Grebeshkov Files for Arbitration

Word tonight Denis Grebeshkov has filed for arbitration. It’s good news in that an offer sheet is no longer an option. It can be bad news in that the process can get ugly. The story naming him is here. Same story also lists Brodziak.

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63 Responses to "Grebeshkov Files for Arbitration"

  1. mjsh says:

    The good news is that confirms he wants to stay an Oiler. The bad news is what does he want to sign?

    Now where is that 3rd line centre? Unless Cogs stays and suddenly learns how to take faceoffs, there still is a problem there. I see Peca is unsigned, wonder what it would take to bring him back.

  2. jon k says:

    Brodziak going to arbitration might shed some light on things.

    His numbers and defensive work might make for the argument that he should be making closer to Pahlsson or Malhotra money (~$2.50) rather than the token raise to $1.0.

  3. Bank Shot says:

    Anyone want to bet Brodziak scores 40+ points for the Wild this season?

    I can see why he thinks he's worth money since he is used to the Oilers way of doing things where having a pulse gets you a $2 million dollar per season contract.

    Grebeshkov probably wants Gilbert money seeing as how their stats lines were really similiar last season.

  4. mjsh says:

    I think Grebs has more potential than Gilbert. I was on the trade Gilbert bandwagon last summer. I think he was another overpay

  5. gogliano says:

    How many RFA years does Grebs have remaining? He'll still be an RFA after an arbitration contract, correct?

  6. PDO says:

    Gogliano:

    Yup, believe he has 3 left, but that's just off the top of my head.

    … hopefully Tambs is better at this than Lowe was.

  7. quain says:

    I don't know what Grebs is looking for… Gilbert got $4M a year, but gave up a couple years of UFA. The rumors of $3M per year for his RFA years sounded fair to me.

  8. PDO says:

    Has anyone thought:

    Maybe there's a deal in place, but the Oilers think there's a risk that they'll go over the cap by too much if he's signed due to a potential deal. Thus they made an agreement to the deal and Grebs going to arbitration just ensures nothing silly happens?

    Could be a show of loyalty by Grebs for giving him a shot.

  9. Coach pb9617 says:

    Zajac goes to arbitration as well and should get north of four million per. I like when Lou has problems like this.

  10. jon k says:

    Zajac could get 4.5 from an arbitrator I think. Not too much separating him from Horcoff money at this point. Good for him.

    Grebeshkov's agent is going to make hay at arbitration. He killed the middle opposition at ES this year and he definitely has a case to make more than 3.5.

    I wouldn't be unhappy to see him locked up to a Gilbert contract.

  11. Coach pb9617 says:

    Grebs getting 4 mil per forces Tambellini's hand. That would put the defensive cap hit at ~$24,000,000 [assuming Smid gets $1,250,000]. Trading Smid alone in any deal isn't nearly enough.

  12. boopronger says:

    scrolling hf and people are happy now because no team can sign him Grebs to an offer sheet. I asked this in the thread at HF, can a team still sign him to an offer sheet as long as it comes before his arbitration hearing?

  13. Lowetide says:

    boopronger: speeds will be along (or he might post something at his blog) but I don't think the window for offer sheets is open yet.

    Once one side asks for arbitration they're married for the year (or two, depending on the option chosen by the club) unless the team decides to walk away from what they believe is an unfair price.

    I think that's right.

  14. Bruce says:

    What happened to the "imminent" three-year deal, I wonder?

  15. PDO says:

    Are there any trade restrictions that come from arbitration?

  16. Scott Reynolds says:

    Zajac could get 4.5 from an arbitrator I think. Not too much separating him from Horcoff money at this point.

    I don't think that Horcoff's contract wouldn't be considered a relevant comparable. I would be really surprised if Zajac was able to convince an arbitrator of 4.5M but I haven't looked at any relevant comparables.

  17. bookie says:

    Maybe there's a deal in place, but the Oilers think there's a risk that they'll go over the cap by too much if he's signed due to a potential deal. Thus they made an agreement to the deal and Grebs going to arbitration just ensures nothing silly happens?

    You would think that things like this would happen in hockey given that its a very small group of players and it is a team sport, but my experience is that 'special agreements' are very rare. I guess it is because agents act as a detached individual that care no more for your team than any other team.

    The only 'special deals' I can think of are when the two old guys on the Ducks took a half year off so that their families would be happy and so that Brian Burke could play with bigger numbers.

  18. mc79hockey says:

    You can start making offer sheets on July 1. Nobody can make one to Grebs now. He can be traded, even though he's been offered arbitration. Zajac can't use Horcoff as a comparable. Any more questions.

  19. PDO says:

    What are the rules for com parables? I'd assume Zajac to Horcoff doesn't work because Horcoff's contract is a strict UFA contract..

    So how does Gilberts work? He only gave up one RFA year and 5 UFA years IIRC.

  20. robert cleave says:

    Zajac can't use Horcoff as a comparable.

    Krejci and Bolland, perhaps?

  21. Scott Reynolds says:

    Here are some guys who might be comparables for Zajac who signed one, two or three year deals at about the same point in their careers:

    Pierr-Marc Bouchard, 1 year, 2.6M after 2005/2006

    Lee Stempniak, 3 years, 2.5M after 2006/2007

    Mike Cammalleri, 2 years, 3.35M after 2006/2007

    Nikkolai Zherdev, 2 years, 2.5M after 2005/2006

    I don't know how many comparables one needs but I'd try to use these guys and shoot for 3M. They could probably use Parise (3.125 over longer term) as well.

  22. DBO says:

    I believe comparables can only be in the same year you go to arbitration. believe it was done that way since economic times can change. So it's based on comparable guys who are of similar age and "results". Not sure who GRebeshkov would be able to use, Cam Barker would have been one so who knows there. Mayeb Scuderi? Although he wa a UFA and more of a stay at home guy, but he got $3.4 per year. Leopold got $1.7, Aucoin got $2.25, Zanon $1.9, Oduya $3.5, Spacek $3.8. based on those veteran dmen signing, I can't see grebeshkov getting more then $3.5 mill per year.

  23. Scott Reynolds says:

    For Grebeshkov, the Oilers could try to use:

    Jay Bouwmeester, 2 years 2.175M after 2005/2006

    John-Michael Liles, 2 years 1.325M after 2005/2006

    Joni Pitkanen, 1 year 2.4M after 2006/2007

    Christian Ehrhoff, 3 years 3.1M after 2007/2008

    If we're only talking about 1 or 2 years, I think the Oilers can realistically shoot for something between 2.75M and 3M.

  24. Bruce says:

    Might get interesting if somebody makes an offer sheet to Smid.

  25. DBO says:

    More important is who elected not to go to arbitration. Must be a big list since only 20 players elected to go. off the top of my head players I would want:
    Brandon Dubinsky (my pouliot)
    Phil Kessel (cause he wants more then his comparables)
    Jack Johnson (see above)
    Drew Stafford
    Boyd Gordon
    Josh Harding (still would like to have him instead of JDD)

    Not that i want another offer sheet, but it gives us some options for trade partners who can't afford these players.

  26. robert cleave says:

    I see that only one of the Chicago Six (Seven? Eight?) filed for salary arbitration. That was Allan Walsh's client Aaron Johnson.

  27. bookie says:

    Looks like the Oilers are getting serious about the AHL and making use of the Roadrunners (we all knew they were paying to keep them for some reason).

    Looks like Oklahoma is the likely local.

    I think this is a good bit of news for player development.

  28. spOILer says:

    DBO said…
    More important is who elected not to go to arbitration. Must be a big list since only 20 players elected to go. off the top of my head players I would want:
    Brandon Dubinsky (my pouliot)
    Phil Kessel (cause he wants more then his comparables)
    Jack Johnson (see above)
    Drew Stafford
    Boyd Gordon
    Josh Harding (still would like to have him instead of JDD)

    Not that i want another offer sheet, but it gives us some options for trade partners who can't afford these players.

    Not really. We would need to send cap back. If they can't fit these players on the roster, how are they going to afford the salary we'd be sending back?

    We have far too much deadweight signed to make a deal. I keep hoping that we can swing something with PIT since they're so cap-screwed. Bring in Staal for about the same deal as Heatley, because that would fix most of PIT's holes and cap issues, as long as they can hide Cogs' DZ face-offs.

    But considering we'd need to then sign Kotalik… we'd still be pretty screwed without finding the dump Sal deal that doesn't seem to be out there.

    KOTA HORC HEMS
    GAGN STAA OSUL
    MORE POUL PISA
    JACQ BRUL STOR
    REDD
    MACI

    VISH GILB
    GREB SOUR
    STAI PECK
    STRU

    KHAB
    DESL

    Assuming Kotalik signs for $3M and Grebs the same, that's a $55.2M cap hit and still needs Nilsson to be dumped and an el cheapo and risky Pouliot/Potulny option at 3C (or Staal to 3C and one of these two to 2LW).

    In other words, damn improbable all around.

  29. Scott Reynolds says:

    I keep hoping that we can swing something with PIT since they're so cap-screwed.

    Pittsburgh looks to be in fine shape with respect to the cap. They have a few big contracts, some pretty decent money coming off at the end of this season (Gonchar, Eaton, Guerin, Fedotenko) and their top guys locked in. They're well-positioned even if the cap falls after this season.

  30. eetu says:

    By looking at last years numbers (fifteen players filed for arbitration, two of them weren't signed before the meeting and went through the process), I don't think there's much risk that it would "get ugly".

  31. DanMan says:

    I have this wierd feeling that Kovalev will sign a one-year in Detroit

  32. Mr DeBakey says:

    Assuming Kotalik signs for $3M

    There is no way on God's Green Earth the Oilers pay Kotalik $3 million per season?
    They wouldn't.
    They couldn't.

    $3 million over two maybe?

  33. DanMan says:

    I don't think Pat Quinn is going to be a huge fan of Grebeshkov. Quinn was a hard nosed tough-as-nails d-man when he played and still was a factor offensively.

    Its not that Grebs doesn't have the size, he's gotta start outmuscling guys in his own end.

    That goes for Tom "King of the Second Assist" Gilbert, too. When you are 6'3" 215 you gotta throw the body around once in a while. Maybe he just isn't very strong. Teams like Vancouver and Chicago will take note this year, and try and rule the boards with their big wingers.

  34. uni says:

    I don't think Pat Quinn is going to be a huge fan of Grebeshkov. Quinn was a hard nosed tough-as-nails d-man when he played and still was a factor offensively.

    I think you're mistaken. While Quinn may like the physical D, he's not biased against good skilled D as well. I think Kaberle pretty much proves that.

  35. godot10 says:

    //That goes for Tom "King of the Second Assist" Gilbert, too. When you are 6'3" 215 you gotta throw the body around once in a while. Maybe he just isn't very strong. Teams like Vancouver and Chicago will take note this year, and try and rule the boards with their big wingers.//

    Lidstrom and Rafalski and Gonchar and even Bouwmeester don't punish anybody. Those Gilbert second assists are a sign of his defensive zone clearing ability with a good pass.

    Gilbert most of last year with a wonky back, and arguably played the toughest minutes or 2nd toughest minutes over the course of the year.

    Gilbert, in terms of age and ability and value, is the most valuable defenseman on the Oilers.

  36. Coach pb9617 says:

    Yeah, the "hit someone" meme doesn't have legs around here.

    Niedermayer, Keith, Timmonen, Suter, Martin, Lidstrom, Scuderi, Gilbert, Visnovsky are all extremely successful defenseman who don't "hit someone" and manage their zone extremely well.

  37. Master Lok says:

    DanMan,

    You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

  38. Woodguy says:

    That goes for Tom "King of the Second Assist" Gilbert, too. When you are 6'3" 215 you gotta throw the body around once in a while.

    You sound like Robin Brownlee.

    He's wrong too.

    Being able to make the first good pass to start the transition to offense is often the source of the 2nd assist.

    So is keeping the puck in the O zone and hitting the open man with the pass as opposed to dumping it to the open corner.

    I don't know why people devalue those skills that are critical to scoring and overvalue body checks which often have no result on changing any given play.

    Good physical defensemen are needed and have thier place, but to devalue a good, smart, puck mover like Gilbert because he doesn't hit is ridiculous.

    Lidstrom has won the Norris trophy 6 times and he rarely throws a hit. Positioning, a good stick and skating are key to that position, not body checking ability.

    Yeah, the "hit someone" meme doesn't have legs around here.

    Niedermayer, Keith, Timmonen, Suter, Martin, Lidstrom, Scuderi, Gilbert, Visnovsky are all extremely successful defenseman who don't "hit someone" and manage their zone extremely well.

    Pretty much bang on.

  39. Traktor says:

    "I like defensemen that have bite. If you're going to come into our zone then you have to pay the price."

    - Pat Quinn

  40. Doogie2K says:

    Being able to make the first good pass to start the transition to offense is often the source of the 2nd assist.

    To elabourate, I think the problem is a lot of people are conflating the sometimes-superfluous second assist that a forward who had little to do with the play gets with the second assist a defenceman gets for starting the transition. On that note…

    "I like defensemen that have bite. If you're going to come into our zone then you have to pay the price."

    - Pat Quinn

    "It's a game of transition."
    - Pat Quinn

    He's been banging on about good first passes ever since he was hired. I don't think I need to dig up specific quotes; I think you can find them on your own.

  41. spOILer says:

    Scott,

    NHL numbers has PIT at $53.7M cap hit, while needing a top 6 winger, 3-4 Dman and a backup goalie.

    They could technically run with what they have and just sign depth players, hope to pick up what they need at the deadline, but that is still pretty cap-screwed, IMHO.

    And after this season, they will still need to fill the holes left by Guerin and The Tank and Gonchar at equivalent cheap rates. Them's is some pretty big holes going forward.

  42. spOILer says:

    Mr Debakey said:

    Assuming Kotalik signs for $3M

    There is no way on God's Green Earth the Oilers pay Kotalik $3 million per season?
    They wouldn't.
    They couldn't.

    $3 million over two maybe?

    When I'm trying to budget out cap cost, I don't assume the best of all possible scenarios from the K.Lo.T. Besides, I let the Federal Reserve and the Bank of Canada do all my blue-skying for me, hehehe. Heh.

    I usually take what I'd sign him for and add $500k leeway in case. And in my case, it would be a one yr deal.

  43. godot10 says:

    One of the common propositions put forth in Ottawa about the decline of Spezza and Heatley and the Ottawa Senators is the steady loss of puck moving defensemen who were replaced by bangers with lead hands.

  44. Coach pb9617 says:

    There is no way on God's Green Earth the Oilers pay Kotalik $3 million per season?
    They wouldn't.
    They couldn't.

    $3 million over two maybe?

    There is no way on God's Green Earth the Oilers pay Khabibulin $3.75 million per year over four seasons?
    They wouldn't.
    They couldn't.

    $3.75 million over two maybe?

    Oh.

  45. Jon says:

    These is no way any team offers Gaborik 7.5 million per season

    They wouldn't
    They Couldn't !

    Oh! Right…

  46. Oilman says:

    Interesting hire of Chabot by the Oilers. I can't find anything regarding coaching experience on his resume. Factoid: He shared the IHL MVP in 1999/00 with Nik Khabibulin.

  47. PDO says:

    Kovalev signs in Ottawa, where they only had $2,000,000 cap space…

    Heatley deal done?

  48. Scott Reynolds says:

    NHL numbers has PIT at $53.7M cap hit, while needing a top 6 winger, 3-4 Dman and a backup goalie.

    I don't really think they need the top 6 winger. They have 13 forwards signed already and their top two lines probably comprise Crosby, Malkin, Guerin, Kunitz, Fedotenko and a Revolving Door (Talbot, Dupuis, Kennedy). They probably need to sign two depth D and a backup with 3M to spend. At least for this year, they should be fine.

    The next season they have about 12M coming off the books with seven slots to fill including two wings and two top 4 D. They can paste in two wings at a 2M average, two D at a 2.5M average and three extras at a 1M average. That seems pretty reasonable to me and that's if the cap stays stagnant. If the cap declines, they'll have less to spend, but so will everybody else. If they absolutely feel like they need to move someone, they have the advantage of having expensive players who are desirable. I think the Penguins are pretty well-positioned for the next two years. Far from "cap-screwed."

  49. kris says:

    Yeah PDO, the Kovalev signing certainly means Heatley has to go before the season starts. Ottawa's about 3 million over the cap w/Heatley, now.

    I'm not sure they'll be willing to take a salary like Penner's back now either. (Not that we'll land him.) I'm betting it's Heatley for picks and prospects.

    And I'm gonna predict he goes to either Dallas or St. Louis.

  50. Moose says:

    Yup, that kills it on both ends.

    Oilers would have to take Smith's contract and/or bury someone in the minors. No way Ottawa can take Penner, and there's no way the Oilers can do it without moving that $4m +.

  51. Steve says:

    So Vancouver signed Raycroft. I'm hoping that this means that they're getting rid of Luongo, but it probably doesn't.

  52. Traktor says:

    Remember that Jeremy Williams kid that Grapes was also harping on the Leafs to play more?

    I was just surfing on BTN and Williams had some interesting numbers:

    11 games played
    0.05 QC
    2.84 PTS/60
    3.32 GFON/60
    1.90 GAON/60
    + 1.42 differential

    Tiny sample size but no wonder Cherry was crying foul.

  53. pboy says:

    CFP's performance at the press conference in Philly to introduce him was as douche-tastic as I expected. He feels that Philly is the perfect place for him and he looks forward to finishing his career there.

  54. Jonathan Willis says:

    Oilman: Chabot was a goaltending consultant in Europe and most recently with Hockey Canada. He's seen a lot of Olivier Roy.

  55. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Barker, Cam Chicago Chicago $9.25M 3 $3.083M
    Fraser, Colin Chicago Chicago n/a 1 n/a
    Johnson, Aaron Chicago Chicago n/a 1 n/a
    Eager, Ben Chicago Chicago n/a 1 n/a
    Brouwer, Troy Chicago Chicago n/a 2 n/a

    All but Versteeg.

  56. DanMan says:

    Some of you guys here on LT sure like pussy euro hockey.

    If you don't wanna see defencemen hit, maybe you should find a team in the KHL or SEL to cheer for.

    This is the NHL, and having 1/6 defencemen not hit is ok. But to have 3 soft puck-movers doesn't help the team as much as having one and 2 punishers.

    Big Vish is so good with his stick, I don't care that he doesn't hit. But Grebs and Gilgs can't handle the size and tenacity of the power wingers. The sooner they are traded for a big top-6 scorer, and tough D-man, the better fas as I'm concerned.

  57. Doogie2K says:

    This is the NHL, and having 1/6 defencemen not hit is ok. But to have 3 soft puck-movers doesn't help the team as much as having one and 2 punishers.

    Holy shit, someone better tell the Red Wings before they win another Stanley Cup.

  58. DanMan says:

    Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, and Lilja all hit. Lidstrom and Ralafsk don't. Thats 2 out of 6, not ideal, but not as bad as 3.

    But thats not what won the cup for the wings. The best two-way forwards in the game won the wings a cup. Osgood was integral as well. Babcock and the puck posession game really got them through the Anaheim series, where they could've been run out of the rink.

    Pittsburgh hit them this year, physicality and a tenacious forecheck helped them beat the Dead Wings.

  59. uni says:

    Doogie2K: Obviously the viciousness of Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Ericsson has gotten past you.

    Also don't forget the killer 3/4 of the top four on the Sharks of Boyle, Erhoff, and Vlasic that skated alongside Blake.

  60. DanMan says:

    Yeah, the Sharks' D was well-suited for playoff hockey.

    Just got cycled to death by the big Anaheim forwards, thats all.

  61. DanMan says:

    I'm glad you said that.

    Erhoff and Vlasic are a cheaper, arguably better version of Grebbert.

  62. Doogie2K says:

    If anyone wore down the Red Wings, it was the Ducks. They barely survived that series, and had very little break from then on out. It didn't seem to me that Pittsburgh was being any more physical than most NHL teams; just that the Wings were more beat-up from the get-go. Remember, they had a few injuries going into that series, thus the whining about the fast turnaround.

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