I’m a big fan of JF Jacques (click on Jacques below) and honestly believe he’s an NHL player, but top 9? Pat Quinn is an interesting guy.
Let's not forget that Jacques 06/07 wasn't so bad.
Granted he was on for no goals in 286 minutes, and posted a 0 GFON/60. However, he also posted a GAON/60 of only 2.30. That's a small sample size, but it's not bad, especially considering the fact that most of the team was much, much worse. And Jacques played decent, though pretty poor comp. (0.006)
Not sure if these numbers really show us much that's positive, but I've always felt that Jacques shouldn't have been judged on his inability to get a point that first season. It didn't tell the whole story behind his play.
If the guy had some luck offensively before the injuries, we might be more excited.
I don't know how much tape Quinn has watched….but maybe he should watch some more?
Jacques certainly has the tools to be a top nine player but has yet to prove he can use them to that extent.
It's going to be an interesting couple months here I think.
Jacques is fast for a man that big. He could be a sleeper who emerges into a larger role this year.
1 big guy on each line – Jacques, Penner, Stortini and Stone, if he ends up in the top 12. I like the balance. The main guys – Hemmer, Horc, O'Sullivan, Comrie, Gags, Cogs will get their extra ice on special teams. I can also see Hemsky and Cogliano being shifted through the lineup within a game to get them extra ice. Maybe Gagner is the future, but I think it'll be Cogliano that really breaks out this year.
I think he would prefer Penner, but perhaps Hemsky would not?
Anyway, I kind of like the set up of the lines. I don't know why, but something seems good…
The four big men, one on each line, will likely be JFJ, Penner, Stortini, and Moreau, not Stone. If Stone makes the team (can he really skate well enough?) it will likely be in the pressbox until injury strikes.
And I'm sure JFJ would only be on the first line part of the time, with other players being subbed in depending on the character of the game.
I still love the possibility of JFJ distracting other team's top defencemen all season. It might open up a ton of room for Horc and Hemmer.
I know I don't have the coaching resume that Pat Quinn does but from where I was sitting for the game against Calgary Jacques on the first line wasn't exactly an experiment which yielded smashing success. I also note the cautionary tale of Jacques stretch where he set pointless records. Jacques should really be a third or fourth line option this year.
I guess we get back to this pairs thing Quinn likes to do. Does anyone do this? I just can't see putting a large guy on each line being of much benefit.
I'm trying not to get too high on JFJ this year. Last year I had big expectations for Nilsson…
Quinn is talking up two guys who he needs to be successful this season. He has praised Penner quite a bit. If Penner stays interested and scores say, 25 to 30 goals, while providing consistency then I think everyone would be happy. Meanwhile JFJ is a guy who has been all tools, no toolbox for a while. One of the issues is probably confidence. Once again, Quinn is talking him up. If the kid gets rolling then he at the very least will be a physical force on a very small club.
And face it if there are any injuries then JFJ will slide up the depth chart regardless. I think Quinn is trying to motivate these guys. The results so far (preseason I know) have been positive.
I guess we get back to this pairs thing Quinn likes to do. Does anyone do this?
Well, during the cup run we saw Horc + Smyth plus a rotating winger (dvorak, winchester, harvey…)
It seemed to work well enough, at least in terms of rolling a top 9 that could score on any line.
I like what Quinn is doing.
One of my customers has a sign in his business: "We have more to fear from inside inefficiency and discourtesy than we do from any competitor."
I've always liked that and found a lot of truth in it.
MacTavish changed the game plan according to who they were playing.
Quinn is trying to find strength in his own group and worrying that the Oilers are being their best first.
I'm excited to see the results because I like the philosophy.
I think when you have 2 talented forwards on a line, you can sometimes add a 3rd less talented individual to take on specific roles designed for them. So, he can act as a 'blocker' at times, make space in front of the net at others, etc. These are things that do not take too much skill, but when done well, they can help a line.
Send the big man to the net, the defenseman has to follow.
If there was one thing this team was bad at last year, it was going to the goddam net.
Except for Zorg, of course.
Andrew Cogliano is going to stand on a phone book and give you a stern talking-to.
Jacques can't mess with Regehr from the 4th line, since Regehr is never on the ice against the 4th line.
Lucic got to mess with Komisarek because he was playing with Savard.
Penner is a cycle player. Quinn has him playing with cycle players in Comire and O'Sullivan, and not with a rush player Hemsky (who is also a puck hog).
Jacques does NOT have to handle the puck playing with Hemsky, he just has to pound defenseman, and get in position to block a shot, or to receive a pass and shoot.
Stortini will create space for Gags and Cogs, and can spot Nilsson there on an occasional shift.
Like I said in the other thread, I'm beginning to feel a touch of man-love for Quinn.
Forget about numbering the damn lines.
Or look at it from the glass half empty perspective:At one point they had Heatley on 1 line LW, now JFJ. Horc and Hemmer better start shooting more because JFJ shouldn't have the puck often.
I suspect Hemmer's numbers are going to be stagnant or suffer this season. It looks like Quinn may spread the offensive talent around a bit.
I just hope his message to JFJ, Stone, Brule, and Stortini is they better be running defensemen through the boards or you're back on the milk run. Most other teams have a few of these guys who are borderline dirty.
Not saying I like dirty hockey, but it just seems that having a few guys everybody loathes is a necessary ingredient.
I think the mitigating factor when you look at JFJ is that 37 of his GP was in that awful 06-07 season. That's no excusing the player — but he was 21 or 22 — which is still young developmentally for a big man.
He got his 7 GP cup of coffee in 05-06.
Then 9GP in 06-07 in an injury plagued season.
Then 7GP last season.
60GP total. There's more to see.
Bookie, I agreeLike Taylor Pyatt on with the sisters.
I also think that someone like JFJ may do much better under a Quinn/Renney system than under MacTs Systems. MacT did a lot of rejigging of game plans based upon the opponent. Some players have no problem with this, but others are not so malleable.
I think that a player like Jaques may do well playing the same game night after night. I also think that if this line stays together they may develop some chemistry which results in JFJ being in the right spot to bang in rebounds.
In any case, it looks as though we are going to find out.
The Kool-Aid tastes different this year.
While I see Bookie's point, I can't help but feel like a big guy with more hands would be better suited to the role. I dunno, maybe JFJ has hands (he was fine in the AHL), but I'd rather see him put up more than one point before I give him the keys to the Ferrari. I can see what Quinn's doing there, but I don't think it sends the right message to the rest of the roster, necessarily.
So, who are our cuts at forward
Brennan, Reddox, Eberle, Schremp, MacIntyre, and (once Pouliot or Pisani is back) Stone?
Is that enough?
As per the JFJ thing, its one of those moves that makes you look like a genius if it works and if it doesn't you just change it 8 games into the season.
I think the goal is to make a player out of a 'maybe'. That gets you one more player of the type you need at no cost (if it works).
The Jacques experiment won't last past Oct. 1.
Jacques just had the play die with him so often in the past that he was mostly useless. It's still small sample stuff, but he was certainly full value for those early numbers.
As I've said many times before, looking comptetent next to Horcoff and Hemsky is not exactly a tremendous attribute. Regardless, I'm with BDHS here – Quinn's blowing smoke because he'll need JFJ at some point.
Because it has some of Grandpa's old cough syrup in it.
Jacques is the next Lucic.
on a totally unrelated note, malhotra should definitely fire his agent. rob neidermeyer just signed with Jersey for $1 million.
I guess you gotta go with what works. JFJ certainly has never been considered an NHL offensive threat, but he's looked pretty good with Horcoff and Hemsky. Hemsky hasn't even shown up yet either. Is that because he's playing with a guy (in JFJ) that isn't a skill player? Maybe. But I think if Hemmer were finding his game, JFJ would really work on that line because he's got the drive, and energy that we used to want Penner to bring (I say "used to" because Penner is actually bringing it so far) along with the size. The one thing that's suspect is the hands. He's obviously struggled hard offensively at the NHL level. But maybe it might actually work out. Maybe Quinn's instilled some sort of message in him as to how to play to be effective out there. I don't know. But it's definitely worth sticking with, because so far he's been one of few bright spots in the pre-season.
Maybe Lou is finally showing signs of slipping and he thought he had made a hell of a bargain signing Scott Neidermayer for 1 million?
….and Stone is the next Dustin Brown.There, nothing to worry about.
I did some research into JFJ's comparables. Out of all players in the history of the NHL, 94 of them managed to play 30+ games in only their second NHL season and score zero points. It's a list of studs: Gump Worsley, Martin Brodeur, Terry Sawchuk, Roberto Luongo, Henrik Lundqvist…
I think we've got a generational talent on our hands here, boys.
Cogs has yet to screen a shot in the NHL.
I'm sure it's better than being out of work but Quinn must be shaking his head already. He's been on the job for ~ three weeks and he's already called out the vets, he's already called out the too-many-small-guys elephant and by now he must know we don't have enough guys who can grind, PK or win a faceoff.
Put all that together with 71 on the mend and this is gonna be a tough team to watch.
On the other hand, it's gonna be fun reading the papers to see the detailing of Quinn's frustration.
What's the odds of Quinn staying the full term of his contract?
Maybe he'll exagurate some unheard of health issue, bolt after year one, and wish Renney good luck with these waterbugs.
Meanwhile MacT is giggling in his TSN armchair.
quain: I think injuries played a big part, don't you? Nobody is quite writing off Alex Planet yet either, and they shouldn't
I would wait at least until a month into the year before making such bold predictions. Even under MacT with all of the problems last year this team was a playoff team until the last 3 weeks of the season. If they can see small improvements this year, it is likley that they will be in the playoff picture.
As per MacT, I am sure that all MacT wants in this world is to work for TSN and coach the Spengler cup…
I approve of this new name for him.
I've been a big Penner booster, and by extension, Horpensky!…but I can't fault Quinn for trying Jacques portside with Horcoff and Hemsky. Nothing wrong with Penner-Comrie-O'Sullivan, while Jacques could generate room for 83&10 (as others have said, he can't distract Regeher flying around on the 4th line). May not be a high percentage play, but chances of success are way higher than starting the season with Pisani @ C…not to mention Pisani on the dot with Penner to his right. This experiment seems completely sane in comparison. No wonder the Koolaid tastes different this year. Interesting indeed LT.
in other news; mps played 17:17 and anton lander 10:26 in the sel opener for timrå
Bookie,Not making any bold predictions, just got the feeling that Quinn could get fed up with this group pretty quickly if there is no improvement shown.
Especially if there is no attempt by management to fill the holes that he recognized in 1 week and most of us pointed out over a year ago.
At least now the news is spaceworthy.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
September 15, 5:05 pm by LP