Penner for Zherdev?

Word today that Nikolai Zherdev has been awarded $3.9M after his arbitration hearing. It’s a one-year deal.

Would you trade Penner for him straight up? There are rumblings NYR will walk away from this award, meaning teams can sign him via free agency. However, Steve Tambellini has suggested the Oilers need to send out a contract in order to bring one in.

Is this a match?

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

46 Responses to "Penner for Zherdev?"

  1. godot10 says:

    Penner is critical in front of the net if the Oilers hope to have a superior power play. Although he doesn't dish out punishment, he is about the only Oiler forward willing and able to take it over and over in the tough areas in front of the net.

    Zherdev doesn't add anything that the Oilers don't already have. He is just another perimeter forward.

    Why take MacT's word on Penner? MacT also had no use for Hejda.

    This grass is greener stuff is stupid, IMHO. The problem in finding a winger for Hemsky is as much Hemsky as it is finding a winger. MacT refused to do anything to fix the flaws in Hemsky's game. And all he could do was see flaws in Penner's game.

    I want to see what Quinn can do with Penner.

  2. godot10 says:

    I okay with trading for Zherdev is Nilsson is the guy going, not Penner.

  3. Traktor says:

    If you're starting a team from scratch then you can make a case for Zherdev but if you're asking who will compliment our roster more then the answer is Penner easily.

    What does it say about Zherdev when he leads the Rags in scoring and NY deems him expendable?

    His zero points in 7 playoff games last year coincides with his reputation.

    I could see Atlanta making a push for Zherdev to keep Kovalchuk happy. Armstrong seems like a Torts type of player.

  4. oilerdago says:

    I like Penner's body in front of the net, but to only have to take back Zherdev for 1 season is very tempting.

  5. doritogrande says:

    Why would either team trade a big winger for another big winger? They're both perimeter players and play smaller than their size warrants. They can both line up on a team's first line and contribute between 20 and 30 goals per season.

    Offer them Staios and a pick, and see what happens.

  6. Lowetide says:

    dorito: It gives the Oilers a shorter contract (more freedom) and a chance to audition Zherdev. I'm not certain the Rangers would want Penner but with Zherdev gone they do have a top 6F opening.

    Zherdev is an interesting player. I think the "he didn't score in the playoffs" reason isn't a good one, over the course of time players score at a rate similar to established levels. Zherdev is a shooter (219 shots) and has some size.

  7. hunter1909 says:

    This bandwagon Rangers fan says no.

  8. Coach pb9617 says:

    I'm starting to hate your hatred of Penner.

  9. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    @LT

    I doubt the Rangers would take on Penner's contract but perhaps Nilsson and Staios would work.

  10. Lowetide says:

    Coach: I don't hate Penner, he has some good things.

  11. Paper Designer says:

    Would I? Sure. Having four million clear off the books just in time for the projected cap drop seems like a great thing to me, and allows you to make some decisions on your top six going forward.

    Zherdev and Penner are probably a wash for what they do for your hockey team, but the more favorable cap situation with Zherdev would make him preferable.

  12. pboy says:

    I think I fall in the "let's see what happens with Penner under Quinn/Renney" grouping. If the Oilers could package Nilsson and Staios for Zherdev, I would make that move in a heartbeat. Zherdev is a natural right winger, so he would have to play on his off-wing if he was paired with Hemmer and the Oilers went down that road last season with only so-so success.

  13. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    One thing to bear in mind is the Rangers have only 5 NHL defensemen signed so they will likely be looking for help there if there is any deal.

  14. Lowetide says:

    I think they plan on using that kid (Nigel Williams?) along with Sanguinetti who has a full AHL season under his belt.

  15. Lowetide says:

    Matt Gilroy. Sorry.

  16. pboy says:

    I was looking at the Rangers team to see if there was anyone else the Oilers would want in a package deal for Zherdev and I noticed that Michal
    Rozsival is going to make $7,000,000 this season. Michal Rozsival!?!?!?

    What the hell is Sather doing there?

  17. shep says:

    you are wrong. rozsival was making 7M last year, he will make 6M this coming season, his cap hit is 5M.
    he's doing ok playing tough competition.

  18. Bank Shot says:

    I assume the Rangers won't want much if any salary back in a Zherdev trade.

    Even without taking him into account the Rangers have about $8 million to re-sign Dubinsky and 6 other roster fillers.

    Adding Penner or Zherdev to that gives them $4 million on Dubinsky and 5 roster spots.

    Pretty tight.

  19. reijo29 says:

    I do the deal for Cap reasons, however, it basically means that POS will be first line LW and that Cogliano will be 2nd line LW.
    Not sure that is the way to go. I think Cogs only real chance of success on the wing will be if he plays the right side with Gags, which is where I think Zherdev would likely slot in, unless we trade Cogs in another deal for a winger with some size.
    19-10-83
    13-89-Zherdev
    18-78-34
    22-67-46
    Top 6 would be the smallest in the league I assume.

  20. SierraRacs says:

    Seeing Zherdev is a RW and Penner is left, this is not a first line solution. I can see Quinn wanting both Penner and Zherdev. Costs are the major concern here. While I am not ready to ship off Staios until I see him at training camp, other trade options might work out instead. Nilsson and another smallish forward might make this a deal.

  21. Scott says:

    reijo:

    Cogs has stated his positional preference in interviews this season:

    Center
    Left Wing
    Right Wing

    The only thing I'm not sure is if defense comes before or after goalie…

  22. Kyle says:

    I would rather have Penner than Zherdev.

  23. RiversQ says:

    Penner for Zherdev would be a lateral move I think.

    As for "MacT's word on Penner…"

    1) it's not much different from Carlyle's word on him. So Dustin's 0 for 2 on NHL coaches. He's on his last chance now.

    2) like it or not, the word is that MacT still has someone's ear in personnel…

    I think Penner's expendable because his contract sucks, but let's make sure we're moving forward when he's gone.

  24. RiversQ says:

    Just to add, if they could get him and keep Penner that could be useful. I maintain that the Oilers are short 2-3 top sixers and Zherdev could help that.

    Blair Betts or Malhotra won't be nearly enough.

  25. hunter1909 says:

    People are idiots. Anyone who seriously thinks the NHL won't cook it's own books if/when it's cap drops in order to let it's overstuffed budgets off the hook is no more than a big baby, a virgin, a lamb ready for the shearer.

    Just for the record, I also don't care what happens in the pathetic world of NHL business. It's a small sport, with little global clout = oops make that zero global clout.

    I just happen to have grown up around the sport, having been raised in a place that rivals Stalingrad for weather.

    The point of this rant? That somehow or other, the NHL will worm out of it's projected cap dropping, so that it's member teams will not suffer any more than necessary. It's their fucking league guys. They write the rules.

    Zherdev please. Ask Ranger fans what they think of this bum. Penner you know has had to play for a poor coach, who was unable to play to any of his player's strengths(slugs excepted), and by this alientated his entire team, slugs excepted.

    Maybe Penner is a bum, like Nilsson, like Schremp, like Rita, like Salmallailen, like any skilled player under MacJustGot Fired. But he's a big s.o.b., and is highly intelligent, and with a similarly intelligent coach replacing the unintelligent coach who's just left, I'll happily bet all my Canadian Tire money that Penner scores 30-35 goals next season, easy.

  26. RiversQ says:

    Man, I love the comments section here.

    Lucid dreams.

  27. Racki says:

    My preference is to hang on to Penner. Penner for Zherdev is a lateral move, as someone else mentioned.

    Nilsson for Zherdev would be good though, but we'd also need to free up a bit more cap space in order for it to work. Not so sure the Rangers would be dying to jump on our higher priced players, but Staios and Nilsson was a good suggestion by "Fake Craig MacTavish".

    Only issue I have with acquiring Zherdev is that it would ensure that someone like Cogliano is stuck on line 3 again. Would like to see a better opportunity for him this year. But maybe the Oil might bump someone like O'Sully to #1C and drop Horcoff to a good 2-way line, like Moreau Horcoff Pisani.

  28. Racki says:

    Here was kind of what I was thinking:
    Penner O'Sullivan Hemsky
    Cogliano Gagner Zherdev
    Moreau Horcoff Pisani
    JFJ/Pouliot Brule/Pouliot Stortini

    Souray Gilbert
    Visnovsky Grebeshkov
    Smid Strudwick

  29. R O says:

    @Hunter:

    The scary thing is that you might actually believe what you're saying.

  30. dave says:

    it seems that what the coaches say is different than what the stats say. Shit MacT gave him a grasshockey stick and Stortini and he was still our third best forward, tied his skates together, and when he could'nt break him on PK he put him in the PB.

    I'm ok with signing him. Not at the expense of Penner.

  31. Lowetide says:

    I don't think Nilsson has a lot of value, not with the cap so tight and all. He had a nice 5×5/60 number in 07-08 but couldn't improve on it.

    It's become a contract that is likely tough to move.

  32. RiversQ says:

    Dave: The stats on Penner aren't all roses. He's definitely got some failings and that has a lot to do with the coaches' criticism I think. Also, saying the third best forward on this team last year means a lot less than you might think ;) The depth is awfully thin.

    I think a major part of Penner's criticism comes from high expectations though. They just can't believe that a guy with all these tools and who is clearly not an idiot isn't capable of much more than he has shown.

  33. Coach pb9617 says:

    Nilsson and a prospect for Zherdev.

    Nash?
    Eberle?

    One of Wilhorny?

  34. Racki says:

    @Lowetide:

    In response to Nilsson not having any value, obviously the same can be said about Zherdev though if he is on the outs in New York. 3.9M compared to 2M.

  35. Bruce says:

    If I've figured it right, because Zherdev played as an underage before the lockout, he will be UFA at the end of the one-year contract. Expiring contracts aren't all bad oif course, but there's no reason to build around them.

    Zherdev's boxcars look nice, but I agree with those who describe him as another perimeter player. I know RTSS isn't for everyone, but Zherdev finished 19th among NYR in hits last year. Penner meanwhile was 7th among the Oilers, and was tops among those projected for the top six in 2009-10.

    Zherdev is bigger than some of the smurfs but he doesn't play big at all, and a further downsizing (literally) of our top two lines doesn't seem like a good plan at all.

  36. Vic Ferrari says:

    Yeah, Penner was Carlyle's whipping boy. I saw Penner good in the AHL during the lockout year. He was playing for Cincy, I think, against the Roadrunners in Rexall. Chistov and Lupul were the big names on the other squad, but he was clearly their best player. He couldn't be stopped coming off the boards, and good hands for a big guy.

    Chistov was awful, Lupul was invisible except when he showed up to get a couple of scoring chances. Joffer struck me as Brett Hull Lite, really. An opportunist, but never a guy who would create opportunities. I suspect that will always be his M.O., he should do just fine in ANA, but not so well on a team that that doesn't have the puck a lot.

    And Torres in the AHL was like Messier in the NHL during his prime. Clearly better than everyone sles on the ice, swearing loud enough for the kids in the high seats to hear, and playing a lot of indifferent shifts. Flat out too good for the league when he was trying, though.

    I remember hitting hockeydb when I got home, and Penner's stats were sub-Winchester. He looks to have turned it around in the AHL the next year though, in spectacular, Demitraesque fashion.

    The guy really should be better. Someone that big, with hands … how the hell does he lose so many puck battles? He should win almost all of them. It's inexplicable, and random. It's not funny when he's being run power vs power, because the bad guys are the types that can capitalize then.

    Coaches have their faves though, this is a new chance for Dustin, let's hope he doesn't screw it up. I remember Ted Nolan talking about Yashin (a vastly underrated player IMO, very hard on the puck) … you could tell he hated the guy. Isles players would make mistakes all over the ice, but if Alexei screwed up Tedwould come unhinged and they'd have a two hour chat in his office the next day.

    And Ted is full of love, you must be a unique kind of infuriating to get under his skin. Ted also gave an interview re "why is Robert Nilsson still in the minors" that is reminiscent of MacTavish's comments on Rob Schremp. Usually Ted is impossibly optimistic, prendergastish even, about prospects. On the belaboured Nilsson question … a surly "I've seen him play 5 or 6 times this year. He's in the right league." Damn. Those are the only two guys besides Hasek that he ever turned on.

    And just say no to Zherdev, BTW. Renney's bench management built those counting numbers, so I'm sure the Oilers know full well that this is a guy who won't beat the contract. I can't get to worried that they'll make a play for him.

  37. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Sather might still be drunk from the celebration for getting rid of the Gomez contract so he might actually do Penner for Zherdev.

    If he sobers up he doesn't do it. They won't want any salary back. That's why they're walking away from the the Zherdev arb. award in the first place.

    I'm predicting Gainey is fired by the start of next season by the way.

  38. Vic Ferrari says:

    SK Oiler Fan?

    Really? I think he made a mistake getting rid of Gomez. Though if Gaborik stays healthy they won't feel it.

    I think that Gomez is a very good player who has been bit by the precentages a bit over the last couple of years. GMs always like players in this situation a tonne more than messageboard fans, still, I'm surprised that Gainey had to pay fair value.

  39. godot10 says:

    //1) it's not much different from Carlyle's word on him. So Dustin's 0 for 2 on NHL coaches. He's on his last chance now.//

    Yep…Carlyle "hated" him so much, he played him with Getzlaf and Perry. And got30 goals out of him. When Kunitz, got hurt in the run, he went to fill in on Selanne's line. Yep…Carlyle really "hated" him, but he played him anyway.

  40. Vic Ferrari says:

    godot10:

    Carlyle was vocal with his opinion. It may interfere with your root, root, rooting for the home squad and hailing the of the new king, but it is the way it is.

    And Carlyle kept Penner away from quality opposition at all costs.

    In fairness, Penner has improved dramatically as an all around player since he became an Oiler. Though, it would seem, not enough for the coaching staff's liking.

  41. godot10 says:

    Carlyle stilled used Penner to best effect, so much so that he attracted an offer sheet. He didn't let his feeling about a player affect his use of the player to help the team win.

  42. R O says:

    Carlyle stilled used Penner to best effect, so much so that he attracted an offer sheet. He didn't let his feeling about a player affect his use of the player to help the team win.

    Carlyle could afford to have a difference-maker-potential winger be a soft-minute scorer instead, because so many other pieces were in place for the Ducks and they were in a position to win a championship. I don't think you could make the argument that the Oilers were in the same position last year. Penner becoming a better player two years from now (at the cost of not making 8th place last year) seems like it is more beneficial to the Oilers.

  43. Vic Ferrari says:

    Penner got way more ice time from MacTavish than he ever did from Carlyle. In fairness Carlyle had a lot more good players to hide him behind.

    And Penner was scratched 4 times in two years as an Oiler, all of them in the second year, and at least one of them when the Oilers playoffs hopes were already dashed.

    MacTavish played Penner in a way that bumped his stats. Because he had to. That's what burnt his ass, I think.

    Something for you to think about, as you sit knee to knee with Hunter and Traktor, prying the top off of a big can of Behr's new "Irony Orange" alkyd.

  44. Black Dog says:

    I remember Penner in '06 and everytime he got the puck deep in the Oilers' zone I almost shit my pants. He was just so damn strong and he could barely be moved.

    And the last year I remember the Leafs' game and Alex Steen knocking him off the puck.

    He's an oddball. Smart guy by all accounts, has all of the tools but he was busted down to the fourth line by Carlyle a lot in his one full year in Anaheim.

    And we know the whole MacT deal.

    Lets hope Quinn's "they're all men, they're all professionals" deal plays well with him.

    As for Zherdev well if the Oilers had any room to take him on capwise then I think they could get him for less then Penner especially if he is UFA next summer. I would guess the Rangers wouldn't want another big contract though who knows what Sather is smoking these days.

    Its moot anyhow. They're in salary cap hell and unless they eat contracts they will remain there. And they are thin again, especially up front.

    I've said it before and will say it again – Tambellini is putting all of his eggs in the Quinn basket. I thought MacT did a poor job last season but with very few changes in the offing here it looks like Tambellini was not too impressed either

  45. Vic Ferrari says:

    Traktor,

    If Howson wasn't an NHL GM, Hejda might have been his team mate.

    Though Mike Johnson was really Lowetide's hobby horse (and he had a valid point), you should probably spit your venom in his direction. This year Hilbert, Kostopolous, Betts, Malhotra, and surely a dozen others fit the same bill, though. His point, which was surely lost on you, was that the Oilers needed more good NHL forwards, guys who are hard on the puck, drive the play the right way, and can go out there against anyone.

    Sjostrom would have been a good pickup, which was applauded by non fan-boys all over the place on this side of HF, as were the Glencross and Bourque signings (at reasonable dollars) last year.

    By the by, I went to HFboards the other day to and had a search for MikeComrie'sGhost's posts, as well as Rivers, oilswell and a few others … turns out I'm a rockstar over there. People are imagining arguments they've had with me and all sorts. It's very cool. Tyler has gotten that thing for years, I had no idea that I'd become so famous.

    So, knowing that … hand on heart, Traktor, is it a bit of a thrill just to know I've read one of your comments on a blog? Be honest. I'm a freaking HFboards rock star, dammit. You should feel privileged, no?

  46. Vic Ferrari says:

    BDHS:

    Tambellini had Penner, Smid and Cogliano on the trading block up until a couple of days ago. That's hard to ignore.

    It's a shame I wasn't reading here when the Lowetiders were imagining on ice strategy over here in the winter.

    Firstly, it would have been funny. Secondly, maybe I could have stemmed it before it got to fanboard levels of silliness. More correctly, if one guy makes an effort to slap at stupid … other cats tend to show up to do the same. It seems that was missing this past winter.

    C'est la vie.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca