Oilers Cut 6 More
Slava Trukhno wasn’t voted off the Oilers island until October 1st last season and he was one of the final 6 forwards cut before the 2008-09 campaign’s opening night. The final 5 players sent away a year ago (Corazzini, Potulny, Brule, Schremp, Jacques) represent a drop in the bucket compared to the forwards who will be sent down in the next week or so. One wonders where Trukhno will play if all of these men clear waivers.
Below I list the players sent out today, the day they were sent last fall (if they were Oilers) and discuss them in terms of my original depth chart posted here September 12.
- R Colin McDonald (Sept 25): I wonder about guys like McDonald. He was drafted the same season as Pouliot and Jacques and has never been close to the NHL. He played college hockey of course, but this is the third pro training camp for him and there’s no real sign of progress. I marked him 20th in the training camp look so he wasn’t a favorite to make the big team. Rob Schremp (#21), Jordan Eberle (#23), Ryan O’Marra (#27) and Milan Kytnar (#33) are still with the team.
- L Slava Trukhno (Oct 1): We can agree that TC is different this season because of the Olympics, but Trukhno didn’t show enough this fall. I had him ranked 22nd for this fall, so his getting sent out shouldn’t be considered a huge surprise. Among the players ranked lower who are still around are Eberle, Brennan, O’Marra and Milan Kytnar.
- L Geoff Paukovich (Sept 25): I had him 24th on my TC list, Paukovich got into some pre-season action this season and at least management knows about him. Brennan, O’Marra and Kytnar were all lower on my list at the start of training camp.
- L Charles Linglet (not an Oiler): I had him 29th and he stayed longer by a bit than the men around him. I don’t know that we’ll see him again.
- R Miroslav Lazo (not an Oiler): He was ranked 30th on the TC list and I honestly had about 6 posts ready to go on him. We were going to talk about Ubaldo Heredia and Coco Laboy but it was not to be. Interesting player. Unlike the others on this list, he was not retained (Oilers released him).
- D Johan Motin (not an Oiler): He was ranked 14th among the blue on my training camp list September 12. Among those still here but ranked lower are Alex Plante (#15) and Bryan Young (#16).
The Oilers (by my count) still have 44 players left in camp. Of those, goalies Sorochan and Mucha, defenders Chorney, Arsene, Taylor, Young and Plante, along with forward Ryan O’Marra could be sent out in the next day or two. Should those cuts be made, Edmonton would still have 36 players in camp for 23 spots. This is going to be an interesting week.
You'd have to think Kytnar would be staying in Saskatoon, or at least heading back quite soon.
Yeah, agreed. He's looked good on the forecheck and won some faceoffs (which is no mean feat on this team) but it makes sense he'll be cut tomorrow.
He'll be cut. Niemi will be cut right away by the Isles and the Blades will have a full roster to pummel the dub this year.
Kip Brennan should be on it's way soon. Maybe they will hold to Robbie in the faith of trading him.
I thought we had rights to Motin?
We do. It's Lazo who was released.
I'd like them to give Schremp a 1 game tryout, starting on the top line, first powerplay, 20 minutes total playing time…the crowd chanting his name the entire fucking time…
Then after the game guillotine him at center ice.
How much better would this lineup be?
POS Horcoff Hemsky
Penner Cogs Voracek
Moreau Malhotra Pisani
JFJ/Strudwick MAP Stone/Stortini
Extra fwd: Nilsson (or traded, waiver or to AHL)
No size issues and the Comrie money used for Malhotra – it's not a fantastic leap to imagine this. A number of us wanted Voracek because he was bigger and better than Gags and probably always will be. Plus a guy who can actually win a faceoff once a week would be nice.
I'm just say'in…….
Meh. Gagner was a solid pick and despite a pedestrian TC there's no evidence imo that the Oilers chose poorly.
I'm going to change the time stamp on this post so it'll go below the GDT. I'll change it after the game.
Heh, Gagner so far has: More PPG, More Points, More G/PTS than Voracek, who had 1 year of Extra development. Voracek isn't playing like a physical guy, so that wouldn't solve anything really.
A number of us wanted Voracek because he was bigger and better than Gags and probably always will be.
Evidence is not clear on this.
Not saying Gagner was a bad pick – not at all – just that Voracek suits our needs far better – especially on a team with Cogliano, Nilsson, Comrie, Schremp and Eberle. You can pick up a small skill guy without too much trouble (see Comrie, Mike, 2009) but bigger skill guys are another thing all together. Generally have to pick top 10 to get a real good one – even top 5. That draft was a chance that does not come around all that often and so choosing a small not so fast kid over a big talented winger was a miss IMHO
LT: got confused when you listed him as not an Oiler. I was watching for him all game and he seemed decent but he got caught a couple of times in no mans land. Have we heard any comments from him saying whether or not hes going to tough it out on the farm for the year?
BELGIUM SURVIVES.
Not saying Gagner was a bad pick – not at all – just that Voracek suits our needs far better
And what suited our needs better mid-June of 2007? You don't draft for position, you draft BPA. Voracek looks nice now, but Gagner was the better option on draft day.
With Cogs, Schremp and Nilsson in the system I'd say that Voracek was both a better pick AND filled a need.
You make trades to fill needs not draft. Unless you're doing it the LA kings way. Taking the best player available without considering needs is the way you build your assets. If you have redundancy you make trades.
Gagner for my money was the better pick at the time given everything he had done as a 16 and 17 year old.
Watching Ferris Bueller on TV tonight (imo better than pre-season hockey) and caught myself longing for some sort of Ferris Bueller season for the Oil. Y'know, the short man parade bluffing their way around the ice all season, the crowd breaking into dance numbers to 'Twist and Shout' and Ethan Moreau getting kicked in the head by a 16 year old girl and being forced to ride the bus in Springfield beside a geeky girl.
I'm just sayin' …
Good point jdrevenge; I thought Motin had signed a three year contract (as per Cap geek) and therefore is "an Oiler"….
Is it theoretically possible for the Oilers to have a prospect like Motin sign an AHL contract rather than an NHL contract?
That way, you're not starting the timer on his restricted free agency. The downside is that you'd have to sign him to a separate deal if you ever wanted to call him up, but in Motin's case it would be a good try.
Lord Bob- If you don't offer a prospect an NHL deal 2 years after draft day then your team loses his NHL rights.
A player on an AHL deal can be signed to an NHL deal by any team.
Schremp,
Schremp schremp schremp schremp, schremp… schremp schremp schremp schremp schremp.
Schremp schremp schremp schremp: schremp.
- Schremp
Asia:
If you want to argue Voracek over Gagner for talent than fine. Noted, and we'll see.
If you want to argue Voracek over Gagner for position it's a little weaker because, at the time, the Oilers had 2 centers who were in or entering their prime (Horcoff or Stoll) and both had acceptable size. There wasn't a glut of small centers. Guys like Cogs were late first round longshots. At the wing we had Torres, Moreau, Pisani, Hemsky and others.
If you want to argue Voracek over Gagner for size, that's insane. It's like saying you went with the Corolla over the Civic because of horsepower. First off, if you cared much about that you wouldn't be buying one of those two and secondly, the difference is so small it doesn't matter. This ain't Eric Staal. Both Gagner and Voracek had 30 hits last year.
"Not saying Gagner was a bad pick – not at all – just that Voracek suits our needs far better"
Lovely. Second guessing after the fact.
Personally I prefer to talk up Getzlaf/Parise instead of Pouliot.
I know some fans who still bewail the fact their team passed over Messier in his draft year, lol. Okay, I'm lying.
I know some fans who still bewail the fact their team passed over Messier in his draft year, lol. Okay, I'm lying.
Exactly.
Why not revisit the aborted Comrie trade that would have brought Perry and their 1st here too.
That 1st was Smid, but Oilers were high on Drew Stafford that year and may have taken him.
So if people are posting lines with Maholtra and Voracek, I'm going to start posting lines with with Stafford, Perry, and Getzlaf/Parise.
I'm actually moving on and posting this:
Penner – Horcoff- Hemsky
-Top 10 in production/minutes played together in league 08/09, coach was insane to break them up, Hemsky wants Horcoff to center him too. Send these guys out Power vs. Power
O'Sullivan-Comrie-Stone/JFJ
-O'Sully and Comrie showing great chemistry, don't mess with it. Give them which ever big man who can skate that makes the team to clear room and screen the goalie, this line could handle tougher minutes too as Comrie showed he can check in the Stanely Cup Finals when with Ottawa.
Cogs-Gagner-Pisani
-Cogs still can't win a faceoff, has speed to burn as winger, Pisani can help them defensively, can skate with Cogs and has a great shot. If this line is kept away from tough competition and they will outscore opponents
Moreau – Pouliot – Stortini
-Can be an energy line as well and wouldn't be hopeless against opposition's 2nd line if that match came out on the road. Pouliot has shown some of the best positioning and defensive play on the team this pre-season. Quinn has even commented on it.
Extras – Nilsson/JFJ/Stone
Having Pisani on the left on with POS and Comrie would work too and they could play the toughs if needed, but that leaves line 3 too exposed defensively for the ice time they will get.
Shremp and Brule haven't done enough offensively or defensively 5v5 to make the team IMO.
I have a tough time cutting Brule loose, but he simply hasn't brought anything to TC this year, and brought about the same to the AHL last year.
Woodguy:
Interesting line combo's. Not sure if I completely by off on Stone (not convinced at all the JFJ is ready for this either) for the other wing w/Comrie & POS, but those 2 need to stay together. From what I've seen so far, they have shown good chemistry and you don't mess with it.
What about Eberle? I don't like starting the clock earlier on a kid who may not be physically ready for the league, BUT he's one of the few who's shown consistent energy in the pre-season. The choice is not as easy as it looks.
Interesting that you'd let Smac go. From what I've read, there's every likelihood he get's picked up by someone if exposed to waivers.
Doiing this means Zorg and JFJ have to be ready to step up and protect our smurfs.
I'd have reckoned him as the second-best player on the board at number six, behind Voracek. And while I'm pissed off that we blew by Voracek (I hope Howson sends Lowe a card thanking him for the gift, the bastard), I was saying to myself that "I'll be happy with Voracek or Gagner".
Me, June 22, 2007.
I'm not second-guessing, I'm just quoting my first-guessing.
On Monday, the team put Dean Arsene, Chris Minard and Ryan Potulny on waivers. – TSN
On Monday, the team put Dean Arsene, Chris Minard and Ryan Potulny on waivers. – TSN
Yep, and the other Canadian teams put out some waiver wire fodder today as well:
Montreal:
Shaw Belle
Mathieu Darche
Mike Glumac
Curtis Sanford
Toronto:
Andre Deveaux
Alex Foster
Ryan Hamilton
Ben Ondrus
Calgary:
Cam Cunning
Kris Chucko
Carsen Germyn
//On Monday, the team put Dean Arsene, Chris Minard and Ryan Potulny on waivers. – TSN//
Just one thought on this. Could clearing some of this salary enable management to better live within their budget if Nilsson get's sent down to Springfield?
In the post-game audio, Kytnar mentions that he's staying in Saskatoon.
His Blue 'n' Orange adventure is over for this year
I'd take Sanford over JDD. Although maybe that's because he seems to always play well against us.
BELGIUM SURVIVES AGAIN.
(So does Ryan O'Marra, I notice. Does he have pictures of Tambellini, Quinn, and a goalie's wife or something?)
OD: The Oilers are paying decent sized numbers on those AHL contracts to save Springfield and give the kids a chance – there is little chance that they get picked up.
Coach, thanks for clarifying. Got confused between "assigning" someone versus having to expose someone through "waivers" to get them to the minors.
So T.Fleury got a couple of points last night. Though the odds are long, the guy might just get one more chance in the show. 4 point night for Glencross. I am ussually a defender of the Lowe regime, but I regreted the loss of Glencross as soon as he left and thought it a huge mistake. He is a 3/4th liner who changes games. That is a very valuable commodity.
Any chance Theo survives?
Cuts…Kris Chucko
Nice to see Chucko and Sugartits sandwiched in between Meszaros and Schneider with Green waiting in the wings on draft day in 2004.
Looking at it, the Flamers have almost as a horrific first round drafting history as we do.
"Looking at it, the Flamers have almost as a horrific first round drafting history as we do."
Nearly 20 straight seasons of abject mediocrity, but boy oh boy that makes up for everything – the Flames, who just signed the premier available defenceman to go with their other couple of Team Canada starting defencemen, are "almost" as pathetic as the Oilers.
LT, for those years when TC starts on a different date, or is perhap sshortened or elongated for whatever reason, is it perhaps better to evaluate based on # of TC camp days, or perhaps %age of TC that the player managed to stay up for? That might be a little more accurate than date sent down.
Also, the number of PS games played would probably be a nice comparison from one year to the next.
Speaking of, what happened to Potulny? Did he come to camp hurt? Would've thought he would've gotten a better look than he has.
Does McDonald's development tell us anything about Vande Velde's or Nash's future?
I can't believe O'Marra is still hanging around. He'll never cover his draft pick bet, but does Quinn see something there?
I don't think we can tell much of anything by who's getting sent down and who isn't, certainly not by when they get sent down.
Not yet anyway.
There are just too many possible explanations for a player getting sent down or a player staying up to draw any conclusions.
1. Is the player older and is the org. thinking of dumping him? If so, that player might get more time just to be sure. This is O'Marra's case I think, as has been noted here in the past.
2. Does the player fit a role that is way overfilled, e.g. puck moving two way defenseman or small, skilled forwards. If so, they go down. I think this is Potulny's case.
3. Is the player still underdeveloped that they have no chance and are just taking time away from players the management needs to evaluate. This is Motin, though 2 also applies.
4. Does the player have pedigree and is showing off that player for the fans. Think Eberle and maybe Schremp.
5. Is the player a career bubble AHL/NHL player? If so, if you already have seen the player a lot in your system, there's no point in keeping him up. If you're not 100% sure he's a bubble player, because he's a newer acquisition, you take more of a look. This is the tricky ground that Brule and Stone live on. Remember camp is partly about competing, but also about the org. learning more about the players. Or at least that's how it seems.
D and G looked set, so how about the forwards?
Locks(10): Hemsky, Horcoff, O'Sullivan, Comrie, Penner, Pisani, Moreau, Cogliano, Gagner, Stortini
I think Jacques and Pouliot will make it as well, leaving 1 spot for:
Stone, Nilsson, Brule, MacIntyre. We could also keep 14 forwards and then 2 of these guys could make the squad. (Reddox and Schremp are around as well, but I doubt either of them make it.)
Right now it looks like Stone has a good chance. Nilsson and Brule have been equally unimpressive, but Brule is cheaper and at least brings a physical element. MacIntyre could hang around as the 14th, but if not, I don't think he'd be missed. I used to be a Nilsson fan, but it seems like something just isn't right with the guy. I say keep Stone and Brule and send Nilsson and MacIntyre through waivers.
What about Eberle? I don't like starting the clock earlier on a kid who may not be physically ready for the league, BUT he's one of the few who's shown consistent energy in the pre-season. The choice is not as easy as it looks.
I think 19 year olds shouldn't play against men. Stuff like what happened to Brule happens too often. Another year of physical maturation can really help. He's been great, but no need to rush him.
Interesting that you'd let Smac go. From what I've read, there's every likelihood he get's picked up by someone if exposed to waivers.
Doiing this means Zorg and JFJ have to be ready to step up and protect our smurfs.
On this team all 12 forwards need to be able to play, and he simply can't.
I think his usefulness is limited to 3-4 teams, and that's not enough for a roster spot. He has improved, but not enough to play in the NHL everyday.
If you want to double shift a top 6 forward in his spot then maybe, but I'd rather have JFJ/Nilsson/Stone or who ever you have to give up to keep him to help cover off for injuries and make all 4 lines a factor.
Question: Why do Arsene, Potulny and Minard need to be placed on waivers?
FYI…
OILERS ASSIGN EIGHT
The Edmonton Oilers assigned eight players today (four defencemen and four forwards), leaving their training camp roster at 34 players.
Assigned to Springfield (AHL): Ryan O'Marra (RW), Alex Plante (D), Jake Taylor (D) and Bryan Young (D)
Assigned to Saskatoon (WHL): Milan Kytnar (C)
Placed on waivers for the purpose of assignment: Dean Arsene (D), Ryan Potulny (C) and Chris Minard (LW).
(Copied from edmontonoilers.com)
Question: Why do Arsene, Potulny and Minard need to be placed on waivers?
Because you only get a certain number of years of pro hockey before you require waivers.
Again no surprises, starting to get to the nitty gritty though.
Thanks Schitzo. Is it different for a player on a one-way contract?
OILERS ASSIGN EIGHT
That leaves 19 forwards in camp and they are keeping 14.
Which 4 do you keep from:
Eberle, Schremp, JFJ, Stone, Pouliot, Reddox, Nilsson, MacIntyre, and Brule. (I think that's everyone on the bubble, although I really don't think Poo is on the bubble)
I keep JFJ, Stone, Poo and Nilsson.
Waivers play a role though and I'm not sure who has to clear and who doesn't.
If Stone doesn't have to clear I may send him down and keep someone who does.
My picks also assume that the Oilers don't mind paying NHL contracts in the AHL.
1-way or 2-way, it doesn't matter. The contracts only determine how much the player will be paid.
Again no surprises, starting to get to the nitty gritty though.
Also leaves 3 games to get the real lines together and work on systems.
At least the bubble boys can play with two linemates who will make the team so they can really see what they got.
Thanks Ed.
I believe all those players minus Eberle will have to clear waivers (including Reddox). That makes for tough decisions, although there will be many other teams in the same boat.
Sorry to piss on the Eberle parade, but in my estimation he doesn't look remotely ready yet for the NHL.
Keeping him risks concussions, and all those other things that happen when boys play against men.
Gagner doesn't look ready either, but that's another matter altogether.
Roilty: iirc Reddox does not have to clear waivers to go down. He played 1 game in the NHL in 07/08 and 42 in 08/09. I think that was part of the issue with his contract over the summer.
Whether he should be sent down remains to be seen. He might be one of the better forwards on the PK (although that's not saying much after last season).
hunter1909 said…
Sorry to piss on the Eberle parade, but in my estimation he doesn't look remotely ready yet for the NHL.
If Hunter's against it, Eberle must be ready.
Until Eberle stops being one of the better players on the ice you have to keep him up. He's definitely been earning his delayed cut so far.
He looks pretty lost in the defensive zone but he's been killer from the bad guys blue and in.
Until Eberle stops being one of the better players on the ice you have to keep him up. He's definitely been earning his delayed cut so far.
He looks pretty lost in the defensive zone but he's been killer from the bad guys blue and in.
Hopefully he can keep it up against NHL defensemen. Next 3 games will tell.
I still don't keep him up though for reasons stated earlier, but I'm excited to see him play some better competition.
//Hopefully he can keep it up against NHL defensemen. Next 3 games will tell.
I still don't keep him up though for reasons stated earlier, but I'm excited to see him play some better competition.//
So am I Woodguy. I agree with all that you say – particularly when it comes to kids playing against men (Brule).
So far he's done better than the other bubble boys (save maybe Stone). I think if they'd sent him out earlier, it sends a signal to guys they could relax – and that's a bad signal given how little they showed the last 2 nights.
At this point, there's more to be gained by seeing how he handles minutes in 1 of the next 2 games against a tougher breed of competition before sending him back to the WHL.
Roilty: iirc Reddox does not have to clear waivers to go down. He played 1 game in the NHL in 07/08 and 42 in 08/09. I think that was part of the issue with his contract over the summer.
YOU ARE WRONG
He signed in June of 2006 as a 20 year old, which gives him 3 years (or 160 NHL games) of waiver exemption. 2006-2007, 2007-2008, and 2008-2009 are his three exempt seasons.