Get Z!
This is Henrik Zetterberg. There is no earthly way he is available this summer or any other, but there might be an opportunity for an NHL team to acquire some of Detroit’s very best talent in August.
Detroit–a team that always has someone ready to step in–has been bleeding quality so far this off-season. The number of players who have made their exit from Motown this summer is approaching phenomenal: Marian Hossa, Jiri Hudler (maybe), Chris Chelios, Mikael Samuelsson, Tomas Kopecky. That’s a lot of talent.
And we know the Red Wings have plenty of young talent bubbling under, but lots of teams have that and those players take time to develop and contribute (why I feel it necessary to tell Oilers fans this is beyond me).
Plus the number of truly aged men who are on the downturn and signed to contracts for 2009-10 is alarming: Tomas Holmstrom, Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby, Chris Osgood and even though he does not age like mortals, Nik Lidstrom.
Don’t get me wrong: the Red Wings have won two pennants in a row, have a system bursting with talent and a wonderful group of players in their prime: Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen, Valteri Filppula, Niklas Kronwall, Daniel Cleary and the hits just keep coming.
However, the Wings have some holes. Lidstrom can’t go on forever and they have some contracts that are dear along the blue: Brian Rafalski ($6M), Brad Stuart ($3.75M). They also have some guys making a lot of money up front but the money is more wisely spent at forward.
I’ve been reading about the Red Wings lately (Jim Devallano’s book Hockeytown) and Ken Holland usually makes moves in two’s and three’s so after the Hudler decision comes down I imagine they’ll be extremely active. There are some useful free agents available (Tanguay, PJ Axelsson, Manny Malhotra, etc) and of course there is the trade route.
The Oilers have several players who are Red Wing “types”: Shawn Horcoff, Sheldon Souray, Ales Hemsky, Lubomir Visnovsky, Tom Gilbert, Denis Grebeshkov. Others. Should the Red Wings want to move salary in order to sign some free agents to improve overall depth of actual NHL players, there may be a window of opportunity for a team like the Oilers. It might involve a package that brings in a Brad Stuart and sends away a Sheldon Souray, but there may also be a chance to acquire a Filppula, a Franzen or something else very good (but short of Zetterberg).
Don't even tease the suggestion of the Oilers acquiring Zetterberg, even if you say clearly there's no chance. It makes me dream unrealistic things.
Mostly because I think he would be exactly the player this team would want to complete their top line (Z can play LW or C). Talented, hard on the puck, good at both ends of the ice….the list goes on.
He's in my group of the best five forwards in hockey right now (in order: Crosby, Ovechkin, Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Malkin).
I know. I spent a decade thinking of ways to get Fedorov to the Oilers and now it seems Zetterberg has stepped in.
What about Franzen? Would they move him?
Is Pavel Datsyuk short of Zetterberg? If I am dreaming, what does he and Hemsky look like on the first line? And better what does he cost?
Maybe: Horcoff +
Datsyuk is at the peak of his value this season. I'd prefer Z anyway, but Datsyuk is certainly not going anywhere either.
The only truly bad contract on the team seems to be Stuart, and I'm not picking on him because he had a porr finals, I thought that was a bad deal.
Draper and Maltby are done as useful players I think, but htey aren't costing a bomb, and I'm sure they'll end their careers in the same jersey (then again, I said the same thing about Madden).
In any case, I have a sinking feeling that the Oilers will end up trading good players for Stuart and Hudler. Let's hope not, but damn, would it surprise anyone at this point?
The Red Wings will figure out a way to send Edmonton its overpriced guys so the Red Wings can afford Dany Heatley in a far more reasonable deal than the Oilers conjured up.
The smart money says the Oilers will make the dumb decision.
What about Franzen? Would they move him?
After just signing that contract? Nah.
I think this one is a non-starter, LT.
This crew is whale-hunting. Heatley, Marleau, Richards…maybe St. Louis — these are the names you should be looking at over the next month.
Gut feeling is Franzen doesn't move, because they love him especially in the playoffs. Some of their old fossils are pretty close to the end and will be off the roster soon. Detroit is tight against the cap this coming season, but they have a fairish bit of space after that point.
Leave Helm and Ericsson alone.
If anyone trades for Hudler they are crazy. Holland has written him off as going to Russia for a couple years (at least), and honestly with $5 million a year tax-free and whatever else they throw at players (free apartment, car, utilities, harem, whatever) I don't blame him.
If they can get a cheapish free-agent forward before training camp, I think that might be the only move they make. Otherwise they seem pretty much set.
(I meant Detroit getting a cheap free-agent pickup before training camp. They would prefer to leave Justin Abdelkader in Grand Rapids for another year playing 20 minutes a game instead of five or so on the 4th line, but he might win a spot out of training camp as the best option anyway.)
I wrote an article recently on my site http://oilersinsider.blogspot.com/2009/07/waiting-for-left-overs-detroit-red.html
about a post I read out of Winging it in Mowtown that said that the Red Wings would never move Franzen, but they might move Holmstrom who does a lot of the same things and similar to a Ryan Smyth.
You have to think the Oilers might be interested at that price tag, the amount of time left on his contract and what he does. Gritty LW, gets garbage goals but good for at least 20 a season when healthy. They've been missing a guy like Smyth ever since he left.
Except Homstrom looked slow and out of place all playoffs.
It looks like one of those cases where all of a sudden the game is too fast. It's amazing how it can happen almost overnight.
I'd be willing to take that risk even if he has slowed a step. He's literally sits in front of the net and doesn't let people move him, he's good on the powerplay, draws penalties, and is only a $2.25 cap hit. With one year left on his deal and the Oilers find out he's not worth re-signing, they simply don't.
Holmstrom had a bad knee in the playoffs, which accounted for some of his slowness (no surgery required, just rest in the offseason). He's a tough bugger, though – if his arm fell off and was flopping around on the floor, he'd use a roll of duct tape to reattach it at the shoulder and still go right out in front of the net to tip pucks.
Vic: if the Stuart contract is their worst, that's not so bad at all.
3.75 million for a second pairing stay-at-home guy who makes a decent first past would fall into "market value" in my mind. If that's your team's biggest contract issue, you've done pretty good for yourself.
You know a way for us to bring some patience to our our chair gm'ing is to consider how long it will take for Sam G to be a better first line C option than Horc. When that happens, the universe will be in alignment, and all other things being equal we are a contender. SG is a pretty competitive guy, I would bet he thinks he can win that job this year (he's not close) but if he can push it. Get some playoff experience. maybee next year?
Holmstrom is one of those running-on-empty types that I'd expect the Oilers to overpay for now and really overpay for later when he's proven to be pretty much done.
Holmstrom had a bad knee in the playoffs, which accounted for some of his slowness (no surgery required, just rest in the offseason). He's a tough bugger, though – if his arm fell off and was flopping around on the floor, he'd use a roll of duct tape to reattach it at the shoulder and still go right out in front of the net to tip pucks.
He sounds very Ryan Smyth (though he's never put up the same raw numbers as Smyth did in his peak), but he's also five years older, which makes me very leery, given his player type. I sure wouldn't give up a Ryan Smyth package, even given how that package has worked out so far (one talented but questionable player, one unquestionable bust, one draft pick still in development)
Detroit, New Jersey, Columbus…
If I wake up and hear we've made a trade with any of those teams I'm going to have a very bad feeling that it was a good trade for the Oilers. There's probably more out there too, especially teams loaded with grit, possibly Toronto; I just don't know if I can stomach the thought of getting worked over by that loudmouth again.
The one player on Detroit that could be worth a flyer though is Filppula. He can PK, he's biggish IIRC (6'1?), and he can win draws.
Pretty hefty price tag, but then again he wouldn't be getting much for cherry minutes in Detroit.
Anyone but Stuart off that roster, IMO. I don't think he's all that useful as a say-at-home guy, his mobilty is even more suspect than Souray's and that's an awful contract for what you'd be getting.
Holmstrom… don't we already have a tough as nails guy in the same mode by the name of Dustin Donuts?
And as far as the Hemsky line debate in the last thread goes, and filling that hole, I've always been of the opinion that you need a matched pair on a line: if a passing centre, then a sniper winger, if a shooting centre, then pair with a playmaking winger. I don't find that play-making wnger pairs as well with shooting winger. For eg, Iginla in Calgary suffered when paired with a passing winger and a two way centre.
Fill out the line plan with a physical O'Reilly type who can dig the puck out of corners, cycle, provide zone possession and buy your talent a little space.
And as much as I love Horcoff, that is unfortunately the set-up we have now, and looking to continue with the acquisition of a sniper winger.
Really Hemmer should be paired with a shooting centre (like Peter McNab), and Terry O'Reilly.
The one thing about Hemsky that isn't mentioned nearly enough, and hell it might even be why Quinn started talking about him while asked about who would be the #1 C, is that from the defensive z one out, he plays like a C. He carries the puck (usually with speed), distributes the puck, and he doesn't even always come down the wing to do it.
With Horcoff there, the perfect compliment for the line is a LW who can find soft ice and doesn't like to lug the puck.
I honestly think O'Sullivan is a good option there.
This Price kid is getting lit up by the Jays right now. We all took about what a crap shoot the NHL draft is… the MLB is in a whole different league.
I got money on Tampa. Tallet will give up a 4 spot soon enough.
Not much baseball to like tonight betting wise.
I'm debating a play on Baltimore U3.5… but Lester fucks me every time I bet on him in by blowing up in the first inning.
I already have 11 bets on the go – all MLB.
So in other words a perennially bad team(Oilers) stays rotten by trading away it's half assed decent players for Red Wings expendable players, all the time while they(Red Wings) get to keep hold of their elite ones.
So Oilers might as well be the 21st century California Golden Seals.
Nice.
Hanson and the Braves at +120 is probably the game I like the most.
I only bet team unders in baseball… sitting at +21 units on the season, 104-85-21 record.
Don't like Atlanta's bullpen much. Hansons's sick as a dog too, otherwise I'd be on Brewers U4. Still might get on it, but not very likely.
They would probably move Lebda or Holmstrom but not their core players like Z or Franzen – they just made major commitments to them. Datsyuk is not only an untouchable, he's just unmentionable. I can guarantee he will retire a Red Wing.
PDO, Hemsky actually usually criss-crosses to the opposite wing. And then usually has to wait for linemates, the play then goes static and dies. That line definitely needs improved structure.
The Red Wings plan on signing a free agent forward or two sometime between now and mid-September, depending on their prices, to fill up the $1.5-1.6 million in cap space they possess.
They will not go after a player like Tanguay because the Wings have no desire whatsoever to rid themselves of core players like Franzen, Filppula, or Stuart.
There will be no trades and the Red Wings will NOT kindly help a team like Edmonton because they're desperate.
–George Malik
George: I think there are happy children in a park near you. Maybe zip over there and burn it down.
Not sure why people think it would take much to get a Holmstrom and how it would hurt the Oilers.
He's got one year left on a contract that pays him $2.25 million. The Wings need to clear some cap space and wouldn't require much in return. It would be more a dump than anything else to allow them to make other moves.
Oilers have few other options and Holmstrom would give them at least that.
Oilers wouldn't be mortaging anything to get him IMO.
You and Chelly would make a fine defensive pairing, LT
Well he's younger but I'm patient.
LOL
Any chance we get our hands on Kronwall?
That guy imo is exactly what we need on the backend, Stuart is prone to too many grenades, and no hope offensively at this point.
The Oilers don't need Holmstrom. Penner is more than adquate in the standing in front of the net role.
Just ran to the store to get some beer. Have to lubricate to make watching the Eskimos palatable.
Turned on the radio to listen to Bryan Hall call the game.
When he's excited, you would swear that its Abe Simpson calling the call.
I was waiting for "gimme 5 bees for a quarter you'd say"
Zetterberg at center with Hemsky – that would be an absolute killer line. All Penner would have to do is stand in front of the slot and screen the goalie while Hemsky and Zetterberg dazed and confused the other five opposition players on the ice.
Probability of this happening? probably less than zero but, still, dare to dream…
The one player on Detroit that could be worth a flyer though is Filppula. He can PK, he's biggish IIRC (6'1?), and he can win draws.
I love Filppula too. He wouldn't see to many cherry minutes here either though with 10 & 89.
3M/yr signed until the end of 2013 and a very good 3C/ penalty killer.
Wonder what it would take?..
Would you do Cogs straight up?
Is Ricky Ray any good? I'm serious here.
Eskimos…yuck.
Hugh! We need you back NOW! What a mess.
I think Ricky Ray developed a drinking problem….Or else not having the space he used to enjoy and receivers that can run is catching up to him.
Off topic:
There's not a single athlete I hate other than Ricky Ray. I don't hate Pronger. I don't hate Comrie. But boy, do I 'hate' Ricky Ray.
I remember him sulking on the bench in the 2005 playoffs, when Maas came from behind and cleaned up his mess in 2 consecutive games. Great team player.
Get Jason Maas in there.
This is a huge drive in this game.
Is Prefontaine hurt?
I think Stegal nailed it when the feed from the field wasn't working.
Ray just isn't intense, and isn't a leader.
He's a very accurate passer, but not a hard thrower. He is unable to force it into coverage on a dot, the ball moves too slow.
Without the luxury of receivers who get separation on a regular basis, he is not a good quarterback.
Well [Cheli]'s younger but I'm patient.
I find that hard to believe. That Chelios is younger, I mean. Wasn't he a Montreal Wanderer at one point?
I wonder how long the Oilers will wait to address their needs up front? My guess is sometime in the next 10 days.
They'll do so when Heatley gives them an answer, either way.
Do you believe Heatley will say no, LT?
PJ Oil: If I had to bet today it would be that Heatley approves the trade.
I think I know what the plan for the Eskimo secondary is.
1) Drop back too deep into your zone, giving at least 5 yards to the nearest man
2) Break late on any pass
3) Miss 1st two tackles
Rinse, repeat.
Jonte Buhl is not good enough to be a professional football player.
If I started a website called "Roasta Maciocia" would they come?
Blue Jays blow an 8 run lead and lose in the 12th. lol
PJ Oil: If I had to bet today it would be that Heatley approves the trade.
That's what I'm thinking to. Several qualitative factors support this belief:
1. There would have been no reason for Steve Tambellini to hold a press conference on July 3rd and state that Heatley still hasn't said no.
2. Paul Kelly's comments a few days ago suggested Heatley would ''seriously consider'' playing in Edmonton.
3. Denis Grebeshkov's contract was for 1 year because the Oilers wanted to maintain ''flexibility'' for the current year – according to Denis's agent.
4. There is no interest from teams around the NHL for Heatley, to an extent the offer would exceed the Oilers offer. The relationship between Ottawa and Heatley appears to be weak, with Dany not even returning Daniel Alfreddson's phone calls.
5. The new DVD package are demonstrating respect and consideration. Possible effective recruitment tool
Of course, on the contrary, there is evidence Heatley may say no.
1. Kevin Prendergast explicitly stated:
"I think we've given up hope on the Heatley scenario; but, I guess it's not dead in the water. But, at this point, it looks like we'll go to camp with the same team we finished with last year outside of a new goaltender."
"I think at this point, it's pretty evident what's going to happen. But, we haven't closed the door on the whole issue yet."
______
Some would argue that this comment was done to put pressure on Heatley. Mixed signal, for sure.
2. If a deal is agreed upon to another team, likely one that was on his orginal 10 team trade list, Heatley to Edmonton falls apart.
We'll see what happens. I have absolutely no problem with this team, because high-end talent is scarce. The Cogliano's, Smid's, and Penner's are much easily replaceable.
I really hope it happens
Yeah, agreed. I'm STILL not in favor of it but have resigned myself. Thankfully the Eskimos have woken up.
Wow…, well, I'm actually thinking the opposite. I think the longer this drags on, the least likely Heatley becomes an Oiler. And I don't think Heatleys says no, he just never says yes and this helps his PR.
I really expect one of the teams on Heatley's list to finally manage to make some cap space, somehow.
And I think we end up dealing Smid/Cogs for an upgrade in another direction.
And yes… damn nice to see the Eskimos fially show up for this game.
I think the longer this drags on, the least likely Heatley becomes an Oiler. And I don't think Heatleys says no, he just never says yes and this helps his PR.
That's possible too.
Or maybe Heatley has already said no – it just hasn't been made public. This argument could be supported by Prendergast's latest comments.
Anyone have an idea how the Boston/Kessel situation plays out?
I thought they were moving Ward to make room for Kessel, though they would be awful week on the back end. But then they signed Morris.
They have to move a significant player to make room and get back under the cap again.
A Cogliano for Kessel deal seems awful advantages for both teams.
Yeah, agreed. I'm STILL not in favor of it but have resigned myself.
I really enjoy your selective use of reverse psychology.
PunjabiOil said…
Or maybe Heatley has already said no – it just hasn't been made public. This argument could be supported by Prendergast's latest comments.
I think that Heatleys camp is just waiting out the Oilers. Once Tambellini finally tells Murray the deal is off the table, or he makes a different trade, then this forces Murray to start seriously considering the next "tier" of offers.
As long as the Oielrs are in play, Murray can't seriously look at other deals. Everythink hinges on Tambellini pulling out or Murray finally giving in and taking what he can get. I just don't see him moving that way until the Oilers finally give up.
Coach: How can I convince you?
… and I think the Oilers are very close to giving up (strengthened by KP's comments), but I think they are having a hard time finally doing so knowing how close they came. I think they had set a deadline, then decided to make one last effort, which includes the videos.
… and I agree with Lowetide. I expect the Tambellini to pull the trigger on a different trade within the next 10 days.
Damn Roughriders.
Gregor had mention in a post at ON that there has been a rumoured 3-way deal involvig EDM-OTT-SJ.
Where is this coming from, anyone know?
Coach: How can I convince you?
Nono. I see that you think Heatley is going to be an Oiler. But I also see into your motives for believing so.
Very tricky you are.
Well San Jose hasn't turned over any of that roster and they promised the fans changes.
There's a ton of players I'd like (Clowe, Michalek) and of course they'd certainly love to see Heatley in teal.
We know what Edmonton isi giving up (Penner, Cogs and Smid) and the Sens (Heatey) have the best player in the deal.
So who comes to us from San Jose?
This crew is whale-hunting. Heatley, Marleau, Richards…maybe St. Louis — these are the names you should be looking at over the next month.
There is no way 13 is in play if the Oilers end up with Marleau.
San Jose is in cap hell. There is limited flexibility to acquire Heatley, when they have ~5-6 players to fill out the roster with.
A Cogliano for Kessel deal seems awful advantages for both teams.
I'm on board for that as well.
Horpensky backed up by O'Sullivan-Gagner-Kessel is just fine.
Besides the boys in the front office get there #81, just a year late.
2 questions: -is Kessel affordable? -and is he the answer to any of the current roster questions?
BTW – you could save alot of angst over Ricky Ray by joining the dark side and cheering for the Stamps. Don Matthews pushed me here and it has been a happy landing.
Cheering for the Stampeders is impossible. It's like rooting for Satan.
Anyway, Kessel is going to want the moon.
Lowetide said…
There's a ton of players I'd like (Clowe, Michalek) and of course they'd certainly love to see Heatley in teal.
What about Marleau and Clowe?
Ottawa: Penner, Cogliano, Staios ($8.1)
SJ: Heatley ($7.5)
EDM: Marleau, Clowe ($9.925)
We get to keep Smid, get Clowe for long term and 1 yr of Marleau (with he and Penner off the books next year). May need to bury Nilsson.
Ottawa gets Penner and Cogs, plus more experience on the backend.
SJ gets Heatley long term in plave of Clowe and about $2.5mil in cap space with Marleau off the books. Maybe Ottawa even has to toss in another cheap prospect?
Only time I'm cheering Go Stamps Go is when I'm in McMahon after Freddy puts on a show.
What a huge win.
PDO: HUGE win today. Roughriders D took a beating too. A good day.
To add to my above post; we also get Staios off our books.
We can even throw Shremp to SJ, and add in Ottawa's cheap prospect, then SJ deals Cheechoo to the Isles for a prospect or two.
LT:
Oh, it's a good day. A great day, even.
I just don't think I can feed her enough booze to fell safe while I'm sleeping tonight
BTW:
"Sorry for interrupting you Gord…"
"Oh, that's okay, I work all winter with a guy who does that all the time…"
Easily one of the funniest things I've ever heard from a PBP guy.
Cheering for the Stampeders is impossible. It's like rooting for Satan.
Kind of my feelings about cheering for Matthews. But, as I said, once you get pass the gag reflex it tastes pretty good.
Kind of my feelings about cheering for Matthews. But, as I said, once you get pass the gag reflex it tastes pretty good.
That's what she said…
Back from the Everton/River Plate game at Commonwealth. Just a tremendous display of football (soccer).
Flyers sign Tollefson
MyGawd there is no way Detroit will separate from Franzen or Filpulla. These are Detroit projects who have turned legitimate NHL players, Franzen very likely an All Star. If Detroit were going to entertain losing those two, they would have done it early enough to keep Hossa.
LT, you say that Lidstrom can't go forever. So far, there is no evidence of that.
The Red Wings have been supposedly on the downslope and about to disassemble their team for about a decade. Yet you wake up the next season and by god they won another President's Trophy and Sergei Fedorov is getting seven million a year to play on the fourth line in Bismarck, North Dakota because somebody bought into the player rather than the team.
Back from the Everton/River Plate game at Commonwealth. Just a tremendous display of football (soccer).
Glad somebody went to that. I'm in Vancouver after catching the Whitecaps and Puerto Rico Islanders last night, which set two personal records (one for "longest lightning delay" and one for "wettest I have ever been, including swimming pools"). It's been a good weekend to be a Canadian football fan.
Don't forget the loss of Conklin… the Wings would have been SOL without him during the regular season last year.