Rear Window

Being an Oiler fan this summer is kind of like spying on Raymond Burr in the Hitchcock classic “Rear Window.” People are acting strange, there’s desperation everywhere, all the major events seem to be happening just outside the rear window and if you listen closely there are whispers about all kinds of terrifying things.

I am in no way associated with the Edmonton Oilers or anyone in their employ. Although I do have strong media contacts none of them have offered me any information about this summer (save for the items I’m about to quote). And yet, Edmonton is a series of small towns in a big city and people talk about things. So, even though it’s nothing at all and will never happen, I’ve heard from three different sources that the “Heatley to Oilers” deal is still on and will be completed soon. Crazy, huh? Maybe Eklund should move to Leduc.

I’ve quoted Jason Gregor interviews and posts a few times over the years, specifically here and here. I know Jason, have for years and although we’re not buddies or anything if we saw each other in a bar we’d have a beer and share a few stories for sure. You should know he owes me nothing nor I he, and that there are no outside forces causing me to write this down.

I think Gregor is an extremely credible source on all things Edmonton Oilers. I don’t know where he gets his information and don’t care, but when he posts specific things about line combinations and thought process it’s best to pay attention. His latest is here. Please click through because I’m going to quote him heavily and it’s only fair his site gets some hits in exchange for my theft.

  1. It sounds more and more like Andrew Cogliano will get a look at LW when camp opens. Makes sense and this isn’t earth-shattering. We’ve talked at length about that through the summer, his inability in the FO circle and slow progress with positioning made him an obvious candidate to move from C.
  2. Don’t be surprised if Dustin Penner takes a few shifts on the RW as well. I think Penner has been effective on LW but whatever floats the boat of the new coach.
  3. Pat Quinn will implement a much more up-tempo style, and that should benefit guys like Nilsson, O’Sullivan and Cogliano. Bottom line is that you better haul ass back with as much effort as you do downhill or the coach is going to be pissed. I’d think this would be a little better for a more experienced hand (O’Sullivan) but we’ll see if the other two have developed over time. Lord knows MacT should get some credit if the light goes on, can we agree on that?
  4. Right now it seems the 3rd and 4th line winger slots are much clearer than the top two lines. Moreau and Pisani are 3rd liners while Jacques and Stortini occupy the 4th line. Which is about what we’re thinking (this mirrors the “reasonable expectations” series I’m doing and seems to make sense based on the organization’s stated goals this summer) and perhaps gives us some insight into how much that 4line will be used early in the season.
  5. Right now only Hemsky and Gagner are locks in the top six. Hemsky will be the 1st line right winger, while Gagner will be one of the top two centres. I don’t believe that to be true, we can name the entire top 6 right now (Horcoff, Penner, Hemsky and then Gagner, O’Sullivan plus Nilsson or Cogliano) by using only 7 names. Gregor’s comments are interesting in that isolating names like that gives us a chance to mull the idea of Gagner and Hemsky on the 1line together. Unlikely, but possible.
  6. Horcoff might find himself on the 3rd line, although I think that’s a long shot. They don’t have the depth and quality to put Horcoff on a 3line and frankly the last time the Oilers had someone of #10′s quality rolling on the 3line Stanley was in town. I’ve suggested in the reasonable expectations series that Horcoff will be relied on for more of a defensive role this season and it seems reasonable Gagner will pass him in total points (but not total value). Shawn Horcoff is the de facto #1 center on this team and despite the complete blind spot many have about him, I believe many NHL teams have inferior men skating at 1line center on their clubs. Horcoff isn’t the problem folks, and he’s more effective on the top opposition line than the 3line.
  7. Nilsson, Penner, O’Sullivan, Cogliano will battle for the other slots, but it seems clear that Quinn wants to evaluate these guys on how they play HIS system, not what they’ve done, or not done, in the previous few years. If Gregor’s correct in saying Hemsky and Gagner are the kingpins of the top 2lines, then we can safely add Shawn Horcoff, Dustin Penner and Patrick O’Sullivan to the group. The choice becomes Robert Nilsson on the 2line wing or Cogliano moving to wing on 1line or 2line, that’s how I see it. Should Cogliano stay at center it seems to me we’re looking at him in a possible 4line role (he’s unlikely to get the gig between Pisani and Moreau which is a spring between Pouliot and Brule unless there’s a trade).

Credit where due: on an August afternoon with very little news he delivered quite a few items of interest. Good on him. I continue to believe the Edmonton Oilers will make a trade in the next few weeks, and there’s always those crazy Heatley rumors.

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83 Responses to "Rear Window"

  1. RiversQ says:

    YOU ARE WRONG.

    Oh, and I have an eerie feeling that this season is going to start really really poorly.

  2. Lowetide says:

    RQ: Have you seen the schedule? The '76 Habs at home and then off to play the '84 Oilers on the road. Jeebus.

  3. hunter1909 says:

    I think most of this stuff adds up, and Horcoff stands a great chance of playing in the 3rd line. Honestly, the guy has HANDS OF STONE.

  4. bookie says:

    If that is so, then it better be for LESS than we were offering before. Pain and Suffering must be taken into account in the deal!

  5. RiversQ says:

    I don't care what the lines are called, if Horcoff isn't playing the most ES minutes by Oiler centres every night, they're fucked.

  6. 40oz says:

    So if Cogs can fit well in the second line as a LWer, then is Nilsson in the pressbox or playing in the bottom six?

  7. Lowetide says:

    Hunter: Your opinion of Shawn Horcoff tells more about you than it does Shawn Horcoff.

    40oz: I think the Oilers trade one of them, and like the Brodziak deal it might be the guy another teams calls about as opposed to the guy they don't want.

  8. godot10 says:

    I want to see an O'Sullivan-Gagner-Penner line (with Penner on RW)…so Gregor's musings please me.

    Cogliano-Horcoff-Hemsky might work as a rush line, and O'Sullivan-Gagner-Penner as a cycle line.

  9. raventalon40 says:

    Nothing pisses me off more than "Horcoff is useless" comments I read and hear all the time.

    This guy gives everything to the Oilers and then some.

  10. 99thoilerfan says:

    How many ?…

    "I've heard from three different sources that the "Heatley to Oilers" deal is still on and will be completed soon" – LT

    Three ? Really ?

  11. Lowetide says:

    I heard the first one maybe a week and a half ago, then another Friday. When it was mentioned today I thought what the hell maybe someone out there has heard something too.

  12. Jonathan Willis says:

    I've been wondering about Penner on RW (given that Cogliano and O'Sullivan are likely LW's and Penner played some RW last year).

    It does make a certain sense – particularly if Godot's line comes about.

  13. oilerdago says:

    //Nothing pisses me off more than "Horcoff is useless" comments I read and hear all the time.

    This guy gives everything to the Oilers and then some.//

    Raventalon40: You're bang on. Horcoff has been a consumate professional and has made himself into a valuable player. To those who can't appreciate him, your words continue to show how little you know about the game.

  14. Greg MC says:

    I beleive that Heatly will never go back to Ottawa.

    Wouldn't suprise me that he ends up here before training camp.

    Someone here said that the Oilers are whale hunting. I agree and wonder is everyone in the top six (except Gagner and Hemsky) in play, Heatly or no Heatly?

  15. PunjabiOil says:

    Heatley to Edmonton isn't completely out of the woods. Certainly possible, especially if Steve Tambellini is right in that Heatley's camp isn't willing to make decisions.

    I think it's reasonable to assess that Heatley's first choice is San Jose, and that he likely has no intention of returning to Ottawa. If by the of the month, Murray can't find a better deal, Heatley will have little leverage left – it may be possible the Oilers deal will still be there.

    Steve keeps things to himself. I don't really believe the conference call was his choice, but rather the bad publicity the Oilers were receiving from both the local media and national media. The conference call was likely to put forth the stance that the organization was bigger than one player, and that the Oilers weren't ''begging'' Heatley to come.

    That said, I don't believe for a second that Steve Tambellini wouldn't be interested in Heatley, should he be willing to waive his NTC later this month.

    Keep in mind Tambellini told the media days before trading Erik Cole that he had no intention of trading him. That stance changed a few days later.

    If I had to bet, I would say Heatley isn't coming here. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen.

  16. PDO says:

    I'm sure LT has better connections than I do, but I can certainly say I've heard similar…

    … and I heard it AFTER the presser, with an explicit explanation that the presser was done simply so stories weren't coming up day after day making the Oilers look like a Micky Mouse franchise.

  17. SK Oiler Fan says:

    I like Tambo's close to his vest mentality. There is no need to tell any member of the media what's going on until it has allready happened. If you were running a multi-million dollar business would you tell anyone outside the org what's shaking? The only people that need to know what's going on are the GMs, and the players after they've been traded.
    These player agents are slime, used car salesmen. I'd guess 95% of info leaked to the MSM comes from agents. ie; Heatly's agents

  18. speeds says:

    It'll be interesting to see, assuming EDM is still interested in Heatley and EDM appears to be the only option come September 7th or so, if EDM will reduce their offer to OTT, thinking they get him even with a reduced offer.

  19. SK Oiler Fan says:

    I'm betting if Heatlygate is back on there would be no discount.

    The Oilers are shooting the moon and Murray/Melnyk seem right pissed off. They might even let Heatly sit for a while if they don't get the trade they're looking for.

  20. PunjabiOil says:

    What is also interesting is that Team Canada's Olympic orientation camp is only 15 days away.

    What will Heatley say? How come the players in Ottawa don't know the reasoning behind this trade request?

  21. PunjabiOil says:

    The Oilers are shooting the moon and Murray/Melnyk seem right pissed off. They might even let Heatly sit for a while if they don't get the trade they're looking for.

    Yup. Ottawa holds the leverage with Heatley, despite the fact the player has the NTC.

    If he doesn't show up at camp, he's suspended, and the Senators will sue him for the $4M bonus.

    Just a bizzare situation all around. Sad too, actually.

  22. SK Oiler Fan says:

    The stupid thing is if Tambo gets his man the same situation could happen next summer.

    09/10: Oilers finish 8th to 11th, Heatley goes 29G, 35A, and demands a trade to a team where he can realistically score 40 again.

    I'm curious LT, what would be your reasonable expectations for Heatley as an Oiler?

  23. Racki says:

    I can't believe some of you guys have delusions of Heatley coming here still. Sorry, but it's over. Time to move on. I'm going to enroll some people in a 12-step program. lol

  24. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Racki,
    It's Aug10th and we've talked ourselves in a circle twice around.

    I'm not betting on Heatly as an Oiler either. Too many bridges to rebuild.

    I'm sure the Oilers are 22nd or so on Heatly's preferred destinations. All we're saying is that if 21 other teams leave you hanging long enough…

  25. PDO says:

    SK Oiler Fan:

    He'd play on a PP with Hemsky and Souray, and play first line minutes with Horcoff and Hemsky.

    50-40-90 is not the least bit unreasonable.

  26. PDO says:

    Just to drive it home, the past 4 seasons, Heatley has gone:

    (Games-Goals-Points-Shooting%):

    82-50-103-16.7
    82-50-105-16.1
    71-41-82-18.3
    82-39-72-15.1

    He's a durable player, it's a lock he's going to shoot 250+ pucks, it's unlikely he'll do anything worse than a 15% shooting mark…

    I think people are really ignoring just how good he is.

  27. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Some highly touted players for the last few years that have come to Edmonton have seen their boxcars suffer.

    Since the lockout the top Oilers goal scorer in a season was Mullet Man with 36 goals.

    I might give Heatley 40G as an Oiler. His assists will suffer as well. Penner's 20G plus will be gone, who else besides Souray is a safe bet to score more than 20?

    Ottawa has had many more NHL players than the Oilers currently have. And one of them would go the other way in a trade. The other two were about to become NHL players. Heatley would have no protection in the batting lineup.

    Having said all of that, that was under the Mac T regime. Quinn's uptempo style will surely see the Oilers return to the 300 goal plateau. Right?? Right??

  28. Steve says:

    who else besides Souray is a safe bet to score more than 20?

    Souray is in no way a "safe bet" to score more than 20. He can do it, obviously, but he's actually been slightly (very slightly) under a 20 goal per 82 games guy since the lockout.

    But your overall point stands – I don't know if there's an Oilers forward other than the two who'd be going the other way who I'd bet even money on scoring twenty. Hemsky maybe.

  29. rickibear says:

    If he doesn't show up at camp, he's suspended, and the Senators will sue him for the $4M bonus.

    he met his summer obligation for the 4M. He went water skiing.

  30. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: Think of me whatever you like. Horcoff is a great player in his own way, but in front of the net he looks like one of those offensive linemen in football trying to recover a fumble.

    These days athletes don't dedicate themselves for their teams. They dedicate themselves for their bank accounts. Douchebags like Dany Heatley(drunken manslaughter), or Pat Kane(drunken old man beater), or even Mike Modano("My dogs get fed filet steak") seem to be the growth character part of the racket, then people wonder why it's popularity is shrinking?

    Let's stop worrying about these creeps like Heatley for f@@k sake. Instead, let's find someone to graft Rob Schremp's head onto Horcoff's torso, and we've got a superstar.

  31. Gord says:

    If the Heatley trade is still on, Cogliano & Penner are gone.

    Which means Gregor's comments about Cogliano & Penner have no basis in reality.

    It has to be one or the other – appears your "three different sources" or Jason Gregor should slip a notch on your credibility scale…

  32. godot10 says:

    //I'm curious LT, what would be your reasonable expectations for Heatley as an Oiler?//

    Heatley would have to play 8 games against Regehr and a physical Calgary defense.

    Heatley would have to play 8 games against Mitchell and a physical Vancouver defense.

    Heatley would have to play 8 games agains Schultz and Burns.

    And well, eight games against Foote and Hannan would not be much fun either.

    The West is a lot stronger conference than the East.

    So I figure Heatley is as big a bust as Lupul. Heatley isn't a very good player once he is hit. He will get hit in the Western Conference and the Northwest division.

  33. uni says:

    Hunter: I think you mean Rob Schremp's hands and offensive flair onto Horcoff's body and head. No way you want to forfeit Horcoff's hockey sense (in all zones).

    Also from what I see people don't think unfavourably of you for what you're saying, it's more in how you say it. It's obvious from some of your comments that you either lack some restraint or you're just flat out trying to initiate some sort of negative reaction.

    I believe people post here for informative, or just plain fun discussions. From what I've seen many threads end up being golden. Intelligent well thought out and outright funny posters frequent these comments sections much to the delight of lurkers like me. However, some posters full of vitriol remind me sometimes of posts on some other websites that shall remain unnamed.

    The "HANDS OF STONE" comment could easily be amended to "I don't think Horcoff has the offensive ability befitting the #1 C position on a successful club" or some such.

    As for the Kane, Modano et al remarks you made, well I'll just leave them be. LT is correct, your comments reflect more on yourself than those you are commenting on and you are doing yourself a disservice, I'll just leave it at that.

  34. NormanMendoza says:

    In 07-08, before the shoulder surgery put him out — all the news was about Horcoff's custom made sticks. He was shooting, getting good snap and getting the puck towards the net. Reasoner and Stoll were around to take on a bunch of the faceoffs. Too lazy to look, but I think his faceoff percentage was lower in this year.

    In 08-09, with Horcoff taking pretty much 50% of the team's draws — isn't it possible that he switched sticks back? He was better on the dot, but worse shooting.

    Anyone have a source that could help find that out?

    Namflashback

  35. NBOilerFan says:

    I remember reading this in a Matheson article…

    Is the door slammed shut, and bolted, on Heatley?

    "Yes," said Tambellini. "I thought we did everything we could."

    And I never believed it for a second.

    Sure, Tambellini might have stopped actively pursuing Heatley as far as calls to his agents and/or Murray, but rest assured, Steve Tambellini made it clear to Murray that if there was any change out of the Heatley camp regarding his willingness to come to Edmonton, that Tambellini made it clear to Murray that they were still be very interested.

  36. NBOilerFan says:

    .. but it is still very interesting that you have heard that a Heatley deal to Edmonton is not only still on, but…

    … will be completed soon.

  37. quain says:

    I don't even understand what's happening with Heatley. How was he not shipped to the exact city he wanted to go to three days after the trade request? I thought it was a rule that if you requested a trade then everyone had to immediately cater to your whims.

    I'm so confused!

  38. NBOilerFan says:

    (Ps – Three sources… what does that equate too… an L4?)

    ;-)

  39. Jonathan Willis says:

    Instead, let's find someone to graft Rob Schremp's head onto Horcoff's torso, and we've got a superstar.

    I think you meant to graft Rob Schremp's hands on to Shawn Horcoff's body; if Schremp had Horcoff's brain he would already be an NHL'er.

  40. bookie says:

    I have heard from credible sources that the Oilers are in talks with the Wild with regards to trading the Heatley Rumours for the Tanguay signing rumours.

    Wild GM Chuck Fletcher indicated that the Rumours of Tanguay signing there "simply has not generated much interest in the press, but there is a belief that a Heatley rumour would take hold in the newspapers and keep the Wild in the spotlight". Given that this is an important time for ticket sales, its reasonable that the Wild would be looking for this kind of attention.

    Meanwhile in Edmonton, Oiler El Presidente Klowe commented "The Heatley thing has really run its course here. Its time for a new rumour. We are barely able to get a new Heatley article in the papers every third day. A good Tanguay rumour though would get us 2-3 weeks of coverage, particularly if he could do something exciting like punch out a cabbie or something."

    I for one am not happy about this. I am really enjoying the never ending saga of Heatley and would hate to pass all of this fun onto Minnesota fans.

  41. Showerhead says:

    Am I the only one who isn't excited by this news? Sure a little bit of roster projection is enough to whet the August appetite but lines change often enough that none of this should be etched in stone or even written in ink.

    You can shuffle these chairs however you want – there's still a leak in the bow that could sink this ship within sight of land come Spring 2010.

    /end Gloomy Gus

  42. Lowetide says:

    Showerhead: No. I'm not in favor of the deal as it stands.

  43. Showerhead says:

    Apparently I'm a huge pessimist today.

    I haven't honestly thought much about the Oilers' upcoming season while the sun's been out and I've gotten paid to enjoy it.

    Now that I do think about it, I see a roster that needs to stay healthy and see its kids improve just to get to the point where their slightly worse goaltending gets washed out. End result? Exactly the same.

    It's quite sad actually.

  44. Showerhead says:

    I think it's obvious but I meant to include some words that say I'm comparing the upcoming season to 08/09.

  45. Smarmy Boss says:

    ARRRGGGGH

    People typing Heatly when they mean Heatley is almost bothering me as much as when people type loose when they mean lose.

    Rant over.

  46. Showerhead says:

    Smarmy: Does the Gagne/Gagner thing get you too? Or Shremp?

    How about random apostrophes when people pluralize things?

    /stops adding fuel to the flames ;)

  47. Sean says:

    I think its possible the Heatley to Edmonton deal is closed but 3-way discussions are still open and Ottawa still considers Edmonton's offer the best available. SJ doesn't have much that interest me though – especially Marleau or Cheechoo. But if the Oilers can package players (contracts) for another player and fill roster spots with remaining UFAs (which at this point should be value buys) I'm all for it.

    Of course speculation at this point.

  48. Cameron says:

    Lets clear up some of the Heatley-hate garbage;

    - It was Ottawa brass who leaked the trade request, not Heatley or his agent. Heatley kept the request quiet for around a month prior to it hitting the press.

    - His request came after he tried to resolve his differences 'in house' – from all reports, the Ottawa brass did nothing.

    - Rather than shoot his face off in the papers, Heatley has kept his reasoning to himself, a far more professional stance then beaking to every reporter who shoves a microphone in his face.

    - Clouson was Heatley's fourth coach in four years, and from all appearances gave both Alfie and Spezza a free ride for their lacklustre play while targetting Heatley for reduced pp time, and ice-time. If you look at Heatley's numbers they are down, but he still finished second in team scoring overall, and first in goals. Indeed, if anyone deserved NOT to have his ice-time cut, it was Heatley.

    - Heatley is a mortal lock to make team Canada's top line (Heatley/Getzlaf/Nash).

    - Heatley was not drunk when he killed Dan Snyder. There was excessive speed, but no alcohol involved, which puts him ahead of MacT in terms of character faults.

    - Heatley has not said he will not report to Ottawa.

    - It was Murray's cynical use of the Oilers brass that should piss off Oiler faithful – Murray accepted bids from Tambo knowing full well Heatley did not have Edmonton on his list, and he did it purely to drive up the price he was seeking from the Rangers. If you want to bitch about people treating Edmonton badly, focus your wrath in the proper direction.

    - Not only can Heatley be a 40+ goal man for Edmonton, I think Hemsky is the perfect linemate for him along with Horcoff. Hemsky sets it up, Heatley finishes, and Horcoff minds the high end of the offensive zone.

    - Speaking of Horcoff, I have to say I never thought he'd amount to much, but he has turned into what I think of as a pure #2 center. He does everything well, but isn't spectacular at anything. He may top out as a 70pt guy, but he won't ever hurt you with his play, and he can play the hard minutes whenever asked. Hands of stone? Meh. Nobody paying any attention can say that of him with a straight face.

  49. geowal says:

    is almost bothering me as much as when people type loose when they mean lose.

    It's amazing how prevalent that is, beyond sports comment sections to general news. It's like the whole country got together and changed the spelling without telling me.
    There are an awful lot of "loosing" teams out there apparently.

  50. Travis Dakin says:

    @ Cameron

    That was beautiful.

  51. NBOilerFan says:

    Cameron said…
    - It was Murray's cynical use of the Oilers brass that should piss off Oiler faithful – Murray accepted bids from Tambo knowing full well Heatley did not have Edmonton on his list, and he did it purely to drive up the price he was seeking from the Rangers. If you want to bitch about people treating Edmonton badly, focus your wrath in the proper direction.

    I agree with basically everything you said but I have two comments regarding the above;

    (1)It's true that Edmonton was not on the original list, but Murray stated to the media that he had told Heatleys camp that the Oilers were very interested and asked if he could continue the discussions and was told yes. He obviously went to far regarding accepting a deal without Heatleys camps approval, but he publically stated that he had their approval to continue discussions with the Oilers.

    (2) He didn't accept the deal with Tambellini to "drive up the price", he did so to make a trade which he felt was fait value.

  52. RiversQ says:

    Tambellini may be the GM, but I'm sure Murray has been thinking of the Comrie fiasco while dealing with Edmonton here.

    As for the rest of Cameron's post, I think it's pretty accurate. Heatley is far from an angel, but there has been some crazy character assassination out there this summer.

  53. Bruce says:

    It was Murray's cynical use of the Oilers brass that should piss off Oiler faithful

    Lest we forget: the Oilers brass cynically used Brian Murray in their own vendetta campaign against a recalcitrant player (Mike Comrie) not so many years ago. I'm sure Murray himself has not forgotten.

  54. Bruce says:

    RiversQ: You won the race that time. :)

  55. Cameron says:

    NBOiler Fan said:

    (1)…(Murray) publicly stated that he had their approval to continue discussions with the Oilers.

    (2) (Murray) didn't accept the deal with Tambellini to "drive up the price", he did so to make a trade which he felt was fair value.

    - I suspect (and it should be taken as mere suspicion) that Murray approached the Heatley camp and said 'I have an offer from the Oilers in hand, can I use it to assist my negotiations with the Rangers/Sharks, etc.?' To which I am certain his agent would have said 'yes'. Given Murray's public comments and how they are phrased, it seems clear Heatley never gave them a go-ahead to do a deal with the Oilers – but that he assented to having them part of the negotiations as leverage on the teams he did want to go to.

    As for Heatley's 'fair market value', if Murray had possessed even a modicum of common sense he would have dealt Heatley quietly for his best value before he (or someone in his office) leaked the trade request. Once Ottawa leaked the demand, their trade position was shot.

    Everything else Murray has done can be seen as attempting to create an auction atmosphere for Heatley to compensate for the criminally stupid inaction earlier. But by waiting so long to do anything constructive, Murray has watched cap space around the league evaporate, fiddled while possible destinations for Heatley are reduced, and bleated to the press as Heatley's 'fair market value' is now essentially whatever the Sharks want to offer.

    Taken all together, its one of the most shockingly inept sequences of actions by hockey mgt I can recall;

    - Heatley's trade demand could have been avoided by smoothing things out internally. It wasn't.

    - Heatley could have been traded quietly for full value. He wasn't.

    - Ottawa brass leaks the trade demand, destroying the potential for trades. Well done.

    - Ottawa cynically involves the Oilers on false pretenses. Way to make friends.

    - Ottawa brass openly blames Heatley, and whips up the media to make him the villain for not accepting a trade to the Oilers.

    - Ottawa signs Kovalev (for stupid money) to replace Heatley, moving them well over the cap. Sure, Heatley can come back, and Murray doesn't HAVE to trade him. Riiight.

    I've seen teams clusterf*ck situations before, but this has to be a record.

  56. Hockey Noob says:

    Heatley to Edmonton still on? (L2). lol…

  57. gogliano says:

    Since we are airing grievances:

    Compliment and complement are two different words with two different meanings. A complementary player or a complementary X makes something whole. A complimentary player is one who likes to praise or compliment things (great job Horc! Way to go Hemmer!).

  58. Showerhead says:

    Whatever, we can't all be entomologists…

  59. bookie says:

    Whatever, we can't all be entomologists…

    nice!

  60. spOILer says:

    Since we're collecting bugs, can I add "tow the line"? This one even shows up in the edited print media. Rarely do I see "toe the line" anymore. There's a couple of other oral catch-phrases like that one running around like unfettered, uncontrolled viruses on the written internet, but I can't remember them at the moment.

  61. spOILer says:

    Sorry, I meant to say "buzzing" not "running".
    ;o)

  62. Steve says:

    Heatley was not drunk when he killed Dan Snyder. There was excessive speed, but no alcohol involved, which puts him ahead of MacT in terms of character faults.

    There was alcohol involved, but he didn't meet the threshold for legal impairment.

  63. 99thoilerfan says:

    Always a good topic,
    You mentioned the Comrie deal..

    Anyone have the coles notes on that?

  64. bookie says:

    I invision that each of you are uniquely centred too much on our linguistic competencies.

  65. NBOilerFan says:

    @ Cameron

    By no means do I think Murray is innocent here. I think he made this far too personal. As far as who leaked the trade request, I have no idea, but I think it will leak at some point no matter what, once a team starts approaching all teams in the NHL with such a bombshell.

    However, I suspect that since the Oilers weren't on the list, when Tambellini called and made an aggressive proposal that Murray called Heatley's agents and asked if he could pursure it further. I suspect Heatley's camp did so to help Murray use that bid to work up competing teams bids which is also in their best interest.

    I think the problem was, Murray made the deal with the Oilers knowing full well that Heatley's camp was not likely to approve it right off because it wasn't one of their list of teams. And he tried to hold the hot iron to them.

    As far as you saying that Murray was "attempting to create an auction atmosphere for Heatley", I have to disagree. That would only really work if he actually had no intention of making the deal with the Oilers. And without a doubt, I believe he wanted to male this deal, it wasn't a gimmick to up other offers.

    I think you are taken this to personal against Murray and its clouding your judgement against Murray.

    I believe Murray spoke with plenty of teams and he wan't getting offers he liked. Understandable as most teams know the poor position he is in. I also believe that the Oilers offer was the only one that he felt was "fair market value" and he knew that since teh Oilers were not on Heatley's preferred list, that it would be a hard sell and he didn't know how long the offer would be on teh table, so he tried to use pressure to make it happen. But Heatley's agents have resisted.

  66. Bruce says:

    Don't MacIntyre's linemates have to "tow the line"?

  67. hunter1909 says:

    uni: You're right of course. I like Horcoff for the smart dependable hockey player he is. My problem is, seeing the Oilers constantly try to push players into roles they clearly don't have the talent for, from what to my mind seems more purely out of "hope" than common sense reasoning.

    It got so bad that last year we were treated to the sight of Smid behind the opposition goal, playing defence while officially playing wing.

    While Horcoff is clearly more suited to where he plays than that, unless he plays defensively aware specialist between a paid of scorers(Hemsky and say, Heatley), to my mind he's going to be a lot more use to the team playing to his strengths, which cap hit notwithstanding isn't on the first line.

    How many times did I have to watch last year as what to my mind was an awesome puck moving back four constantly hammered the puck out of their zone, up ice, only for Horcoff to miss out on a scoring opportunity, or even a decent pass, simply because he doesn't think quickly enough to deal with one golden opportunity after another?

    It's no secret what I thought of MacTavish. It's also becoming apparent that despite the Oilers PR re how valuable MacT was to the Oilers, no one esle in the NHL wants to hire him, in direct contrast to the PR I for one clearly remember hearing about.

    Great and very good hockey teams are invariably built down the middle. The Oilers had Gretzky and Messier, The Penguins Had Mario and even Trottier of all people playing third line center. The Pens today have Crosby and Malkin. The Red Wings had Yzerman and Federov, and the Avs had Sakic and Forsberg. Our auld enemy the Stars had a great Mike Modano.

    Oilers have Sam Gagner, who although looks more to me like a supremely talented major junior player than an NHLer, if he develops just might give the team a guy that approximates some of the above listed names. Cogliano seems like a really good young player, nowhere nearly as good as the hype I read about him, but who knows, he might have what it takes under the new coaching regime to excel.

    If I ran the team I'd get rid of Horcoff, Moreau, Pisani, Staios in a heartbeat – simply to clear cap space. Not one of them is essential to the future of the team, every one has got a grossly expensive paycheck, and aside from Horcoff, every one of them has enough on ice issues to be expendable.

    Of course I'm not running the team, and that's probably a good thing.

  68. Krankor says:

    The one that bugs me is "training regime" or "training regiment". It's regimen. Gah!

  69. hunter1909 says:

    a pair*

    I get excited when reading about internet grammar.

  70. Steve says:

    While Horcoff is clearly more suited to where he plays than that, unless he plays defensively aware specialist between a paid of scorers(Hemsky and say, Heatley), to my mind he's going to be a lot more use to the team playing to his strengths, which cap hit notwithstanding isn't on the first line.

    As I read it, you're saying this team would be better if it had a centre who was even better than Horcoff, so we could bump Horcoff down to the third line. By the same token, I could say that this team would be better if we had a right-winger even better than Hemsky to play on our first line, so we could bump Hemsky down to the second line. Both of these things are true, because adding awesome players to hockey teams makes them better.

    But Hemsky as the first line right-wing isn't the problem, just as Horcoff as first line centre isn't the problem. The problem is Pouliot as the secondary tough minutes centre.

  71. kris says:

    I hate it when people spell 'Steve Staois' wrong and write 'Staios.'

    Even Staois gets it wrong most of the time.

  72. Boondock says:

    It's also becoming apparent that despite the Oilers PR re how valuable MacT was to the Oilers, no one esle in the NHL wants to hire him, in direct contrast to the PR I for one clearly remember hearing about.

    Wouldn't that argument also work against "our saviour" Pat Quinn? How many years did he sit idly by waiting for another job offer?

  73. kris says:

    My dream top 6 forwards and top 4 D:

    Pajarvi-Gagne-Heatly
    Macintyre-Shremp-Pooliot

    Visnevzki-Staois
    Peckam-Grebshekov

    Coach: Quin

  74. Bruce says:

    Kris: Don't forget Rolofson between the pipes.

  75. Smarmy Boss says:

    So Cameron in a round about way you're saying this Heatley fiasco is all Lowe's fault?

    I'm not only fine with that, but I can get behind it.

  76. Travis Dakin says:

    I hate when people use the word "of" when they should be using "have."

    Like, Heatley should "of" just accepted the trade.

    terrible.

  77. hunter1909 says:

    "Wouldn't that argument also work against "our saviour" Pat Quinn? How many years did he sit idly by waiting for another job offer?"

    Of course it does. Quinn was a washed up has been, a fossil, a dinosaur from the 1970's, before the Junior Tournament win.

  78. kris says:

    Bruce:

    I would go for Delauriers or Happybulin.

  79. Lowetide says:

    Wow, I'm going to have to watch my mispelling. :-)

  80. hunter1909 says:

    Using dominate, instead of dominant does it for me.

  81. Bank Shot says:

    Of course it does. Quinn was a washed up has been, a fossil, a dinosaur from the 1970's, before the Junior Tournament win

    Pffft. Your just bias and ignorant.

  82. Cameron says:

    NBOilerFan said: As far as who leaked the trade request, I have no idea, but I think it will leak at some point no matter what, once a team starts approaching all teams in the NHL with such a bombshell.

    - This is impossible to prove because we only ever hear of the trade requests that are made public, and by definition we never hear of the ones that aren't. Here's something to consider, isn't it possible that Joe Thornton asked to be traded out of Boston?

    NBOilerFan:

    As far as you saying that Murray was "attempting to create an auction atmosphere for Heatley", I have to disagree. That would only really work if he actually had no intention of making the deal with the Oilers.

    - I think you had it exactly right until we get to the above statement. It was in Ottawa's and Heatley's interest to involve the Oilers, but only as a tactic. Unfortunately, the tactic backfired when the Rangers publicly pulled their offer leaving the Oiler deal the only one left on the table (as an aside I suspect the Rangers pulled out because they wouldn't include Grachev or Staal in the package).

    NBOilerFan: I think you are taken this to personal against Murray and its clouding your judgement against Murray.

    - I have nothing personal against Murray at all. Players make trade requests all the time, it was Murray that has serially failed to do the best thing for his team at each stage of this debacle.

    NBOilerFan: I believe Murray spoke with plenty of teams and he wan't getting offers he liked.

    - A situation he could have avoided by either resolving the issues with Heatley internally, or by quietly trading him before it went public. He failed to do either.

    NBOilerFan: I also believe that the Oilers offer was the only one that he felt was "fair market value" and he knew that since teh Oilers were not on Heatley's preferred list, that it would be a hard sell and he didn't know how long the offer would be on teh table, so he tried to use pressure to make it happen.

    - I don't disagree that the Oiler's offer was the best remaining option for Murray (however, I think it falls far short of 'fair value').

    I merely make the point that Murray involved the Oilers dishonestly as a tactic to extort a better offer from the Rangers – the other team 'bidding' for Heatley's services as they approached the 'deadline' of the $4M payout.

    When the Rangers publicly pulled the plug Murray was left to try and pull the trigger on a deal with the Oilers, a team he knew would get rejected. And yet he did it anyway knowing he could play the victim card and blame it all on Heatley's NTC.

    Lessee; competitive bids, and a fixed deadline…sounds like a ginned up auction to me.

    Last but not least, I think the Oilers are still in it. If Heatley had told them that under no circumstances would he agree to go, I think Tambo etc. wouldn't have waited at all in holding the PR conference, and would have jumped on the slag the player bandwagon. But they didn't do either of those things. That leads me to think that the actual conversation was more like "I want to see if I can get dealt to San Jose. If that falls through, I'd love to be an Oiler. But Murray is never going to do me any favours so until you back off, this won't go anywhere."

    Personally, I have been betting on him being a Shark from the beginning. But I'd say there is a 1 in 4 chance he wears copper and gold. At least so long as he doesn't read the fan blogs.

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