Training Camp Hopeful #6: Rob Schremp
I’ve always felt Rob Schremp was in need of an expansion draft. A brand new team looking to sell the game to a fresh hockey market could devote copious even-strength and special teams minutes to him in an effort to build the game.
However, the NHL isn’t looking to Houston or Portland or even Vegas (a perfect spot for him) at this time so Robbie has only 30 possible destinations.
This fall will be a different set of circumstances for him on several levels: MacT is gone, he is healthy and fit, and the coaching staff has turned over save for one guy who liked Schremp’s game when he coached the player in Springfield.
- So you’re saying MacT held him back? No, not at all. I think MacT would have given Schremp more games a year ago but the kid faded after a couple of acceptable games. Remember, MacTavish is the coach who always talked about the game being about what you take and what you leave. That was clearly his issue with Schremp.
- MacT was right to rip him? I don’t think he should have been as public but don’t really disagree with what was said about Schremp. The issues for this player in 2004 fall are the same issues as we’re dealing with now, and we know that other prospects worked hard in the same areas with good results.
- That’s not true, he progressed on all kinds of levels. Not really. Schremp’s pre-draft scouting reports mentioned things like “average skater” and “lacks defensive intensity” and here were are 5 long years later discussing the same things.
- You’re just looking at this past season. Well, let’s look at last season. Wasn’t Schremp supposed to be the big offensive weapon for that team? Remember he had a nice start to the season but fell flat later on. Seems to me if Robbie had continued to play well last winter this would be a different conversation.
- Well his confidence was shattered when MacT sent him down, that bastard. That’s just silly. Schremp came up, had a couple of games where he didn’t hurt the team and then he had some poor shifts and got sent down. I don’t think he earned a move up the depth chart based on those games so was sent down when the time came to make a roster move. It’s not all about Robbie. I think Schremp is such an emotional figure for some of the fanbase it has become impossible to discuss him rationally.
- Because you hate him. You’re making my point for me.
- I so wish he’d take Pouliot’s job, that would fix your wagon. I can’t state this strongly enough: they are never going to be in competition for the same job. Put simply, Pouliot’s offense didn’t come with him to the NHL but Schremp’s never gotten it through his head that he’s not Gretzky. He’s going to have to grab a shovel and start digging like pretty much everyone else, much like Daniel Cleary and Marty Reasoner did before him. There’s no Harlem Globetrotters hockey edition, so this is the world he lives in.
- What about his AHL season a year ago, you said he started well. Very well, especially at even strength. In his first 18 games with the Falcons, he was 1-12-13 .722 at even strength and that’s a very nice number. But he faded after that and was a disaster under Daum, scoring only 4 EV assists in 28 games after the new coach arrived in Springfield.
- So why is he even on this list? Schremp has skills in a narrow view and scoring goals is the hardest thing to do. He contributes to scoring and a team like Edmonton might find him useful when injuries hit.
- He has to clear waivers, you know. At this point I don’t think that’s a huge consideration for the team. If the NY Islanders claim him on waivers then so be it, the Oilers need to move forward with their own plan. In a lot of ways the team wrote this script when elevating Gagner and Cogliano in the fall of 2007.
- What’s this about Buchberger liking him? Bucky raved about him, saying “his vision is unbelievable at this level. He passes the puck like a pro.”
- So how does he make this roster? A strong training camp including some wizardry on the powerplay in pre-season and then an injury to one or more of the skilled men. Schremp’s skills are duplicated all over this roster so he’s going to need some luck early. If Quinn pairs him with Robert Nilsson and they show that same magic they had in the AHL maybe that gets him noticed.
Can we talk about SMac, instead?
I've been waiting for this inevitable post and wasn't disappointed. That was hilarious.
Beauty post LT. Love it.
Is it distracting to have a split personality – one side that irrationally loves Robbie and another that doesn't? Does it ever end in fisticuffs with yourself (ala Fight Club)?
It's not all about Robbie.
Your sadly mistaken
Because you hate him. You're making my point for me.
Brilliant. Thank you so much for this series, LT.
Didn't Billy Joel talk about the angry voice inside each of us? Glad you let yours out.
Brilliant take too. Thanks LT.
Great Post, but not near enough F-bombs in there when you're talking about "Rob Schremp Hockey!"
Nice.
And you didn't even nick him for recently contracting foot-mouth disease.
I got a PERFECT (Litteraly) 4th line player for the Oilers.
No need of Smac, or Paukovich, or Stortini.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=31863
Tom Kostopoulos
Can hit, pass, score, plays with Grit, intelligent Penalty Killer, and most fun part, He wont cost shit!
Bure…He signed a 3 year deal with Carolina in July. At least look things up before blurting them out at random, please.
Flaming: Tom K. signed signed by the Canes in July.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009/07/14/sp-hurricanes-kostopoulos.html
Oh my bad did not noticed… but he would have been perfect tough
Weren't there some rumors the Oilers were interested before he signed? Don't know if they had anything to them, but I remember them coming out in a couple places…
Yes – the Oilers attempted to sign Kostopoulos.
It's as simple as this – there are two kinds of hockey fans:
1. Those that like Rob Schremp
2. Those that don't
Neither can fully explain their position without emotion taking over because your affinity or lack thereof for Rob Schremp is not a choice that you can make. You were born with or without the ability to like Rob Schremp and you will never be able to explain why.
- If Rob Schremp was a vegetable he'd be an Olive.
- If Rob Schremp was a fast food restaurant he'd be Mr. Sub
- If Rob Schremp was a Beatles album he'd be Magical Mystery Tour.
In all seriousness, Rob Schremp decided four years ago he was going to make his mark on his own terms, and 4 years later its not working… it's about time the kid actually tried learning something… instead he's telling anyone who will listen that he's going to do it his way.
This is not the recipe for a successful career.
gonadsgo said…
It's as simple as this – there are two kinds of hockey fans:
1. Those that like Rob Schremp
2. Those that don't
Nope.
3. Those that don't care.
There are two kinds of people: Those who can easily be put into categories, and those who can't.
Toilet Blues. That's his song.
Hey,
I just thought up a comparable for Schremp, a player he'd be well advised to model his game on…and given his personality it wouldn't be that much of a stretch. Terry Ruskowski. Rosco had potty mouth, was really bright, preferred the pass to the shot, and generally hated coaches on sight (ironically becoming a pretty good one himself). He marched to his own beat.
Schremp could have a long career as an agitator. He could make the Oilers by meeting one of Tambo's goals. Schremp could make us tougher to play against. He'd just use his mouth and bad attitude rather than his talent. Who knows he might be a ten goal forty assist bad ass, like Ruskowski in his early career.
He's more Ron Chipperfield than Terry Ruskowski.
Lets bring Esa Tikkanen back…!
The position of power play specialist at forward does NOT exist in the NHL.
The only forwards who get to play on the power play of good teams are EV outscorers.
A coach will lose his team if he takes away power play time from the forwards who produce at even strength.
In simple terms, Robbie Schremp is a coach killer and a team destroyer.
Mountain (Schremp hype) meet molehile (Schremp talent)……who cares about this guy.
It's a lie, you don't have to be an outscorer, simply a scorer, you can have a terrible +- and still be on the powerplay.
At worst he can be a Shootout specialist, kind of like Jeff Hamilton.
Sweet! Shawn Horcoff can play an extra five minutes a game so Rob Schremp can get away with refusing to backcheck. Awesome!
is fpb the Dan Man..?
just asking.
See? My solution is perfect! You just need to get a tool like Jacque or Macintyre out of the lineup.
i'll take that as a yes.
I mentioned it the other day LT, but I'm seriously loving the debates with the random italicized voice. There just really good writing.
I'm ready to be corrected but I'm pretty sure you've got the reason for the demotion wrong. Not you personally, but the story that seems to have taken hold is that Robbie had the two good games and had bad ones against San Jose and Florida and MacT cut bait. In short, Rob's demotion was about performance.
The pro-Schremp guys call that an unjustified slight. The anti-Schremp guys say that he was so bad versus San Jose he deserved the demotion.
I watched those games and checked the records recently and that's not the way I remember things going down. Here's what i remember:
-Robert Nilsson got injured against Dallas on October 30th
-Rob Schremp was called up specifically to replace Nilsson for Dallas on Dec 3. He played well.
-Schremp was first star against LA two nights later but sucked against San Jose and Florida
-Nilsson got healthy in time for a game against Vancouver and played
-Schremp, who had been an injury callup got (duh) sent down when the injury was done. With accolades as I recall.
I post this because I feel its an important fact and completely dispels the "MacTavish treated Schremp badly crowd". Robert Nilsson at that point was an established 2nd liner with a shiny new contract on a team that was in playoff position. His job was NOT on the line. Schremp's demotion was about opportunity or lack thereof.
The issue was and always will be the way Schremp handled the demotion. If he did the point a game thing with Springfield for the next few weeks he might have been there when Nilsson fell of the proverbial cliff.
FPB:
DantheMan's comments generally ran against the generally accepted wisdom here in Lowtide's comment section.
Nope, i'm not that guy. BTW, how is it such a bad idea to put Shremp as a Shootout Specialist?
General Wisdom, well hmmm. Yes well i can say i agree on most of his posts. Just that sometimes, i can't feel his (and the one of most comment poster) conservatism toward old veterans and young guns. Rare will be the suggestions to take a gamble on guys, suggesting more to play it safe, but in my opinion, i don't know if the Oilers can afford not to gamble. I can hardly see a competitive Oilers team, wihtout a Burst of either Nilsson/Shremp/Pouliot/Brulé. And all these guys are projected Minor Roles or no role at all.
FpavelB: They can't take chances on any more kids because most of the roster is already too young.
Knighttown, this is the first I've heard this particular interpretation of Schremp's few games in the show. If he got all pissy at being sent back after being an injury callup, then he might actually be too stupid for hockey. Could that be a consideration?
You speak the truth. But, even there, unless O'sullivan is a perfect fit for Hemmers. Well, i just can't see Pisani on a 2nd line, i just can't. Never reached the 40 point plateau, i just can't see why you could consider yourself a top notch team with a 35points guy on your top 6.
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=33403
BTW looking at the Oilers Depth Chart on the site, it's pretty interesting, would it be indicative or something, or it's just raffle baffle?.
I think O'sullivan could be gold with Nilsson and Gagner, He shoots a lot, so Nilsson could find a sniper to whom fire his passes. He's also has better hands than Cogliano (IMO)
I just want to throw this out there.
This team has no traditional four-line, right? Our choices are between a couple of bad options who can't keep their heads above water at even strength.
So if the Oilers ran, say, Nilsson – Pouliot – Schremp, gave them minutes so soft you could make pillows out of them, run Schremp and occasionally Nilsson on the powerplay and occasionally Pouliot on the penalty kill, is that not better than having Reddox or Stortini also getting killed at evens but without the special teams advantage?
Is it just me or does that make sense?
Knightown's interpretation was bang on.
Lord Bob: How many soft lines are they going to have? Two?
This team is short on NHL outscorers no matter how you slice it. The difference is how you want to be outscored. You can run out a team of guys in the Stortini/Reddox/MacIntyre mould who'll get curbstomped at evens, or you can run out Schremp and Nilsson who'll get curbstomped at evens but chip in on special teams.
This team has no third option. The depth just isn't there.
Horcoff-Penner-Hemsky (toughs)
Pouliot-Moreau-Pisani (2nd tough)
Gagner-O'Sullivan-Cogliano (3rd)
Brule-Jacques-Stortini (soft)
Nilsson off man out here.
Bob got it. That's what i wanted to say with the Gamble thing, that there's really no other valid option. Edmonton isn't Montreal. It isn't between three youngsters like Sergei Kostitsyn, Guillaume Latendresse and Max Pacioretty, for the 2nd line spot. It's Nilsson/Shremp/Pouliot for 2nd,3rd and 4th line or Pisani/Moreau/Stortini/Macintyre
Etc. The 2nd option could be more viable this year, but included no potential increase in value what so ever.
With respect, you're not making sense. Moreau and Pisani may have flaws and injury history but if healthy they're playing ahead of Schremp.
This is not an opinion, this is a fact.
How much better is Jacques – Brule – Stortini than Nilsson – Brule – Schremp, LT? Really.
Yes, the former line is a more "traditional" fourth line, but screw tradition. Nilsson is the only one of those six who's ever dreamed of being an above-replacement NHL player, and it's not like Derek Boogaard is going to outscore Rob Schremp into the stone age just because Schremp is too soft and fluffy to be an old-school fourth liner.
Plus, neither Jacques nor Stortini contributes on special teams. In fact, I doubt Jacques contributes to anything but the team pizza budget.
Well I'll leave you guys to discuss it, but would like to say that we're officially off the rails. If you don't understand the importance of Pisani on this team there's not much I can say to you.
K Maybe Shremp, what about Pouliot and Nilsson, Nilsson already beat Pisani's best season point wise, and Pouliot looks like Moreau, only younger, sure he will make errors that a veteran won't but, it's the price to pay to have a better tomorrow.
And for Shremp, i don't know, i don't think he really gives a fuck about the AHL, and his motivation level must be pretty damn low. Maybe some time in the bigs and on the PP at the point would light up a spark?
I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to pan Pisani here. Pisani is awesome. I want to babysit Pisani's children. He's the only defensive forward on this team I even remotely trust.
I never ditched Pisani also, i just can't put that on a 2nd line, he's perfect for the third line.
How disastrous would be this?
Hemsky-Horcoff-O'sullivan (Scoring)
Nilsson-Gagner-Cogliano (Scoring 2)
Penner-Pouliot-Pisani (Tough)
Moreau-Brulé-Stortini (Soft
Shremp and Jaques in the stands
Shremp jumps in vs Softer teams, Jacques is Moreau or Stortini blowing a tire.
The D is figured out, Strudwick in the press box.
What would be so wrong with that lineup? No Macintyre?
To the Rob Schremp fan club: teams don't hand out NHL minutes to guys because they're bored of the AHL. Period.
I'm not sure I could call this "the Rob Schremp fan club" as the "well, this team is really awful and at least Schremp can do something other than get taken wide by Curtis Glencross club".
NHL teams, also usually call theyr first round picks, when they score a PPG in the AHL while the pro team is struggling to score.
They did exeption there, i don't see why they shouldn't do another (Of course it's not gonna be because it's bored, it's to try something out. If he has good camp, it's sure better than Macintyre)
LB: That comment was aimed more at Bure than you, and more at the 'Schremp just needs a chance' mentality as a whole than Bure in particular.
This bears an explicit statement, since I don't think I've spelled it out yet.
If this were the Detroit Red Wings, Rob Schremp would belong in the minors.
Shit, if this were the Columbus Blue Jackets, Rob Schremp would belong in the minors.
But this is a bad team short on players, and Rob Schremp is a less bad option than Jacques, Macintyre, Reddox, or Stortini.
FPB:
IT's all well and good to say that, but of the tiny forwards who can't play defense, who should Schremp have replaced in 2007-08? Gagner? Cogliano? Nilsson?
He came into camp out of shape and coming offi njury, lost the spot he probably would have got, and then never got another chance because those three were playing lights out.
LB: Andy Hilbert remains homeless.
Jonathan: Check out my roster, Shremp is in the press box, and the only spot is he stealing is Macintyre's. More AHL time won't do any more good, and Macintyre is as useless as you can be. I don't see how this could hurt, unless you wanna make a spot for Jordan or Magnus.
"Mr. Smith, I can see that you are clearly no longer motivated in your current position. The expectations we have made for you have not been met and we are seeing very little progress in your work ethic and your personal job skills.
With that being said, we are putting you on the most prolific project we have at the company as it's new Marketing Manager in an effort to reignite your passion for the business and help our struggling marketing team. There are several more qualified candidates for the position available but we really believe you can turn this ship around.
Here's the keys to your new corner office and to the management washroom usptairs. Congratulations."
Oh, god, I'd love to see Hilbert (and Malhotra) in copper and blue. Put them with Brule and that's just fine by me.
I don't think Tambs has the wit to sign either one, though, and for now I'm working with what we've got.
Raise your lighters everyone and sing together
All we are saaaaying, is give Schremp a chaaaaancce. All we are saaaying, is give Schremp a chaaaanccce..
Off topic, but here is a lineup of guys who are still UFA's and will all sign for less then $2 mill.
Comrie-Sundin-Zherdev
Afiniganov-Lang-Satan
Neidermeyer-Malhotra-Calder
Hilbert-Peca-Moore
Sykora-May
Seidenberg-Boucher
Gauthier-M.A. Bergeron
Bouillon-Devries
Kaberle
Fernandes
Legace
i wonder if we beat that team in a 7 game series? Hell of a year to be an expansion franchise. You can sign that team today for around $40 million.
And thought this will change with resignings this year, here is the lineup for the 2010 UFA's. Balsillie should just apply for an expansion franchise, pay the league the $250 million they want, and sign a team of vets and young stars looking for a payday.
Wow look at his UFA list for 2010/11.
c: Marleau,Jokinen, Savard, Vermette, Plekanec, Stajan, Lombardi
W: Kovalchuk, Hejduk, Frolov, Tanguay, C. Armstrong, kariya, Demitra, whitney, Wellwood, Higgins, Grier, Tootoo, Artyukhin
D: Martin, Hamhuis, Volchenkov, Klesla, kubina, Gonchar, Mitchell, Morris, Corvo, Boynton, lilja
G: Luongo, turco, Nabokov, Toskala, ellis, Biron, emery, theodore
There is alot of talent, and a bunch of the UFA's today will only sign for a year. you could have 2 solid expansion teams from that list. It behooves good GM's to clear cap sapce for next year in order to pick up good players that are looking for homes (look at what hapened this year and next year will be even bigger)
Buchy is right about his passing.. it's pretty top notch. Too bad the rest of his game isn't at the same level, however.
MacIntyre SMASH!!
DBO – yeah but every year a ton of talent looks to come up and every year nearly everyone stays put, I would bet that the majority of those guys do as well
JW:
I know you've been covering the NHLPA angle a little more closely than LT. I'm not set up on ON or Copper and Blue. You might want to have a peek at the article in allnovascotia.com, an online news source for businessmen in and around Halifax. The Pink family are local legends and for underdog Halifax, seeing a Nova Scotia boy become NHLPA president is extremely exciting even if he's sold his soul to the devil to do so.
The source is a close personal friend and courtroom rival Peter McLellan.
Pink feels strongly that the PA should be much more "union-y" than employee/employer.
http://www.allnovascotia.com/index.php
I'm not sure if you'll get in cause its a pay-site.
Lord Bob… do you really think Schremp is a better option than Reddox at this point in time (for what this team needs)?
I don't. Schremp has more offense (clearly), but he also gives up far more.
And if you listen to anyone who thinks he has a shot… he needs to play with skilled players to show what he can do. There's no room on the roster for that kind of player.
I don't. Schremp has more offense (clearly)…
Really?
2008-2009 (AHL)
Reddox: 0.643 PPG
Schremp: 0.609 PPG
It's not a large sample size in Reddox's case, but note also that he was facing far tougher opposition than Schremp was. Probably Schremp would be better than Reddox on the powerplay, but are our special teams so bad that we need to turn to our fourth liners for our power play units?
To qualify for significant NHL power play time, Schremp doesn't just have to be better than Reddox on the powerplay, he has to be better than at least two of Horcoff, Hemsky, Penner, O'Sullivan, Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson. Moreover, he has to be enough better than two of them to justify his ES drag. I can't see it.
Maybe if our backliners would take care of business in their own end we wouldn't need small skilled forwards to focus on defense as much…
Maybe all Rob needs is some results (I.e goals and assists) with the big club and all those concerns would go away…
Maybe all Rob needs is some results (I.e goals and assists) with the big club and all those concerns would go away…
Probably. But concerns about Geoff Paukovich would also go away if he scored goals and assists with the big club, but that doesn't mean that we should call him up.
Off topic: It looks like Gator has retired in Ottawa. He was a heck of a captain here for a number of years. He fell off a cliff recently, but players of his ilk are sorely missed around here.
If only our defense didn't suck so much, Rob Schremp could sit on the opposite blue line with his stick in the air!
Oh, Tom Gilbert, you dick.
Rob Schremp hockey! Fat and useless except on the PP about twenty feet from the opposition net.
Seriously, Rick? The small skilled forwards needn't play any defence?
What would you have them do when the puck is in the Oilers' end?
The waste of words written about this guy is incredible. He has had one good AHL season in three years. And we're to believe that he's a valid option to play in the NHL?
BDHS: I don't agree on the 1 good season in 3 years. He had a very solid season as a 20 year in Wilkes-Barre and followed that up with a very good season as a 21 year old.
He was terrible last year after getting sent down, absolutely horrible (and he has no place on the current Oilers roster), but I don't think it is fair to say only 1 good season.
He has had 3 very good years, 1 solid year and 1 god awful year in the last 5.
Great post and series, LT, and great discussion. Regarding MacT's tirade towards Schremp, my thought has always been that MacT was reacting to repeated questions from the press regarding his choices for call-up, having passed over Schremp once more(I don't recall with whom, Reddox?). He was pointing out his position, to justify it to the press, in order to stifle the question, and wee Robbie took it all about Robbie, calling it unprofessional. I don't think it was an attack by MacT as much as professional decision context. My hope is that wee Robbie has learned some professionalism this summer, but indications are otherwise. We'll see.
I am worried – a post on Robbie Shremp is struggling to get to 100 comments. Where are the 200+ comments that is the norm?
Ok, LT, looks the the bloom is off of this one, who is our next lighting rod flower?
On another note – Jason Smith retired today freeing 2.6 million in cap space for Ottawa.
I'm going to go with Linus Omark as the Swedish Hockey Jesus, even though I think he 'gets it' way more than Schremp does and has a good shot to be a NHL player some day.
Also that sucks about Smith, I wonder if he has a season or two left in the tank. Seems odd that he'd retire now when he seems reasonably healthy and is slated for another 2.6 million year.
Luongo at 12 years for a total of 64 million.
Looks like he's not going anywhere anytime soon, both literally and maybe figuratively.
Smytty77 – he was a healthy scratch a number of times his first pro season
I wouldn't call that a great success really.
With Schremp its always been the same story. Questions about his skating. Questions about his level of compete. Questions about his play away from the puck.
These things matter or he would be in the NHL now. What matters to clubs is winning. If Schremp could help the Oilers win then he would be with them now.
He's had some bad luck. No spots open in 2006. Coming off an injury in 2007, fat and suddenly passed by Gagner, Cogliano and Nilsson.
But by his own admission he didn't properly prepare for last year's camp.
Hopefully the light has gone on. I hope the guy succeeds. As an Oilers' fan its in my best interest.
I guess we'll see. Essentially all of his supporters are saying that this has been MacT's fault. I have a feeling that Pat Quinn won't put up with fat and lazy. He didn't when he had Kyle Wellwood on his club, iirc.
Bucky liking Schremp's vision is the funniest part of a very funny entry, LT.
Bring Gator back! to Coach that is.
Perhaps a visit to Mr. Bonsignore would help clear Schremp's "vision" of what it takes to earn an NHL career.
Jesus, Jason Smith retired?
I feel old.
Vancouver needs cheap options on the quick. Send them Schremp, Brule, Pouliot, Smid, I don't care who.
Just go get Cory Schneider right fucking now.
The waste of words written about this guy is incredible. He has had one good AHL season in three years. And we're to believe that he's a valid option to play in the NHL?
well said sir!
We had two 17 year olds and an 18 year old be more productive, in nhl terms, in more challenging pro leagues.
So much energy for a player who's inflated PP junior numbers still only said a maximum 50 Pt. player.
Off-topic – you don't mind, do you??
Maybe somebody understands the Phoenix math, so help me out here.
Balsillie's bid is 212M, from which former owner Moyes is said to recoup 100M or so that he "loaned" to his outfit. Leaving 100M+ for creditors-not-named-Moyes
The NHL bid leaves Moyes dry, which means all 140M or so is in play for the real creditors.
What's the 'higher bid'?
Smytty,
It's a stretch to say that he was very good in his first two years in the AHL. He put up decent offense, mostly on the power play, and little else.
Over those two years, he scored at a 0.27/game rate, that's 22 goals in an 82 game season. That's good, but not very good. And he's gotten 0.87 points per game, that's 71 points in an 82 game schedule.
I know that sounds like Hemsky territory, but keep thinking. Those decent numbers are against weak AHL comp., and are inflated by the PP and he got outscored while getting those points.
Over those two seasons he was -15 over those two seasons. (He posted a +/- of 0 on a Wilkes Bar team that was a combined +55) So he's hardly outplaying the competition.
And according to common sense and the AHL 'Willis Style' qual.comp numbers we have, we know that Schremp plays the AHL soft parade, so we know he can't even outscore poor AHL competition.
Those are hardly look like 'very good' seasons and we haven't even broached the subject of how much of his offense came on the PP.
Of Schremp's 40 goals in his first two seasons, 23, i.e. over half of them, came on the powerplay. (Neither Horcoff nor Hemsky have that much of their offense coming on the PP, BTW.)
I'm no Schremper, but I do want to clarify something.
There's been a lot of talk since the HF interview that Schremp came into camp fat and out-of-shape.
That does not seem to be the case from the interview, so I'm wondering why posters here keep making that comment.
"You know, last year I went out and saw Chad Morrow and I got all the weightlifting down, but I didn't have a good diet. I came in to camp… [pausing] I wasn't fat at camp [pause]. I didn't come in… I didn't get the best results that I could if I had been on track with everything."
Schremp talked about working out the same as everyone else, but not dieting as strictly. What he was saying was that he did not come into camp in the best shape possible, which is a whole lot different than saying he went into camp fat and out-of-shape.
I'm not saying that's a smart move by him, and perhaps indicates either his work ethic or level of stubborness/narcissism, but I do think it is unfair for us to continue to exaggerate the downside of Robbie to the same degree his fans exaggerate the up.
LT, this amount to being an epic comment stream. I laughed, I cried (well I laughed so hard that tears came to my eyes), so I tip my hat to all these great comment posters.
LT
"Horcoff-Penner-Hemsky (toughs)
Pouliot-Moreau-Pisani (2nd tough)
Gagner-O'Sullivan-Cogliano (3rd)
Brule-Jacques-Stortini (soft)
Nilsson off man out here."
YIKES…are we really going to be that bad? We've got a #1 line that will barely outscore their competition, a "2nd tough" that has one quality guy on it (Fernando), A third line that will constantly lose the puck and a 4th line that…well I'm not sure what they're going to do with a puck entered into the equation.
I'm really really REALLY hoping there are some moves coming this week as rumored.
Ribs: Mr Smith's archives message: 2007-2008
I'm sorry Mr Smith, even if you are the most qualified at the moment, and are in need of workers like you, we will take unqualified unfitting guys at your place Sorry. I know we hired you especially for this job, but finally we'll with the less skilled employees. Have a nice day.
Kris: My point is that he has met reasonable expectations for a 25th overall pick for 4 years until last year. You would expect a 25th pick to eventually be a good AHL, fringe NHL player, that's about where he was/possibly still is lining up.
'Schremp sucks' has been done to death on here and elsewhere, mostly in response to the 'Schremp is Hockey Jesus' crowd. He doesn't suck and he's not Jesus. He's a 23 year old prospect that might crack an NHL roster some day, which is about what you would expect from a 25th overall pick.
Smytty,
Fair enough, and I don't mean to nitpick at your words. But you claimed he had multiple 'very good seasons' not that he had met the expectations concordant with being a 25th overall pick. You're quite right that many late first rounders do even worse than Schremp, though many do better too.
But just to reiterate: a player, first round pick or otherwise, has a 'very good' season in the AHL if he outplayed average-tough AHL competition.
And in his first 3 seasons Schremp has been consistently outplayed, apparently, by below average AHL competition. Indeed, I would've said say he's had 'very poor' seasons, except he has shown that he can produce on the PP, and occasionally produces, though inconsistently, at ES against weak opposition. That's better than terrible, but it's cleary not 'very good.'
On the other hand, guys who were picked later in the draft like Potulny and Reddox have had some very good seasons in the AHL. Thus they do deserve a chance to get playing time in the NHL, more than Schremp. (We agree on that, right?)
And I don't see why there should be any special 'expectations for a 25th overall pick' as opposed to any guy we send to the AHL. Guys like Reddox, Minard, and Potulny do outplay tough AHL competition, and they get no fanfare about deserving a chance in the NHL.
Moreover, I really don't think Schremp's being a first round pick warrants him any special consideration. He might has well have been a second rounder, or a late round pick, like Rajala, with slick hands or some special skill but lot's of holes in his game.
Yes i agree too, Potulny deserves a shot, Reddox did medium, but i would keep him over Jacques.
Just send Jaques and Macintyre to the minors. Potulny Reddox and Shremp in the bigs, keep stortini for special occasions.
Doesnt sound that bad heh?
Kris: I'm not sure how you are not nitpicking words, you asked what I meant by very good and I told you what it meant to me, meeting expectations concordant with his draft position.
To clarify given my expectations for him as a 25th overall pick, I consider 90 points as an 18 year a very good season. I consider 145 points as a 19 year old a very good season. I consider 53 points in 69 games as a rookie in the AHL a solid season and I consider finishing 7th in the AHL in scoring as a 21 year old a very good season.
Whether Schremp has a 'good season' or not rests entirely on what a person's expectations are.
What people don't understand is Schremp is a lot more like one of those old time baseball players in the 1920's who could show up at a training camp and literally blow their way into the team.
He's got a wild and untamed spirit. What could be worse for a player like that, than Mactavish's jail house atmosphere?
I'm serious. Nice to be away from a computer for a few days.
Yeah. He's Ty fucking Cobb. Jesus, people.
Kris: I should note that I don't disagree with anything you've written about Schremp. He has huge flaws in his game and that has been well documented.
I disagree about what the reasonable expectation for him should have been. To me he met expectations for quite awhile before falling down an elevator shaft last year.
Smytty,
Okay, it's good we agree on what Schremp is now.
But I was really interested by what you said about expectations. Indeed, I'm not sure what reasonable expectations for a pick at about 25th overall should be. So I looked.
Last night I went through and looked at all the players selected from 1995-2004 who were taken with the 24th,25th, or 26th pick. (That's 30 players) I then looked at how they performed in their first few years of pro hockey. Schremp fairs okay, but not as well as I had thought he would.
I put an X by each player who I think did as well or worse than Schremp, i.e. you only get an X if you aren't playing in the NHL or dominating the AHL by the time you're 23-24. This was tough in the cases of goalies and D-men, but I did my best. (Let me know if you think I should add some X's to the list.)
2004: Chucko(X), Schremp, Schneider
2003: Mike Richards, Anthony Stewart(X), Brian Boyle (X)
2002: Steen, Ward, Vagner (X?)
2001: Krajicek, Perzgohin (X), Bacashihua (X)
2000: Brad Boyes, Steve Ott, Brian Sutherby (X)
1999: Cereda(X), Kuleshov(X), Havlat
1998: Christian Backman(X), Van Ryn, Jiri Fischer
1997: JF Damphousse(X), Brenden Morrow, Kevin Grimes (X)
1996: Briere, Peter Ratchuk (X), Jesse Wallin (X)
1995: Marc Denis, Alexey Morozov, Maxim Kuznetsov (X)
Out of those 30 picks, there 14 who had better careers as young players, and there are a few stars in their too. In fact, I would count only the seasons that Briere, Morrow, Havlat, Boyes, and Richards had as 'very good.'
(Interestingly, 5 star players out of 30 means between 17 per cent of picks in that range become stars.)
So again, I wouldn't say that given how 25th overall picks have performed in the AHL and NHL that Schremp has had 'very good seasons.' He's had a bunch of seasons that are pretty average for a 25th overall pick.
But you're free to define very good as you please.