a little, this Abner guy is an extra from Conan.

  30. jon k says:

    Has Erik Haula gone yet?

    Seems like he could be a high reward late pick.

    Then again, how many left shooting Scandinavians can we draft?

  31. Deano says:

    Looks like the SJ strategy – if theres a decent goalie left. Pick him.

    LT – It look better when you reorganize them. Time will tell about the wisdom of Hesketh, Abney and Bigos where they were picked. Even Lander, everyone heard KP talk about the big upside and is thinking Zetterberg, but hes got a much better chance of being Niinimaki. (Obviously, KP knew Lander would be there, so we should have translated that to at least slightly off the board.)

  32. Lowetide says:

    Yeah, except that there were some nice players on the board when Abney was chosen. It's not even a Colin McDonald pick, we know what this guy is.

    Lordy. If it's a guy who Pat Quinn saw one night when he was watching the Giants I'll scream.

  33. uni says:

    PJO: Most recent to come to mind is Jan Hejda; traded a 7th round pick to get him. Not that the profiles mean anything but SportsNet pegs him as "filler" with potential to only be a "reserve defenceman".

    Also I don't think Staios was very high on most people's ratings, but he was a signing that turned in some solid seasons as a 4th D for the Oil.

  34. Cathe says:

    LT – have followed your blog for a while now and it's always a daily must-read for me. Thanks for all your insight and perspective. You got me hooked with your piece on Dave Lumley a couple years ago since he was my hero when he played for the NS Vees decades ago.

    Just thought I'd drop in and say I first saw Olivier Roy play against the Halifax Mooseheads when he was 16 and he amazed me then. Has some things to work on but the potential at such a young age was hard to miss. As an east coast Oil fan this is the highlight of the draft for me.

  35. kris says:

    "Magnum PS"

    Hahahaha.

    His theme song:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fdzRnS3VuY

  36. Lowetide says:

    Cathe: Thanks for the kind words and the insight. :-)

  37. Ribs says:

    …this Abner guy is an extra from Conan.

    Haha…Nice.

  38. jon k says:

    Bit of a slowdown in the draft's progress, no? Seems Calgary is talking to everyone to make space for Bouwmeester. Looks like they'll keep the D intact.

  39. jon k says:

    Kings take 5'8" Calgary Hitman forward Brandon Kozun with 28th in round 6.

    Stat line was 72-40-68-108 this past season.

  40. jon k says:

    Erik Haula goes to Minnie with the first pick of the 7th round. Boo.

  41. DBO says:

    As per gregor at ON:

    The Flames just traded Jim Vandermeer to the Coyotes for Brandon Prust. That opens a spot on the backend and brings in another NHL forward. That just saved them 1.75 in cap space. Vandermeer was making $2.3 while Prust is a .525 cap hit

    Read more: http://www.oilersnation.com/2009/06/live-blogday-two-nhl-draft/#ixzz0JeQdHZP4&C

    That clears some space for Bowmeester. man I hate Calgary. How did we not get his rights and deal Staios? So frustrated.

  42. Lowetide says:

    It's an innovative move by Sutter. Credit where due.

  43. Deano says:

    uni

    If you went looking through past drafts for guys like Hejda, he was not hard to find. Even easier when the scouts go to the World Championships every year.

    Who is the highest-drafted, and most developed Dman not yet in the NHL? He had played for the Czechs 3 times at the Worlds. The Oil saw Buffalo had him and did not have room for him.

    'Its not rocket-surgery.'

  44. DBO says:

    LT: i totally agree. That's what pains me. We seem unable or unwilling to make the move we want and get stuck with the ugly chick at the end of the night so we don't go home alone. i'd love to see some innovative moves by the Oil, but we seem unwilling or unable to do anything impactful. greatness requires taking a chance, and our roster does not make me think we are "fine". We have bitched for years about too many young guys and not moving pieces for big name players. and when we have a chance to do it, we scoff at moving our young players. LT, you have mentioned it many times, but youth does not win championships. I want a chanmpionship team not an 8th seed.

  45. Gerta Rauss says:

    Let's hope for a new day, an aggressive yet measured approach, inspiring ideas that alter the roster and give it shape and clarity.

    The Oil management obviously don't read this blog.

    Disappointing is all I have to say.

  46. Lowetide says:

    DBO: We're close (imo) to losing the top of the division for a few years now (VCR, CAL) and that will mean a few years of really good picks.

    UNLESS Tambellini can actually get a player who makes a difference AND address the dark underbelly (not enough NHL players) and get a goalie.

    But he hasn't addressed those things yet. Brodziak puts him behind last season's team imo, especially if Brule is in fact the replacement.

    But my guess is it'll be Pouliot.

  47. uni says:

    Deano: That's the point. I'm not saying they have special powers. I'm just saying they have a knack for picking up useful D that other teams obviously don't see (otherwise 28 other teams would have gotten Hejda).

    I'm okay with the Hesketh kid because of this, and the fact that he wasn't a blatant waste of a pick that Abney was.

  48. jon k says:

    We traded our 7th to Ottawa for something.

  49. Lowetide says:

    Gerta: That'll be the theme of my blog post tonight. :-)

    I need a few beer to work up to it.

  50. Gerta Rauss says:

    Heatley…?

    I keed,I keed

  51. Lowetide says:

    For a #6 next year (Ottawa's).

  52. Deano says:

    LT

    You don't usually add too many real NHL players on draft day. We have lost Brodz, but there is a whole summer to go.

    Based on how differently they are drafting this year, I doubt that they are too committed to the prospects that we have. Obviously more to come.

  53. Gerta Rauss says:

    I need a few beer to work up to it.

    …and a handful of qualudes and the Cowboy Junkines first album….

  54. kris says:

    Holy crap, why would Phoenix take Vandermeer. That's a terrible move. Just terrible.

  55. Lowetide says:

    Deano: The Oilers are so weak up the middle that trading Brodziak without cover is distressing.

    They have to make a move now, and unless they have Betts confirmed or some such it's a head scratcher.

    And Gilbert Brule doesn't cut it imo. Nice player, not ready to take on the role Brodziak had one year ago.

  56. Deano says:

    kris

    So Maloney can work for the Flames soon?

    Just thinkin' out loud.

  57. Lowetide says:

    Love the Cowboy Junkies. Saw them live 100 years ago.

  58. raventalon40 says:

    I'm pretty excited that the Oilers got Olivier Roy.

    I'm gonna start calling him OILivier Roy

  59. Deano says:

    LT – we agree – read my comment again.

    They have to move – but only by training camp.

  60. Lowetide says:

    Deano: Yeah, I re-read mine and it sounded a little confrontational. Sorry about that. :-)

  61. Bruce says:

    Love the Cowboy Junkies. Saw them live 100 years ago.

    LT: Was that at the Dinwoodie Lounge? I caught them there when they were (obviously) just beginning their rise to prominence. Gotta be the equivalent of Tier Two.

    I couldn't make out a word that Margot Timmins sang, and it didn't matter in the slightest. Fell in love on the spot.

  62. Lowetide says:

    Same here. She sang Sweet Jane and it was pretty much over.

  63. uni says:

    First time I heard Sweet Jane was on the radio at work in a gas station, I could barely make out a word but made a note to look up the Cowboy Junkies after my shift ended.

  64. Bruce says:

    I finally "come out" and I go and misspell Margo.

    Dinwoodie had/has? terrible acoustics, but it was an intimate setting and an awesome show.

    Margo Timmins puts the capital "S" in Sultry.

  65. Deano says:

    Lt how about another blog entry to get all the new comments consolidated? I suggest the title of 'Down the rabbit hole' or similar

  66. Chris says:

    The more I think about it, off the board or not I'm a fan of the Biggos pick. Late blooming giant defenseman that has the possibility of working out. Plus a name like Biggos? That's just awesome it sounds like he should be fighting Spartacus.

  67. Lowetide says:

    Deano: I'll do a wrap-up later but a very patient woman wants her lazy-ass husband to go for a walk. :-)

  68. DBO says:

    LT: are you at my home or something?

    Does anyone wonder if tambellini is going to do something really drastic? you know he wants to make a splash, he's been upstaged by arguably our two biggest rivals (Calgary and Anaheim), and he knows we have some problems. Moving brodziak makes no sense unless he has a centre in mind. Does this mean the Spezza rumours may be true? Or lecavalier? And is that a good thing? lots to ponder on my walk.

  69. Doogie2K says:

    Kings take 5'8" Calgary Hitman forward Brandon Kozun with 28th in round 6.

    Stat line was 72-40-68-108 this past season.

    Should've taken him in the third round instead of the goon.

    Should've taken him in the seventh round last year instead of the overage goon.

    Idiots.

  70. gogliano says:

    I like the goalie pick at this position. And as much complaining as there has been, the Oilers have picked up, perhaps by chance, one of the elite talents in the draft (umlauts). I think they had a good draft for that reason, though we might worry about what that 3rd rounder says about the management team going forward.

  71. Gerta Rauss says:

    @gogliano

    I was just venting earlier…I was expecting fireworks and dancing in the streets,and we got a diet coke and a pack of Mentos instead…

    All things considered,it has been a good couple of days.

    I think the Brodziak trade will look different once(if) we pick up a real 3C.

    And the Bouwmeester thing…disappointing yes,but these guys must have inside information that x player is/isn't going to sign with you…otherwise every other team in the league would have offered a 3rd rounder for his rights.

    On to July 1…we might get some fireworks yet.

  72. spOILer says:

    Well I hope the rumours that JBo's agent had said JBo is going to test free agency whether a pick was sent or not is true.

    Anyone know if Lander centres MPS's line?

  73. Gerta Rauss says:

    according to Gregor over a ON:

    More on Lander. He played with MPS in Timra, and was his centreman. He’s been the captain of the under 18 national team, and is very competitive. He admits he needs to improve his skating to play in the NHL, but like MPS, he will play in Timra again this coming season before heading over to North America.

  74. Coach pb9617 says:

    A bunch of you keep saying that this is okay if they get a real 3rd line center, and that this trade was made to get them a 3rd line center.

    Is there a problem with having a 4th line center that is also a real NHL player? One that can kill penalties? Win defensive zone faceoffs?

    Getting a 3rd line center and keeping Brodziak are not mutually exclusive actions.

  75. Gerta Rauss says:

    Coach:

    I was going to say something along the lines of we have too many bodies up front,and somebody had to go,but Gregor and Tambo say it better:

    http://www.oilersnation.com/2009/06/live-blogday-two-nhl-draft/

    I would have moved Pouliot myself.

  76. spOILer says:

    Coach>

    No, they're not. But they did acquire Potulny and Brule and need to make roster room if either is going to get a shot at the Bigs, not to mention where do you play Pouliot (if we add a real 3C and JFJ gets a shot)?

    Perhaps the Oil has decided they've seen Brodz' upside and would now either like to see the upside of Brule/Potulny or keep Pouliot?

    Or maybe Brodz wanted over a mill? Maybe the Oil felt they owed it to him to get real payday?

    Who knows? It's difficult for us to do anything other than speculate considering we lack info.

  77. knighttown says:

    From a trade point of view the draft has been spotty but from a draft point of view we got three of my 5 predraft "dream" players:

    Now on to my dream draft:

    1. Magnum PS
    2. Ryan O'Reilly
    3a. Toni Rajala
    3b. Alex Hutchings
    4. Olivier Roy or whichever goalie slides…

    I'm very pleased, wasted knuckle-dragger or not.

  78. Coach pb9617 says:

    Gerta,

    “We do need to change our line up a bit. We have too many bodies at forward. We are willing to give some people a chance that haven’t had a chance before."

    That is a really bad answer.

    Great, so they're giving Pouliot a chance, which they should have done in Cogliano's place last year, fine. But he's unproven in the spot. So even if they go and sign Betts on the 3rd line, they're back to two real NHL centers, right back to where they were last year.

    The Oilers are the cute puppy chasing his tail.

  79. Lowetide says:

    After my walk, I've decided (my poor wife had to listen to this, so do you):

    1. Brule will be cheaper
    2. Pouliot didn't have as much value
    3. Tambellini really is going to make the "culprits" pay. If you're an Oiler and were HS'd last season (Penner, Pouliot, etc) judgement day is coming.

  80. jon k says:

    Coach: Would it change your mind if Brodziak was asking for 1.1, 1.3, and 1.5?

    I think that we're making a lot of fuss over a player who was a 4th line centre on a poor team.

  81. Gerta Rauss says:

    making a fuss is what we do around here jon k….:)

  82. Coach pb9617 says:

    3. Tambellini really is going to make the "culprits" pay. If you're an Oiler and were HS'd last season (Penner, Pouliot, etc) judgement day is coming.

    Great. So they're making moves based on the raving lunatic's personal grudges. There is a reason Brule is cheaper – he's stinkier.

    Coach: Would it change your mind if Brodziak was asking for 1.1, 1.3, and 1.5?

    Depends on the term.

    I think that we're making a lot of fuss over a player who was a 4th line centre on a poor team.

    Cheap, outplaying real NHL players are required in a cap world. They are especially required on a team loaded with dead weight stuck at the cap.

    The team is better with Horcoff – Betts – Gagner – Brodziak than they are with Horcoff – Betts – Gagner – Pouliot/Brule.

    Period.

  83. Lowetide says:

    Coach: Agree. A Brodziak-Jacques-Stortini line would be better than a Brule-Jacques-Stortini or a Pouliot-Jacques-Stortini line.

    But Pouliot has an .825 cap hit and Brodziak probably had more trade value.

    They must get a useful center now, no ifs, ands or Buts.

  84. spOILer says:

    I think there are two things that make losing Brodz tough to swallow:

    1. Underlying numbers like ZoneShift.

    2. He seemed ike a dedicated Oiler, a team guy, always had try, and did whatever was asked of him. Tough to lose the coachable guys.

    I liked Brodz. But to tell you the truth, I wanna see one of the two centres in the minors get a shot, both are more physical than Brodz and both should be hungry. Potulny certainly had a good year toiling away, and hasn't lost faith yet.

    LT makes a good point, would Pouliot even have that much trade value?

    And like LT says, should Penner Nilsson, and Pouliot still be pretty nervous? I hope they are and I can live with losing all three. But with their present value, that's going to be tough. Like you said, trade Penner next year after he's had a chance to earn some value back.

    One exec apparently laughed at the rumoured notion that Nilsson could even pull Tootoo.

  85. RiversQ says:

    Coach pb9617 said…

    Great. So they're making moves based on the raving lunatic's personal grudges.

    I am going to attempt to get into this without it getting nuts. I feel like I need to state that at the outset…

    I have two points to make here about Penner and Brodziak.

    1) I'm pretty certain that some, or even a significant portion of their teammates held a similar view of their play. I would venture to guess that the veterans were on-board with MacT's first volley. After that, I can certainly agree it got out of hand.

    2) Upper management probably felt the same way. Actually, they definitely did because they allowed it to get out of hand.

  86. Lowetide says:

    RQ: Interesting insight. iyo, is it reasonable to suggest then that others who might be in that group (Penner, Pouliot, Nilsson) may also find their way out of town?

  87. Coach pb9617 says:

    I am going to attempt to get into this without it getting nuts. I feel like I need to state that at the outset...

    I'll leave it at this because I feel there's all kinds of stuff wrong with your POV, but this debate has been hashed more often than Baudelaire.

  88. Deano says:

    Here's a different way of saying it….

    The lunatic who made the talent play through the guys with 'try' is gone. Now its up to the talent to keep their jobs.

    In hindsight, it looks like the Oil are quite pleased with the Motin and Hartikainen picks from last year. They seem to have done more of the same and earlier this year.

    Heres hoping the Flames end up with less for their third-round pick than we got for one of ours.

  89. RiversQ says:

    Lowetide said…
    RQ: Interesting insight. iyo, is it reasonable to suggest then that others who might be in that group (Penner, Pouliot, Nilsson) may also find their way out of town?

    Yes, I would agree with that, but there's a new coach so I think the Oilers could go either way here. You can't look at this without going back to the money as well.

    Penner would be the guy most likely to get a solid fresh start based on his results and his size. However, he's drawing a big cheque and if the Oilers are determined to bring in someone at 15% of the cap, then he's an obvious option.

    You could argue Pouliot is least deserving of another shot of any of them, but he's still cheap. (Of course, being cheap didn't save Brodziak.) He's ready for a regular shift and they need cheap players somewhere.

    Nilsson appears to be pooched. He makes just enough to be worth dumping (a la Vandermeer in CGY), has some trade value, and has middling results.

  90. RiversQ says:

    Coach pb9617 said…
    I'll leave it at this because I feel there's all kinds of stuff wrong with your POV, but this debate has been hashed more often than Baudelaire.

    Actually don't do that.

    I'm more than willing to hear your points here. I could have my mind changed here for sure.

    You don't think that the veterans had any input or impact on Penner's treatment?

  91. Moose says:

    Great. So they're making moves based on the raving lunatic's personal grudges. There is a reason Brule is cheaper – he's stinkier.

    Coach – So the guys that got HS'd this year didn't deserve? Is that your argument? The implication there is that Tambellini didn't watch any of his teams' games and just took his cue from the coach he had to fire.

  92. Deano says:

    You don't think that the veterans had any input or impact on Penner's treatment?

    I sure hope not.

    Quoting Keenan after being ousted from Slats' and Messier's Rangers:

    'Players play. Coaches coach. Managers Manage.'

  93. RiversQ says:

    Deano: I'm not suggesting a player would tell MacT to trash them in the media or healthy scratch them.

    I do think it's plausible that some players were not happy with the corners they were cutting. (Yes, there were some corners cut.)

    It is 2009, and this isn't Scotty Bowman. Players do talk to coaches.

  94. Doogie2K says:

    I think that we're making a lot of fuss over a player who was a 4th line centre on a poor team.

    Or our third-line centre for next year, for whom we'd just spent two years of pro development time and were about to reap the benefits.

    In other news, apparently we sent our 7th this year to Ottawa for their 6th next year? I've never understood those sort of deals. Is there really that much granularity that you can say you'd prefer one over the other, as such, particularly a year out?

  95. Deano says:

    Riv,

    To my eye the team demonstrated extremely bad organizational behavior last season. MacT and Moreau seemed to be at the center of it. Therefore, MacT's doghouse is the wrong place to look for the culprits.

    Up was down, right was wrong. Abysmal decision making. A large odor surrounded the team.

    Its not Scotty Bowman, but it is Pat Quinn – at least for a little while. I do suspect that some asses will get kicked. Hopefully they are the right ones this time. Kicking the wrong ones did more harm than good.

  96. Coach pb9617 says:

    You don't think that the veterans had any input or impact on Penner's treatment?

    *sigh* I really don't want to get into this debate again.

    If the veterans had an impact on Penner, Nilsson, Pouliot and Brodziak's treatment, then MacTavish was a worse coach that I had previously considered. As a coach, you do not let players make decisions for you or your authority is toast. Any ability you have to manage and control players is completely undermined from that moment forward, because you chose to bow to a specific player, players or even a team vote, if that's the case. If he did that, he's just a terrible coach.

    Putting that aside, if it did happen, this influence becomes problematic. I'm not one to ever appeal to authority, and I can't stand it when people do this, however, if you are going to go to the coach and fire a teammate under the bus, you damn well better be able to back it up with your play on the ice. Considering the level of play from the veterans this season, I don't see anyone in the room that could've walked into the coach's office, closed the door and said "You have to scratch Nilsson, Penner, Pouliot and Brodziak, they're killing the team" other than Sheldon Souray and maybe Shawn Horcoff. If it's anyone else in that room, then they are giant hypocrites that have no standing to do such a thing and that should be obvious to an impartial observer or a manager.

    Which leads me to Tambellini — If he is basing his decisions on what a horrible coach and a handful of hypocrites pulled in the locker room last year, then the team has larger problems. He should recognize the problems that come from a coach doling out punishment on request from another player and move to fix the situation. If he didn't have a conversation with the prior coach about using the media as his GrudgeTwitter and tell him to knock it off, then he's not doing his job. If he doesn't make sure that the team will, in no way, shape or form accept players pulling this stuff on each other, he's not doing his job.

    Lastly, if indeed it was Souray or Horcoff that walked into Mactavish's office and said "scratch these four", I question their 'leadership' qualities and 'veteran' status. This should be managed in the room by those with standing without running to play tattletale. If I'm a younger player on the team and I watch this unfold, I do not want these players on my team, because I have no idea when they'll decide to shank my kidneys. It's also telling that they would only scapegoat those four — not Moreau, not Staios, not Hemsky when he disappeared. It doesn't take a big man to pick fights with easy opponents.

    As I step down from the soapbox, I'll say that I hold to my previous conclusions – lashing out at these players was the last desperate measure taken by a coach hitting bottom. It seems like in the down times, MacTavish has more locker room problems than most.

    Either way – yours or mine – it disturbs me greatly that the man in charge of personnel is basing his moves on this.

  97. Lowetide says:

    Coach: We don't know that for sure, really. I've put together three points:

    1. Tambellini fired MacT while saying
    2. Some of the people in the room were not going to get off the hook and then
    3. he traded Brodziak today.

    But I could also say:

    1. Tambellini/management decided to cull the herd up front and
    2. Pouliot and Nilsson have negative value and
    3. Penner is too much of a cap hit/has some uses so
    4. they traded Brodziak today.

  98. Deano says:

    Coach said:
    the man in charge of personnel is basing his moves on this.

    Even though we are arguing the same side, what evidence do you see to support this conclusion? Trading Brodziak is not enough for me to get there.

  99. RiversQ says:

    Thanks for the run down coach. You make some good points – particularly about a player running to the coach to complain about Penner/Nilsson/Brodziak/Bob Loblaw.

    However, I think I already said that's not how I would have pictured it anyway, so maybe I haven't outlined my position very well.

    I just think that if Souray, Horcoff or Moreau were unsatisfied with one of the players and were asked about it specifically, I think they'd say "Penner's cheating high" or "Brodziak doesn't get stuck in" or "Nilsson kills me when he doesn't get the puck deep when we need a change" or whatever. I think that's perfectly reasonable. Where MacT takes that info, is another deal altogether and I can't see how a teammate would be involved in the sentencing, so to speak.

    It's not running to play tattletale and it also doesn't mean they didn't approach the questioned players directly beforehand as well.

    Let's not be fooled by these players either. In each case, the injustice has much more to do with them being the best available option, rather than being truly exceptional performers. There is a difference and it means they aren't above criticism. This was not a good team this past year and I never saw them making the playoffs anyway and that was when I assumed MacT would handle the bench and poor roster with his usual reasoned approach.

    Anyway, basically I agree with a lot of what you said, but I don't think it takes something insidious for a teammate to have an impact on a coach's decision.

  100. Coach pb9617 says:

    Even though we are arguing the same side, what evidence do you see to support this conclusion? Trading Brodziak is not enough for me to get there.

    Deano – I'm going on Rivers' statements that those players are in trouble.

  101. bookie says:

    As much as giving Brodiak away seems like a bad move to me, perhaps there are underlying things that we are not aware of. Maybe he was sneaking cheesburgers to Penner and was keeping Nilsson out raving all night.

    Unless I see some kind of really dumb move, I am going to give the GM some leeway to make minor adjustments without passing too severe of a judgment on him.

  102. ian says:

    I liked Brodz, I thought the deserved a real shot at making the team, however the new staff have stated thatthe Oilers are going to be bigger and tougher to play against.This is a bottom six move that will allow the Oilers to get a bit tougher.
    I can not believe that any player walked into the coaches office and suggested what to do with other players, and anyway isn't that type of stuff usually handled via the assistants?

  103. RiversQ says:

    LT and Deano: Completely agree with that. We don't really know where the 08/09 HS crew stands with the management or their teammates. I just think it's plausible that there are problems there as well. We won't know for sure unless more of a pattern emerges.

  104. Coach pb9617 says:

    Where MacT takes that info, is another deal altogether and I can't see how a teammate would be involved in the sentencing, so to speak.

    Given what we saw from MacTavish last year, I think what you're saying is plausible. Souray says "I was out for two minutes because Nilsson didn't push it deep last rush" and MacTavish going round the bend is entirely possible.

    I still think it was MacTavish playing the cornered animal.

    But right now, If decisions are happening because of that as so many people are saying, and the entire picture isn't being being viewed, that's a problem. Moreau was shitty, Staios was shitty for half of the year and every time he got the puck below the goal line. Hemsky disappeared for 15 games. Why aren't they front and center in this discussion of problem children? Because the lunatic didn't go off on them?

    I'm just really confused on that point.

  105. Deano says:

    LT

    Tambo's comments about not letting players off the hook has to be said, or its the same as a 'get out of jail free card'. Which is what I suspect may have actually happened (for a very short time at least).

    To those talking about how much we have invested in Brodz, how much do we have invested into the other candidates – Pou, Brule, Schremp – yes Schremp, etc.

    What's the best move to create the environment for the talent to achieve? Retain Brodz over Pou?

    MacT's opinion carries no weight anymore.

  106. RiversQ says:

    ian said…

    I can not believe that any player walked into the coaches office and suggested what to do with other players, and anyway isn't that type of stuff usually handled via the assistants?

    Nor can I.

    With all due respect to coach, he's jumped to a bit of a conclusion there. I never said anything of the sort.

  107. hunter1909 says:

    Worrying about a plug named Brodziak?

    I prefer to "worry" about whether or not if any of the original talent remains in so many of the players that a certain recently departed coach of the near decade virtually destroyed.

    The very thought that Brodziak is a problem vis a vis the Oilers going anywhere boggles the mind. All I know about Brodziak was, he was supposed to be the third line center last season, and was crap. Worry about how he does in Minnesota all you like, but the Oilers have so many contracts that aren't doing whatever they're supposed to be providing to the overall scheme of a winning hockey team(that's 1990 by my own reckoning, last time the Oilers had anything like that), it's inevitable that some of these guys have to be moved.

  108. RiversQ says:

    coach said…
    Moreau was shitty, Staios was shitty for half of the year and every time he got the puck below the goal line. Hemsky disappeared for 15 games. Why aren't they front and center in this discussion of problem children? Because the lunatic didn't go off on them?

    Actually, I'd say Moreau's play was just pretty mediocre considering the context of his minutes. It was the penalties that were completely indefensible.

    I'm also not so sure Staios was truly that bad. Strudwick was a major boat anchor during the first half for him and it's no coincidence he looked more competent after that was resolved.

    Can't argue with Hemsky losing it. He was definitely off the rails although I'm not sure why.

    Anyway, I'm not so sure they aren't considered problem children by management. It's entirely likely that if they have a target group they want to get rid of, that it includes some of the HS crew and some of the other guys.

  109. Deano says:

    MacT had a personal bias to try over talent. The try guys were getting more opportunities and icetime (Reddox over Penner for 1LW, Pies over Pou for 3C).

    The talent guys were the disgruntled ones (even Hemmer). That is what needs fixin' – first-rounders that don't play like it.

    MacT took the stick to them and caused a revolution that got him fired.

    Resurrecting Pou, Rowbert and Brule is more important than Brodz.

  110. Bruce says:

    In other news, apparently we sent our 7th this year to Ottawa for their 6th next year? I've never understood those sort of deals. Is there really that much granularity that you can say you'd prefer one over the other, as such, particularly a year out?

    Doogie: Wonderful use of the word "granularity". Astronomers use that word if they are just able to resolve individual faint stars within a globular cluster against the background glow of the cluster's core. Pretty much describes drafting in the 6th and 7th rounds, where all the stars appear faint.

    As for resolving that trade, I'm gonna need a bigger telescope. Not for the first time today I'm left wondering WTF?

  111. RiversQ says:

    Deano said…
    MacT had a personal bias to try over talent.

    Sorry, I'll never accept that narrative.

    If that was truly the case, then Hemsky and Gagner would never have received all the opportunities they did as Oilers under MacT.

    The try over talent thing is tired and silly. Heck, we're talking about scratching Brodziak here, who doesn't exactly have a ton of talent and Nilsson whose own healthy scratches had way more to do with stupidity than effort.

  112. Marc says:

    Nobody seems to have mentioned the obvious reason for the Bigos and Abney picks – Springfield. While the big club was short of actual NHLers, it was pretty clear that Springfield was short of actual AHLers – guys who aren't ever going to make the show, but hold the fort while the potential NHLer's learn their lessons. If you don't have enough of these guys it actually hurts the development of your potential NHLers. Case and point – Chorney.

    I think the scouts were told this year to keep an eye open for guys they can send to Springfield to be part of the nucleus there. They found a couple they liked and used some mid round picks on them. I don't see why this is a problem.

    Basically they are saying that after they took Hesketh, there were no 'reach' picks they liked better than the guys they already have in the system, so they decided to go stock up the farm team, which is a major organisational need.

  113. Paper Designer says:

    Deano, Pisani is a more talented forward than Pouliot, and at thirty some-odd, I'd go as far to say he has a brighter future than Pouliot.

  114. Scott says:

    Nobody seems to have mentioned the obvious reason for the Bigos and Abney picks – Springfield. While the big club was short of actual NHLers, it was pretty clear that Springfield was short of actual AHLers – guys who aren't ever going to make the show, but hold the fort while the potential NHLer's learn their lessons. If you don't have enough of these guys it actually hurts the development of your potential NHLers. Case and point – Chorney.

    Abney sucks. A guy that has trouble making the lineup in the WHL is not an AHL player. He's probably not an ECHL player. Plus, he's not even allowed to play in the AHL/ECHL for another one or two years.

    As for Bigos, it's very unlikely that he's going to help an AHL team win games as a rookie coming out of the BCHL. Plus, he's already committed to going to college.

    Neither of those two have anything to do with the AHL team.

  115. RiversQ says:

    Scott, don't forget that if they actually cared about stocking the AHL club with this draft, they probably would have used their 7th rounder instead of dealing it.

    There's no excuse for wasting draft picks.

  116. Deano says:

    Riv

    It may be tired, but the evidence is there in Toby Peterson and Liam Reddox. His bias got more pronounced as time wore on.

    Paper Designer

    Based on Pisani's play last season I am not sure he has much in the tank anymore. It was far off his pre-illness levels. I hope that he can return to form, but have doubts. He certainly was a poor choice for 3C for the first quarter of a season. MacT gave the at-bats to him and Cogs who both had glaring holes in their game, but Pou never even got a sniff.

    Now both of you:

    Creating a team culture where first-round picks systematically underachieve is self-defeating.

    We need more than first-round picks to make the club, but we are pooched if the first-rounders don't carry the team.

    Deny it if you want, but even Hemmer objected in the press.

    MacT's message passed its expiry date and part of his team tuned him out.

  117. RiversQ says:

    Deano: I still disagree with you. I think the Oilers have had a lot of mediocre 1st round picks that not only didn't earn a job, but they didn't earn one despite many chances. Not to mention the fact that Hemsky, Gagner and Cogliano are all doing reasonably well anyway, all things considered.

    Hemsky's comments had absolutely nothing to do with how 1st round picks are handled. Heck, it's hard to tell exactly what he was complaining about, other than maybe his own role.

    For the record it was absolutely stupid for him to complain about his role, if that's what he meant. As you said, this team needs 1st rounders to carry it and since they've groomed Hemsky to play against the best, he should suck it up and shoulder the responsibility. If he's unwilling to be a true power vs. power player then he does in fact threaten the team culture.

  118. Ducey says:

    I think some of you are getting a little too worked up about all of this.

    Can't a GM move a 4th line centre early in the summer without getting roasted? Do we have any idea of who will be brought in to replace him?

    I doubt it. How about waiting until we see what the team looks like before coming up with elaborate conspiracy theories?

    The team is going to get tougher to play against. Its not a shock that this might mean a shuffle in the bottom 6 is it?

    As for J-Bo, some seem to assume that he is already a Flame. I doubt he will be, but won't worry about it until he is.

    Finally, no mention of Pronger? I find it interesting that he was traded for essentially the same package as the Oilers got.

  119. jon k says:

    I think it's a bigger issue than some here would admit if Hemsky goes to MacT and says he doesn't like Penner floating around while Hemsky is routinely getting worked in the corners or end boards.

    Especially if Hemsky is getting concussed or injured in the process, and we specifically brought in a Penner to play with Hemsky.

  120. Deano says:

    Riv

    Not once have I said that MacT was wrong for his methods to motivate what I refer to as the talent. Not only were his methods no longer was working, they were actually de-motivating other players that were not part of the problem (Hemmer).

    MacT's dominant skill is building bottom-six forwards 'out of a kit'. (He makes chicken salad out of chicken shyte.) At the risk of upsetting you, that skill is better suited in a development league – the AHL. He is a teaching coach.

    This team is now a 'have' team financially. We are rumored to be going after the big-game FAs. We need to be able to make the most of them. (What can he do with actual chicken?)

    The fine line is that we do not want to create an environment of entitlement for first-rounders.

    Playing Reddox at 1LW down the stretch was the height of MacT's poor judgment for me.

    From where I sit, he let it get personal between himself and Penner and himself and Pouliot. He lost his objectivity.

    In no way shape or form is Brule a mediocre pick but he is actually doing worse here than he was in Columbus. The problem is not this player its this organization.

    MacT made no effort to motivate players. He actually said he did not feel that it was part of his job. Yet, the team has many under-performing first-round picks. He has no problem with the later round picks. How many players have to pass through and have MacT hang goat horns on them before we allow the real problem to be named so it can be fixed?

  121. Scott says:

    This team is now a 'have' team financially. We are rumored to be going after the big-game FAs. We need to be able to make the most of them. (What can he do with actual chicken?)

    What top-end free agents did MacT wasted? The man made some strange decisions over the last year but I don't think he wasted many top talents. I honestly can't think of any. He gave Chris Pronger big minutes and responsibility, ditto Cole, ditto Hemsky, ditto Souray, ditto Visnovsky. What big talent guys has MacT sewered? Pouliot, Brule and Schremp? Maybe those guys just aren't all that good.

    As for Brodziak, with Todd Richards in Minnesota he's going into a great environment. I think Brodziak going to Minnesota is as much about them asking for him as us shopping him.

  122. bookie says:

    Deano said…
    MacT had a personal bias to try over talent.

    Sorry, I'll never accept that narrative.

    If that was truly the case, then Hemsky and Gagner would never have received all the opportunities they did as Oilers under MacT.
    .

    Hemsky and Gagner were two of the biggest 'try' guys out there so your point really doesn't actually defeat the argument made by Deano.

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