Red Sky At Morning

Taylor Hall is a young man driven to be excellent, and the Edmonton Oilers are an organization that is not competitive. These two things are bound to cause friction.

For Taylor Hall, it must be very difficult to come to grips with the realization that he is the first of what may be as many as 5 high end lottery picks in a row. When an organization is doomed to failure that’s one thing, but when the organization itself sets sail on a long journey without adequate manpower then it’s another.

The Edmonton Oilers have a plan, and that plan involves these young men beginning their careers as laughing stocks to even mediocre teams like the Calgary Flames. I welcome his youthful contempt for this kind of unbalanced approach (laying down today for a better tomorrow) and remain hopeful that Daryl Katz–the owner of the team–comes to the realization that breaking Taylor Hall’s spirit is just about the worst thing you can do.


I know many feel that firing the coach is the solution, but for me that’s not the best option. The Oilers have been running through coaching staffs like crazy over recent seasons and Renney doesn’t have the bullets to compete many nights. There have been times when the club iced a fully healthy group and looked competitive, for me that’s a better estimation of Renney’s ability.

He is not without error, I am still amazed that Linus Omark was flushed so early and that the coach couldn’t find a way to get Magnus Paajarvi into the top 9 effectively. Having said that, those issues can be solved between now and the last game of the season and I expect both players will get a chance to shine.


Lots of people are on this train and I can understand it. The things that are right about this organization are somewhat independent of the General Manager’s office and the things the GM is in charge of directly seem to blow up real good. This past off-season’s best moves came via the draft (RNH), reportedly a player trading himself (Smyth) to the team and the coach remembering a distant bell (Potter) that could work out.  The Andy Sutton deal is a plus arrow, but consdering the contributions versus cost delivered by Ben Eager, Eric Belanger and Cam Barker the GM’s report card is a sea of red.


Darryl Katz is the owner of the team and the leader of the organization. The rebuild was adopted by most of the fanbase and now the fanbase is tiring of it, and it looks to me like their star player–the franchise on-ice foundation–is growing weary of taking a knife to a gunfight. #4 has literally bled for this team, and pushed hard to get back into action as soon as possible.

And last night he’d had enough and the CBC lip sync specialists (likely numbering in the thousands) appear to have correctly identified the verbal. I don’t blame Taylor Hall, I praise him. The worst thing that could happen to the Oilers future is Taylor Hall taking it; it isn’t in his DNA. I think Daryl Katz has a similar will to win, because he is a very successful businessman in an exceptionally competitive field.

We wait.


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135 Responses to "Red Sky At Morning"

  1. PunjabiOil says:

    LOL. I love the line ”We wait” – so powerful.

    Even as a proponent of tanking, I’m getting a bit concerned about the organization’s direction. The culture of losing has to adversely be impacting the Hall’s and Eberle’s? Winning will obviously cure it, and the Oilers are going to have to be more aggressive in the off-season – but finishing 30th in the league for 3 years in a row is hardly a ringing endorsement or incentive for good NHL players to come here.

    Tambellini has proven to do more harm than good. Gregor was on Global today, and mentioned it is somewhat telling that both Tambellini and Renney are without contracts.


    The organization needs a complete overhaul in the management and coaching positions.

    I would hope Katz is interviewing better candidates, right about now.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Oilers have recalled Chorney, Petrell and Hartikainen.

  3. Traktor says:

    The only reason I’m against firing Renney right now is because I would like to replace him with Nelson and would prefer to keep Nelson in Oklahoma for the year.

    Aside from having experience as an assistant coach in the NHL he has won 2 championships in the UHL as a HC and also won a championship in the AHL as a AC. My fear is Edmonton will hire a retread again though like Marc Crawford.

    The bottom line though is Renney isn’t going to be back next year. One of the coaches responsibilities is to sell hope and it will be near impossible to do that after his back-to-back 30th place showings.

    Tambellini needs to go as well. The one positive I found in Tambellini was that he didn’t trade assets for a quick fix but if we replaced him with a turtle the exact same could be said. I’ll give him credit for the Penner trade but its pretty easy to find moves he made that cancels out one of his only smart dealings.

    As for Taylor Hall, he is the real captain of this team and should be given the C as early as next season and that’s not meant to be a slight against Shawn Horcoff.

  4. jb says:

    Agree with your overall assessment. Though It is somewhat possible that these tough times cause Hall to dig deep, look inward, and in the end he finds a whole new level to his game because he was tested so rigorously early on..

    I think the same type of effect helped Gilbert and Smid become the players they are today…

    As much sense as trading for and signing Suter and all that makes, the most likely outcome in all this is still re-signing Hemsky. (yes it’s more likely he re-signs than he’s gone).

    I have faith that we’re going to get the BPA with our lottery pick, but I have next to no faith that Tambellini/Lowe can make the right deals going forward..

  5. GTL says:

    Is it wrong that every time I see “cooch Renny” speak I see Michel Scott from the Office

  6. Woodguy says:

    Derek Zona is saying that he has information from someone close to the Oilers that Cam Barker is looked upon very favorably and will get a contract extension.

    I’m glad I gave up my season tickets.

    The organization is clearly moving in the NYI, ATL, CBJ direction as opposed to CHI, PIT.

    No good additions to the team have come from the GM’s office.

    That’s his main job.

    A new GM is needed.

  7. canucknnv says:

    Is the recall standard house cleaning? not sure who’s injured now or healthy. Or is there a trade to announce soon? probably just shuffling the deck of jokers

  8. Lowetide says:

    O’Marra, Teubert and Green were sent down I believe before last night’s game.

  9. jake70 says:

    Katz and Lowe will complete the ritual and have ST and TR at the altar for sacrifice as soon as they assure a top 5 pick this year (almost there, almost … there) is on it’ way. They have the arena deal, things appear to be moving well there (locals out there may correct me). Rexall Sports I hope will then hunker down on the on ice product and move things along.

    Hall has to be careful , at least he wasn’t on the bench sitting for those minutes, was he not on for like 2.5 minutes straight at the end? (stand to be corrected). Advanced stats aside, he wasn’t in on any of the offense and gave the puck away often last night. While looking toward the bench, he made some comments waiting for a line change completion ahead of the power play vs. NJ I think it was. The cameras are rollin. Just sayin.

  10. DerekZ says:

    breaking Taylor Hall’s spirit is just about the worst thing you can do.

    But remember, keeping Hall in Windsor last season would have been “poisoning the well”. This team needs an enema.

  11. canucknnv says:


    didn’t hear that, so nothing earth shattering there. I hope Harty stays up the rest of the year. The year is in the tank so I think its high time that the auditions begin.

  12. Traktor says:

    Derek Zona is saying that he has information from someone close to the Oilers that Cam Barker is looked upon very favorably and will get a contract extension.

    I’m glad I gave up my season tickets.

    The organization is clearly moving in the NYI, ATL, CBJ direction as opposed to CHI, PIT.

    No good additions to the team have come from the GM’s office.

    That’s his main job.

    A new GM is needed.

    I seriously doubt that Zona has any connections close to Oilers management. Barker wasn’t a bad bet. Signing Belanger for 3 years though was just stupid.

  13. ItsTheBGB says:


    How will he be able to resign Barker if he isn’t the GM after this season..? ;)

  14. Lowetide says:

    Derek: The reason for keeping Hall was that he was ready.

  15. ItsTheBGB says:


    It wasn’t stupid, he is just having his worst year offensively compared to his last 6~ years.

  16. DerekZ says:

    Not saying he wasn’t ready. But the logic that it was worse to “poison the well” by keeping him in juniors over making him play for a hopeless team is…questionable.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Derek: Yeah, I agree the poison the well issue was a non-starter. I think the reason to keep him is that if he’s ready to play at that level at age 18, then he should be better overall by age 21. I’ve gone over this with Tyler, he doesn’t agree so I’m probably on an island re: this issue.

  18. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: I seriously doubt that Zona has any connections close to Oilers management.Barker wasn’t a bad bet. Signing Belanger for 3 years though was just stupid.

    Actually I think his phrase was “someone close to the situation”

    That’s not Derek’s usual MO, he’s not a rumours guy, but take it for what it is.

    I liked the Belanger signing. 1 year too long on the contract though. Having a terrible year.

  19. jb says:


    It wasn’t stupid, he is just having his worst year offensively compared to his last 6~ years.

    He’s struggled no doubt.. I don’t mind the signing and Horcoff needed the help. Now they’re both struggling and it sucks to see. It allowed us to give the kids easier minutes and see what they can do, which proved we have a legit #1 line going forward that can only get better…

  20. godot10 says:

    Renney can’t possibly be brought back next year. So it is time for him to go now, at the All-Star break. Krueger or Buchberger interim coach for the rest of the year.

    Renney deploys his players inappropriately. Belanger was a good signing. Renney is making it look like a bad signing by playing him too high in the roster. Lander should be in the AHL if Hordichuk is one of his wingers in the NHL. It actually wouldn’t hurt to play Eager with Nugent-Hopkins or Hemsky occasionally (like Semenko and McSorley got to play with Gretzky). And this whole slotting of players to fit a line structure, rather than structuring your lines to make best use of the available talent is just asinine. And that is without even getting to Paajarvi, Omark, and Hartikainen.

    Tambellini not getting defensive help when Whitney became doubtful is probably going to cost him his job. Shaon Morrisonn has been playing in the minors. It is absurd that he is not here instead of the there.

    Elite forwards with no defensemen to get them the puck is really working well. Drafting defensemen in the first round has really hurt Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Nashville, St. Louis, Washington, and LA. A team needs to be eight or nine deep in defensemen because they play so more of the game, and because of the attrition rate. Ryan Murray please.

  21. Traktor says:


    It wasn’t stupid, he is just having his worst year offensively compared to his last 6~ years.

    Signing 3rd/4th line players to long-term deals is reckless and unnecessary. Haven’t Moreau and Pisani taught anything? Belanger is now another player that cripples a teams flexibility because he has no trade value until he is in the last year of his deal.

  22. Smarmy says:

    They can’t break Hall. That’s like saying you could of broken Messier. Moose would have strangled Slats before he called it quits.

    I’m guessing Hall is trying to grab this sad sack of shit by the neck and make it respectable and that would be tough to watch. Then again, I haven’t watched a game in awhile. Feels good man.

    Lowe and Steve need to go. But Lowe will never go and Katz will get 500 million for a nice new rink to make more money and the city will get to enjoy a shitty hockey team in more a comfortable and modern setting.

  23. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: Actually I think his phrase was “someone close to the situation”

    That’s not Derek’s usual MO, he’s not a rumours guy, but take it for what it is.

    Is his source Garfield?

  24. Woodguy says:


    Here’s Zona’s post on Whitney and Barker.

    In the post he writes: “So it’s disconcerting to find out from a source close to the situation that the Oilers believe Barker is their 3rd-best defenseman. They believe in him so much, they are interested in re-signing Barker to a multi-year deal.”

    Like I said earlier, CnB isn’t a rumour site and I can’t remember Derek every writing something like that. I’m taking it at face value.

  25. Woodguy says:


    Did you know that David Staples tweeting something at fussybritches and Dan Tencer responded?

  26. Traktor says:


    Elite forwards with no defensemen to get them the puck is really working well.

    Our elite forwards (Hall, RNH, Eberle) are all close to PPG.

    The other thing I don’t get is how you say Belanger was a good signing but he is playing too high on the depth chart. Are you saying 1.75M for a 4th line player is a good signing??

  27. Traktor says:


    Did you know that David Staples tweeting something at fussybritches and Dan Tencer responded?

    I don’t have twitter. What did Staples tweet and what did Tencer say?

  28. HBomb says:

    Traktor: As for Taylor Hall, he is the real captain of this team and should be given the C as early as next season and that’s not meant to be a slight against Shawn Horcoff.

    Is he now? No. But the signs are there that he will be the next guy wearing the C. That was likely the plan from the start in summer 2010. For all the differing opinions on Horcoff, I know this much – the guy is NOT stupid. He knows about Fogolin and Gretzky and training camp in the fall of 1983.

    The torch will be passed when the time is right. Is that time now? Not sure about that. If I had to wager a guess at this point, we’re going to be seeing a press conference in May or June of 2013 where Hall has a new long-term ‘career’ deal announced with the Oilers (i.e. his second contract) and part of the festivities will be Horcoff handing him a jersey with the “C” on the front. Making a guy a captain in his second NHL season very rarely makes sense (2011-12 NHL MVP Jonathan Toews being an obvious exception).

    In short: it’s going to happen. Not today, but within the next 18 months is my guess.

    As for Hall’s comment about the pulling the goalie last night? I say “good on him”. He’s clearly just as frustrated with losing as any of the fans. I’m not sure whether or not Renney’s the guy to blame, but he is on thin ice right now – partially because of his own doing, and partially because he’s Tambellini’s hire, and if Tambo takes the gaspipe come April, the new GM is going to want “his guy” in place as coach. As long as the new GM isn’t MacT and “his guy” is promoting Bucky to HC, I’m OK with that…

  29. bookje says:


    I think the notion is that Dan Tencer is fussybritches (regardless of what he said)

  30. godot10 says:


    Yep, Belanger was a good signing for the 4th line when you have an 18-year old and a 22-year old as your top two centres, neither of whom PK, or who are particularly good on draws, and are unlikely to be able to play in a shutdown role.

    You need to be able to throw out a 4th line (Eager, Belanger, Jones) for an own zone face-off, and that can handle a few matchup minutes against the other team.

    It was a good signing for the situation the Oilers were in. The Oilers needed a veteran 4th line centre who can win draws and PK.

  31. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: I don’t have twitter. What did Staples tweet and what did Tencer say?

    You should have twitter. The comedy alone is worth it. Good links to other hockey writers in other markets is also gold.

    Was searching through Staple’s tweets and couldn’t find it, was a while back.

    David mentioned it, if he reads this maybe he will comment.

    I don’t remember the specifics, and may have characterized it wrong.

  32. Half Full says:

    What I saw last scares the bejeezus out of me. One of the pillars of the future!, 4 days from an incident that would leave most people an absolute psychological mess, and he is out there battling hard on a 29tth place team. For what? Because he has pride and heart, that’s it. 2 traits that are in such high demand on this team. 2 traits that are nearly non-existent on this version of the Oilers.

    I hope the owner takes note of Taylor’s frustration last night. This could turn out bad in the long run if it isn’t addressed now. I am not saying fire this guy, fire that guy. Katz, Lowe, Laforge and anyone else in Senior Management should be meeting today to reflect on the last 2 years. Don’t call these last 2 years a rebuild. Call the last 5 a failure. Regroup now and decide if the path we are on is still the best method, before it is too late. Let this go, and finish last again, then ccme out weak again next year and you can almost wager on the fact that Taylor will want out. And if he goes, say goodbye to Ebs, sorry to say.

    Something needs to be done now to show the kids that this is not acceptable and changes will be made to ensure we are taking the next step to respectability and competitiveness. Whether that is changes to philosophy, the plan, manpower, leadership, it doesn’t matter. Something. Anything. Before it is too late.

  33. MISNO says:

    I actually get a little sick checking Oilers scores during games when I’m at work or away from the TV…last night was no exception. Ugh, 3-0 before the expiration of the first period, according to my hockeynews app. Third year into a rebuild, I figured it would be safe to subscribe to NHL GameCenter Live again after a two year absence…WRONG!

    One has to wonder what goes through the ol’ hamster wheel of Tambo and Sons regarding the future and present of this hockey club. Does he really think that the fanbase should be happy with a third first overall pick looming on the horizon? All we want is progress. Just a modicum…an iota…scraps…something!!! A 29th place finish would be improvement, but the Ducks and Jackets have just figured out how to win just in time for our annual campaign.

    Fire the GM, fire the coach indeed.

  34. Smarmy says:

    I’d fire LaForge even if everything is peachy. If only so he stops leering at those Oiler girls that dance around the building.

  35. Rondo says:

    How many times do I have to say this Oilers are a young fast small team. They have been the same team for 6 yrs. They are not getting better if you go by points.

    They have had the wrong philosophy , look at a team like St Louis for example light years ahead of Oilers.

    Upper management needs to go. They had their chance, it does not matter if they choose 1st in the draft. This teams philosophy is wrong.

  36. "Steve Smith" says:

    Howmany times do I have to say this Oilers are a young fast small team.

    I’d settle for zero, but it seems a little late for that.

  37. stevezie says:

    Remember when Lowe was on AO and he said it was a five year plan? I think he meant it.
    I really cannot imagine how anyone who wasn’t hoping to be bad could go into the season with the defensive corps, and even then, I really, really don’t understand how Whitney and Barker’s injuries weren’t the impetus for an immediate, even if small, move. Someone mentioned Shaonne Morrison, perfect example. Management and ownership are on the same page, and that page is one more year of sucking. Tambellini’s fate this summer will prove me right or wrong.

    Of course, even when you have a good plan you’re allowed to change it as you go. I don’t want to hear anything about horses in mid-stream, because even if you’re on board with one more lottery pick- we just can’t be getting killed by the Flames like that.

    Side note: when Omark is healthy I would love to see PRV and Lander sent down so the three of them can play five games together as a first line. Our record certainly couldn’t be any worse with Cornet and the Duthman, or whomever you prefer, for those five games.

  38. rich says:

    I find myself agreeing w/Traktor regarding the coaching job in that you don’t fire Renney now, let him finish and then give the job to Todd Nelson next year. Nothing to be gained w/an interim coach unless you want this team to play even worse (if that’s possible). Nelson will have coached some of these guys in the AHL and has the track record to work w/a young team and build some accountability and will help the team to improve.

    Rather than “fire” 3.2, it would be my bet that he gets “moved” into another role in the organization. And that said, to the person who said earlier they’d like to see Vish back in the GM seat, I would argue that the “President of Hockey Operations” is still calling the shots and therefore has not left the chair. He’s just not the front man now, but his hand is still on the tiller and I would suggest he really needs to go for the good of the organization as well…but Katz would never get rid of both.

    A competent man needs to come in but it would not surprise me if per all last weeks rumors MacT moves into the chair – or becomes a part of a “triumverate” with Vish, MBS and MacT as the 3rd spoke in the wheel. 3.2 becomes GM in OKC.

    Stranger things can happen.

  39. russ99 says:

    I’m not opposed to bringing Barker back, but at a vastly reduced contract.

    The guy only played 12 games for us, and the jury is still out if he can be an effective player.

    Also, as we learned this year, it’s a smart move to have some experienced cover for the backline in case of depletion due to injury.

    As for Whitney coming back, I hope he can contribute, but when a player says he hopes he can still play in the NHL at 80%, warning sirens should be going off.

  40. "Steve Smith" says:

    russ99: The guy only played 12 games for us, and the jury is still out if he can be an effective player.

    He’s played 283 NHL games – I think the jury is in.

    I mean, if the “vastly reduced contract” is a two-way deal where it’s expected he’ll play most of the season in Oklahoma City, and just fill-in for injuries, then I might be with you (although I’m still probably not, on account of the AHL veteran rule, and the fifty contract limit). But we know what kind of NHL player he is, and it’s preceded by “not an”.

  41. jfry says:

    @LT, i don’t think MPS plays top 9 minutes, as a 20/21 yo, on a decent team. in detroit (a team we love to hold in esteem), he’d be in the minors still, or most likely still in sweden. i don’t think it’s renney’s fault he didn’t give the converted dman more minutes.

  42. russ99 says:

    "Steve Smith",

    It took Gilbert and Smid 300-350 games to develop into what they are now.

    Surely, Barker is behind that curve at this point, but he’s surely a better option than the endless train of kids from OKC at this point.

    Looks like Barker may be back in a few weeks, so we’ll see…

  43. jfry says:

    viewing barker as a better option than undeveloped minor league kids, is true. viewing barker as a legitimate nhl dman, is another thing all together — locking said dman up in a multi-year gig is a cellar dweller style move.

  44. VOR says:

    I think it is probably very tough to be an NHL GM. I am also certain that it is impossible to plan to tank. Weird things happen in hockey.

    Think how mad we would all be if ST’s contract was renewed and all he did before next season was to re-sgin Hemsky, Barker, Smyth, and Danis, trade for Mark Stuart from Winnipeg for a handful of second tier prospects, get Klefbom to come over for training camp, and sign free agents Mark Mancari, Drew MacIntyre, and the psycho smurf Brendan Shinnimin. We’d not only want him tarred and feathered we would be sure the tank was on for another year.

    To understand both how difficult it is to be a GM and how hard it would be to tank all you have to do is change some of those names starting with Mark Stuart. Underperforming 1st rounder with no quit in him like Stuart. Try Jason Smith. Mark Mancari, career minor league scorer, big not flashy, shoots a lot, suddenly on a first line in the NHL with two superstars – sound familiar – change for Charlie Simmer. Drew MacIntyre career minor leaguer with a .919 sv% and a 2.36 goals against but strangely not good enough to get a ticket in the NHL. Change him for Tim Thomas. Brendan Shinnimin not good enough to be drafted made Phoenix out of training camp, went back to Tri-City to take a shot at a Memorial Cup. Not quite right in the head, marches to his own drummer, mad skills when he isn’t suspended. Try Dino Ciccarelli.

    I left Oscar Klefbom out because there really is no comparable for him, his SEL numbers suggest he is next to nothing. The World Juniors on the other hand suggest he is something very special indeed. If very special is what he brings to next year’s training camp he is a game changer all by himself.

    The point is nobody could have predicted what Jason Smith became in Edmonton, nor the fire in a 29 year old goaltender that would make him a super star, the unbelievable chemistry of the Triple Crown Line, or that Dino Ciccarelli would be hockey’s Pete Rose. If you were a GM trying to tank they would all have seemed like defensible moves guaranteed to tank your team. In the real world on the other hand they would have destroyed your careful plans.

    As for it being tough out there for a GM, think how mad we will be at ST if we discover he had a shot at say Shinnimin and didn’t take it. Then the kid is a point a game player and team leader in Phoenix (taking over the C from Shane Doan). Next thing we know Drew MacIntryre is skating around the ice with a Stanley Cup and we find out his agent tried for weeks to get Edmonton to sign him. Now we will all be convinced ST passed on these guys because he is a useless sack of rotten beets or was deliberately trying to tank for a decade.

    NHL GMs must have incredible inner confidence just to get up each day and go into work.

    It is easy for all of us to sit back and use hindsight and selective memory to prove even we could have done better. The real world GM has to deal with hundreds of decisions each year as complicated as do we sign Mark Mancari, or Drew MacIntyre while trying to trade or sign one of their most valuable assets, deal with a fan base that is pissed off as hell, etc. All of this in the era of the blogosphere where each minute of his day can be analyzed by thousands of rabid, and often very bright, posters.

    I am not sure you could pay me enough.

  45. OilClog says:

    I was hoping to wake up to.. Renney has been relieved of his duties, Tambi has been relieved of his duties, every player on our team is available unless they’ve been drafted in the last 3 seasons.. or if their name ends in Smid, cause he’s a shot blocking maniac and you can’t have him.

  46. Aron_S says:

    First time poster to LT’s site. Can anyone tell me what the status is on Omark? I though the injury he had was only supposed to keep him out till mid-late December? Is he still injured? Or did he decide to stay in Sweden as he’d apparently been insinuating?

  47. bookje says:


    The only reason to fire him now is if there is a really high level of player discontent in the room. I am saying ‘IF’. I think we all could be reading a little too much into one comment by T.Hall at the end of a loss. I am sure that nobody is happy in the room, but that doesn’t mean that ‘Renny has lost the room’.

  48. Lowetide says:

    Aron: I read somewhere (don’t remember where) that he was supposed to be back this coming week. Not a lot of info out there, though. Not a lot of updates.

  49. Gret99zky says:

    I think it is going to take a lottery pick’s refusal to report to the team to wake up Katz.

    “Sorry, I’d rather not play than play for THAT organization. My parents and agent agree.”

    Katz will have no choice but to abandon his cellar-dweller architecture.

  50. Aron_S says:


    Thanks for the info! Now if he can just sneak back into the line-up if they make the mistake of trading Hemsky…

  51. cabbiesmacker says:

    Doesn’t the term “rebuild” imply that there was something good there once, so you raze everything above the foundations and replace it with all things shiny and new? WTF are we rebuilding? 1988? 2006? That cup run might have been the worst thing that could ever happen to this team in that it has Lowe thinking he’s actually capable of assembling a decent hockey team with a couple of astute player moves and signings. What he’s failed to understand is there were some pretty nice pieces already in place in the form of younger Smyths, Horcoff’s and a real captain type in Smith, and that a tweak here and there was good enough to squeak into 8th. Of course having a top2 in league Dman for ONE year helped a tad.

    Biggest problem with this team is, and might always be, Edmonton’s inability to separate the past from the present and hanging on to the heros that contributed to it. Anyone actually believing our current GM is calling the player personnel shots right now w/o approval from a higher power is struggling to light the fibreglass drapes with a blowtorch. Get Lowe and everyone even remotely associated with the Oiler glory days the hell and gone down the road. Isn’t 6 years out of the playoffs enough cause? Now the basement level is repaired.

    If it’s a fackin rebuild start acting like it, take your lumps in the win column, and play the kids til they get what it’s about vs supplementing them with parts from the recycle bin. If you insist on having a roster that includes +30′s then make them provens ala the 08/09 Pens with Gonchar and Sykora.

    Would the 09/10 Hawks still have been a damn good team minus Madden, Hossa, Sopel, and Campbell?

    The 03/04 Oilers without Pouzar, and Lindstrom?

    Horcoff? Belanger? Sutton? Khabibulin? Smyth, God love him and lovely season and all but, wtf? Quite frankly spouting off about “mentorship for the kids while they mature” is a giant pantload imo. Does anyone actually believe Hopkins, Hall, and Eberle are learning valuable life lessons from any of the above as we flounder through this shipwreck of a season? “Gentlemen?…Listen up..This how how we lose.” Did Gretzky and Messier need it? Toews and Kane? Crosby and Malkin? Were we trying to make some big move up the standings this year that these “proven veteran winners” were going to enable? Nah,,,far better to tie up $19.3M on “mentorship” vs 20 – 27 year olds that can actually contribute and have upside.

    If any member of this pathetic management team had really wanted to show some smarts and planning abilities we should have been rolling kids at forward and securing the services of 4-5 good veteran D to help them out on the back end when they make their inevitable foibles.

    It’s far too easy imo to point to the Eager, Belanger and Barker contracts as a waste of $5.1 M when theres 4x that being tossed out the window on “mentors” that fit this managements teams school of thinking or constitute alumni reward contracts.

    Renney might have some warts but wtf could Scotty f’n Bowman accomplish with this group? It goes a little deeper than slotting MPS (Mega Pussy Syndrome) with the right guys and recalling Pinus from the A.

  52. pboy says:

    This organization will still be dysfunctional regardless of what the future holds for V.03 or Renney. The guy who used to wear #4 is still in charge and I can’t see that changing if the other two lose their jobs. Our last decade will continue to serve as prologue until Katz understands that the Boys on the Bus needs to remain in our memories and professionals need to be hired to hold the reins.

  53. Jordan says:

    So very, very sad.

    Was at the game last night. Had a lot of fun with the folks I was sitting with when we were either bashing the Oilers, the brass, or talking about the returns for players at the deadline. Watching the game was enough to make a person’s eyes bleed though.

    Does anyone know where to get a bat signal? Because really… we need Batman to show up and fix this terrible mess he’s made. The most important part of the Original Oilers Dynasty wasn’t high draft picks – it was a great GM.

    Would someone please let Katz know he’s going the wrong way for Dynasty v. 2.0?

    Oh, btw LT, that interview with Corey Graham was really enlightening. Based on that, and what you have heard from others, would it be fair to suggest that Reinhart is likely the safest pick in that second tier of CHL defensemen? If the Oilers could walk away with Grigorenko and/or Reinhart, would you see that as a win?

  54. Lowetide says:

    Jordan: Yeah, I think Reinhart might be moving up the list and could be inside the top 10. I didn’t expect Corey’s answer re: Reinhart/Dumba but he was pretty strong on the opinion.

    I think the Oilers will draft Yakupov if they end up going first, but after that I think they’ll take the dub defender Murray 2nd overall. That’s just a guess, though and things can change.

  55. Traktor says:

    If Yukupov and Grigs are Taylor/Tyler v.2 I suspect Edmonton will go with the center this time. I was all for trading the farm and drafting Couturier to play behind RNH but Grigs would make a killer #2 as well.

    Also, I just read Oilers Nation for the first time in 6 months or so. Tough crowd lol

  56. VOR says:


    Sidney Crosby led the Penguins in scoring as a rookie. The next five guys were Sergei Gonchar 31, Mark Recchi 37, John LeClair 36, Ryan Malone 26, Ziggy Palffy 33. Crosby couldn’t have had much more veteran leadership and mentoring. We’ll thus never know if he needed it or not but it couldn’t have hurt given he got 102 points.

  57. oilersfan says:

    Bruceor David Staples or anybody: how did Barker do in his 12 games scoring chance wise? I can’t find the archive at COH but memory says he was dead last in scoring chance plus minus amongts dmen. Is that so?

  58. "Steve Smith" says:


    Both Gilbert and Smid were far better after 283 games than Barker is. Gilbert was far better in his first NHL season than Barker is now.

    During his professional career, Cam Barker has had no arrows pointing in the right direction. None. Comparisons to Gilbert and Smid are ludicrous.

  59. TheOtherJohn says:

    Maybe Barker becomes a litmus test for Oiler management.

    Many of us think Lowebellini are a terrible management tandem and seriously question if they have a clue. Others believe the rebuild/Plan/patience narrative that they sell the marketplace. I.e. We have to be really really bad, to be good

    If they sign Barker, maybe it will finlly show their supporters that the management team does not have the skill set to successfully manage a pro hockey team.

  60. Lowetide says:

    On the right side Oilers are Gilbert, Potter and Petry. Left side Smid, Whitney, Peckham and then we’re going to see the AHL guys (Teubert, Plante) and then Klefbom, Marincin et cetera.

    I assume they are going to add AT LEAST one guy for the top pairing. Right?

    Where does Barker fit?

  61. Andrew W says:

    Bruce Garrioch wrote today “Don’t be surprised if Jackets C Jeff Carter is gone before the deadline”. He has a reputation as being fairly well connected, although I have no idea how consistently he hits the mark on this type of soft speculation.

    Anyway, it got me wondering – would Horcoff for Carter straight up be something either team would consider? Would it benefit the Oilers?

    I’m a fan of Horcoff and think that’s he’s a solid captain, based on what I can tell as a fan looking in from the outside. Still, if this trade was a possibility my initial reaction would be to give it a thumbs up. Carter could bring a lot to the Oilers, including a solid F/O option from the right side.

    Here’s the link:, and I think that Garrioch is right that if Carter does get moved this year that it would be the move that “ultimately gets GM Scott Howson fired”.

  62. Lowetide says:

    I don’t think Horcoff gets you Jimmy Carter with his contract. #10 is hurt and I love the guy, but he’s not going to be close to equal value for Jeff Carter.

  63. Traktor says:

    “Steve Smith”:

    During his professional career, Cam Barker has had no arrows pointing in the right direction.

    And yet Chuck Fletcher traded Nick Leddy for him. What a strange thing to do considering Barker has, according to you, never shown a positive arrow.

    I thought I read somewhere that Chuck Fletcher is a math guy too.

  64. TheOtherJohn says:


    Was that the Chuck Fletcher math guy that bought Barker out? Wouldn’t that kinda tell you Fletcher did not like that trade.

  65. Gerta Rauss says:

    Horcoff would get you Billy Carter.

  66. Andrew W says:


    You’re probably right. Part of my reasoning was that Carter’s contract would also be hard to move and that Columbus might be keen to get rid of it, but there would probably be other teams willing to offer more.

    I must be truly exhausted to be hashing out possible trade scenarios, but what if the pot was sweetened? Would it be worth it if Paajarvi was added to the mix? Up until this season Carter looked like a hell of a player and the best time to pick up an asset is when its value is low. His value might be as low as it gets in his career right now.

  67. Marc says:

    I don’t understand why anyone would take Tambellini’s public statements about the team with anything other than a huge grain of salt. He’s not going to (and should not) throw his own players under the bus regardless how badly they are perfoming. He’s either going to say something unequivocally positive when asked about a player, or he’ll say something like ‘X is disappointed with how his season is going so far, and we’re disappointed, but he’s working hard and we expect things to turn around’. Statements like that do not mean that Tambellini actually thinks that the player is any good, let alone that he’ll be re-signed.

    Who were the least effective Oilers last season (30 or more games)? Khabibulin, Foster and Strudwick on D, Brule, Jacques, Fraser, MacIntyre, Stortini, Reddox at forward (some on here would add Jones to this list as well, but he had more points than any three of those forwards put together, so I’m not sure he qualifies as ineffective).

    Does anyone recall Tambellini saying anything the slightest bit neative about any of those players during the season?

    Who got dumped in the off season? Foster , Strudwick, Jacques, Fraser, MacIntyre, Stortini and Reddox. And he tried to move Brule. Basically everyone except Khabibulin, who had an immovable contract.

  68. bookje says:

    All of this Oiler talk is depressing – I think I will get back into watching movies again (seeing as Oiler games are simply painful to watch as of late). I enjoy sitting down for a movie, but when kids started arriving in my house about 3.5 years ago, time kind of was difficult to come by. With all of the Oiler watching I am not doing now….

    I watched X-men First Class last night and thought it was well done. I wasn’t really familiar with January Jones prior to this (Haven’t really watched Mad Men or any of the movies she has been in ), but thought she made a great Emma Frost. I would recommend you consider her for one of your future “What does it all mean” images.

    Other than the mainstream ‘big hits’ are there any good movies out there that anyone would recommend? Any hidden Gems?

  69. Traktor says:


    Was that the Chuck Fletcher math guy that bought Barker out? Wouldn’tthat kinda tell you Fletcher did not like that trade.

    Barker obviously didn’t work out in Minnesota. My point was that Barker had enough positive arrows at one point in time that another GM traded a prospect drafted 16th overall to obtain his services.

    Also, being waived and bought isn’t always the final say in a hockey player. Example: Souray leads all Dallas defensemen in points and +/- and is averaging over 20 minutes per game. Edmonton could use a player like that.

  70. godot10 says:


    Not January Jones….Rose Byrne is the the real looker and keeper, and she can act too, unlike Ms. Jones.

  71. nelson88 says:

    Rieder back to putting up points after a short slump following his stint with team Germany.

    Leads his team in scoring. 5 shorties, 5 PP goals and 14 at even strength. Kid is having a hell of season.

  72. godot10 says:

    You can sign Barker once. To sign him again would be a firing offence.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  73. Traktor says:


    Carter’s term isn’t pretty but I’m sure CBus could extract some value in a trade. I think Horcoff’s closest comparable in terms of 1 for 1 trade value would be Mike Komisarek, though Edmonton would likely need to sweeten the deal.

  74. VOR says:

    Actually, Cam Barker has had several seasons in the NHL where he had positive corsi and played decent minutes. Also, 68 games played, with 6 goals and 34 assits suggests he isn’t pure crap. He got traded to Minnesota because the math suggested he would be a decent 4 who could play power play minutes and not totally embarass himself at evens. He has always played typical four D opponents and had medicore to bad team mates. In other words not a world beater, kind of MEH but not horrible.

    However, coming out of Junior Barker had a well earned reputation for creating offense without creating chaos which is rather an unusual combination. That part of his game did arrive in the NHL. In 4888 minutes in the NHL he has given away the puck 58 times while producing about .33 points per game. Compare that to 34 giveaways in 900 minutes so far this year for Tom Gilbert or 39 in 833 minutes so far this year for Petry. Those aren’t bad numbers for puck movers by the way, Barker just has unimaginably good ones. So it should be clear why Fletcher traded Leddy to get Barker. 4D with offensive upside.

    Then Barker’s first full season with the Wild injuries were combined with terrible on ice performance (though the odd thing is he was suddenly way more physical and involved). The combination led Fletcher to buy him out thus cutting his losses. So the Oilers got a young man whose confidence appeared to be shot. On top of which he was playing quite badly here before he got hurt. At least I think so and the math agrees.

    I can’t imgaine why on Earth we would sign him, never mind long term but to suggest he has never had a positive arrow in his career is incorrect. If he went back to being a four with positive corsi while playing 18 minutes a night, getting 25 points a year, quarterbacking your 2nd PP unit, and never giving the puck away Barker could be a useful piece. He hasn’t convinced me that he will ever regain that level. Maybe the Oilers management just saw him good.

  75. Andrew W says:


    Although I really can’t imagine that trade happening, you’re likely right in terms of the quality of return for the Captain (sadly). As mentioned I’m still a fan of his and can’t bring myself to judge him by his contract. I’d be happy if he’s able to play out the deal in Edmonton, especially with a small uptick in his production. For all of his on-ice struggles, he’s always impressed me with his professionalism and effort, qualities that every team can use.

  76. danny says:


    A few lesser known movies that I liked (to varying degrees)

    An Education
    Children of Men
    It’s all gone Pete Tong
    Bubba Ho-Tep

    A documentary that if you haven’t watched, you should. Probably the most powerful film I’ve ever experienced. ‘Dear Zachary’

  77. danny says:

    Also, if you haven’t watched the HBO series ‘The Wire’ … Make it happen. Im rewatching the entire series for the 2nd time in 3 years. Probably the pinnacle of television programming.

  78. VOR says:

    Horcoff’s contract is an albatross around his neck and problematic for the Oilers.

    The thing is the Oilers had him just about fairly valued at $3.6 million per year and Kevin Lowe went and raised it to $5.5 million. Poor Horc didn’t improve 52%. So fans were bound to turn on him. It was predicable and inevitable.

    Making every thing worse this season Renney is riding him way too hard. Horcoff is playing outrageous minutes and difficult ones at that. He is struggling more and more as the season goes on. This wasn’t supposed to happen, Belanger was going to help with the heavy lifting and RNH with the scoring. Frankly Belanger hasn’t been as useful as Cogs. Though we could probably argue he is better than Colin Fraser. RNH was doing pretty well until he got hurt.

    Horcoff goes on playing the tough minutes, playing hurt, and trying to lead. Meanwhile the fans see him as the problem because his contract doesn’t reflect either his role or his talent. There isn’t a hope, courtesy of that same contract that the Oilers can trade him anytime soon. He remains with his foot stuck in a trap of unreasonable expectations that he helped to create. Even though Horcoff shares responsibility for his plight I’ve genuinely come to feel bad for the Comrade.

  79. sliderule says:

    The oils management team Lowe/mambo have thru intention or you figure put us towards the lottery.
    If it’s the lottery please ,please don’t encourage them to pick a defenceman.Murray is soft and Dumba is a huge gamble.
    Grigornko is going to be there for us or if he is gone there will be another.whoever we pick he should have some grit.
    If the fxxx this up the golden ones will all want out shortly

  80. Bos8 says:

    I poke fun at Horcoff all the time as Mr Oops. But facts are facts, yes Horcoff got the payoff because of Hemksy but he does put in the effort. I’ve stated before that he and Smyth are wiped out. Been rode hard and put away damp too many times. And then you get the “Hey Horc and Smythy haven’t scored in x games and I go ballistic. The only thing Renney hasn’t got him doing is sweeping the ice. And then we have Belanger – and team needs – hey let’s get another little guy, he’s really good on faceoffs. Surely to God there were other choices than another little guy at center.

    The Nuge and Ebs need a corner man, if Harsky isn’t the answer then throw Eager out there a couple of times a game. And don’t get me started on Hordichuk or Jones. It’s like a rule that the Oilers cannot find honest hockey players out there at a reasonable cost. The Glencross/Brodziak players. As soon as they get them, they’re gone. Calgary has a raft ot them, St Louis, even more so. I yearn for smart, honest effort, hockey players.

    My only beef with Renney – frickin energy line – tits on a boar. At least if they killed penalties, but no put Horcoff and Smyth out there to work their tails off.

  81. nelson88 says:

    Stockton being outshot 39-9 early in the 3rd and up 3-1. Doubtful Roy’s ceiling will ever be more than an NHL back-up but he is a streaky bugger and can stand on his head. Reminds me of Garon.

  82. Jordan says:

    Horcoff’s contract is certainly un-tradable this year, but next year at the deadline is a different story. Next year is the last year he makes more than his cap hit, and after that, be becomes a boon to have-not teams trying to make the cap.

    Salary (starting with this year) goes 6.5, 6, 4, 3 Cap hit of 5.5

    Unless the whole system dissapears in the summer during CBA negotiations, in which case it doesn’t matter anyways.

    Point is this: after this year, Horcoff becomes a mobile commoidity. I’m not saying he’ll get much return, but… he’ll be less of an albatross, more of a bad rash – you don’t like it, but there’s medication to make it almost bearable.

  83. OilClog says:

    I’d take Cogs over 20 too, I know Cogs can’t win a face off for the life of him, but the guy did play through everything, and gave it his all. Stone Hands yes!

    I for some reason tricked myself into waking up with some optimism about the Oil, that last nights defeat was finally the smack upside the head management can’t shake off, bells would ring, shots would be fired, a major shake up would take place..

    Alarms are still sounding, a young #4, a bunch of know if all fans, and a career backup color commentator on HNIC.. are the only ones asking the obvious questions. Sweet we got rid of half of last year’s team. Now all we need to do is get rid of most the rest that are still left, most of the new additions, coaching staff, management, the barn, banners, records, trophies, history, and just wave the white towel and give the hell up. You know when we lose to Calgary 6-2, lose the last 99 games against them, they practically embarass us in every way imagined, took our women, ate our steaks, spit on our potatoes, and the organization does absolutely nothing about and says the same old song and dance.. it’s like dealing with a junkie.. you want to care, help, love, build up, represent, scream your Oiler pride at every enemy location.. but you can’t, you’re beginning to forget how, you have to walk away because it’s clear they only care about themselves and you don’t want to end up at the pawn shop having to buy your camera back that they stole, as they were feeding us more lies, abuse, how it’s going to get better, I’m not like I use to be I promise.. blah blah blah

  84. spoiler says:

    49er fans know all about Dynasties followed by years of wandering the desert. Goddammit the 80s were too good to me. (I guess something had to balance out Quarterflash and the other bad 80s acts).

    Well it looks like the years of Going Gobi might finally be over for the red and gold. 6 years after drafting their #1 overall. (And a gazillion coaching changes). Hopefully it’s a sign the 80s’ other top Dynasty is due for a return.

    I think people are putting too much stock in Tambo’s words, as another poster said above. The Oil aren’t winning anything till the kids are strong enough to consisitently win puck battles while taking the tough sledding. Management can bring them more help, to be sure, but at what cost? No team is bending over for anyone else. Getting better than what we have now is going to cost. High level UFAs want a premium to play here. It’s gonna take awhile to get this Oil Supertanker turned around without re-mortgaging the future with risky bets.

  85. sliderule says:

    The oilers are built wrong but it can be fixed.
    Sign an UFA defenceman who can play three or four.
    Trade Hemsky and Gagner for grit forwards who have some skill.You are relying on your pro scouting for this part.
    Bring over Klefbom and play him if ready orAHL.
    Draft the best top five forward with grit.
    Bring in a new coach with HIS assistants to coach a system suitable to our talent

  86. Billy Boisey says:

    Murray is soft …

    The merits of drafting BPA vs. position aside, this is incorrect. As an Everett fan who has seen a lot of Murray in the last two years, soft is not the word to describe Murray. Smart is. But if the greater unwashed masses of Oil fans (the readers here aside) only ever seem to be truly happy w/ old-timey hard-nosed d-men of the Gator school, the org should perhaps avoid the frustration that is bound to come from young Murray’s playing style.

    Murray was routinely the best player on the ice LAST YEAR, never mind this year as a draft eligible player. Against the likes of Portland and numerous other vastly superior teams. He is very aware, mobile, a strong passer/puck distributor, and has a good head for a two-way game. It is true, he does not engage physically as much as some fans might like, but this is partly because is not a huge physical specimen, at roughly 6’1″, but more importantly, he plays a very efficient and aware game, which does not require as much engagement.

  87. pboy says:

    Also, if you haven’t watched the HBO series ‘The Wire’ … Make it happen. Im rewatching the entire series for the 2nd time in 3 years. Probably the pinnacle of television programming.

    I think the 3rd season was my favorite. My wife’s is the 2nd. There wasn’t a bad episode of that show ever in 5 seasons.

  88. hunter1909 says:

    Thanks for the SP on Murray, Billy Boisey.

    Murray really sounds like the perfect guy(Coffey is my all time fave Oiler) for the rush.

    Prior to MacT getting fired, Oilers reminded me of The Caine Mutiny; but this season it’s now more like Moby Dick, considering the front office team.

    PS: How did Lowe manage to keep his job in the big Night of the Long Knives shakeup, and only a couple of old timey equipment managers get the boot? Plus super trainer Chad Moreau, of course. And Kevin Lowe’s brother.

    Oh yeah. Renney’s totally lost the team. I’m a bandwagon Ranger fan that’s seen this before.

  89. sliderule says:

    I respect that you have seen Murray way more than I have.In the wjc I liked his skill but I thought he played a lot like another oiler draft Taylor Chorney.
    As most of our golden ones are away ahead of future drafted defencemen I think we have to pick a forward .We also have Klefbom who is about two months older than Murray and at the wjc played better and stronger.

  90. cabbiesmacker says:


    Sidney Crosby led the Penguins in scoring as a rookie. The next five guys were Sergei Gonchar 31, Mark Recchi 37, John LeClair 36, Ryan Malone 26, Ziggy Palffy 33. Crosby couldn’t have had much more veteran leadership and mentoring. We’ll thus never know if he needed it or not but it couldn’t have hurt given he got 102 points.


    When I used the Pens, Hawks and 80′s Oilers as examples I referred to their cup winning years only. Not too many 30+ types mentoring the Oiler or Hawks kids.

    And RNH would have led this team in scoring as well.

    And and..the older Pens…+30′s you made mention of were actually contributors. Not Horcoffs. We have one. Ryan Smyth.

  91. Gerta Rauss says:

    Also, if you haven’t watched the HBO series ‘The Wire’ … Make it happen. Im rewatching the entire series for the 2nd time in 3 years. Probably the pinnacle of television programming.

    I’m going to watch this on your recommendation danny,but the Larry Sanders show set the bar pretty high for me.

  92. cabbiesmacker says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Horcoff would get you Billy Carter.

    Horcoff wouldn’t get you Nell Carter.

  93. DSF says:

    Maybe June Carter.

  94. Gerta Rauss says:


    I was trying to work Carlene Carter in there…

  95. Billy Boisey says:

    No prob Hunter,

    While not being quite old enough to remember Coffey accurately, I would suggest that Murray is a bit more conservative than Coffey. But to use one of LT’s common descriptors for another young Oiler, Eberle, I think he has a ‘big brain’. He might be a very good complement to Ebs and RNH. FTR, he was used in a more defensive role at WJHCs than he typically plays in Everett, so I would advise caution to those of you out there who are using that as an accurate scouting indicator.

    He CAN play in the NHL next year (to put it in perspective, he is MUCH closer than Marincin, IMO – I have seen them head to head). How successful he will be is dependent on the situation he is in and the mentorship he receives. If ever there was a reason to hope for a moderately healthy Whitney, this would be it.

  96. sliderule says:

    Billy Boisey,

    Well Billy I try to shower every day .The oil have a draft better. than Murray in Klefbom.We don’t need any more soft players we have enough

  97. hunter1909 says:

    Horcoff ? You’d have to pay five dollars to shoot his dog.

  98. hunter1909 says:

    “We don’t need any more soft players we have enough” Kevin Lowe

  99. spoiler says:

    If he gets us Lynda Carter, I’m in, although June probably would do it for me.

  100. Doogie2K says:

    Andrew W:
    Bruce Garrioch wrote today “Don’t be surprised if Jackets C Jeff Carter is gone before the deadline”.He has a reputation as being fairly well connected, although I have no idea how consistently he hits the mark on this type of soft speculation.

    Four words: Malkin to the Kings.

    Four more: Garrioch is a clown. (I wish I could remember which player he was starting shit with a couple of years ago during the playoffs. Actually, wasn’t he advocating running someone on the Penguins? God, I wish I could come up with a name.)

    Doesn’t mean Carter doesn’t want out, or that he can’t be had for the right package, but I’m not going to put that much stock in what he says.

  101. spoiler says:

    The. Refs are determined the 9ers will not win.

  102. Gerta Rauss says:


    -bag skate today
    -comments on Hall’s goalie comment
    -Whitney is 80% and could play tomorrow or Tuesday

  103. bookje says:


    Thanks Danny – A nice assortment of stuff I haven’t seen (with the Exception of Children of Men). I have heard great things about the wire, but have not seen it. From the Wikipedia description, it looks like a show I would enjoy tremendously. OK, great, that appears to be 68 hours covered – that should do me for a month or two. Hopefully the Oilers continue to suck so that I don’t get distracted by having to watch their games.

  104. itsaleaf says:

    At some point, shouldn’t they go back and try the Hall at C experiment?? You’re losing anyway, now’s the time to see if it can work.

    I’d also like to see the kids on the PK. MANY teams have their best players on one of their PK units. In fact, the kids should be used in all situations. The kids are already the best players on the team and need to see as much ice as possible.

    The season is already lost. It’s time for something different.

  105. Gerta Rauss says:

    I’d like to see Paajarvi at Center.

  106. itsaleaf says:

    Kyle williams singe-handedly costs the niners a trip to the super bowl.

    2 punt return fumbles….enjoy your offseason

  107. Lowetide says:

    Which CFL team has Kyle Williams on their neg list? He’s available!

  108. danny says:

    Kyle Williams takes some of the heat off of the Ravens kicker.

    Wow. I’ve been a 9ers fan since I was a kid. tough way to go down. Brutal. Gift wrap Super Bowl trip.

  109. danny says:

    thecaptainkylewilliams. He’s an Eskimo in 2012. FML.

  110. Noodles says:

    Four more: Garrioch is a clown. (I wish I could remember which player he was starting shit with a couple of years ago during the playoffs. Actually, wasn’t he advocating running someone on the Penguins? God, I wish I could come up with a name.)

    Is this what you were referring to, Doogie2K?

  111. DeadmanWaking says:

    The Detroit organization is Arthur De Vany:

    A former professional athlete and life-long student of exercise and metabolism, he is a living example of what he teaches: at the age of 72 he is 6’1″, 205 pounds and has less than 8% body fat. He has lived as a Paleo/Athlete for more than 25 years. … Dr. De Vany is Professor Emeritus of the University of California in economics and mathematical behavioral sciences who is best known for his research in decentralized, complex economic systems and is the author of more than 100 scientific articles and books.

    The Oilers organization is Stephen Fry more or less tracking from his coke machine apogee in October 2006:

    I’m 6ft 5in tall, but 21 stone (294 pounds) is too heavy … [three years later] he looks like a man who has had a fat suit removed.

    He gave up bread and he’s a minor fitness buff now. Next to De Vany, however, he’s still a total chump.

    Going strictly on my presumptions concerning the Katzian inner dialog, I see both Tambi and Renney in place in October next year with no possibility to survive yet another unbalanced roster for more than three months. And I think they both know it.

    On the flip side, I’m not any good at reading the entrails according to the scapegoat code. But then I see no evidence in recent decision making that the scapegoat code has managed to gain sway over the sword of Damocles. According to the hockey code as it applies to fan fora, any mention of Detroit or Chicago is a guillotine invocation, no head spared.

    Another De Vany tidbit:

    He is the author of the most acclaimed book on the movie industry, Hollywood Economics: How Extreme Uncertainty Shapes the Film Industry.

    I would have bought it, but it was too expensive. He basically concludes due to structural factors that there is no way to guarantee a successful movie.

    From BWoAK:

    For the wordless scene in which the Girl seduces Adso ,.. Annaud did not explain to Slater what she would be doing in order to elicit a more authentic performance from the actors.

    After that ruse scorched the heavens, I was disappointed when the arch villain falls to his death and lands histrionically impaled on some kind of pointy cultivator. Sauroman fallen and broken on the pointy wheel was more to my liking. In a Peter Jackson movie, you want that.

    I’m not a member of the “any spike is a good spike” school of management.

  112. Woodguy says:

    Matheson has new article up that talks a bit about Whitney.

    Key parts:

    “I haven’t practised in a month and to have this (test and modified team bag-skate afterwards). I don’t feel great right now. I’m dying,” said Whitney, who reiterated that he’s going to give his weakened ankle one last shot and, if that doesn’t work, he’ll shut it down for the rest of the season.

    “When the season’s done, it’s done. I’ll be seeking second and third opinions. I’m willing to go to the ends of the earth to see if I can fix this,” he said.


  113. bookje says:


    WG – he also said something about hopefully being able to have a career as a guy playing at 80% of his former ability. Given the tendency of people to be optimistic, I wonder if perhaps the best we are looking at is a guy who is 60% his former self and not really an NHLer. Doublesigh.

    Also – why would the coach bag skate a guy on day one – am I missing something?

  114. commonfan14 says:

    Not saying he wasn’t ready.But the logic that it was worse to “poison the well” by keeping him in juniors over making him play for a hopeless team is…questionable.

    Like any kid his age, I’m sure Hall was considerably more happy being a frustrated millionaire NHL player last year than he would have been as a frustrated Junior player.

    I think the “poison the well” issue is completely legit for any kid who knows he was good enough to make the team.

  115. Woodguy says:


    Whitney was practicing with the team today.

    They got bag skated a little at the end.

    Whitney was saying he was 80% before when he was totally ineffective.

  116. oilersfan says:

    Bookje – my favourite show this year is Curb Your Enthusiasm. It has Larry David living his life after making Seinfeld. Very funny. George Costanza is based on him.

    The favourite movie I have seen this year is Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, swedish version. Something about the original country of the author, and subtitiles i always like better than the American version. Reminded me somewhat of Silence of the Lambs.

    Billy BOisey. Could you please tell us more about Ryan Murray?? I have read comparisons of him to Scott Neidermayer and some scouts comparing him to Nik LIdstrom. What do you think of that??

    PLease also compare and contrast him to Marincin. While you may think Murray is more ready , could you please explain in what way, and what is your outlook for Marincin? Do you think MM will be a good NHL’er when he is ready (like first or second pairing??) Maybe they will be an elite pairing together>?

  117. Bruce McCurdy says:

    VOR: Dino Ciccarelli would be hockey’s Pete Rose

    Biggest asshole in his sport?

  118. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Can’t recall who it was up there asked about scoring chances. Barker is currently listed as +17 / -31 in Neilson numbers (individual scoring chances), which believe it or not is the fourth worst ratio on the team, ahead of Whitney, Peckham, & Teubert. Seems about right, they’ve all been brutal.

  119. Billy Boisey says:


    So in the EV v PG games I saw, MM is raw. Really raw. The appeal is undeniable. He has these incredible physical gifts in terms of size and hopefully, eventually, strength that everyone here is aware of. But he needs time to fill out the frame (the few times I have seen him live he looks very much a beanpole), and become more used to the nature and long slog of the NA game. At times he seemed clumsy with the puck and in his decision making, and last season, I didn’t see him until he had cooled off quite a bit offensively; he seemed to be playing a much more cautious game than I had expected based on his first few months here.

    However, I would be tempted to say I may have ‘seen him bad’. I would be willing to write a lot of it off as him perhaps still getting used to his ridiculously huge body AND life in NA/NA hockey. However, the talk of him going to OKC this year was very premature. He NEEDS this adjustment period in the WHL. I can’t really project where he would go (maybe solid 2 pairing EVENTUALLY, if everything works out), but from what I have seen, I would suggest patience. He needs time in the AHL, and strong coaching to put it all together.

    Murray is much more polished. He does not need to make any of these adjustments.

    I like the Niedermayer comparisons for Murray, though he does not have the high-end offensive skill of Nieds. Still, he is probably the most offensively talented player for Everett right now, but that may be as much a statement of the abyssmal nature of this year’s ‘Tips lineup as anything. I know he is a bit of a whipping boy, but he does bare some resemblance to Gilbert on the Oilers. Like I mentioned, smart is the word with this kid. He just always makes the smart, safe decision or play. Not flashy, not physical, just smart. He is always in position in the defensive zone, but is unafraid to jump up and get things going on the cycle. Furthermore, he is a strong passer moving the puck forward on the rush, and has good vision on the PP.

    I don’t know what else to say really; the knock on Murray is not really justified given his style of play, but it is what it is: that he is not as big as some people might like, and not as physical. But the skill is there. When I first saw him at the beginning of last year, I didn’t know anything about him, but thought he had the poise of an already drafted player. When I found out that he was two years away from being drafted, my mind was blown. He had already become the de facto captain last year, when captain Landon Ferraro was injured on and off for most of the season, despite being one of the team’s youngest players. He is very mature, and a very safe pick. Murray might have been underwhelming at WJHCs, but he had been out for almost two months w/ an injury before selection camp, and played only one game before that camp, so he was probably far from peak condition.

    If you want to pin me down on a projection for the two, I would say that if the stars align and he gets good coaching, MM could be a solid two pairing, and that would make me very happy, but he also might not do any better than spot duty in the NHL. Murray on the other hand, as I said, can probably play next season under sheltered conditions. I would say that a two pairing is a safe projection for him, and he COULD be much better…

  120. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Billy Boisey: I know he is a bit of a whipping boy, but he does bare some resemblance to Gilbert on the Oilers

    Thanks, BB. I was making the Gilbert comp from your original description, and there you’ve gone and confirmed it.

  121. Bruce McCurdy says:

    By the way, I wonder if the folks who hate on Gilbert have noticed how well the club has done in his (rare) absence?

  122. Gerta Rauss says:

    thanks for the scouting reports BB

  123. Traktor says:


    Have you ever thought about using a ratios?

    Horcoff +37
    Lander +26

    Compared to

    Horcoff + 1.37
    Lander +1.83


    Gagner +51
    MPS +48

    Compared to

    Gagner +2.2
    MPS +3.4


    Petry -28
    Whitney -31

    Compared to

    Petry -0.22
    Whitney -0.56

    In Petry/Whitney’s case +/- says they are about the same, whereas ratios show that Whitney’s differential is twice as bad. Some pretty big discrepancies and in some cases it doesn’t show who is playing well but rather who is playing a lot.

  124. "Steve Smith" says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    The folks who hate on Gilbert either don’t come around here no more, or are convinced that, with absolutely no warning or historical indicators, Gilbert has suddenly become good this year after being terrible up until this point.

    Traktor: I don’t count draft pedigree as math. Maybe Fletcher does.

  125. Schitzo says:


    Whitney at 80% is probably a solid #3. I think he’s smart enough and dedicated enough to find a way to (mostly) compensate for losing a step. That doesn’t solve the immediate and obvious need for a top pairing D, however. All things being equal, at this point I would happily take 82 games of Whitney at 80% over what we have now. (And I’d take a 35 year old Lubo over all other options, but hey).

    Re: the coach – I have my doubts as to how much the coach actually affects the performance of a team. I find it tough to believe that there’s 30 guys who can teach a system and line match at the NHL level, with a massive drop-off after that. It seems like every time a coach gets canned lately, a deeper look reveals a run of snake eyes in terms of save percentage and shooting percentage. New coach starts when the numbers normal out and he’s a hero. With all that said, however, I’ll concede that the coach likely matters more with a very young team – i.e. Messier sleeping in and missing his flight.

    Re: FPB and Couturier – hell of a player. Would love to know if Philly would have taken Hemsky for the #8 pick on the theory that Hemsky would be more likely to immediately help. Oilers might have just picked Dougie Hamilton instead, but either way. I pray they keep Hemmer, but I wonder how much value he’s lost in the last eight months.

    And finally, to bitch to nobody who cares – this was finally my year in my hockey pool. Gaborik stays healthy, P. Bergeron decides he’d like to win a Selke, Ryan Callahan decides to make it a two-horse race… and I blew my first rounder (15th ov) on Crosby. I talked an obscene amount of smack when he came back and put up a string of multi-point games, and am now eating a deserved amount of crow. (Chalk that one up under “white people problems”)

  126. Billy Boisey says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Yeah, Gilbert is a good comp, which is also why I originally suggested that segments of the fanbase will not have the patience for him.

    Not me though; I think he’s a great pick…

    Anyhow, happy to provide the reports…

  127. Traktor says:


    Lander 1.83
    Horcoff 1.37
    Hopkins 1.30
    Belanger 1.02


    MPS 3.40
    Jones 3.13
    Smyth 2.77
    Eberle 2.60
    Hall 2.44
    Hemsky 2.39
    Eager 2.07
    Petrell 1.39

    MPS creates at a better clip than Hall or Eberle and Lander and Horcoff create at a better clip than RNH


  128. Traktor says:

    Disregard that last post. Should have divided scoring chances with games played and not counted scoring chances against. It still points to the proper depth chart though.

  129. "Steve Smith" says:

    Disregard that last post.

    Way ahead of you.

  130. Ribs says:

    Tommy Gilbert – Drafted 129th overall. Yayyyyy

  131. hunter1909 says:

    Hire Barry Trotz already.

    Talk about the perfect coach to lead the troops to the promised land.

    Was perusing Trotz’s accomplishments, and as it turns out he’s a first class local citizen, as well as being one of the best coaches in hockey.

    I’m sure he won’t come to the Oilers. How many rings has he got?

  132. Hack says:

    FFS, Terry Jones has Tambellini getting extension soon.

  133. hags9k says:

    Kyle Williams for Oilers’ GM.

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