Panthers at Oilers, PS G3/09-10

The Oilers and the rabid fanbase gets a chance to see the brand new goalie tonight. Former Winnipeg Jet Nikolai Khabibulin will be in goal tonight (or at least that’s the plan) and there’s also news Lubomir Visnovsky will play sometime this weekend. The Oilers have been spending to the cap for awhile now but lots of their good players are hurt so bloody often that we don’t see them on the ice together often.

The Oilers are spending a stunning amount of money on D & G and if they’re to make the second season these highly paid men need to stand and deliver.

The lineups (courtesy hfboards and poster “Rin”) are:

  • Jacques(22)-Horcoff(10)-Schremp(88)
  • O’Sullivan(19)-Comrie(91)-Stone(32)
  • Linglet(36)-Brule(67)-Lazo (90)
  • Brennan(26)-O’Marra(42)-Stortini (46)
  • O’Marra(42)-Stortini(46)
  • Chorney(41)-Gilbert(77)
  • Strudwick(43)-Plante(48)
  • Arsene(8)-Staios(24)
  • Khabibulin(35)Dubnyk(40)

A few notes on this:

  • Schremp gets another night in a feature role
  • Jacques does too, he mentioned he was healthy and he looks good
  • Stone also gets another feature shot, meaning he must be in the mix
  • The 3line features Linglet and Lazo, two players we don’t know
  • The 4line features Brennan and O”Marra along with Stortini. Interesting group
  • Chorney, Plante and Arsene are getting second looks and we should probably look at that list (along with the injured Peckham) as a possible callup group.

If we know (and we kind of do) that the Oilers will cut down on Monday then it’s probably a good guess that the AHLers on the 3 and 4 line are getting their shot before heading down and that Jacques, Schremp and Stone will be around awhile next week. Among the blue, I’d guess all of Arsene, Chorney and Plante are sent out on Monday.

NOTE: Pat Quinn’s comments on the Oilers site are really good from last night. He mentioned being impressed with Motin and Plante. He also says “I don’t know who our top 6 is yet” and talks at length about playing a “complete game”. It’s worth viewing and sounds very similar to what MacT had been saying since 2006 summer.

He mentions that they’re going to look at Eberle at least 2 more games (maybe) and that he’s doing some good things. Deja Vu all over again?

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238 Responses to "Panthers at Oilers, PS G3/09-10"

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  1. Smarmy Boss says:

    A stunning amount on goaltending? How so?

  2. Lowetide says:

    Oilers could have solved their G problem for millions less but chose the top rated player available and paid in full.

  3. Icecastles says:

    Given the age of the #1, the state of the goalie market this summer (saturated), and most importantly (imo) the number of games we can expect Habi to play, it's a huge amount of money. I figure we can count on maybe 50 starts from the Bulin Wall this season.

  4. Brett Gee 英 明 says:

    My view on the goalie thing is that ever since Salo its been one temporary solution after another, and now that temporary solution is costing big money, like the others have mentioned.

    Lets hope DD and JDD develop into some decent guys.

  5. Icecastles says:

    Brett – I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but what would you consider a long-term solution? They had Roli for 3 1/2 years, and wanted to keep him for another. Despite how poorly handled his development has been, there is a strong argument to be made that the development system has been bringing JDD and DD along slowly and patiently with the view to them both being long-term solutions for goal, though admittedly the odds of either of them being a stand-out number one goalie are not overwhelming.

    It's a very hard position to fill convincingly.

  6. bookie says:

    I would have played goal for the Oilers for league minimum. Of course I would also need a ton of free food so that I could gain enough weight to cover the whole net. This could work…

  7. Brett Gee 英 明 says:

    Icecastles- Good point. Rolo was around for a while.

    I guess its just that the Oilers have not had a "diamond in the rough" and that that it seems like they should have. I'm talking Steve Mason, Josh Harding type guys who rise to the top of the organization to be top quality goalies. We always think that we need to trade for one of these guys, but how come we just can't have one of these guys to begin with? Is it luck? Scouting?

    But enough of that talk. I'm looking forward to seeing Bulin tonight. I also heard that Comrie might make an appearance tonight.

  8. Brett Gee 英 明 says:

    I just want a stud in goal for the next 12 years, you know? Is that too much to ask;)

  9. bookie says:

    Does the spiffy article about Ryan Stone by Matheson mean that the Oilers are trying to convince us of something? I don't remember such glowing review by bloggers…

  10. Smarmy Boss says:

    Well the Oilers don't view Khabi as a temp solution. Regardless of what the blogosphere says.

  11. Coach pb9617 says:

    He mentions that they're going to look at Eberle at least 2 more games (maybe) and that he's doing some good things. Deja Vu all over again?

    Dustin Penner makes another RW look great.

    Jacques(22)-Horcoff(10)-Schremp(88)

    That's the funniest first line. I just giggled when I read it.

  12. Alice says:

    Looks a bit funny alright, and I'd prob put Brule on the 4th and O'Marra with the other nobodies.

    But…

    If you don't try it you can't learn much. I had a girl always played D, always, said her Dad – but really not very effective. Till we had a bunch playing basketball and she had to move to the wing. Revelation. You don't know what you don't know.

    Hope JFJ gets a pair, and Schremp gets the fighting majors. Just to screw us all up.
    Again ~

  13. B.C.B. says:

    Linglet-Brule-Lazo

    That could be an interesting line. A little scoring, a little hitting, and a lot of pest (if Lazo lives up to his billing, and Brule gives a shit).

    Brennen-O'Marra-Zorg

    Again this peeks my interest, as I liked what I saw from the fourth line vs. Calgary. I think the brass is putting O'Marra in a position to succeed: all he needs to do, on that line, is win his faceoffs, hit people, and not have a minus game. Offensive is not expected, and he has a role that he should be able to play.

    Why no Motin?
    easily the best young defender in camp: I would be running him out there more then Arsene, or Plante. But I am not a coach for a very good reason. I hope to see more of him, and am willing to bet he will be the last defender to be cut. I am expecting big things, unreasonable big things, from this young man.

  14. shanetrain says:

    Its funny everyone seems to have their own little starting lineup in mind , but at the end of the day I dont think anyone is going to get it right.

    In the game against Calgary the other night I really liked what Ryan Stone was doing and to a lesser extent Chris Minard.

  15. digger says:

    This probably shouldn't be surprising, but Hemsky's in favour of keeping someone like Eberle up with the big club:

    If Ales Hemsky ran this team–and he's actually quite happy to let somebody else chart the Edmonton Oilers' future–he would keep Jordan Eberle on the roster.

    "That's what (former Oilers head coach Craig MacTavish) did with me when I was 19. He didn't send me down to junior. He kept me here. I look back now and it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I didn't play much. Of course you want to play because you're not used to sitting around and you're disappointed in that. But you learn a lot of stuff by being here. They force you to do all the little things," said Hemsky.

    "In junior, you'll be a star, but what's the point? Junior is done. That's how I see it, because I was in the same position."

  16. Traktor says:

    "Oilers could have solved their G problem for millions less but chose the top rated player available and paid in full."

    They also could have signed Manny Malhotra and had someone who can "saw off" for 3.5 million less than Horcoff.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Except that Horcoff is a better player. The Horcoff argument has been discussed to death and I know that no one's mind will be changed but really if you can't see the man's value then there's not much to discuss.

    In the words of John Sebastian it's like "trying to tell a stranger about rock and roll."

  18. DBO says:

    So in a cap world, it may actually make sense to keep eberle in the bigs over a guy like Nilsson (savings of $1.1 mill). If the games trend the same way (unlikely) and Quinn keeps his 3 scoring lines mentality, based on which line have played well i put the lineups at:

    Gagner-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Penner-Cogliano-Eberle
    Stone-Comrie-O'Sullivan
    Moreau-Pouliot-Pisani
    Stortini-Nilsson

    Well that has some depth. you could suvb in jacques for Stone if jacques steps up, and you could sub in pisani for Eberle if you want a more responsible line. Out top 2 skill guys play on the first line, but Horcoff does the heavy lifting with teh faceoffs and defensive responsibility. You coudl also move stortini in for toughness, or Nilsson in for eberle on that second line.

    That lineup does allow Quinn to roll 4 lines, so who knows. it'll all change after the weekend.

  19. Bruce says:

    They also could have signed Manny Malhotra and had someone who can "saw off" for 3.5 million less than Horcoff.

    Malhotra: 2 plus or even seasons, 8 minus seasons
    Horcoff: 7 plus or even seasons, 1 minus season

  20. Traktor says:

    "Except that Horcoff is a better player."

    And Khabibulin most likely is as well. At least be consistent with your logic.

  21. Traktor says:

    "if you can't see the man's value then there's not much to discuss."

    Nobody said what Horcoff brings isn't valuable. The question is he 3.5-4 million dollars more valuable than Manny? Not a chance in hell.

    It doesn't matter though because the salary cap is only a myth.

  22. Lord Bob says:

    If Belgium can get Jean-Francois Jacques a point or two, we know that he's ready!

    (Horcoff? Who's that?)

  23. Traktor says:

    For the record I agree that Edmonton should have looked elsewhere for a tender, even if it was a small downgrade.

  24. Lowetide says:

    The Oilers could have acquired a less expensive option and Horcoff was already onside. The questions are not the same in regard to each player so in fact I am being consistent with regard to the broader view.

    I'm fine with Khabibulin's signing in regard to the player, said so the day it happened (comment #13):

    PDO: I don't like the money and don't like the terms. I'm completely fine with the goalie, he's always been a favorite of mine.

    The problems (as mentioned that day) are dollars and term.

  25. Traktor says:

    Bruce:

    Interesting that you use 7 seasons to mark Horcoff's +/- but whenever it comes his points per game you never go past the lockout.

  26. Bar Qu says:

    We always think that we need to trade for one of these guys, but how come we just can't have one of these guys to begin with? Is it luck? Scouting?.

    Both imo. Willis has made a compelling case that developing goalies is a loser's game (I think it was Willis but I am frequently wrong). Better to hang around outside the backdoor of the store and wait to see what falls off the truck – especially now. Too bad for us Tambs walked into the showroom and let his open jaw do the bidding (my bad analogy going worse).

    The Red Wings win Stanley cups with mediocre goaltenders by putting their focus into more predictable scouting paths like forwards. I mean, drafting is a pure luck oftentimes, but drafting goalies and forwards is more like playing craps versus blackjack. The odds may be stacked against you in blackjack, but there are ways to beat the house occasionally.

  27. Dennis says:

    Did anyone else notice that 13's the newly cemented 3rd line pivot all of a sudden?

    I keep reading that it's 78 vs brule for the 4th line role and we know that 10-89 are 1-2 so that means 13 is the 3rd line centre.

  28. Alice says:

    Let's see, two down, six pre-season and 82… Only 88 more 'The Enduring Conundrum of Shaun Horcoff' GDT's to go! Maybe one of those schoolboys – yes, Schitzo, that means you – can do up a Thesis.

  29. digger says:

    Of course, having one of the top 5 dmen in NHL history playing 25+ minutes/night helps your team get away with Chris Osgood manning the nets.

    And to give credit where it's due, Dominik Hasek had a hand in 2 of those 4 Cup wins.

  30. Traktor says:

    Its going to be interesting to see what Tambellini manages to do with all our assets. Gagner, Cogliano and Grebs all due for raises. Eberle, Omark and Magnus all looking for some experience. Peckham knocking on the door. Smid looking for increased ice time.

    Only so many spots, only so many dollars.

    It might be wise to target a couple draft picks early or else we'll have a situation like this year where we lose assets (Pouliot, Schremp, ect) for nothing on waivers.

  31. Traktor says:

    "Only 88 more 'The Enduring Conundrum of Shaun Horcoff' GDT's to go!"

    How many "Horcoff and Die" chants can I expect this year? 17? 20?

  32. Alice says:

    I hope Gagner's dad has been feeding him a steady diet of Wed night's tapes, punctuated with plenty of 'WTF?'. and 'HUA!'. I know it's only one game, but it was horrifying to watch him tossing it left and right. Make plays alright, but when plays aren't there you don't just feed it to where you wish there was someone. At the very least feed it North, and somebody can chase it down in a safe area. This coin should have dropped by now.

  33. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: I suspect you'll see a few but then again you must love it.

    It's going to be extremely interesting to see how Quinn uses Cogliano and O'Sullivan this fall. I don't know that Cogliano is the de facto 3line center but O'Sullivan is getting the first push for 1line wing and may not let go.

    Fun stuff.

  34. mc79hockey says:

    Interesting that you use 7 seasons to mark Horcoff's +/- but whenever it comes his points per game you never go past the lockout.

    Traktor: I'm sure that you'll agree that those of us who use statistics should try to use those which are relevant to the discussion at hand. So, for example, if I was to say that the Oilers should sign Wayne Gretzky because he's the only 200 point scorer available, I would be rightly mocked, as that data, while true, is largely irrelevant.

    In Horcoff's case, I don't think you'll disagree that his role changed substantially in 2005-06. Suddenly, he was a guy getting PP minutes. Who he played against at ES didn't really change that much – I think it's fair to say he's pretty much always been a top 6 ES forward in terms of quality of competition with the Oilers.

    I think that Bruce plays games with numbers from time to time in service of whatever point he might be trying to make. I don't think he's doing it here. It strikes me though that Horcoff's +/- is relevant to the discussion from further back than his pts/g though (to the extent tht those numbers are relevant) because the makeup of his ice time changed significantly, while the quality of his ES minutes didn't.

  35. Traktor says:

    MC:

    I think Bruce's post is misleading rather than insightful.

    Take Grebeshkov for example. Why bother talking about the player he was 3 years ago if we know what type of player he is today?

    We know what type of players Horcoff and Malhotra are. One might be better than the other but both are good bets to "saw off". Only one is likely to outperform his contract though.

  36. Mr DeBakey says:

    “one of the top 5 dmen in NHL history playing 25+ minutes/night helps your team get away with Chris Osgood manning the nets.”

    Let’s compare two goaltending tandems by extrapolating last year into a theoretical this year

    Did:
    Nikolai Khabibulin 0.919, 50 games, 1500 shots
    Jeff Deslauriers 0.901, 32 games, 960 shots
    Combined salary $4.375 Million
    Goals Against 217

    Cudda:
    Mikael Tellqvist 0.912, 41 games, 1230 shots
    Alex Auld 0.911, 41 games, 1230 shots
    Combined salary $1.75 Million
    Goals against 218

    I realize there are many factors that go into this, and
    I’m not trying to provide a Unified Theory of Goaltending Procurement here.
    I’m just having fun with arithmetic

  37. Alice says:

    Mister D,

    I have an idea – how about Three goalies?

    I think it could work.

  38. Bar Qu says:

    digger,

    my point was more that Detroit has had success in mining gold from forwards and d-men, versus spending their time on developing goalies.

    Another way to look at is how many SCFs or even playoff rounds Minnie has had with its prodigious goalie factory and strong defensive system.

    Goalies are important, but not nearly as much as we think. Spending time developing them is a bad idea. Overpaying anyone whose name is not Brodeur or Luongo is a bad idea. Finding guys who have success at important levels (AHL, SEL, KHL and NHL) consistently is better. And right now, those guys are available cheap, cheep, chiip.

  39. bookie says:

    the Oilers should sign Wayne Gretzky because he's the only 200 point scorer available

    I totally agree! This is a brilliant statement and I think we should move on it quickly. It looks as though he is a holdout in Pheonix and I am pretty sure the CBA would allow us to sign him.

    Brilliant find man, brilliant!

  40. Schitzo says:

    Maybe one of those schoolboys – yes, Schitzo, that means you – can do up a Thesis.

    Well, I do have two paper classes this year. Do you prefer:

    Professional Responsibility and The Third Line Centre: How Tambellini Betrayed the Public Trust (And Fucked Horcoff Again)

    or

    Some sort of law and economics paper on how the CBA changed the bargaining environment in the NHL.

    I couldn't think of a witty title for the second topic, but I just had a "holy shit" moment and realized that might actually be a valid topic to write on for a grade this year.

    Alice, you'll be in the footnote somewhere

  41. NBOilerFan says:

    Hmmm… what exactly does "saw off" mean in hockey terms?

  42. kris says:

    hope Gagner's dad has been feeding him a steady diet of Wed night's tapes, punctuated with plenty of 'WTF?'. and 'HUA!'.

    Seriously, when I read this, for a while I though "Wed night" was short for wedding night not Wednesday night. Bad image.

    "Son, look at this! HUA! WTF is that?"

    Bruce is getting it from both sides today.

    I don't think, MC, that Bruce intentionally leaves anything out in his analysis of Zorg. Rather, you and he have an honest disagreement about whether Zorg.'s decent ES goal differential is inflated and likely to come down. I agree with you, and maybe Bruce has blinders on when it comes to Zorg, but we all have blinders on about something. Nonetheless, I think Bruce's analysis is honest even if incorrect. (Not that you implied otherwise, I just wanted to be clear.)

    Good to see Traktor is in midseason form on Horcoff, even though it's still preseason. :)

    Traktor, if Horcoff goes against tough comp. and scores 23, 65, +4 over 82 games (or scores at the same rate if he loses games to injury) against tough comp., will you admit you are wrong?

    If not, how well do you think he needs to do to be worth his cap hit? If you're reasonable.

    Ideally, you should make your expectations for ES only, unlike I did, but that's up to you.

  43. digger says:

    my point was more that Detroit has had success in mining gold from forwards and d-men, versus spending their time on developing goalies.

    If you look at the drafting history of both Edmonton and Detroit over the past 10 drafts, they've both spent the same amount of draft picks on goalies (7). In fact, 5 of Detroit's 7 goalie picks were in the 1st-4th round, whereas Edmonton only spent 2 of their 7 picks in that range.

    Seems to me that Detroit considers drafting goaltenders just as important as Edmonton, but they've either drafted and/or developed them more poorly.

  44. Bar Qu says:

    drat, defeated by the cold logic of actual facts.

    But, I still stand by the fact that Minnie sucks despite consistently developing good goalies.

  45. Mr DeBakey says:

    I saw off in the distance a cup,
    a wonderful cup,
    a stanley cup.
    But no matter how much I walked,
    how hard I tried,
    it never came nearer.

  46. mc79hockey says:

    Nonetheless, I think Bruce's analysis is honest even if incorrect. (Not that you implied otherwise, I just wanted to be clear.)

    To be clear, I don't think that Bruce is dishonest. I do think that he approaches it in what Bill James would call the sportswriter style – "This is what I believe, now how do I support it?" Lots of guys have made the HOF with that approach, so there's nothing wrong with it, I just don't think much of it in terms of shedding light on things.

    I try to come at it from a different angle, even where I'm starting with a belief: "If this was true, how would it show up in the numbers? Does it show up that way?"

  47. NBOilerFan says:

    Gregor has a good post up over at ON, but I found this the most interesting of all;

    "I asked Pat Quinn about what roles his coaches would have this season.

    Tom Renney will be in charge of the defence and practice.

    Wayne Fleming will run the powerplay and be one of the observers from up above.

    Kelly Buchberger is in charge of the PK and will be an in game observer on the bench and relay info to Quinn.

    Quinn will oversee all three of these facets and plans to work closely with all three."

    Read more: http://www.oilersnation.com/2009/09/gdb-minus-6-putting-up-the-wall/#ixzz0RUPCNRNU

  48. Alice says:

    kris, that's just too funny. I think you must have fallen down the stairs once too often when you were a kid. Perchance is your dad the notorious gore-hound bdhs?

  49. hunter1909 says:

    Schitzo; All the best with your studies. As a former college type myself, I appreciate how difficult it can be.

    Instead of a possibly dull, hard to read paper, how about shooting a ten minute student film?

    Suggested Title:

    Professional Responsibilities and Accountability, as Negated by P. LaForge and the Edmonton OIlers 1998-2009.

    Music:

    Lick My Love Pump(Spinal Tap)

  50. Black Dog says:

    If I was kris' Dad then he would have

    a) certainly fallen down the stairs
    b) likely stumbled on Mommy and Daddy, um, er, 'wrestling'
    c) tired of my stories long ago
    d) serious issues as a result of a to c

    btw kris – had to stifle a laugh when I read your interpretation of Wed. night

    Good stuff

  51. Coach pb9617 says:

    Kelly Buchberger is in charge of the PK and will be an in game observer on the bench and relay info to Quinn.

    Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

  52. Traktor says:

    "Traktor,

    How well do you think he needs to do to be worth his cap hit? If you're reasonable.

    Ideally, you should make your expectations for ES only, unlike I did, but that's up to you."

    I'd be happy if Horcoff could match Henrik Sedin's production:

    Horcoff EV points – 32
    H.Sedin EV points – 56

    Horcoff EV goals – 9
    H.Sedin EV goals – 18

    The problem though is you're asking me how fast a truck needs to go before it can race against other cars – I want to use Horcoff strictly for going off-road, taking garbage to the dump, ect.

    If we use Horcoff properly he should only net us 35-40 points and a positive +- should be impossible. I'd be fine with that.

    We can have the best defensive center in the league or a run-of-the-mill 1st line center – take your pick.

  53. bookie says:

    If this Gregor Story is true about 'Joe' than it is one of the funniest things I have ever heard.

    Anyone know Gregor, does he make stuff like this up, does he embellish?

    It seems too good to be true … "Do you know who I am?"

    That is funny!

  54. Woodguy says:

    The problem though is you're asking me how fast a truck needs to go before it can race against other cars – I want to use Horcoff strictly for going off-road, taking garbage to the dump, ect.

    If we use Horcoff properly he should only net us 35-40 points and a positive +- should be impossible. I'd be fine with that.

    We can have the best defensive center in the league or a run-of-the-mill 1st line center – take your pick.

    So essentially you're cool with Horcoff, just not cool with him playing with Hemsky against tough competition.

    I assume any line Hemsky is on is #1, and you still want Horcoff playing against tough competition.

    Would I have that right?

  55. Traktor says:

    "I assume any line Hemsky is on is #1, and you still want Horcoff playing against tough competition.

    Would I have that right?"

    Hemsky would be on the 2nd or 3rd line.

    Penner Horcoff Pisani
    Cogliano Gagner Nilsson
    Comrie O'Sullivan Hemsky
    Moreau Pouliot Stortini

    Something like that.

  56. B.C.B. says:

    Traktor: How do you think the Oilers coaches will be able to keep Hemsky away from the best opposition? I will bet the other teams coach will line match and, especially if the Oilers are away, Hemsky will be playing the top opposition without the defensive help he needs.

  57. Schitzo says:

    Traktor: I actually like those lines, but man, I can hear the call-in shows now.

    "They're playing Comrie on the first line with Hemsky, and our third line makes $13 million dollars!"

    Because it doesn't matter who actually plays the most minutes. I blame EA Sports.

  58. Traktor says:

    "I will bet the other teams coach will line match and, especially if the Oilers are away, Hemsky will be playing the top opposition without the defensive help he needs."

    Then that means whatever team were playing against are leaving their softies open to play against the Horcoff line.

    If Andy Murray wants to play Perron and Oshie and Horcoff and Pisani then be my guest.

    Raymond and Wellwood vs Horcoff and Pisani?

    It works both ways.

  59. Traktor says:

    Schitzo: I wouldn't want Tencer's job, that's for sure.

  60. Woodguy says:


    Penner Horcoff Pisani
    Cogliano Gagner Nilsson
    Comrie O'Sullivan Hemsky
    Moreau Pouliot Stortini
    .

    I like those.

    I think POS & Comrie could defensively protect Hemsky as much as Horc and winger X, or close enough not to matter. (If Comrie plays more like he did in the SCF than he did last year)

    Could you get Hemsky to buy in though? He's a bit a bitch when it comes to linemates.

    I think Pisani gets close to 20 goals (or more) on that set up too. His great shot is really wasted right now.

  61. knighttown says:

    This is going to go down as the first epic comments section of the 2009-10 season. Virtually all the key soap boxes are present and I think that how these players perform will have an impact on the Oilogosphere's hierarchy.

    We've got:

    1. Traktor vs. Horcoff. Can we agree that Kris' line in the sand covers the Cap number?

    2. Bruce luvs Stortini. I think if Zack puts up 5+ goals, plays 70+ games and improves his Corsi, Bruce gets a win.

    3. Coach and Penner. He's always said that H-H-P are a Top 10? first line based on the past but the sample size was too small. we'll know more soon.

    For what its worth, I think Horc has trouble covering the bet and Horpensky is not a Top 20 first line. However, the guy I'm most scared for is Zack. I've said it since fall 2007, Brodziak's ability to get the puck deep was the best on the team and allowed Stortini to know where to go. He's NHL-fast in a straight line but agility and acceleration are not his fortes. Unless his #4 center realizes this, I think his play suffers and he spends some time in the press box.

  62. godot10 says:

    How much of Blair Betts was Tom Renney and Henrk Lundqvist? Since Betts is NOT an Oiler, that tells you want Tom Renney's answer to the question is.

    How much of Manny Malhotra is just Ken Hitchcock's obsessive compulsive systems? Ken Hitchcock gave Sami Paulson a multiyear contract at $2.5 million to be his 3rd line shutdown centre, and a multiyear contract to Antoine Vermette at $3.7 million to be his 2nd line centre, rather than give Malhotra a new contract. What does that tell you about what Hitch thinks about Malhotra?

    Defensive hockey is coachable. The Oilers have an oversupply of young, inexperienced centres with reasonable talent levels. The coaching brainpower is there in Edmonton. All the Oilers need is one of those young guys to be receptive to coaching and to seize the job as his own.

  63. Promethian says:

    Bookie –

    Gregor's good on his word.

    He might embellish, but he doesn't fabricate.

  64. bookie says:

    Gregor's good on his word.

    He might embellish, but he doesn't fabricate.

    Figured so, that story was so funny though that it bordered on incredible (as in too extraordinary and improbable to be believed ).

  65. Steve says:

    Well, if he fabricated that story, he'd be leaving himself pretty open to an action for defamation, since, pseudonym aside, it's about an easily identifiable person.

  66. Hockey Noob says:

    Lt, I can't seem to find the link, but I read an blog sometime over the past few weeks. In this blog, the author basically questioned the 'value' of offensive dmen relative to forwards. Though I didn't completely buy into his argument, he did make a somewhat compelling argument that money for offense is often better spent on forwards than dmen. Relative to this blog post, the Oilers do seem to have a ton of money spent on dmen.

  67. NBOilerFan says:

    Traktor said…
    The problem though is you're asking me how fast a truck needs to go before it can race against other cars – I want to use Horcoff strictly for going off-road, taking garbage to the dump, ect.

    Traktor that is good stuff. I don't care who you are, that is gold. Please never stop posting here… I have always enjoyed your insight, candor and perspective. I don't always agree, but I'm even surprised how often I do.

    Also, since all I've gotten so far is a lovely ballad from Mr. DeBakey (which was nice), could you please enlighten me on the "saw off" term?

  68. kris says:

    Traktor,

    I'd be happy if Horcoff could match Henrik Sedin's production:

    Horcoff EV points – 32
    H.Sedin EV points – 56

    That's unreasonable, IMO. H. Sedin had a year that was better than his average and better than reasonable expectations, and I think it was partially inflated by his shooting percentage (15.6), which was much higher than his average (12.3) or than last year's (10.6).

    Moreover, in 07/08 Henrik didn't fare nearly as well against decent competition. He was +0.26/60 against -0.01 qual.comp. We'll see how much of a PVP outscorer he is this year.

    I think the truth about how good he is is somewhere between the two years, but I'm not sure.

    Anyway, If H. Sedin does as well as you suspect then he's very, very underpaid, and thus this not a good yardstick for Horcoff. (I think that he and his doppleganger have to play on the same team, hurts their collective takehome pay, BTW.)

    I guess my point is that it's clear that the disagreement here is not about what Horcoff does this season, but about what standard he should be evaluated by.

    Thus, and this is very important, there is no need for a running discussion of how well he does or doesn't do this season between you and the rest of us. That is, I hope we don't see the following on either side: "See, Traktor, he scored a hat trick." "Hey guys, your boy hasn't scored an ES goal in 10 games. Who's worth 5.5MM, now?"

    That will go nowhere, and we'd be talking past each other since we disagree about how to evaluate players, not whether they're meeting expectations.

    Just a suggestion to keep the discussion fruitful.

    Oh and yes, Black Dog could be my dad, though he might have been a negative number of years old when it happened. But that wouldn't stop ol' Black Dog. No sirree!

    Sorry to have caricatured your position Tyler.

  69. Bruce says:

    I think that Bruce plays games with numbers from time to time in service of whatever point he might be trying to make. I don't think he's doing it here.

    In other words, Tyler agrees with me this time.

    To be clear, I don't think that Bruce is dishonest.

    Thank you.

    I do think that he approaches it in what Bill James would call the sportswriter style – "This is what I believe, now how do I support it?" Lots of guys have made the HOF with that approach, so there's nothing wrong with it, I just don't think much of it in terms of shedding light on things.

    Pardon me, but Bill James is my hero much more than any sportswriter. I'm a numbers guy first and foremost, am forever trying to interpret them. They are not, however, the be-all and end-all; I have to trust my eyes and my judgement too. Of course I form hypotheses and look for support in the numbers, but very often those hypotheses have their genesis in the numbers themselves. Moreover, some numbers are unexplainable, and some aspects of the game are unquantifiable. So numbers only go so far.

    I try to come at it from a different angle, even where I'm starting with a belief: "If this was true, how would it show up in the numbers? Does it show up that way?"

    And that differs from my approach how, exactly?

    Listen, Tyler, I know I pissed you off the other day with my Lucic comment (under Quinn's quotes) and in retrospect I wish I had said it differently. I tried to make a funny about the "black art" of statistics and made a point of including myself in the target group, but you took it personally, and I apologize for that. Unfortunately it drew attention away from the actual numbers I was presenting, and therefore defeated the purpose of my own post.

    2. Bruce luvs Stortini. I think if Zack puts up 5+ goals, plays 70+ games and improves his Corsi, Bruce gets a win.

    Hey, I never once mentioned Stortini in this "epic thread". I may have mentioned him one or two times in the past, but today that was B.C.B. who brought that up, not me.

    Bruce is getting it from both sides today.

    Mmmmm, tasty.

  70. Coach pb9617 says:

    Coach and Penner – like all of the great couples.

    Dreger says Kessel to Toronto awaiting final signoff.

  71. kris says:

    I form hypotheses and look for support in the numbers

    Sorry Bruce, but I think you mispoke here. That's exactly what Tyler is accusing you of.

    Isn't it supposed to go the other way around. You form a hypotheses and you look to see if anything in the numbers disconfirms your suspicions or guesses?

    Looking for confirmation is a source of bias. Looking to disconfirm is defending against bias, and all that.

    I know, I'm being picky. I feel like a tool, but maybe it's helpful.

  72. bookie says:

    Wow, we really are starting to behave like a 'bunch of hens' in here. I think its time for the regular season to start allready.

  73. hunter1909 says:

    Schremp gets a hat trick tonight. Book it.

  74. B.C.B. says:

    @ Bruce:

    I didn't bring up Zorg, either. I brought up O'Marra. Actual, there is no mention till Knighttown's comment. I think we all are getting our blogs (and their comment sections) confused.

  75. hunter1909 says:

    Only idiots trade away 1st round picks for anything less than a superstar.

    Leafs might trade 2 of them away, for Kessel? Meanwhile every other draft a Getzlaf/Parise level player comes out at 23rd in the first round.

    Nice going Leafs. Load up with goons, trade away the future, and hope for the best.

    PS: Anyone who thinks Lowe was anything less than Norman Bates level crazy to risk 4 first round picks for fucking Vanek, needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

  76. B.C.B. says:

    Kris, science is forming a hypothesis and then looking for disproof in the numbers (or deduction). History is looking at the numbers to form a hypothesis (or induction). I think Tyler is accusing Bruce of looking for proof not disproof. I think most researchers (including myself) do this most of the time, and even the best researchers do this some of the time.

  77. Steve says:

    Only idiots trade away 1st round picks for anything less than a superstar.

    I think hindsight makes the Roloson trade look pretty decent. Even if we disregard the re-signing (which wasn't the direct result of the trade, though I suspect was related), that trade got us to game 7 of the finals and, had Roloson stayed healthy, might well have won us the Cup. I think that's worth a first rounder, especially given that it turned out to be 17th overall.

    Agree with you about Vanek, though.

  78. Steve says:

    With that said, the guy who that pick was used for seems likely to have a career. But I still take the Cup run over him.

  79. Lowetide says:

    I'm very interested in seeing what Burke is going to give up for Kessel. If it's more than an offer sheet is worth then he's addled and if it's less then I wonder why the Bruins would do it?

    Also, why on earth would the Bruins take just picks? Unless there's another deal afterward?

    Burke is certainly "building" for the future?

  80. Bruce says:

    //I form hypotheses and look for support in the numbers //

    Sorry Bruce, but I think you mispoke here. That's exactly what Tyler is accusing you of.

    You're right I did misspeak.What I meant to say was:

    Of course sometimes I form hypotheses and look for support in the numbers, but very often those hypotheses have their genesis in the numbers themselves.

    … which is pretty much exactly what Tyler said here:

    I try to come at it from a different angle, even where I'm starting with a belief: "If this was true, how would it show up in the numbers? Does it show up that way?"

    And yes, it obviously doesn't go without saying that I look for numbers to confirm and/or to disconfirm, so I had better say it explicitly.

    I think Tyler is accusing Bruce of looking for proof not disproof. I think most researchers (including myself) do this most of the time, and even the best researchers do this some of the time.

    Yes that is it exactly. I think the above comments can be interpreted that "most researchers including Tyler and Bruce do this some of the time". I freely admit to doing so, and don't for the life of me see what's wrong with that.

    I didn't bring up Zorg, either. Actual, there is no mention till Knighttown's comment.

    Sorry, B.C.B., mistaken identity. KT's comment responded to Kris's remark …

    "I don't think, MC, that Bruce intentionally leaves anything out in his analysis of Zorg. Rather, you and he have an honest disagreement about whether Zorg.'s decent ES goal differential is inflated and likely to come down."

    … thought it was you, and didn't go way back up the page to check (until now). My bad.

    The interesting thing about that comment is how it narrows my apparently mistaken misrepresentation of numbers to apply only to Zorg. :)

    Whatever, I have just gotten a ticket to tonight's game, so I'll STFU here for awhile and maybe put something up on Copper & Blue after the game.

    Enjoy the game, everybody!

  81. Woodguy says:

    Leafs might trade 2 of them away, for Kessel? Meanwhile every other draft a Getzlaf/Parise level player comes out at 23rd in the first round.

    Nice going Leafs. Load up with goons, trade away the future, and hope for the best.

    How many 21 year old 30 goals scorers have there been lately?

    What is that worth?

    How many 1st rounders turn into 30 goal scorers at 21?

    How often can you be lucky/smart enough to get Getzlaf/Parise late?

    The Leafs do not have the goons locked up long term. They have their defense locked up for next year, then Blake, Bozeman, Hagman, Grabovski and Orr for forwards.

    26M in cap space available next year according to CapGeek.

    Given the plethora of forwards that were available this year as UFA's….and some really cheap….his plan may not be so flawed.

    If the cap goes down, there will probably be more forwards available given how many reasonable players that may be hitting the waiver wire and teams looking to trade a player for next to nothing to clear cap space.

  82. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    Any GM with a lot of cap space next summer is going to make out like a Belgian carotteuse.

  83. knighttown says:

    @Bruce/BCB
    I didn't bring up Zorg, either. I brought up O'Marra. Actual, there is no mention till Knighttown's comment. I think we all are getting our blogs (and their comment sections) confused

    That's the post that got me thinking about Zorg BCB. I didn't mean to imply Bruce was defending him in this post. Even if you were, stick with it…it's a defenseable position.

    BCB's comment about O'Marra playing with 46 and only needing to win faceoffs was very intriguing. I'm very, very concerned about how much he'll miss Brodziak. That 4th line during the spring of 2008 was something to behold. Now 2/3 are gone and 46 is all that's left. He went through an awful stretch at the beginning of last year trying to adjust to new linemates.

    2009/10 will likely see 46 anchor a line for the first time in his career. Whether its Brule, Poo, Brennan, Stone, Nilsson, O'Marra or MacIntyre none of those guys have ever succeeded in a 4th line/NHL role in their careers.

    Shrug it off if you want but as Dennis will remember from a game I attended in Montreal, the puck going the wrong way for 8-10 minutes can cost you hockey games, especially on the road.

    If the 4th line sucks, what the fuck do we do on a defensive zone faceoff:

    1. Cogliano at 3C loses 2/3 of his draws.
    2. Crappy 4th line versus, say Sedins/Samuelsson.
    3. Gagner versus Getzlaf/Perry.

    Those are the three circles of hell so more #10. Seriously, that guy would lead the NHL in icetime (F) with certain coaching.

    LT's discussed a 3C all year and its a hole for sure. However, a dominant 4th line like Brod-Glencross-Stortini would make a huge difference.

  84. mc79hockey says:

    Bruce –

    As far as the Lucic thing goes, what I found objectionable about your analysis there was that you seem to have found some guys who became stars and worked backwards from there. What I found objectionable about it is that a) Lucic had a ridiculous shooting percentage and b) you didn't seem to allow for the fact that there must be tons of players who had the same numbers as Neely and Shanahan et al. at age 20 who didn't go on to become NHL stars.

    Here's the list of forwards who scored at least 10 goals and had at least 100 PIMs at age 20. It's sorted by shots. It's a star-studded list – at the top. When you start getting down to the lower reaches, it's not nearly as impressive. Guys like Neely and Tocchet did, in fact, have relatively low shot totals but those exploded relatively quickly therafter. We don't have TOI numbers for them but Lucic was getting a lot of ES TOI last year, although not much on the PP. I don't have it handy but his ESS/60 is horrible.

    Citing Neely and those guys as potential comps for him and failing to mention Al Secord misses the point in my opinion. I mean this is what you said:

    . My point is not so much to "predict" where Lucic's career is going as to find equivalencies to this point and establish possible comps for future reference. SO FAR, he stands up to the elite power forward test very well indeed.

    And you did find equivalencies. You also skipped out on a bunch who didn't become future stars. That's what I mean about finding evidence to support your position, rather than formulating your position based on evidence. Incidentally – of the 40 players on the list I've linked too, Lucic had the seventh highest shooting percentage. If he isn't really a Tanguay class finisher, he becomes considerably less impressive.

    We'll see, I guess.

  85. quain says:

    Any time you can be in the same league as a guy named Wilf you know you're in good company.

  86. Traktor says:

    "could you please enlighten me on the "saw off" term?"

    To saw off is to take the opposition to a draw or better (usually determined by GFON/60 minus GAON/60).

    Both Horcoff and Malhotra sawed off top opposition last year.

    Kris: Its hard for me to place a number on what will justify Horcoff's contract because I think it should come in the form of increased defensive responsibilities rather than increased offensive production.

    We've heard Quinn talk about hiding players' weaknesses and I think to do that certain players will have to be thrown to the wolves.

    I could post a number and a line in the sand but Horcoff's true value will be revealed when the kids and Hemsky explode offensively because Horcoff put in a great deal of work to hid their weaknesses.

  87. kris says:

    Bruce,

    I think you're always right.

    Except about Zardoz, where you're always wrong. :)

    Where is this Lucic debate? Thought I knew the scene on Oiler blogs by know.

  88. kris says:

    Fair enough Traktor.

    How about a range of qual.comp numbers and a range of goal differential/60 numbers, then? (Maybe a Corsi as a side bet?)

    If Horcoff faces the toughest comp. out of all Oil forwards, while playing away from Hemsky, and has a GFON/60-GAON/60 that's, say 0.75 or higher, will you say he's worth his contract?

    That's a high bar, BTW. Granted, Malkin and your man Sedin were at about 1.2, but Crosby was at 0.58. Horc was at 0.49 last year, but I think he can do better. The best Oiler, Penner, was at 0.85 and he didn't face Horcoff's level of competition.

    I'd be very happy if a Horcoff-Pisani line, which was facing the toughest comp., starting in their own end often, at about 0.5 or higher. I think that would show Horcoff's worth against the best the NHL has to offer.

  89. kris says:

    Of course, you'd also be right to say a high ES goal differential doesn't prove Horcoff's worth, unless Horcoff is also doing well with his Corsi number, i.e. that he's not just benefitting from a lucky shooting percentage or lucky SV% behind him. That happens.

  90. hunter1909 says:

    Steve – Roloson turned out to be a superstar during those playoffs so I would have to agree it was worth it.

    But who else remembers Idiot Lowe yapping during that summer he offer sheeted Vanek et al, how draft picks weren't really worth very much?

    Think California Golden Seals losing Guy Lafleur, for Lowe's ultimate destination in Palookaville.

  91. hunter1909 says:

    Lowe was just too weird.

    Prior to the strike he was like a Scottish farmer, carefully husbanding his meagre resources.

    He came out of the strike like Clyde Barker, at first stealing Pronger off the Blues then Spacek off the Hawks…

    Then after losing Pronger he turned into the proverbial drunk in a poker game.

    Amazing turnaround(all bad).

  92. loudog says:

    wtf?

    trying to stream the game online and I get "The game is not available in your area. Please check local listings for game time and channel location"..

    In edmonton, 7:10pm… ??

    Anyone else getting this?

  93. Coach pb9617 says:

    Steve – Roloson turned out to be a superstar during those playoffs so I would have to agree it was worth it.

    Results-oriented thinking kills puppies and ruins blogs.

  94. NBOilerFan says:

    I can't get the game through nhl.com tonight

    Anyone know of a site that is streaming the game to get around teh blackout?

  95. doritogrande says:

    TSN.ca confirms:

    Kessel to TOR for a 2010 First and Second rounder, with a 2011 first rounder possibly in play, pending a further trade.

    A 5th overall pick three years ago, to me that's worth a first and second. The winner of this deal is whoever gets (keeps?) that additional first round pick.

  96. Thrillho says:

    @ Mr Debakey

    Atta boy…

  97. doritogrande says:

    Holy hell. Crazy train just made the NHL.

  98. NBOilerFan says:

    Thanks Debakey!!!

  99. PDO says:

    JFJ just made the team.

  100. PDO says:

    Hey Dion:

    That's how it's done.

    Pansy.

  101. bookie says:

    Just joining in, What did JFJ do?

  102. Mr DeBakey says:

    I have the Panther's page at HFBoards open,
    they found the link
    I just copy pasted

  103. doritogrande says:

    Bookie:

    Stepped up on some Panthers kid along the boards, then cleaned the clock of the instigator Keefe.

    Exactly what we've been begging him to do for the last three seasons.

  104. Woodguy says:

    I'm at the SCARS fund raising banquet. What did JFJ do?

  105. doritogrande says:

    For those that are wondering, Kessel already has a contract with the leaves. 27/5 for a 5.4M caphit.

    There's your overpay that we're used to seeing from Leafland.

  106. NBOilerFan says:

    My god, Plante is a big man. He improves a bit more with his skating and look out.

  107. Black Dog says:

    $30000, can I get these 50/50 tickets online!?

  108. hunter1909 says:

    Panthers are a passive, plodding bunch of stiffs. So much so they remind me of last year's Oilers…

    Quinn's already got the Oilers entertaining me constantly, even Staios is fun to watch(WTF)…

    Schremp's the best powerplay guy on the ice. Horcoff(Traktor maybe has a point after all lol) fucked up on the powerplay…

    Khabibulin makes me feel better than Duane(will he let in a bunch of shitty goals or not)Roloson.

  109. doritogrande says:

    Did Ryan O'Marra impress anyone else in that period? He seemed to always be in good defensive position, crashed, and got a decent scoring chance off a turnover.

    That, and Charles Linglet is a big boy.

  110. Mr DeBakey says:

    You mean Charles Ling-lay?

  111. bookie says:

    Did someone say the 50/50 was $30,000. THat is amazing at a pre-season game – This ain't Pheonix!

  112. doritogrande says:

    Chorney scores. Great play to join the rush to make a 4-on-3. Stone with a great feed.

  113. Black Dog says:

    Hands off Bookie, its all mine.

    And with Chorney's goal its off to bed, wife works all weekend so need to unleash the chillins on the neighbourhood. Burn and pillage.

    O'Sullivan certainly is skating with confidence. Good to see.

  114. Phil says:

    I think we're watching Stone climb the depth chart, two steps at a time. Nice setup there.

  115. doritogrande says:

    And with Chorney's goal its off to bed, wife works all weekend so need to unleash the chillins on the neighbourhood. Burn and pillage.

    Icecream and women the spoils of war?

  116. doritogrande says:

    2-0 on a great shift from Comrie/O'sullivan.

  117. doritogrande says:

    Comrie (Stone)

    That's Stone's second point tonight.

  118. Phil says:

    …maybe three steps at a time.

  119. Black Dog says:

    dg – whatever we can get, whatever we can get

    Jacques is a load, isn't he?

    Stone with another assist.

    Making a good impression.

  120. Icecastles says:

    Oilers will contend for the division this year…

    Book it. ;)

  121. shepso says:

    I hate to admit…in fact, every fiber of my body hates to admit it, but Comrie looks good out there, beauty goal and he's really developing chemistry with patiofurniture. I like it. And, I like this stone guy too. Looks a lot better than JFJ has tonight, especially so far this period. Crazy train looked lost out there, especially on the pk.

  122. Scott Reynolds says:

    The other thing they've had some of the hopefuls doing is PK. Both Stone and Jacques (and O'Marra) got some time there. If one of those guys looks effective in a PK role he'll really help his case to stay in Edmonton.

  123. Icecastles says:

    Is there a player out there named Ling Ling?

  124. doritogrande says:

    Icecastles:

    You mentioned climbing Wallace a couple threads ago. I'm wondering what this exactly entailed? Because I saw some dude trying to scale the old Pharmacy building yesterday with climbing shoes and a mat to brace him if he fell.

    About 6', blonde dreads. That you?

  125. doritogrande says:

    Scott Reynolds:

    And it's really showing who's PK-capable too.

    O'Marra was always in great position, and created a shorthanded rush.

    Jacques failed to clear the puck twice in 4 seconds.

  126. Phil says:

    Brule very lucky not to be hurt there. Yikes.

  127. doritogrande says:

    Gilbert with a suicide pass to Brule, who promptly gets crosschecked from behind.

    Oilers 5-on-3

  128. doritogrande says:

    I'm loving the Comrie-O'Sullivan tandem right now. Another penalty drawn.

    2 minutes of 5-on-3

  129. Scott Reynolds says:

    On the PK, I'd say both Stone and O'Marra looked passable while JFJ looked lost.

    Were those catcalls for Comrie on the 5v3?

  130. doritogrande says:

    Horcoff and Die!

  131. doritogrande says:

    Horcoff (Comrie, Gilbert) on the 5-on-3.

  132. uni says:

    What a pass by Comrie…dude is playing like he has a bur up his…um…saddle.

  133. shepso says:

    Yeah, I am suddenly remembering why I liked Comrie back in the day…He looks like he did circa 01-02. I still vehemently dislike the guy, but if he can play like that against NHL players, we stole him based on the contract…

  134. doritogrande says:

    Crazytrain!

  135. doritogrande says:

    Jacques, PP (O'Sullivan, Comrie)

    Really, put those two with Gagner to absolutely murder the softies.

  136. shepso says:

    Sully Comrie Hemsky top line? I hope so…Either way, don't break up 19/91. this is surprisingly awesome

  137. Scott Reynolds says:

    You know, as much as these games don't matter, it's still a lot more fun and naturally hope-inducing to win.

  138. Steve says:

    If this is a regular season game, I'm thrilled. It being an exhibition game, I'd like to see Khabibulin given the chance to exhibit more.

  139. Icecastles says:

    Dorito: hell no, I look respectable. And I would never use something to "break my fall" Sounds like a pussy to me. I even play net without a cup. kay, actually I only did that once.

    Wow, all the right guys are scoring. I think Nilsson is going to be in some serious trouble though if enough newcomers keep showing the way they have been.

  140. doritogrande says:

    Steve:

    Agreed completely. I don't think Florida's icing any of their top-6 forwards.

  141. uni says:

    I think moreso than harming Nilsson's chances of staying on the Oilers, Comrie's signing seems to have torpedoed Schremp.

    Comrie's not only eating Schremp's bread and butter on the PP, he's stolen Schremp's girlfriend and mugged his mother as well from the looks of it.

  142. Icecastles says:

    I don't think Florida's icing any of their top-6 forwards.

    Can we pretend they are? Can we pretend they're playing against the Red Wings? Can Traktor pretend Horcoff didn't score?

  143. hunter1909 says:

    Panthers are a seriously terrible hockey team.

    And Souray's been invisible tonight.

  144. PDO says:

    I just want JFJ to get an assist.

    I don't even care it's against AHL'ers.

    He's on the fucking team!

  145. Yeti says:

    could Schremp be a cut on Monday?

  146. doritogrande says:

    Update on the Kessel trade. It's now a first and second in 2010 and a first in 2011.

    Burke should have just signed him to the offer sheet.

    Boston makes out like bandits because Toronto's still a non-playoff team this year.

  147. Lowetide says:

    I just got in, how many goals does Schremp have?

  148. bookie says:

    Comrie looks good out there, beauty goal and he's really developing chemistry

    Well, I think a lot of people were what is known as 'reactionary' when Comrie was signed, ranting and raving, but not thinking about the Player (who was hurt for most of last year). There is a very good chance that he is a crazy bargin. If the Oilers are true to their word (that some muckymucks might find themsleves as $2,500,000 Rubbydubs) then that frees up cap space, has no impact on team size (assuming the new rubbydub is a smurf), and improves the team.

    Competition for spots is good, as long as it is not artificial.

  149. uni says:

    WTF was Burke thinking, 2 1st round picks, and a 2nd for 5 years of Kessel at 5.4 million per?

    What happened to slowly rebuilding? Hell for that much green why not just sign the damn offer sheet and only give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd?

    Does Burke actually think he has enough players and high end prospects to go 2 years without picking a 1st?

    I was really starting to think I could stand to watch the Leafs again…but his is just BS.

  150. Scott Reynolds says:

    That Kessel deal is strange. What would cause Burke to give up a 1st (in 2011 as per trade) instead of a 3rd (in 2010 if he had done an offer sheet)? I assume Chiarelli was saying he had another deal on the table with a third team and he'd match any offer sheet which would be followed by a trade to the third team. Either way, the return is quite good for the Bruins.

  151. bookie says:

    could Schremp be a cut on Monday?

    Or sunday…

    Some of it depends on the decision to give him a fair chance and/or other factors (trying to make him look better as trade bait, etc.)

    He has not been brilliant today and i think he had to be.

  152. Lowetide says:

    bookie: I don't recall too many people feeling like the Comrie deal was a bad one, in fact pretty much everyone I've read felt it was a contract that should be considered close to a bargain.

  153. hunter1909 says:

    Schremp's scored all 4 goals so far, but they keep saying Comrie's scoring them all.

  154. bookie says:

    What would cause Burke to give up a 1st (in 2011 as per trade) instead of a 3rd (in 2010 if he had done an offer sheet)?

    Self-reflection on Holier-than-though statements aimed at K-Lowe 3 years ago??

  155. hunter1909 says:

    Given the fact that Boston have a genius for drafting, those picks the silly Leafs give up might well make Boston a cup winner.

  156. Traktor says:

    What time does Safeway close at?

  157. bookie says:

    the one by my home (westmount) closes at 11pm

  158. Steve says:

    Well, I think a lot of people were what is known as 'reactionary' when Comrie was signed, ranting and raving, but not thinking about the Player (who was hurt for most of last year). There is a very good chance that he is a crazy bargin.

    He is extremely likely to outperform his contract. But that's really only useful if it allows us to clear away some of the similar players who aren't as bargain-ish. If the next move is trading Nilsson for a checking centre (or burying him in the minors and using the money to sign one), great. But I don't see that as the plan.

    I was really starting to think I could stand to watch the Leafs again…but his is just BS.

    Really? It vastly increases my enthusiasm for watching the Leafs.

  159. doritogrande says:

    Looking back at those highlights, that Comrie cross-ice pass to Horcoff was sublime. It's one of those passes you see Hemsky make from time to time.

    I really, really hope he can work well with Gagner and kill the soft minutes with O'Sullivan.

  160. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: Quinn's got this team playing like the Washington Capitals right now. They're all crazy to get the puck, move forward in attack all the time – you wouldn't know it was the remnants of the 2008-09 Oilers out there.

  161. Steve says:

    What time does Safeway close at?

    The St. Albert northside one closes at 11. The Garneau Safeway closes at midnight. I think most others are 10 or 11.

  162. Traktor says:

    I don't know why but I always thought it was 9. Guess I can stay and watch the 3rd.

  163. PDO says:

    Traktor:

    Most close at 11…

    I feel like I'm missing a joke though.

    Also, what's your action like tomorrow night? I like Belfort as a dog, and Cro Cop as a dog is tempting but I think I'll lay off…

  164. bookie says:

    bookie: I don't recall too many people feeling like the Comrie deal was a bad one, in fact pretty much everyone I've read felt it was a contract that should be considered close to a bargain.

    I remember a lot of anger and people saying that it was Katz doing things that were bad for the team…

  165. doritogrande says:

    There's Jacques on the forecheck again. He's impressed me tonight, regardless of what others are saying.

  166. bookie says:

    LT – Though I admit that once people heard the $$'s quite a few were ok with it…

    I think it was more frustration that the guy signed was less than 200lbs..

  167. bookie says:

    Did we miss a goal?

  168. uni says:

    Hunter: don't get too excited though. This is lots of fun, but as Bookie and others have pointed out, Florida is pretty much icing mostly prospects and career AHL players right now.

  169. Phil says:

    Ok, so I'll start the line combo talk. If Sully and Comrie are reading each other's mail, do you put Gagner at centre for a soft killer line, Horcoff at centre and try to make it a somewhat pvp line, or use one of Sully or Comrie at C, and give them Hemsky on the other wing?

  170. Traktor says:

    PDO:

    I'm leaning towards Rich Franklin but I've hit a dry patch and I'm pretty jaded.

  171. PDO says:

    … Comrie just got a Gordie Howe Hatty.

  172. doritogrande says:

    Comrie with the Gordie Howe.

    What?

  173. bookie says:

    Everybody is gonna boo Comrie when he comes back….

  174. gary b says:

    Comrie should go into PR after he calls it a career.

  175. uni says:

    I never thought I'd see the day where Comrie would have a Gordie Howe hat-trick.

    Dude just won over the fans in a pre-season game no less.

  176. Black Gold says:

    I think comrie wants the fans back.

    good for him. I like it.

  177. Scott Reynolds says:

    "Com-rie, Com-rie"

    Bizarro.

  178. Steve says:

    No Gordie Howe – they gave Comrie's goal to O'Sullivan.

  179. uni says:

    Also not that I have anything against S-Mac, but Brennan looks like a considerably superior player.

  180. Phil says:

    Well, Comrie with the Gordie Howe… What, is he selling popcorn between shifts?

  181. doritogrande says:

    I smell a new Brick promotion…

    "My son fights, everyone gets a complimentary end-table with purchase of a sofa set"

  182. Lowetide says:

    I do think the Comrie signing indicates Katz is heavily involved and that isn't a good idea. The Comrie dollars are another issue.

  183. Lucinius says:

    Sad thing is Vokoun has also made same very good saves.

    Some of these guys are trying their best to make the supposed "locked" lineup some were talking about far less certain.

    I wish Shremp would have a better go of it, however, so we could trade him for something.

  184. PDO says:

    Traktor:

    That puts two of us in the same boat. 101 and 102 were gross for me… I think I lost a good 15 units between the two of them after consistently winning a minimum of 5 every UFC for ages and occasionally hitting it big.

  185. Scott Reynolds says:

    This Florida team is terrible and/or disheartened. I mean, the last two shifts had O'marra/Linglet/Lazo followed by Brennan/Stortini/Brule just dominating territorially. And it isn't really an exception. It's probably a bit frustrating making a good evaluation.

  186. bookie says:

    LT- I went back and looked and you are correct, generally good comments when Comrie was signed. Strangly enough, before he was signed there was a lot more negativity. I guess once you bought the cow you start to like the milk?

  187. Phil says:

    I didn't see a penalty there.

  188. Steve says:

    Hey, Mike Duco's on the Panthers. I remember being favourably impressed when he was in the Oilers' camp last year or the year before.

  189. doritogrande says:

    O'Sullivan looking good on the PK.

    He's having a game tonight.

    Brule/Jacques the next pairing.

  190. uni says:

    Brule has a lot of try and pretty good positioning/anticipation on the PK. If only he was a few inches taller and a few pounds heavier.

  191. bookie says:

    I do think the Comrie signing indicates Katz is heavily involved and that isn't a good idea.

    Well, if I were Tambellini and I was assured that I was allowed to send underperformers down to the AHL (if Daddy Katz gave me a blank cheque to do this), then the Comrie deal looks pretty smart because it creates competition and it improves the chance of a star rising. So it could still be a Tambellini decision.

  192. doritogrande says:

    Uni:

    I haven't been impressed enough to ink him clear of the 14th forward slot on this team. Especially with the way Stone has played the last couple games. If Potulny shows up in his next game, we may be putting that waiver eligibility to the test.

  193. Icecastles says:

    Noooooo I hate the kisscam.

    Although… A shot of Comrie and Lowe insid ethat heart would change my mind.

  194. uni says:

    I think Brule looks like he has the head for it, and the drive, but he ends up being outmuscled a lot. Like I said, if only the guy had a bit more size (the good type).

    I'd also like to see more of Lazo and what he can do. Very curious about that bloke.

  195. Scott Reynolds says:

    Given the way the game has gone I was a bit surpised that Comrie didn't end up on the kiss cam with Ms. Duff.

  196. doritogrande says:

    Dear Mr. Frosted tips in the Oilers jersey,

    We can read lips sir.

    Sincerely,

    doritogrande.

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