G50 Avalanche at Oilers

Despite injury and chaos, young Jordan Eberle remains one of the top 20 scorers in the NHL. That’s walking in high cotton for any Oiler, and the events of October 7, 2010 through today all have an Eberle stamp on them for Oiler fans. The trick is to do it again.

I believe this is a huge month for the franchise and the transactions will have enormous impact on the future. We know Steve Tambellini is about to get a contract and we also know (based on reports) there’s a lot of blood in the water about Ales Hemsky. Some pretty famous hockey people have also mentioned Sam Gagner, Andy Sutton and Theo Peckham as possibles so there could be a lot of turnover between now and the 1st of March.

Eberle is on track for a 30-goal season, Hall is right in the area and RNH can still push for the Calder if he can get back soon. Sam Gagner is “in the range” for another 40 point season, so he can be productive and be called a bust again in the summer. I like the future up front with the three kids, Gagner and Hemsky. Get one of the Borg to play 2line LW and that’s a nice set of six.

Oilers are at home where they play fairly well (12-8-3) for a basement team but they are playing Colorado and that’s a problem. The Avs are a good team (holy hell what a future) but the Oilers only play well against the truly good times like Vancouver or San Jose. I kid, but only a little.

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150 Responses to "G50 Avalanche at Oilers"

  1. Jordan says:

    Sorry LT – I’d love to post that I’m having problems logging in, but unfortunately, I’m having problems logging in, and can’t post it.

    I Keed.

    So, before the ASG weekend, Dubnyk goes out in back to backs, against two of the very best in the NHL. Gets 3 of 4 points available, and carries the team through both games. Gotta be a big up arrow, doesn’t it?

    In Renney’s presser yesterday he stated that it would be reasonable to try to start Dubnyk a fair bit over the remaining 33 to help figure out what the team has in their young netminder.

    Based on my understanding of these things, Goalies are voodoo and evaluating them is a little like throwing darts while drinking. So since there are others out there who better understand them, my questions are:

    What does Devan need to do to be considered the de-facto #1 next year?

    Is that what is expected of him for the rest of the season?

    Is that realistic?

    What happens if he fails to meet those expectations?

  2. pboy says:

    I didn’t have any issues logging in LT.

    If I was running this organization, Dubnyk would play in 24 of the next 33 with Khabi spot starting the other 8. They need to figure out exactly who Dubnyk is and the only way that is going to happen, is to play him and play him in all situations. I have no doubt that this won’t happen.

  3. "Steve Smith" says:

    If I was running this organization, Dubnyk would play in 24 of the next 33 with Khabi spot starting the other 8.

    I do not think that “8″ means what you think that it means.

  4. Jordan says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    If I was running this organization, Dubnyk would play in 24 of the next 33 with Khabi spot starting the other 8.

    I do not think that “8″ means what you think that it means.

    As the Germans would say: “NEIN!”

  5. peeps says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    If I was running this organization, Dubnyk would play in 24 of the next 33 with Khabi spot starting the other 8.

    I do not think that “8″ means what you think that it means.

    With the coach showing a propensity for pulling the goalie earlier than necessary, maybe we only need a goalie for 32 games worth of minutes…
    w

  6. Henry says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    Hall could be good for one?

  7. johnnyshaka says:

    Haven’t posted in a bit. Like the look of the new site but I have to say the white type on dark background is tough on the eyes. Am I the only one?

    Anyway, Cornet called up per Twitter.

  8. danny says:

    HAL just added a ‘like’ button. Says he wanted to acknowledge Jordans pun, without committing to an entire comment.

    HAL says white text on dark isnt ideal for quick scanning, but people complain more about lower contrast. Black on white is generally preferred but actually is more conducive to eye strain.

    HAL says someday we will find the right balance.

    HAL says today isn’t that day.

  9. danny says:

    danny:
    HAL just added a ‘like’ button. Says he wanted to acknowledge Jordans pun, without committing to an entire comment.

    HAL says white text on dark isnt ideal for quick scanning, but people complain more about lower contrast. Black on white is generally preferred but actually is more conducive to eye strain.

    HAL says someday we will find the right balance.

    HAL says today isn’t that day.

    The ‘like’ warmed the cold capacitors of HAL’s central processing unit and he found it within himself to offer LT’s humanoid compatriots an opportunity to offer input on which color scheme is best suited to mortal eyes.

    http://i43.tinypic.com/16iz32x.jpg

  10. johnnyshaka says:

    Either the blue or grey would be worlds better than the white.

    Thanks. :)

  11. nathan says:

    Hall is so out of here if Renney survives a whole game without a tender.

  12. nathan says:

    danny,

    Just ask HAL to stay with lots of contrast (like wob or bow) for mobile users.

    And why does HAL remember the archive posts as having comments and not having comments?

  13. Traktor says:

    Ganger ranks,

    106th in Average forward PP minutes per game
    136th is Average forward 5×5 minutes per game
    161st in points per game

    Gagner isn’t productive given his time on ice. He isn’t a bust but he certainly isn’t a player that helps win games.

    Gagner is tied for 286th in goals per game when only taking into account forwards. F O D D E R

  14. spoiler says:

    Danny, can you do something about the size of the comment box we type in? Even with my mobile sideways (widescreen) it is far larger than the phone’s screen size. It’s runnin Android OS. Thx.

  15. Woodguy says:

    Phillipe Cornet called up as per Spector tweet

  16. danny says:

    spoiler:
    Danny, can you do something about the size of the comment box we type in?Even with my mobile sideways (widescreen) it is far larger than the phone’s screen size. It’s runnin Android OS.Thx.

    Does this work better?

  17. Jordan says:

    danny,

    Blue. Definitely the Blue.

  18. russ99 says:

    Any idea when RNH will be back? We have to be pretty close to his expected return date.

  19. danny says:

    russ99,

    He’s apparently missing tonight due to the flu. Lets hope its not the Gilbert Brule flu.

  20. hunter1909 says:

    “Gagner…F O D D E R”

    There goes Traktor again…pimping Horcoff by obstrufication.

  21. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: 106th in Ave

    Given that there are 90 “1st line forward” in the NHL, you are saying that Gagner is a 2nd line forward then?

    As the 2nd line C on the 29th place team, is every rating over 174 a win?

  22. SK Oiler Fan says:

    There’s an Oiler game tonight? I thought this was a 7 of 9 vs. T’PAL hotness faceoff.
    I vote for 7 of 9.

  23. IceDragoon says:

    I had no problem logging in, but it took a little longer for the page to load and I still don’t know what the first picture is.
    edit – yup… It’s still trying.

    I see that you’ve added “like” points to your comment section.
    Really?!?
    Where’s the “thumb down” for the comments we think are shyte?

    I know that I’m just a guest here and that my preferences mean nothing. That said, I’m a big fan of KISS (keep it simple, stupid). I would prefer Lowetide.ca regularly opening in a timely fashion to having a popularity contest in the comments. Content over gimmicks, please.

    ……

    I don’t know how Dennis gets through every game. Thanks to Renney, I can no longer watch the shifts directly after PKs, PPs, goals for and goals against, along with most opening shifts. The curse jar was emptying my wallet. There are still plenty of shifts for me to swear at throughout the game, but by eliminating the ones stated above, at least I get a false sense of balance.

  24. Ribs says:

    I’ll give a thumbs down to the Like Button as well. Seems like unecessary clutter.

  25. danny says:

    IceDragoon:
    I had no problem logging in, but it took a little longer for the page to load and I still don’t know what the first picture is.
    edit – yup… It’s still trying.

    I see that you’ve added “like” points to your comment section.
    Really?!?
    Where’s the “thumb down” for the comments we think are shyte?

    I know that I’m just a guest here and that my preferences mean nothing. That said, I’m a big fan of KISS (keep it simple, stupid). I would prefer Lowetide.ca regularly opening in a timely fashion to having a popularity contest in the comments. Content over gimmicks, please.

    ……

    I don’t know how Dennis gets through every game. Thanks to Renney, I can no longer watch the shifts directly after PKs, PPs, goals for and goals against, along with most opening shifts. The curse jar was emptying my wallet. There are still plenty of shifts for me to swear at throughout the game, but by eliminating the ones stated above, at least I get a false sense of balance.

    I added the ‘like’ thing, not LT. If people would rather it not here, then its easily removed.

    I see the image problem, but its unrelated to the ‘like’ and im not sure whats happening yet. Most likely a server hiccup.

  26. hunter1909 says:

    How about a “like” button for oilers management?

  27. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: Given that there are 90 “1st line forward” in the NHL, you are saying that Gagner is a 2nd line forward then?

    As the 2nd line C on the 29th place team, is every rating over 174 a win?

    No, I’m not saying that, and I hope you aren’t arguing that either because that is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen. Only looking at Time on ice would mean Horcoff is the 10th best center in the league because he averages the 10th most minutes or that Taylor Chorney in a real NHL defensemen because he played in the NHL this year. You can do better than that.

    If Gagner ranks 161 in points per game and there is 180 top 6 forwards then that would mean 89% of top 6 fowards are better than Gagner in terms of points and that doesn’t even take into account that Gagner has a limited range of skills. He doesn’t PK, he doesn’t play physical, he doesn’t shut down other top lines. F O D D E R

    Back to my original point though, if TIME ON ICE is looked at as an investment then a players production can be looked at as the return.

    Gagner ranks 106th in Average forward PP minutes per game
    Gagner ranks 136th is Average forward 5×5 minutes per game

    **** Gagner ranks 161st in points per game ****

    Gagner is a poor return on the TOI investment so calling him productive is nonsense. Again, this doesn’t even factor in that Gagner has a limited range of skills.

  28. Ribs says:

    Tencer’s lineup…

    Hall – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Cornet – Gagner – Eberle
    Smyth – Belanger – Jones
    Eager – Lander – Petrell

    Smid – Petry
    Whitney – Potter
    Sutton – Peckham

    Dubnyk

    I’m interested in seeing if Cornet can keep up at an NHL pace. I watched him a bit during the AHL All Star festivities and he does have one heck of a shot. If he can skate to the right places, he may have something there. He did look a little slow.

  29. Traktor says:

    I don’t mind the like button. I don’t see the harm.

  30. danny says:

    Well.. apparently IceDragoon has a 6th sense.

    Despite my claim to the contrary just a couple posts ago, for some random reason that makes no sense to me, the ‘like’ button was actually causing the featured images problem. Why the like button cause these images to not load is beyond me, but you cant argue with results.

    The like button is D.O.A.

  31. Traktor says:

    Nice to see Cornet put into scoring role.

  32. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: No, I’m not saying that, and I hope you aren’t arguing that either because that is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen. Only looking at Time on ice would mean Horcoff is the 10th best center in the league because he averages the 10th most minutes or that Taylor Chorney in a real NHL defensemen because he played in the NHL this year. You can do better than that.

    If Gagner ranks 161 in points per game and there is 180 top 6 forwards then that would mean 89% of top 6 fowards are better than Gagner in terms of points and that doesn’t even take into account that Gagner has a limited range of skills. He doesn’t PK, he doesn’t play physical, he doesn’t shut down other top lines. F O D D E R

    Back to my original point though, if TIME ON ICE is looked at as an investment then a players production can be looked at as the return.

    Gagner ranks 106th in Average forward PP minutes per game
    Gagner ranks 136th is Average forward 5×5 minutes per game

    **** Gagner ranks 161st in points per game ****

    Gagner is a poor return on the TOI investment so calling him productive is nonsense. Again, this doesn’t even factor in that Gagner has a limited range of skills.

    So how much are you weighting PP TOI vs 5v5 TOI? 50% each to get where his production should be?

    Honesly curious.

    If a guy has 40th PPTOI and 150th 5v5TOI should his p/g be 95th?

    I think PP TOI should get a heavier weighting since intuitively PP pts/min should be significantly higher and if the metic you use for return is pts/g,

    Really, there should be 2 metrics, one for 5v5 and one for 5v4 because both have value, but its different and 5v4TOI isn’t as evenly spread as 5v5 TOI. If you are looking at 5v4TOI, but pts/gm it throws it out of whack given the 5v4 TOI disparity , but similarity in games played.

    Thoughts?

  33. Woodguy says:

    danny:
    Well.. apparently IceDragoon has a 6th sense.

    Despite my claim to the contrary just a couple posts ago, for some random reason that makes no sense to me, the ‘like’ button was actually causing the featured images problem. Why the like button cause these images to not load is beyond me, but you cant argue with results.

    The like button is D.O.A.

    Two thumbs up.

  34. art vandelay says:

    White type on dark background. Not cool.
    Grey type on dark background. Very not cool.
    Why make it so hard for people to enjoy this site?

  35. jake70 says:

    Danny, interesting picture, I have seen that before. My own fault, couldn’t get the wordpress and gravitar thing to work to upload that picture I had at the old site. Oh well, snooze ya lose.

  36. hunter1909 says:

    $5.5 million dollar man Horcoff handed 1st line duties, LMAO.

    Just for that insult to anything to do with icing a winning hockey team, go Avalanche. 10-0 would be nice.

    And to everyone who says I’m not a real fan…hands up – I’ve managed to troll this team ever since 2000.

  37. cabbiesmacker says:

    Jordan:

    Based on my understanding of these things, Goalies are voodoo and evaluating them is a little like throwing darts while drinking.

    People throw darts WITHOUT drinking? What a novel concept. And here I figured beer was Gatorade for the British.

  38. ohhell says:

    Danny:

    How tough would it be to employ the colors from the old Lowetide blog? I thought they were much easier on the eye.

  39. ohhell says:

    I also think that Tractor has outlined some interesting numbers re: Gagner’s performance. Although one could argue the relative weights of PP time vs. 5×5 time vs. PK time, the numbers show that Gagner is lagging in all categories. Interesting perspective. Without including QoC and QoT metrics it can also be misleading, however I must confess I am surprised by the numbers.

    That said, had we looked at these numbers a month ago they would have been a whole lot worse, so perhaps in another month they will be that much better. Time will tell. Not sure if F O D D E R is the appropriate descriptor. Perhaps S L O W S T A R T.

  40. cabbiesmacker says:

    Ribs:
    Tencer’s lineup…

    Hall – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Cornet – Gagner – Eberle
    Smyth – Belanger – Jones
    Eager – Lander – Petrell

    Well thank God we slotted all that offensive acumen between Hall and Hemsky cuz…..nm. I can rest easy now.

    How much better does that lineup look with Horcoff centering 94 and 28 and a REAL #1C between two REAL first line scorers?

  41. bendelson says:

    I haven’t seen this discussed here so I’ll throw it out there – at some point during the next three weeks some org. Is going to make a trade for Bishop in St. Louis.

    Should it be Tambo?

    Does having a couple of giant goalies, both seemingly on the verge of long NHL careers make sense?
    Are we past DD and a veteran?

    The idea of a couple of early 20′s goalies fighting for the net seems to make sense to me given where the Oilers are at.

  42. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: So how much are you weighting PP TOI vs 5v5 TOI?50% each to get where his production should be?

    Honesly curious.

    If a guy has 40th PPTOI and 150th 5v5TOI should his p/g be 95th?

    I think PP TOI should get a heavier weighting since intuitively PP pts/min should be significantly higher and if the metic you use for return is pts/g,

    Really, there should be 2 metrics, one for 5v5 and one for 5v4 because both have value, but its different and 5v4TOI isn’t as evenly spread as 5v5 TOI.If you are looking at 5v4TOI, but pts/gm it throws it out of whack given the 5v4 TOI disparity , but similarity in games played.

    Thoughts?

    I’m not sure. Your way probably makes some sense though.

    My metric isn’t great but enough to show that Gagner isn’t very productive and a negative return on our investment.

    If an NHL team was scouting him and tracked 50/50 battles won/lost, forced turnovers (pressure leading to the other team making mistakes), and turnovers/scoring chances created ratio I think they would be turned off rather quickly.

  43. spoiler says:

    Hi, Danny. Thanks, but sorry, no, that’s still a ways bigger than the phone’s screen.

    Really looking forward to seeing Cornet play tonight.

  44. spoiler says:

    Yeah, the grey on black quotes are really tough to read. Funnily, when I type in the comment box on my desktop, it’s also grey on black, but it’s black on white on my phone, which is nice. Unfortunately, on the phone, as I’ve said, the box is much bigger than the phone screen, requiring constant scrolling horizontally, back and forth.

  45. rickithebear says:

    Last blog post Made me wonder: with us talking about 6’2″+ forwards, Does size mater. So i looked art all the forwards that size with AHL History. A desjardins like projecting for Ahl trend became Visible.
    “”
    Thought comparing data from a 5’11″ forward to 6’3″ forwards was dumb. The RNH goal to Points ratio taught me that. Look specifically. Rather than general trend.

    When i look at 6’2″ to 6’4″ forawards.
    There are on average 2 Forwards of this size and Ahl history on each team.
    6’5″ and higher was all over the board.

    A clear, and i mean clear trend was visible.
    One outlier in 10 players. (PK specialist or Goons)

    You could see NHLE % relative PPG production vs age in the AHL.
    Age 20: 110% of Ahl total
    Age 21: 100% of AHL total
    Age 22: 70-75% of AHL totals
    Age 23: 45-55% of AHL totals.

    Age 19 turning 20 is not the time to be writing off Pitlick, Hamilton, Martindale.
    we will not trully know until ages 23.

  46. cabbiesmacker says:

    bendelson,

    Any of Bishop, Holtby, Neuvirth or Bernier would be nice additions imo. Poulin in Long Island might be another.

  47. Jordan says:

    art vandelay:
    White type on dark background. Not cool.
    Grey type on dark background. Very not cool.
    Why make it so hard for people to enjoy this site?

    Yeah, might as well go with a black type on the black background – Then LT’s page could be just as clear as the Oilers management decision-making process!

    Woodguy: So how much are you weighting PP TOI vs 5v5 TOI?50% each to get where his production should be?

    Honesly curious.

    If a guy has 40th PPTOI and 150th 5v5TOI should his p/g be 95th?

    I think PP TOI should get a heavier weighting since intuitively PP pts/min should be significantly higher and if the metic you use for return is pts/g,

    Really, there should be 2 metrics, one for 5v5 and one for 5v4 because both have value, but its different and 5v4TOI isn’t as evenly spread as 5v5 TOI.If you are looking at 5v4TOI, but pts/gm it throws it out of whack given the 5v4 TOI disparity , but similarity in games played.

    Thoughts?

    Yeah, you would need to look at the two separately.

    As for the argument Trak has been pushing… Look – Gagner spent a lot of time playing on Belanger’s wing, and before that some time on the 4th line as he was getting back into the lineup. Last year he had a severe laceration across the tendons in his hand. And, IN SPITE of all of that, the kid is still inside the top 180 for the league.

    Sure, it hasn’t been efficient at producing points this year. Other than Eberle and RNH, who has?
    Smyth and Horcoff have been dead cold for almost 20 games. Hemsky’s been on and off. Hall’s been out of the lineup for stretches, and the best centre and best D-man…

    The fact is that the Oilers as a team have been really bad at generating scoring 5×5. BTN has the Oilers listed as tied for 26th in the league @ 2.0 g/60 @5v5.

    That’s aweful.

    The fact that Gagner is where he is certainly contributes to this problem. But he’s no where near the worst of the players the Oilers have in this area. So why focus the argument on the player that’s is underacheiving a little from a league-wide perspective, but is doing better from a team-wide standpoint?

    On a somewhat related note: apparently the NHL is publishing A LOT more quasi-related statistical information than I was aware of about when and how a player is producing, and against who.

  48. Traktor says:

    Oilers Top 9 Forwards – Shots divided by missed shots

    RNH 3.43
    Eberle 2.91
    Hall 2.88
    Jones 2.76
    Smyth 2.52
    Belanger 2.24
    Hemsky 2.20
    Horcoff 1.88
    Gagner 1.64

    Horcoff and Gagner padding their corsi without actually accomplishing anything

  49. Traktor says:

    Edmonton top 9 forwards – Hits + Blocked shots divided by games played

    The higher number the better

    Jones 1.95
    Hall 1.35
    Horcoff 1.24
    RNH 1.10
    Smyth 1.04
    Eberle 0.97
    Belanger 0.91
    Hemsky 0.75
    Gagner 0.64

    - Hall is an absolute beast of a hockey player. So is RNH
    - Belanger has poor numbers for a prototypical 3rd line player
    - Gagner is the definition of F O D D E R

  50. Jordan says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    I agree with your selections. They have very good upside. However, I would also suggest that Danis has been at or near backup NHL calibre goaltender for most of the season.

    I’d quite like to see the Org. re-sign him next season. Having a good goalie makes a heck of a difference to winning games while developing prospects…

  51. DeadmanWaking says:

    One suspects Seven Helpings of Nine abandoned her birth pod to escape the wrath of her six senior smurfettes.

    Unfortunately for Blalock, the only thing most photographers seem to want from her is her twiggy transmission, and she abets this by receding into pinup stereotype. T’Pol works for her the same way that Arnie was a perfect fit in the original Terminator: “Just use that ‘here we go again’ look you have on when you show up for the shoot before the photographer hands you the shallow white bikini you’ve seen before. Perfect!”

    Here’s the more versatile Hathaway uncharacteristically flirting with stereotype, flaunting a sparkly pout with an anachronistic Clueless vibe. Apparently that’s what the director wanted. Pity. Ebert pens a caustically underhanded thumbs up of Becoming Jane:

    “Becoming Jane” is a movie every Janeite will want to see, although many will not approve of it. The Jane Austen in the film owes a great deal more to modern romantic fancies than to what we know about the real Jane Austen …

    Ebert concludes:

    The director [] is comfortable with the material, and it is comfortable with him. Maybe too comfortable. The coast is clear for the sequel, “What Jane Became.”

    Well, Tambi, the coast is clear. Show some flair for once—wiggle those facial spires—or it’s fade to white bikini on your short career.

  52. bookje says:

    I don’t have any problems reading any of it, maybe some of you need to eat more carrots or adjust the brightness/contrast of your screen. Or, perhaps, it could just be that some people are prone to complaining and that you can’t please all of the people all of the time.

  53. IceDragoon says:

    danny:
    Well.. apparently IceDragoon has a 6th sense.

    snip

    The like button is D.O.A.

    Hmmm… “common” has 6 letters… coincidence?

    Thanks, Danny.

  54. stevezie says:

    Maybe I’m alone, but I prefer light text on a dark screen to the inverse. Turn the lights off and compare the amount of light being sent at your eyes when the screen is mostly white compared to mostly dark; some sites it’s like starring at a lightbulb.

    Cornet is getting one helluva shot here.

  55. Traktor says:

    I don’t have any problems with the color or font either. I’m just happy nesting was abolished.

  56. IceDragoon says:

    stevezie,

    You’re not alone. My old eyes are quite content to read light grey on dark grey.

    I’ve given up trying to visit on my phone. Although, that’s between me and my android.
    ;-D

  57. Jordan says:

    bookje,

    AH! The suggestion that Eating Carrots improves your eyesight is a myth created by the British during WWII to hide their discovery of RADAR.

    From Wikipedia on Carrots:
    “An urban legend says eating large amounts of carrots will allow one to see in the dark. The legend developed from stories of British gunners in World War II, who were able to shoot down German planes in the darkness of night. The legend arose during the Battle of Britain when the RAF circulated a story about their pilots’ carrot consumption as an attempt to cover up the discovery and effective use of radar technologies in engaging enemy planes, as well as the use of red light (which does not destroy night vision) in aircraft instruments.[4][5] It reinforced existing German folklore and helped to encourage Britons—looking to improve their night vision during the blackouts—to grow and eat the vegetable.”

    ;)

    Also – good luck to Dubnyk tonight – keep the undefeated in regulation/OT streak alive!

  58. bookje says:

    Jordan,

    Yeah, that’s just what all the carrot eaters tell folks like you to keep you the dark!

  59. spoiler says:

    I prefer white on dark too, I like that choice for this site too. But why have the grey on dark for the quotes? They’re already indented and sourced, just make them the same colour.

  60. Woodguy says:

    Traktor,

    Here’s an (extreme) example of why I’m asking about weighting.

    Kovalchuk plays 5:05 5v4 TOI/gm most in the league.
    He has 14 5v4 pts in 43 games playing 219:15 5v4 TOI

    David Legwand plays 2:31 5v4 TOI/gm 128th in the league
    He has 14 5v4 pts in 46 games playing 116:10 5v4 TOI

    If we rank them by 5v4 pts/gm, they are almost identical.

    Knowing the TOI, Legwand is producing roughly twice as much as Kovy.

    I think its best to stick to these metrics in terms of pts/60 to even the playing field

    In that case Gagner is:

    5v4 TOI/60 95th among forwards
    5v4 Pts/60 101st among forwards
    About playing value there

    5v5 TOI/60 123rd among forwards
    5v5 Pts/60 202nd among forwards
    Not full value there.

    I’d also cross reference it with $ paid to find out more value information.

    I saw Kovy and Heatley’s numbers floating around Gagner’s . Lordy.

    I think its important to include $ too because being an NHL GM is an efficiency game where you need to get the most per $ to have the best chance of winning.

    Needless to say Oilers rank near last or last in that category for years running.

    They had the 7th leading scorer in the NHL on their roster for just over 1.1M and they surround him with shit.

    Not efficient.

  61. Ducey says:

    I don’t follow the Av’s much but is their future that bright?

    They have some good prospects and are way below the cap. On the other hand they have 16 UFA/RFA’s and no first or second round picks this year. They recently had all of Elliot, Shattenkirk, and Stewart – who are doing pretty well in St Louis.

  62. bookje says:

    Lt, Danny – just of a few days, could you please make the text Fuchsia on Hot Pink. Then return to the white on black.

  63. Jimmy says:

    As mainly a reader and not too often a commenter, The white on black isn’t terrible but I think that I prefer the grey. It just seems a tad easier on the eyes. My 2 cents…

  64. Jimmy says:

    bookje,

    Thanks! Now my opinion looks kinda stupid :-)

  65. sliderule says:

    I see Jonathan Willis has a column saying we shouldn’t rule out trading Pitlick and Hamilton.The argument being that they haven’t put up the offensive numbers to justify making them off limits .

    Mc79 gave all the numbers to show how the 20 year AHL scoring translates to the NHL.I don’t know if he has put enough weight on the fact that because of their late birth dates they are very young to be playing in the AHL.So far as I can find out only two other players selected with them in the second round are playing higher than junior or Europe.

    The ice time is another matter as I feel if you work hard enough you will earn it.Let’s see how the second half of the season goes before judging

  66. Ribs says:

    book¡e,

    The internet tells me that if you eat enough carrots, your skin will turn orange. What fear mongering is this???

  67. neojanus says:

    Greetings. I like the new site immensely.

    I have a question. I was catastrophically forced to move to Toronto and have seen several times on the site people asking how to catch streamed games.

    Is there a particular site that is devoted to streaming games? I’ve googled in search of these mysterious sites a few times and none seem to work right.

    Can anyone help with this? I cannot bring myself to watch the Leafs…

  68. Bruce McCurdy says:

    IceDragoon: Thanks to Renney, I can no longer watch the shifts directly after PKs, PPs, goals for and goals against, along with most opening shifts.

    If you’re looking for stress/aggravation avoidance, Louise, I’d check out for the last minute of periods too. Especially the third.

  69. Bruce McCurdy says:

    ohhell: That said, had we looked at these numbers a month ago they would have been a whole lot worse, so perhaps in another month they will be that much better. Time will tell. Not sure if F O D D E R is the appropriate descriptor. Perhaps S L O W S T A R T.

    After missing the first few games to injury, Gagner scored 2 points in 13 games, then went on a roll with18 P in 21 GP, but now just 1 in his last 8. That spells I N C O N S I S T E N T.

  70. IceDragoon says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Hahaha

    During Oilers games, I’ve learned to release stress by swearing loudly. I’ve also learned that shifts are easier to avoid if they start with a face-off.
    :-)

    ……

    NeoJanus:

    I like
    http://www.sportlemon.tv/

  71. cabbiesmacker says:

    Bruce McCurdy: After missing the first few games to injury, Gagner scored 2 points in 13 games, then wenton a roll with18 P in 21 GP, but now just 1 in his last 8. That spells I N C O N S I S T E N T.

    Perhaps if he ate more carrots?

    There are gradients of grey yes? A little brighter version of the quote print against a black background might be damn near perfect.

    Failing that I vote for Bookje’s option but only if the readers are wearing hot lime wigs.

  72. bendelson says:

    Traktor:
    Edmonton top 9 forwards – Hits + Blocked shots divided by games played

    The higher number the better

    Jones 1.95
    Hall 1.35
    Horcoff 1.24
    RNH 1.10
    Smyth 1.04
    Eberle 0.97
    Belanger 0.91
    Hemsky 0.75
    Gagner 0.64

    - Hall is an absolute beast of a hockey player. So is RNH
    - Belanger has poor numbers for a prototypical 3rd line player
    - Gagner is the definition of F O D D E R

    If, based on your numbers, Gagner is the definition of fodder, then Is it fair to conclude that Hemsky should be described as really expensive, injury prone fodder?

    Can’t shoot, doesn’t hit or block shots and is strictly one dimensional.

    Fair enough I guess.

  73. Onwards and Upwards | Buchberger Keepin' says:

    [...] end of the All-Star break is for me the start of the season’s denouement. As Lowetide outlined in his preview of tonight’s game February is a big month for the Oilers going forward. How they preform when [...]

  74. Lowetide says:

    I can read the comments and I’m 90.

  75. spoiler says:

    cabbiesmacker: Failing that I vote for Bookje’s option but only if the readers are wearing hot lime wigs.

    Damn, I think mine’s at the dry-cleaners.

  76. hags9k says:

    Traktor you bring some interesting stats which admittedly are pointing towards capital fodder but I still think the most important number to consider with Gagner is 1989.

  77. nathan says:

    bookje:
    Lt, Danny – just of a few days, could you please make the text Fuchsia on Hot Pink.Then return to the white on black.

    bookje,

    I was hoping for a background iike the Rexall ice surface and washed out text like centre ice paint.

  78. IceDragoon says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Hahaha

    During Oilers games I’ve learned to relieve stress by swearing loudly.
    I’ve also learned that it’s easier to avoid shifts that start with a face-off.
    :-)

    ……

    NeoJanus

    I like to use sportlemon.tv.

    I hit “Post Comment” a few minutes ago with the full url to the above and my post disappeared, so I am trying again. Mr. Google can help you get the link.

  79. IceDragoon says:

    OK, I’ve tried replying to Bruce twice now, and both times my post has been eaten by Al Gore.

    Third time’s the charm?
    (not using the reply option)

    ……

    Hahaha

    During Oilers games I’ve learned to relieve stress by swearing loudly, Bruce.
    I’ve also learned that it’s easier to avoid shifts that start with a face-off.
    :-)

    ……

    NeoJanus:

    I like to use sportlemon.tv

  80. peeps says:

    First off… I’ve visited the new site with an old desktop, a newish laptop, a blackberry phone, and an iPod… the site looks fine (by my eyes) regardless of the system I’m using. This website loads a little slower on the Blackberry and PC, but it’s super fast on the iPod (I’m guessing this is because I’m using Internext Explorer on the PC, and the Blackberry Torch has been slow at everything). Great site Lowetide, and thanks Danny for the little tweaks. I’m loving the new site.

    Next, regarding Hamliton and Pitlick potentially being traded, I agree that they haven’t done anything to make them untouchable. To be frank, that’s currently reserved to Eberle, Hall, and RNH. If the return is good enough, I say trade everyone else.

    Now, if the trade is Pitlick or Hamilton for magic beans, that’s a no-go.

  81. Traktor says:

    bendelson: If, based on your numbers, Gagner is the definition of fodder, then Is it fair to conclude that Hemsky should be described as really expensive, injury prone fodder?

    Can’t shoot, doesn’t hit or block shots and is strictly one dimensional.

    You could certainly make that argument this year, though he is still a much better player than Gagner.

    I wouldn’t lose any sleep if both were traded. My preference would be for a Staal type of center to play behind RNH.

  82. Traktor says:

    Tyler Pitlick is the only prospect in the system that can skate, play physical and has more than an enforcers touch around the net. Trading him would be beyond stupid.

    I don’t know what his points upside is but he skates and forechecks like Kesler.

  83. Lowetide says:

    Traktor:
    Tyler Pitlick is the only prospect in the system that can skate, play physical and has more than an enforcers touch around the net. Trading him would be beyond stupid.

    I don’t know what his points upside is but he skates and forechecks like Kesler.

    I agree that he has a unique skill set within the organization and who knows maybe he develops some chem with one of the three kids when he arrives in the NHL. Pitlick does have a terrific shot by all reports.

  84. Kert says:

    neojanus,
    First Row Sports is a good place to start.

  85. danieldelair says:

    Lowetide,

    Cutting Pitlick loose is like cutting Colin McDonald. Several years in the organization, similar type of player, puts up a good season just to let him walk. Becomes an AHL All Star this year, playing well right now against Pittsburgh.

  86. spoiler says:

    The grey actually looks fine on my mobile, so disregard all my grey comments above. I will put it down to the stupid corporate laptop, on which everything is tough to read without borrowing one of LT’s hearing aids.

  87. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    I can read the comments and I’m 90.

    You can pass for 79 easy.

  88. Lowetide says:

    WG: Great book btw. I am keeping my wife and dog awake at night reading it. Expect they’ll be by to off you soon. :-)

  89. bendelson says:

    Traktor,

    Traktor: You could certainly make that argument this year, though he is still a much better player than Gagner.

    I wouldn’t lose any sleep if both were traded. My preference would be for a Staal type of center to play behind RNH.

    So Hemsky is a much better player based on past performance I guess. Strangely it is Gagner with age on his side (time for improvement) and the only one of two to show any signs of character (again, based on what we have this season)

    I don’t expect you to agree Traktor but there it is… One player is fighting to improve.

  90. Lewis Grant says:

    I agree, the white on dark is hard to read. If anything, the grey is easier because the font is larger.

    I don’t care how good a prospect Bishop is. I don’t want any more defensive prospects, or any prospects, for that matter. It’s been five years! I want to win now, dammit! Or at least next year. That means Schenn or Yandle or J. Johnson or Subban or someone who can play defense now. (In an ideal world, Suter). And I’d like two of them.

    It’s unfortunate that Gleason is now off the market. Decrease in supply = increase in price.

    Of course, I’d also like to see a signed Hemsky. But Oilers management seems set on the old ‘buy high, sell low’ strategy.

  91. DSF says:

    The new site also looks just fine on my IMac, iPhone and iPad.

    All running Safari.

  92. DSF says:

    bendelson:
    Traktor,

    So Hemsky is a much better player based on past performance I guess.Strangely it is Gagner with age on his side (time for improvement) and the only one of two to show any signs of character (again, based on what we have this season)

    I don’t expect you to agree Traktor but there it is… One player is fighting to improve.

    Fighting to improve and improving are not the same thing.

  93. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    WG: Great book btw. I am keeping my wife and dog awake at night reading it. Expect they’ll be by to off you soon.

    My dog has given me “the look” for having the light on too late as well.

    Luckily my wife is a nightowl.

    I felt I needed a velvet inlaid book mark for the Torrey and Pollack sections.

    Read the Sather section yet?

  94. Lowetide says:

    WG: Yeah, read it twice. Wonderful stuff. Really interesting connections like Sinden-Sather-Nanne.

  95. bendelson says:

    DSF,

    You make it sound like trying is a big old waste of time. Luckily Hemmer is so flat out awesome he doesn’t need to.

  96. spoiler says:

    That empty advertising slot should be filled by Pearle Vision before the weekend.

  97. spoiler says:

    Flames and Wings honouring McCrimmon tonight. Very nice. And, Go Wings.

  98. DSF says:

    bendelson:
    DSF,

    You make it sound like trying is a big old waste of time.Luckily Hemmer is so flat out awesome he doesn’t need to.

    I would be happy if both were traded.

  99. Lowetide says:

    ashley: Ok, quit teasing you two.What book is this you speak of?

    It’s called BEHIND THE MOVES and it’s about NHL General Managers. Exceptional book.

  100. bendelson says:

    DSF,

    Fair enough and agreed should Gags bring back good value. I just felt the need to defend the guy that is out there working his ass off every night.

  101. Henry says:

    What book is this?

  102. Traktor says:

    Bendelson:

    I agree that it looks like Gagner trying to improve and even Renney says he does the right things. I don’t think Gagner helps win games though, and to be honest I also don’t think Edmonton’s roster really helps Gagner either.

  103. spoiler says:

    Effin Eberle. A god in the making.

  104. itsaleaf says:

    Are you fucking kidding?

    Eberle is unreal. What a beauty

  105. Lowetide says:

    Jordan Eberle is sunshine

  106. crude says:

    That Eberle. I would have picked him at 22 as well!
    The Avs are throwin their bods around tonight, no?

  107. Lowetide says:

    Dubnyk with a nice save.

  108. Woodguy says:

    It takes a special kind of stupid to take a holding call 1 on 2 after losing the puck in the ozone.

  109. LMHF#1 says:

    Aren’t you guys forgetting Phil Cornet – superstar?

    (seriously though, solid shift)

  110. crude says:

    Lowetide,

    you can say that again.

  111. Lowetide says:

    I agree, he seems to have a clue. Kytnar played well in his one game stint too, but this fellow has a little more game from what the stats tell us. Anyway, it was a nice sequence hope he can keep it going.

  112. crude says:

    Sutton has a pinching fetish.

  113. bookje says:

    I’ve always liked Belanger on the Powerplay.

  114. crude says:

    DUBEY!

  115. bookje says:

    Woodguy:
    It takes a special kind of stupid to take a holding call 1 on 2 after losing the puck in the ozone.

    We call that “pulling a Moreau” around these parts.

  116. James says:

    bookje: We call that“pulling a Moreau” around these parts.

    (Over)Eager totally ‘reau-ed it.

    ps Nice Belanger line

  117. Jordan says:

    Just got in from walking the dog (not Pat-style – actually walking the dog) and this is pretty much the best I could have reasonably hoped for – Belanger gets his, Dubnyk making some big saves, Eberle pots another AND Sam F-O-D-D-E-R Gagner sets up Eberle’s Goal.

    I’m torn between turning it off because I’m afraid it will go down hill from here, and continuing to watch and see if this can get even better (We all know I’ll keep watching – I’m an Oilers fan… its a terrible mental illness… but its nice to know that on some level I COULD turn it off..)

  118. ashley says:

    Cogs with a natural.

  119. Alice says:

    And it wasn’t even Against Us!

  120. Lowetide says:

    Great first period followed by a lacklustre second period. Oilers could use a strong third period here.

  121. sliderule says:

    Cogliano may cost someone a job if he keeps this up.
    I have been told that part of oilers staff thought he was soft and that’s partly why he was dealt.

    I hope Cogs sticks it to them but not us

  122. ashley says:

    sliderule:
    Cogliano may cost someone a job if he keeps this up.
    I have been told that part of oilers staff thought he was soft and that’s partly why he was dealt.

    I hope Cogs sticks it to them but not us

    Don’t worry, the second round draft pick we received in exchange for a real NHL player will almost certainly provide a better calibre player, statistically speaking, and probably one that plays all 82 games, not just 81.

  123. crude says:

    yeesh. Smid with the suicide pass to Hall there.

  124. crude says:

    And he likes it!

  125. spoiler says:

    That was a goal-scorers goal.

  126. Lowetide says:

    Hall’s a bum.

  127. delooper says:

    Nice to see Hemsky -> Hall starting to work out.

  128. bookje says:

    Did you see what Hall mouthed after that goal? I am pretty sure that he said “Fucking Buttersoft Play”. He hates having to play with Hemsky because Hemsky is a square peg.

  129. pboy says:

    Quinn had zero idea what the score was there.

  130. OilLeak says:

    bookje:
    Did you see what Hall mouthed after that goal?I am pretty sure that he said “Fucking Buttersoft Play”.He hates having to play with Hemsky because Hemsky is a square peg.

    I’m pretty sure he said “trade that bum already!”

  131. spoiler says:

    Neat, the Avs feed.

    Jesus. Gumby is going to be giving us a heart attack nearly every game he plays.

  132. DSF says:

    ashley: Don’t worry, the second round draft pick we received in exchange for a real NHL player will almost certainly provide a better calibre player, statistically speaking, and probably one that plays all 82 games, not just 81.

    LOL.

    Cogliano with 11 goals…Gagner with 5.

    And one of them kills penalties and gets almost zero PP time.

    Who could have seen that coming?

    :)

  133. spoiler says:

    These Avs announcers would trade for Hemsky in an eyeblink.

  134. crude says:

    Landeskog is a player. Stripped Ales clean, and should have drawn a penalty right after.

  135. Gerta Rauss says:

    Yeah,they like Hemsky a lot. Another messy shift for the Lander line.

  136. spoiler says:

    Doobie doobie do…

  137. Woodguy says:

    I don’t think Hall took a shift after getting hit into the boards and left the ice like his shoulder is fucked again.

  138. Woodguy says:

    Spoke too soon, Hall out at the end.

    DD looked good.

    Hemsky is good.

    Hall is good.

    Don’t trade Hemsky dumbasses

    s

  139. crude says:

    Seconded.

    Woodguy:
    Spoke too soon, Hall out at the end.

    DD looked good.

    Hemsky is good.

    Hall is good.

    Don’t trade Hemsky dumbasses

    s

  140. Lowetide says:

    Well there are some nice things about tonight’s game. Dubnyk played well for the most part, I think Whitney is showing better and the kids are more than alright. Taylor Hall. Man.

    And for those who will say Hemsky doesn’t battle and isn’t interested, maybe replay that game.

  141. Lowetide says:

    Well WG said all of it but it’s still true.

  142. IceDragoon says:

    So…

    Can I post now?

    edit – Guess so.

    Tried 3 times earlier and Al Gore ate my words.

  143. OilClog says:

    could we trade Hemsky to ourselves for a 2nd rd pick??? seems the best course of action.

    Calgary games seems like a wake up call for everyone. Still not a fan of Renney, hopefully next season those words are just a thing of the past. There may be a few good coaches available this offseason, someone that knows how to put all the tools he has to proper use.

  144. Kert says:

    ashley:
    Cogs with a natural.

    He was also 0% on the dot. (0-1)
    …Gee, who knew he’d make a decent winger.

  145. bookje says:

    Lowetide: And for those who will say Hemsky doesn’t battle and isn’t interested, maybe replay that game.

    What the hell does watching games have to do with establishing opinions about the play of hockey players and vehemently sharing those views?

  146. IceDragoon says:

    Bruce McCurdy: If you’re looking for stress/aggravation avoidance, Louise, I’d check out for the last minute of periods too. Especially the third.

    Thanks, Bruce.

    I swear to release the stress/aggravation caused by watching Oilers games.
    It’s easier to avoid the shifts that start with a face-off.
    ;-D

    It was really nice of Renney to remind me tonight of the shifts I forgot to mention above.

    The 4th line starts after drawing an icing. At least one of the offensive lines is rested enough to take advantage of a tired and/or overmatched opponent. *sigh

    They say he’s awesome at Xs and Os, though.
    Yippee!

  147. Schitzo says:

    I’m a mile late to the conversation, but re: CHL forward draft picks. I love the Hamilton selection, whether he makes it or not. Taking a kid with huge upside who fell due to injury is a solid strategy outside of the first round – I’ll take boom/bust over a Zach Stortini type any day.

  148. Schitzo says:

    (Further to my last comment, see Logan Couture)

    And not to oversimplify, but isn’t NHL drafting basically a two step process?

    1) Don’t fuck up the first rounder under any circumstances
    2) Spend your later round lottery tickets and cross your fingers

    Nice to see the Oilers actually succeeding at step 1 (for the most part). Step 2 was actually a strength in the later Pendergrast years, we’ll see if that continues.

  149. hockeyguy10 says:

    IceDragoon: Thanks, Bruce. I swear to release the stress/aggravation caused by watching Oilers games.It’s easier to avoid the shifts that start with a face-off.;-DIt was really nice of Renney to remind me tonight of the shifts I forgot to mention above.The 4th line starts after drawing an icing. At least one of the offensive lines is rested enough to take advantage of a tired and/or overmatched opponent. *sighThey say he’s awesome at Xs and Os, though.Yippee!

    Less than 10 minutes to go last night in a one goal,Colorado has the Oilers running around again.I had to rewind the pvr to make sure of what I saw.There it was….. Lander,Petrell and Cornet….now there is some nice line matching.

  150. knighttown says:

    Schitzo:
    I’m a mile late to the conversation, but re: CHL forward draft picks.I love the Hamilton selection, whether he makes it or not.Taking a kid with huge upside who fell due to injury is a solid strategy outside of the first round – I’ll take boom/bust over a Zach Stortini type any day.

    If that’s your strategy you might want to watch Marty Frk at the top prospects game. He was a potential top 3 pick 18 months ago and now could slide into the second round. Big winger with a massive shot battling a concussion all year. Came back a few weeks ago and didn’t produce at all but is now starting to pile up the points. Doesn’t seem to playing all that much with Nathan MacKinnon either.

    Do you throw the extra first rounder the oilers got in the Hemsky deal at this guy?

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