The Next Gagner!

As the “summer of change” bleeds out across Edmonton and area it’s probably a good idea to look at the minor leagues (and below) for help. Although the Falcons struggled badly for much of the season there were some difference makers and a few good men who might force their way onto the roster.

Add to that the junior and college players who may be able to ignite the fanbase and create some excitement. It looks to me as though Steve Tambellini will be looking for “the next Gagner!” right soon.

Desjardins’ NHL equivalencies gives us a nice list for saviours amongst the men bubbling under.

It’s important to note that these equivalency percentages are compiled over several seasons and do not change for specific years. It does however have a very nice track record. I’ll list only the players likely to attend training camp as possible Falcons, along with the next great hopes (in bold):

  1. Riley Nash 12-21-33
  2. Ryan Potulny 18-12-30
  3. Jordan Eberle 14-16-30
  4. JF Jacques 5-20-25
  5. Gilbert Brule 13-11-24
  6. Ryan Stone 7-17-24
  7. Rob Schremp 3-20-23
  8. Teemu Hartikainen 15-5-20
  9. Slava Trukhno 5-13-18
  10. Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson 7-9-16
  11. Bryan Lerg 8-8-16
  12. Colin McDonald 4-6-10
  13. Geoff Paukovich 4-4-8
  14. Ryan O’Marra 1-5-6

Should the Edmonton Oilers fail to excite the masses via the trade route, I think there may be more pressure on a player like Riley Nash to leave college, a buzz around Eberle even before camp begins, a change of heart about how well Timra develops hockey players, or a crazed call to Finland to save the franchise one more time. This is the future, and it might be now. We’ll know the moment Jim Matheseon mentions one of these names.

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136 Responses to "The Next Gagner!"

  1. Boondock says:

    I loved the Nash pick right from the start. I think I even called the Oilers picking him with the #15 pick in a draft prediction thread.

    It's really hard to predict what a player like this will do once turning pro from a lower echelon NCAA school, I really hope Nash will turn into a Kesler-lite type player for the Oil.

  2. digger says:

    If there's 2 things that sports franchises like to sell in abundance, they are as follows:

    1) Overpriced, watered down beer
    2) Hope

    I'd say it'll be made plain sometime in the next 6 weeks that if the Oilers are planning a hype parade, the main float with have Eberle as its centerpiece.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Boondock: Liked him from the start, too.

    digger: He's the most likely, but probably not the best bet for success.

    Here's a comparable Nash/Cogliano:

    Cogs (age 19) 38gp, 24-26-50 1.315
    Nash (age 19) 36gp, 13-22-35 .972

    However, Nash's club scored 92 goals in 36 games (2.56 GF per game) and Cogliano's scored 174 goals in 41 games (4.24GF per game).

  4. PDO says:

    I swear, if we waste more cheap RFA years on a guy like MPS so we can sell hope on a team that will sell out every night I'll smash my head into a wall…

  5. Jonathan Willis says:

    Nice post LT. I see that we're on the same horrifying page.

  6. Baroque says:

    I'm getting old. All these kids look about 12.

  7. digger says:

    Just so I have it straight in my head, MPS won't even be at training camp this year, yes? He's 100% committed to playing in the SEL for 09/10?

  8. Lowetide says:

    digger: things change.

  9. Boondock says:

    LT: Sorry for the kind of random comment to kick things off. Ever posted while participating in a conference call at work?

    I really hope we don't rush any of these guys into a situation where they're in over their head.

    Eberle is IMO easily the least NHL ready of the top 7 guys on that least, but if MPS stays in Sweden, he's definitely the best sell to the fans for the Oil brass.

  10. Traktor says:

    "I think there may be more pressure on a player like Riley Nash to leave college, a buzz around Eberle even before camp begins, a change of heart about how well Timra develops hockey players, or a crazed call to Finland to save the franchise one more time. This is the future, and it might be now. We'll know the moment Jim Matheseon mentions one of these names."

    10/10

  11. bookie says:

    Can we just call him Paji?

    I hate the acronym thing.

    That is my entire contribution to the blog for the past three days, sorry, not much mental energy here!

  12. bookie says:

    btw, by 'here' I meant here, in my brain, not here, on the blog…

  13. bookie says:

    Ok, what I meant to mean is that my brain is lacking energy. For proof, please this this and proceeding two posts… I will stop now.

  14. Chris says:

    At the start of the year, the Oilers will already have 25 or 26 NHL-ready bodies as is fighting for 23 spots. I don't see us rushing someone into a spot earlier.

    If anything, this will be the year to see what Schremp or Potulny or Brule (or more than one of them) can do.

  15. Lord Bob says:

    I watched Nash play a fair bit in his draft year as a junior "A" player and thought he stunk.

    Just so this thread doesn't become a backpatting party!

  16. DanMan says:

    Given the lack of true centers we have, I would bet Brule is a lock to stick here, at least to start the year.

    Potulny will be kept in Springfield, him and Minard could be the Zetterberg/Datsyuk of the AHL. If youknowwho's skating is keeping him out of the bigs, Potulny has no hope in hell.

    The original trade for Syvret was a minor league deal, the thought being plenty of depth on d, and a need of a proven AHL scorer.

  17. Lowetide says:

    DanMan: Where on earth are you finding the information that allows for these sweeping statements. Have you read a credible quote in regard to Potulny's skating compared to Schremp?

    Really, this is becoming bothersome

  18. Coach pb9617 says:

    You will all join the Cult Of Hartikainen soon enough.

  19. Coach pb9617 says:

    Tire, LT, tire.

  20. Lowetide says:

    Coach: I was surprised Hartikainen didn't end up higher than #5 on your list. I have him at 7th and knew you like him plenty.

    Either way, he is tracking very nicely.

  21. Lowetide says:

    Did this Nick Green guy win some kind of "play SS for a night" contest? Lordy. If the Yanks win the pennant, I blame him.

  22. Lord Bob says:

    If the Yanks (or Sox) win the pennant, I for one will cut to the chase and blame Major League Baseball.

  23. Coach pb9617 says:

    LT, I have him at #4 on my list. That rat Willis is dragging him down.

    He is tracking nicely, and I think that sifting through to find some of the underliers convinced me all the more that the kid will be in the NHL in a couple of years.

  24. Coach pb9617 says:

    2) Hope.

    Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.

  25. jon k says:

    LT: KP has commented in an interview with Flaming that the only thing keeping Potulny out of the NHL is his skating. By my eye his acceleration is what particularly stands out as wanting.

  26. PunjabiOil says:

    Can we just call him Paji?

    Paji in Punjabi means 'brother'

  27. Coach pb9617 says:

    Random picture time. LT, please figure out a way to use this to start a thread.

  28. Lowetide says:

    Is that Grace Slick with Elvis as GI Joe?

  29. Ribs says:

    Can we just call him Paji?

    Paji in Punjabi means 'brother'

    …And so Brother Magnus was born.

  30. Coach pb9617 says:

    Is that Grace Slick with Elvis as GI Joe?

    Yup. Tons of angles and metaphors here. And Jefferson Airplane lyrics.

    Oh, and she's smokin.

  31. DanMan says:

    LT: My cousin is a scout, older brother asst coach in the A. They give me info, which i often disagree with (near fistfights about Schremp and other hot-button players).

    But with Potulny, all you gotta do is watch. He is sssssslllllllloooooowwwwww. Never gonna stick, sorry.

  32. DanMan says:

    NHL network, centre ice, watching live/taping every oiler game (and usually watching them twice), and an extremely tolerant girlfriend help, too :)

  33. R O says:

    But with Potulny, all you gotta do is watch. He is sssssslllllllloooooowwwwww. Never gonna stick, sorry.

    So why can't this be said about Schremp? By LT's accounts, his skating has regressed significantly (and was never good to begin with).

    And I believe you were arguing in a different thread that skating wasn't that important (re:Schremp) because he's going to be in the offensive zone all the time. So why wouldn't this argument apply to Potulny?

  34. Lowetide says:

    DanMan: So, you are a "saw him good" person. Good to know.

  35. Ribs says:

    I thought Potulny skated just fine while he was up. He's fast enough in straight lines and slows down noticeably when he has to do more but that is something a player can work on and get better at. It's a pretty common problem with shooters.

  36. PunjabiOil says:

    If we're going to nominate pictures for LT to incorporate, how about this one

    http://tiny.cc/wxveL

  37. DanMan says:

    LT: There are over 2000 players on the radar. I can't "see em all good". Nobody can.

    Why can't I have an OPINION on Potulny? I could be right, I could be wrong. I have been right about certain players in the past, and flat-out wrong about others. That's the nature of what we are talking about. There's no hockey being played right now, all we can do is talk about it.

    I have to rely on #'s just like everyone else most of the time. But I don't see having an opinion on a players skill-set is a bad thing at all.

    R O: That HAS been said about Schremp ad-nauseum. I'm a picky guy, with certain players the overall talent and vision can overcome lack of foot-speed IMO.

  38. Lowetide says:

    I remember distincly buying the copy of CREEM that included this photo

    (warning, partial nudity)

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AxikaaVnbMg/R6PjM9M_PgI/AAAAAAAAAgg/AtrIulNXRx0/s400/grace-slick-0801.JPG

  39. R O says:

    That HAS been said about Schremp ad-nauseum. I'm a picky guy, with certain players the overall talent and vision can overcome lack of foot-speed IMO.

    Schremp's skating has been quoted by LT as "wide-body". That does not bode well for him.

    I don't even see how Schremp's talent and vision, such as they are, enter the equation. He couldn't outscore or score at the AHL level last year. That is not a good indicator. You will, of course, counter by pointing out "that game in Vancouver!!!" but the AHL sample size trumps yours.

  40. Lowetide says:

    DanMan: It speaks to your credibility. Let's pretend this blog is a table at a restaurant and we're all sitting around talking (like the coffee shop scene in Reservoir Dogs).

    If we says things like "Potulny can't skate" it needs to have some kind of verification. Since it cannot from the source, we'd need a scout of someone like Prendergast saying "he's slower than Schremp" in order for us to believe you.

    Once you've been here awhile, then we can start trusting your opinion. Unless you've changed your name, it seems you've shown up here just a little while ago.

    Now, if you say "hey I'm YK Oil you stupid ass" then of course I'm sorry. But there's a lot of guys in the internet who spend time trying to win arguments with hyperbole, bullshits and CAPS and I'm just too fucking old to waste my time with them.

  41. Steve says:

    Three words for you:

    1. Ryan
    2. Motherfucking
    3. Stone

  42. Coach pb9617 says:

    Why did you do that to me?

    I give you smokin' Grace Slick. In return, you give me…old Grace Slick. That's not very nice.

    I'm not the one that thinks Schremp is better than Potulny!

  43. Coach pb9617 says:

    From the Cult Of Hartikainen website:

    18 year old NHLE

    Sam Gagner [NHL] 13-36-49
    Jordan Eberle [WHL] 14-16-30
    Rob Schremp [OHL] 12-15-27
    Patrick O'Sullivan [OHL] 13-11-24
    Philippe Cornet [QMJHL] 8-13-21
    Teemu Hartikainen [SML] 15-5-20
    Marc-Antoine Pouliot [QMJHL] 7-9-16
    Andrew Cogliano [NCAA] 4-5-9

    Team Teemu lights the lamp.

    Härski for owner!

  44. Lowetide says:

    Coach: Sorry. It was maybe 1975 Grace Slick so she wasn't terribly old.

    Steve: We're not buying. You don't feel it. Your posts are less than 100 words in length and you don't really sell his strong points. When I'm talking about Pouliot there's always a portion that admits he's imperfect but points out his strengths, and then a long and emotional coda about his future.

  45. DanMan says:

    RO: You may very well be right, I hope you are not, but you could be.

    I am a sucker for potential. I don't give up on prospects with loads of it.

    LT is gonna be pissed if we make this thread about Schremp, i just know it.

    Having said that, I don't think last year is what Schremp should solely be judged on. It was a tough year for him personally. Things happen between the ears that nobody but the player knows about. Having the MSM go from hopeful optimism to supporting the opinions of the coach on the big team definitely hurt him. Where is the incentive to tear up the A, when he did that the year before and was ignored?

    As I said in the last thread, as long as he is a member of the Oilers I will support him, just as I will Potulny.

    I like Potulny, he can bury the puck. But he doesn't seem to make his teammates better. Playmakers are just as important as scorers imo. It sucks that there seems to be a hate-on for Schremp, but nary a critical word said of Potulny.

  46. Ducey says:

    LT,

    A thought. I don't follow the Canucks much, but it seems they have been very slow in their development during the time Tambi was with them. By this I mean they seemed to do little at the deadlines and kind patiently sit back and let their team develop. Luongo is a big exception to this but otherwise it seems apt.

    Can we learn anything from the Canucks during the time Tambi was there that gives us a clue as to what Tambi is doing now?

  47. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: Excellent point. I'll take a look.

  48. Coach pb9617 says:

    LT, I'm seeing gray hairs there, right?

    Another positive for our Wasama winner: 3.96 shots / 20 mins TOI — that outpaces even Patrick O'Sullivan.

  49. Lowetide says:

    Coach: Christ, you're checking out the HAIR?

  50. DanMan says:

    LT: I am a newcomer to the blog world.

    I actually really appreciate it when you let me know when I have gone too far.

    I don't expect to have any more cred than anyone else here. With opinions on players, its never black and white, only varying shades of grey.

    Having hope for Bertuzzi, Schremp, Penner, and others hurts my credibilty, I know. It is riverboat gambling with those guys. I may die on the #88 hill, but at least it wasn't Lindros.

  51. Lowetide says:

    DanMan: We loved Lindros. I think to a man the blogosphere thought he was king.

  52. Bruce says:

    My cousin is a scout, older brother asst coach in the A. They give me info, which i often disagree with (near fistfights about Schremp and other hot-button players).

    DanMan: If I'm reading this correctly, your cousin and brother ALSO disagree with you about Schremp. That pretty much makes it unanimous.

    This isn't Iran. 100 favourable comments about Schremp does not equate into 100 votes for Schremp if it's the same person making the favourable comments over and over and over and …

    To change the topic (puh-leeze), if Ryan Potulny's 39 snipes don't make his teammates better, then why the fuck are we chasing Dany Heatley?

  53. Coach pb9617 says:

    Coach: Christ, you're checking out the HAIR?

    I first tried to see what kind of beer she was drinking. Then I checked the hair.

    An additional point from the Cult Of Hartikainen on the power play:

    26 games w/o Härski: .54 PPG/game
    32 games w/ Härski: 1.1 PPG/game

  54. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Bruce said…
    My cousin is a scout, older brother asst coach in
    DanMan: If I'm reading this correctly, your cousin and brother ALSO disagree with you about Schremp. That pretty much makes it unanimous.
    To change the topic (puh-leeze), if Ryan Potulny's 39 snipes don't make his teammates better, then why the fuck are we chasing Dany Heatley?

    Perhaps because Potulny isn't Heatley?

  55. DanMan says:

    Bruce: If you see a guy play, or even just look at his stats, and determine that he is a guy you feel can help an NHL team win games, can the opinions of others change your mind 180 degrees?

  56. Lowetide says:

    The beer is Boy Howdy. It wasn't actually a beer, just a spoof by the magazine.

  57. DanMan says:

    A great example is Tambellini's signing of Khabibulin.

    Many very intelligent people disagreed with this move. They don't just roll over and say "great job Tambo, keep rollin baby!". And I wouldn't want them too either.

    If we all agreed on every signing, draft pick, trade, and individual players, this would be a pretty boring blog (although we could always count on LT coming up with great topics and info)!

  58. R O says:

    A great example is Tambellini's signing of Khabibulin.

    Many very intelligent people disagreed with this move. They don't just roll over and say "great job Tambo, keep rollin baby!". And I wouldn't want them too either.

    It's an evidence problem.

    Let's put it this way. If you were still interested in defending Rob Schremp, what you could do, instead of citing your evaluation of his talent without context, is come up with a list of comparable players over time with similar talents and shortcomings, and see where they have ended up. Digger in the other thread did something kinda like this by citing Stoll and Torres, two players whose NHL achievements far eclipsed the AHL.

  59. Coach pb9617 says:

    The beer is Boy Howdy. It wasn't actually a beer, just a spoof by the magazine.

    You frighten me.

    Bruce: If you see a guy play, or even just look at his stats, and determine that he is a guy you feel can help an NHL team win games, can the opinions of others change your mind 180 degrees?

    For the love of Kurri, Schremp is crap. He's wishing and hoping that he can one day turn into Kyle Wellwood. No one here cares about his magical hands because his magical hands are always a zone behind the play.

    More fun with Teemu!

  60. Coach pb9617 says:

    Has anyone ever received final word on Brule's waiver status?

  61. Lowetide says:

    LIAR!!!

  62. blackadder says:

    CREEM magazine… now that takes me back. Gonna have to look up some old Lester Bangs articles about the Troggs now.

    Don't see anyone on the list that's capable of contributing much to the Oil' next year, unless Brule suddenly rediscovers what he had going for him in 2005. Mostly a group of "not ready for prime time" players and others who never will be. If we start hearing Jordan Eberle's name a lot, think it's time to start planning for next year's entry draft.

    We'd be better off bringing in two or three cheap free agents for a year or two and letting the next wave of prospects actually develop. Players like Betts, Malhotra, Moore would each add something. Always liked Taylor Pyatt too, although more for what I think he could bring to a team than for what he actually does. If we're willing to hide a couple of contracts in the minors (say Nilsson, Staois) we could look at Peter Sykora (who played well with Hemsky the year he was here) or Seidenberg. There are quite a few options out there, but like everyone patience is starting to wear thin.

  63. DanMan says:

    RO: I can't really think of any other player who was insulted at a presser by the NHL coach while in the minors.

    NHL achievements? Schremp has played 7 friggen games?

    Apples and Oranges my friend. Nobody has been in Schremp's position. Spezza was called "a boy, and it's a man's game", which imo was not as bad as what was said about Schremp, when MacT just ripped him: "too slow, too small, too soft, the's not helping them there, what makes you think he's gonna help us here"

    Nobody who has played 7 total NHL games over 3 years has ever faced this kind of scrutiny.

  64. pboy says:

    Did this Nick Green guy win some kind of "play SS for a night" contest? Lordy. If the Yanks win the pennant, I blame him.

    I know that I am a sports degenerate when my wife and I are assembling the crib for our "November before you know it 1st child" and I can't stop talking about what a piece of shit Nick Green is and why, oh why didn't Terry play Lowrie tonight. She kept giving me the look but she knows the Sox are trailing the Yanks so she had enough class not to actually say anything. Good woman.

    I liked what I saw from Potulny last season (I realize it was an incredibly small sample size) but if he can build on his stats from the Springfield, maybe he can have a strong camp and keep filling the net. Anyone who can score 35+ at that level of hockey deserves a look, stranger things have happened.

  65. Lowetide says:

    That's for sure. When I saw him nailed to that cross the first thing I thought was "he's going to have a hard time skating."

  66. HBomb says:

    What's with all the venom around here lately? The heat getting to everyone?

    Join hands and sing "kumbaya", folks, we need to calm down. It's summer.

    As for the baseball stuff – don't worry folks, once JP Riccardi seals his fate and gives up Halladay to the Sox for Bucholz and two prospects, the Yankees won't have a hope in hell of winning the AL East. Their lead right now even is mis-leading – past Sabathia, their pitching staff fucking sucks. Mediocre at best, and certainly not good enough to be considered a legit threat come October.

  67. HBomb says:

    And for the record, I'm rooting for Potulny to discover a two way game and become the next Pisani around Edmonton. Lord knows we could use a cheap and effective bottom six forward with 15 goals a season in him.

    He's the guy I'll be watching and hoping for during training camp. And he's going to get a good, long look methinks…

  68. Coach pb9617 says:

    HBomb, a new desktop for you.

  69. HBomb says:

    Coach: brilliant.

  70. R O says:

    RO: I can't really think of any other player who was insulted at a presser by the NHL coach while in the minors.

    NHL achievements? Schremp has played 7 friggen games?

    Apples and Oranges my friend. Nobody has been in Schremp's position. Spezza was called "a boy, and it's a man's game", which imo was not as bad as what was said about Schremp, when MacT just ripped him: "too slow, too small, too soft, the's not helping them there, what makes you think he's gonna help us here"

    Nobody who has played 7 total NHL games over 3 years has ever faced this kind of scrutiny.

    None of that changes the fact that Schremp's development curve completely tanked. The road to the NHL is riddled with hardship (of which public embarassment is just one of many potential challenges) and not being able to handle it is not an excuse for poor results. In fact, not being able to "handle it" is often why many promising prospects fizzle out.

  71. Woodguy says:

    DanMan- re: Schremp; please stop it, I only have one eye left.

    LT, I think there is no room at the inn this year.

    Its the year that Poo, JFJ, Brule, hopefully Potulny and to some extent Zorg get to sink or swim (although I'm in Bruce's camp on Zorg)

    I actually have hope for the future of this franchise with the quality of some the prospects, quality of Daum, and the impending move to Oklahoma (playing in front of larger crowds in a nice building may coax some of the future college players to come out earlier)

    I really hope that most of the high end prospects play at least one full year in the A, and that the big team's roster forces that to happen.

    It really looks like they are starting to get their shit together in terms of growing prospects.

    Maybe that will keep the big game hunting to a minimum in the future.

    Too bad Hemsky will be gone when it starts to come together, but Gagner should still be here and just hitting his prime.

  72. R O says:

    I don't much follow baseball but I did read Moneyball, which roundly praised JP Riciardi as a GM from the Billy Beane mold. What the hell is going on in TO?

  73. pboy says:

    Basically, JP is a shithead who is currently in year 6 or 7 of a 5 year plan and the Jays are not much better than they were before and the gap between them and the Sox, Yanks and Rays is ever widening. Besides that, he is a very competent baseball person. They should be looking to trade him not Doc Halladay, however, if JP wants to cut a deal with the Sox, I would stop saying mean things about him….

  74. DanMan says:

    LT: Well done lamo.

    He is 23 years old. The skills and skating most likely won't improve very much, if at all at this point.

    The only thing that can change is between the ears.

    I think we know what this player can do, and we know what he can't do. It's up to the coach to see if his positives outweigh the negatives.

    It is going to be a tough decision to make for Tambellini if the coaches don't want him there. He goes on waivers if he is sent down, doesn't he?

  75. DanMan says:

    RO: I agree, I just think he still has a chance to turn it around. It was only one bad year.

  76. DanMan says:

    Horcoff had 16 goals last year.

    Do you really think he will get anything less than 25-30 this year?

  77. Jonathan Willis says:

    I hate to say it, but we all (myself included) spend way too much time arguing about these AHL'ers. Of course, that's part of the fun of being a passionate fan, but sometimes I just laugh at the tacks people take.

    Guys like Schremp and Potulny are still in the minors for years and years for a reason; either the offense isn't their, or the defense isn't their, or they stand 5'4 or they're handcrafted from paper mache or they move like Murray Baron mired in a pool of molasses. Something.

    Schremp says all the right things, which is part of the appeal, and he's got the offense which is also part of the appeal but the same problems on draft day (skating, laziness in his own end, consistency, attitude) keep coming up and that tells me that no matter how often he tells people he's working to improve them he's a long shot to ever get there.

    Potulny's a guy I really like, a big-time shooter, and a natural scorer. He looked good in the NHL during his brief stint there. That said, he isn't big, he isn't overly fast (although I didn't see him as any slower than Schremp) and despite some of the scouting reports I wonder if he's got that wide range of skills we all love to see.

    Anyhow, those are my thoughts, but the one thing I will say is this: I can't see Schremp or Potulny ever being much better than, say, Vaclav Prospal.

    Which is why depth UFA's are a lot more fun than developing at the NHL level.

  78. HBomb says:

    pboy: To put it more accurately, Toronto has been in year 2 or 3 of a five year plan since about 2003.

    How Riccardi still has a job at this point is a mystery.

  79. Jonathan Willis says:

    DanMan: What was the Horcoff comment in reply to?

  80. DanMan says:

    J-Willlis: Writing a guy off after one bad year

  81. geowal says:

    To bring it back to the beginning…

    I swear, if we waste more cheap RFA years on a guy like MPS so we can sell hope on a team that will sell out every night I'll smash my head into a wall...

    Why this organization feels they need to "convince" us to watch the team is beyond me. It's late July and we're discussing this! This isn't the deep south hockey hotbed. We don't need smoke and mirrors, don't need lots of "star" players, just do the things we need to do to win in the not painfully distant future. The focus needs to be more than 5 months down the road.

  82. R O says:

    DanMan: Horcoff has a long history of NHL success.

  83. Nelson88 says:

    Ducey,

    Tambo had an ace in the hole. The ageless Mike Keane who helped turn mediocre talent into NHL roster players. We need one!

  84. bookie says:

    But there's a lot of guys in the internet who spend time trying to win arguments with hyperbole, bullshits and CAPS and I'm just too fucking old to waste my time with them.

    I thought you were in your twenties!

  85. Jonathan Willis says:

    DanMan:

    Two points:

    1) One bad year?
    2) 50 points in the NHL is a lot different than 40 points in the AHL.

  86. DanMan says:

    In 07-08 he was on pace for 30. I think he can do it again. I'm hoping he's gonna work on the shot accuracy this summer. Bank some in off the corner-post.

  87. Steve says:

    Horcoff had 16 goals last year.

    Do you really think he will get anything less than 25-30 this year?

    I certainly think that it's a distinct possibility. Why? Because I'm using past statistical measures as predictors of future performance. How about that.

  88. Jonathan Willis says:

    Yeah, I figure Horcoff's probably in the 20/45/65 range next year.

    If the Oilers pick up a 3rd-line centre to help carry the load.

  89. DanMan says:

    Jonathan: That is true, but scrutiny and exterior factors count imo. Horcoff was pretty well-protected through the media. It wasn't until he tanked in down the stretch with 2 g in 19 gp, that he really took any heat.

  90. DanMan says:

    Our first line LW will be much more productive this year either way. It was either Penner, Reddox, or Moreau last year until we got Kotalik. If Penner stays there the whole year, Horcs production escalates. If Heatley or another top LW acquired via trade is on the first line, Horcs production escalates.

    If Gagner is on the top line for some time next year, Horc will be our #2 "eatin up the softies"

  91. Bruce says:

    Join hands and sing "kumbaya", folks, we need to calm down.

    HBomb: Isn't "kumbaya" Neanderthalese for "$7 million"?

  92. Jonathan Willis says:

    DanMan:

    This was the first year that Schremp took any real heat, he's been well protected through the media too.

    Take Jim Cressman, for example:

    December 27, 2004
    December 29, 2004
    January 1, 2005

  93. Jonathan Willis says:

    If Gagner is on the top line for some time next year, Horc will be our #2 "eatin up the softies".

    That'll be the day. I assume that in this scenario Tom Renney's been buried out behind Rexall?

  94. Coach pb9617 says:

    If Gagner is on the top line for some time next year, Horc will be our #2 "eatin up the softies"

    Please. Just. Stop.

    Remember what the dormouse said.

  95. HBomb says:

    I think we've covered every hot-button Oilogosphere issue in this one thread.

    Robbie Schremp. Shawn Horcoff. Dany Heatley. I'm pretty sure Khabibulin was mentioned.

    I think what's happened here is obvious. It's not even August 1st and we've run out of shit to talk about. With training camp not starting for another six weeks, we are officially screwed.

  96. Jonathan Willis says:

    HBomb: Dennis needs to stop by and lambaste Lowe.

  97. DanMan says:

    HBomb: lol and well put. That just about sums up what it is like to be an Oiler fan these days.

  98. Bruce says:

    HBomb: I don't think Souray has been traded even once in this thread.

  99. PDO says:

    Souray has been dealt for Jack Johnson and Alex Frolov.

    Straight up.

    I swear, I had a dream I was playing NHL '09 while watching Pierre Maguire on TV, and he told me so..

  100. bookie says:

    I think what's happened here is obvious. It's not even August 1st and we've run out of shit to talk about. With training camp not starting for another six weeks, we are officially screwed.

    You are correct…

    Nothing to do now other than the 1000 or so things that we all have been procrastinating on. Time to get off our FAs and do some work, eh!

    See you at training camp…

  101. DanMan says:

    Stop procrastinating?

    How dare you even suggest it.

  102. slipper says:

    Yeah, I figure Horcoff's probably in the 20/45/65 range next year.

    65 points is waaaay too little for a guy earning 7 million.

  103. hunter1909 says:

    Wow. A bunch of 20 point players. I'm thrilled.

  104. hunter1909 says:

    A real hockey team with real hope either has a solid lineup(like the Flames).

    Or else has got real hope(The islanders).

    Lowetide, you can only spin these lames around so much, because in the end they will have to come up against the big boys. And from the tea leaves I happen to subscribe to, there's actually very little to be excited about.

  105. Rick says:

    Nash is a heck of a prospect, but he chose an ivy league school for a reason and it wasn't to play hockey.

    I'd be shocked if the Oil brass lured him away from Cornell this year.

  106. Peter says:

    I don't think we'll see any of the youngsters (Nash, Paajarvi, Eberle, Hartikainen) in the NHL this year, nor do I think we should start any of them in the NHL next year. Nash and Eberle will play in Springfield for at least a little bit next year, and I think Paajarvi and Hartikainen will stay in Europe for yet another season before trying to make the jump straight to the NHL in 2011-2012 (when Paajarvi is 20 and Hartikainen is 21).

  107. Coach pb9617 says:

    and I think Paajarvi and Hartikainen will stay in Europe for yet another season before trying to make the jump straight to the NHL in 2011-2012 (when Paajarvi is 20 and Hartikainen is 21).

    Hartikainen-Gagner-Hemsky
    Paajarvi-Horcoff-Cogliano
    Jacques-Vande Velde-Kytnar
    Lander-Nash-Eberle

    :)

  108. Undisclosed Personal Reasons says:

    I wonder how much worse/better Gagner and Cogs would be if they hadn't been thrown into the fire.

  109. gogliano says:

    What about Ryan Stone?

  110. Coach pb9617 says:

    Harding signs for a million. No one could have predicted…

  111. Sign Johnny Bower says:

    How many Cups has Harding won?

  112. Yeti says:

    Does anyone know why Potulny was given such short-shrift in last season's training camp. I don't think he even played a game and was an early send down. Given his versatility and his tendency to shoot, you'd have thought they would have taken a better look at him. Hopefully that good season on a bad AHL team – plus a quite reasonable yet brief call up – has raised his stock. Is he a dark-horse to make the team as 13th forward?

  113. Peter says:

    I had a dream last night that we acquired Derek Roy from Buffalo. The dream didn't include what we gave up, but man was I stoked.

    Coach, I get excited and do potential lineups like that too. I think they'd all have to develop to their full potential though for that to be a lineup, especially Lander, Kytnar, and Van de Velde.
    I think our non-pro forwards prospects, in order of potential, are:
    1) Paajarvi
    2) Eberle
    3) Nash
    4) Hartikainen
    5) Rajala
    6) Lander
    7) Van de Velde
    8) Kytnar
    9) Cornet

    Yeti: I wish they'd give Potulny a chance too, but it's the same old story. There's no way he's up there unless he can fill a checking line centre role or outproduce Nilsson and probably O'Sullivan too. Not likely.

    I feel like we need to give Nilsson one more chance, because it would be tragic to deal him for a 3rd round pick to Pittsburgh and have him light it up with Malkin or Crosby, which he certainly would. They could use a young top-6 winger with his skill. $2M would look like a bargain if he put up 60 points.

  114. spOILer says:

    Garrioch yammering on in the fishwrap this morning about the lack of 2nd tier UFA signings and collusion amongst team execs to drive their price down.

    Inertia seems to be everywhere.

    Goes on to say:

    Tanguay has had interest from the Oilers, Panthers, Islanders and Lightning. The indications are the best offer he's received has been for $1.2 million a season.

    But it is Garrioch.

  115. Yeti says:

    spOILer – probably a misprint. He could get four times that in Russia, and there's no way he goes to an NHL team for under $3m+.

  116. DanMan says:

    Phil's are getting Cliff Lee, isn't that 3 lefties in the rotation now?

    Why would they not go for Halladay?

  117. Traktor says:

    "Why would they not go for Halladay?"

    Why would they when they could just fleece Cleveland?

    JP was asking for much, much more.

  118. DanMan says:

    I really want the Jays to trade him this year. The ROI would be huge, compared to trading him in January or next season

  119. kris says:

    God, let's hope we can get a bargain on Tanguay for a year. I'm not sure how he fits into the lineup, but he can actually play the game.

  120. DanMan says:

    If it is 1 one year at under $2 mil, count me on-board. I don't know where he would fit here, either. But at that bargain price, he could play on the 3rd line, why not.

  121. PDO says:

    There's no way Tanguay has only been offered $1,200,000 a season, unless he has some sort of terrible injury that nobody knows about.

    That said, if he's coming cheap, we should be all over it…

  122. Traktor says:

    #10 is the most overpaid player in all of professional sports.

    Sure the guy can play some defense but that's the only thing he can do. His offensive game is an absolute joke.

    How many more years am I going to have to watch that fucker whiff time after time?

    The club is going nowhere as long as its anchored down to that disgusting contract.

    Chill! Chill! I'm talking about Vernon Wells.

  123. Bruce says:

    Garrioch yammering on in the fishwrap this morning about the lack of 2nd tier UFA signings and collusion amongst team execs to drive their price down.

    A huge majority of teams are in cap hell, especially looking forward to 2010-11. I would expect a high percentage of one-year deals from here forward, with middle-tier players signing for much less than presumed "market value" (e.g. Biron, 1 year, $1.4 MM). The crunch on veterans was discussed on more than one thread here in the last year.

    Traktor: Good one. And, you're right. Even without a salary cap, that obscene contract is a millstone. JPR is the JFJ of baseball.

  124. Mr DeBakey says:

    "Tanguay has had interest from the Oilers, Panthers, Islanders and Lightning. The indications are the best offer he's received has been for $1.2 million a season."

    That's crazy
    No way
    Someone, about 26 teams, should be going higher than that.

  125. Bruce says:

    "Tanguay has had interest from the Oilers, Panthers, Islanders and Lightning."

    If this report has a grain of truth, it must be discouraging to be Tanguay. The only teams that are interested are a) lowballing and b) the dregs of the league.

  126. Coach pb9617 says:

    Oilers willing to pay $7.5 million and Cogliano, Smid and Penner for Heatley, but only willing to pay $1.2 million for Tanguay?

    Wait a second. This is the Oilers. They shoot the moon and bid against themselves and then lowball the useful parts.

    Carry on.

  127. DanMan says:

    coach: you have two players:

    #1 6'3" 220 50, 50, 41, and 39 goals since the lockout.

    #2 6'0" 190 29, 22, 18, and 16 goals since 05

    Thats a big difference. $6 million difference? to me, yes.

  128. Traktor says:

    Looks like Tambellini found his Heatley replacement.

  129. digger says:

    When a softish but undeniable talent like Tanguay is being left to twist in the breeze like this and (if Garrioch is to be believed, yes I know that's a silly thing to do) is apparently only drawing what amounts to meager interest from the club-foots and hairlips of the NHL, you have to wonder if there's an off ice issue that is more than a trivial matter.

  130. DBO says:

    Did he really sign reddox

  131. DBO says:

    Guess he did. got the Oilers email saying he signed Reddox and Potulny. No details on two way deals or not

  132. Bruce says:

    Fun fact: Among active players Alex Tanguay ranks 9th in career +/- at +157. Only one guy in the top 15 (Pavel Datsyuk, +159) has made the list in less time than Tanguay's 9 seasons; the rest are mostly guys well into their 30s if not beyond.

    Dany Heatley's +47 ranks well outside the top 50, which is the extent of the list.

  133. Black Gold says:

    Bruce, it might be interesting to see the qualteam and qualcomp for those nine seasons, eh?

    08/09

    Heatley
    5v5
    GFON/60 2.88
    GAON/60 3.13
    5v4
    GFON/60 5.80

    Tanguay
    5v5
    GFON/60 3.32
    GAON/60 2.28
    5v4
    GFON/60 8.19

    It's not like either are that physical, or are expected to be.
    I'm not going to pretend they are.

    Heatley:
    Hits/60 3.12
    Tanguay:
    Hits/60 3.51

    I know who I want.

    Tanguay for less than half the cap hit of Heatley? Yes please.

    Keeping a great value contract in Cogs? Fantastic.

  134. DanMan says:

    I used to think having a former 50-goal man in the prime of his career would be great for the Oilers.

    But looking at the qualcomp and qualteam stats, I can clearly see that I am sadly mistaken.

  135. R O says:

    I used to think having a former 50-goal man in the prime of his career would be great for the Oilers.

    But looking at the qualcomp and qualteam stats, I can clearly see that I am sadly mistaken.

    Who cares about context right?
    50 gaols!!!

  136. Bruce says:

    Bruce, it might be interesting to see the qualteam and qualcomp for those nine seasons, eh?

    Yeah of course, BG, I was going to mention that but figured someone else would. :) One of the shortcomings of +/- is lack of context, however, on the scale of careers it starts to become meaningful IMO. Not too many Lidstroms and Datsyuks out there who play on nothing but strong teams.

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