Quinn Quotes

Pat Quinn’s media scrums are interesting and informative. We know this because when he coached the Leafs there were so many on various media outlets that when we see him now it’s a surprise that names like “Sundin” and “Kaberle” have been replaced by “Hemsky” and “Souray.”

He’s been on fire this weekend with a ton of wonderful insight into the team, his plans, and a few things he’s mulling over at this time.

I believe Quinn (like MacT before him) treats his audience (media and fans) with respect and neither lies nor dumbs it down. He speaks with sincerity and addresses actual issues that impact the club.

There aren’t many NHL coaches old enough to be my Dad, but Pat Quinn is one of them and he definitely commands that kind of respect. He’s real. One quote that really caught my attention tonight is the following:

  • “I do know as we go through we have a good level of skill, and some size on some people, when I came here I didn’t think we had any size but I see a couple of boys who do have size. We may be able to put together some lines that have real balance. We may be able to have 3, maybe even 4 lines that can play some good time. It doesn’t even mean–we may not play even Hemsky and Horcoff together.”

A quick note–that’s not exactly what he said, when transcribing I cleaned it up a little. I believe the overall thrust of Quinn’s comments are reflected here, but if they don’t allow me to apologize.

That said, you could go a long time and not riff something that interesting. When he talks about size, there’s a limited number of people who are signed to NHL contracts with what we might call good size up front:

  • Steve MacIntyre: 6.05, 250
  • Dustin Penner: 6.04, 235 (based on weight loss reports)
  • Zack Stortini: 6.03, 230
  • Ethan Moreau: 6.02, 220
  • JF Jacques: 6.04, 217
  • Shawn Horcoff: 6.01, 208
  • Fernando Pisani: 6.01, 205

I’m throwing Horcoff and Pisani in because they’re certainly not “small” forwards and since we don’t have an exact description from the coach it is better to error on the outer marker.

When he talks about splitting people up and not having a specific 1line, or having 4 lines that can play significant minutes (and he did talk about pairings up front as opposed to lines), I think we need to be very careful in taking his words too literally. The Oilers don’t have enough good players to roll 4 lines without regard to the opposition players.

Having said that, if Quinn planned to match the bigger men with that large group of undersized ones, could he come up with 4 (or more) pairings:

  1. Horcoff-Hemsky
  2. Pisani-Cogliano
  3. Penner-Gagner
  4. Moreau-Comrie
  5. Stortini-Nilsson
  6. Jacques-Pouliot
  7. MacIntyre-Brule

I didn’t include Patrick O’Sullivan on that list, but he could match up with any of 1 through 3 without much trouble. I think there are a few things we can conclude from this idea:

  • Steve MacIntyre’s NHL career is in some trouble. He could make the team as a 14F but if this is the plan the Oilers might just dress Strudwick for LW on nights when another tough guy is required.
  • There will still be at least one line that is 2/3′s undersized.
  • If Pat Quinn had the concern about size among forwards and can see an out, then guys like me should probably stop harping on the point.
  • Among the group of players who don’t have NHL contracts, Ryan Stone, Colin McDonald and Geoff Paukovich have more arrows in the right direction than they did one day ago. It might be nothing, but they have size and the coach was looking for it.

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63 Responses to "Quinn Quotes"

  1. Peter says:

    Until you're proven right, I won't let this McDonald-Paukovich thing go. Besides having zero shot of making the club, I don't think either of them are in the top 3 call-ups. Stone is closer, but I don't think he'll make the team either, unless a trade opens up a spot, if not 2.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Peter: I'm not saying they're going to make the team, I'm saying they are more "in the picture" than they were or we as a group thought they were.

    If you wish to prove me wrong, you're a little late. It's been done before. :-)

  3. Racki says:

    It's almost scary in a way when you think about the fact that we have a new face (or set of faces) in here evaluating this team. Guys that we never thought would have made the team, and guys that we thought were shoe-ins might not. I mean, it's not like Moreau or Gagner or Cogliano or someone will get dropped, but someone like MacIntyre (as you mentioned) or even a guy like Stortini (which I think would be a crazy decision) technically could get bumped out if Quinn doesn't like what he sees right away. Really it IS a clean slate for everyone. Everyone has to re-prove themselves. And really, that is good in a way for competition, but I'm a bit nervous that some players might get pushed off the team (I get pretty attached to everyone, admittedly).

    I feel especially sorry for Steve MacIntyre, as his career was rejuvinated here and you could very well be right that he could be on the way out. I'm hoping though that the time he spent working on his skating in the off-season was beneficial enough.

    I guess we'll see! But this team could have a completely different look, even though most of the players are the same.

  4. Lowetide says:

    Racki: I don't think Stortini will get cut, but MacIntyre is in some trouble here with Quinn's 4line statment.

    If we agree that Horcoff, Penner, Hemsky, Gagner, Cogliano, O'Sullivan, Comrie, Moreau, Pisani and Stortini are locks then that's 10 that we don't worry about.

    The 2 spots on the 4line would likely go to two of Nilsson, Brule, Pouliot or Jacques.

    The question becomes do the Oilers use all 14 slots or just 13 for cap room? Do they keep all 4 of the players mentioned above or deal one in favor of a MacIntyre or a Stone?

    Do they perhaps pluck someone from waivers?

    Interesting month ahead.

  5. doritogrande says:

    Please keep all these pertinent comments coming for those of us who don't have the luxury of the Edmonton Journal every morning. Your work, along with the always insightful writers of Copper and Blue as well as the hungover Jason Gregor are going to be hot items these next few weeks.

    Because instead of reading about the Edmonton Oilers tomorrow, I get the pleasure of reading the next bullshit excuse of one Mike (coughcoughREINBOLD) Kelly. Goddamn Bombers.

  6. Lowetide says:

    dorito: I suggest you also visit "Putting on the Foil" as that blog is doing some nice tc things. It's on my bloglist.

    As for the Bombers, that coach should be fired by the time I back out of the driveway tomorrow morning. Between the time they tried that stupid 3rd down direct snap at midfield until the end of the game they were flattened every possible way.

    My wife relaxed during a Roughrider game, the first time in memory. Laughed, called her sister, had a wonderful day.

    I hated every minute of it.

  7. Psyche says:

    As a Bomber fan I would appreciate if everyone talked about the Oilers instead. It just hurts too much to think about the Blue & Gold after today's game. I need to escape in Oilerisms and Quinn-quotes for awhile. Sigh.

  8. bookie says:

    I feel especially sorry for Steve MacIntyre, as his career was rejuvinated here and you could very well be right that he could be on the way out.

    My feeling about MacIntyre is he is one of the luckiest louts (I say that affectionatly) around. He gets a year in the NHL, 2 goals, and $500,000+ in salary. That is a hell of a lot better than most marginal AHLers get. I think it is the feel good story of the year. Like Rudy, but bigger.

  9. bookie says:

    LT – The problem with Quinn's comments is that his eyesight is failing with age and he didn't notice that Comrie was riding on Ganger's shoulder all day and they were wearing Macintyres other practice jersey. Apparently Nilsson was riding Cogliano.

    Its all a plan by Tambi to keep the coach happy until game day…

  10. Traktor says:

    I think Quinn was impressed with Stortini. A guy that can play 12+ minutes a night, fight at the drop of the hat and not be a liability is a rare, rare commodity. I think Peckham will get a long look for the same reasons.

  11. spOILer says:

    If Pat Quinn had the concern about size among forwards and can see an out, then guys like me should probably stop harping on the point.

    Quinn has also been preaching the religion of optimism this weekend, maybe that virtue is being utilized for our benefit too.

    I like some of your pairings. I'm pretty big on pairings over lines, and I'm also big on passers with shooters.

    Horcoff-Hemsky
    Pisani-Cogliano
    Penner-Gagner
    Moreau-Comrie
    Stortini-Nilsson
    Jacques-Pouliot
    MacIntyre-Brule

    If I'm Quinn and this small-big pairing is the philosophy, I'm thinking a couple of things:

    Not many of my big guys are good passers, however Jacques is. So JFJ likely makes my roster.

    O'Sullivan takes so many shots, that it is important to pair him with a passer rather than slotting anywhere.

    I'm okay with the Moreau-Comrie pairing, although that places Comrie in a somewhat set-up role rather than a finisher role and allegedly we got him because we need finishers.

    However he'll get a shot at a lot of rebounds with Rifles out there, and Ethan can dig the puck out of the corner as well as some times pass off the rush.

    It looks to me like you're placing more emphasis on a vet-newb philosophy, whch I can understand, especially considering what's left over to fill in the missing third.

    So, extending from your pairings…

    OSul Horc Hems
    Penn Gagn Nils(butter)
    More Comr Pisa
    Jacq Cogl Stor
    Poul

    Hmm. seems like one of Cogliano or Comrie can't be centre. Demoting an LW reduces size. How about:

    Comr Horc Hems
    Penn Gagn Osul (butter)
    More Cogl Pisa
    Jacq Poul Nils
    Stor

    Still fits the rules. Try it with Hemsky and O'Sully switched and if Paddy can keep the line out-scoring while going PvP, then leave Hemmer with Gags and Dustin to lick up the butter.

    Either way, I think the two tougher minutes lines are a little better. With Comrie coming and either he or Cogs playing centre, it seems O'Sullivan is virtually guaranteed to be a RWer, or somebody important is playing 4th line centre. Pretty blah 4th i have there though. I'd prefer a Potulny-type at centre or someone who's going to take a lot of shots, with those two wingers.

    But I still think we need a vet centre and some bodies dumped, but at the same time I'd really like to see what Nilsson can bring this year.

    And we don't know how much Hemsky is going to be double-shifted at EVs or on the PP. O'Sullivan should help them out there.

  12. bookie says:

    If we are mixing size and talent, shouldn't one of the pairing be

    Heatley-Thornton

    Oh wait, thats not us, sorry.

  13. Racki says:

    Lowetide: First off, thanks a lot for mentioning my blog (Putting On The Foil) to people. Secondly, I sure hope you're right about Stortini. I don't see why he would be bumped off the team though, as he was a big surprise last year, and is one of our few players with size. I was just thinking that Quinn is very unfamiliar with the team, and as such everyone is going to have a lot to prove in order to stay here. There will be no free rides this year. I'm sure Stortini will impress him enough though.

    I really with I could have woken myself up early enough to go to the training camp today though as it sounds like Nilsson looked really good out there. I've been promoting his departure this off-season, but I'll be laying off. It's pretty open this year and there are a few spots that are up for grabs with quite a few guys fighting for them.

  14. matt says:

    Quinn has been around a while. Might this not just be "clean-up" comments designed to take back his earlier size concerns now that mgmt has said "noone else is inbound"?

  15. bookie says:

    Does anyone else think that Quinn's supposed unfamiliarity with the team is strange? I mean, the guy has been coach for two months and there is this new fangled technology called Video Cassette Recorders that he could probably watch a few games on.

    He could probably get one of the technicians to set him up with a few games and some popcorn.

  16. blackadder says:

    I wonder if putting Cogliano and Hemsky together might work. Hemsky needs someone who can put his passes in the net and, I could be wrong, but Cogliano did have the best shooting % on the team last year. You'd need someone with some defensive awareness on that line to balance it out but it's a combination not many are looking at. But if you want to run four balanced lines, there's no harm in trying it during training camp.

    Horcoff-O'Sullivan-Pisani
    Cogliano-Moreau-Hemsky
    Gagner-Penner-Nilsson
    Comrie-Stortini-Pouliot
    Jacques-Brule

    There's some skill/grit on each of the top three lines, and if Nilsson starts to lose focus you can punt Comrie up to the Gagner line and turn the fourth line into an energy line with Brule and Jacques.

  17. Bruce says:

    Hmmm, maybe size isn't such a red herring after all. I been banging on that drum for a long time, and ordinarily I'm a defender of small skill players such as my favourite NHLer Martin St.Louis. But a balanced team (there's your favourite word again LT) needs to have a few big dudes in there somewhere, and they can't all be nailed to the end of the bench or the pressbox. Thus my rant earlier today about Tambellini's early trading record. Hopefully this GM will listen to this coach better than the previous incumbents in those positions.

  18. NBOilerFan says:

    bookie said…
    Does anyone else think that Quinn's supposed unfamiliarity with the team is strange?

    I was thinking the same thing yesterday…. and almost posted the same comment on here. From Quinn's commenst it still sounds like he has absolutely no idea what we have for a team. Sure seeing the mfirst hand is better then video, but seriously, he should have a pretty damn good idea before camp started with all teh video footage he had months to look at.

    ABlackadder – Please don't encourage posting teh lines with teh centers first… it's bad enough that LT does it that way, we don't need others to follow suit. :D

    I posted this in teh previous thread, but since others are posting their line sombo's I'll repost mine:

    The more i think about it, the more I'd like to see these two sets of lines;

    (1) Nilsson in/Jacques out

    O'Sullivan-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Nilsson-Gagner-Cogliano
    Penner-Comrie-Pisani
    Moreau-Pouliot-Stortini

    (2) Jacques in/Nilsson out

    O'Sullivan/Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Penner/O'Sullivan-Gagner-Cogliano
    Moreau-Comrie-Pisani
    Jacques-Pouliot-Storti

  19. NBOilerFan says:

    Speaking of Quinns' quotes, it sure sounds like he was not happy with management bringing this many bodies to camp nor this pre-season game schedule (maybe this is not managements doing?).

    My god…. I love this time of year. The only thing better then the day before the first pre-season game, is the day before the first regular season game.

  20. NBOilerFan says:

    And one more thing before i get back to work… this is from Dan Tencer…

    Edmonton Oilers defenseman Lubomir Visnovsky, who had shoulder surgery last season… hasn't quite progressed in his rehab as fast as the team had hoped… the problem is an inability to fully rotate the injured shoulder and a slightly inadequate amount of strength in the surgically repaired area. Visnovsky will continue to rehab with Dr. Dave Magee to stretch out the shoulder and rebuild the strength."

    Maybe I'm junping to the wrong conclusion here, but it would appear that he perhaps was not doing a very good job at rehabiliating the shoulder over the summer. Who's responsibility is this?

    The Oilers should have monthly checkups with players on injury rehailiation, or at least on surgury rehabilitation, to ensure that the injury is getting rehabilitated properly and there is an adequate rehabilitation program in place.

  21. Doogie2K says:

    Maybe I'm junping to the wrong conclusion here, but it would appear that he perhaps was not doing a very good job at rehabiliating the shoulder over the summer. Who's responsibility is this?

    I believe it was originally sugested that it might be early in the regular season before he returned, no? Besides, everyone's body reacts differently. Some guys take four months to rehab a shoulder, some take six.

  22. Travis Dakin says:

    NBOilerFan- From the sounds of things in the past, Visnovsky is apparently one of the top shape guys on the team. I doubt he wasn't putting top effort into rehab over the summer. It sounds more like a case of a 33 year old taking a little longer than a 23 year old to recover. And they did say it's only a week or so off.

  23. Krankor says:

    Somebody (Tencer? Gregor?) made a comment about Lubo looking very fit ("best body on the team" or something similarly homoerotic).

    Given that's he's a fitness nut, I doubt he spent the summer in the La-Z-Boy eating whatever equivalent of Cheetos you can buy in Slovakia (Čžeetošž, perhaps?)

  24. Woodguy says:

    I think Quinn was impressed with Stortini. A guy that can play 12+ minutes a night, fight at the drop of the hat and not be a liability is a rare, rare commodity.

    This is a bit of a stretch and I twist the numbers to say what I want a bit, but some interesting numbers. All 5v5.

    Quality Comp
    Lucic .006 4th on team
    Zorg -.133 13th on team

    Quality Teamates
    Lucic .414 2nd on team
    Zorg -.117 tied 13th on team

    So Zorg plays the dregs, but with the dregs. Lucic plays with the best against the 2 line of the opposition.

    Results:

    GF/60
    Lucic .95 6th on team
    Zorg .96 2nd on team

    Asst1/60
    Lucic .44 10th on team
    Zorg .64 7th on team

    At this point Zorg is ahead!! :)

    Asst2/60
    Lucic .82 2nd on team
    Zorg .16 11th on team

    PTS/60
    Lucic 2.21 7th on team
    Zorg 1.76 2nd on team

    So, Lucic is playing with the best team mates and is loading up his points with 2nd assits by dishing off to the skill guys and letting them do their thing!!!

    Zorg is actually ahead of him in GF/60 and Asst1/60!!!

    Sure Lucic did it against better comp, but he was playing with Savard and Kessel.

    In this vein when I bring Old Timey Coach his afternoon blood boosting tonic and nostrum, I will suggest this as our second line.

    Nilsson/Cog LW, Gagne C, ZORG RW.

    All I am saying….is give Zorg a chance.
    -Bruce Lennon

  25. Ender says:

    If Nintendo has taught me anything, 3 Skinny guys can beat 3 big guys any day of the week, but those 3 medium guys… they're tough to play against.

  26. Ender says:

    @NBOilerFan

    Lubo was in ridiculously great shape before surgery and sometimes that can hurt you. More muscle on your shoulder means more muscle that needs to heal, and rushing that process leads to tight muscle which is quickly re-injured.

    Give the guy some time. Someone with his weight density needs it.

  27. Mr DeBakey says:

    One thing about size
    Its more than just Quinn.
    Tambo wants it too.
    It was obvious from the way Daum handled the Falcons last season.
    Schremp & Lerg were vanished.
    McDonald, Paukovich & Lefebvre were pushed.

  28. NBOilerFan says:

    @ Travis-Dakin & Krankor – I am talking shoulder rehab, not physical fitness, there is a big difference.

    @ Doogie2k – That is why I said I said I might be jumping to the wrong conclusion because I honestly don't know how long it takes to heal and recover from this type of surgery. But I know he had the surgery in mid-Feb and it’s now mid-Sept – that is 7 months. And I know they are saying he "should" be ready to go come )ct 1st, but based on the concern being expressed, and how gingerly he was playing on day one of TC, he appears to be a bit further out then hoped, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start Game 1.

    @ Ender – Great point.

    As I recall, Souray had his shoulder surgery mid-Feb the previous season, and I realize the injury is not the same, but it was also Souray's multiple dislocation which adds to his issue and he was good to go come the following fall.

    My point was really, how close to the Oilers (teams) following players and rehab in off-seasons? Considering how big of a part Lubo plays on this team, I would think it be prudent to closely monitor his rehabilitation program, and progress. Perhaps that was all done, and perhaps this is even ahead of schedule for such a surgery? But my comment came from my initial reaction – which admittedly so, could be way of base.

  29. NBOilerFan says:

    FYI – Just incase anyone is interested, Seidenberg just signed a 1-year/$2.25M deal with Florida.

  30. mc79hockey says:

    Somebody (Tencer? Gregor?) made a comment about Lubo looking very fit ("best body on the team" or something similarly homoerotic).

    I always found it hilarious that Gregor or Stauffer would go on at length about Dustin Penner's body. It just drips with homoerotic subtext. Meanwhile, Gregor is so uncomfortable with the gay that he suggested Sean Penn should have won an Oscar because he kissed a dude in a movie.

  31. Travis Dakin says:

    It's not the kissing of the guy that is hard, it's the "acting" like you want it or liked it that deserve the Oscar. ha
    Relax folks I'm just playing.

  32. NBOilerFan says:

    mc79hockey said…
    Gregor is so uncomfortable with the gay that he suggested Sean Penn should have won an Oscar because he kissed a dude in a movie.

    This is off topic of what you were driving at, but Penn certainly deserved an Oscar for that movie, but not for the reason purported.

    Penn is without a doubt one of my top-3 favorite actors. Has been since the first movie I saw him in, Colors.

  33. bookie says:

    From the Journal "Typically, the veterans and prized prospects occupy the swanky main room at Rexall Place, while the balance of camp goers are moved into an auxiliary dressing room. This time, the 63 players were divided into three rooms, with an equitable mix of NHLers and hopefuls in each.

    "I wanted our veterans, our experienced guys, to be around our younger guys, our prospects. I want them to learn about our culture, our expectations, what it takes to be a good pro, and the only way to do that was to share," Quinn said after the first day of camp drew to a close.

    "The other thing is, we say every year that there are jobs open. If I say that and then stick all the rubbydubs in the one room, then it becomes false words."

    I like this. It at least shows he is trying to get into their heads – MacT always had difficulty understanding the unmotivated hockey player. Hopefully Quinn has greater insights.

  34. mc79hockey says:

    Can anyone translate "rubbydubs" for me? Does that mean the guys who have no shot or the guys who are locks?

  35. Steve says:

    I like it because he said "rubbydubs".

  36. gogliano says:

    Someone (Battle of Alberta, alongside terms of battle?) really needs to start a Pat Quinn dictionary.

  37. mc79hockey says:

    Google would seem to indicate that the rubbydubs are the longshots. If I understand this correctly, the locks are the "muckymucks".

  38. bookie says:

    RubbyDubs = A cabal or closely associated group of NHL players who know that they are really the kick ass 'real' NHL players and that the other drubs down the hall are just a bunch of wannabe's. The term is rooted in the the Rub a Dub Dub nature of three men in a tub who know that they are closely bonded to one another and are of special status…

    I vote Penner for 'the Baker'

  39. bookie says:

    Ok, I just made that up, maybe I got it wrong….

  40. Mr DeBakey says:

    Can anyone translate "rubbydubs" for me?

    Dagnabbit!
    This here new coach feller sure is usin a lotta high-falutin words!

  41. bookie says:

    I don't know about all of you, but this 'rubbydub' thing by Quinn really makes me excited for the long rambling and enjoyable blog conversations that we are going to have on LT's blog this year. I have already forgoten about the witticisms of MacSpengler.

  42. Bruce says:

    All I am saying….is give Zorg a chance.
    -Bruce Lennon

    That's all I've ever been saying, although rarely so concisely.

    True to form …

    This is a bit of a stretch and I twist the numbers to say what I want a bit, but some interesting numbers.

    Great comment, Woodguy. Is it OK in this thread to say I love Lucic as a player. I managed to snag him in my keeper league pool last year and I gleefully anticipate he will remain on my team for a long, long time. He's a keeper, fersher.

    I would also suggest that he has softer hands (and harder fists) than Zorg, and is simply a superior natural athlete who is 32 months younger. I only wish I had such lofty expectations of Zorg as I do of Lucic, who appears to be following the classic early career curve of the power forward, a la Messier, Neely, Shanahan, Tocchet, or Mister Hockey himself. Which in short is: spend the first couple of years making space for yourself, then spend the subsequent years taking advantage of that space. Time will tell as always, but Milan made enough real nifty passes last year to suggest that the offensive vision and talent is already starting to bubble through.

    As you say, having the linemates doesn't hurt, when you dig the puck out of the corner to Marc Savard who has Phil Kessel or Michael Ryder bursting through the slot, good things not only happen, they make the highlight reels. It's all about opportunity.

    In fairness I'd say both Stortini and Lucic are being developed at about the correct speed for each guy (although I would have been a lot happier if Zack had played the full 82 last year). Consulting my crystal ball, Stortini's upside is good-to-very-good team player; Lucic appears on the verge of becoming a star. So comparisons, while flattering (and interesting!), are likely unrealistic going forward.

    Nilsson/Cog LW, Gagne C, ZORG RW.

    I like that! Stortini in the Lucic role with two speed/skill guys. Would be good for a trial run at some point. Zorg would sure provide balance — if not ballast :D — to the line.

  43. Woodguy says:

    Thanks Bruce.

    Saw the GF/60 and Asst1/60 for both and thought I'd have a little fun with it.

    I do not think that Zorg has Lucic's "upside", but I think he can play in this league and has the very desirable quality of being very teachable and willing to do what he is told to do.

    Here are some more intersting numbers about everyone's favorite up and coming power forward, Milan Lucic.

    All number EV GF/20 via Hockey Analysis.com

    Lucic with Savard 1.23
    Lucic without Savard .651

    Lucic with Kessel 1.225
    Lucic without Kessel .732

    Savard with Lucic 1.24
    Savard without Lucic 1.29

    Kessel with Lucic 1.225
    Kessel without Lucic 1.04

    While Lucic plays well with those two, they certainly don't miss him much when he is gone (by this metric, and scoring wise he falls down a hole without them.

    Wonder how Lucic would do if he played with Zorg's linemates, and vice versa?

  44. mc79hockey says:

    Lucic had a lights out shooting percentage year as well. I'm not nearly as bullish on him as Bruce is. Guys like Neely et al. could score goals when they were 18; Lucic couldn't.

    It wouldn't surprise me if, ten years from now, Lucic has never been to another Team Canada camp and we all feel vaguely foolish for the hype.

  45. ian says:

    If Steve Mac was sent down it would likely be to the AHL which is still a higher level and bigger payday than he had 2 seasons ago.
    He is a very likeable guy who won the lottery financially but probably more important for him got to play and score in the NHL.
    If he needs to go then no man tears should be shed.

  46. kris says:

    Lucic is half rubbydub, half muckymuck.

    But his body is lean and beautiful.

  47. kris says:

    I wonder to what respect Quinn is involved in all the day to day coaching activities and how much he's leaving to Renney et. al.

    And I think this question will grow more important over the season.

  48. Alice says:

    /I wonder to what respect Quinn is involved in all the day to day coaching activities and how much he's leaving to Renney et. al.

    And I think this question will grow more important over the season./

    Why – are we afraid he's Grampa Simpson?

    I think they will share the job, hands-on, every day, with an eye to their own strengths. I can't imagine Quinn is in it just to provide zingers for the media chaps.

  49. PunjabiOil says:

    Apparently 16 PPV games, and 3 untelevised games this year as per a thread on HF.

    Sportsnet increased the number of flames game telecasts, at the expense of the Oilers.

    That's what happens when you miss playoffs on an otherwise regular basis.

  50. Doogie2K says:

    While Lucic plays well with those two, they certainly don't miss him much when he is gone (by this metric, and scoring wise he falls down a hole without them.

    Who typically replaces Lucic on the line? Where does Lucic typically wind up when not with Savard/Kessel? The answers may explain a hell of a lot.

  51. Jonathan Willis says:

    Doogie2K:

    Lucic generally plays with Ryder and Krejci when not with Savard & Kessel.

    Savard generally plays with Axelsson, Wheeler and Kobasew when not with Lucic.

    That's damning.

  52. Ribs says:

    Noun

    rubby-dub (plural rubby-dubs)

    1.A drunkard that drinks alcohol in non-beverage form, e.g., rubbing alcohol or canned heat.

    Who invited those guys to camp?

  53. Schitzo says:

    So I went down to Rexall yesterday and today, and my dark horse candidate for 4C?

    Ryan O'Marra. Seriously. He was playing like his career depends on it the last couple of days.

    (Because it likely does).

  54. bookie says:

    Quote from Sportsnet “He seems to be a teacher; he seems to talk to everyone,” said Edmonton’s first-line centreman, Shawn Horcoff. “He wants sharpness. He wants everyone to think on the same page, use our heads and secondly, be aggressive.

    “He’s given us a lot more leeway offensively to create chances.”

    Does this mean that they will be allowed to do more than one of two pre-designed plays on the power play?

  55. kris says:

    So I went down to Rexall yesterday and today, and my dark horse candidate for 4C?

    Ryan O'Marra. Seriously. He was playing like his career depends on it the last couple of days.

    (Because it likely does).

    You mean for the Falcons, right? :)

    —-

    Alice,

    You're totally right. I'm guessing blind and assuming too much about Quinn. Just a hunch. Could be subconscious "age-ism" on my part.

  56. kris says:

    For the Quinn-tionary:

    "Morning Glories": Players who are gifted offensively and full of promise, but who can't play at the NHL level. See Schremp, Rob.

  57. Bruce says:

    Lucic had a lights out shooting percentage year as well. I'm not nearly as bullish on him as Bruce is.

    MC: That's not the first time I've seen my name in context with a word like "bullish", and I anticipate it won't be the last.

    Guys like Neely et al. could score goals when they were 18; Lucic couldn't.

    MC: OK, let's check that out. First of all, et al in the example given were Messier, Shanahan, Tocchet, and Howe. So let's check out all of them, not just the one guy who was the best goal scorer at the youngest age and then lumping the rest in with him. That's a form of cherry picking, and let's just say I recognize the black art. :)

    Players below are listed in order of difficulty of league first, then goals.

    Goals at 17:

    Howe 22 (minor pro)
    Neely 56 (Major Junior)
    Shanahan 28 (Jr.)
    Tocchet 7 (Jr.)
    Lucic 3 (Jr.)
    Messier 17 (Tier II)

    Goals at 18:

    Neely 16 (NHL) + 8 (Jr.)
    Howe 7 (NHL)
    Messier 1 (WHA)
    Shanahan 39 (Jr.)
    Tocchet 32 (Jr.)
    Lucic 30 (Jr.)

    Goals at 19:

    Neely 21 (NHL)
    Howe 16 (NHL)
    Messier 12 (NHL)
    Lucic 8 (NHL)
    Shanahan 7 (NHL)
    Tocchet 44 (OHL)

    Goals at 20: (all NHL)

    Messier 23
    Shanahan 22
    Lucic 17
    Neely 14
    Tocchet 14
    Howe 12

    Goals at 21:

    Messier 50
    Neely 36
    Howe 35
    Shanahan 30
    Tocchet 14
    Lucic ???

    Many of these guys made the big jump at 21; Tocchet didn't break through 'til he was 23. I guess that's why he "only" scored 440 goals to go with his 2800 PiM.

    In this context, and in this illustrious group, Lucic has moved up from the bottom of the tables as a scorer at age 17 and 18 to comfortably in the middle of the pack at 20. Ahead of your man Neely btw, in a much lower scoring era.

    But that's all we know. My point is not so much to "predict" where Lucic's career is going as to find equivalencies to this point and establish possible comps for future reference. SO FAR, he stands up to the elite power forward test very well indeed. Whether he turns out to be the next Cam Neely or Rick Tocchet or "only", say, Clark Gillies, he's already a legend in Beantown. As the youngest forward in Olympic camp, he's definitely a Player Of Interest.

    It wouldn't surprise me if, ten years from now, Lucic has never been to another Team Canada camp and we all feel vaguely foolish for the hype.

    Right you are, Tyler, that's the fun part about guessing the future. We'll see how that hype stands up ten years from now. I don't think it will take that long, myself.

  58. Fake Craig McTavish says:

    kris said…
    For the Quinn-tionary:

    "Morning Glories": Players who are gifted offensively and full of promise, but who can't play at the NHL level. See Schremp, Rob.

    And here I though they were filthy Belgian bastards.

  59. flamingpavelbure says:

    Actually, i wouldn't be so damn surprised if O'marra made it. He's relatively big at 6''1 and 195, right handed center. And whatever you say, a top 25 first round pick always keeps an advantage. If 2 guys are exactly the same, and one's a 1st rounder and the other a 4th rounder, you can bet they will take the 1st rounder.

    If cogs moves to wing, then this could happen.

    Moreau-O'marra-JFJ/Storts

    4th lune?

  60. mc79hockey says:

    So let's check out all of them, not just the one guy who was the best goal scorer at the youngest age and then lumping the rest in with him. That's a form of cherry picking, and let's just say I recognize the black art. :)

    The problem with assuming motive in others is that you sometimes give away your own. I don't know why I mentioned Neely and then et al. – probably because Neely and Lucic are both Bruins.

  61. Doogie2K says:

    Lucic generally plays with Ryder and Krejci when not with Savard & Kessel.

    Savard generally plays with Axelsson, Wheeler and Kobasew when not with Lucic.

    That's damning.

    Ouch. I mean, it's possible that their play styles don't mesh — I didn't watch a ton of Bruins games or anything — but on the surface, that doesn't look too good.

  62. Bruce says:

    //So let's check out all of them, not just the one guy who was the best goal scorer at the youngest age and then lumping the rest in with him. That's a form of cherry picking, and let's just say I recognize the black art. :) //

    The problem with assuming motive in others is that you sometimes give away your own.

    Whatever. That's what the little smiley face was about.

    No comment on the actual results I spent a chunk of time digging up? They seem to run counter to your original point, and are much more worth talking about than "motive".

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