Springfield Falcons 2009-10

By my count 47 players suited up for the Springfield Falcons in 2008-09. The count goes like this: 4 goaltenders, 14 defenders and 29 forwards make up the original group.

The number of players who have been set free this summer is large (Mathieu Roy, Tim Sestito, Dany Sabourin, Sebastien Bisaillon, Carl Corazzini, Tyler Spurgeon, Guillaume Lefebvre, Stephane Goulet, Shane Willis, Mike Gabinet, Hans Benson) and the number of men incoming is also large (we’ll get to it in a minute).

Among those who will not be on the Falcons to start the year is the skinny kid in the photo (Jordan Eberle) who’ll be in the WHL or playing with the Oilers this fall.

Here’s a list of players who are possible Falcons. This has been a frustrating “moving target” so please let me know of any errors. This post will be followed by the beginning of the “reasonable expectations” posts as we count down to August, the end of summer holidays for Oilers management and the time when they apparently begin to address needs for the coming season. Ahem.

Where possible I’ll list their major league salary and RFA/UFA date.

GOALIES
  1. Devan Dubnyk $700,000, rfa 2010
  2. Bryan Pitton $541,666 rfa 2011

I don’t have anything on Perugini or anyone else so assume the Falcons have two goalies and will probably bring in an AHL vet to help Dubnyk.

DEFENSE

  1. Alex Plante $875,000 rfa 2012
  2. Taylor Chorney $776,666 rfa 2011
  3. Josef Hrabal $675,000 rfa 2010*
  4. Johan Motin $612,5000 rfa 2012
  5. Theo Peckham $585,000 rfa 2010
  6. Cody Wild $585,000 rfa 2011
  7. Dean Arsene $500,000 ufa 2010
  8. Matt Nickerson $500,000 rfa 2010
  9. Jake Taylor AHL veteran
  10. Bryan Young AHL veteran
  11. Jordan Bendfeld ECHL

A couple of notes: I know Guy Flaming has stated the organization bought out Josef Hrabal but he’s listed on the official site and at capgeek so I kept him on the list for now. Also, this isn’t a depth chart, in fact the D that Springfield will rely on (Taylor, Arsene, Peckham) are close to the bottom here. The blue looks terribly inexperienced again and some of these fellows could be headed for Stockton with Bendfeld.

FORWARDS
  1. Rob Schremp rfa
  2. Ryan Potulny rfa
  3. Ryan Stone rfa
  4. Ryan O’Marra $821,666 rfa 2010
  5. Bryan Lerg $737,500 rfa 2010
  6. Slava Trukhno $662,222 rfa 2010
  7. Geoff Paukovich $603,333 rfa 2010
  8. Milan Kytnar $563,333 rfa 2012
  9. Chris Minard $550,000 ufa 2010
  10. Colin McDonald $550,000 rfa 2010
  11. Charles Linglet AHL veteran
  12. Jamie Bates AHL veteran

For these purposes I’m not including Gilbert Brule and Liam Reddox is apparently gone too. Oilers will no doubt be adding some forwards before fall.

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87 Responses to "Springfield Falcons 2009-10"

  1. Mr DeBakey says:

    I'd think they would sign Guillaume Lefebvre.

    I've typed it before, and others disagree, but Plante will spend time in the San Joaquin Valley this coming season.
    [Is Beukebeum a good Comp for Plante?]

    There was talk earlier that the'd use Aaron Sorochan to back up Dubnyk. There's been nothing further on that and he wasn't at the rookie camp.

  2. 40oz says:

    Guy listed this as his lineup a couple of weeks ago and it looks pretty goo to me:

    Minard – Stone – Potulny
    Trukhno – X – Schremp
    X – O'Marra – McDonald
    Lerg – Paukovich – Kytnar

    Do Bates and Linglet fill those two X's?

  3. oil dude says:

    Tencer's July 22nd twitter entry:

    Stauffer: Oilers interested in Wyatt Smith and Eric Boguniecki for AHL depth.

    I believe they stated on air that the Oilers were "close" in negotiations with these 2 players and expected to get one of them signed, and this was after the Bates/Linglet signings.

  4. Peter says:

    Minard-Potulny-Trukhno
    Linglet-Stone-McDonald
    Lerg-Kytnar-O'Marra
    Bates-Paukovich-

    *Peckham
    Arsene-Chorney
    Taylor-Wild
    Nickerson-Plante
    Young-Motin
    Gabinet

    Dubnyk-vet or Pitton/Perugini

    Schremp won't play for this team. He'll be plucked off waivers, or in Europe somewhere, or in Edmonton (unlikely). Peckham deserves to be in the show, but we'll see if they make a spot for him or not, or if there's an injury. Out of the forwards, the only one that might make the big club is Stone, but I think he'll probably be in Springfield as he never even got a sniff of the NHL last season after we picked him up from Pittsburgh.

    This team will be better than last year, but that doesn't say much. Hopefully they will compete for a playoff spot, but their division is probably the toughest in the league with Providence, Hartford, Portland all fielding strong clubs. Manchester is pretty good too.

  5. DanMan says:

    Wow, thats a lot of depth on the back end.

    LT, if everyone's healthy, do you see the Oil starting the year with 8 d-men knowing that Struds can play 4th line LW in a snap?

    I would rather see Peckham start the year in Springton, but I could see us carrying 8 as well.

  6. Jonathan Willis says:

    Fun question: what has O'Marra done to this point in his career to be considered ahead of Paukovich?

  7. digger says:

    I have to agree w/ Peter, any depth chart for the Falcons should be built with the caveat that Schremp has at least a good chance of not being a part of it.

    He'll likely not make the Oilers out of training camp barring a major improvement in his skating over the summer (yeah right), but he'll likely not make it through waivers either…and if he somehow falls through those cracks, there's always Europe or the KHL to take a year's respite in.

  8. hunter1909 says:

    Schremp needs to play center. WHY THE FUCK do the Oilers whine about not having centers, then draft them only to try to develop them as wingers?

  9. DanMan says:

    J-Willis: WJC gold, and fromer 1st rounder.

    That 05 draft is starting to look worse by the year. The guy who went after O'Marra, Alex Bourret (the tank on skates as he was called) has also not played a single NHL game in 4 years.

    I think the Oil should take a flier on him. His skating is somewhere between Schremp and Potulny, but he has sandpaper and decent hands. I'm pretty sure Phoenix didn't qualify him because he's been cursed with injuries.

  10. hunter1909 says:

    Then on the other hand, it's July. Why do I even bother you guys with these posts?

  11. oilerdago says:

    So DanMan, how do you really feel about Schremp?

  12. DanMan says:

    I feel he is a talented offensive player with great hands and superior vision. He is a step slow, but I find speed to be the most vastly overrated skill at the NHL level. There just aren't many goals scored off the rush anymore.

    I would much rather have a slow player with excellent vision and passing skills, one that can set-up in the offensive zone and put the puck in the right spots, than a speed demon with no hands and limited offensive awareness.

    Are you ever going to lose a game beacuse of Schremp's skating? Of course not. But you might win a game because of the offense he creates.

    I don't really care that the armchair scouts don't think he will ever be a good player, I just hate when it gets personal and people say things like "he has no heart". And when they say "look what he did in Springton: Nothing".

    What did he do when he was here? 3 points in 3 games playing 8-10 minutes. What do you want? 6 points in 3 games?

  13. quain says:

    Best of luck to Rob Schremp this season.

  14. HBomb says:

    Center, winger – does it matter with Schremp?

    Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson have all blown past him, and Eberle is closing fast, with MPS now on the track as well.

    Anyone who still believes he is a legit option for the Oilers this year needs to look again – where exactly does he fit into this lineup?

    Answer: he doesn't.

  15. kris says:

    DanMan,

    Schremp only scored 7 goals for the Springton Cockatoos this year.

    I bought a cute little bunny today. If I read 'Schremp' one more time, I'm gonna kill jab a hot needle in it's eye while saying look at what DAn Man did to you bunny! (Kidding, of course. Don't turn me in to the ASPCA.)

    BTW, If you're looking to dream about star players from junior with great skills, who are floundering in the minors, but who might really come through and become a star, we do have Brule too. Just a suggestion.

  16. Scott Reynolds says:

    Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson have all blown past him, and Eberle is closing fast, with MPS now on the track as well.

    Everyone already conceded that he's a step slow, so of course he's not going to do well on the track. What does a track meet have to do with his ability as a hockey player? Try to at least make a relevant critique!!!111!!1

  17. Yeti says:

    Schremp a step slow? That's an understatement. He looks like he's got a canoe wedged up his ass. As for that not being a serious problem: well, he just got seriously creamed playing against the softs in a year of AHL. You honestly think that isn't going to be a liability at an NHL level? There's a reason that other GMs aren't interested in Schremp. (and as for playing a good game against Vancouver: Reddox, Potulny and Brule also had their good games right after being called up, but there's this consistency thing which tends to catch up once the adrenaline has passed).

  18. HBomb says:

    DanMan: where the hell is anyone getting personal with the guy? It's all about results, and that "one game in Vancouer" is not the rule, but rather than the exception.

    It's all about sample size. Those "positives" that the Schremp Brigade are outweighed by the fact the guy produced at a very mediocre level in the AHL this season.

    Once again, I ask the question – who's spot on this team is he going to take? We've already got seven guys in the mix for six spots on the scoring lines (Horpensky, Kid Line Three, O'Sullivan) – Rob Schremp is all of a sudden going to blow past not one, but two of those guy?

    It's not going to happen.

  19. Peter says:

    I don't think the problem is just his skating or that he has no heart. No heart is a bit of an exageration, but it's true that he's a bit slow, plays a small man's game, and doesn't have a lot of tenacity. He also is known for only playing in one zone, and he isn't as much of a goal scorer as he was in junior.

    What you're left with is a guy who has tremendous hands, but doesn't go to the net, doesn't score ugly goals, stays out of the corners and floats around the perimeter. He'll be great on the PP, but he's a defensive liability. I don't know about the claims about his attitude and his supposed selfishness, but with his hot-dog shootout moves, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I think he could be a good point producer with the right club, but I doubt that that club is the Edmonton Oilers. Also, his performance last year in Springfield says a lot about his character. He should have been a leader out there, and instead he packed it in when they were out of playoffs. It's understandable, but he doesn't sound like the kind of guy a team will win with, unless he's surrounded with many Mike Richards'.

  20. Jfry says:

    also, i wouldn't say that nilsson has "blown" past shremp. seems like everyone here wants him to be sugar's linemate next year, which by my eye…i'm pretty sure RS could have 30-40 in the show and be benched for lack of effort, no problem.

  21. Peter says:

    Remove that apostrophe off Richards…

    Also, I agree with Hbomb. With Horcoff, Hemsky, Cogs, Gagner, Sully, and then Penner and Nilsson, who will Schremp pass? He's certainly not passing any of the first 5, and Penner is still around cuz he has size and no one will give us anything for him due to his contract. Schremp is like a Nilsson clone, except Nilsson is 100x faster and feistier as well. And all the talk is about getting rid of Nilsson. Schremp is just another guy who lit up junior and can't make the same offensive impact in the bigs, and he doesn't play a complete game so as to ensure himself a spot. It's too bad for the Oilers and for him that we didn't deal him last summer after he had a solid 2nd AHL season. We probably could have gotten a mid 2nd round pick for him then. (Apparently that was the asking price at the draft this year, with no takers…)

  22. kris says:

    You went and did it. I killed the bunny. I now have three kittens ready to go. After that it's a baby polar bear.

    :)

  23. RiversQ says:

    DanMan: The rush has little to do with it. The first part of being a team that is difficult to play against is having a team that gets to the puck first. The Oilers should want players that are always around the puck. Being a step slow will always be a problem and the guys that are haveti get pretty creative.

  24. quain says:

    The MSM got George Bush and Rob Schremp! It's a travesty! Don't they know? History's greatest heroes!

  25. HBomb says:

    DanMan: This has nothing to do with the Edmonton media or MacT (he may have been out to lunch on Penner, but he didn't see anything in Schremp that a lot of other people couldn't see, outside of the prospectophiles on HF).

    The guy has got some serious deficiencies and is a lesser version of the type of player the Oilers have on their roster in abundance. You have yet to answer the question as to where he fits into this lineup and whom he displaces.

  26. Mr DeBakey says:

    This Schremp thing has a
    Obama-was-Born-in-Kenya
    quality to it.

    And its just as tiresome

    Fact – a 12 to 30 game trial would not have magically turned Robbie into an NHLer.
    Fact – Craig Mactavish did not ruin Robbie's career. Most of the decisions about Robbie’s career have been made by the Oiler’s Traintrust not MacTavish.
    Fact – Robbie does not have a snowball’s chance in hell of playing for the Oilers this coming winter – He is behind Nillson, Potulny and Eberle, also Paukovich, Mcdonald and Minard.

    This document is not a “Birth Certificate”; it’s merely a “Certificate of Live Birth”

  27. DanMan says:

    HBomb: as I stated in the last thread: The reson he could stick is the salary cap.

    Schremp at 700 K may be more attractive to Tambellini, Quinn, and Renney than Nilsson at 2.2 mil.

    We have been getting our ass handed to us by the cap lately, and this would be a prudent move to pluck some feathers of the cap-albatross that hangs above us.

    Again, are the Oilers ever going to lose a game because of Rob Schremp?
    NO

    Could they win a game because of Schremp?
    THEY ALREADY HAVE

    If he is so bad at getting to the puck, how did he produce offensively? I don't give a shit what he did with the Falcons. If you guys wanna watch Falcons games, go ahead, I watch Oiler games.

    And do you really think a line of Schremp-Gagner-O'Sullivan will be playing dump-and-chase? I'm sorry but nobody on that line has a physical presence at this point.

    And this "lack of compete-level" garbage. What, you guys hate him because he doesn't water-ski on the backcheck like "minor-penalty" Moreau?

  28. quain says:

    Schremp at 700 K may be more attractive to Tambellini, Quinn, and Renney than Nilsson at 2.2 mil.

    That's one. You need two.

    Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Sully-Gagner-Cogliano

    The other option is Cogliano continuing at 3C to make room for Schremp at wing, but lord that's just a terrible idea… and if that were the solution, I need someone to explain to me why we'd call up Schremp instead of Polutny.

  29. Peter says:

    Dan Man:

    Are you part of Schremp's immediate family? Most of us are just assessing his talent, performance, etc, rather than 'getting personal'.

    I would compare Schremp to a smaller, slower, and less skilled Jason Spezza – a guy who has given away several pucks in his day and cost his team games. Could the Oilers lose a game because of Rob Schremp? Yes. Could they win a game because of Rob Schremp? Yes. The question is though, is this team best served by having Rob Schremp on the roster for years to come, and the answer came last year when they sent him to Springfield for a 3rd season, after having a solid 2nd AHL season. The only people that still talk about this guy are people on blogs, like ourselves. GM's have no interest in him, unless it's for a 4th round pick or less.

    Also, your view of the AHL is disheartening. If we ever hope to build a good team here, it will be by developing our prospects in the AHL. Only elite prospects can effectively make the jump straight from junior/college, and we have no elite prospects outside maybe Paajarvi, who is playing against men in Sweden in one of top 3 leagues outside the NHL (KHL, AHL, Sweden). Our best hope for Schremp is he goes overseas and has a great year like Omark did last year, we retain his rights, and we deal for next year. I think we'll lose him on waivers though, to a team like Philly or Pittsburgh that could use a young, cheap, top-6 winger. Or maybe Toronto.

  30. Smytty777 says:

    No way Schremp makes the current roster. However, we should keep in mind that it is only July and the roster is a long way from being established.

    If the Heatley deal goes through, DanMan might have a point. It will be down to Nilsson vs. Schremp/Potulny, with the latter two on very manageable contracts. I could see Nilsson being in trouble if Heatley comes to town as salary will need to be reduced.

  31. DanMan says:

    Mr Debakey-damus: I agree, even if he had 11 points in 12 games, or 28 points in 30 games, he wouldn't be an NHL player.

    Points aren't what win you hockey games. Compete level wins you hockey games. We all know that. The last 3 years have shown us that it is much better to have a real heart and soul guy like Toby Petersen or Liam Reddox in the top-6. Those guys play HUGE.

    MacT didn't ruin his career, but he certainly had a hand in absoultely obliterating his asset-value. (The TSN rant was, to me, the lowest point in this organization's proud history. Bashing a minor-leaguer publicly. No organization has ever done something that malicious to a kid.)

    Why wasn't he traded in 07, after finishing top-10 in AHL scoring as a 20-21 year old on a shit team?

    What was the long-term plan for Schremp at that point. What did K-Lo and MacT see in him that made him fit in their long-term plan?

    Oh, I'm sorry, K-Lo and MacT having a long-term plan? I must have drank too much Oiler-Aid!

  32. kris says:

    If he is so bad at getting to the puck, how did he produce offensively? I don't give a shit what he did with the Falcons. If you guys wanna watch Falcons games, go ahead, I watch Oiler games.

    I'm not gonna talk about you-know-who. (Killing that baby polar bear was reallly emotionally draining.)

    But I do want to address the above quote.

    Look Dan Man, you seem nice, so forgive me for being blunt. But in the above quote you explicitly say you're not even going to address the argument of people who disagree with you. You don't argue, you really just say: 'Whatever man. Screw the Falcons. I watch Oiler games byatch. Falcons suck. Oil RULEZ!'

    That sort of thing might settle a heated shouting match between you and a drooling pseudo-cowboy from Calgary over whether "Kipper" is awesome, but it really doesn't cut the mustard here.

    It's LT's blog and I can't stop you from posting, but I can ask you to be a bit more analytical and a little less of a fan. I think most people come here for analysis, humor, and not to here a guy rooting for his favorite players. Save that for the arena.

    Don't get me wrong. I think you can add to what goes on here, you're just not doing it today.

  33. R O says:

    Points aren't what win you hockey games.

    Quite right, outscoring wins hockey games.

    I don't follow the Oilers prospects but based on commentary here it seems that Schremp could not outscore (or score for that matter) at the AHL level. So what does it matter if he has "great hands and superior vision"? Players take many different paths to NHL success. The one thing they all have in common: they achieve success! Rob Schremp has failed at the AHL level. Forget his name or his pedigree – he failed at the AHL level. What more indictment is needed?

  34. hunter1909 says:

    Eberle isnt closing in on anyone. He's a kid and if for some idiotic reason they even dream about playing him to NHL standard competition this year maybe it's time I just start following the real growth sport MMA.

    MPS or whatever his nickname is, might be a great player, but he also might end up another tank of a player without hands. Ethan Moreau maybe. Woo hoo, and he's not going to make the team out of camp for the same reasons as Eberle, or close enough.

    Nilsson? Please, don't make me laugh. Nilsson MIGHT rebound then again what's he rebounding from? He's never really done anything special in the NHL, in how many games? This Nilsson is tailor made for Sweden, or a girl's league.

    Gagner I think should grow into a real player, no problem there although he too should not be in the NHL yet. Too weak.

    Cogliano? Hmmm, maybe he's out of town when Heatley arrives lmao. In reality the jury still hasnt returned a verdict whether this guy can play on the top two lines, nothing to hold my breath over.

    Which leaves Schremp. An elite playmaker, can read the game like few others can(he sees everything in slow motion), banished just because a dildo head coach(who indidentally managed to not only get himself unceremonially fired for gross incompetance, but probably never works in the NHL after his 2008-09 antics) never liked his "attitude". Of course not. All MacT wanted was a dozen Moreau's out there, with a half dozen Steve Staois's in the rear.

    People diss Schremp because the Falcons were a pathetic, purile AHL joke of a hockey team last season. Great reasoning guys.

    Oh well, Quinn will give Schremp a chance to fall flat on his face. Or steal a top six center ice job.

  35. Peter says:

    Nice logic Dan the homo sapien. Thanks for addressing the exageration I made as if it were a serious argument.

    You're right, Nilsson is not 100x faster than Schremp. In fact, Nilsson might only be 1.2 times faster, but the point is that Schremp doesn't bring anything that Nilsson doesn't, while Nilsson brings a lot more speed and tenacity. It's good that you're keeping your argument realistic, because so far the only case you've made for Schremp is that he's cheaper than Nilsson. I think Katz can afford the extra mil and a bit, and since rookie bonuses don't count toward the cap this year, we have over $3M in cap space (before signing Smid).

    I think the story of Nilsson is a lot more interesting, because it looks like he has all the skills in the world that should make him a top-6 forward, if not a top line player, while Schremp has put in 1 good year in the AHL, sandwiched between 2 mediocre ones.

  36. quain says:

    Hate to break it to you guys, but Cogliano is not a winger.

    I agree Hunter. Schremp should be a center.

    So, he needs to surpass Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano, Brule, and Pouliot. I don't see how he breaks into the top two against the first three guys and I don't see him having enough grit or waterskiing ability to break into the bottom two lines.

    And, unless 07-08 didn't happen, I'm fairly certain that a line of Gagner-Cogliano-RandomLW is perfectly acceptable.

  37. Peter says:

    Hunter – I agree that Eberle and Paajarvi are and should be nowhere near the NHL. 2 years minimum, and that Gagner was and is still too weak. It's too late now, but Gagner should have been in junior the last 2 years, Cogliano should have been in College/the AHL, and Schremp should have been given a chance. Pouliot too. Putting those youngsters ahead of them was a mistake.

    I also hated McTavish's love of Moreau and Staios. They look like great guys, good teammates, family men, etc, but they aren't winning us games anymore. Players like that are a lot more valuable on contending teams when surrounded with really good players. They really aren't worth as much to a young team like us that's closer to the basement than to contending for the cup. I'd like to ditch them both ASAP and give their jobs to younger cheaper players.

  38. mc79hockey says:

    MacT didn't ruin his career, but he certainly had a hand in absoultely obliterating his asset-value. (The TSN rant was, to me, the lowest point in this organization's proud history. Bashing a minor-leaguer publicly. No organization has ever done something that malicious to a kid.)

    Yeah, I somehow think that other organizations could tell that Schremp sucked in the minors. Show me the great trade returns for first round picks who get stuck in the AHL and we'll talk.

    Given that that rant was a) accurate and b) as much about the questions about when Schremp would get called up as anything else, I doubt that it was the Lowe point in the organization's history.

    Lots of organizations do similar shit to lots of kids. The Sens spent Jason Spezza down and Jacques Martin, sick of getting asked why, said "This is a man's league and he's still a boy." The Leafs goalie coach just compared Justin Pogge to a child actor.

    As far as being the worst thing the organization has done, this doesn't come close to Cal Nichols telling Staples that Pronger should have just divorced his wife, IMO. Or trading Ron Chipperfield while he was with his mom, who was dying from cancer. Or pretty much everything Pocklington did between 1988 and 1997.

  39. boopronger says:

    Danman, when a player gets sent down and he lights up the ahl, the organization has no choice put to bring him back up – the player is just too good. Look at Smyth, when they sent him down he had 11 points in 9 games including 6 goals.
    You have to prove to the team that you dont belong in ahl. Schremp hasnt done that.

  40. mc79hockey says:

    It's not like Schremp will be at our blueline while the speed-demon Sam Gagner is driving to the net.

    Shit, I'd assume that I could beat Sam Gagner to the net if I started from centre ice while he was skating out of the Oilers zone.

  41. Lowetide says:

    Do we need to break out the shine box?

  42. Traktor says:

    Does Schremp have potential to crack 40 points at the NHL level under the right circumstances?

    Probably.

    The one thing that is forgotten is that Edmonton only had three forwards reach 40 points last year.

    Schremp has been past by a group of players but none have established themselves as out of reach.

    Schremp finished the 07/08 season as one of the top point producers in the AHL so pointing to the 08/09 season to prove a point is like pointing out 06/07 to prove Horcoff is a horrible hockey player.

    I'm not a Schremp fan BTW.

  43. Steve says:

    That wasn't a *plane* that crashed into the Pentagon, you naive, trusting fools; it was Rob Schremp!

  44. Traktor says:

    "I think most people come here for analysis, humor, and not to here a guy rooting for his favorite players. Save that for the arena."

    LT…Pouliot

    You're taking shots at the big man.

  45. Steve says:

    LT…Pouliot

    LT shows awareness that he's probably valuing Pouliot higher than the evidence justify. The Schremp Truthers…not quite so much.

    (For what it's worth, I sort of roll my eyes affectionately whenever I see LT mention Pouliot or Bruce mention Stortini. That said, I'm seriously considering developing a belief that Ryan Stone is a legitimate first line NHLer, just so I don't feel left out of the fringe-player-mancrush-fest.)

  46. digger says:

    It's too late now, but Gagner should have been in junior the last 2 years, Cogliano should have been in College/the AHL, and Schremp should have been given a chance. Pouliot too. Putting those youngsters ahead of them was a mistake.

    Personally, I look at this differently.

    IMO 07/08 was Schremp's window to make this team, but he came to camp not fully recovered from a knee injury as I recall, so he was behind the 8 ball from the start. Then suddenly 18 yr old Gagner's on the scene, grabbing attention with a 5 point game @ the Joey Moss Classic while looking very comfortable playing w/ Ales Hemsky, followed by a strong camp where he scored a couple of goals and finished +2. My take on it at the time was that the Oilers decided at that time to give him a 10 game audition, just to see how he'd fare but likely thought he'd eventually be going back to London. But then Gagner went 10-1-6-7, while the previous year's 2nd line center (Stoll) had an absolutely horrible start, going 10-0-1-1 w/ an ugly -7 +/-. The Oilers needed someone to take the 2nd line center role, and with Stoll struggling so badly I have a hard time blaming them for taking a chance w/ a kid who'd been producing offense so far. Unfortunately for the Oilers, it wasn't long after their decision to keep Gagner past his 10 game audition that he proceeded to struggle for quite a damn long time, until the last quarter of the season. The Oilers didn't have the easiest call to make here, and as it turned out it hurt them more than it helped them over the course of an 82 game regular season in 07/08.

    As for Cogliano/Pouliot, I'm sorry but I can't agree with you here. Cogliano had a flat out outstanding camp, while Pouliot once again showed up slow and behind the play. IMO Cogliano won an NHL job that season on his own merits, and it wasn't even close if Pouliot was supposedly his competition.

  47. quain says:

    Schremp has been past by a group of players but none have established themselves as out of reach.

    I agree with this, but it's also important to note that Schremp is older than the studs and the same age-ish as Nilsson. The studs will get their at-bats even if they stall, and I think Nilsson gets extra rope before Schremp gets called up because he has done it before (whether I agree with that is another story).

    It's going to take something on the order of "Nilsson, Cogliano, and Gagner were flying a plane while doing Jell-o shots off a set of triplets. Pouliot was naked and duct taped to the wing. The plane spun out over Nova Scotia. There were no survivors." for him to feasibly find a spot in this lineup.

    Get him signed in Europe or send him to another team.

  48. mc79hockey says:

    The Schremp Truthers

    Awesome. I love it.

  49. kris says:

    Traktor,

    There's a difference between arguing that your favorite players are good/decent players and the kind of emoting that Dan Man was doing and you know it. I mean, how do respond to 'I don't watch Springton [sic.] games. I only watch the Oilers!'

    If you want to argue about Schremp his past performance is relevant. (No one would be for hm if it weren't for his record in junior.) He scored 7 goals in the AHL. That sucks. It's awful. It's a stain that can't be overlooked. If he'd scored 20 in the AHL, I'd be willing to say that part of it was the crappy team, part of it was 'pouting' -though that hardly speaks well to him succeeding in the big leagues- part of it was some undisclosed, nagging injury. But he scored 7 goals. (How many guys, who aren't 17 or 18, go from scoring 7 in the AHL with regular ice-time to scoring 15 in the NHL in one year.)

    Damn Potulny had 39 goals! Jesus, if Schremp can score 15 in the show, is Potulny gonna make the team and score 80?

    Just stop it. It's over.

    Ah, but now you've done it. Now, I'm in the gutter arguing about something that there's no point in arguing.

    I'm going to have to go kill something even cuter, now to get this to stop. Maybe a momma duck and all of her babies. I'll kill the babies and make the momma duck watch.

  50. spOILer says:

    "Nilsson, Cogliano, and Gagner were flying a plane while doing Jell-o shots off a set of triplets. Pouliot was naked and duct taped to the wing. The plane spun out over Nova Scotia. There were no survivors."

    Don't you just love it when you flop a 3-of-a-kind?

    Pouliot must have lost the previous bet or didn't have enough to ante up.

  51. Ribs says:

    Pouliot must have lost the previous bet or didn't have enough to ante up.

    Nah, that's just how Poo rolls.

  52. digger says:

    If you want to argue about Schremp his past performance is relevant.

    Fair enough, so when did Schremp's previous 2 AHL seasons (17 and 23 goals respectively while averaging 45 assists/yr) apparently cease to exist?

    Do you honestly believe that his 7 goal season is a more honest indicator of Schremp's true offensive potential, and his previous 2 seasons on record were anomalies?

    I'm trying not to come across as a Schremp tire pumper here, I'll freely admit that the kid has a VERY slight chance at playing a single NHL game for the Oilers in 09/10…but let's at least look at his entire body of work.

  53. hunter1909 says:

    "But then Gagner went 10-1-6-7, while the previous year's 2nd line center (Stoll) had an absolutely horrible start, going 10-0-1-1 w/ an ugly -7 +/-. The Oilers needed someone to take the 2nd line center role, and with Stoll struggling so badly I have a hard time blaming them for taking a chance w/ a kid who'd been producing offense so far."

    Yeah, then Stoll goes to the Kings and Oilers fans can resume talking about that elusive search for a Stoll type player.

    I swear I could run a hockey team better than the post Pronger Oilers. I'd start by firing Lowe and MacTavish, thus giving the message that failure isn't an option.

    That's what Lowe/MacT are by the way, sans playing careers. Failures.

  54. HBomb says:

    And this "lack of compete-level" garbage. What, you guys hate him because he doesn't water-ski on the backcheck like "minor-penalty" Moreau?

    Show me where I said this about Schremp. .

    More importantly, look through and see my commentary on Moreau and how I think he's dead money against the cap that should be ditched at the first opportunity.

  55. kris says:

    Fair enough. He scores between 7-23goalies in the AHL and he's no longer a kid.

    46 goals in 3 seasons.

    That's a little over 15 a year.

    That's not at the level where you say the player is ready to produce at the NHL as an offensive guy.

    Just isn't. Potulny popped in 40. How many is he going to score in the NHL this upcoming season? If he makes the team, I'd say 10-12 goals max.

    Schremp could still rehabilitate. Maybe this year he tears it up in the A or the KHL. Stranger things have happened. But all the evidence says this kid is now more of a bust than a prospect.

    I mean, short of a full season of crappiness in the NHL -which is too costly an experiment for us now- what would convince people that he can't and won't ever cut it. Will another season of 14 goals 60 points and poor 2-way play convince you?

  56. HBomb says:

    Again, are the Oilers ever going to lose a game because of Rob Schremp?
    NO

    Could they win a game because of Schremp?
    THEY ALREADY HAVE

    I fail to see how this makes sense. Logically, if they can win a game because of Schremp, they damn sure could lose a game because of him.

    Maybe it's just me though.

  57. Steve says:

    Why did Tambellini not trade him for a 2nd round pick at the draft?

    Because nobody would give him a 2nd round pick. We've been through this, haven't we?

  58. Steve says:

    Actually it has been well-documented that the NYI did, in fact, offer a 2nd rounder for Schremp.

    Source?

  59. DanMan says:

    Why did the Oilers even qualify a crappy player like him?

    Not only that, but he hasn't turned down the offer yet, unlike the solid, safe Liam Reddox.

    It really becomes frustrating when it seems as if certain people who call themselves fans root for one of our prospects to fail.

  60. Mr DeBakey says:

    Steve, the sky is cerulean.

  61. R O says:

    Why did the Oilers even qualify a crappy player like him?

    Not only that, but he hasn't turned down the offer yet, unlike the solid, safe Liam Reddox.

    It really becomes frustrating when it seems as if certain people who call themselves fans root for one of our prospects to fail.

    Stop misdirecting. Where is this well-documented source that clearly states that NYI offered a 2nd rounder for Rob Schremp?

  62. DanMan says:

    LT mentioned it on here.

    I'll try and find the thread.

    One of the 1260 guys mentioned it as well, but they only archive the interviews.

  63. Ribs says:

    Here's what I think most of us are aware of. From Matheson….

    Several sources at the draft said the Oilers offered up Schremp for a pick, possibly a second-rounder, but there were no takers for the forward, who needs a change of scenery. They qualified him Monday because they don't want to lose him for nothing, but that doesn't mean he fits into the long-range plans. There's no room for him on the top two Oiler lines.

    That's from Jun.30. Are you remembering incorrectly DanMan? Or was there updated info on the matter printed somewhere?

  64. Lowetide says:

    Just doing some cleaning up, don't mind me.

  65. Peter says:

    Kris – you captured it perfectly. We all wish Schremp was rookie of the year 07-08 and playing top line LW with Hemmer, but it wasn't to be.

    More broadly, and of greater interest, is what you said about politics and religion. It's hard for some people to debate things rationally, judging them on their merits alone, trying to identify some kind of truth within the complex ideas we come across. Some people avoid thought, evidence, and logic, yet still have strong opinions. It's particularly frightening when they're charasmatic people and they help shape OTHER people's views.

  66. digger says:

    While I'll agree that AHL production is usually a good indicator of future NHL offensive prowess, it's not a uniform rule.

    Stoll and Torres are two recent examples of players who have had seasons at the NHL level that eclipsed anything they did in the AHL. Neither of them ever tore it up in the minors, yet they managed find ways to score 20-25 goals in the majors. Admittedly they have a physical edge that Schremp simply doesn't have in his toolkit, but IMO the point still stands.

    As for what it would take for me to give up on Schremp, I'd say he's got almost exactly 2 months left before I evict him from Chateau Give-A-Damn. ;)

  67. oilerdago says:

    All of this drivel about Schremp and the kid who gets ignored in all this is Potulny.

    He nearly scores 40 goals last season and there is hardly anyone around to make the case for him.
    He shoots first and asks questions later.

    Why aren't we talking about him instead of wasting our time on a kid who's a draft bust? Did the other team run a peewee goalie out every time he shot?

    If some of you Schremp apologists would look beyond the boy wonder to someone who deserves some more call outs, then maybe your case might hold a little water with the rest of us.

  68. HBomb says:

    Potulny is a guy I'm going to root for at camp. Ideal scenario is if he becomes the heir apparent to Pisani – don't know if he has the two way game, but damn, we could use a cheap and useful 3rd liner who could pop 15 goals a season for around a million per.

  69. Steve says:

    Potulny? To hell with Potulny – why is everyone here overlooking Ryan Stone?

  70. DanMan says:

    Guys, I really don't want anything to be personal between us posters (I'll leave that to peter and Debakey). I like all of you. I think it is great that LT gives us this forum on which to express our comments, opinions, and sarcastic humor.

    When it comes to discussions about Schremp, I am reminded of the presser when Rishaug asked about the PP and MacT said "Is that what you are going to do? Just point out the negatives".

    Schremp is a hockey player, and on top of that, a human being. I don't think it is very fair what happened to him this year. I will continue to stick up for him as long as he is property of the Oilers, and possibly beyond.

  71. HBomb says:

    Schremp is a hockey player, and on top of that, a human being. I don't think it is very fair what happened to him this year.

    Hockey is a business. The business world doesn'tseem "fair" if you want a certain job but don't meet the requirements. That's the way it goes sometimes.

    If eight people are interviewed for a job, the guy who's ranked 8th after the process is complete may have some things going for him that would make him an OK fit for the job. However, he might not be the best fit because there's seven other guys who have better qualifications.

    Fair has nothing to do with it – it's how it works in the real world.

  72. Matt N says:

    While we are at it we should talk about Horcoff making 7 million a season and Dustin Penner being shitty/great as well. The Holy Trinity of Oilers Blogosphere Hot Buttons.

  73. Lowetide says:

    Sometimes I wish the internet was around long ago, and other times I wish ia was 1975.

  74. oilerdago says:

    LT: hmmm 1975, the Big Red Machine. One of the greatest World Series between the BoSox and Reds. Curt Gowdy was great on the play by play.

    Ah to be a teen ager again!

  75. Bruce says:

    For what it's worth, I sort of roll my eyes affectionately whenever I see LT mention Pouliot or Bruce mention Stortini.

    I've been just lurking 'til now, but since you brought him up, Steve :), I will make one comment about my man Zorg: when he got sent down to Springfield in fall 2007, he went 4 GP, 3-2-5, 21 PiM, made the case that he was more than capable at the AHL level, and got called right back up. That's right, 3 goals in 4 games. I don't have splits on Schremp, but I'm not sure he scored 3 goals in 4 months after his demotion. He gave the org. no reason whatsoever to consider recalling him.

  76. Traktor says:

    Sutter strikes again.

  77. spOILer says:

    In a word? Salarydump.

  78. mc79hockey says:

    For those of you who don't follow the Mets, their GM just accused a reporter of being biased in his coverage because he was trying to get the Ass't GM fired so that he could take his job. There's been some vicious stuff going in NYC lately and the press corps will likely be looking for Omar's head now.

    I'd love to have seen Kevin Lowe, Pat LaForge and Cal Nichols deal with a real press corps for a season or two. It'd be a hell of a lot of fun.

  79. kris says:

    Okay,

    First off I was acting like an ass. Thank you LT for deleting my comments. And sorry Dan Man for getting aggressive. I still don't want to talk about you-know-who. But AHL comparisons are interesting. So…

    Digger,

    Stoll scored 21 goals in 76 games his first season in the AHL in his 20yr old season. He then graduated to the NHL and scored 10 goals in 68 games. That's a move of 0.27 goals a game in the AHL to 0.14 in the NHL.

    Torres scored 20 goals in 59 games in his first AHL campaign, again at 20 years old. He then followed it up with 18 goals in 60 games the next season. Over two seasons thats a rate of 0.32 goals per game, which dropped to 0.25 goals per game his first season in the NHL.

    By contrast Schremp has played in 216 AHL games and scored 47 goals. That's a rate of 0.21.

    Assume that Schremp's rate drops no more than Torres', i.e. 0.07 (That's a very generous assumption.) That means Schremp scores at a rate of 0.14 goals per game. Suppose he plays 80 games.
    He'd score 11 goals.

    And this is a guy who we're supposed to bring for his offense?

    I'd be all for trying him out if he had a rep as a defensive, two-way guy, but he clearly doesn't.

    Of course this is all very hazy as far as analysis goes, but I doubt Schremp would fair much better if you looked in more detail at Goals/min of ice time or ES vs PP goals.

    (As an aside, you might be looking at the average-ish AHL numbers for Stoll and Torres in 2004-05, followed by their good 05/06 numbers. But remember, that was the lockout year, and accordingly a strange one in the AHL numbers wise. I would be loathe to make conclusions on 04/05)

  80. Lowetide says:

    No worries, kris. Enjoy your comments. MC: WHO follows the Mets?

  81. digger says:

    Kris:

    My main point was that it's not necessarily a requirement to "rip it up" at the AHL level before being ready by the parent club to graduate to NHL competition.

    And I don't disagree that Schremp's odds of making the Oilers are extremely long. As I said earlier, IMO his window was in 07/08 and unfortunately for him he failed to take advantage of it.

    I won't apologise for it being a head/heart thing with me…my head tells me he has no chance here. From strictly a fan's POV though, there's a part of me that can't help pulling for him to succeed because he seems like a good kid that would be a fascinating personality to have on the big club if he ever could manage to make it there.

    It's nothing more complex than that.

  82. DanMan says:

    digger: I think the bitter divide on Schremp is a reflection in differing philosophies on how the game should be played.

    Offense vs. Defence: Does a good offense beat a good defense or vice-versa? I'm an offense guy, I want to see some great passing, quality shots, and skilled play.

    Some believe you have to play a tight defensive game to win.

    Schremp would never make it with a Lemaire or Hitchcock type. MacT is a little more risky than those 2, but imo Schremp never had a real shot while he was here. Pat Quinn is a different kind of coach. He usually has 3 scoring lines and a checking/energy line, and maybe Schremp fits in that system.

    The thing is, I just want to see him get a shot. 15 to 20 games playing a regular shift. If nothing more than to showcase him for other teams, and get a decent return on his tarnished value.

  83. Steve says:

    I think the bitter divide on Schremp is a reflection in differing philosophies on how the game should be played.

    Offense vs. Defence: Does a good offense beat a good defense or vice-versa?

    Seriously? No, it has nothing to do with how the game should be played. It has to do with whether or not people believe that a seven goal AHL guy can be a top two line NHL guy.

    I'm just fine with exciting, one dimensional scorers. But I like them to score.

  84. Woodguy says:

    Seriously? No, it has nothing to do with how the game should be played. It has to do with whether or not people believe that a seven goal AHL guy can be a top two line NHL guy.

    I'm just fine with exciting, one dimensional scorers. But I like them to score.

    Very well stated.

    Now that I have read yet another thread full of Schremp stuff, I will now remove my left eyeball with a fork.

    Agreed with the previous comment about the Edmonton media as well.

    Barnes is the closest thing we have to a real sports journalist in our area, and even he leaves too much unsaid.

    Most journalists (should probably read "sports writers") here figure that "asking the tough questions", and "showing their independence from the team" starts and ends with piling on the players who are on the outs with the organization.

    Maybe I should use an ice cream scoop instead?

  85. Lowetide says:

    I honestly think the argument has been going on so long and the lines are so blurred there's no rational way to talk about Schremp anymore.

    I was thrilled when the Oilers took him, slack-jawed when he put up that season in London.

    Midway through his first AHL season I read somewhere that he played as much as 30 minutes a night in junior.

    That's a mighty skew. It's like letting him bat 1, 4, and 6 every inning. And since then he's resembled a player who isn't going to make it.

  86. DanMan says:

    LT: Have you ever heard Ludzy talk about Schremp? He coached him in London and absolutely loved the kid. His first two AHL seasons were good considering age and how bad the teams were or the situation he was in (WBS). This past season was his first real test of adversity, and it looks like it got to him. I still have hope for him. Discussions about Schremp show how truly passionate the Oiler fans are, getting this fired up about a guy who has played so little in the NHL.

  87. Master Lok says:

    Potulny is a guy I'm going to root for at camp. Ideal scenario is if he becomes the heir apparent to Pisani – don't know if he has the two way game, but damn, we could use a cheap and useful 3rd liner who could pop 15 goals a season for around a million per.

    I'm cheering for Potulny. I like to cheer for hardluck guys who have actually accomplished something in the minors and are actually deserving of a shot.

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