G56 Leafs at Oilers

The Oilers hit the road tonight for their contest at Rexall against the Maple Leafs. From here on in, Oiler fans have just a few things to look forward to: RNH’s return and drive to the Calder, perhaps an additional bullet for Stu (although I don’t think they need it) and most importantly a few more kids graduating to NHL player status.

YOU’RE GOING TO MAKE IT AFTER ALL!

Among the young men who have clearly established themselves as part of the present and future, I’d count:

  1. Taylor Hall
  2. Jordan Eberle
  3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
  4. Sam Gagner
  5. Jeff Petry

That’s a fine list, and added to the veterans we assume to around for a few years (Gilbert, Smid, Smyth, Horcoff, Belanger, Eager) the Oilers have about one half of a roster for 12-13. The key element now is establishing which of the following can show enough in the final stretch to be written in pen for next season’s lineup:

  • Goalie Devan Dubnyk: I like him, but he still gives kevlar rebounds and people who know more than me about goalies suggest he’s slow side to side.
  • Defenseman Corey Potter: Showed well early and earned a contract, but since the injury looks like chaos with a stick.
  • Winger Magnus Paajarvi: If they fail to make a player out of this guy then there’s clearly something wrong. A little shy on the offense, but he has great tools and a aptitude for the defensive side of the ball.
  • Center Anton Lander: Everyone, and I mean everyone, I talk to raves about this guy’s leadership ability and desire. He’s got a little crust too. I sincerely wish we were talking about him doing excellent things in the AHL but that wasn’t to be this season.
  • Defenseman Theo Peckham: It’s not too late but he needs to be better. There was an extended stretch a year ago when Teddy played alongside Gilbert and survived. That’s the high water mark for this player, and if the club can’t find a way to get him to the next level then I think they’ll move him down the road.
  • Defenseman Colten Teubert: The organization has played him for 20 games and I’d suggest the young man has passed Alex Plante on the depth chart. He’ll likely be the “first callup-8th defenseman” next season which (for the Oilers) should be good for 40-50 games.
  • Winger Linus Omark: The modern David Vyborny may have to go back to Europe in order to get noticed by another team, but there’s still time for the Oilers to give him a nice long run in the majors. If Edmonton trades Hemsky for bullets from broadway and doesn’t callup Omark then we’re really looking at an addled organization.

That’s what I’ll be looking for.

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218 Responses to "G56 Leafs at Oilers"

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  1. nelson88 says:

    Wish I got this one on t.v. Would love to see the Oilers stick it to the Leafs and push them closer to #9 in the East. Go Oilers! Go Jets!

    What is Teubert’s waiver status for 2012-13? Would be great to see him develop further in the AHL with call up duty but is that possible without exposing him?

  2. Woodguy says:

    I think this game is very winnable.

    TOR lost last night in CAL and by all reports were a disaster in their own zone.

    Being at home C.Montgomery Renney should get the match ups he wants.

    If Frankenuef plays against the kids, I’d expect a good night from 91-10-83 (assuming the sideburns are trimmed)

    It should be a track meet and TOR will get their chances. If Potter is out with his pubis thing and Barker draws in, it won’t help the cause. Maybe Teddy Peckman comes in for Potter?

    EDM is actually a slight betting favorite at -125 to TOR -105, I think that’s about right.

    Should be fun to watch.

    Go OIlers!!

  3. peeps says:

    Lowetide:

    •Winger Magnus Paajarvi: If they fail to make a player out of this guy then there’s clearly something wrong. A little shy on the offense, but he has great tools and a aptitude for the defensive side of the ball.

    I know this has been beaten a lot around here, but I still think Magnus could make a great defenceman. However, if he’s going to try that experiment, I’m assuming it would be better to test him on the D down in the AHL…

  4. Woodguy says:

    Here’s a tale of two RW since the lockout.
    Both players have been the best players on shitty teams.

    Player A:
    495gp – 431pts 0.870pts/gm
    Salary 7.6MM/yr locked in for 6 more years
    28 years old at TC 2012
    Having an off year scoring .684pts/gm, but has been healthy all year.

    Player B:

    402gp – 355pts 0.883pts/gm
    Salary was 4.1MM/yr – Free Agent looking for 5-6 year deal
    29 years old at TC 2012
    Having an off year scoring 0.571pts/gm, coming off of major shoulder surgery. (the same surgery that many NHLers have gone through and not re-injured by the way)

    Player A is considered a franchise player and NHL teams are looking at giving up 3 good to very good players to get him.

    Player B has bad body language and doesn’t like to practice after practice and some aren’t sure he’s worth a $5MM/yr contract.

    Nutty isn’t it?

    I get that Hemsky’s recent injuries bring his value down a bit, but the different narratives between the two players is ridiculous given the results.

    Maybe being 6’4″ Canadian and not a 6’0″ Czech has something to do with it, but the results are the results.

    I’d even go so far as to say Nash has played with slightly better players than Hemsky over that span.

    Darren Dreger was just on the TEAM1260 morning show talking about Franchise Cornerstone player Rick Nash being available for trade and what it would take to get him.

    Then he mentioned Hemsky’s “glimpses of good play that you don’t see enough”.

    Wow.

    Narratives are a powerful thing.

    I do 4 years 5.5MM for Hemsky if he’d sign it.

  5. peeps says:

    But Woodguy, Hemsky may be 6 ft, but he plays much smaller. (insert angry bookie-thing)

    Sigh… I’m going to miss that bad-attitude practice-truant

  6. Clay says:

    Like it or not, but I think Jones is inked in going forward as well.

    As much as I don’t trust Mr. Tambellini, I don’t think enough props have been given regarding how he made such a lopsided deal for Dustin Penner. 19 points in 62 games now for the Kings. Darryl Sutter now calling him out:

    Money quote: “Los Angeles Kings coach Darryl Sutter was asked what Dustin Penner needed to demonstrate to get back into the lineup heading into Thursday’s game against the visiting Phoenix Coyotes. The slumping left wing, the fourth-highest paid player on the team this season at $4.25 million, was a healthy scratch the last two games. “Work your (butt) off, then you get a chance to play again,” Sutter said. “If you don’t, you don’t.”"

    I get a real kick when I see people say we should sign Penner in the off-season. How quickly they forget.

  7. DBO says:

    Woodguy: take away the canadian thing, but look at the 6’4 thing, not as injury prone and can be more physical. It’s the white whale , magic beans, etc.. That is the big power forward. I think we would all take Nash over Hemsky straight up, I guess he real question becomes is Nash $2.8 million per year better then hemsky? They contribute at the same rate, are probably the same in their own zone, and both have barely played playoffs. If not for Hemsky’s shoulder I think this deal is done.

    The other comparison would be who fits better? Assuming we have the [4 kids (Gagner is still a kid) on the top 2 lines, then is Nash a better fit when added to our other players? I love the idea of Nash with RNH. Let Gagner-Hall-Eberle stay together, then have RNH-Nash-? and you have 2 scary lines. One of them will feast on 2nd toughs. The issue becomes if it’s MPS there it would be great, but I assume MPS is at the heart of any deal for Nash so he would be gone.

    It’s fun to imagine, but it’s a pipe dream as I doubt we are on the approved list anyways. The real benefit may be that whoever loses out on Nash (and Ruutu’s injury) means if they are hell bent on moving Hemsky he may fetch a better return.

  8. sliderule says:

    Nash has averaged 77games over the past 5 seasons.Assuming he keeps on being injury free he is being paid about 99000 per game

    Hemsky has averaged 55 games per season over past five seasons.Assuming he averages the same number of games and paying the same amount per game it would work out to 5.5 million per year.

    Do you think Hemsky or oil could agree to that?

  9. hags9k says:

    I agree to an extent about the power of narratives out there, but I’ll still take Nash by a mile.

    An extra 93 GP is nothing to sneeze at over that stretch and his 219 G to Hemmer’s 100 is something you left out.

    Call me crazy but I do factor in 6’4″. Quite a bit actually. The 6’0″ guy seems to be getting hurt a lot.

    Another very good post Woodguy but it’s still Nash by a mile for me but you did take me down from country mile.

    I’d offer 4.75 for 2 years. (Until RNH is due his new deal)

    Here’s hoping Tambo can get something like that done but if not and he is dealt I won’t worry about it for very long. I’ll be pretty quick off the ice so to speak.

  10. nelson88 says:

    Woodguy: Here’s a tale of two RW since the lockout.Both players have been the best players on shitty teams.Player A:495gp – 431pts 0.870pts/gmSalary 7.6MM/yr locked in for 6 more years28 years old at TC 2012Having an off year scoring .684pts/gm, but has been healthy all year.Player B:402gp – 355pts 0.883pts/gmSalary was 4.1MM/yr – Free Agent looking for 5-6 year deal29 years old at TC 2012Having an off year scoring 0.571pts/gm, coming off of major shoulder surgery. (the same surgery that many NHLers have gone through and not re-injured by the way)Player A is considered a franchise player and NHL teams are looking at giving up 3 good to very good players to get him.Player B has bad body language and doesn’t like to practice after practice and some aren’t sure he’s worth a $5MM/yr contract.Nutty isn’t it?I get that Hemsky’s recent injuries bring his value down a bit, but the different narratives between the two players is ridiculous given the results.Maybe being 6’4″ Canadian and not a 6’0″ Czech has something to do with it, but the results are the results.I’d even go so far as to say Nash has played with slightly better players than Hemsky over that span.Darren Dreger was just on the TEAM1260 morning show talking about Franchise Cornerstone player Rick Nash being available for trade and what it would take to get him.Then he mentioned Hemsky’s “glimpses of good play that you don’t see enough”.Wow.Narratives are a powerful thing.I do 4 years 5.5MM for Hemsky if he’d sign it.

    WG, you make some valid points but I’ll take a shot at the difference between Nash and Hemsky as this Hemsky love is becoming a little bit irrational.

    they both have played 8 full NHL seasons prior to this year (excluded here). Nash has played an average of 74 games a season with 2 – 40 goal seasons and an average of 32 goals per season. Hemsky has played an average of 61 games a season with 2 – 20 goals seasons and an average of 14 goals a season.

  11. DSF says:

    Woodguy,

    Woodguy…you answered your own question.

    GP: Hemsky – 532, Nash – 649

    Goals: Hemsky – 118, Nash – 277

    Goal scorers are ALWAYS paid more than players who are primarily set up men because scoring a goal is the hardest thing in hockey. There are, after all, two assists available on every goal.

    When you combine Nash’s size, age, durability and goal scoring prowess, this isn’t even close.

  12. Traktor says:

    Rick Nash

    2002 17 goals
    2003 41 goals
    2004 lockout
    2005 31 goals
    2006 27 goals
    2007 27 goals
    2008 38 goals
    2009 40 goals
    2010 33 goals
    2011 32 goals
    2012 18 goals

    Over the last decade he is one of the best goal scorers in the league, averaging 35 goals per 82

    Hemsky is averaging 18 goals per 82.

  13. Clay says:

    So the Oilers website lists Potter out with a groin injury and Peckham still suffering from that sinus injury (wtf?). So, lucky for us, we get to enjoy another Cam Barker fiasco.

    It’s tough to win when you spot the opposition three goals like that.

  14. nelson88 says:

    I posted this at the end of last night’s discussion. Agree with Traktor that someone will pay Hemsky but Havlat is a much better comp then Nash and when viewed in that context I think it is worth it.

    “Havlat has been brought up a couple of times and he would seem to be a pretty good comparison.

    UFA at similar ages, similar stats (Havlat’s maybe slightly better due to goal scoring), shoulder surgeries and his incumbent team (Blackhawks) not wanting to sign him long-term. Minnesota is desperate to add offense after Gaborik bolts and pays Havlat $5M x 6 years. His stats in the first two years of the deal are ok (approx. .75pts/gm) and this year he has mostly been injured. If he lights up the playoffs for SJ the deal has a chance to look good but frankly the return to date on $5M/year is not stellar

    Of course we could always lock Hemmer up for $5M x 6 and then trade him for Danny Heatley….”

  15. copperblueandwhite says:

    Woodguy,

    Ditto Woodguy…Oilers should win this …I watched the CGY-TOR game..and TO was bad in its own end but Kipper was the differenc.e…if Dubnyk holds up the Oilers will be ok…it would be nice to see a trouncing…as much as everyone talks about Nash, I would like to see Getzlaf playing here…he`s only a $5million+ cap hit but reminds me of Gordie Howe. You wouldn`t see Carcillo type goons taking liberties with him around…..I am sure hoping we are all wrong and Hemmer signs a 4 yr $20m deal.

  16. DBO says:

    The Havlat thing just scared me. Not that he isn’t a solid player, but that it is clear some team will give Hemsky a 5 yr deal over $4.1 mill (current salary). He is definitely gone, since no way his agent lets him sign for 2 years. And Tambellini very clearly is not looking for long term since he is afraid of the cost of the kids in 2 or 3 years. They want 5, and will get it from someone. Columbus will have money, so will Florida (even after the deals last summer) so will the isles. Guaranteed the Islanders offer him multiple years, since it will mean Tavares gets a guy who has a high skill level. Book it, Hemsky 5 years $5 mill to the isles. Sad. bye bye Hemmer, thanks for the hard work, for being the only guy worth watching for a long time. Shoulder injury was bad timing. Go get healthy, get 60 pts a year and have fun.

  17. Mr DeBakey says:

    what Dustin Penner needed to demonstrate to get back into the lineup

    Do these numbers tell us anything about what he needs?
    2006-2007 - 14.2
    2007-2008 - 11.4
    2008-2009 - 12.4
    2009-2010 – 15.8
    2010-2011 – 13.3
    2011-2012 – 6.8

    Also, Hemsky isn’t making $4.1, he’s making $5. And his contract was signed when the Cap limit was under $40.

  18. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hags9k,

    Because it’s not like big guys never get injured too right? It’s not like the stereotypical power forward of the modern age (Lindros) didn’t struggle to stay in the lineup.

    Size does a lot of things in hockey, but prevent injury… I would guess it has a marginal impact at best. But, I’d be open to counterarguments.

  19. rickithebear says:

    Players are paid for 100% season.
    I believe curent p/Gm measure is inaccurate.
    it only looks at the healthy games. MASSIVE FAIL.. A season is 82 Games.
    Your points production should be measured in the games for the season.
    With the games you miss getting a 0 for G A P. True Scientific Data.
    So since the start of the lockout.
    Edm has played 547 games CBJ 549
    The last 4 years EDM 301GM CBJ 303

    It is allso important to look at the goal % of point production. A rough look says that high goals scorers recieve 30% higher contracts than low goal production players of equal point production.

    Player A:
    Played 495 of 549 GM. he plays 90%
    549 games– 219G .399Goals/GM 431pts 0.785pts/gm

    Last 4 years played 286 of 303GM 94% games played
    303GM – 123G .406Goals/GM 251P .828Pts/gm

    Salary 7.6MM/yr locked in for 6 more years
    28 years old at TC 2012
    Played 57/57GM 100%
    Having an off year scoring
    18G .316Goals/GM 39P .684pts/gm,.

    Player B:
    Since lockout: Played 402 of 547GM. He plays 73% of team games.
    547GM – 100G .183goals/GM 355pts 0.649pts/gm

    Last 4 seasons played 183 of 301GM 61%
    301 – 48G .159Goals/GM 154P .512P/GM

    Salary was 4.1MM/yr – Free Agent looking for 5-6 year deal
    29 years old at TC 2012
    Played 42/55GM 76% of games. Consistent for Career.
    4G .073 Goals/GM 24P .436P/GM
    Having an off year scoring , coming off of major shoulder surgery.
    (the same surgery that many NHLers have gone through and not re-injured by the way)

    Player A is considered a franchise player and NHL teams are looking at giving up 3 good to very good players to get him. His salary is about 2.1M to high for the average salary of 5.5M for 30-39G forwards. But Desperate GM make Desperate moves to retain Goals scorers that are hard to replace.

    Player B:
    Is a low Goal (<20G) high Assit player (avg Salary 4.3M) who's was considered the teams best player. Has since been Passed by others on the soft Offensive and 1st PP role.Needs to have double the goal production/gm to be considered in the 20-25G high assist players who are paid 5.75M AVG. A player who's career average has never deivered on Current 4.1M contract. Common sense says give him 80% of current contract (3.3M/yr) you will get a break even production.

    Some think he’s worth a $5M/yr contract.

    Nutty isn’t it?

    EDIT: Damn you DSF.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    sliderule:
    Nash has averaged 77games over the past 5 seasons.Assuming he keeps on being injury free he is being paid about 99000 per game

    Hemsky has averaged 55 games per season over past five seasons.Assuming he averages the same number of games and paying the same amount per game it would work out to 5.5 million per year.

    Do you think Hemsky or oil could agree to that?

    But your comment — 55 games averaged over 5 years — depends on including two years crippled by season ending injury: a relatively rare event, even in Hemsky’s career.

    Unless you assume he is bound to suffer the same fate again and again (which is possible), it makes more sense to use his “full” seasons as a barometer. Therefore, barring major injury you can expect him to play 72.4 games (excluding rookie season, last two years and current season). His current year (projected at 69 games if he completes) would fit in that region.

  21. Captain Obvious says:

    Clay,

    Tell me again how that was a lopsided deal? Teubert is nothing and Klefbom is years away from being something (maybe). I sign Penner in a heartbeat. In fact he’d be my #1 offseason target. I don’t care what Darryl Sutter says about his perceptions of work ethic. Penner moves the play in the right direction and has a track record of scoring. I’ll take that on my team any day and he’ll be available at a discount.

    I also sign Hemsky to a 5/5M deal tomorrow. I’d do 5/5.5 M as well.

    Penner and Hemsky are good hockey players who can play against top competition and help your team win. People who don’t recognize this have no business running hockey teams.

  22. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    DSF,

    Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

    Woodguy’s point is pretty clear. I don’t read him as saying Hemsky = or is > Nash… but saying that when you compare the raw numbers and attributes that differentiate the two players with the rhetoric people use to describe the players (the narratives surrounding each player) perception “isn’t even close” to reality.

    Argue with him on topic or start a new one. Red herrings and straw men don’t fly.

  23. hags9k says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Have another glance at their games played. I would say being smaller and weaker has certainly limited far far more hockey players due to injury than those who are bigger and stronger. Of course big guys are not immune to injuries, but your Lindros argument goes more to playing style. Playing rock em sock em will take a toll but two guys playing a similar style, my money is on the big guy being out of the lineup less.

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    rickithebear,

    I said this before and I’ll say it again. No one is payed to play 100% of the games. That is an unreasonable standard for a fast-paced contact sport played on a slippery surface.

    To follow up on that, there have been just 19 players who have managed to play 75 games or more in each of the last six seasons. If you lower the threshold to 60, the number jumps to 104. There just aren’t that many guys both good enough and healthy enough to play a full schedule year after year.

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/11/2791867/oilers-v-senators-1-kings-20-1-4

    And why you think it’s reasonable to look at total season production but ignore PPG is beyond me. If every time someone is on the ice they produce but aren’t on the ice very often that matters to me and everyone else in hockey. Does that mean it doesn’t matter that that player misses a great deal of games and may in the future? Show me an argument that claims that and we can go challenge it together. Until then leave your straw men at home.

  25. nathan says:

    “Common sense says give him 80% of current contract (3.3M/yr) you will get a break even production”

    rickithebear,

    If GM’s wore skates it would be worse than Hall at warmup with the GMs climbing over each other to get that 3.3M contract.

    “When did you last eat? You know, food”

  26. DSF says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I get that Hemsky’s recent injuries bring his value down a bit, but the different narratives between the two players is ridiculous given the results.

    Thing is…the difference in narratives is not only close to reality…it IS reality.

    The numbers show it in BOLD.

    Argue the numbers or not but, otherwise, exercise your right to combine sex with travel.

  27. rickithebear says:

    “”Unless you assume he is bound to suffer the same fate again and again (which is possible), it makes more sense to use his “full” seasons as a barometer.”"

    This kills me! Every season is a full season. Hemsky just participates about 60- 75% of the Time lately.

  28. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hags9k,

    But that is the problem with individual players. Outside of his two years of major injury trouble Hemsky played the vast majority of his games. Looking at two players alone doesn’t help. I could just as easily say look at Malkin vs. Crosby’s GP: clearly European players play more than Canadian.

    But in general I think you are right, if marginally. Big players probably have less injury trouble. It would be interesting to see if anyone has any actual data on this:

    Are everyday players above a certain height and weight more or less likely to lose games to injury?

    It would also be interesting, since you mention style of play, to take that into account. It is often claimed that drivers of SUVs, trucks etc. are “safer” in accidents because of the size of their vehicle. However, it is also claimed that they are more prone to accidents because the have an inflated sense of protection and drive more recklessly. I wonder if there is a parallel for sports injuries (pick your sport).

  29. jake70 says:

    After the reports/interviews yesterday, I wonder if Hemksy’s role on the team (go to guy, 1st PP etc) is as much a problem as it appears term/dollars are on a new deal/arrangement with the Oil. I personally like any of 14,93, 89 better as the half-boards guy on the PP.

  30. bookje says:

    Clay:
    Like it or not, but I think Jones is inked in going forward as well.

    As much as I don’t trust Mr. Tambellini, I don’t think enough props have been given regarding how he made such a lopsided deal for Dustin Penner.19 points in 62 games now for the Kings.Darryl Sutter now calling him out:

    Money quote: “Los Angeles Kings coach Darryl Sutter was asked what Dustin Penner needed to demonstrate to get back into the lineup heading into Thursday’s game against the visiting Phoenix Coyotes. The slumping left wing, the fourth-highest paid player on the team this season at $4.25 million, was a healthy scratch the last two games.“Work your (butt) off, then you get a chance to play again,” Sutter said. “If you don’t, you don’t.””

    I get a real kick when I see people say we should sign Penner in the off-season.How quickly they forget.

    This also counters a bit of the narrative that MacT and Renney somehow ’caused’ Penner to be less succesful than he would be elsewhere. I am not suggesting that there are no coaches that could not get more out of Penner, but clearly, MacT and Renney did better than at least one other NHL coach.

  31. nathan says:

    “I wonder if Hemksy’s role on the team (go to guy, 1st PP etc) is as much a problem as it appears term/dollars are on a new deal/arrangement with the Oil.”

    jake70,

    They are connected. Top bidder on length and cap hit probably will likely use him #1 PP.

  32. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    DSF: Thing is…the difference in narratives is not only close to reality…it IS reality.

    The numbers show it in BOLD.

    Argue the numbers or not but, otherwise, exercise your right to combine sex with travel.

    Why did you quote Woodguy but respond to me? curious

    Anyway, if you think the difference in numbers warrants the difference in perception as evident from these two statements:

    Nash = “Franchise Cornerstone”
    Hemsky = “glimpses of good play that you don’t see enough”

    Then I imagine your everyday encounters lead to a great deal of misunderstandings.

    X: “DSF, how far away is the cornerstore?”
    DSF: “Put your spacesuit on we’re going for a trip!”

    X: “DSF, how much better is coke than pepsi”
    DSF: “Coke is the nectar of the gods, whereas Pepsi is some kind of crack house detritus mixed with sugar and carbonation”

    X: “DSF, who do you think is smarter Bruce Banner or Reed Richards?”
    DSF: “Reed Richards is so much smarter than Bruce Banner that he makes Banner look the Hulk!”

  33. spoiler says:

    I think it’s funny that Penner can be criticized and called out for his work ethic, but when the same standard is applied to Hemsky, it makes no sense. And again, I’m not advocating trade Hemsky because of this issue, I’m only trying to guess at why Tambo wants to trade him.

    Judging from the Sportsnet piece last night, the two sides don’t sound close together. And that likely has a more to do with role and injury than any other factor (as Jake points out above). Do you pay Hemsky like a 1st line guy and PP Runner? Is he going to be that guy? Then how much do you pay him? If he won’t sign for that, do you go get what the trade market will bear?

    Romulus… w.r.t. size and injury, I personally would go with thickness of joints (I don’t and have spent a lot of time on crutches from playing sports).

    WG worse than in their own end, there was no attempt by the Leafs to stop anything coming through the neutral zone. It was a pretty back-and-forth wide-open game. I can’t see Wilson letting them play like that two nights in a row.

  34. bookje says:

    Captain Obvious:
    Clay,

    Tell me again how that was a lopsided deal?Teubert is nothing and Klefbom is years away from being something (maybe).I sign Penner in a heartbeat.In fact he’d be my #1 offseason target.I don’t care what Darryl Sutter says about his perceptions of work ethic. Penner moves the play in the right direction and has a track record of scoring.I’ll take that on my team any day and he’ll be available at a discount.

    I also sign Hemsky to a 5/5M deal tomorrow.I’d do 5/5.5 M as well.

    Penner and Hemsky are good hockey players who can play against top competition and help your team win.People who don’t recognize this have no business running hockey teams.

    So, Penner will be available as a Value contract because 30 NHL GM’s think he is of limited value, but you would sign him in a heartbeat because he is so valuable?

    Tuebert is nothing? Some are suggesting that he might be an NHLer who is years away from NHL free agency. Klefbom is ‘years away’ so therefore has no value? That argument would suggest that all prospects and picks are worthless which is simply not true.

    Don’t forget the 3rd round pick that the Oilers have for this year. I am betting that Lombardi would happily trade Penner back to the Oilers for that pick alone (or a free coffee for that matter).

    At the time, I think it was fine to call the trade ‘even’, but in retrospect, I think its clear that this was a good trade by the Oilers. One questionable prospect, a first round pick and a third round pick for a player that has come nowhere near his contract value (and who was only under contract for 1.3 years at the time).

    I like Penner and actually thought (and posted) that he would do really well in LA – but he has clearly demonstrated that he has some issues. As a GM, perhaps those are issues you don’t want on your team?

  35. bookje says:

    spoiler:
    I think it’s funny that Penner can be criticized and called out for his work ethic, but when the same standard is applied to Hemsky, it makes no sense.And again, I’m not advocating trade Hemsky because of this issue, I’m only trying to guess at why Tambo wants to trade him.

    Judging from the Sportsnet piece last night, the two sides don’t sound close together.And that likely has a more to do with role and injury than any other factor (as Jake points out above).Do you pay Hemsky like a 1st line guy and PP Runner?Is he going to be that guy?Then how much do you pay him?If he won’t sign for that, do you go get what the trade market will bear?

    Romulus… w.r.t. size and injury, I personally would go with thickness of joints (I don’t and have spent a lot of time on crutches from playing sports).

    WGworse than in their own end, there was no attempt by the Leafs to stop anything coming through the neutral zone.It was a pretty back-and-forth wide-open game.I can’t see Wilson letting them play like that two nights in a row.

    The coaches that Penner have played for have basically called him fat and lazy (four coaches have done this). The coaches that Hemsky have played for have said he is a hard worker. Those critisizing Hemsky’s work ethic are basing it on ‘body language’, ‘tone in interviews’, and ‘the order in which he leaves the ice following practice’.

    One of those things is more credible than the other.

  36. bookje says:

    jake70:
    After the reports/interviews yesterday, I wonder if Hemksy’s role on the team (go to guy, 1st PP etc) is as much a problem as it appears term/dollars are on a new deal/arrangement with the Oil.I personally like any of 14,93, 89 betteras the half-boards guy on the PP.

    Added to that might be that the team feels that it can’t keep both Hemsky and Omark. Clearly Omark is not Hemsky (one a proven NHL performer, the other a maybe), but it is one factor influencing the decision.

  37. LMHF#1 says:

    It is plainly obvious if you actually, you know, watch the games, that Hemsky doesn’t have an effort or commitment problem. This likely explains why many of the supposed journalists covering the hockey team head in that direction. They love to write about Ryan Jones and prospects but rarely say much about the guys that get it done mainly based on talent application. Truly a lovely group :s

  38. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    rickithebear:
    “”Unless you assume he is bound to suffer the same fate again and again (which is possible), it makes more sense to use his “full” seasons as a barometer.””

    This kills me! Every season is a full season. Hemsky just participates about 60- 75% of the Time lately.

    “Every season is a full season”

    What does this mean in practical terms for evaluating performance going forward. I’m genuinely curious to see how you will answer this.

    To my knowledge no one uses this metric and if they did the entire employment market and insurance industry would come to a confusing halt.

    Who doesn’t distinguish between “normal” rates of performance which account for minor loses of both time on the job and performance due to injury, illness, grievance, whatever and “aberrations from the norm” in terms of loses of both time on the job and performance due to serious injury, long term illness, psychological issues, substance abuse, pregnancy, etc.?

    You think that when an employer sits down with a women coming off of mat leave they evaluate their total rate of production DURING THEIR ABSENCE?

    “Well, Susie your production over the last five years is modest at best and doesn’t merit a raise”
    “But I was on mat leave for a whole year, why are you including that year? Of course I was unproductive during that year, I wasn’t here!”
    “Right, but we were here and you’re performance was very bad that year”
    “I was on mat leave!”
    “It was a FULL YEAR around here”

    Insurance, warranties, employment contracts of all stripes operate on the assumption that “NORMAL” conditions hold for the great majority of cases. It is a simple actuarial matter. Aberrations are paid for by the vast majority of normal cases carrying on normally. To fail to distinguish between normal and aberrational conditions is absurd.

  39. bookje says:

    LMHF#1: Wait a minute, are you suggesting that actual effort, willingness to go into the tough areas of the ice and take hits, playing against the toughest quality of competition, and having one of the top points/60 ration of NHL right wingers somehow counters the ‘body language’ and/or the unconfirmed but damning order of leaving ice after practice (OLIAP stats) argument?
    What the hell are you talking about?

    Wait a minute, are you suggesting that actual effort, willingness to go into the tough areas of the ice and take hits, playing against the toughest quality of competition, and having one of the top points/60 ration of NHL right wingers somehow counters the ‘body language’ and/or the unconfirmed but damning order of leaving ice after practice (OLIAP stats) argument?

    What the hell are you talking about?

  40. commonfan14 says:

    DBO: The Havlat thing just scared me. Not that he isn’t a solid player, but that it is clear some team will give Hemsky a 5 yr deal over $4.1 mill (current salary).

    Havlat was coming off his best season (81 GPs, 77 PTS) and a spectacular playoff run (16 GPs, 15 PTS) when he got that deal from the WIld. Hemsky is curretly having a terrible season at a time when he should be ultra-motivated to produce.

    Havlat has also regressed since he signed that deal and is now hurt again.

    Their situations are not at all comparable, and Havlat’s deal is doing nothing to provide an incentive for teams to take a chance on a chronically injured player.

    Gaborik is a better comp, since he missed almost all of his contract year. However, he is primarily a sniper rather than a set-up man, has a generally higher upside than Hemsky, and was only one year removed from his best season. Hemsky is 6 years removed from his (6!).

  41. LMHF#1 says:

    bookje: Wait a minute, are you suggesting that actual effort, willingness to go into the tough areas of the ice and take hits, playing against the toughest quality of competition, and having one of the top points/60 ration of NHL right wingers somehow counters the ‘body language’ and/or the unconfirmed but damning order of leaving ice after practice (OLIAP stats) argument?

    What the hell are you talking about?

    I am a crazy person.

  42. Captain Obvious says:

    bookje,

    Teubert is nothing. He’s just taking up space. You can play him or sign Sutton and guys like Sutton are available every year. The only value Teubert provides is that you can send him down to the minors when you need to. That’s the essence of damning with faint praise.

    A third round pick is also nothing. What’s the hit rate for good hockey players in the third round? It has to be under 10%.

    That leaves Klefbom. Time will tell but his best case scenario is Smid. I’ll take that but this isn’t a big return for two seasons of a 30 goal scorer.

  43. Clay says:

    Captain Obvious:
    Clay,

    Tell me again how that was a lopsided deal?Teubert is nothing and Klefbom is years away from being something (maybe).I sign Penner in a heartbeat.In fact he’d be my #1 offseason target.I don’t care what Darryl Sutter says about his perceptions of work ethic. Penner moves the play in the right direction and has a track record of scoring.I’ll take that on my team any day and he’ll be available at a discount.

    I also sign Hemsky to a 5/5M deal tomorrow.I’d do 5/5.5 M as well.

    Penner and Hemsky are good hockey players who can play against top competition and help your team win.People who don’t recognize this have no business running hockey teams.

    BOOKJE beat me to saying it, but one year after the trade, my guess is Lombardi would reverse it in a heartbeat if he could, Tambo would laugh at the suggestion. Also, what would one of the other 28 GMs give for Penner right now? Exactly.

    At the time of the trade, the return on Penner seemed fair, and kudos for Tambo for selling high.

  44. pboy says:

    Captain Obvious: bookje, Teubert is nothing. He’s just taking up space. You can play him or sign Sutton and guys like Sutton are available every year. The only value Teubert provides is that you can send him down to the minors when you need to. That’s the essence of damning with faint praise.A third round pick is also nothing. What’s the hit rate for good hockey players in the third round? It has to be under 10%. That leaves Klefbom. Time will tell but his best case scenario is Smid. I’ll take that but this isn’t a big return for two seasons of a 30 goal scorer.

    They didn’t get a 30 goal scorer. He’s been terrible for the Kings. Based on Penner’s perfomance, the Kings got fleeced on that deal.

    Interesting thread today. WG’s point about the narrative used on Nash and Hemmer reminds me of something similiar in the NBA awhile ago. Kevin Garnett was considered a Superstar because of the gawdy numbers he put up (and his outrageous contract) but his team rarely made the playoffs and his supporting cast took most of the blame. Near the end of his time in Minnesota some of the national MSM started saying that maybe Garnett wasn’t a superstar who could win championships but more of a super-role player who was paid like a Superstar and he needed to be on a team where he wasn’t a #1 option. He ended up going to the Celtics and becoming their 3rd option on offense and success followed.

    Neither Nash or Hemsky are premier players in the NHL but Nash has that reputation. He’s a very good player but he isn’t at the Crosby, Malkin, Lidstrom, Phanuef (just kidding), Stamkos level. I’ve always thought that Hemsky was a much better player than he got credit from the MSM but IMO he would be better served not being he primary scoring option on a team but instead be a killer on a secondary line. Edmonton should be a good fit for him going forward but if he’s looking for a long term deal (and he should be), I wouldn’t be comfortable putting more than 3 years on the board because of his injury past. Some GM is going to look very smart or possible unemployed over a big Hemsky contract this summer.

  45. nathan says:

    “It’s your life. The security you can have signing a long-term deal, that’s probably the best option you can do”
    “I’ve been here for a long time, for 10 years and worked hard to become a free agent.”

    With the wide range of opinions on what the team needs and the guy can get elsewhere, I like to see the over/under on this board.

    What avg. cap hit can Hemsky get from the top bidder over 5 years?
    What avg. cap hit would you offer for 5 years if you were the Oilers GM?
    What avg. cap hit would Katz & team go up to for 5 years?

    My take. 5.5, 5.0, 4.5. Too far apart to agree to anything. A GM without the Oiler’s powerplay options takes on the risks the Oilers and Hemsky won’t. My #1 reason he’s gone: cap hits can’t be front loaded.

  46. pboy says:

    I’d give Hemsky 3 years / 15.5 million. I think there is a 5 year deal out there for him, north of 5.5 million a year. Florida, Columbus and NYI would be the prime suspects in my mind with L.A. being another team who could be very interested.

  47. neojanus says:

    Quick question here:

    What are the cap rules regarding a ridiculously front-loaded contract? Are there rules regarding how much a player’s salary can fall from one year to the next?

    If not, why not sign Hemsky to a hilariously front-loaded contract for next year and then have that number drastically fall after that for a middling cap hit? That way the cap hit stays down for when young players need to be re-signed and Hemsky gets his long-term deal.

    Imagine a scenario where Hemsky is paid 10 million dollars next year and then only 2.5 million for three years after that for a cap hit of just over 4 million over four years.

    Don’t bite my head off on this idea… it is more a hypothetical question.

  48. bookje says:

    Captain Obvious: t taking up space

    Let me be clear – your arguments are Klefbomb, Tuebert and a 3rd round pick are nothing based upon the evidence “because I say so” and the Oilers traded away two seasons of a 30 goal scorer (which actually consists of one and a third season of a projected 7 goal scorer) because Penner once got thirty goals in his career.

    I would actually be OK with the Oilers signing Penner to a value contract – mostly because I suspect that they are familiar with whatever issues he brings, but your evaluation of the trade suggests that you might just be Dustin Penner’s mom.

  49. nathan says:

    “Imagine a scenario where Hemsky is paid 10 million dollars next year and then only 2.5 million for three years after that for a cap hit of just over 4 million over four years.”

    Neojanus, Main problem would be other GM’s offering more than 16M over 4. One place where cap creativity could surface is a GM who’s willing to go 5 years going even longer with as much drop off as the NHL will accept to drive down the cap hit.

  50. rickithebear says:

    Nathan: Gm’s all fight for the player. The smart ones sign players to fill roles at the Cheap.

    Yes hemsky will get 5M.

    Right now there are alot of people I respect for thier insight here, wanting our GM to be one of those fools.

    Thru years of poor drafting, trades, we unloaded our Developing veteran Core.
    Age 24-32 1999-2005 Draft
    Comrie (99), Winchester (00), Hemsky (01), Greene (02), Stoll (02), JDD (02), Storitini (03), Brodziak (03), Dubnyk (04), Cogliano (05)

    Comrie Got us Woywitka, Schremp, Syvret
    Lynch and Woywitka were part of Pronger trade.
    Greene and Stoll lead to Whitney.
    Brodziak got us Bigos & Roy
    Cogliano got us 2nd in 2013

    Know getting rid of hemsky goes against the need to retain our 25-32base. but next year we will have.
    FWD: jones, Eager, Petrell, Omark, Omara
    Defence: Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Petry, Potter

    We are keeping Cheap Fwd from this core.
    And Retaining low priced over 32 players on the cheap and horcoff.
    Smyth???, Belanger, 1.75m, Sutton 1.75, and Horcoff.

    The money will need to be paid to the youth and Defence.
    Smyth(3.0)-RNH(5.75)-Eberle(5.5)
    Hall(5.5)-Gagner(3.5)-XXX
    MP(???)-Horcoff(5.5)-omark(1.3)

    Whitney(??)-XXX
    Smid(3.25)-Gilbert (5.5)
    XXX-Petry(3.25)
    Potter

    Were does overpaying 5M for 5years fit? Who by cotract and role does he beat out at Even, PP, PK
    Hall NO
    Eberle NO
    RNH NO
    Gagner NO
    Smyth ???? 3M contract NO
    Horcoff Yes/ Maybe but cannot have both contracts on the team.
    Omark NO
    MP ?????????
    Jones NO Top 25 PK’er
    Belanger NO top 25 Pk’er

    We saw what happened to Hemsky when he playded with RNH. Soft or nothing. Not a heavy carrier.

  51. Clay says:

    neojanus,

    There were some amendments made to long-term contract rules in wake of the Kovalchuk fiasco, where year-to-year drop off is limited, but they only pertain to contracts that run into the player’s 36 year-old season and later. So, something like you suggest may be possible, it’s just what Nathan said – that Hemsky would still only make $17.5M over the next four years, when he would probably get more from someone on the open market.

    Kovalchuk story here.

  52. rickithebear says:

    Bookjie: your arguement is the same as the people who want to pass on Hemsky.

    The differencce was penner had comfort playing in Edmonton. Everyones bitch was $. it is important to note that penner’s 30G season was when he got away from hemsky and played with Gagner.

    Penner reduction in scoring in in partner with his move to LA. Hemsky’s rduction relates to his inability to play a full season.

    Bring Penner back and gagner will still be here. 3yrs @2.5M playing wing and PK.. Yes please!

    What does parenteau out of NYI get for a 28Yr old Upper first line competition RW who averaged 19G 64P a season the last two years. Bet it is much less than hemsky.

  53. stevezie says:

    pboy,

    The Garnett story reminds me of some surprisingly blunt self-assessment from Bobby Holik: “If Bobby Holik is your third line center, we will win th Stanley CUp. If Bobby Holik is your first line center, we will not win the Stanley Cup.”

  54. nathan says:

    rickithebear,

    Sure. Top bid > Avg Bid > Bid by a team with a cap structure with expiring entry level #1 picks.

    But seriously your valuation of 3.3M sees patterns in numbers that I doubt one GM would agree with.
    Hope you caught the Beautiful Mind reference above.

  55. Captain Obvious says:

    Holik has started a blog. It’s quite good. Holik is a rare beacon of intelligence from within the hockey world. http://holikonhockey.com/category/bobby-blog/

  56. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Wilson seems to favour advanced stats over perception. I think SJ is a likely destination for a UFA like Penner where ‘appearing to try hard’ has already been debunked to their fan base with Jumbo Joe.

  57. bendelson says:

    Overpay Hemsky and hope his health does a 180 or get what you can for an asset that is diminished by his play/health this season. Certainly a no win situation without blind luck saving the day.

    Cheers to blind luck.

    One more point: I can’t shake the thought that in two or three years – when hockey matters again in this town might that 5M be better applied to whatever weakness the team has at that time?

  58. spoiler says:

    b

    bookje: The coaches that Penner have played for have basically called him fat and lazy (four coaches have done this). The coaches that Hemsky have played for have said he is a hard worker. Those critisizing Hemsky’s work ethic are basing it on ‘body language’, ‘tone in interviews’, and ‘the order in which he leaves the ice following practice’. One of those things is more credible than the other.

    Actually past coaches and reporters who attend to practices have said differently. So I would say they are equally credible to the Sutter comments (et alii)..

    That being said, I believe present coaching was impressed with his off-ice effort while injured (there were some positive comments last summer about his work in the weight room, or maybe it was the summer before, I don’t remember exactly).

    We probably don’t know enough to say if this is an issue for the Oilers or not. My fear, with Tambo rambling on about culture change and the subsequent trading of Penner, is that it is one criterion among all the criteria going into the decision-making process.

    Take it for what you will. It is not, as I have said before, a criticism I have with Hemsky.

    Related to this thought is the scene played in the last Oil Change where all Tambo’s questions about a prospect related to attitude (or call it leadership skills or EQ or whatever) and not ability.

  59. Jordan says:

    bendelson:
    One more point:I can’t shake the thought that in two or three years – when hockey matters again in this town might that 5M be better applied to whatever weakness the team has at that time?

    It took this team two years to get a defensive centre that it was OBVIOUS this team would need after Stoll and Brodziak were traded, and Reasoner was left to wander.

    This is the same team that was at least 1 top 4 D man short, BEFORE whitney was out for half the season, and is quite obviously not the same player he was when he first arrived more than a year ago.

    knowling the Oilers, In 2 years, the Oilers will STILL be looking for Hemsky’s replacement, most certainly because they will trade Omark. That money would be better spend by SIGNING him.

    That’s the team’s M.O. develop something and wait for it’s value to be low, and then TRADE IT for magic beans.

  60. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    DSF,

    Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

    Woodguy’s point is pretty clear. I don’t read him as saying Hemsky = or is > Nash… but saying that when you compare the raw numbers and attributes that differentiate the two players with the rhetoric people use to describe the players (the narratives surrounding each player) perception “isn’t even close” to reality.

    Argue with him on topic or start a new one. Red herrings and straw men don’t fly.

    Thank you reading my post correctly.

    It seems a lot of people read into it stuff I didn’t put in there.

    I don’t think Hemsky and Nash are of equal value.

    I also think that goal scoring ability does get you paid more.

    I also think a history of relative health is better than not.

    I just thought that narrative disparity showed some serious bias by many people.

    I do not believe that disparity is reality though DSF, but Romulus already wrote that post.

    Our crystal balls are foggy so saying Hemsky will play 55 games per year or 80 games per year are both wrong. I would set the line around 70 given that other players who had his shoulder surgery have not re-injured that shoulder (Kessel, Vis and others)

    Also,

    Elliott Freidman has some interesting things in his blog post today.

    Among them was this quote:

    “There’s also no doubting the franchise’s faith in Vaclav Prospal, just signed to an extension for next season. Prospal’s been outspoken about the team’s leadership issues — and Nash must accept some of that.”

    Unlike the Hemsky “body language, first of the ice” issues, this one seems to be coming from the dressing room.

    Friedman also makes a ridiculous proposed trade with the Dys:

    “Nash is the kind of player Vancouver would consider trading Cory Schneider for. Add Cody Hodgson, Chris Tanev, maybe another piece and voila, you’ve got what looks like a pretty fair trade..”

    Wow.

    What do you think DSF, fair trade for the Dys?

    Maybe goal scoring can be overrated too?

    Nash having the 5th largest cap hit in the NHL is an overpay based on his results.

  61. Ducey says:

    I would actually be OK with the Oilers signing Penner to a value contract – mostly because I suspect that they are familiar with whatever issues he brings, but your evaluation of the trade suggests that you might just be Dustin Penner’s mom.

    No. I just got off the phone with her. Dustin Penner’s mom wouldn’t even make that trade to LA again, (although she thanks CO for the kind words about her son and looks forward to the contract offer from CO to her son when he becomes an NHL GM next month).

    I also forwarded this blog to Teubert’s mom. She’s going to kick CO’s ass.

    CO just wants to jump on Oilers management. By saying they are dumb, it makes him smart.

    I expect that even Lombardi would privately admit he would not do the Penner trade again.

  62. bendelson says:

    Jordan,

    So they sign Hemmer to that Traktor contract tomorrow – 6 for 36M. Then in three years when Ebs, Hall and hopefully RNH are leading the team into the playoffs, the Oilers are stuck with And oft-injured Hemmer with a monster contract. Can’t trade him due to injury concerns and there they are – at the cap without the ability to make moves to add going into the playoffs.

    In a sense, like Chicago with Campbell and that contract they got extremely lucky to dump. If he was injury prone – they would have had a big, big problem.

    I know there are more than a few ifs and maybes in this scenario but I hope you see my concern. Right now locking up big money/term for a questionable 2nd line RW seems odd if not foolish.

  63. cabbiesmacker says:

    spoiler:
    Romulus… w.r.t. size and injury, I personally would go with thickness of joints (I don’t and have spent a lot of time on crutches from playing sports).

    I would endorse this theory 100% based on personal knowledge and can state unequivocally that when I employ thicker joints it results in me being far more relaxed and thusly less prone to “major” injury. In fact, if I were to employ the thickest joints possible, I believe my risk of major injury might drop to a zero value unless I were to roll off the couch and bang my head against a heavy piece of furniture.

    I do believe however that the incidence of “minor” injuries, i.e. burning roof of mouth while scarfing down hot pizza, damage to hearing due to headphone overuse, or sawing off toenails with weed-whacker would increase relative to joint thickness. It is also quite possible to conceive that the chances of long term injury are elevated relative to joint thickness as well if one takes diet over a prolonged time period into account.

    Your theory might actually be entirely relevant to some of the Dustin Penner analysis being mulled in this posting.

    I salute you for your outside the box thinking good sir.

  64. LMHF#1 says:

    Bendelson – “like Chicago with Campbell and that contract they got extremely lucky to dump”

    How precisely was that “luck”? I’d call it management.

  65. cabbiesmacker says:

    DBO:
    Guaranteed the Islanders offer him multiple years, since it will mean Tavares gets a guy who has a high skill level. Book it, Hemsky 5 years $5 mill to the isles.

    Thought you should know that Matt Moulson and PA Parenteau are deeply offended by what you’re implying here and have gone to management with salary increase over long term requests.

    Way to go dude. If my keeper pool results are affected in any way you are going to receive a beating like you’ve never had before.

  66. Jordan says:

    bendelson,

    But that’s not the point – the point is that Hemsky is a known commodity that the team has, and he fills a hole on the right side for RW Outscorer.

    By trading him, the Oilers create a hole that they will not fill. You say that there will be holes to fill with that money in 2 years. I say they have had holes to fill for years and don’t, so what does it matter if you have money to fill a hole if you don’t fill it?

    Might as well decide that you’re going to sell your mustang because you might need to make space in the garage for a porsche that you might be able to buy once you retire – my point is that giving up something you have because you might not have room for it later in spite of the value you currently derive from it is foolish.

    I’m not debating the value of the contract. I’m not arguing that hemsky is worth X, for Y years.

    I’m saying that this team has a history of making holes and not filling them.

    And that trading hemsky will ensure that this continues, and that the team continues to be not good enough.

    cabbiesmacker: I would endorse this theory 100% based on personal knowledge and can state unequivocally that when I employ thicker joints it results in me being far more relaxed and thusly less prone to “major” injury. In fact, if I were to employ the thickest joints possible, I believe my risk of major injurymight drop to a zero value unless I were to roll off the couch and bang my head against a heavy piece of furniture.

    I do believe however that the incidence of “minor” injuries, i.e. burning roof of mouth while scarfing down hot pizza, damage to hearing due to headphone overuse, or sawing off toenails with weed-whacker would increase relative to joint thickness. It is also quite possible to conceive that the chances of long term injury are elevated relative to joint thickness as well if one takes diet over a prolonged time period into account.

    Your theory might actually be entirely relevant to some of the Dustin Penner analysis being mulled in this posting.

    I salute you for your outside the box thinking good sir.

    This post is full of win. Thanks for the lols!

  67. cabbiesmacker says:

    WRT Hemsky I think the whole thing could get settled quickly if ST would just offer to front the Piccolino pregame meal tabs over the full term.

  68. bendelson says:

    LMHF#1,

    I am assuming its not easy to trade someone making that kind of money for that length of time in a salary cap world.

  69. LMHF#1 says:

    bendelson:
    LMHF#1,

    I am assuming its not easy to trade someone making that kind of money for that length of time in a salary cap world.

    And that’s precisely why you need strong management who is able to judge the sort of things required to complete a trade like the Campbell deal. I don’t see that becoming the reality with #83 at all, but if that did come to pass, it is a competent GM that would be our solution. Anyone know where we could get one of those?

  70. Denniss says:

    Remember when that guy said Colton Tuebert was a nothing?

    Yeah, that was awesome.

    /Chris Farley’showed.

    I think 24 gets one last season to see what they can bring out of him unless he gets a lot of caps down this year’s stretch and looks terrible. Still, to get back to the point it’s OK now for everyone to admit that Tuebert is junk and that the Penner deal hinges solely on what Klefbomb becomes.

    I think there’s a way to get both 23-83 into the lineup at the same time and I don’t think 23 is gonna be what everyone wants him to be; or at least he’s not gonna be able to do what 83 did and play against real opp. And the only real PP time he’s gonna get as an Oiler will be on video games

  71. bendelson says:

    Jordan,

    Fair enough – they sign Hemmer to fill a roster spot that would otherwise remain vacant due to inept management.

    Same reason they will be stuck with the contract regardless of what happens down the line.

  72. DSF says:

    Woodguy:

    What do you think DSF, fair trade for the Dys?

    Maybe goal scoring can be overrated too?

    Nash having the 5th largest cap hit in the NHL is an overpay based on his results.

    I think Vancouver would be crazy to make that trade but I still think you’re missing the boat on relative value of the two players.

    Let’s try this.

    For sake of argument, let’s assign Hemsky a base value of 100 and assume he’s will sign for $5M.

    Then, what is Rick Nash worth?

    I’ll work from the assumption that a goal = 1.5 times the value of an assist.

    Hemsky – 118 goals – 177 points
    Hemsky – 301 assists- 301 points
    Hemsky total – 479 points

    Nash – 277 goals – 415 points
    Nash – 250 assists – 250 points
    Nash total – 665 points.

    So, we can see Nash is about 1.4 times more valuable as a scorer.

    Based on that alone, Nash should be worth $7 million a year.

    Now we need to factor in durability, size and age.

    Pretty tough to see Nash not being worth his contract based on that.

  73. Gerta Rauss says:

    Lines per Gregor-not sure why they’re starting Khabi unless they are showcasing him.
    And Cam “I’ll spot you 2″ Barker in for an injured Potter.

    Hall – Gagner – Eberle
    Paajarvi – Horcoff – Hemsky
    Smyth – Belanger – Jones
    Eager – Lander – Petrell

    Smid – Petry
    Whitney – Gilbert
    Barker – Sutton

    Khabibulin

  74. Woodguy says:

    cabbiesmacker:
    WRT Hemsky I think the whole thing could get settled quickly if ST would just offer to front the Piccolino pregame meal tabs over the full term.

    But Piccolino’s is so cheap!

    I tell Lino to raise his prices every time I’m in there.

    True story.

  75. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Denniss,

    One area he seemed appreciated by mgmt was on the PP. I thought the PP shot rate was shown to be quite a bit higher with him on it and that was a good sign for future success. So I’d wager he forces his way onto the 2nd unit, on the assumption he doesn’t start there.

  76. Woodguy says:

    DSF: I think Vancouver would be crazy to make that trade but I still think you’re missing the boat on relative value of the two players.

    Let’s try this.

    For sake of argument, let’s assign Hemsky a base value of 100 and assume he’s will sign for $5M.

    Then, what is Rick Nash worth?

    I’ll work from the assumption that a goal = 1.5 times the value of an assist.

    Hemsky – 118 goals – 177 points
    Hemsky – 301 assists- 301 points
    Hemsky total – 479 points

    Nash – 277 goals – 415 points
    Nash – 250 assists – 250 points
    Nash total – 665 points.

    So, we can see Nash is about 1.4 times more valuable as a scorer.

    Based on that alone, Nash should be worth $7 million a year.

    Now we need to factor in durability, size and age.

    Pretty tough to see Nash not being worth his contract based on that.

    Where does 1 goal = 1.5 assists come from?

    Nash is 7.8MM, not 7MM

  77. rickithebear says:

    Obvious:
    Yes of coarse it is rainman like to expect 100% on the dollar on any contrat.

    Forgive me Cause hemsky is .9PPG player and the GREAT HOCKEY FAIRY COVERS THE REST OF THE MAN GAMES FOR HIS CRIPLED ASS misses.
    Just one question were was the GREAT HOCKEY FAIRY when gilbert and Whitney went down. Cause we could have used him and His twin Brothers1st pairing play during that time

    Or does he Exclusively cover for Hemsky’s injuries for free.

    If I am not mistaken he is Cousins with THE GREAT PUMPKIN FAIRY.
    So we best Keep Hemsky and not call Linus. Wouldn’t want to risk the GHF not showing up.

  78. cabbiesmacker says:

    Woodguy: But Piccolino’s is so cheap!

    I tell Lino to raise his prices every time I’m in there.

    True story.

    Smarten up Wood ya ?
    Great food for sure.

  79. Ducey says:

    Why not trade Hemsky for a D or first rounder etc. and then sign PA Parenteau? The guy has 51 pts in 53 games on NYI.

    Same age, same position, good corsi, and he seems durable.

    Can’t say I have ever seen him play, so I don’t know about eye glow but he apparently shows effort occasionally.

  80. Gret99zky says:

    The Rocket Richard Trophy and the 5 all star appearances make it difficult to compare Rick with Ales.

    But the math guys can turn an apple into an orange so ya, sign Hemsky to that 8 year $62.4M contract.

  81. bendelson says:

    So the Leafs have taken 1 or no penalties in 9 of their last 19 games. That’s incredible. I believe you called it a few days back LT. The league wants them I’m the playoffs!

    Not sure about the home/away breakdown of Those 19 games but if it happens tonight I’ll be shocked to see the Oilers win tonight.

  82. Woodguy says:

    cabbiesmacker: Smarten up Wood ya ?
    Great food for sure.

    The red sauce mussels are ridiculous. As is the bread that come with it.

    We just order red sauce mussels with triple bread as an appetizer as standard.

  83. VOR says:

    According to the New York press, lord know if they are accurate, Parteneau wants term (at least 4 years) and is prepared to take less money for that term but is still looking for around $3.75 M. So not much of a saving if you are the lucky bidder. Not to mention that while he plays great without Tavares he gets far more points per minute with him. I can’t say that Horcoff and Pajaarvi are as a good line mates as Tavares and Neilsen. So I am guessing his production would plunge here. the question is how much? Not to mention those of you who were saying Nash is greater than Hemsky because he gets hurt less because he is bigger should consider how small PA is. He hasn’t put in the minutes in the NHL that Hemsky has so how much his body will break down over time is a very good question.

  84. nathan says:

    Gret99zky,

    Don’t think “compare” means what you think it means. The guys who compared them suggested 5 x 5.5 for Hemsky. I think that’s what the winning GM will pay.

    I would not go past 5×5. Rickithebear figures at least one GM is as crazy as that.

    Rickithebear would pay 3.3M/year. I figure all 30 GMs would fight at a barn in Lake Placid to get Hemsky at that price.

    So what do you think the average GM would pay for 5 years of Hemsky?

  85. pboy says:

    Hemmer will get at least 4 years out of someone.

  86. Gret99zky says:

    Toronto got rolled by Calgary last night. Bad.

    There are certain teams I don’t like to see winning in our barn. Toronto tops the list.

    The Oilers had better come out hard, fast, and mean and put these fuckers on their backs early and often.

    go oilers!

  87. spoiler says:

    Great, between Cabbie and Woodguy I have a serious case of the munchies. Pass the damn Cheetos, someone.

  88. Gret99zky says:

    Re: Hemsky

    The beauty of being an UFA is that all reality goes flying out the window. That is why Ales has the advantage. He can go to pretty much any team he wants. He can go to Detroit, NYR, Philly, Van, or another good team for less money or term, or he can cash in on a desperate non-contention team that will pay more than Tambi is offering.

    Can Hemsky really lose?

  89. spoiler says:

    What’s the going rate for first UFA contract 2nd line RWers under future cap limits?
    Or should it be based on him skating uphill against the toughs?

    Petr Sykora, pro-rated?

    Or is the promise of PP ice time and 1st line minutes more important to Hemmer?

  90. Lowetide says:

    The odds of Hemsky returning to form have to be very good unless his shoulders are hamburger. I’d sign him.

  91. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    What would you pay per year over 5?

    Without a number, you’re behind Rickithebear. He’s paying 3.3M/year.

  92. spoiler says:

    He’s been running at .9 per for a few weeks. I’d say he’s back to form. I’ve liked his play. A lot.

  93. Lowetide says:

    nathan:
    Lowetide,

    What would you pay per year over 5?

    Without a number, you’re behind Rickithebear. He’s paying 3.3M/year.

    I’d have to look, but believe I said something like 3 year times 5M. If it requires another year and a little more coin then I’d consider it.

    He’s not yet 30, and the guy is NOT a shrinking violet. He’s very good. For a team that signed a 90-year old Khabibulin to be screwing around with a talent like this is insane.

    Hope the kids aren’t watching.

  94. spoiler says:

    I’d go 5 X $5.5M. If the cap trend continues, that’s better value than his existing contract. Front load it and there’ll be no problem unloading him for value in three years if need be.

  95. El Guapo says:

    Clay,

    Neojanus,

    The scenario of massive front end loaded contracts you suggested cannot occur under this CBA due to the operation of the “100 percent” rule. This rule simply states that in the first two years of a multi-year contract the difference between the lower yearly salary and the higher yearly salary cannot exceeed the amount of the lower salary. If a contract extends longer than two years, the reduction in salary each year after those two intial years cannot be greater than 50% of the salary diffference mentioned before. So the league would reject your salary structure because the difference between the first two years ($10 million – $2.5 million = $7.5) is greater than the lower salary in those first two years. To make it comply with a first year salary of $10 million, the second year could be no less than $5.0 million and the third could be no less than $2.5 million. The annual cap hit in a CBA compliant contract that paid Hemsky $17.5 million would be just over $5.8 million per year, compared to the $4.0 million annual cap hit in the non-compliant contract.

    You can see that while the 100 percent rule was designed to prevent the reduction in average cap hit, it inadvertantly lead to the extremely lengthy contracts like Luongo’s and eventually to the smackdown on Kovalchuk’s.

    And Clay is mistaken, this rule applies to all contracts.

  96. Gret99zky says:

    I would go 5 X $5M. And I know he won’t take it. Not from the Oilers if he can get it somewhere else.

    I would like 1 X $6M. This is a boat on a river with tangerine dreams and marmalade skies.

    I expect he will get 5 X $4-6M/YR in Free Agency. But not with the Oilers.

    Tambi has a minimum $ and term to deal with. 29 other GMs don’t come July 1st.

  97. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide,

    . For a team that signed a 90-year old Khabibulin to be screwing around with a talent like this is insane.

    Exactly.

    How often do top 6 forwards want to sign with your team?

    Methuselah was giggling about the Oilers offering more term and more money than everyone else, and he was a commodity that was very easy to obtain.

    Hemsky is the rarest of the rare: The tough minute outscorer, and they bicker about 2 years.

    Ryan Jones got two years, but giving Hemsky 4 or 5 is anathema.

    No goals in 20 games btw, but you won’t read that in any fishwrap near you.

  98. godot10 says:

    I expect Penner ends up in Toronto or Ottawa, but I wouldn’t mind bringing him back to play with Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle. Add some HEFT to that line. Penner has hands and can give and receive a pass, and can get to the right spots eventually. Hall and Nugent-Hopkins both need the puck too much. Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, and Eberle on the first power play though. If Penner can take draws, he can take Horcoff’s spot on the #1 PP.

    I like Hall with Gagner a lot at even strength.

    Penner’s problems in LA are primarily because that is one slow plodding over-structured team. Penner is a self-made player. He has to do his own thing. And one has to sort of let him to his own thing for him to be effective, which drives coaches who are control freaks insane.

  99. godot10 says:

    Woodguy:
    Lowetide,

    .

    Ryan Jones got two year.

    No goals in 20 games btw, but you won’t read that in any fishwrap near you.

    Belanger has been doing that to everyone this year.

  100. Lowetide says:

    Penner with Gagner and Hemmer would he a hellatrio to see. Would that work?

  101. godot10 says:

    Lowetide,

    Penner, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle
    Hall, Gagner, Paajarvi
    Smyth, Horcoff, Omark
    Eager, Belanger, Jones.

    Omark on the 3rd line on the road. Jones on the 3rd line at home.

  102. gcw_rocks says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    That’s ridiculous. This is sports. Its paid and evaluated differently than normal work. If goals and points per SEASON rather than games played mean nothing to you, I am sure Toronto would give you Tim Connolly. The guy is 0.625PPG over his career. Now, the guy misses a ton of games, but the ppg is there.

    And for those of you willing to blow 5 or 5.5 for 5, let me ask you a question, would you also give him the NMC his agent will undoubtedly ask for?

  103. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Where does 1 goal = 1.5 assists come from?

    Nash is 7.8MM, not 7MM

    1.5 is an oft used number.

    Feel free to use your own modifier but it will certainly be significantly higher than 1.

    Based on production alone, Nash is worth 7 if Hemsky is worth 5.

    Factor in one year younger, far more durable, bigger and much better looking and it’s pretty easy to get to 7.8.

    And I’m guessing Nash isn’t the first one off the ice after practice. :)

  104. Gret99zky says:

    Penner? Seriously? Dustin Penner?

    Wow. I’m sure the math guys will turn a pancake into a hat-trick but my eyeballs remember the lazy, in-the-doghouse, unconditioned, uninterested, just took Lombardi behind the woodshack Penner.

    Can’t wait to see the contract $ and term.

  105. cabbiesmacker says:

    Woodguy: The red sauce mussels are ridiculous.As is the bread that come with it.

    We just order red sauce mussels with triple bread as an appetizer as standard.

    What I love about the place is just letting them roll off-menu. I have a serious thing for clams (yes that kind too), and will just ask them to surprise me as long as it involves linguini and clam sauce. Anything along the lines of Linguini alla Vongole. Red or clear sauce…it doesn’t matter.

    I swear if I lived in New York I’d be scarfing pasta and clams twice a day. Oh ya…me and Joey Gallo dodging bullets and turning over tables to protect the “fam uh leee”

    Ever partaken in any “afterhours” activities at Picc’s? Ethan Moreau flying over a table is actually damned funny in real time.

  106. Gret99zky says:

    And for those of you willing to blow 5 or 5.5 for 5, let me ask you a question, would you also give him the NMC his agent will undoubtedly ask for?

    Of course.

    Can’t trade a player on LTIR.

  107. Roy says:

    Love your blog Mr. Lowetide!!!! and all your articles on ON.

    I do not understand this infatuation with Hemsky leaving first when practice is over. Someone has to be the first one off the ice.

  108. Lowetide says:

    Roy: thanks! I think the Hemsky is loafing thing came from a period where he WAS first off the ice each time because of treatment on his shoulder. That’s my guess, as it seems completey insane for any player to make himself such an obvious target.

    Suspect there was a misunderstanding that led to a series of jokes which led to a story.

  109. Traktor says:

    Scott Gomes before he made it to free agency at age 28:

    Games: 548
    Points: 450
    PPG: 0.82

    Hemsky at 28 years old

    Games: 542
    Points: 419
    PPG: 0.78

    Almost identical except Gomez won some Cups.

  110. DSF says:

    Traktor:
    Scott Gomes before he made it to free agency at age 28:

    Games: 548
    Points: 450
    PPG: 0.82

    Hemsky at 28 years old

    Games: 542
    Points: 419
    PPG: 0.78

    Almost identical except Gomez won some Cups.

    And, in many ways, the same risk involved.

  111. Wolfie says:

    Gomez has never ever been in Hemsky’s class. He had the benefit of some pretty good linemates in New Jersey until he signed his ridiculous contract with the Rangers.

  112. Woodguy says:

    Woodguy,

    DSF: 1.5 is an oft used number.

    Feel free to use your own modifier but it will certainly be significantly higher than 1.

    Based on production alone, Nash is worth 7 if Hemsky is worth 5.

    Factor in one year younger, far more durable, bigger and much better looking and it’s pretty easy to get to 7.8.

    And I’m guessing Nash isn’t the first one off the ice after practice.

    Who uses it often?

    I’m not familiar with it and would like to see the reasoning behind it.

    Nash’s teamates bitch about leadership.
    :)

  113. Gret99zky says:

    Gotta beat Toronto.

  114. pboy says:

    That was quick.

  115. Wolfie says:

    Even the Toronto announcers mentioned the pick that Bozak put on Smid.

  116. Woodguy says:

    DSF: And, in many ways, the same risk involved.

    Gomez eh?

    You two are trying hard to become parodies of yourselves.

    So Zoolander was a cap throw in in the Gardenier trade eh?

  117. cabbiesmacker says:

    F I hate Sloppy Poophole. Unibrowed dork.

  118. rich says:

    Are we showcasing Khabibulin or we trying to make sure he’s here next year?

  119. pboy says:

    Barker was completely stunned there. Gawk he’s awful.

  120. Woodguy says:

    How the fuck do you get a break away like that?

    Goats on first two goals?

    Jones and Barker.

    Ben Eager’s goals/min is awesome.

    He beat Heatley in pts/60 when they both played in SJS

  121. Traktor says:

    That goal in on MPS. Pathetic attempt to get the puck deep and Sutton and Barker left out to dry after the D changed.

  122. Traktor says:

    Eager 7 goals
    Hemsky 4 goals

    He might lap him.

  123. pboy says:

    Traktor:
    That goal in on MPS. Pathetic attempt to get the puck deep and Sutton and Barker left out to dry after the D changed.

    It wasn’t a great play by MPS but Barker showed zero effort coasting off the bench.

  124. Wolfie says:

    I would say that second goal is on the coaching staff. There’s no way you should have Barker and Sutton paired together. Those two couldn’t catch a receding hairline.

  125. Lowetide says:

    You know, both teams are really pretty bad.

  126. rich says:

    Traktor: Would your point be that Eager should get $7mil a year since Hemsky is getting $4mil?

  127. Traktor says:

    rich:
    Traktor: Would your point be that Eager should get $7mil a year since Hemsky is getting $4mil?

    No. Eager is making 1M so Hemsky should get 600k.

  128. pboy says:

    Atta boy Eager!

  129. Gret99zky says:

    Hemsky asking for Eager money???

  130. Kert says:

    Show the tape of Jones driving the net to MPS.
    Nothing came of it, but it’s still the right move.

  131. rby says:

    I believe what DSF is really trying to say is that despite being identical twins, H. Sedin is a far inferior player to D. Sedin.

    Also, one could make the inference that since both players have vastly fewer goals than many of their star counterparts, they are in fact not very good.

  132. Kert says:

    Wow, looks like they did. Dangerous little charge to the front by MPS.

  133. Lowetide says:

    Taylor Hall. Jesus what a hit.

  134. pboy says:

    Obviously, there’s a mandate from the league that doesnt allow the Leafs to take penalties anymore. Two blatant ones with no calls. This could be a long night.

  135. Rebilled says:

    Does Eberle get no calls? Jesus what a joke.

  136. pboy says:

    Fuck you stripes.

  137. wordbird says:

    Sure looks like a light has turned on in Paajarvi’s head…

  138. Traktor says:

    That non-call on the Hall/Eberle play was unbelievable.

  139. crude says:

    Bad reffin’.

  140. Gret99zky says:

    Toronto is guaranteed a playoff spot. It’s just a matter of where’s the best seed now.

  141. Lowetide says:

    The Leafs have been getting calls since about Christmas. I don’t know what’s going on, but it’s going on.

  142. pboy says:

    Lowetide:
    The Leafs have been getting calls since about Christmas. I don’t know what’s going on, but it’s going on.

    Christmas of what year, LT?

  143. Gret99zky says:

    I hope Brown takes a career ending elbow to the face.

    In the most Catholic, forgivable way possible. Head hunting prick.

  144. Traktor says:

    Whitney’s gap control around the 1:30 mark was terrible. He was 20 feet from the puck and the Leaf player was 50 feet and Whitney just let him have it. He must have zero push in his ankle.

  145. Rebilled says:

    I hope the derrick falls on Brown.

  146. Gret99zky says:

    Lowetide:
    The Leafs have been getting calls since about Christmas. I don’t know what’s going on, but it’s going on.

    Since Boston’s win last year TO is on the clock for most years wanting.

    Hockey’s Mecca is praying and Bettman is rolling back the stone and fulfilling scripture.

    “He (Bettman) appeared to many people over a span of forty games before his ascension to The Playoffs”

  147. DSF says:

    rby:
    I believe what DSF is really trying to say is that despite being identical twins, H. Sedin is a far inferior player to D. Sedin.

    Also, one could make the inference that since both players have vastly fewer goals than many of their star counterparts, they are in fact not very good.

    The next time Hemsky wins the Art Ross, we should talk.

  148. nathan says:

    “I’d have to look, but believe I said something like 3 year times 5M. If it requires another year and a little more coin then I’d consider it”

    Lowetide,

    Well. Now you have the answer to your question about why Hemsky’s likely to leave. Hemsky expects TWO more years and more coin. He probably gets 5 x 5.5M this summer.

  149. Gret99zky says:

    Eager must be feeling better with all the fighting he has been doing lately.

    Perhaps the player ST signed has arrived. What is it February?

    Somebody send Belanger a calander.

  150. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Gomez eh?

    You two are trying hard to become parodies of yourselves.

    So Zoolander was a cap throw in in the Gardenier trade eh?

    Zoolander and Gardiner…two former first round picks… for an old guy.

    And, lest we forget, Colborne, a first round pick, a second round pick for Kaberle.

    Burke is clearly an idiot.

  151. pboy says:

    Spector has a face for radio but unfortunately, he’s a terrible radio host.

  152. Traktor says:

    Edmonton is either playing with ice guards on their skates or Toronto is taking penalties without repercussion.

  153. rby says:

    DSF,

    I’m sure there’s an oft used number for how many fractions of a Cup that’s worth.

    The Leaves are just plain terrible here.

  154. pboy says:

    Great pass by 89.

  155. Traktor says:

    Hall with 20. Nice pass from Gags.

  156. pboy says:

    Lupol with an obvious pick directly in front of the ref……..but no whistle.

  157. TartanArmy says:

    Hemsky….shoulda been…..sigh.

  158. Ducey says:

    Hemsky reminds Woodguy why he sucks. Misses the net on the break away, then gets concussed. :-)

  159. Henry says:

    Komisarek boarding. Wtf

  160. pboy says:

    Barker is fucking horrible. He needs to stay in the locker room for the 3rd period.

  161. Rebilled says:

    Yes! An Icing call!!

  162. Kert says:

    pboy:
    Barker is fucking horrible. He needs to stay in the locker room for the 3rd period.

    Seconded.

  163. rich says:

    Barker looks afraid to handle the puck.

  164. Gerta Rauss says:

    Kert: Seconded.

    I’ll 3rd that.I wasn’t as critical of Barker as others earlier this season but he’s been just awful lately.

  165. Ducey says:

    Leaves fans actually think their team might do some thing this year? Maybe they are tired after playing the Flamers yesterday but they don’t look good tonight.

  166. McSorely Head says:

    I’m not minding the fact that the refs aren’t calling every little thing, but that MPS penalty? What did he do to the ref to get called for that?

  167. DSF says:

    rby:
    DSF,

    I’m sure there’s an oft used number for how many fractions of a Cup that’s worth.

    The Leaves are just plain terrible here.

    I’m sure there is…a coefficient of zero.

    Hemsky shares that with the Sedins.

    Until that changes, we’ll have to work with what we have.

  168. pboy says:

    Holy shit. What’s a penalty tonight?

  169. Lucinius says:

    I can only shake my head at the reffing.

  170. Henry says:

    Petry is wonderful skater.

  171. crude says:

    baaaaad reffin’.

  172. Lucinius says:

    All that and Jones goes to the box? Seriously?

    That’s the first thing this period they decide to call?

    I miss the old days when they at least tried to make it look even, or so my rose tinted glasses skew history.

    NHL definitely has the worst refs of the major pro sports, and its hitting most teams.

  173. Gret99zky says:

    Everyone hates on Spector and probably Damien tonight but at least there is some level of controversy or discussion.

    The Oilers gang of talking heads are boring and for the most part not worth mentioning. See Bob Stauffer. Damn I miss his Total Sports Days :(

    I will tune into Spector any day against the CHED crew. I don’t always like what he says but I’m okay with the odd off-hand comment on the city, the owner, the management, the weather, the fact that it’s not a desirable destination for players, the drinking (tee-hee).

    His eyes do this shifty backandforththing before he speaks during the telecast so I’m not sure whatsthatallabout.

    Anyway point any media critisism at the CBC cuz you are picking up the tab on that buffet.

  174. Bar_Qu says:

    Boooolin

  175. Lucinius says:

    Barker with the turn over that leads to Sutton taking a decent penalty. Go figure.

  176. LMHF#1 says:

    Wow…this is absolute bullshit.

  177. TartanArmy says:

    Refs 3, EDM 2…..i mean Tor 3.

  178. sliderule says:

    Are we showcasing Barker for old timer team?

  179. pboy says:

    What a shot.

  180. TartanArmy says:

    Amazing pressure and what a shot by Eberle. Mr. Sniper.

  181. wordbird says:

    Jaw dropping.

  182. Wolfie says:

    Holy Laser!

  183. McSorely Head says:

    clutch!

  184. Lucinius says:

    I’ve only seen the second half of this game, admittedly, but the pressure from the Oilers has been great. Hemsky has been.. Hemsky. Eberle remains clutch.

    But the Oilers were playing like they were frustrated with the game and determined to even it up.

  185. Gret99zky says:

    Hemsky takes 3 chances. Eberle takes one.

    Eberle is worth $15M per year.

    Fuck you Leafs!

  186. crude says:

    That was the most satisfying goal to see… That kid has the one of the best shots I’ve ever seen. Wow.

  187. LMHF#1 says:

    Just start calling it Eberle time. I did about 30 seconds before the goal.

  188. Woodguy says:

    Jordan Eberle’s career shooting percentage may be higher than the averages NHL’ers, even after 1000 games.

    Lordy.j

  189. striatic says:

    the funny thing is, the moment he got clear in the slot, and saw 14 on the player’s back, i knew the puck was going into the net.

    funny, because i could not say the same for any other Oilers player for the past .. 20 years?

    Eberle is all-world. maybe one of the 10 best hockey players in the world right now. what a treat.

  190. Gret99zky says:

    Is the Bettman point on for both teams??

  191. Ducey says:

    The Leaves got a penalty!!!!!!!!!??????????

  192. pboy says:

    That probably will get the ref fined for making that call.

    I’d love for one of the MSM to ask Renney why Barker was on the PP at the end of the game instead of Petry. Jesus Christ.

  193. Lucinius says:

    I will say I haven’t been thrilled with Hall’s decision making near the offensive blue line.

  194. McSorely Head says:

    “and Barker loses control of the puck”

  195. Gret99zky says:

    Thank you sir may I have another!

  196. Gerta Rauss says:

    That’s too bad-I thought we deserved better tonight.

  197. Lucinius says:

    Ugh. Bad call by Paajarvi to go back to Whitney. Horrible coverage by Gilbert on the odd man rush the other way.

    Oh well. Was hoping to see us steal a win here as the Oilers were the better team, by and large, from what I watched.

  198. Lowetide says:

    Crappy way to lose that game. These kids are the bomb, though. The bomb.

  199. LMHF#1 says:

    Ya know Magnus, i was starting to really like you. Now, i hate you. One of the stupidest plays you could ever make. Against the Leafs no less. Horrible. With Hemsky on your wing having an excellent game. Horrible. What the hell were you thinking?

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