Promise

I was at the game tonight, interesting to read the comments below and compare them to my own opinion from the night’s events. It was a tough loss, but here are some observations:

  • None of the skills forwards (to my eye) looked like they had their “A” game tonight. Hemmer scored a goal and maybe that’s a sign and the others had moments but none of them were consistently dangerous.
  • I thought Khabibulin was outstanding tonight. Three deflections, a ton of stellar saves and he really battled. No hell in the SO but a solid game for the veteran.
  • Flames are a better hockey club and one of the reasons is they have more actual players.
  • Ryan Stone pissed off the Flames something fierce.
  • The breakouts are getting better and seem to be under more control.
  • Visnovsky is a beauty player.
  • Grebeshkov sure does a lot of things right.
  • I don’t like the idea of the Gagner-Moreau-Stortini line but they had a cycling shift worthy of the Sedins tonight. Some nice things.
  • Oilers are owed a couple of points from the hockey Gods but I can’t get too upset about tonight. They’re a better team than they were a year ago, compete physically in a way I don’t recall and have enough skill to carry the day most nights.
  • This team has some promise.
  • The only sequence I was really unhappy about was the Hemsky possible EN goal (he needs to figure a way to get at least a chance to score) and the inability of veteran forwards to kill off 36 seconds when they have the puck 20 miles from their own net.
  • Quinn’s post game is coming right up on the Oilers site. Bet he has some interesting comments.

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101 Responses to "Promise"

  1. Schitzo says:

    I just walked in the door 30 seconds ago and I have to ask this:

    If you ice the puck with the goalie pulled, can you put the goalie back in the net for the faceoff? I was sure the Flames would be taking that faceoff with 6 skaters.

  2. Scott Reynolds says:

    If you ice the puck with the goalie pulled, can you put the goalie back in the net for the faceoff? I was sure the Flames would be taking that faceoff with 6 skaters.

    This seems like an excellent question. No one seemed to complain that Kipper went back so I assume it's allowed, but I'd like to see the actual rule.

    As for the press conference Quinn really lit into Moreau without saying "Moreau."

  3. Icecastles says:

    LOVING Quinn's comments about how he'd have dealt with Iginla's hit in the old days. "They honoured him with a fistfight – you don't honourably respond to a dishonorable play" and "Somebody would be hitting him over the head with a stick then every guy on the ice would be piling on him and hitting him with their onion belts." (paraphrasing)

  4. PunjabiOil says:

    It's too bad Ethan Moreau is literally just a dumb hockey player. His tools (speed, grit) are the epitome of an elite third liner, but the problem is that he's simply dumb.

    Another game, another offensive zone penalty. 30 seconds left and he turns the puck over in a blind pass to nobody in particular. None of that dump the puck in the corner, or cycle the puck to Penner. Just a dumb hockey player, and I suspect that won't change.

  5. PunjabiOil says:

    Dany Heatley tonight:

    3 goals, 1 assist, 4 points, +6 and 6 shots on goal.

    Sigh.

  6. pboy says:

    "Somebody would be hitting him over the head with a stick then every guy on the ice would be piling on him and hitting him with their onion belts." (paraphrasing)

    lol

    I assume the Oilers will be sending a video of the Iginla penalty to the head offices to see if a suspension is warranted. Regardless if it was an accident or not, he took Souray's skate out from under him and then he rode the guy from behind into the boards in a pretty dangerous play. I think that should see at least 1 game but I won't be holding my breath.

  7. PunjabiOil says:

    I do agree with LT though – this team is looking good early on in the season. More efforts like this one (as opposed to Tuesday) and the Oilers will be in good shape.

    They should be able to beat both Montreal and Nashville this [long] weekend.

  8. DBO says:

    Was also at the game.
    - hemsky was invisible all night except for the goal.
    - Stone is on this team for hits like the one in the 2nd where he broke the stralman's stick and knocked him silly.
    - Strudwick was my favorite player tonight. he had like 4 hits in his first shift and made the right play every time. More like this and Staios is in trouble.
    - Moreau brings a lot to this team, but he still is dumb as a puck most times. He was the one who threw the puck to the front of the net with 25 seconds when we are trying to kill the clock. Calgary gets possession and game tied.
    - i love Quinn's comments. he said a few key things:
    -never throw the puck to the net when you are killing the clock. put it in the saf spot (directed at Moreau).
    - Empty nets must be hit, not dangle and lose the puck (Horcoff and Hemsky)

  9. quain says:

    Dany Heatley tonight:

    3 goals, 1 assist, 4 points, +6 and 6 shots on goal.

    Sigh.

    Ryan Smyth with 2 goals, 1 assist +2 3 SOG. Wish we could get a player like that.

  10. Schitzo says:

    To answer my own question, yes you can put a goaltender back in. Bah.

  11. Dennis says:

    I guess I am going to have to start listening to Quinn's presser's – I always made a point to listen to MacT's but I haven't yet listened to anything from Quinn – because it sounds like the guy talks straight and makes a lot of sense.

  12. PunjabiOil says:

    I agree with LT re: Khabibulin.

    Most of his goals allowed, as Vic Ferrari puts it, pure dumb luck. Unless we're playing against Ryan Smyth's Kings every night, that type of luck will not continue.

  13. John says:

    Really like the way the Oil competed tonight but when we took draw in Flames end I thought………. what a tremendously peculiar lineup….Horcoff, Penner, Moreau, Strudwick and …… sorry missed 2nd D. Then thought …….lineup selected because if we get possession in their end….we will freeze puck in corner or along the wall and eat up real time

    Clearly the coaches forgot to tell Moreau. Just once I would appreciate him making the play of a 4th line winger…safe, smart, low risk

    27 seconds left he is on right wall amd thinks "I will throw puck into high slot." If it works: 4 to 2 Oil….. if it doesn't the Flames gain our zone and get clear chance at our goal

    WOW guess the kid, lacking experience, just panicked. Nope, agree with PJO…….he is so stupid it hurts… I sure hope we don't need that 1 point in April

  14. oilersfan says:

    test

  15. PDO says:

    DBO:

    Hemsky wasn't invisible…

    … he was turning the puck over in the neutral zone the entire game.

    His game has left a LOT to be desired, and I'm not liking the way Quinn is running the bench on the PP… we have some horses there, ride them please.

    Horcoff was a lot better tonight, but it's hard to generate offense when the guy on your line that carries it through the neutral zone keeps turning it over.

    Lubo is back. Helluva goal, and he was making deft plays the entire tonight. He looked fantastic.

    I didn't think what Iginla did was dirty… just really fucking dumb.

    Grebeshkov and Gilbert both had very good games, and I liked what I saw from Smid as well.

    Strudwick looked better tonight than Staios has at any point this season. Ugh.

    Really hope that Souray isn't rushed. It's a concussion, give him at least a week…

    Gagner was quieter, though he had his chances, Moreau was typical Moreau – took a dumb penalty and fell down three seconds into his fight. Stortini did his job, as did Stone, Sully had a nice night, and Jacques looked more controlled.

    There are some nice things on this team, but it'd sure be nice if we had a few more real NHL'ers like Bourque, Glencross and Conroy instead of Jacques, Stone and Brule..

  16. Racki says:

    Agreed with all your observations LT… and boy, did Quinn ever have some interesting stuff to say. Very pissed at Iginla. Very pissed at the guys on the ice during the last goal. Very pissed at Hemsky (not specifically said though) not doing enough to get an empty net goal.

  17. PDO says:

    Oh, Khabibulin was very good, though I have no idea what he was doing on that last goal, and the Jokinen goal is plain obnoxious.

  18. oilersfan says:

    Lowetide

    I was curious to know which current Oilers you do not consider NHL players and which Flames players you do??

    Really, the Oilers have one rookie, Ryan Stone, who is 24 and has played 3 full seasons in the AHL. Is Brandon Prust a much better player?? Or how about Pardy? Or Kronwall? Despite the two goals Nystrom got last game, he has never had 15 points in two seasons. How about the multitude of Flames who are playing on their second and third line who were unable to get a point per game in NCAA or the AHL? Or barely even in the WHL (Boyd, Moss, Glencross, Nystrom, Bourque) . Their pedigree is so bad I doubt any of them other than Bourque would make the top 9 on the Oilers.

    As for the d, neither Pardy nor Kronwall would make the Oil.

    They have 3 really good dmen (Bou looks like Pronger jr to me damn I wish the Oil tried harder to get him), 2 excellent forwards, 3 legitimate 3rd liners and a rag tag of borderline NHL players filling in 4-5 spots.

  19. Racki says:

    I also agree with a couple people on the Horcoff/Hemsky stuff… what an oddity… as big as a Horcoff fan as I am, I would say the play frequently dies on his stick. Not tonight.. Hemsky's stick was laced with poison, and not in a good way. He couldn't do a damn thing with it. Even on his goal, that was mostly from the play of Jacques and Horcoff that this goal happened. Hemsky just had to take out the garbage.

  20. Racki says:

    PDO: The last goal as in Jokinen's shootout goal?? He had it all the way and almost had a spectacular save.. Jokinen bounced it off the side of the net, which of course curves favorably inward, allowing it to deflect back out front, off Khabi and in. That goal was almost perfectly played by Khabi… almost..

  21. oilersfan says:

    look at the pedigree of our young players playing in the third and fourth line. These are young men in their third NHL seasons that are already better than the misfits on the Flames fourth line. Gagner and Brule were top 10 draft picks and are good players now, possibly future stars. Freaking Nigel Dawes was picked up on waivers, for all the flukey points Bourque gets the guy was a late round draft pick who could not get .8 points per game in NCAA. He is not that good and time will show the hockey gods are evening machines.

    The Oil won their first 4 games last year despite being outplayed then went .500 the rest of the year. This flames team is not that good and i think are half the team the Canucks are. I bet they miss the playoffs…

  22. PDO says:

    Racki:

    Obnoxious as in unbelievably unlucky.

  23. Racki says:

    PDO: Oh, I thought you were saying you "had no idea what he (Khabi) was doing" on the shootout goal, meaning he didn't look good. But I presume that was directed at the game tying goal, and the shootout goal was a separate thought.

  24. PDO says:

    Yeah, not quite sure what he was doing on the GTG.

    The Jokinen goal was plain obnoxious and unbelievably unlucky.

    Anyone know any virgins that can be sacrificed to the hockey gods?

    … maybe Liam Reddox is useful after all… :-)

  25. John says:

    To extent anyone thinks Bulin was the problem….disagree. I thought he was excellent throughout the game tonight

  26. PunjabiOil says:

    Yeah, not quite sure what he was doing on the GTG.

    The wrist shot was high. Borque deflected it near shoulder level and it changed direction quickly.

    One could reasonably argue that Khabibulin could have saved a few of the deflections thus far in the year – but at this point, I'm not really concerned.

    It would be nice if Gagner is removed from the shootout. He's still living off his success in 2007/2008, and he's been shooting at a very low rate ever since.

    Pouliot when he gets back.

  27. Racki says:

    Agreed, John… Khabibulin looked really good tonight. 3 goals in regulation, all 3 were tip-ins.

    In the shootout, the Dawes goal wasn't what I would call spectacular, however the same shot beat Kipper too. He sprawled out and nearly robbed Jokinen with a spectacular save.. unfortunately not quite. Lucky bounce off the side of the net on that one.

  28. Racki says:

    Punjabi: Definitely not mastery, but 3/8 last year isn't THAT bad.. still puts him above Hemsky, even.

  29. PDO says:

    Was Bourque's goal a high stick…?

  30. Gord says:

    Out of all defensemen in the league, Grebeshkov is tied for 3rd in points per game (and leads all Oilers in points)…

    And Jan Hejda is tied for the league lead at +5…

    Absolutely no surprise to me….. ;-)

  31. Bill Needle says:

    I said to myself with 20 seconds to go: "Why is Strudwick out there in the final minute of a close game and the puck in the Edmonton zone?" 19 seconds later, the puck is in because he can't stand up at the blue line and lets the attacker get by him on the outside.

  32. NBOilerFan says:

    Wow… another tough, tough loss. I still cannot believe what happen in the dying seconds…. reminded me of the "panic" play of the Oiler in late in many games last year.

    I don't think Iginla's slew-foot on Souray was intentional, but I do agree that he should have had to pay a bit more dearly regardless. And I don't mean it had to be a fight, but Jacques, Stone or Stortini should have made a point to be looking for a big hit on Iginla or any other star on that team and made a statement.

    Great points LT, I do like the more physical forechecking play that Quinn is pursuing, just hope Stone, Jacques, Brule can keep it up over a sustained period.

    It's also very obvious that players have Hemsky figured out and the poke-check (and turnover) is becoming a far too regular occurrence. Hemsky needs to start dumping it in more often and use his speed to the outside to get the d-men to start backing up on those plays.

    I blame the PP in OT for the loss… I would almost guarantee that the Flames given that same opportunity would have found twine. Just like last year, far too often we failed to capitalize on a prime opportunity like that (or an empty net) and we paid dearly. The better teams make those opportunities count.

  33. Bar Qu says:

    I won't address the Hemsky thing other than to say that those of you who think he should be running around winning all the battles all the time forget the last few seasons where he is invisible some games and shows up periodically in others. Hemsky is not the problem.

    The problem, again, is that the Oil lost a 2 goal lead and then a one goal lead. This is what will lead to the team winning fewer than 40 games (35?) because they can't keep the puck out of the net. The fact that there was so many tip-ins on Khabi last night suggests that the defensive coverage is not as tight as needed, especially in front, and the point shots are getting through the defending forwards. Take the shot away, tie-up the stick of the man in front and those tip-ins don't happen and the game is won in the second period.

    BTW, Strudwick looked great last night and will probably be a very useful 30-40 game guy if he keeps it up.

    Oilersfan, those bottom 6'rs on the Flames? They are better than the Oilers bottom 6'rs not because they have better pedigree or scoring skills, but because they are low-event and tend to keep the play going the right way. They are on a scoring streak right now which means that Iginla and co. can play their game even when they are checked into the ice. That is why they are better NHL'rs.

  34. Phil says:

    Khabby was definitely better this game than the first two. That save he made coming across to rob Dawes twice (on the 5 on 3 I think) was nothing less than spectacular. I thought that early on, he was still giving up some rebounds, but even that started to deminish in the second and third.

    There is a lot to be excited about here over last year though. My biggest complaint was that right from the preseason on last year, the team did not have any fire or 'compete' in them, so win or lose, it was hard to cheer for. It's a lot easier to cheer for a team that is visibly trying on every shift. Good things will come once the puck-luck evens out a bit.

    And Ryan Stone – my new favourite player. If you stuck his grandma out there in a Flames jersey, he'd wallpaper her too.

    When Calgary tied this one up, I immdiately thought of the Colorado loss last year when Horc had a chance at the open net, missed, then Darcy MF Tucker scored with 30 seconds to go.

  35. Brett Gee 英 明 says:

    IS it all just luck with the bounces or would a few more defensive sound players knocking sticks and bodies away do well to help keep all of that tip in stuff to a minimum?

    Strudwick had no idea where the puck was while it went off him.

    How can the flames perfectly knock pucks out of thin air and into the net while we don't even know where it is? It can't just be luck.

  36. Lowetide says:

    Brett Gee: Well I think it's a lot about having actual NHL players. Sam Gagner is going to be a way better player than Curtis Glencross, but Glencross is effective because of his size, skill and experience. He doesn't let his mark go as easily, he does clog the lane, he is a piece of work in the corner.

    It's a bunch of little things, really. The Oilers have been training players then sending them away for years (Glencross as an example) and one hopes we don't see many of the current group shipped off.

    Daniel Cleary left the Oilers because Fernando Pisani ate his lunch, and we're watching a similar bet the team made with regard to Brodziak/Brule.

    But Curtis Glencross? Who thought it was a good idea to send him away? That's what I mean about actual NHL players btw.

    Oilers have too many youngsters on their way to being useful and not enough who are already there.

  37. Bar Qu says:

    Strudwick had no idea where the puck was while it went off him.

    That's because he was too busy tying up his guy and keeping him out of Khabi's face. Just one of a dozen plays last night that made him one of the best players on the team.

  38. NBOilerFan says:

    So Chorney will get the call I assume. Anyone know anything more on how Peckham is recovering since TC?

    (PS – Well said LT)

  39. mjsh says:

    I am much happier with this team at 1-1-1 than last years 4-0 team as well. This team competes. I loved JFJ's play on Hemsky's goal. Bulin looked outstanding last night. I think the hockey gods gave the Oil at least two of those 4 games last year and they will get some back later this year. How about 6th in the conference.

    If you are building a team for success, you take the high potential guys over the today solid guys any day.

    Cleary was an accident. No one wanted him at one time and he turned his life around when he hit bottom. (alcohol?) He would never have become the player he did if he stayed with the Oil. He needed the life changing events to turn things around.

  40. Dennis says:

    To bring it back to Quinn's presser, one of the neat things about having a new coach is that you automatically see a new hierarchy when it comes to TOI and responsibilites.

    If we saw Quinn criticize 18 on a night when he scored a goal and had two other scoring chances, then I think we've got a coach who'll see Moreau for what he really is. I saw Bling over in the GD thread talking about how he didn't think Moreau would repeat the same mistake he made in the O zone with under a minute left and holding a lead. I have to disagree with that because this is a guy that's been taking stupid penalties – and a lot of them seemingly 180 feet away from his own goalie – and at his age I doubt that will change.

    So, I think the gloves could be off for this guy and let's see what Quinn does the next time he's holding a lead in terms of personnel employed.

    Now, Quinn was also the guy that deemed a guy like Steve Sullivan waiver-fodder while he was the head coach of the Leaves and all the while held onto hopes for guys like Hoglund, Reichel, etc (I lived through this teams so I remember them well;))

    So, it's not like the guy is perfect or anything but there will be guys that fall by the wayside and there are guys that back to having to earn trust.

    I'm not really sure I have much of a gauge on this year's team's possible fortunes, though. As the man says, you still have too many guys cutting their teeth and that's gonna lead to poor and/or uneducated decisions and that leads to less scoring chances that you Might have earned and more scoring chances allowed than you Should be given up. And all those instances add up, obviously.

    On the positive front, Khabby can make the jaw-dropping saves and I'll chose to believe that 10/83 haven't been any great shakes in chances for/against because both are playing with nagging injuries (though that combo late last season, even when rounded out;) by 27, had an awful stretch where they were coming up a collective minus SC-wise every night). And there's also the fact that we've got some D depth to deal if we ever get around to it.

    The negatives are youth and those are big negatives.

  41. Bruce says:

    you still have too many guys cutting their teeth and that's gonna lead to poor and/or uneducated decisions

    You mean poor decisions like that dumb-ass centring pass in the dying seconds by that young fellow thecaptainethanmoreau? We used to teach that in peewee, ferfuxsakes. If it's late in the game and we have the lead, no centring passes, no cross-ice passes unless you're sure. Was Ethan gunning for the Gordie Howe hat trick?

    Instead he got thecaptainethanmoreauhattrick: the usual dumbass offensive zone penalty, yet another ridiculously bad fight, and a critical turnover on the decisive goal. Funny thing is, I thought it was one of his better games. :p

  42. Woodguy says:

    Bruce, agreed.

    Other ineffective players last night were: 19, 91, 83, 27 (was -3 and not that noticeable, not the best use of him wiht 67/13) and of course, idiotic mistakes by 18 (although he was effective at times) all Actual NHL Players. (ANP)

    22 and 32, who are not ANP, were two of the more effective players.

    I understand what LT is getting at, but the mistakes and ineffectual play is not limited to just young guys.

  43. Mr DeBakey says:

    Anyone know anything more on how Peckham is recovering since TC?

    From the Falcons' website:
    During the Providence game, Chris Minard scored his 100th career goal in his AHL career. Minard also notched his 400th career point as a professional with his goal on opening night.

    Goalie Devan Dubnyk played in his 100th career AHL game on opening night against the Pirates.

    On opening night, the Falcons received all three stars of the games. First star went to Liam Reddox, second star to Chris Minard, and third star went to goalie Devan Dubnyk.

    Getting their first points as Falcons this week were Chris Minard, Alex Plante, Captain Dean Arsene, and Chris Armstrong.

    Goalie Aaron Sorochan made his professional debut against the Bruins in the third period, relieving Devan Dubnyk, saving 11 of 12 shots on goal.

    Johan Motin played in his first professional game in North America against Portland this past Saturday as well.

    Injury Report:
    Falcons’ right wing Dylan Stanley and defenseman Theo Peckham missed both games due to injury.

    Transactions:
    Bryan Young and Riley Emmerson assigned to Stockton Thunder.

  44. R-Gib says:

    Bruce – love it;

    thecapitanethanmoreau hat trick

    That's gold. It's now ingrained into my everyday hockey vernacular.

    A couple of observations:
    - Lubo is finding his game quickly;
    - Agree w/ the Eskimo – There should have been a display of rough stuff after the Iginla triphit. I'm not saying whack him over the head with a stick, but someone sticking up for a fellow teammate would have been nice. Not sure who was on the ice at the time…
    - Horcoff looked better, but agree Hemsky is dragging that line down right now. Great heads up play by Horc on the 3-2 goal… it looked to me like he was positioning his shot deliberately for the rebound play, and waited for traffic.
    - Penner was invisible. Ran out of gas??
    - Smid looks good to my eye so far. I like him w/ Lubo and I'm quite happy to leave those two as the 2nd pair while Souray is gone. That does mean 24-43 as a third pair tho. Eeek.
    - Can we all agree that something needs to be done with El Capitano? His +s don't make up for his -s. Not even close most nights.

  45. Traktor says:

    Horcoff played 23:20 last night.

    Not that he played bad but that's not a recipe for success.

  46. Dennis says:

    I forget who came up with thecaptainethanmoreau but it's absolute gold.

    Anyway, yeah, I remember there was a time last season when 10 made a bad play and I said it's bad enough when the kids are making rookie mistakes but it's even worse when it's the vets taking the collar.

    So there's no doubt that the older guys have to be better in this regard but 18's too old to unlearn, as it were.

  47. commonfan13 says:

    I'm going to choose to be optimistic about O'Sullivan's very convincing SO goal. Like a struggling jump-shooter getting a dunk, it might be just the thing to shake off that snake bite.

  48. kinger says:

    Wow.

    Quinn was really steaming in the post game presser.

  49. Traktor says:

    Hits

    Stone 13
    Jacques – 11
    Brule – 9
    Stortini – 8
    Moreau – 5
    Cogs – 2
    Penner – 2
    Comrie – 1
    Gagner – 1
    Horcoff – 1

    At the very least the new guys are stepping up and filling their role.

  50. digger says:

    For myself, I've never really bought into this whole 'they have more actual NHL players' thing, because I consider it a vague catchall that can mean different things to different people.

    For instance, my interpretation of it is that the Flames don't have more actual NHL players than the Oilers…but the ones they have, on average, are better than ours.

    And from what I saw last night, our non-actual NHL players, as it were, did not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory to the same level that our supposed best players did.

  51. NBOilerFan says:

    James Duthie puts a good spin on the crazy rush to judgement far to many of us "crazed" fans are guilty of. Sure, they might not be as bad or uneducated as the "non-crazed" fans, but none-the-less, far to many seem to make far to much from such small "sample sizes".

    And ackowldeging that it is a "small sample size" before proceeding to make such rash judgements doesn't eleviate the fact that it is just that…. a rush to judgement.

    Anyway, even though it is James Duthie, I enjoyed it all the same….

    "Yes, we sports fans suffer from the embarrassing medical condition known as Premature Evaluation (PE)."

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=294197

  52. NBOilerFan says:

    And now it looks like Quinn may be in some hot water from teh NHL for his post-game comments RE: Iginla.

    "The NHL is investigating comments made by Edmonton coach Pat Quinn that suggested his team should have responded violently to Calgary captain Jarome Iginla's hit on Oilers defenceman Sheldon Souray Thursday night."

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/10/09/nhl_quinn_investigate/

  53. pboy says:

    Bruce gets the credit for theCaptainethanmoreau. One of my favorite things I've gotten from this site.

  54. Icecastles says:

    NB: As much as I loved hearing Quinn's comments last night, there was a pretty big part of me thinking that he was coming awfully close to crossing the line as far as condoning retribution violence. Seems to me a coach in Vancouver ran somewhat afoul of that a few years ago…

    As to the Premature Evaluation thing, he's absolutely right. In fact, I think we should shut down the blog and not discuss concerns, trends or hypotheticals until around the trade deadline. We're best to leave it to the mainstream media and their hard-hitting, take-no-prisoners style of buddy-journalism.

    We share our opinions and hypothesize because its fun, and we love the game. I'm pretty sure we're not costing anyone games by forcing to bench players or shuffle lineups based on our advice.

    Duthie must go red in the face when he hears about fantasy leagues.

  55. Ribs says:

    Do dirt with dirt or we'll whip all of you rubbydubs with our crusty onion belts! *shakes old man fist*

    Pretty silly.

  56. Scarlett says:

    I've liked Quinn's coaching so far for the most part, but maybe keep thecaptainethanmoreau off the ice with one minute to go.

  57. Rob Gilgan says:

    I think Glencross was destined for the Flames before he suited up with the Oilers. I don't think a second season was ever an option.

  58. Ribs says:

    Wowm they fined Quinn 10 grande for that?

  59. Oilman says:

    Bruce gets the credit for theCaptainethanmoreau. One of my favorite things I've gotten from this site.

    Fair is fair, Bruce is quoting wordsmith Mark Lee there.

  60. spOILer says:

    Moreau's comments after the game:

    It wasn’t like we coughed the puck up and they scored on a two-on-one. Those high tips are no man’s land. It’s just a tough loss. We did a lot of things well,” captain Ethan Moreau said.

    How's that for accuntability from the "team leader"?

    Excuse me for a moment, I see there's a wall that has no impression of my forehead yet. And yes, the typo is on purpose.

  61. Kenny Powers says:

    Liked what Quinn said and don't mind at all that he was fined. It was a dangerous play by Iginla and we should've sent more at him than Captain Compro and his 2 punch fall over backwards routine.

    If only Souray was able to become un-concussed, get up and beat the shit out of him. Hopefully he's back before January to get that chance…

  62. DBO says:

    i think that Quinn is approaching the moment where he calls Tambo into his office and lays out who should stay and who should go. I know it's only 3 games in, and he was pissed after the game but i think it's clear Quinn does not feel he has the right warriors to answer the bell. And based on the last few games, i think the true leader in the room and one the ice is Souray, and the fact that no one immediately came to his defense after the questionable hit makes me wonder about the heart of this team. Maybe it is time to clear out some of the old guard and bring in some other vets who get it. i don't advocate dumping vets for young kids, but Quinn wants a certain kind of team and i wonder if tambo will actually oblige him.

  63. Smarmy Boss says:

    Quinn if one of your underlings is reading this. I'll suit up for the team to hit Iginla over the head with a stick. I'll get Regehr too.

  64. Ribs says:

    Know what would have made everyone happy? Send that MacIntyre guy to fight Iginla instead of Moreau. Oh yea…Not in the lineup…

    I can't be mad for no one attacking Iginla directly after the hit. I think the players for both teams were more worried about Sourays well being than anything at that point. It's a hard argument to suggest Iginla was intending to injure there. He put himself in almost as much danger as Souray.

    The retaliation from Moreau was a nice thought…but not carried out very well. I think a well placed "rolled-the-hell-over" hit from Stone or Jacques would have been a better solution. The fight only sends a message if you win it. And morseso if you win it cleanly.

  65. FlamingPavelBure says:

    Let's do a small comparison

    Moreau
    Not leading by example

    Horcoff
    Leading by example

    Moreau
    Taking stupid penalties

    Horcoff
    Killing the captain's penalties

    Moreau
    A low 3rd liner at best

    Horcoff
    Low 1st liner, top 2nd liner

    Moreau
    Is the captain

    Horcoff
    Is not the captain.

    Can someone explain to me the logic of thecaptainethanmoreau?

  66. George B says:

    I disagree with some of Quinn's comments. There was a better way to do it.

    "I didn't like it and thought it was a dirty play. I wouldn't have honoured him with a fight, I would have played a far more physical game with their top players to ensure they know we aren't going to take that crap. It was a crap play."

    Suggesting retribution, hit on the head with the stick vigilante justice is just stupid.

    Other than that, I agree with the sentiment. Don't be a pussy and stick up for your teammate.

  67. kris says:

    The retaliation from Moreau was a nice thought … The fight only sends a message if you win it. And morseso if you win it cleanly.

    Interesting Ribs, but I disagree.

    On the list of things Jarome Iginla is scared of, losing a fight is #6832, near the bottom, along with paying his credit card on time, and not being able to get his white shirts to come out of the laundry really, really white like when he bought them.

    Even if you beat him, fighting the guy is pointless, utterly pointless. Fans might like it, but no way he cares enough about losing a fight for fighting to be a deterrent. I'd say the same is true of every guy in the league, except the guys who just run away from every fight anyway.

    (I know this debate about fighting and deterrence is old hat, but I just thought it's particularly odd to think you can deter a guy like Iginla. By comparison, not that Iginla is as tough, but could you deter Messier with a fight?)

  68. hunter1909 says:

    Calgary are a much better team than the Oilers. maybe they're elite even, although I'm not yet sure. One thing they do is, have enough super skill players that the rubbydubs can feel secure enough to grow their own games. That's exactly what the Oilers used to do with the dynasty, by the way – bring in all kinds of scrubs who would go on to play excellently in the shadow of the greats.

    The difference between the two teams was quite stark to me, even if the Oilers played almost as well as the opposition last night. Something about timing, which at the highest levels always get measured not in seconds but milliseconds. You can see it when you watch a great rock band, as opposed to a bar band who on the surface sound almost as good.

    Also, being able to come back from a defecit with seconds left, not once but twice pretty well proves my case. The Moreau fight was an embarassment, if you ask me. Like, if you're going to pick a fight, make sure you're going to win it. Maybe Iginla was a dirty f**ker with Souray, but he also reminded me of that kid from St Albert who could always win without malice, by not humiliating Thecaptainethenmoreau.

    I also think Quinn's going to be talking to Katz sooner than later, not Tambellini who with each passing day looks more like a caretaker than a boss. And why not? Quinn's the only one who has a clue over at Northlands.

  69. kris says:

    I liked Quinn's honesty, though they obviously deserved a fine. He was basically advocating exactly what the league doesn't want.

    Quinn also confirmed what I've heard from lots of old timers that Cherry's schtick about the olden days are crap. Cherry's continual assertion is that in the olden days if you took a cheap shot at a guy, you'd have to get in a fight. Therefore, fighting deterred guys from cheap shots.

    The truth is, as Quinn suggests, that, in the olden days, if you took a cheap shot against X, X would try to break your ankle while you weren't looking. And that's what deterred guys from playing dirty. Of course, there had to be a whole class of guys who went around taking cheap shots to enforce the code, which meant the game was incredibly dirty anyway, where sometimes the retaliations were far worse than the original offenses. No matter.

    The point is, here you have a guy who played back then, saying fighting is "an honor" not a punishment. Good stuff.

  70. Bling says:

    Dennis, nice job painting me as Moreau lover. You are, um, too kind :P

    I stand by what I said. The tying goal was a harmless floater of a wrist shot whose trajectory was changed from "two feet over the net" to "through Khabi's five hole" by a deflection made while the puck was 6 feet above ice level.

    That's batshit crazy. Why get worked up over it?

    Weird shit happens over the course of a season, and just because it happens early on doesn't mean that it's indicative of any kind of trend.

    That being said, I didn't like Moreau's comments today in the papers (Spoiler posted them). Has he owned up to anything in his entire life? The guy is Eddie Murphy in Delirious.

  71. Black Dog says:

    kris – yeah the whole idea that back in the day the game was played by gentlemen who played it with honour is a lot of BS – there are a thousand tales about even the superstars – Howe, Mikita, Richard, LIndsay – doing whatever they could to get an edge. Recently I read about Doug Harvey and how he punished a guy with a vicious play because said player had cheap shotted him. Orr was vicious too.

    Stickwork, elbows, eyegouging, slewfoots, sucker punches – ever see the old black and whites – blood everywhere, there's a beauty of Mikita and Henri Richard wailing on each other, bleeding all over the place.

    Guys literally had to fight to keep their jobs every year. So they did what they had to do to win.

  72. hunter1909 says:

    Black Dog – Back then most of the fans had been to war. And having experienced hell firsthand, they weren't in any mood to pay hard earned money, just to watch a bunch of prancing tits.

  73. kris says:

    Hunter,

    Quite right, people who've been to war really learn to appreciate violence.

    :)

  74. Woodguy says:

    It wasn’t like we coughed the puck up and they scored on a two-on-one. Those high tips are no man’s land. It’s just a tough loss. We did a lot of things well,” captain Ethan Moreau said.

    That reminds me of last year when the Oilers lost by a goal.

    The opposition scored two on the PP. The Oilers scored none of the PP, but out scored the opposition at evens.

    After the game thecaptain threw the PP under and the "so called skill guys" under the bus for the loss.

    I think Quinn sees through him like used neutrogena, this season should be interesting.

    Horcoff still playing 22 minutes per night.

    Heh.

  75. FlamingPavelBure says:

    I don't think Moreau can really throw shit at anyone in this point and time.

    He's getting old, has a huge salary for his role, and still takes stupid penalties while being a seasoned veteran.

    That and the fact everyone seemed to realize that aproximately 30 to 60 AHL'ers or non-NHL'ers could do the same job, but for less money

  76. Dennis says:

    I guess I wouldn't last very long in the league but if I was an Oiler and I was a close friend of 44's or thought he was valuable, I would take the next shift to make it a point of cracking my stick off over Iginla or Jokinene's ankle or perhaps even their back with a well-placed crosscheck.

    I had a chuckle at Quinn's comments but it smack of pre-meditation and in this era revenge is dish best served cold and it's also smarter if you give it as a gift rather than telling people you're about to deliver it.

    18's latest comments don't surprise me, either. I'm not sure if I've seen a more oblivious Oiler; well, outside of Tommy Salo.

    You only need to consider how MacT viewed 18 and what spewed from 18's mouth upon Mac's dismissal to see what a piece of crap he can be.

  77. hunter1909 says:

    Moreau's a Hawk by Christmas.

    Remember where you read it first.

  78. Bruce says:

    //Bruce gets the credit for theCaptainethanmoreau. One of my favorite things I've gotten from this site.//

    Fair is fair, Bruce is quoting wordsmith Mark Lee there.

    Thanks, fellows and glad you are enjoying my little runtogetherword. It's not Mark Lee but the voice of Kevin Quinn I "hear" everytime I write it … the four words joined as one, but with a special emphasis on the "captain" part to reassure us the great unwashed if everything's under control now, thecaptainethanmoreau will look after it, allswellwiththeworld. Except it usually isn't, if one is actually watching.

    It wasn’t like we coughed the puck up and they scored on a two-on-one. Those high tips are no man’s land. It’s just a tough loss. We did a lot of things well,” captain Ethan Moreau said.

    That is unfuckingbelievable. But technically, I suppose it's not like "we" coughed the puck up, it's like you coughed it up, Ethan. Man up and take some fucking ownership.

    It didn't lead to a 2-on-1, but it led to a jailbreak, when the routine play would have been to eat the puck or get it deep into the corner and eat up another 2, 3, 5 seconds. Not that that would have made any fucking difference or anything.

    Sorry if I sound harsh because there are many things about thecaptain that I have come to respect. I don't think I would list "fundamentals" high among his virtues however. And as one wag on the 'sphere (sorry, forget who) said the other day in a rather prophetic headline, "We have one defensive forward (and it's Ethan Moreau). Three games in, and it already sounds like a cry for help.

    I am doubly grumpy today because my two favourite teams in all of sports both lost consecutive heartbreakers in almost inexplicable fashion. It was like getting kicked in the left nut and then in the right one three hours later. And I didn't even have to change channels! So I'm not in any mood for horseshit excuses.

    [/rant]

  79. pboy says:

    I guess I wouldn't last very long in the league but if I was an Oiler and I was a close friend of 44's or thought he was valuable, I would take the next shift to make it a point of cracking my stick off over Iginla or Jokinene's ankle or perhaps even their back with a well-placed crosscheck.

    Hear, hear.

    No one would have had to told Kevin Mcleland or Dave Semenko or Dave Manson or Bryan Marchment that this was a situation that needed some attention. Or Brad May or Darcy Tucker or Bobby Clarke or Roger Clemens…. I really don't think that Iginla did it on purpose but that's not the point. A statement would have been made of theCaptainethanmoreau took a run at Kipper or tried to chop Regehr down like a cord of wood and the Head Coach wouldn't have had to make the comments he did.

  80. FlamingPavelBure says:

    This team needs a dose of Kasparitis.

    Hard hitting punishing player's that a thorn in every other team's skilled mans.

  81. pboy says:

    I am doubly grumpy today because my two favourite teams in all of sports both lost consecutive heartbreakers in almost inexplicable fashion. It was like getting kicked in the left nut and then in the right one three hours later. And I didn't even have to change channels! So I'm not in any mood for horseshit excuses.

    You are obviously referring to the Cards-Dodgers game. That was unreal but you could see it coming from a mile away. The look on LaRussa's face said it all. You have to slam the door shut when you get the opportunity and Tony's boys couldn't do it. Then their closer couldn't find the plate with a beachball and I kept waiting for a camera view of the Cards bullpen but Tony didn't have anyone up. It was like he was reading from Cito's book on how to completely f&%$'n mismanage a pitching staff.

  82. digger says:

    I'd like to take a moment, if I may, to point out that the Eskimos offense is about as impressive tonight as Telus phone support.

    It's like Ricky Ray has a collar with an explosive charge around his neck that's set to detonate if he throws a football >10 yards.

  83. digger says:

    Oh yeah, just over a third into the game and it's 17-1 BC. What happened to this being a "pride" game for the Esks?

  84. Smarmy Boss says:

    If Quinn really wanted to start stuff it would have happened. He's just trying to get this mess of a roster to come together as a team and play for one another. It only cost him 10k too.

  85. pboy says:

    I agree that Quinn is using this incident as a motivational tool but I think part of it, is a lament by PQ for a style of hockey that doesn't exist anymore.

  86. Doogie2K says:

    Eh, I can see where the NHL's coming from on that fine in a post-Bertuzzi world, but fuck, if someone had thrown a flying elbow or an intentional high stick at Iginla shortly after the incident, what would the suspension be? One game? Two? If you'd plowed into Kiprusoff at full speed, elbows up, would you get more than two for goalie interference? It's not like the NHL takes this shit seriously anyway, not on a consistent basis.

    Hell, how is this different from the Plekanec slew-foot from last year? I know I defended him at the time, and I maintain that while the two games were well-earned, there was no ill intent behind the incident, just as I don't think there was any ill intent here. Given that, what's the difference between tripping someone into the boards with your leg and tripping someone into the boards with your stick? Did the Plekanec incident really seem that much more intentional than the Iginla incident? Certainly, it's not because one is inherently less dangerous, as we can see by the results. Is it because Iginla is famous and Plekanec isn't?

  87. flamingpavelbure says:

    I would say more that, Plekanec had no past whatsoever related to an agressive penalty of Boarding charging, made slashing or anything of the sort.

    It's just not in his habits, so it would make it less likely to be intentional.

  88. doritogrande says:

    Toni Rajala's back playing.

    Goal and an assist tonight for Brandon in a 7-3 loss.

    He's 1-2-3 so far in two games.

  89. knighttown says:

    Really Doogie? You're going to bring up the Plekanec slewfoot again after the pounding you took last year. I did not see the Iginla incident because I was blacked out of the game here in Halifax…(begin aside)…

    …if this is anything more than a fuckup by Eastlink or NHL CI I may turn off the NHL completely. I live in Goddamned Halifax Nova Scotia and am willing to spend pretty much anything for the honour of staying up till 1:30 AM to watch the Oilers play on my 60". In will not sit in front of a computer screen. And they're going to black me out because I should be a Senators fan? Yup, Ottawa's very close and has deep, deep roots here on the right coast. I'm not sure anyone who lives in an NHL town understands what it's like being a diehard 4000 miles away from your team. My money's still good and this is downright disrespectful….

    …where was I. Oh yeah, Plekanec is a douche. It can be argued that he's moronic douche rather than a malicious one but that slewfoot was always going to cause an injury and was born from frustration. He deserves a pounding if not for the slewfoot, than for the fact that he's wears a turtleneck. Does he don skate-guards too?

    H-Bomb has the motherf-er list on his restricted site and Tomas deserves a spot.

  90. Gret99zky says:

    I prefer this year's start to last year's.

    This team is going to be fun to watch.

    Until they all get hurt….(sigh).

  91. Doogie2K says:

    You're going to bring up the Plekanec slewfoot again after the pounding you took last year.

    Yup. I think it's relevant. Like I said, I agree it was a dangerous play and a suspension was warranted, but I don't think it was malicious. Similarly, Iginla's play (getting his stick in the skates of a player going hard to the boards) was not malicious, but it was just as dangerous. Souray was concussed on the play as it was, but had he fallen in the other direction, he'd have been this year's Kurtis Foster.

    I just don't get the relative calm over this incident after the howling and, yes, pounding from last season.

  92. Schitzo says:

    What in the fucking fuck just happened in that football game?

  93. pboy says:

    The most interesting part of all of this for me is the fact that intent and past history should only be a part of the equation. The end result is the most important thing and at this point, Sheldon Souray is probably out of the lineup indefinitely with a minor concussion (I assume). Regardless of whether or not Iginla meant to do it or if he has a history of making these type of plays, it happened and he should receive some sort of league discipline. He won't, of course, because he is one of the faces of the New NHL but that doesn't mean it's okay. I would have been very happy to see Strudwick, Jacques, Stone or Zorg take a run at Kipper or douche Regehr and let the chips fall.

  94. Woodguy says:

    Its tough being a sports fan in Edmonton with less than a minute to play.

  95. spOILer says:

    And I had thought that Eskimo shit had ended with the Garden Gnome Macoccia getting kicked upstairs.

    All I could think about during the cold cold game was why wasn't Richie's poor bald head wearing Macoccia's touque?

    And it turns out they're wearing the same hat after all.

  96. spOILer says:

    Kris said…

    The truth is, as Quinn suggests, that, in the olden days, if you took a cheap shot against X, X would try to break your ankle while you weren't looking. And that's what deterred guys from playing dirty.

    I think Jim Schoenfeld would agree. And I think Cherry would too, but he can't say it on TV. Every player BDHS mentioned in his list would also have stood up and fought when Avon rang the bell.

  97. Bruce says:

    Every player BDHS mentioned in his list would also have stood up and fought when Avon rang the bell.

    The unfortunate thing about the Souray incident was that the best guy to stand up to Iginla was the guy who was downed. If Iginla had done that to any of the other four Oilers on the ice, I am certain he would have had Souray to answer to. So where (and who?) were Sheldon's teammates when he was on the bottom of the pile? Did they all think it was an accident? I would say obviously not, judging by Moreau's later, uh, performance. I agree with Quinn in my preference those things are dealt with right at the time, even if the kindly old coach and I might disagree on the method.

    I recall a somewhat similar incident involving Iginla in the 2004 playoffs. He and Mattias Ohlund were going at it the whole series, a wonderful man-to-man battle for seven-plus games. Except one time Ohlund crossed the line and rammed Iginla from behind head first into the boards. It was more of a recklessly dangerous hit than a malicious one, which is how I'd classify this latest as well. Anyway, Iginla got up (thankfully) and went right after Ohlund and settled the score right then and there, decisively won the fight as I recall.

    Alas, Souray did not get up. Any word on his condition?

    PS: My third favourite professional sports team is the Edmonton Eskimos. Have I mentioned it's been a tough couple of days?

  98. spOILer says:

    Bling said…

    Dennis, nice job painting me as Moreau lover. You are, um, too kind :P

    I stand by what I said. The tying goal was a harmless floater of a wrist shot whose trajectory was changed from "two feet over the net" to "through Khabi's five hole" by a deflection made while the puck was 6 feet above ice level.

    That's batshit crazy. Why get worked up over it?

    Weird shit happens over the course of a season, and just because it happens early on doesn't mean that it's indicative of any kind of trend.

    Bling,

    have you ever been dealt Ace-King in Hold'em, flopped another ace, but it's a flush draw, with the blind stickin in the game… Do you bet the guy out of the hand or slow play your 2 Aces for more moolah?

    Moreau tried for the third Ace and that IS unconscionable and it is, as far as Ethan is concerned, a trend. And Quinn rightly made specific mention of the play in his post game presser.

    That shot absolutely was batshit crazy, as is drawing the flush against 3 aces on 5th street, but the play NEVER SHOULD HAVE GOT TO THAT POINT.

    I've been a big defender of Moreau over the years, and don't get me wrong, I'm not too happy with Hemsky and the open net either, but Moreau's play was what I would expect from Eberle or Schremp at this point in their maturity.

    It was batshit dumb and inexperienced. From a vet and team captain, out there specifically to defend the lead!

    If you don't freeze the puck/pot when you have the chance, then the other guy hitting the flush/lucky bounce is definitely your fault, and you shouldn't be whining about his 1 in 20 to 30 odds of good luck.

  99. spOILer says:

    Bruce said…

    The unfortunate thing about the Souray incident was that the best guy to stand up to Iginla was the guy who was downed. If Iginla had done that to any of the other four Oilers on the ice, I am certain he would have had Souray to answer to. So where (and who?) were Sheldon's teammates when he was on the bottom of the pile? Did they all think it was an accident? I would say obviously not, judging by Moreau's later, uh, performance. I agree with Quinn in my preference those things are dealt with right at the time, even if the kindly old coach and I might disagree on the method.

    Bruce, all due respect, but I think you're missing the point.

    In the old days, Iggy would have been cheap shotted every shift thereafter until he had to stand up and fight to defend his own honour, and then likely either have been given a misconduct or tossed for starting a fight. Not us going to him and asking for a fight to defend our player's honour. There was no need to do anything by the players on the ice immediately at the time of the incident. And that's where the present NHL is upside down backwards to history.

  100. spOILer says:

    Happily, tomorrow, we get to play the only team in the league as small as us.

  101. R O says:

    The comments suggesting that dirty play should have followed the Iginla trip here are interesting.

    Firstly, I think there isn't a sound argument that there was intent to injure. Nothing in the play itself or Iginla's history would suggest intent. It was merely stupid, and dangerous.

    Secondly, I think a player that gives another player a concussion, but does it with intent and malice, deserves more punishment than a player who gives another player a concussion but without intent or malice.

    If we agree on those points, then I direct your attention to Lowetide's game thread from January 15, 2009, in which Sheldon Souray intentionally uses his wrist guard in a fight against Kyle Weller. Weller ends up with a concussion.

    Not a single comment in that thread calling for suspension or dirty play afterwards. Souray's use of the wrist guard is clearly stupid, dangerous, AND dirty and intentional.

    In the subsequent thread (a Colorado/Edmonton game thread) all mentions of Souray are praise about his fighting abilitites. No mention of suspensions, or retribution.

    C'mon guys. I understand the sentiment (Souray's an important player to the Oilers and you don't want to see him injured) but dont' be hypocrites.

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