Red Wings at Oilers, G13, 09-10

Doug MacLean is most famous for trying to kill hockey in Columbus. Lately he’s back in the news as one of the latest hires for hockey’s inferior network, Rogers. MacLean can be seen most nights using the words “Shawn Horcoff” and “7 million” in the same sentence and framing the issue in the most negative possible way without shining a light on the situation.

For the record, the number we need to remember with regard to Shawn Horcoff is 5.5 (million). That’s his cap hit and he’ll get that annually through the summer of 2015.

Horcoff has had a difficult start to the season, but coach Quinn has no real alernative at center. All the kids are kids and Michael Peca, Marty Reasoner, Jarret Stoll, Kyle Brodziak and others are in other towns.

Jason Gregor mentioned in an article over at Oilers Nation that JF Jacques was playing on Horcoff’s line (I believe O’Sullivan was the RW) at yesterday’s practice in an effort to shake things up. I think we can expect lots of shuffling the next few nights as coach Quinn figures out which players have their legs.

The Oilers haven’t scored a goal since the 2nd period of Saturday’s game and that’s 40 miles of bad road. What this team needs is a big offensive game from Shawn Horcoff. He needs it too.

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452 Responses to "Red Wings at Oilers, G13, 09-10"

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  1. Masamax says:

    I couldn't agree more, but something thus far has been off with Horcoff. His finish has been non-existent, and his execution very timid even on basic plays. I can hope for the best I suppose, but that line does not scream point producer to me.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Masamax: Well if he isn't injured it has to be confidence. Horcoff isn't 37 and from what we read his conditioning is superb.

    Horcoff has been an excellent player over several seasons. History tells us he'll move back to his career average numbers (per 82gp)17-32-49.

    He's a very good player and he isn't 37. The smart bet is recovery.

  3. shanetrain says:

    Yeah Horc and O'Sullivan need to hit twine in the worst way.

    Someone should replace Hemsky's field hockey stick with a real one.

  4. Smarmy Boss says:

    All I know is that Katz is paying Horcoff 7 million this year for an awful effort.

  5. quain says:

    I'd like to hear from the organization why Cogliano never gets at bats at left wing. Is it really more valuable having him at 4C than 2R? Is he that terrible on the wing?

  6. Yeti says:

    I don't think there's any lack of effort from Horcoff. That's a bizarre reading of the situation. There's lots wrong, but effort is not the issue.

  7. quain says:

    Well, Horcoff has the most time on ice per game despite the fact that he can't finish and is apparently out there dragging ass. You'd better call up Oilers HQ and let Pat Quinn know that he seems to trust a guy who is going through the motions! Quick!

  8. uni says:

    It's fun watching Doug Maclean ranting and ripping on Horcoff, and then contrasting that with Ray Ferraro who states that Horcoff is underperforming, but he's been overworked defensively since the Oilers have no other options and his offense has suffered as a result.

    Night and freaking day. Don't know how Doug lasted as long as he did, but Scott Howson must have been Messianic to that franchise.

    Not including Minnesota which is practically a Canadian province in regard to hockey, you look at Atlanta and Nashville and their success, compared to what Doug accomplished in Columbus and you just have to laugh. And Atlanta isn't exactly the pinnacle of expansion franchises.

  9. Woodguy says:

    I'd like to hear from the organization why Cogliano never gets at bats at left wing. Is it really more valuable having him at 4C than 2R? Is he that terrible on the wing?

    That question has been plaguing me too.

    Is it Cogliano, or the organization, or both?

    OTC was playing 91 at center and 13 on the wing for the first few games, then switched them.

    When asked about it Quinn said "He (Comrie) signed here to play the wing, so I guess he's going to play the wing"

    That indicates that Tamblowe wants 13 in the center.

    Why?

    Its really puzzling as he doesn't win faceoffs or have the defensive zone coverage that a center has to be able to do. (maybe that's why OTC has him 4C)

    Last game 18 seemed to cover down low defensively and 13 stayed higher, essentially 18 was doing 13's job in the Dzone.

    Was 18 just freelancing (probably) or were they told to do that?

    If they turn 13 into a LW, it makes the fixes on this team easier to get. A 1/2LW is tougher to find and more costly (trade or FA signing) than a 3/4C.

    If the Oilers could roll this:

    13-10-83
    27-89-19
    22-91/67-34
    18-91/67-46

    Then you have some balance to the lines given what you have to work with today.

    Also, if you turn 13 into a LW, the big gaping hole at LW might go away next year if MPS makes the team.

    1LW – Cogs
    2LW – Penner
    3LW – JFJ*
    4LW – MPS (while he learns, I'm sure he shoots up quickly)

    *(assumes 22 continues to progress towards being a NHL player, at this point that's debatable)

    Unless the Oilers plan on giving MPS a year in AHL, but given the history of this team its doubtful.

  10. doritogrande says:

    Shawn Horcoff's offensive strategy these days has me comparing him to Ethan Moreau. He's got the wheels, to bust ass out of the defensive zone, but once he gets into the offensive zone, a switch flips. I can't count the number of times he's thrown a blind pass into traffic or fired back a needless slapshot into the goalie's crest. It kind of hurts to watch after all this time.

    I don't think it's an injury thing. I don't think it's a confidance thing

    I think the problem lies with his linemates, and the notion that there isn't any chemistry there. I was hoping that once he got bumped from the top line he'd be able to pick up some chemistry with Lanterns, but that hasn't surfaced because they both shoot first and ask questions later. He needs that kind of player that'll mimic Hemsky in his mannerisms, if not his actual skill.

    Now normally my first choice would be Andrew Cogliano, but it appears he would prefer to play with dregs. I think it's a personal decision and not a coaching one because seriously, only someone demanding to play C with Moreau and Stortini versus wing with the potential of lining up in the top-6 makes logical sense. Can he really be that much better than Comrie? Because I ain't seeing it. Seems like 13's being a tad selfish and isn't allowing the coaching staff to maximize results.

    Me? I'd put him with Robert Nilsson and JF Jacques, with Stone to replace him when he's healthy.

  11. R-Gib says:

    Did somebody say Scorecoff?

  12. HBomb says:

    Shawn Horcoff: good player in a BAD slump (as opposed to some of the crap that`s been spewed elsewhere).

    He`s going to bust out of it sooner or later, but that being said, having to drag around JF Jacques is almost as bad as having to drag around Ethan Moreau (I`ll take JFJ at league minimum over Moreau at 2 million as my 4LW right now, but neither guy should be higher on the depth chart than this).

    Which brings me to my next point – the issues with the LW on the Oilers right now might be as bad or worse than the issues with needing a 3C. It`s basically Dustin "Pennzoil PPG" Penner and then….nothing. Moving Cogliano to 2LW certainly would help the situation, but I'd still say we need another guy with size and some tough minutes ability (I like BDHS' suggestion of one Alex Ponikarovsky as a short term fix).

    Oh, and Doug MacLean sucks. He's to hockey what JP Riccardi is to MLB – a butt of jokes told by other GM's.

  13. ian says:

    I'll bet Horcoff is frustrated too

  14. HBomb says:

    Another note on tonight's game – I'm back in town for the weekend and am going there. Any and all Detroit games are treated as special at this point, because Nik Lidstrom isn't going to play in the NHL forever (this is like how I treated Colorado games with respect to Sakic in the past).

    We have the opportunity tonight to watch the best NHL defenseman to play in the "post Bobby Orr" era, all apologies to Ray Bourque, Paul Coffey, and others. Lidstrom is the best I've ever had the pleasure to watch patrol the blue.

  15. misfit says:

    I don't know how Doug MacLean managed to get both a head coaching job AND a General Manager position in the NHL when he obviously knows nothing about the sport. And that goes well beyond his comments on Horcoff.

    But speaking of Horcoff, don't worry. Everyone will be using the $5.5M number in the last 2 years when he's only making 4 and 3 million respectively.

  16. dubya says:

    Just to play devil's advocate….

    I see a lot of explanations for Horcoff's plight suggesting that it's because the kids aren't viable options. But given that he's far from an offensive star, isn't his value that he can be used this way and break even or come out ahead? He's not gonna pound on soft comp, so if he can't break even and chip in a bit offensively as a defensive stalwart, why is he making $5.5 million?

  17. dubya says:

    Just to play devil's advocate….

    I see a lot of explanations for Horcoff's plight suggesting that it's because the kids aren't viable options. But given that he's far from an offensive star, isn't his value that he can be used this way and break even or come out ahead? He's not gonna pound on soft comp, so if he can't break even and chip in a bit offensively as a defensive stalwart, why is he making $5.5 million?

  18. misfit says:

    Putting Jacques on the Horcoff/O'Sullivan line might shake things up, but I don't see how it's possibly going to improve the line offensively. Maybe it's just me, but Jacques has been all kinds of bad this year, and really has no place on a line that's expected to create offense.

    Maybe if he channels his inner Smyth/Holmstrom/Penner and gets to the front of the net, learns to tip shots, and gets to every rebound, but not when his only skill seems to be hitting people.

  19. Hockey Noob says:

    Doritogrande,

    I've noticed the same observation regarding Horcoff looking more like Moreau lately. I can't speculate as to what ails Horcoff (confidence, bruised foot, etc), but we need him to find his game soon.

    Comrie feeding Horcoff passes on the rush lately looks nearly the same as when he played with Moreau.

    As for Cogliano, I would be excited to see him play wing in the top six instead of centering the fourth line. I assume he must be sick lately, because the Marchant-like wheels just haven't been there for more than a few games.

  20. LMHF#1 says:

    LT – I really don't think you see a large offensive effort from #10 as the way out of this. We have several other players who are much more likely to provide that kind of evening.

  21. Bling says:

    We're past the point of Horcoff being snake bit — right now, he isn't creating chances for himself or for his linemates.

    As fashionable as it may be around here to call for a third line center and faceoff help, this team would be ahead of where it is now (in the chances for/against department) if Horcoff was on his game.

    He's been off since preseason. He is losing battles for the puck along the boards, he is not cycling, he is firing shots wide, and he hasn't carried the puck through the neutral zone with any sort of efficacy.

    He is capable of doing all those things; right now he's inept beyond our side of center.

    The criticism, whether it comes from Doug MacLean or Ray Ferraro or whoever, is warranted.

    He needs to be better, and this team will sink if he doesn't turn it around soon.

  22. RiversQ says:

    Horcoff needs to do exactly what he did the last two years. He's worth every penny if he does that. A couple of big offensive nights only to placate the idiots out there wouldn't hurt but it won't change much.

  23. quain says:

    Since nobody wants to hear or believe stats, here's my take on Horcoff: His locker is out of place; if Pat Quinn would just put him on the Eastern end of the room his chi would be more aligned with the positive forces of the universe and he would be able to wire goals in from 90 feet.

    Alternatively, if they offered Jacques as a blood sacrifice to Zuul, he'd be able to finish like Ovechkin.

    THERE IS NO SHAWN, THERE IS ONLY ZUUL.

  24. Woodguy says:

    Everyone's favorite Sun columnist Terry Jones is referring to 10 as "the 7 million dollar man" too.

    I can't wait for Jones' annual Oiler Christmas wish list where he'll implore the players to all be more like Moreau.

  25. Mr DeBakey says:

    A quick trip to Behind the Net this morning shows the following luminaries with 0.00 under Goals/60:
    ALEXANDERSTEEN
    ALEXTANGUAY
    ANDREIKOSTITSYN
    BRYANLITTLE
    CHRISTOPHERHIGGINS
    CORYSTILLMAN
    CRAIGCONROY
    DANIELSEDIN
    DAVIDLEGWAND
    DEREKROY
    DERICKBRASSARD
    ERIKCOLE
    HENRIKZETTERBERG
    JASONSPEZZA
    JOEPAVELSKI
    JOHANFRANZEN
    JONATHANCHEECHOO
    KYLEWELLWOOD
    MARTINHAVLAT
    MATTSTAJAN
    NIKANTROPOV
    RYANCALLAHAN
    RYANECLOWE
    SAKUKOIVU
    SCOTTHARTNELL
    SERGEISAMSONOV
    SIMONGAGNE
    TIMCONNOLLY
    VYACHESLAVKOZLOV

    Where's Horcoff?

  26. quain says:

    He's off somewhere having tea and NOT DESTROYING MY FANTASY TEAM. I'm looking at you Hartnell/Gagne/Havlat!

  27. guitar_dude_83 says:

    Gawd,.. even Im sick of talking about Horcoff…

    This is the first LT post, in my memory, that I will not finish reading…

    Go Oilers

  28. Bruce says:

    Quain: Beat me to it. I was going to say that list looked exactly like my fantasy team.

    Besides "big scorers" Roy, Gagne, and Havlat I also have Horcoff and I'm not too happy with him either. 2 frickin' points. But the point is and remains that we're not even a month into the long season, and many/most of the slow starters will turn things around. So will the fast starters for that matter.

    To my eye Horcoff's game is coming around. I attended the game Tuesday and thought he was the best Oiler on the ice. Had his legs going in all three zones and was distributing the puck well, lots of clever little five-foot passes. The points will come.

  29. Adam_Skoreyko says:

    I just thought I would post a thought I had last night about the current situation between the two camps of Oiler fans.

    The fans that post here and attempt to take a detached and more cerebral method of evaluation reminds me a lot of the so called 'blue states'. You have a clear disdain for the other side yet you will typically never come out and directly state that you think your opponent is below you intellectually and lacks the same education on the game as yourself. Instead you see a lot of muffled backhanded indirect jabs at the clearly inferior 'saw him good' fans of the same country(team).

    The 'Red States' on the other hand openly hate most that exists on this site and make no bones about stating it loud and proud in public. They even try to simplify the issue and boil it down into a quick small sound byte. My favorite part is the blatant mocking of anything quantitative and instead wish to rely only on very subjective and personal qualitative qualities (the biggest fallacy today is that you can think/say whatever you want, even if it is wrong, because it is 'my opinion') to make their decisions on certain players.

    Anyway I hope you enjoy being the 'social elite' and please don't let the simpletons get you down, but enough with the weak indirect jabs at HFboards you might as well get the full satisfaction of calling them directly out.

  30. geowal says:

    Did somebody say Scorecoff?

    It'd be nice to see him show up. Opposed to the new favourite moniker going around Oilerdom, "Horcough"

  31. Lowetide says:

    Adam: I sincerely don't think of it that way. I found a tremendous group of people at hfboards when arriving there in May 2000 and still count them among my best online friends.

    One day, Dennis and I will meet, beat the shit out of each other and then drink until we're dead. :-)

    I think you find the people you like and ignore those you don't, with a few idiots name calling and generally disturbing the peace.

    But it's all good, I don't feel a need to call anyone out. The only things I've ever asked for is that people don't tell me what to put on this blog and that they be respectful.

    In the cases when that hasn't happened, I've either closed the thread or made it clear in subtle ways those people are not welcome.

    It's surprisingly effective.

  32. MDOilFan says:

    Souray has digressed according to Tencer Tweet. That's really not good. Horcoff on the top line tonight with Penner, so maybe that boosts his confidence. The kid line gets a look under Quinn, finally, lets hope they have some of the magic beans they used to have.

  33. Adam_Skoreyko says:

    I am not pointing any fingers at you LT or anyone else in particular. Just trying to comment on a phenomenon that I have noticed is happening more frequently now.

    Also I just wanted to make a shameless fanboy statement, I love your work LT and please don't ever stop.

  34. CrazyCoach says:

    Well seeing no one believes in sports psychology, I suggest we start weighing Horcoffs BM's on non-game days when he's eaten a BLT, and compare them alongside Doug Maclean's BM's when he mentions $7 Million on game day broadcasts between periods when at least two other NW division teams are playing in two differing time zones.

  35. Lowetide says:

    CC: I believe in things like visualizing (Wade Boggs used to visualize the ball landing safely in LF–that and chicken were the keys) and certainly there's a mental aspect to it.

    I think people know this, but defining and measuring are a distant bell.

  36. Woodguy says:

    Souray has digressed according to Tencer Tweet.

    Shouldn't that be regressed?

    When I read "digressed" I imagined Souray talking about a subject then changing topics mid-stream…like the time he went to Shelbyville…

  37. MDOilFan says:

    I think it was a Quinn quote, so I guess Tencer may be off the hook for that.

  38. oilerdiehard says:

    Lowetide said…

    Well if he isn't injured it has to be confidence. Horcoff isn't 37 and from what we read his conditioning is superb.

    Horcoff has been an excellent player over several seasons. History tells us he'll move back to his career average numbers (per 82gp)17-32-49.

    He's a very good player and he isn't 37. The smart bet is recovery.

    I am a Horcoff fan. But man is he struggling. A struggle that makes 5.5 not feel much better than 7 mill. I do think he has some gas left in the tank though.

    But not every player waits until 37 either to start decline. Just ask Ethan Moreau who is only a couple years older than Horc. I guess one difference there is Horcoff will still be soaking up a 5.5 million cap hit until just before he turns 37.

    As I said I think Horcoff still has some gas left in the tank. I am not certain the injuries did not slow him down a bit going forward. I definitely do worry if we are going to get anything even close to value in the second half of that deal.

    But what's done is done. I just hope he can get back on track and soon. We are going to need it.

  39. CrazyCoach says:

    True LT, very true.

    I do know though that proper sports pyschology cannot happen without measurable results, and believe it or not Stats are affected by sport psychology. They have a symbiotic relationship.

  40. quain says:

    Twitter says Kid Line is back tonight, so…

    27-67-83
    13-89-12
    22-10-19
    18-91-46

    Or 91 up top?

  41. goldenchild says:

    Horcoff has been a terrifically effective player for a number of years and is crutial to any success the Oilers may have in 09-10. He is clearly struggling with confidence and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some physical ailment as well. Generally the performance of people Horcoffs age don't fall off a cliff so i would think his counting numbers will find his averages that we have come to expect.
    I still think Horpensky is the best option for this team in a PVP role, hopefully 34 comes back and can stay in the lineup for 65 or so games that would certainly help as well and I still hold out hope for 78 but who knows what he will look like when he gets back.

    Bottom line to me is even if 10 can get going offensivley this team still has way more problems up front that have nothing to do with his slow start, the roster just doesnt make sense as currently constructed and only a trade will fix that.

    Dennis if your around have you been watching Curb this season? The Denise Handicap – Wendy Wheelchair episode is in the top 5 episodes of any sitcom all time classic.

  42. Lowetide says:

    quain: Gregor has it:

    Penner — Horcoff — Hemsky
    Cogliano — Gagner — Nilsson
    Jacques — Brule — O’Sullivan
    Moreau — Stortini — MacIntyre

    Strudwick — Gilbert
    Grebeshkov — Chorney
    Peckham — Smid

    From practice.

    Interesting all down the line. Word is Comrie might draw in and that Pisani could go, but that's an interesting F and D right there.

  43. Smytty777 says:

    LT: I'm glad I have Datsyuk in my hockey pool because that might be the only good thing to come out of tonight with those D pairings.

    It will be tough to judge this team when they are without their 2 best D men and down a 3rd starter.

  44. Bruce says:

    MacIntyre against the Red Wings? Good grief.

  45. MDOilFan says:

    Smytty777 – Datsyuk may be a no go, so for you, no good will come out of tonight.

  46. Mr DeBakey says:

    Well, McIntyre will keep those Red Wings in line

    The Oilers will be able to skate through the neutral zone with their heads down all night.

  47. Bruce says:

    Goddammit, I got Datsyuk in my pool.

    Oilers most experienced defenceman tonight, by far, is Jason Strudwick at 569 GP. Next, way way back at just 214 GP, is Ladi Smid. Tied for third are the Goal Givers, G&G, at 188 GP each. Then comes Peckham with 18 GP and Chorney with just 10.

    Yikes.

  48. kris says:

    they are without their 2 best D men

    The ordering of the best D men is supposed to be something like: 1.) Vis 2.) Souray 3+4) Grebs Gilbert 5.) Smid 6.) Staios 7.) Chorney 8+9) Chorney and Peckham

    I'd argue that, so far, Smid has been better than the disappointing Grebs and Gilbert and is playing as the third best D-man.

    So the Oil are missing their 2nd and 6th best D-man.

    Those kind of injuries are going to occur all the time. You have to keep winning, even with moderate injuries, if you're going to make the playoffs.

  49. kris says:

    Obviously, 7.) should be Strudwick

  50. MDOilFan says:

    1st, 2nd, & 6th – hurts a lot more than 2nd & 6th

  51. Smytty777 says:

    Kris: I'm not sure what you are saying here? They are likely down Vis and Souray tonight are they not the Oilers 2 best D men? Factor in Staios and it is tough to judge this team tonight.

  52. kris says:

    Oops, I forgot Vis was out. Thought you meant Staios.

    So sorry, I is so dumb.

  53. Bling says:

    Add up the Corsi numbers of Stortini, SMac, and Moreau.

    Fellas, that's a big number beside the minus sign! :P

  54. HBomb says:

    Woodguy: Terry Jones used the "7 million" term?

    No surprise there, considering the guy is an unprofessional hack without a clue.

  55. Bruce says:

    Jones is a supersized douchebag. He is to the print media what Doug MacLean is to TV.

  56. quain says:

    This should be a good look at whether Horcoff is injured or not. This will be his first game with two real linemates who are, presumably, not crushed by the flu. Detroit is studly (outside the tending) and our defense is garbage, so I wouldn't presume to hope for a +10 Corsi night, but even would look pretty stellar.

  57. Smytty777 says:

    Kris: Oh I see, I would whole-heartedly agree that Staios should never in any circumstance be considered a top 2 d-man.

  58. Doogie2K says:

    I think people know this, but defining and measuring are a distant bell.

    I've never quite understood this compulsion to measure that which inherently can't be measured. We can measure all kinds of things, but there's a reason intangibles have that moniker: they have a clear effect on the game that can be seen indirectly in the measurable numbers, but they cannot themselves be readily quantified. There's no confidence multiplier you can work out by measuring someone's shooting percentage, dividing it by their career average, and correlating that with the answers they give on a self-confidence questionnaire. (Though it would be pretty cool if you could.) They get arguably too much play from broadcasters who are too lazy to look for another explanation (linemates, opposition, zonestart), but both my sports psychology and my exercise physiology professor agree, almost word-for word: When you're talking about athletes in the absolute best shape you'll ever see, and at the absolute top of their game from a pure skill standpoint, the last couple of percentage points that are all mental usually become the difference between success and failure.

    As for 10's specific problem…I'm still thinking part of it is injury (that foot can't be 100%), part of it self-induced pressure from the huge contract, and part of it a lack of time with two NHL wingers.

    Add up the Corsi numbers of Stortini, SMac, and Moreau.

    Fellas, that's a big number beside the minus sign! :P

    It's almost as big as Terry Jones.

    Thank you, I'll be here all afternoon.

  59. William says:

    Chorney + Grebs? That's a whole lot of puck-moving ability + own-zone chaos right there. I'd put Grebs with Peckham and Chorney with Smid: one puck-mover and one banger on each pairing. You know, put 44 and 71 back into the mix and we do have a pretty nice set of D – too bad they're both on the shelf and taking >$10M in cap room with them.

    Hope that 4th line can stay out of trouble tonight. I used to notice how Pisani could go onto any line and make it better. Penner's starting to do that consistently this year, and to a lesser extent, Gagner. Couple of bright spots amidst this H1N1/injury/suckage gloom. Hopefully they kickstart the old Horpensky and Kid lines.

  60. HBomb says:

    Gregor's got the PP units as such:

    Unit 1: Horpensky with O'Sullivan and Grebeshkov

    Unit 2: Nilsson-Gagner-Brule with Gilbert and Chorney

    My thoughts:

    - I don't mind Horpensky at ES, but the Gagpensky trio should be maintaned for PP purposes, IMO.

    - What's it going to take for Cogliano to even get second unit PP time?

    Also from Quinn's comments, the shuffling is all driven by Comrie not being available, as the original plan had been Comrie on the line with Horcoff.

  61. Yeti says:

    The Oilers site has the D-pairings different from Gregor:

    Gilbert + Chorney
    Grebs + Smid
    Strudwick + Peckham

  62. Yeti says:

    Quinn on the changes:

    "I had planned on Mike up in there to play with Horcoff, but now that's not going to happen so we decided to rebalance the whole bunch," he explained.

    "If Mike's not going, then we were going to put those kids back together probably and let them play. To do that we had to pull Gagner from what most considered the number one line, and that's how it ended up. It was kind of like Bingo this morning."

  63. Bruce says:

    Add up the Corsi numbers of Stortini, SMac, and Moreau.

    OK, I'll bite:

    Zorg: -17.18
    SMac: +33.49
    tcem: -25.80
    ————–
    Total: -9.49
    Mean : -3.16

    Or if you prefer Relative Corsi:

    Zorg: -5.2
    SMac: +50.2
    tcem: -15.4
    ————–
    Total: +29.6
    Mean : +9.9

    Best line on the club. As long as SMac keeps outshooting by a 2:1 ratio* we'll be fine.

    (* Total shots for the season with SMac on the ice: Oilers 2, Bad Guys 1. Not that that's a small sample size or anything. :D )

  64. Ed says:

    I don't understand why the oilers don't call up a forward. There must be a center on the farm capable of 8 mins.

  65. PDO says:

    We're going to get slaughtered unless Osgood has a SV% around .750 and Khabublin plays the best game an Oiler goalie has played since CuJo against Dallas in G7…

    Good news is, I have a lot of money riding on Detroit tonight.

  66. Yeti says:

    They could only do that if they sent down MacIntyre. So, why don't they send him down for @#$%'s sake? Give me Potulny or Reddox anyday.

  67. HBomb says:

    Ok, the guy who just called into Oilers Lunch is the embodiment of everything that I hate about Oilers fan.

    Brilliant observations (sarcasm) from said caller:

    - Horcoff's nothing but a 3rd line player.
    - He's a 40-50 point center at best.
    - His offensive production is nothing but a product of Hemsky.
    - He belongs on a checking line.
    - Moreau-Horcoff-Pisani would be a good idea.
    - Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky doesn't work.

    And soforth. Considering that there was a statement that Cogliano is playing well in spite of playing with Ethan Moreau (which the Corsi numbers shows is pretty much a bunk statement), and I'd almost guess that the caller was someone who posts here on said subjects on occasion.

    Then they follow it up with Daily Doug (aka Daily Dull, Daily Dumb, etc). Both guys try to write off Horcoff's 05-06 and 07-08 seasons, Daily Doug says "Horcoff's scoring per minute has always been low", and Horcoff should produce more for all the minutes he plays (without any mention of all those own zone draws and "extra minutes" not being ones that have opportunities to generate offense).

    The coup d'etat? Daily Doug saying about how a team can't go anywhere with Horcoff as their first line center. Ummm, game seven of the Cup finals in 2006, dumbass. Five or six years of hearing this tool call into 1260 and not a provocative thought the entire time.

    The guy is off to a lousy start, but a lot of people need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize a few things. The two most important?

    1) This guy is not just a 3rd liner who has offensive totals that are a product of playing with Ales Hemsky. He is, when he is on his game, a very good and productive NHL'er who's points per game post-lockout translate to almost 65 points per 82 games. First liner? Without question. When he's on his game being the key point. Right now, he's not.

    2) This is not a guy who is "done" in his early 30's – he's a good player who's had a bad run of 12 games, factors for which are potentially numerous and have been discussed at length.

    A poster above makes fun of this place being the "social elite" of Oiler fans – I don't know if I totally agree with his assessment of the situation, but I do believe there's a lot of simpleton Oiler fans out there. Unfortunately, they're usually the ones calling into the radio shows (the dumb ones are usually the loudest), and some of them get jobs as lead columnist for the Edmonton Sun.

    One more thing: here's to Pedro Martinez turning the clock back about a decade tonight and sending the World Series to Philly with the Yankees down 2-0.

  68. Mr DeBakey says:

    A poster above makes fun of this place being the "social elite" of Oiler fans – I don't know if I totally agree with his assessment of the situation

    I don't think he was making fun,
    just an observation.

  69. Bar Qu says:

    I actually enjoyed the civil war allusion in the description of posters here. But that makes me Kansas, 'cause I don't no nuthin'.

    It may be obvious to someone like Ferraro that Horcoff is already worn down by the overreliance on his defensive reliability (which has thus killed his confidence, as speculated) but then why not management? You want your first line centre back? take away his part-time job as the defensive 3rd line C. Let him focus on killing the toughs with his strong play, not shoring up the crumbling wall of the rest of the team's defensive liabilities.

    I am hoping the game is not on TV at all tonight, so I can safely ignore said pummelling of my favourite team.

  70. Oilman says:

    I'm all for Pedro beating the Yankees – but seriously, is there a tougher guy to cheer for right now?** his quote from today is something like "I might be the most influential player that's ever played at Yankee stadium"

    **not including Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, C.C. Sabathia, and Johnny Damon.:o)

  71. Woodguy says:

    Souray has digressed according to Tencer Tweet.

    Shouldn't that be regressed?

    When I read "digressed" I imagined Souray talking about a subject then changing topics mid-stream…like the time he went to Shelbyville…

    MDOilfan said:
    I think it was a Quinn quote, so I guess Tencer may be off the hook for that.

    Priceless.

  72. Dennis says:

    GC: Yeah, I saw that show and promptly called one of the boys and told him to put it on his must see list:)

    BTW, you seem like a guy who might be watching Sons of Anarchy? I know I keep pimping that show but it's honestly that good.

    LT: I don't think we'll ever fight:) I don't even know if we'd hardly even talk Oilers; I dare say we'd start on the Expos and Then we'd drink ourselves to death.

    Plus, if I have one fight in me then it's probably with Robin Brownlee considering some of his posts towards me last year:)

    Finally, Lain, you did leave out the other thing that Wade Boggs believed in: hint, it's a body part belonging to Margo Adams.

    BTW, people, stop whining about all the tragedies befalling your respective fantasy teams. I have lost all of D. Sedin, Gonchar and now, today, Malkin to top it all off.

    Regarding tonight, it looks like an over for sure – line 5.5 – because our D isn't all that impressive and the Kid line could get light the fuck up.

    Though after hearing that 13 dressed up as Dany Heatley for Halloween, I support any effort that might get that guy going:)

    Anyway, we know the problems we have and 34 might help those a little but be it 13 or whomever, we need someone to round out that top six.

    I did notice one thing from Quinn's comments today, though. He was talking about scoring chances and how the Oilers were scoring one goal for every four chances earlier in the season. I don't know how that jives with my project but last year I believe they were scoring one goal approximately every seven chances; or, at least by my counts.

  73. Bruce says:

    ^^^^^

    Sorry, almost broke my rule about treating others with respect. Let's try again.

    Daily Doug saying about how a team can't go anywhere with Horcoff as their first line center. Ummm, game seven of the Cup finals in 2006, dumbass. Five or six years of hearing this tool call into 1260 and not a provocative thought the entire time.
    The guy is off to a lousy start

    HBomb: They both are. But I'd bet the house Horcoff bounces back before Daily Doug does.

  74. John says:

    Wow

    We are playing Detroit and are dressing MacIntyre…..Blownaway!!!
    For what reason?

    Horcoff is a very good 2nd line center that is overpaid. He is being paid as if the 05-06 and 07-08 seasons are his normal performance. The problem is NOT that he is a bad player…….quite to the contrary, he is very good at a wide variety of skills but scoring is not, with the exception of those 2 years (one full season and one partial) one of his strengths. If he was being paid $3.5 to $4.0 per we would not have a single complaint.

    The real problem is that with so few "good" contracts on the Mighty Oil Horcoff's front end loaded contract looks worse than it should and what is worse it is not offset by Pisani, Staios,Moreau and others being underpaid or playing under good contracts

  75. Dennis says:

    On baseball: I'm one of these guys that has to find someone to root for or else I can't watch a big event like the Series.

    The Phils were only a threat to Les Expos in the times of LT and Bruce;) and were mostly doormats when I was growing up. I remember days when both Kevin and Greg Gross were playing for them and there would be a game from TSN and The Vet with Ken Singleton talking about how a team was only a contender once they got 20 games over .500.

    It's funny the things you remember, isn't it?

    Anyway, these were the days of Steve Jeltz and Juan Samuel and nothing to worry about. Later on, you had '93 and that was painful enough but outside of Curt Schilling, I never could get a good hate on for them. Still, I found it hard to cheer for them vs the Yanks just because of the old NL East days.

    But when I read Jeff Blair's column in yesterday's Globe and I saw just how much of a different stage the Yanks operate from, then it became easy to pick a favourite for the last series of the year.

    Which takes me to Pedro.

    I went out for lunch today with a buddy of mine and we're talking Cliff Lee and I mentioned how I looked at his minor league stats from the Expos chain and they weren't great. Granted, he did post a good ERA in AA Harrisburg and that was somewhat impressive because the Eastern League was a hitter's paradise in some parks. But he was 24 when he did that so, you know, he wasn't skipping the curve so he wasn't off the charts promising. I then remembered that when me and my buddy were growing up, guys would normally play at least some AAA ball before they made the show and how I could still remember what a big deal to me it was when Delino DeShields skipped a level.

    DeShields was traded for Pedro, BTW.

    I'm not sure if the deal happened on a Sat or I read it in the Sat paper but I remember waking up one hungover morning in '93 to read that DeShields had been dealt for a guy that was only known to me as Ramon Martinez's brother. These were the days before the net so these days you could get a better idea of what he just might become but back then I just had cursory knowledge.

    Well, I remember a televised game vs the Reds in '94 when he plunked Reggie Sanders to bust a perfect game and i was in love:)

    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1994/B04130MON1994.htm

    Then you had the perfect game in SD in '95 and the unreal performance in '97 and the guy isn't Walker and he isn't Vladdy but I still love the guy.

    So, yeah, I'm all about Pedro tonight.

  76. Lowetide says:

    The Phillies for me are still about Mike Jack Schmidt. The Expos were a real good club in the late 1970's but Schmidt would kill them every damn time.

    I don't remember the year, but Schmidt had a game against the Cubs in the mid-70's that was just stupid. I don't even want to pretend to remember how many rbi's he had but it was a lot.

    He was a killer. I didn't hate the Phillies though, nor the Pirates. The Mets were a different story even then.

    So, it's the Phillies.

  77. goldenchild says:

    He was brilliant in his start in LA, this stage is larger and the lineup he's facing and Ballpark doesnt seem to match up very well but its hard not to think of Pedro as the unhittable maestro he was in Boston, so I am hoping like hell he has another throwback performance in him. Plus as a diehard Eagles fan I'm happy for the sportsfans of Philly, it would be great to see them win on this stage. Sundays Philly NY doubleheader with Birds and Giants is gonna be pretty special.

    Dennis I saw a few episodes of season 1, but my dish went down in the summer and I havent seen it since. Maybe I will dl it and watch from the start, you got me on to Mad Men and i love that show, its been great all season.

  78. John says:

    Pedro might have been the best pitcher the Expos ever had….yes, yes I know Grissom, Rogers, Gullickson, Charlie Lea, El Presidente but if I had to win one game I would select Pedro to take the mound

    LT is right about Schimdt over a 3 or 4 game series he would absolutely kill the Spos….as did Steve Carlton

    Best thing of the 94 strike Spos was that they had 2 or 3 series against the Altanta Braves prestrike and Walker,Grissom and Alou et al killed them…very good pitching very good D and a very good hitting club. Not the best at anyone element but at the top of all

    And, therefore, a strike was necessary to kill off the Expos

  79. Bruce says:

    LT: I think you're talking about this game. Schmidt with 4 HR (in consecutive at-bats in the 5th, 7th, 8th, and 10th innings) and 8 rbi. Just had to be in good ol' Wrigley Field, where Schmidt's heroics erased a 12-1 deficit and led the Phils to an 18-16 win. Ad I recall — and as that box score is my witness — the wind was blowing out in Wrigley that afternoon.

  80. Dennis says:

    GC: Yes, man, I rarely steer people wrong when it comes to TV.

    Notice I said, TV;)

    John: I remember in '94 there used to be Monday Night Baseball on ABC and I was chasing this girl and we were dating a little bit and I dropped her off early so I could go home and watch a Monday Night Game of the week with the Expos visiting Atlanta.

    And I Really liked that girl:)

    Thinking about '94, it reminds me that the Expos need someone to step up and be Jeff Fassero. They found that guy in the Cards system and then he's a reliever and then he's one of the best LH starters in baseball.

    So we need someone to Fassero themselves into our top six.

    Dude was a super arsehole, though:)

  81. Jonathan Willis says:

    Shawn Horcoff's PDO # is second last on the team (ahead of Ryan Stone) at 96.4%.

  82. Jonathan Willis says:

    Shawn Horcoff's relative Corsi: +2.4.

  83. Chateau la Puck says:

    So Smid has full on H1N1 and will go. I'm thinking Quinn's strategy is that rather than forechecking, the Oil skate around coughing on Wings. They decide that 2 points isn't worth a teamwide pandemic and retreat to the dressing room.

    Apparently Jimmy Howard (he of 2 NHL victories in 4 years — see, not all the Wings' hot prospects surge to elite level) draws in. I'm thinking that he posts a save % around .720 and the Oil are in with a chance.

  84. PDO says:

    Horcoff will bounce back, hopefully sooner rather than later. He needs a shade more offense, but his play in the other 2 zones has been just fine.

    Carrying around a boat anchor at LW all season hasn't helped.

  85. pboy says:

    The wheelchair episode of Curb was fantastic. Just the look of self satisfaction on Larry's face when people saw he was with a disabled person made the whole show worth watching. That and the "pie" incident with Ted Danson….. A friend got me to watch Flight of the Conchords lately and it took me a couple of episodes but I finally came to the conclusion that I really like those idiots, particularily the band manager, Murray.

    Should be another interesting night at Rexall. Detroit's goalies haven't been all that good lately so maybe Horc and POS can get back on the scoresheet.

    With Vis, Souray and Staios out, the puck will probably be in the Oiler's zone for 40+ minutes tonight.

  86. FlamingPavelBure says:

    The real expos killer was

    Steve Carlton.

    Or in the late years, any player playing for the Atlanta Braves.

  87. Bruce says:

    The Phils were only a threat to Les Expos in the times of LT and Bruce;)

    I'll say they were a threat. In 1980 the Phillies won the NL East by 1 game over the Expos, and went on to win the World Series. In '81 the two teams met in the playoffs as the split season led to an extra post-season round. The Phillies won the first half, the Expos the second, and my Cards got screwed out of a playoff berth despite having the best overall record in the NL East. The Expos beat the defending champs in 5 games before losing to the Dodgers in the LCS on Blue Monday.

    Those Phils had quite the line-up, including the great Steve Carlton, Mike Schmidt and Bob Boone, all of whom I didn't particularly like but greatly admired. They also had two of the biggest arseholes in all of baseball in Pete Rose and Larry Bowa, which made them an easy team to root against.

    Even though my Cards were out I was far from a neutral observer — the 'spos were always my #2 team with a bullet. So when Steve Rogers outduelled Lefty Carlton 3-0 in the decisive Game 5, it was a sweet moment.

  88. HBomb says:

    Ok, maybe I haven't been paying attention lately, but "relative Corsi" is a new one to me. Anyone care to enlighten me?

  89. kris says:

    Each player's relative Corsi is the difference between his Corsi number and the averaged Corsi number of teammates, no?

    Behindthenet.ca now has Relative Corsi as a category, I believe.

  90. PDO says:

    Behindthenet.ca also has PDO as a category…. :D

  91. Bruce says:

    Correct. e.g. among forwards with 10+ GP, Sam Gagner has the best Corsi of minus (egads) -4.06 attempted shots per 60. When he's off the ice the team has a collective rate of -16.32. Thus Gagner's relative Corsi is:

    (-4.06) – (-16.32) = +12.26

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three minuses can make a plus.

  92. Bruce says:

    Behindthenet.ca also has PDO as a category…. :D

    PDO: Gabe Desjardins added the Sh% ON, Sv% ON, and PDO# to his new Corsi section at a reader's suggestion cough*mine*cough. While Vic's site seems to be down his ideas live on, and since Gabe had all the raw data there anyway I figured why not? and sent him a note. However, the feature is still under construction — it currently calculates Sh% and Sv% on attempted shots (Corsi) rather than actual shots. We've been in correspondence on the matter and Gabe figures to have that fixed tomorrow. So file it under Coming Very Soon.

    Gabe is The Man.

  93. Lowetide says:

    Bruce said "Gabe is the man."

    Isn't he? Every once in awhile he'll send me an email saying "I've done this, let me know if it can be improved."

    I click on the link, my eyes boggle and a new door is opened. He probably thinks I don't pay attention, but the fact is he could be charging for this stuff but gives it away.

    A generous soul, and clearly independently wealthy. :-)

  94. R O says:

    Bruce:

    One aspect of Vic's site is still live. Shots during a game.

    http://www.timeonice.com/shots0910.php?gamenumber=20143

    And change the game number as you please.

  95. Bruce says:

    One aspect of Vic's site is still live. Shots during a game.

    Thanks R O, I was aware of that but should have mentioned it. It's a valuable single-game analysis tool which I frequently cite in my game reports over at the Copper & Blue.

    I had become addicted to some of Vic's other gadgets such as ZoneStart, PDO, Corsi etc. Thanks to Gabe that information continues to be available. The raw data is frequently parsed on a per 60 rather than raw numbers basis, but the relationships remain the same, e.g. Goals/60 / Shots/60 will yield the exact same Shooting Percentage as Goals / Shots. (At least it will when Gabe fixes the formula. :)

    LT: Too right. I especially appreciate that he's open to user feedback.

  96. mc79hockey says:

    Shame about Vic's site. He's sort of the ghost of the Oilers fan sites.

    I'm still thinking the Oil are under .500 by the time I make it back to North America. It's been bizarre getting up here and finding that the games are just finished.

    Can't imagine travelling pre-internet – I'm going to watch part of Pedro's start tonight and remember 2004.

  97. Bruce says:

    Tyler: It's a shame about your site at the moment. It's been down for 2 days. Wazzup?

  98. mc79hockey says:

    It's working for me here. Cosh said it worked for him. Still nothing?

  99. kris says:

    Love the Magnum PS updates, LT.

    MPS is at 6 goals in 14 games, or 0.43 goals/game.

    In his 19 and 20 year old seasons in the SEL, Forsberg scored at a rate of about 0.52 goals/game.

    MPS isn't Forsberg, but unless he's getting really lucky, he's looking damn solid in a tough, tough league.

  100. spOILer says:

    MPS is almost doing a Pavel Chekov imitaton up there on the top right. Any truth to the rumour he's attending the Halloween bash in the bridge officers' uni?

    Good numbers for MPS and he could pull even with Forsberg over the long haul.

    Peter was .590 GPG though just as a 19 yr old, and Magnum PS is also way way off on a PPG basis.

    Is Zimmer on the Yankees bench this year? Is he still alive?

    I can remember my buddy howling when he came out of the dugout, "WTF? That's Zimmer, what's he going to do? Senile Pedro to death?"

  101. Lowetide says:

    kris: I'm workng on a comp list for MPS that will be up when the Top 20 rolls in.

    One of the good comps I'm looking at right now is a Finn who played in Sweden: Tomas Sandstrom.

  102. spOILer says:

    MC,

    Your site has been displaying like a text-only version to my browser the past few days. I think Pat has your status as "deported".

  103. Lowetide says:

    I'm no Don Zimmer fan and loved Pedro's pitching (he helped me win in roto ball one year) but that thing he did was shameful.

    If my son ever did something that truly awful, there'd be more hell than a little bit.

  104. spOILer says:

    LT,

    I can remember at the time wondering in my head whether Zimmer was deliberately bringing the shame by it being him leading the charge.

    I never had no problems with Zimmer, seems like he's been everywhere. Pedro had some interesting comments about the Zimmer charge in the paper today, but wasn't asked the hard questions.

    But damn it was a sight to see at the time. Legendary.

  105. Schitzo says:

    Tyler: Still nothing for me, either.

  106. spOILer says:

    And I think I might have to pop down to the local and watch a couple of innings while bolstering myself for the possible nightmare that lurking after.

  107. mc79hockey says:

    Thanks everyone – I'll email my ISP.

    As for Zimmer – he ran at the guy. You run out at someone on the field, you can expect that sort of shit to happen. Pedro didn't put the boots to him or anything.

  108. rickibear says:

    If my son ever did something that truly awful, there'd be more hell than a little bit.

    Lt: you seem like a good parent.
    I think you child would be a good enough coach to know that interfering with a player is the most disgraceful thing you can do in sport.

    To target another teams player. Why not just grab a bat and hit him with it Don. Embarrasing.

  109. shepso says:

    @Dennis-I know this is several hours late, but well, school… Anyhoo, you're absolutely freakin dead on about Sons of Anarchy. Beyond it being really badass, the obvious allusions to Hamlet and the fact that one of my favorite actors from deadwood is playing a wonderfully similar role in it, they don't gloss over the actual anarchist theory in the overtones of the show. I mean, any time you actually have a biker guy quoting Emma Goldman, you're doing something special in my book…

    As for the game tonight, lets see how it goes. I really was disappointed on Tuesday and the lineup looks really bad on paper, but it's Detroit. We're either going to get absolutely crushed or Hemsky will put on a clinic circa 2006 (I hope).

    I don't remember who it was that mention Lidstrom sort of doing a victory lap this season and wanting to go tonight, almost just to see him play one last time. I sort of feel the same way and might have to take the long and incredibly boring drive (or train) from Kingston to Detroit for the game vs the Oilers in the winter for that very same reason. He's a beauty of a player, and always so consistent and humble. Like Stevie Y before him, his presence makes it hard to not cheer for his team when they're playing anyone but the Oilers.
    In the meantime, I hope some effort is actually in the cards for tonight's game, and perhaps a goal or four.

    BTW, that discussion of the people here as elitist and only looking at stats? What was up with that! This site has some of the most knowledgeable and diverse fans/writers on the sphere, and it is a constant joy to be a semi-regular contributor to this community, even when the chicken-littles are ruling the roost. This is and has always been one of the most inclusive spaces I have been a part of; there's no elitism here, just real passionate hockey people. The elitist blog is my blog, where we rarely discuss anything that has anything to do with hockey. BCB's theoretical defencemen series? Me ranting about foucault in relation to MacT? That is elitism… And I loved it…

    Go Oilers

  110. Bruce says:

    Tyler: I keep getting "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage". More importantly, Dennis made a remark that he was unable to upload the scoring chances from Tuesday night's game.

  111. Lowetide says:

    Unless I'm mis-remembering (which is a great word) Zimmer ran at Martinez, who did the ole and then helped the old man flip and flail and generally make a fool of himself.

    If he never laid a hand on him, I'm wrong. But if Pedro Martinez ducked out of the way and then laid one hand on Zimmer then he's an assclown.

  112. Bruce says:

    LT: Zimmer charged the mound, Pedro stepped to one side, put both his hands on Zimmer's dome, and threw him down. It was a shameful display by both, especially Martinez, though it was Zimmer who demonstrated true remorse.

    Although I have to admit I laughed the first time I saw it. Hard to believe a septuagenarian got to that mound before any of the millionaires.

  113. mc79hockey says:

    If he never laid a hand on him, I'm wrong. But if Pedro Martinez ducked out of the way and then laid one hand on Zimmer then he's an assclown.

    Yeah, Pedro certainly helped him down. Zim's a big boy though. If Pedro had made a single move at him, I would have agreed with you but, given that he didn't, I'm inclined to think he acted appropriately.

  114. PDO says:

    More than a few fans are saying Horcoff is going to "ruin" the Hemsky/Penner line.

    Christ.

    Does anyone have any of Coach's links to how those guys have performed?

    Past that, any low calorie drink suggestions (of the alcoholic kind, that is), that don't involve Vodka? I'm just fine with diet cola…

  115. Lowetide says:

    Southern comfort, that's low cal. Bacardi, get the white there's no calories at all.

  116. shepso says:

    PDO-Gin and diet tonic with a twist? I don't know from low calorie drinks anymore. I used to be a vodka/soda guy but I seem to have moved into a nothing but scotch phase, which is ridiculous given that I'm a PhD student with zero money ever, making for a really expensive and stupid habit.

  117. PDO says:

    Rum's not loaded with sugar? Good to know, thanks LT…

  118. Bruce says:

    Does anyone have any of Coach's links to how those guys have performed?

    PDO: All four parts of Derek's "Amicus Brief" are combined here.

  119. rickibear says:

    Lt: I have run three times a day and been in the gym twice a day to play for my country. If a fat boy like zimmer comes at me with his intentions my fist is in his voice box.

    Pedro showed the most honorable act. Baseballhas alleways had race issues.

    old fat white man attacks pedro. Who is the disgrace.

  120. Bruce says:

    I seem to have moved into a nothing but scotch phase, which is ridiculous given that I'm a PhD student with zero money ever, making for a really expensive and stupid habit.

    Shepso: That's one of the problems with being a student. You learn.

    Mmmm … Scotch. Good choice. My second favourite (after Irish :).

  121. Bruce says:

    Rickibear: Due respect, I think that episode was more personal than racial. (@Pedro, not @Hispanics)

    That said, Zimmer's actions certainly were shameful. His subsequent abject apology was one of the saddest things I've ever seen in sport. It makes me tear up just to think of it.

  122. Lowetide says:

    riki: I don't see it as a race issue at all. It's an age issue, if anything. Zimmer made a fool of himself the moment he left the dugout, that's not in question.

    The question is apparently about what is the proper amount of force required to down an 80-year old man. I'm clearly in the minority, but would suggest the answer is "none at all."

  123. shepso says:

    Bruce, what are your whiskeys of choice, scotch or irish? I'm always looking for new ideas. Lately I've been enjoying the Macallan 12 a lot and of course the Oban. For Irish I like Redbreast quite a bit, and it's a helluva lot cheaper than either scotch.

    Mmm, scotch. I'm going to have one right now I think, get myself warmed up for the game.

  124. geowal says:

    Gilbert + Chorney
    Grebs + Smid
    Strudwick + Peckham

    Aside from Strudwick we are looking at the potential D line up in a couple years from now. I know it's Detroit but what's it say if we're terrified of the outcome? Time to find out how long from now that will be…

  125. Bruce says:

    Shepso: Nothing too adventurous on the Irish front, Bushmills or Jamesons for the most part. Bush offers a variety of products … the 10-year old single malt is not bad, nor is the Black Bush.

    I've been trying a few different brands of Scotch in recent years, find I really am liking Islay single malts: Bowmore, Bruichladdich, Lagavulin to name three. Peaty … mmmmm.

    I'm far from a heavy drinker, though … will nurse an ounce of whisky for quite awhile, always neat, lots o' ice water on the side.

  126. hunter1909 says:

    Bruce: They did experiments with monkeys, giving them single malt whiskey then cheap grain(blended) whisky.

    The monkeys who drank the single malt were happy, the ones who drank the blended started fighting.

  127. geowal says:

    The monkeys who drank the single malt were happy, the ones who drank the blended started fighting.

    Cause it angers up the blood!

  128. PDO says:

    Ruutu finally dropped the mittens.

    C'mon Downie. Finish him.

  129. Bruce says:

    Ruutu v. Downie: What's not to like? Just keep feeding 'em, both of you.

  130. shepso says:

    Bruce, yeah the Jamesons is quite nice and the Lagavulin is (other than Oban) my favorite scotch of all time. I really like the peaty Isley malts. The only problem the Lag presents is its $130 price tag in these parts. The bottles I have at the moment I managed to coerce from the restaurant/bar I worked at back in Edmonton at wholesale cost. It's the only reason I could afford to drink them. I'll take an $80 bottle of oban any time it finds its way to me!
    If you like the Bushmill black, I really think you should give the redbreast a go.

    I too tend to nurse an ounce or two at the most. On occasion I'll drink it to get drunk, but mostly I just enjoy the soothing burn that one or two drinks provide.

    I'll give the Bowmore a go the next time I buy a bottle. Is there a particular age that you go with?

  131. Dennis says:

    Ty: I can still load your site but my log in isn't working and that's why I haven't put up the results from Tues night's game.

    LT: I'm with you on the Pedro vs Zimmer; and that should hold a bit of weight considering how much I love Pedro.

    Maybe it's because I was raised by grandparents and had to see parental units aging a lot earlier than most of the folks here but I just felt pity for Zimmer seeing him charge out there. The guy didn't do the right thing by charging Pedro but it wasn't left he was deft enough to catch Pedro:) so Martinez should've stepped aside and Never laid hands on him.

    Shep: there's only one other slightly undiscovered show on TV right now that's better than SOA and that's Breaking Bad.

    Everyone should check that out.

  132. doritogrande says:

    No McGuire! There is a god!

  133. shepso says:

    All over breaking bad. It's pretty stellar. Never did I ever think that the dude who played Tim Watley, the man who gave us Anti-Dentite something so intense.

    My top three at the moment are Breaking Bad, SOA, and Californication. As a writer, Duchovney's character has become the person I want to be if I don't grow up.

  134. geowal says:

    Sweet!

  135. doritogrande says:

    We're in Blue, right?

    Holy shit.

  136. Lowetide says:

    See! Jacques can score, you just need to give him time. And several swipes!

  137. shepso says:

    WOOOOOOO GOAL!!!! CRAZY TRAIN!!!!

  138. Cory Klein says:

    What happened I blacked out.

  139. Steven says:

    Awesome, but what a brutal shot by Brule.

  140. PDO says:

    Could Brule have taken a WORSE shot there?

  141. Bar Qu says:

    A sign of the end of times? Jacques scoring? What's next – good defensive play?

  142. PDO says:

    Apparently running Oiler players in the numbers or without the puck isn't a penalty this year…

  143. Cory Klein says:

    Love that from Peckham, he even intimidated me a bit there.

  144. doritogrande says:

    Anyone else notice that Brule was going to shoot wide on the open net if Howard doesn't try and channel the inner Dominick Hasek? Lucky that Jacques was jhonny on the spot.

    That's a hell of a step up on Gagner. Good on Peckham for stepping in.

  145. geowal says:

    nice pk by cogliano there

  146. Lowetide says:

    too many men. That old chestnut.

  147. Phil says:

    So as of right now, there are 8 Oilers at +1 after that goal, according to the boxscore…

  148. hunter1909 says:

    Oilers look good tonight. Then Peckham gets sent off, now too many men, which I thought left town with MacT.

    Blimey.

  149. doritogrande says:

    I've really missed Ray Ferraro.

    It's nice to have a knowledgable colour guy.

  150. doritogrande says:

    How the hell did Gagner get on the PK with Moreau?

  151. doritogrande says:

    WOOO St. Andrews reference!

  152. Steven says:

    Man, Mac's gotta do something with that puck. Of course, the other two guys were standing right beside him.

  153. hunter1909 says:

    Oilers have really been developing individual poise this season. When they get the puck, they don't panic anymore.

    It's a really good sign for the future.

  154. doritogrande says:

    Dustin Penner doing his best impression of Justin Morneau.

  155. hunter1909 says:

    Big P.

  156. doritogrande says:

    Horcoff gets a stat!

  157. PDO says:

    Horpensky strikes.

    Whoydathunkit?

  158. uni says:

    Nice hand eye there. There's no possible way Penner keeps this pace up…no possible way.

  159. shepso says:

    I think it's those vintage Unis that make them play better. I have no basis for making this claim in the slightest, but I just feel as though the ghosts of champions past just live inside those oldschool threads.

    GO DP!!

  160. uni says:

    Would people stop calling Penner the "Big Pee". I can think of at least one thing really wrong with that moniker.

  161. uni says:

    So, Horpensky and the Kid line are both back together. Who saw that happening a dozen games in?

  162. hunter1909 says:

    I'm extremely happy to announce, the Wings are finished as a contender.

  163. Lowetide says:

    How about the big Piss?

  164. doritogrande says:

    I understand that TSN is by no means affiliated with the NHL in any way, but how can they have a Chevrolet sponsored promotion (shoot for a million) when Honda is the official car company of the NHL?

    You'd think that would have thrown up some red flags over at Honda HQ.

  165. uni says:

    I like Pisscutter myself.

    Also on a side note, when you're 6'3" and 220lbs plus, and you get stripped of the puck and made to look silly by a hobbit, you may have to give your head a shake.

  166. doritogrande says:

    HOLY SHIT!

    Did they trade jerseys after the pregame skate FFS?

    Hemsky!

  167. geowal says:

    So horpensky is a good line huh?

    Funny that.

  168. Garth says:

    The mind boggles.

  169. danny says:

    The irony of hockey nicknames, is that if he was called Penwick or Pennington, we would unanimously settle on the name Penner.

  170. doritogrande says:

    So? Horcoff off the schnide?

    2 assists.

  171. PDO says:

    So uh..

    The first game the Oilers are going to actually legitimately out chance the opposition is a game against Detroit with half the team in the sick bay and Visnovsky and Souray both out of the line up?

    I'm not complaining, but?

  172. uni says:

    Not necessarily, he might be called Penny. That wouldn't be a bad thing, as guys with names like Wendel or Connie somehow end up tough as nails, funny that.

  173. hunter1909 says:

    uni: Sorry but it's the big P.

    And that's it.

  174. doritogrande says:

    when you're 6'3" and 220lbs plus, and you get stripped of the puck and made to look silly by a hobbit, you may have to give your head a shake.

    Brilliant. I'm still laughing.

  175. danny says:

    Sloth?
    Chunk?

    Good ol Goonies.

    Megatron? :)

  176. bookie says:

    Ok, so its kind of funny for me (an admitted Oiler optimist) to magically disappear for 3 games (I presume the Oilers totally kicked ass in all three) and then return to the LT scene when the Oil are up 3-0.

    Anyway, I haven't read the last week or so's threads (been massively bogged down in work – maybe a good week to have so much work that I couldn't even watch hockey), but clearly the pessimists scored some points over the past week.

    Anyway, in my blind optimism approach to the Oilers this year, I blame all of the Oilers problems on the flu and am still predicting 6th place.

    When I get a chance I will go back and read the threads from the last week so that I can experience the pain through all of your words….

  177. doritogrande says:

    Anyone want to place a bet against Detroit picking up one of the Islanders' surplus goalies before the trade deadline? I'd be happy to take money from your pockets.

  178. Woodguy says:

    So this is what the Oilers look like after the first full day of practice in a week.

    Keep practicing please.

    Uncle Katz should pay Ferraro twice what TSN is paying him to do color for every Oiler game on every network. (Somehow force every network to use him)

    He explains the game than anyone and gives you a true pro's eye on the game.

  179. hunter1909 says:

    NOW i know where I saw Quinn's suit.

    At Ford's Theatre, the night Lincoln was assassinated.

  180. Steve says:

    NOW i know where I saw Quinn's suit.

    At Ford's Theatre, the night Lincoln was assassinated.

    That's the best thing you've ever said.

  181. danny says:

    That is a large nose Mr Horcoff.

  182. PDO says:

    MacT is awesome.

  183. Woodguy says:

    Nothing but class from MacT on Penner.

  184. danny says:

    lol… Cogs halloween costume… Dany Heatley

  185. Bar Qu says:

    I missed it – what did MacT say? (children, bathroom help, etc.)

  186. doritogrande says:

    Very good praise from MacT on Penner. Even defended the big man's play when Duthie was digging into him. Even took some of the blame for the way Dustin Penner was handled last year.

    Hoping he finds a nice job in the South.

  187. pboy says:

    I was leading the charge to see MacT relieved of his coaching duties last season but I'll be the first to admit the guy is a class act and a pretty decent commentator. A lot of nice things to see about the Big M and he seemed genuine.

    I didn't notice Nilsson doing much of anything but I have always liked Cogs on the wing with Gagner and hopefully those two are kept together for a awhile and maybe St. Fernando can join them as soon as next game.

    I'm a huge Sox fan and Pedro has been one of my favorite players for the last 15 years but he looked like an asshole when he threw Zimmer to the ground. There was no excuse for it at the time and no matter how much spin Pedro tries now, it still stunk.

  188. geowal says:

    Once again Bob Mackenzie shows himself to be the best commentator in hockey.

  189. SK Oiler Fan says:

    I know, I said I wasn't watching this game, but flipped it on to see 3-0 Oil. Have to see what's changed now.

    Mac T is a natural in front of the camera. If an NHL team comes knocking I hope TSN matches whatever they're offering.

    I'm betting the TSN gig was floated to him before he was terminated by the Oil.

    Great combination of humour and honesty without going over the top ala Doug Mclean.

  190. doritogrande says:

    I've got a headchecking penalty for you.

    It's called Interference, Mr. Keith Primeau.

  191. Jonathan Willis says:

    MacT on 08-09 Penner:

    "I'm certainly to blame, and I'll take some of the blame. I just won't take it all."

  192. SK Oiler Fan says:

    I know, I said I wasn't watching this game, but flipped it on to see 3-0 Oil. Have to see what's changed now.

    Mac T is a natural in front of the camera. If an NHL team comes knocking I hope TSN matches whatever they're offering.

    I'm betting the TSN gig was floated to him before he was terminated by the Oil.

    Great combination of humour and honesty without going over the top ala Doug Mclean.

  193. Black Dog says:

    well that was fun

    Oilers back to being the Oilers, outshot and a little luck, but value for the lead, goaltending is part if the game and Khabi has been solid, Howard pretty meh, although Jacques and Penner weren't even touched, or ineffectively anyway

    Grebs also was suffering from the flu, I think that what we are going to get is more like the first nine than the last three games, quite a bit more jump tonight

    interesting as to whether the Wings are regressing or if its a hangover or if its just the whack of new guys but they don't look very impressive

    Chorney looks ok still and Theo is a bit of chaos but the game will slow down for him

    apparently they just need to rotate centres on that line, maybe Cogs should be next?

    And LT, not sure if you've caught any of the game, last I looked he was in line for the loss but Pedro has been brilliant, good stuff

  194. PunjabiOil says:

    In an NHL season, you will win 25 games just because, and you will lose 25 games just because. It's what you do in the remaining 32 games that will decide if you're left standing in April.

  195. Bruce says:

    First period faceoffs:

    Horcoff 3/5, 60%
    Rest of team 2/13, 15%

  196. Dennis says:

    Cory Klein: I loved your quip on 49's intimidation:)

    DG: good call. but how much cap room do they have available to take on Roli or Biron?

    Shep: I like Hank Moody but the story's veering to the point where it's no longer believable. I don't mind Moody being a formidable cocksman but the last ep swayed it big time. I'm still watching but it's now gone into the Entourage pile: good for a chuckle but not in the least intellectually nutritious:)

    As for the game, don't look now but this is the third game in a row where we've had chances occur because of 22's forecheck. He was a part of a couple of chances on Sunday night and then on Tues night him and 67 and 12 had some chem going.

    Anyway, I had the chances at 8-4 and the only bad part of that period was Khabby's awful rebound control.

  197. Showerhead says:

    Bar qu: Penner is doing all of the right things, playing a passionate game, going to the net, etc. MacT will happily take some blame for Penner's problems last year but not all of it. Penner's play and leadership is a big part of Edmonton's fast start this season. Probably tries harder when he knows MacT is on the panel ;)

    MacT handled it very classily IMO.

    As for the game, I have no idea what to say. Bizarro world. I'm fully expecting an A+ on my Environmental Policy and Law Exam now as well. Hope this gets Horcoff going a bit – he's playing great on the pk but when he carries it I still see tentativity (sic). (PS: can anyone help a grammar enjoyer out? is sic reserved for quoted mistakes or can I use it here?)

    Andrew Cogliano has won me over with his Halloween costume again. I might remove the "Baseball" label out of love if not for good play. Doesn't look like he can take a pass right now but hey when Gagner threw it over to him Cogliano was probably shocked as shit to see someone with an 8 on his jersey pass the puck.

  198. Showerhead says:

    and PDO: great link, thanks for the read. Would say more but the game's back on :)

  199. doritogrande says:

    Sweet. Got the call to play against my summer ultimate team tonight. Gonna go get a little sibling rivalry on in half an hour.

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