G58 Canucks at Oilers

The last time Edmonton was competing for anything important, they had a tremendous number of “value” contracts. In 2005-06, the club marched out of the lockout with several useful players from the system making less than full value from their contracts. I think it’s a key element for the Oilers moving forward, since the 3 horsemen are going to get paid in full and the Horcoff still has a few glorious seasons to run.

The value contracts in 2005-06 were mostly former Oiler draft picks:  Ales Hemsky, Shawn Horcoff, Fernando Pisani, Jarret Stoll, plus MA Bergeron and Raffi Torres. That’s 6 players making under 1 million dollars, and they delivered thusly:

  • Ales Hemsky 81, 19-58-77 (led team in scoring) ($901,740)
  • Shawn Horcoff 79, 22-51-73 ($1,000,000)
  • Jarret Stoll 82, 22-46-68 ($501,600)
  • Raffi Torres 82, 27-14-41 ($875,000)
  • Fernando Pisani 80, 18-19-37 ($611,800)
  • MA Bergeron 75, 15-20-35 ($931,000)

Those are 2006 prices, so we can’t used the $1M or below line as a direct comparable. The 05-06 cap was $39 million if I recall and now it’s $64 million. So, let’s ask this question: how many value contracts do the Oilers have in 11-12, with value’s line in the sand being 1.6M?

  • Jordan Eberle 53, 25-30-55 ($1,158,333)
  • Ryan Jones 57, 13-11-24 ($1,500,000)
  • Jeff Petry 50, 2-14-16 ($1,000,000)

The Oilers have a plethora of candidates playing for 1.6M or below, but the production of Magnus Paajarvi, Ben Eager, Anton Lander, Lennart Petrell, Darcy Hordichuk, Theo Peckham, Corey Potter and Devan Dubnyk isn’t well beyond the value paid.

The Oilers have a tremendous number of depth players who are not only underperforming their contracts, it is a mystery they are on the team. I’ll name Anton Lander and Lennart Petrell, but you could also include Theo Peckham, Corey Potter after the injury and Devan Dubnyk has also been disappointing. We’ve discussed Eager and Hordichuk before, the main problem I have with these players is having them on the roster at all, but I don’t know that we can say Darcy Hordichuk has failed to deliver on what we might have expected from him.

Next season’s value contracts could come from names like Eberle, Jones, Teemu Hartikainen, Paajarvi and perhaps someone like Tyler Bunz who could surprise. The Oilers have a tremendous “soft spot” on the roster–a list several names strong–where a team interested in improving could place smart contracts and flourish. Those roster spots are currently occupied by Ben Eager, Darcy Hordichuk, Lennart Petrell, Anton Lander, Theo Peckham, Corey Potter and perhaps Devan Dubnyk.

This doesn’t include things like the Whitney injury worry or the Horcoff erosion, these are things that could be done anytime. Now, for instance.

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179 Responses to "G58 Canucks at Oilers"

  1. FPB94 says:

    P-A Parenteau has 53 points in 58 games and going UFA this year.

    But he never gets talked about. So i figure he’s going to be one of those guys who has a short and low contract for no reason than his name or reputation.

    Must jump on those guys. Like Fleishmann and co.

  2. DSF says:

    Who is this Darcy Hordichuk of whom you speak?

    23 GP…last game January 24th.

    0G 1A 1P -4.

  3. Lowetide says:

    That’s his role, DSF. He’s no Harold Snepsts. :-)

  4. DSF says:

    Seems his role may be a just a tad superfluous.

    Most team will dress an extra defenseman and call up their Hordichuck from the AHL as required.

    Of course, that presupposes you have an extra defenseman.

  5. Lowetide says:

    DSF: Yeah, makes complete sense. Renney ran like that in NYC too, which makes me think there’s always going to be a bruiser in the pressbox.

  6. FPB94 says:

    I’d much rather dress a guy who can play and sometimes fight (like Ryan White, or even Carcillo) then a tool like those guys.

  7. Lowetide says:

    Agreed. Oilers should bring in two Pisani’s over the summer and play them behind Hall-Eberle and Smyth-Hemsky.

  8. DonDon says:

    Lowtide. I believe you have stated the situation very accurately. This is a team that is not being built for future success. You missed Barker. It seems difficult for many posters to accept the fact Horcoff’s performance has really dropped off. When Nugent-Hopkins returns, the Oil have four scoring forwards, basically one line with two centres. When Renney puts NH on a line with Horcoff and Hemsky, it is the waste of his talent. Replacing Horcoff or Hemsky with Smyth doesn’t seem to be the answer.

  9. stevezie says:

    Man I loved Stoll. I still maintain that the beginning of Edmonton’s fall was Stoll’s concussion in 07. He was MVP to that point. Of course, you could make a pretty good argument for Pronger’s trade demand.

    Re: Bruiser in the Pressbox
    Who does he bruise? Who?

  10. DSF says:

    stevezie:
    Man I loved Stoll. I still maintain that the beginning of Edmonton’s fall was Stoll’s concussion in 07. He was MVP to that point. Of course, you could make a pretty good argument for Pronger’s trade demand.

    Re: Bruiser in the Pressbox
    Who does he bruise? Who?

    I think LT meant Poseur in the Pressbox.

  11. Racki says:

    Hordichuk seems pretty redundant anyways when we have Eager, who can fight fairly well (at least when it makes sense to) as well as play hockey fairly well.

    Is it wrong he has more goals than Hemsky (with same games played)? Damn what a horrible season for Hemmer. Anyways, that’s a whole other topic.

    Right now Eager’s contract isn’t what I’d consider a value contract either, but it may go the way of Ryan Jones and start to look a whole lot better.

  12. DBO says:

    I don’t mind Eager since the New Year. I think his concussion was lingering and his play suffered. Yes he is under water by the metrics, but put him with Belanger and Jones and that is a solid 4th line. Key there being 4th line (not 3rd line). 2 PKers. 1 energy guy who can score a bit and they know their role.

    LT your comment about 2 Pisani’s begs a question. Do we parley one or two of our offensive youngsters not named hall, eberle and RNH, into some real NHLers? We will be adding a 4th young offensive gun at the draft (gonna be hard to draft a D knowing we have to wait 3 years). So with that piece we will conceivably have 5 of our top 6 forwards. Now if we kept Hemsky we are set for a while, then all you need is one Pisani with Smyth and Horcoff, and then you can address the real need which is our need of a top end D.

    I guess I wonder when we get to the point where we will actually do the 3 for 1 deal. We are stockpiling assets, and if we wait for them all to be ready we will wait 3 more years. What’s scary is that at the Season ticket holders meeting yesterday Tambellini said, when asked about D, that we have a bunch of great ones coming in 2 or 3 years so we just have to bridge that gap. What frightens me is he seems to think Sutton and Barker are the ones to fill that gap.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Racki: Yeah, in fairness Eager has been playing better lately. I see his role as 4th line, 6 minutes a night, don’t take stupid penalties, score once a month. He didn’t do that for much of the season, maybe the concussion hurt him.

  14. Lowetide says:

    DBO: The concern I have is that MP might end up being a Pisani type, so flushing him too soon might mean they’re trading what they are looking for.

  15. DBO says:

    LT: agreed, I just hope management accepts that and that MPS embraces the role. I mentioned yesterday that I almost hope for the forsberg kid in the draft, if only to have a Landeskog kind of physical presence with skill in our top 6. Hall is developing a nice nasty streak, so he will add some physicality. But Eberle and RNH will never dominate physically, and if Gagner is our #2, while he tries and plays gritty, he’ll never dominate physically. I really think this is a big reason why Hemsky is being dealt. You can justify paying him 4-5 years @ $5 mill (which is what NEal in Pit just signed for) based on skill, but his injury history and lack of size turns the org off. he plays tough, he isn’t scared, but like in the past the Org will not see beyond the mythical “power forward”. Personally, I would be very happy with this lineup next year (yes we rush our top pick but oh well)

    Hall-Gagner-Eberle
    Forsberg-RNH-Hemsky
    Smyth-Horocoff-MPS
    Eager-Belanger-Jones

    The real question outside of the D and goalie issues (man we are not close. dammit) is can you look at that lineup and think “enough for the playoffs”? 2 solid checking lines, a good amount of PKers (expecially if renney lets MPS play there which I hope he does) and 2 real scoring lines (and having Hemsky with RNH means one of those lines will destroy weaker opposition). You can flip around any of the top 6, but I think that is one hell of a foundation for a 3 year run (when we can’t afford all of them and have to move one or bury Horcoff in the minors)

  16. spoiler says:

    Lowetide:
    DBO: The concern I have is that MP might end up being a Pisani type, so flushing him too soon might mean they’re trading what they are looking for.

    I think that might be our best hope for him. One thing about Pisani though… he had hands.

  17. DBO says:

    Off topic CBA post: if the league goes the way of the NBA, where you can buy out a player and not have it count against your cap (lets say at 2/3 like it currently is), I hope the Oil get creative ala Jersey (who always seem to find a way around things, except the last fiasco which cost them a 1st rd pick). If you can buy out a player at 2/3 and lose the cap hit, i would hope they approach Horcoff and tell him they are going to buy him out, lose the cap hit then resign him for the money he lost for the same term. Means he’s happy cause he gets paid his full salary, and we are happy cause his cap hit becomes like $2 million. I personally think this is the best case scenario, since Horcoff is a solid 3rd line centre, and the only real issue is his disproportionate cap hit vs talent. We clear $3.5 mill off his cap hit, a lot of our cap issues go bye bye, and we are a better team for it (although a few posters will still bitch that he is overpaid at $2 mill cap hit, but oh well, you can’t fight stupid).

  18. spoiler says:

    I really don’t get that 2-3 year comment by Tambo.

    So we will be a playoff team but not a Cup contender till the defensemen we’ve just drafted are learning the ropes in the Bigs?

    Am I misconstruing? because that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

    Or does he really expect that 3-4 of the dmen we’ve drafted over the past two years will be kicking out the jams at ages 21 and 22?

    Has anyone ever been a Cup contender with 3-4Dmen of that age and experience?

  19. stevezie says:

    DBO,

    I’ve been rolling that same scheme around in my mind for a week. Can you do that? Is there anything to stop a rich owner from signing, say Parenteau, to an overpaying contract, immediately buying him out and then resigning him to a cheap contract (so it balances out for the player and the team saves on cap hit)?
    After the Kovalxhuk fiasco I’d be cautious, but it’s definitely worth looking into.

  20. FastOil says:

    @DBO
    I like Forsberg as well, your line up looks good. I have had enough of Jones though. Other than his little run on the backs of Smyth/Horcoff at their best he just isn’t a good NHL player in his role. Gets some goals and bleeds and bleeds. I would prefer less goals with a more solid and effective game.

    @spoiler
    Pisani did have finish but I think Pajaarvi has as good a shot at .5 PPG just with different tools.

  21. Racki says:

    Lowetide:
    Racki: Yeah, in fairness Eager has been playing better lately. I see his role as 4th line, 6 minutes a night, don’t take stupid penalties, score once a month. He didn’t do that for much of the season, maybe the concussion hurt him.

    I think that was the case (that he was still suffering or at least concerned about the concussion). That is probably especially the case with his willingness to fight, and I can’t say I blame him. I think he’ll make a solid 3rd or 4th liner for this team though. I’d say that as it stands we’ve got 3 guys worth keeping in the bottom six (at least for a bottom six role): Eager, Jones, and Belanger, although Smyth and Horcoff may find themselves in there one day permanently (and I don’t mean that in a negative way).

  22. Lowetide says:

    spOILer: What quote? I didn’t see it.

  23. steveb12344 says:

    I don’t know why Eager doesn’t get a little more love around here.

    The dude is big, tough, can skate like the wind, has an underrated shot, and scores more goals, with less icetime than anyone on the team.

    That description sounds an awful lot like the kind of power forward we are looking for.

    P.S : I’m not neccesarily saying he’s the answer, but just sayin…

  24. DSF says:

    Lowetide: I guess I wonder when we get to the point where we will actually do the 3 for 1 deal. We are stockpiling assets, and if we wait for them all to be ready we will wait 3 more years. What’s scary is that at the Season ticket holders meeting yesterday Tambellini said, when asked about D, that we have a bunch of great ones coming in 2 or 3 years so we just have to bridge that gap. What frightens me is he seems to think Sutton and Barker are the ones to fill that gap.

    “I guess I wonder when we get to the point where we will actually do the 3 for 1 deal. We are stockpiling assets, and if we wait for them all to be ready we will wait 3 more years. What’s scary is that at the Season ticket holders meeting yesterday Tambellini said, when asked about D, that we have a bunch of great ones coming in 2 or 3 years so we just have to bridge that gap. What frightens me is he seems to think Sutton and Barker are the ones to fill that gap.”

    - DBO

  25. Thinker says:

    Do you think we could get penner back on a value deal. He stinks in LA. Maybe hemsky would be cheap too with no league interest, but thats probably just wishful thinking.

  26. spoiler says:

    LT

    Going on reports by Schitzo (last thread) and DBO (this one) with regards to Tambo’s comments at the season ticket luncheon yesterday.

  27. Lowetide says:

    Ack! Ack! Ack! It’s like Mars Attacks!

    Well, there’s nothing I can say to that. Steve Tambellini will lose his job. The die is cast.

  28. Wolfie says:

    Lowetide:

    I kind of surprised myself in the last thread. I thought R.A. Dickey threw knuckleballs. Checked out Wikipedia and it turns out he is the last knuckleballer in MLB.

  29. Lowetide says:

    Wolfie: Interesting. I thought Charlie Hough would never retire, there must be some kid out there whose arm fell off last summer working on it.

  30. Woodguy says:

    Top 6 (+ties) Edmonton Oilers Forwards Goals/60 (NHL rank among forwards)

    Eberle 1.51 (6th)
    Eager 1.21 (tied 22nd)
    RNH 1.12 (tied 35th)
    Smyth 0.90 (tied 97th)
    Hall 0.83 (tied 120th)
    Gagner 0.72 (tied 169th)
    Jones 0.72 (tied 169th)

    Eager’s G/60 for his last 4 seasons:

    11/12 1.21
    10/11 0.58
    09/10 0.85
    09/10 1.05

    Its obvious that Eager is at the right end of the bell curve right now, but it looks like he can actually score at a reasonable rate over time.

    I think he covers his bet at 1.1MM.

    His Relative Corsi last 4 years:

    11/12 -8.3
    10/11 -12.6
    09/10 -3.0
    08/09 -5.4

    Last year wasn’t good, but otherwise has a history of not being horrible. Not good, but not horrible.

    Compare him to the other Oiler 4th liners:

    Lander -10.7
    Hordichuck -12.5
    Petrell -18.4

    I think he comes close to covering his bet at 1.1MM

  31. knighttown says:

    See, there’s two different ways you can plan your 4th line.

    1. Find guys that can not hurt you at evens for 3-6 minutes a night and can also fill a role such as enforcer or penalty kill. That would be Darcy Hordichuck, Anton Lander and Lennart Petrell.

    2. Alternatively, you find guys who can’t do any of that other stuff but that are good enough hockey players they can play up a line or two during times of injury, slump or demotivation. I’d say Ben, Eager, Ryan Jones and Eric Belanger are (marginal) examples of this.

    The Oilers absolutely love every player to have a role and push their bottom of the roster guys into these places whether they are better than core guys filling them or not. Corey Potter playing first PP. Theo Peckham plays big PK minutes. Petrell, Lander, Belanger, Jones kill penalties.

    New Jersey and Tampa historically are the opposite. Kovalchuck and St. Louis play 25 minutes a night. Keith, Suter and Webber play 28. Remember when we had CFP? He was first off the bench every period, every PP and every PK.

    Novel idea but why not play your best players…more often?

  32. mc79hockey says:

    @spoiler-

    Saw your comments a few threads back suggesting Gill and Mitchell as comparables for Sutton.

    Gill’s an interesting one. Barring a big up-tick in TOI he’ll be on the list next year. Last year though, he was a shade under 20 minutes a game and impOrtant to the PK. We’ll see what happens when he needs a new deal. I’m sure his agent appreciates Tambo’s work.

    Mitchell…man, I can’t see him as even close to a comp for Sutton. Last signed when he was five years younger than Sutton is now and playing 21+ minutes a night. Still does. I’m not sure how they’re remotely comparable

  33. Woodguy says:

    spoiler:
    I really don’t get that 2-3 year comment by Tambo.

    So we will be a playoff team but not a Cup contender till the defensemen we’ve just drafted are learning the ropes in the Bigs?

    Am I misconstruing? because that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

    Or does he really expect that 3-4 of the dmen we’ve drafted over the past two years will be kicking out the jams at ages 21 and 22?

    Has anyone ever been a Cup contender with 3-4Dmen of that age and experience?

    Jon WIllis had a series of tweets in this regards:

    Average NHL experience of top-4 playoff D in Stanley Cup Finals last season: 8 seasons.

    Avg. NHL experience of top-4 D in 2009-10 Stanley Cup Finals: 7.4 seasons.

    Since 2007-08, exactly on top-2 D in SCF has had less than five years of experience. And he would have if not for NHL lockout.

    Average experience of top-4 D in Stanley Cup Finals since 2007-08: 8.3 years.

    Average experience of a number one defenseman on a Stanley Cup finalist team, since 2006-07: 12 seasons.

    Median experience of a number one defenseman on a Stanley Cup finalist, since 2006-07: 12.5 seasons.

    Avg. expereince of top-4 defenseman in SCF since 2006-07: 8.75 seasons. That’s 40 guys.

    So the way I see it the Oilers will wait around until their drafted D is ready.

    By that time they will need to tank in order to get top line scoring because Hall, Eberle and RNH will be in their early 30′s.

    Rinse, repeat.

    The management team has no clue about balance.

    Lowe has a long history of unbalanced teams, and v3.2 is building his history too.

  34. spoiler says:

    MC,

    Neither are their contracts the same… But at the time they signed, they were considered overpays. Management pays for size (rightly or wrongly), was my point. O’Donnell was the closest on your list, makes less than Sutton, not quite the size or skating or offense (however little) and a tich older. Like I said, Sutton might be a $300k overpay, but in the big world that’s largely meaningless.

    To me Tambo’s comments on the D above are a much bigger issue.

  35. Woodguy says:

    knighttown,

    There’s a 3rd way.

    You can salt in your good young players who aren’t ready for a top 6 role, but you want them to get NHL experience and be handy to play up and down the line when other players aren’t “going” and the young guy is.

    Vancouver is easing Hodgeson into the NHL this way.

    Boston eased Seguin in this way last year.

    The thinking that “Top 6 forwards need to be top 6 forwards in the AHL or NHL” and shouldn’t play on lesser lines in the NHL and learn there is flawed.

    There are many, many examples of very good players learning the ropes on the 4th line after doing very well in the AHL, and moving up from there.

    It takes good coaching, so it won’t work in Edmonton.

  36. knighttown says:

    WG:

    That Willis post is disgustingly good.

    Continuing on from my pervious discussion on how to build 4th lines, I’d convert to the “good hockey player” model ASAP. This leaves you no choice but to find PK options after 10, 20 and 94 but again, if Kovalchuck can do it so can 83 or 14 or 89.

    Starting 4th line up then I’d use:

    91-93-23/55 and fill in the gaps above or like LT says, mow the guys that aren’t true top 9ers.

    1st 4-89-14
    2nd xx-xx-83
    3rd xx-10-xx

    You’re not going to like that cause it means 20 (or 10) are gone cause they can’t play 2nd line. Jones is gone cause he can’t play 3rd. Lander is in the AHL. Petrell is probably flipping burgers

    Sorry gents, we’ve got our four 4th liners; Paajarvi, Omark, Eager and Nugent-Hopkins. Unless you can prove you can handle any matchup a top 9 guy is going to face and still produce you need to be upgraded.

  37. spoiler says:

    knighttown:
    WG:

    That Willis post is disgustingly good.

    I second that notion.

  38. russ99 says:

    At this point in the rebuild, there’s no need for adding “Coke machines” on the 3rd line like Pisani in the offseason. I’d rather see a two-way second line and a skill 3rd line of offensive prospects.

    Since the kid line will have a year together and the need for getting soft minutes reduced, the coach should also pick spots as to when the offensive 3rd line and strictly defensive 4th line should be on the ice.

  39. VOR says:

    I think Jonathon’s analysis is interesting but can’t agree it is useful in player decisions which seems to be the contention, that it refutes ST. I think history says, in terms of necessary experience ST could be right.

    It doesn’t happen often but teams do occasionally win a cup with young D. It helps if you have a goalie who is all world. For example Montreal Canadiens, 1992-1993.

    Eric Dejardins (23), Mathieu Schneider (23), JJ Daigneault (27), Patrice Brisebois (22), Kevin Haller (22), Sean Hill (22), Lyle Odelien (24), Donald Dufresne (25), Rob Ramage (34). Average years of experience with Rob Ramage’s 14 years – 4.67 years. Of the 6 D-men who played the majority of the Stanley Cup time: 4.0 years. Top two 3.5 years. #1D – 5 years.

    In two years, when everybody seems to think we lose the window to ever win anything our top 4 D (the way things are going) will have 9 years (Whitney), 8 years (Gilbert), 8 years (Smid) and 4 years (Petry) for 7.5 years of experience at the end of 2013-2014 when everybody keeps saying our window closes. I think that is plenty of experience. Chicago (2009-2010) won a Stanely Cup with Keith 26 (5 years), Seabrook 24 (5 years), Hjalmarrson 22 (3 years) and Campbell (10 years) and they didn’t even have great goaltending.

    I think we should focus on talent not age or experience. We don’t have enough talent or depth on D.

  40. Lowetide says:

    Pisani was no Coke machine. That dog could hunt.

  41. spoiler says:

    Good counterpoint, Vor. Also, if the rumours of Tambo seeking a defenseman are true, he doesn’t necessarily believe what he stated to the public.

  42. LMHF#1 says:

    There has been almost zero discussion of bringing Stoll back. It made sense to some degree that he was moved (personal issues and what we got back), but that was predicated on replacing him which they didn’t do. He’d still be worth grabbing as we don’t have anyone like him.

    Magnus is already a tremendous backchecker who almost always prevents odd-man rushes when on the ice, but he needs a lot of coaching and thinking time re: his offensive game. He has a lot of assets but doesn’t know how to use them. Too much skating with the puck and not enough without it. Too many perimeter shots and almost none from the slot. Just a couple examples, but I don’t know if we have the coaches to get him doing these things.

  43. spoiler says:

    And the Hawks finally put some excitement into this game.

  44. LMHF#1 says:

    Lowetide:
    Pisani was no Coke machine. That dog could hunt.

    I’d be working like crazy on Cornet’s skating fundamentals. He’s got Pisani’s two strong points (shooter and phenomenal positionally) but needs to balance his game. He’s very young and could make it.

  45. spoiler says:

    Pisani was an Espresso machine.

  46. mc79hockey says:

    spoiler,

    People were bitching about $2.25mm and $3.5mm short term deals for guys coming off seasons in which they were top four on respectable teams? I think the disconnect here might lie in people not knowing what UFA top four D make.

  47. DBO says:

    mc79hockey:
    spoiler,

    People were bitching about $2.25mm and $3.5mm short term deals for guys coming off seasons in which they were top four on respectable teams?I think the disconnect here might lie in people not knowing what UFA top four D make.

    This year a bunch of soon to be UFA guys resigned, who are all top 4 (not 1′s, but 2-4 dmen)
    Gleason, Tim » D CAR 1/30 22:43 4 $4,000,000 CapGeek
    Liles, J. » D TOR 1/25 13:02 4 $3,875,000 CapGeek
    Goligoski, Alex » D DAL 1/23 14:51 4 $4,600,000 CapGeek
    Beauchemin, F. » D ANA 1/20 18:42 3 $3,500,000 CapGeek
    Boychuk, Johnny » D BOS 2/14 14:28 3 $3,366,667 CapGeek

    Seems to be around $4 mill for a solid 2/3 dman. I think Smid will get $3.5 or so next year, and it’s good to know that a healthy Whitney and Gilbert should fetch around $4 mill. Still room for a $6.5 mill Suter!!!! Dare to dream.

  48. DBO says:

    Top teams spend on D (top 7):
    Detroit = $21 mill
    Vancouver = $21 mill
    Philly = $26 (with the Rake)
    Washington = $20 mill
    Bos = $17.5 mill (goes up next year with Boychuk getting raise)
    Nashville = $17.5 (WITH sUTER AT $3.5)

    The Oil = $16.7 (thank you to Sutton and BArker cap hit over $2 mill each).

    We have room for a top end paid dman. I hope they throw a bunch of money at Suter or Weber or someone. Cause if you are going to overpay, do so for one of them because it makes your whole team, every special team and your goaltending so much better. Add vets on the cheap to fill out roster, just add a top end dman.

  49. spoiler says:

    MC, I don’t think they were typified as top 4, but rather as too slow and not enough O for that money.

    Sutton can play the top 4 role in limited stretches–he’s second pairing insurance. He brings size, which as stated above adds a premium. So a solid bottom pairing guy, who can play up the line-up, and brings size and meanness and a vet presence on the ice… If there’s a 0.5% cap hit overpay, with no term risk, to have that guy be someone you already have and trust, rather than the unknown quantity for a bit less this summer, well I don’t have a problem with that.

  50. spoiler says:

    DBO,

    I get up every morning expecting to hear Suter to the Wings for a 1st, 2nd and a decent prospect. Something along those lines.

  51. oilersfan says:

    regarding this summer’s ufa dmen. could we have some conversation on greg zannon in minnesota and scott hannan in calgary. i think either would be a decent number four to play with petry, leaving smid with gilbert and whitney with sutton on the third pairing. if whitney is better, great. if he is injured, the oilers won’t be in the mess from like in january this year.

    we all know the oilers dont have a chance at suter or weber so what about one or two tiers below like zanon or hannen?

  52. Marc says:

    The value of a contract like Eberle’s is the notional difference between his actual cap hit and what it should cost for a player producing at the level he is producing at. That value is only realised though if a team spends to the cap, because the team has added players that it would not have been able to add if Eberle’s cap hit matched his production.

    A ‘good value’ contract provides no tangible benefit to a team (other than to the guy who signs the cheques) – you don’t get any bonus points in the standings or added goals in tie games if you have players on ‘good’ contracts – unless a team spends to the cap. So, unless the Oilers are planning to spend to cap next season – and there are no indications that they are – then it’s irrelevant whether individual contracts next year are ‘good value’ or not.

    Once the youngsters start getting their raises at the end of next year, the story may be different . At that point spending to the cap becomes a real possiblity and value contracts become relevant.

    So to refine LT’s premise, the Oilers need value contracts if such contracts are for two or more years (ie. Hemsky’s). If the contract is just for a year though (ie. Sutton’s) then it really doesn’t matter whether or not that contract represents good value.

  53. cabbiesmacker says:

    VOR:

    I think we should focus on talent not age or experience. We don’t have enough talent or depth on D.

    Totally agree VOR. A little covenient to go with a one year sample, then 3, then 5, and Pronger and Lidstrom being their respective teams #1 and in the finals four of the last 5 years sku’s things a tad. Gee, you need a 30+ year old or two at a position the majority don’t get good at until they’re 28? Who knew? NM that the Blackhawks just two years ago blew that theory all to hell with a 26 and 25 year old top pairing.

    Oilers biggest problem is total talent and it applies in goal, on D and F. When you apply “value contracts” to the equation it gets even uglier when Horcoff is thrown into the equation. He’s our Olli Jokinen excepting that he caps out for 2.5 more annually (with term, sigh) and doesn’t contribute in the same way. We belEAGER minor overpays on our 4th line while we fork out close to 12M a year to Jimmy Stewart and Spencer Tracy at F, gamble 2.5 on Don Kotts on D, and hand 4 years at 3.75 per to Foster Brooks in goal. Really??

    Being an Oiler fan the past 5 years is akin to watching a patchwork quilt being put together by three blind optimists.

  54. cabbiesmacker says:

    Marc:

    A ‘good value’ contract provides no tangible benefit to a team (other than to the guy who signs the cheques)– you don’t get any bonus points in the standings or added goals in tie games if you have players on ‘good’ contracts – unless a team spends to the cap.

    The entire Nashville organization would like to respectfully disagree and submit their last 3 seasons as evidence.

  55. Marc says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    Nashville spend to the cap – it’s just a self imposed cap rather than the actual one. They reap the benefits of value contracts accordingly.

  56. spoiler says:

    Nice piece on Trouba between periods.

  57. SK Oiler Fan says:

    knighttown: See, there’s two different ways you can plan your 4th line.1. Find guys that can not hurt you at evens for 3-6 minutes a night and can also fill a role such as enforcer or penalty kill. That would be Darcy Hordichuck, Anton Lander and Lennart Petrell.2. Alternatively, you find guys who can’t do any of that other stuff but that are good enough hockey players they can play up a line or two during times of injury, slump or demotivation. I’d say Ben, Eager, Ryan Jones and Eric Belanger are (marginal) examples of this.The Oilers absolutely love every player to have a role and push their bottom of the roster guys into these places whether they are better than core guys filling them or not. Corey Potter playing first PP. Theo Peckham plays big PK minutes. Petrell, Lander, Belanger, Jones kill penalties.New Jersey and Tampa historically are the opposite. Kovalchuck and St. Louis play 25 minutes a night. Keith, Suter and Webber play 28. Remember when we had CFP? He was first off the bench every period, every PP and every PK. Novel idea but why not play your best players…more often?

    I wish Renney subscribed to this idea. The only way to explain it is Renney is a nice guy when it comes to ice time. Why is one of the worst lines in the NHL being played 8-9 minutes a night at evens?

    Now one could argue that the suckage of the 2nd and 3rd lines is of bigger concern since they are playing a higher percentage of the minutes available, but that’s another discussion.

  58. PDO says:

    Eberle is probably the best bang for buck in the entire league…

    … and we’re spending to nearly the cap. And while we’re not DFL, we’re 2DFL.

    That says all you need to know about this management team.

    Vancouver will run over the Oilers tonight, it is boys against men. I suspect they’ll win 5-2 or some such. Kesler didn’t even play 16 minutes last night, and it was an early game in Vancouver, so travel is a minimal issue.

    I think if you look at what Neal got, you can sign Hemsky long-term to the same years for a cheaper margin and his agent would buy it.

    4.5×6? Maybe doable. Especially if you front load it. Front load it properly and you can deal him in 2 years even if he doesn’t turn it up.

    My big worry is that the Oiler’s draft top 2 and pass up on Evgeni Malkin because he’s from Russia.

    and I hate to say it, but trading Smyth is the smart move.

  59. Ryan says:

    Marc,

    Well ya… Along with Edmonton having a terrible hockey team and the lack of beaches, the available cap space or perception thereof doesn’t help in contract negotiations.

    But that’s okay, because ATMBellini knows that the most important thing is to fill out the bottom of your roster first with overpays on aged washed up players, then use the shrinking cap space leftover to sign talent.

  60. Woodguy says:

    Willis mentioned this on Twitter too.

    The Oiler may go through this trade deadline without trading away 1 player over 30 years old.

    The mantra of “bullets for Stu” as been replaced with “This old man believes in our rebuild, give him a contract/extra year”

    Here is a list of Oilers over 30 years old:

    Forwards:

    Belanger – 34
    Hordichuck – 31
    Horcoff – 33
    Smyth – 35

    Dmen:

    Sutton – 36

    Goal:

    Khabby – 39

    Trade bait:

    Hemsky – 28

    I’m not one for trading a player just because they are older, I believe in keeping NHL Caliber players.

    I am amused about the change in narrative from Oiler HQ to fit whatever they happen to be doing at the moment though.

  61. Ryan says:

    Seriously lol. What we don’t know about Batman is quite a bit. I think he got a bit of a head start in life with his father owning a handful of pharmacies (not quite sure though). Regardless, parlaying that into becoming a billionaire legal drug dealer for Canada and the US (or did he sell the US chains?) can’t be easy. On that note, you’d have to assume that he’s a pretty savvy guy??? Don’t you? If so, you would have to think he wouldn’t suffer fools gladly. see: Tambellini, Steve.

  62. PDO says:

    Woodguy,

    Unreal post.

    If the Oiler’s were interested in building a hockey team instead of an old boys club, I’d imagine they’d be dealing 94 and keeping 83.

    More than anything, I wish there wasn’t a narrative, and just a hockey team that was fun to watch and actually won some games.

  63. spoiler says:

    I don’t know what Khabby would bring back, and if it ain’t much, would we be better off keeping him and see if his value is better next year when there’s a better draft? Like Sutton. Plus we have a load of prospects in they system already and it might be better to hold off a year for picks.

    I could see a sraight salary dump though if the Oil are fed up and want to move on. Khabby to Chi-town for Huet.

  64. Ryan says:

    Woodguy,

    Well yeah. I was against the Sutton signing simply because it violates the rule of buy low / sell high in terms of trading him for any type of pick. Next year, he could be finished / injured in which case he won’t get anything in return. I also don’t comprehend the need to lock up an aged 6/7 dman at this point in time. When will Tyler D get off his butt and fire off a resume to the organization to help with contract negotiations?

    I’m really tired of watching this ankle burning in terms of contract negotiations. Tambellini beaming about Sutton believing in the rebuild after giving him a gift of a 1 year contract just adds salt on the wounds. Never mind the obvious question about Sutton wanting to play here next year because he believes in the rebuild which is scheduled for playoff hockey in 2-3 years when he’ll be retired.

  65. spoiler says:

    Unfortunately, if that happened, Khabby to CHI, I’d be real nervous about Hemsky for Bernier moments later.

  66. Lowetide says:

    Hemsky’s worth half his contract on entertainment value alone. I can’t believe the Oilers have such a short memory and this season is all anyone can recall.

  67. stevezie says:

    Lowetide,

    Amen and Amen and Amen. Call me a sucker, but wins and loses aren’t the only consideration here; I like to watch hockey that’s fun to watch. For years Hemsky was the only thing that made Oilers games entertaining.

  68. rickithebear says:

    stevezie: like to watch hockey that’s fun to watch. For years Hemsky

    Really? heck we could bring back Macintyre for .5M and be equally entertained for 5M less.

  69. TheOtherJohn says:

    Puzzled that many here talk about the possibility of a healthy Whitney which definitely looks like a real stretch based on results to date. Many of the same people are also proponents of the Hemsky “chronic injury crowd” . Which is it, because if I was betting on one of the two of them recovering, my wager would not be on Whitney.

    Oilers would be well served to plan their team without a recovered Whitney

  70. OilClog says:

    I’d like to see the oilers take a small run at Garrison in Florida. He’s ufa this summer, has a boom of a shot, scores some goals, and his numbers stack up well against the rest of the group there. Not a answer for out top D needs, but I’d take him as a welcome addition.

    This whole Hemsky saga is becoming ridiculous.. what else can be said.. majority of fans want him to stay, management is treating him like his last name is Souray.. and we keep watching and showing up. We’re a group that can’t get enough punishment apparently..

  71. DSF says:

    Hopkins reportedly out another seven to ten days.

    It was originally estimated he would be out five to seven days when he last played Feb. 6.

  72. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide:
    Hemsky’s worth half his contract on entertainment value alone. I can’t believe the Oilers have such a short memory and this season is all anyone can recall.

    I think we have some players around that will more than replace the Hemsky memories over the next few years. Being a “good soldier” should never be a reason for paying a guy more than he’s worth on the free market or is capable of contributing. i.e Horcoff

    As for entertainment value, that’s the last thing the Oiler owner needs to worry about. Fans in this city will flock in droves to watch a shitty team play for years before they react and have a history of staying away when winning becomes passe.

  73. pboy says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Puzzled that many here talk about the possibility of a healthy Whitney which definitely looks like a real stretch based on results to date. Many of the same people are also proponents of the Hemsky “chronic injury crowd” . Which is it, because if I was betting on one of the two of them recovering, my wager would not be on Whitney.

    Oilers would be well served to plan their team without a recovered Whitney

    I’d have to say that I don’t think either of those guys are ever going to be completely healthy again in the NHL. That’s the reason I’d be hesitant to commit to either of them in long term deals. If I had to gamble though, I would put my money on Hemmer. Foot injuries are very, very difficult to come back from.

  74. gogliano says:

    RE: Hemsky and the blue.

    A lot of the talk about letting Hemsky go seems to be about cap concerns going forward and moving some money to the blue to try and get an elite D. Given the way they are building this team, and the way dollars are distributed in the current NHL, I think this is entirely the wrong way to go.

    I’d keep Hemsky–with risk he’ll be injured–and spend most of my D money on 3s and 4s rather than trying to get that mythical #1. I’d try to have substantial depth at the position (go 9 deep with real NHL players) but chasing the white whale on defense seems to lead to overypays. There are very few Pronger ’06 contracts out there to be had, or defenseman of Pronger’s caliber. And I’m firmly of the opinion that forwards drive the results and loading up at the forward position is the best use of our capspace–particularly since we have another top pick coming. Draft a forward at #2/#3 and make the other team sweat 3 outscoring lines for the near future.

  75. Ducey says:

    Avg. expereince of top-4 defenseman in SCF since 2006-07: 8.75 seasons. That’s 40 guys.

    So the way I see it the Oilers will wait around until their drafted D is ready.

    By that time they will need to tank in order to get top line scoring because Hall, Eberle and RNH will be in their early 30′s.

    Rinse, repeat.

    The management team has no clue about balance.

    In two years, Gilbert, Whitney, and Smid will have 8, 9 and 8 years experience respectively. Petry will have 4. Add in a vet with 12+ years and a rookie and they should be in the range.

    The reality is that every contender goes out and gets a vet defenseman or two at the deadline that increases the average age too.

    Some extra moaning and groaning in here today.

  76. Lowetide says:

    MIN signs Brodziak for three years. $2.83M a year.

  77. VOR says:

    I think you have to factor into the Oilers needs for D-men that part of the problem is the forwards. The Oilers desperately need their forwards to be stronger defensively and better at tilting the ice towards the offensive end. The opposition forwards get a free pass way too often, entering the Oilers end early and staying way too long. That isn’t solely the responsibility of the D-men.

  78. pboy says:

    That fucking deal still pisses me off. Brodziak played very well here and Stortini, Glencross and Brodz were very effective as a 4th line. He was a RH center who could win a draw, PK and play effective 4th line minutes and he was traded why?

  79. Lowetide says:

    Didnt have enough toughness.That’s what they said at the time iirc.

  80. regwald says:

    pboy,

    What ? The two 4th round picks weren’t enough ? Are you sure ?

    Traded from Edmonton Oilers with round 6 pick in the 2009 draft (Darcy Kuemper) to Minnesota Wild for round 4 pick in the 2009 draft (Kyle Bigos) and round 5 pick in the 2009 draft (Olivier Roy) .

    And just to be sure … insert sarcasm. Why trade away Brodziak, no matter what you thought of him as a player when you have to alternatives or back up plan. Plain dumb.

  81. regwald says:

    As Chuck Fletcher talked about in early December, he’s seen an evolution this season with Brodziak into a leader off the ice, and of course, his play on the ice has been getting better. He’s versatile enough where he can move up in lines, like the last few games where he’s been the top-line center with Mikko Koivu injured.

    Brodziak has scored 40 goals and 98 points in 221 games with the Wild. He’s missed two games here.

    Leadership and doesn’t get injured. Who needs that kind of player ?????

  82. Woodguy says:

    OilClog,

    Not a answer for out top D needs, but I’d take him as a welcome addition.

    I’d say his is the answer for a top pairing D.

    Took on the toughest comp last year on a shitty FLA team and almost broke even.

    Taking them on again this year and coming out well ahead. +0.44/60

    Ducey,

    In two years, Gilbert, Whitney, and Smid will have 8, 9 and 8 years experience respectively. Petry will have 4. Add in a vet with 12+ years and a rookie and they should be in the range.

    Whitney is probably done as a top 4 D. The history of players with his injury is not good. (unlike Hemsky, where players with his injury tend to not re-injure it after surgery)

    I like Smid and Gilbert. Smid is UFA after next year, Gilbert the year after. Do you think management is smart enough to retain them? Will they want to stay after 7 years out of the playoffs?

    If they are here, that’s 2………..

    Also,

    It was average years of a #1 Dman was 12 years. I’m not sure that this management group can pull that off either.

  83. pboy says:

    Lowetide:
    Didnt have enough toughness.That’s what they said at the time iirc.

    Yeah, we were much better off dumping Brodziak and not answering the phone when Glencross was looking for a deal. Lordy, this team is run by guys who could fuck up a child’s b-day party even if you spotted them the cake, balloons and party favors.

  84. regwald says:

    pboy,

    But at least you know you wouldn’t have to pay for CLOWNS !

  85. OilClog says:

    Woodguy,
    I agree with you, but I don’t want the secret to get out, so don’t play it up too much.

    Gilbert/Smid
    Petry/Garrison
    Whitney/Sutton/10 other horses.

    Only problem is I can’t believe that Tallon would actually let Garrison go.

  86. Woodguy says:

    The way the coaching staff is deploying D, you have to wonder what they are thinking.

    They put an injured Whitney and recently returned from injury Gilbert out against COL’s best and got beat soundly.

    Whitney was getting beat pretty regularly by 2nd pairing opposition, why move him up?

    If Gilbert’s ready, play him with Smid, if not keep Petry up there.

    Smid and Petry were the 2nd pairing last game and did well.

    If they deploy Whitney and Gilbert as a pair against the Pisscutters, this one is over before it starts.

    Whitney says he’s a NHL Dman at 80%, but the evidence is not there.

    Gilbert obviously isn’t 100% either.

    Is it standard for NHL GM’s and coaches to make decisions based on their memory of players rather than what they have done lately?

  87. godot10 says:

    Brodziak was traded because

    1) He need a new contract. The Oilers had too many players under contract. Kevin Lowe’s fault.
    2) He was the guy that was tradable. No demand for the other guys.
    3) Lowe and Prendergast were Pouliot supporters. Quinn was a Brule supporter. Katz was a Comrie supporter. Brodziak’s champion (MacT) had stepped aside.
    4) Tambellini was secretly starting the rebuild, unbeknownst to anyone else. Tambellini has Bigos and Roy to show for Brodziak.

    Brodziak and Tambellini were in the wrong place at the wrong time when it came to that decision. Lowe and Prendergast didn’t support MacT’s judgement of Brodziak over Pouliot, and they had the new guy (Brule) who they had spent a year rehabilitating in the minors.

    Was Brodziak someone Tambellini going to go to war for within the rest of management for at that point in time? He took the path of least resistance. Traded the tradable player, and got a couple of picks.

    The trade was a mistake, but I don’t blame this mistake on Tambellini but on Lowe and Prendergast.
    Bigos and Roy are tracking reasonably well for where they were drafted, so Tambellini may yet “win “this in the end if Bigos ever becomes a bottom pairing defenseman and Roy a backup goaltender.

  88. Lowetide says:

    Joey Moss rocks.

  89. Lowetide says:

    The Oilers do not.

  90. spoiler says:

    I need some Swedish curse words

  91. rich says:

    Let’s see. DD sucks as the head coach has no freaking clue how to use him correctly so we’re going to showcase NK and hang him out to dry right from the get go. Now that’s Oiler hockey!

  92. pboy says:

    godot10:
    Brodziak was traded because

    1) He need a new contract.The Oilers had too many players under contract. Kevin Lowe’s fault.
    2) He was the guy that was tradable.No demand for the other guys.
    3) Lowe and Prendergast were Pouliot supporters.Quinn was a Brule supporter.Katz was a Comrie supporter. Brodziak’s champion (MacT) had stepped aside.
    4) Tambellini was secretly starting the rebuild, unbeknownst to anyone else.Tambellini has Bigos and Roy to show for Brodziak.

    Brodziak and Tambellini were in the wrong place at the wrong time when it came to that decision.Lowe and Prendergast didn’t support MacT’s judgement of Brodziak over Pouliot, and they had the new guy (Brule) who they had spent a year rehabilitating in the minors.

    Was Brodziak someone Tambellini going to go to war for within the rest of management for at that point in time?He took the path of least resistance.Traded the tradable player, and got a couple of picks.

    The trade was a mistake, but I don’t blame this mistake on Tambellini but on Lowe and Prendergast.
    Bigos and Roy are tracking reasonably well for where they were drafted, so Tambellini may yet “win “this in the end if Bigos ever becomes a bottom pairing defenseman and Roy a backup goaltender.

    Mr Lowe has been at the top of this organization’s pyramid for a long time now. All of the decisions, good and bad, can be laid at his feet.

  93. pboy says:

    Is Peckham hurt or is he a healthy scratch?

  94. spoiler says:

    The refs are a fucking joke.

  95. OilClog says:

    This is brutal.. Didn’t anyone tell smid touching a canuck player is roughing.

  96. regwald says:

    And I see Jones falling down in front of a back checker was his poor skating skills.

    Crappy refs tonight.

  97. Gerta Rauss says:

    What time does the game start?

    ffs

  98. Lowetide says:

    should have buried the team under all that dirt

  99. Gerta Rauss says:

    pboy: Is Peckham hurt or is he a healthy scratch?

    Apparently he’s ready to go but Krueger is sticking with this lineup due to the sucess they’ve had lately.

  100. OilClog says:

    Bieksa doesn’t do no wrong! Surpized jones didn’t get goalie interference.

  101. Ripoux says:

    Fuggly start.

  102. regwald says:

    Interesting stat there. Canucks are 28th overall with only 14 PIM per game.

    I could never tell based on this game. LMAO

  103. crude says:

    nice little hack by Bieksa.

  104. crude says:

    nice kick by malholtra. I love the canucks.

  105. Lucinius says:

    Didn’t take long for me to remember why I hate watching any game with the Canucks in it.

  106. Lowetide says:

    That was a weird injury to Gagner, it looked like Bieksa barely touched him but he’s hurt for sure. Damn.

  107. CrazyCoach says:

    Ok, last Sunday I lamented that studying was cutting into my hockey time, but after tonight’s first period, I wish I was writing about the female athlete triad again.

    Plus the fact that I’m stuck with the BC feed with John Shthouse and knob gobbler Garret. Well, that’s just too much for me to take.

    Once again too many guys out there with heads up their asses and unwilling/unable to control Vancouver’s possession or motion.

    grrrrrrr

  108. Lowetide says:

    One other thing. I love Ryan Smyth and you know he’s gold, but that’s about 5 times lately where he’s made the poor play he never makes. It’s kind of shocking to see.

  109. Woodguy says:

    Just caught up on the PVR.

    Given the penalties they called on 55, 5 and 83, how does Bieksa slash 89 when he has the puck and not get called?

    Vigneult may have Hamhius and Bieksa out against 4,89,14, but he has Maholtra’s line of forwards against them as well. That’s their 4th line. Not a lot of respect, and given how they shut them down, he’s right to do it too and get a good match up Kessler.

    This Oiler team is a looooooong ways from the playoffs.

  110. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    One other thing. I love Ryan Smyth and you know he’s gold, but that’s about 5 times lately where he’s made the poor play he never makes. It’s kind of shocking to see.

    He started the season like a 26 year old, but his 36 year old body can’t handle 20 min/gm and he’s looking 46 at times.

  111. sliderule says:

    Ryan has bought into the fail for Nail or Gregorenko or Murray or whatever .

    Has anyone seen an oilers backchecker lately?

  112. pboy says:

    Spector is talking about a possible market for Barker at the deadline. Wow.

    Gagner was back out there to start the period.

    Comrade Horcov!

  113. Woodguy says:

    10!

    Good plays by 94 and 77 there too.

  114. Woodguy says:

    I don’t understand pulling Methusala.

    1st goal was hung out to dry, othewr was 5 on 3.

    Maybe dehydrated from seeing 17 shots in 20 minutes.

  115. regwald says:

    Woodguy,

    There you go. Tencer tweets Khabi left with a sore groin. Blame it on the first goal ?

  116. Lucinius says:

    Pulling the goalie isn’t always about the goalie.

    But who knows.

    For all we know he hurt himself. Maybe Kruger’s unsettled stomach made him think he got a gut feeling.

    Understanding the coaching of the Edmonton Oilers is akin to understanding women. You really want to but its just too damn mystifying and frustrating.

  117. Woodguy says:

    Principe has Khabby leaving the game with a sore groin.

  118. Gerta Rauss says:

    Woodguy,

    Garret and Shorthouse mentioned flu but I wasn’t really paying attention.John Garret has to be the most smug color guy in the NHL.

  119. Gerta Rauss says:

    Flu/groin….what do I know?

  120. rich says:

    Khabi having the flu makes sense. If it’s only a bit of the flu, he should start the game but not finish. If it’s full blown, he should play the entire game.

  121. CrazyCoach says:

    Switched over to CHED’s feed. Can’t stand the douchery of the Nucks feed. Rather listen on radio then listen to those two jackasses, especially Garret.

  122. Lowetide says:

    Groin pull for NK. Maybe they’ll pull a Sutton and re-up the Russian in the summer?

  123. art vandelay says:

    “Lordy, this team is run by guys who could fuck up a child’s b-day party even if you spotted them the cake, balloons and party favors.”

    Picking out the best clown ain’t easy.

  124. Lowetide says:

    Just before the third goal, Gagner had a nice rush up ice, he’s really skating well these days. Down 3-1 they’re toast but it would be nice to see the same kind of effort in the 3rd we’ve seen this period. And Lander, hoo boy.

    Love his future, but keeping him this season was stupid stupid stupid.

  125. Lucinius says:

    Sigh, and the period had been going really well.

  126. Lucinius says:

    Paajarvi and Hemsky!

  127. OilClog says:

    John Garret must be silenced.. does he actually believe the brown runny shit that drips from his lips??

  128. Woodguy says:

    Barker -2 so far.

    Can’t wait for the trade deadline to pass so they can quit playing him.

  129. Woodguy says:

    Wasn’t random -2 either. Directly involved in both plays.

  130. stevezie says:

    pboy,

    See, I was mocked for saying there’s a market for Barker but of course there is. He’s a defenceman getting paid two and a half mollion, so unless you watch a lot of OIler games you might think he’s at least okay. There are stats you could bring up to support his goodness, and a couple prominent media memebers helping us out by touting him as a top 3 d-man. Anyone who wanted Sutton would at least ask about Barker, wouldn’t they? I bet we can get at least a fifth.

  131. OilClog says:

    WOW! That was awesome.

  132. OilClog says:

    stevezie,

    I’d take a high five and be happy

  133. pboy says:

    stevezie:
    pboy,

    See, I was mocked for saying there’s a market for Barker but of course there is. He’s a defenceman getting paid two and a half mollion, so unless you watch a lot of OIler games you might think he’s at least okay. There are stats you could bring up to support his goodness, and a couple prominent media memebers helping us out by touting him as a top 3 d-man. Anyone who wanted Sutton would at least ask about Barker, wouldn’t they? I bet we can get at least a fifth.

    I don’t know. Here’s a player who was bought out of his last contract, who was given a new lease on life this year and has had a terrible season with Edmonton. On the 2nd worst team in the NHL, he isn’t deserving to be playing in the bottom pairing.

    Unless the other teams are as terrible in pro scouting as the Oil are, Barker will finish the season in Edmonton IMHO.

  134. Gerta Rauss says:

    pboy,

    Yeah,but he’s a 3rd overall pick!

  135. whale says:

    Got to admit. Nucks are good. Something to strive for without the arrogance.

  136. Lowetide says:

    well, when the Oilers were giving a shit-kicking to Vancouver back in the day you couldn’t find a more arrogant bunch. So, turnabout is fair play although it must suck if you’re 20.

  137. whale says:

    Ya, I suppose that was true. I didn’t notice it back then.

  138. Woodguy says:

    Sutton moves like a tugboat against the current.

    $1.75MM eh?

  139. Woodguy says:

    I like 20 with 83 and 91 better than 57.

    83 best Oiler tonight.

  140. Lowetide says:

    Yeah, but he’s leaving with the fans. Weirdo.

  141. Gerta Rauss says:

    A freebie with the non call on Gilbert late…ha!

    Whatever.

    Another beating on Tuesday in Calgary.

  142. Ripoux says:

    Dog days of a losing season in the middle of a rebuild. Sigh.

  143. Woodguy says:

    I have to say I like the way Kruger coaches more than Renney.

    Put 20 on the 4th line, salted in 83 there after a few ineffective shifts by Petrell.

    Moved 77 up with 5 on the top pair after 58 was shown to be over his head against the Pisscutters.

    Moved 20 up with 91 and 83 for a few shifts as well.

    I like a guy mixing it up when things aren’t working and realizing who is going and who isn’t.

  144. Lowetide says:

    WG: One thing we should be happy about is Paajarvi got a push tonight. I think the Oilers are batshit crazy for dealing Hemsky, and we got an outstanding example tonight. Hemsky is such a wonderful player, if you have any brains at all and possess a stick he’ll find you.

    This is such a sad week.

  145. SteadyEd says:

    First Post. Hello group. I’m going to jump right in and say that right now I’m of the opinion that we shouldn’t resign #94 this summer. I think with this in mind he’d accept a trade. He has value right now on the market. His ‘try’ just isn’t enough for the direction the Oilers need to go right now. I just don’t think he fits.

  146. Lowetide says:

    Steadyed: Welcome! I think–as WG mentioned–they’ve run him ragged.

  147. SteadyEd says:

    A taboo?

  148. SteadyEd says:

    He’s been ragged for the last 25 games and will be for the next 25. That’s a lot of games all together. I think this has happened to his game before too. I’m not a hater or even a negative nancy- I’m just thinking that he’s had this organization over a barrel one to many times.

  149. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    WG: One thing we should be happy about is Paajarvi got a push tonight. I think the Oilers are batshit crazy for dealing Hemsky, and we got an outstanding example tonight. Hemsky is such a wonderful player, if you have any brains at all and possess a stick he’ll find you.

    This is such a sad week.

    It is sad.

    They must think 23 will fill in cheaper so they can spend the money on more +35 contracts.

    Seeing as 14 and 4 will see tough sledding, 23 and 91 should see easier ice.

    Maybe 93 between them?

    Really, really, really soft ice needed.

  150. oilersfan says:

    woodguy

    how do the advanced stats like greg zannon and scott hannen

    thanks

    also if you were gm would you sign hemsky for 5 years and 5 million

  151. SteadyEd says:

    At this point slotting 93 in anywhere is too dangerous. Calgary? Philly? No way. An afternoon in PHX maybe… with Eager on his wing.

  152. jake70 says:

    Habs had a nice pre-game tribute to Carter today…video on the NHL main site.

  153. Schitzo says:

    If Hemsky and MPS could find some chemistry, and we know Hall and Eberle are gold, you can slot in 89 and 93 either way. Resign Hemsky. Sign Penner in the offseason if he’s cheap enough, play him with Horc and Smytty as a tough minutes line. Run 28-20-55 on the 4th.

    Tons of flexibility when the inevitable injuries hit. And if the time comes that you’re squeezed against the cap, move or bury one of 10 or 83 as needed.

  154. cabbiesmacker says:

    Schitzo:
    .Sign Penner in the offseason if he’s cheap enough, play him with Horc and Smytty as a tough minutes line.Run 28-20-55 on the 4th.

    Re-sign Penner?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2u_De8j5o

  155. Schitzo says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    Hahaha, well put. After the season he’s had in LA, though, I wonder if you could get him on a one-year for like $2.0M. At that price, I think he’d add value. He liked Edmonton and would probably be great in the room – if nothing else, he’d teach the kids how you survive the media in Edmonton. Or, if you want to think longer term, Smytty won’t be around forever.

    The big guy may never hit 30 goals again, but he’s been an outscorer in the past. And he’s actually pretty great at sticking up for his teammates. If that’s the only time you see him show emotion, so be it.

    And, since I know it’s coming, I don’t think he’d be a bad influence on the kids in terms of work ethic – that’s so hardwired into guys like Hall and the Nuge that it would take a lobotomy to change them.

  156. Schitzo says:

    Going to be tough to draft first overall this year once the teams in the east begin the fire sale. I wonder what Bettman would do if we sent Hall, Eberle and the Nuge to OKC for the rest of the year… :D

    Can’t be that much more blatant than playing Khabbi for the last three years….

  157. Schitzo says:

    Final thought, as I stay up with a cranky baby:

    Is there any chance at all that Tambo is trading Hemsky with the conscious decision of forcing Eberle to play tougher minutes next year, to reduce the value of his next deal when the counting stats go down?

    I figure the odds are similar to those of finding a unicorn, but…

    P.S..: Does anyone even check the GDT the next morning, or do my ramblings go wasted in the aether?

  158. Schitzo says:

    Okay, I lied, that wasn’t the last post for me.

    If you’re Gillis, would you do Schneider + Hodgson + Ballard for Rick Nash? (Add picks as needed to balance it out). Would you bite if you’re Columbus?

  159. Lowetide says:

    I’d sign Penner for sure, no problem. He had chem with Hemsky and Gagner, that would be a cool line. Penner isn’t a fit in LA, and he’s not going to murder people physically. But he’s not 40 and he hasn’t lost a leg.

  160. stevezie says:

    Schitzo,

    Not only am I reading you, big guy, I’ll even respond.

    Yes, I do think the oilers will play Eberle against tougher comp in an attempt to limit his numbers. I think to what degree depends on how the first half goes: Will there be a point to winning and will we need Eberle lighting it up to have a chance to win or might someone else help carry that burden? It also depends on what degree coaching and management are on the same page. I have no idea how to predict this last factor, which is probably the biggest one.

    I think Van would have to throw in one more solid pick or prospect to your deal. If they did that, I’d say that’s the best deal Columbus is gonna get. If I’m Howson the two teams I’d be selling Nash to hard would be Vancouver and Boston, because those are the only two teams that can give you anything close to a sure thing goalie in return (Schnieder and Rask). People are talking about Philly and LA and whoever else you like, but what has Bernier ever proven? Even Bobrovsky is something of a question mark. Rask and Schnieder are the two guys you can trade for and consider known quantities, and Hodgeson and Hamilton are beyond solid. The deal also allows Van to dump Ballard, so they’ve got to like that (maybe CBS throws a depth d back.) The biggest question mark is Nash’s salary- not just can you afford to take it, but can you afford to have it in your room? How much money did the Sedin’s leave on the table to stay together in Vancouver- would they be pissed that money is going to overpay Rick Nash?

    On a side-note I think the Preds make a sneaky amount of sense for a Nash trade. They have the cap space, and the need to show their free-agents and their fans that they wanna win, and their biggest problem last year was no reliable offence. They have a blue chip goalie, a tonne of good young D, and some decent young forwards. Ellis, Smith/Wilson, Lindback and a 1st? Now, lindback is the least of all the goalies mentioned so far- there’s just no way this package beats what some of the other teams put together. But there’s a chance that after careful consideration, many of the competitors decide they can’t take Nash’s salary. I’m calling Nashville as the darkhorse.
    (I’m aware Nash might not go there, but I think he would. East coast, anonymity, this is a pretty good team with him on it… anyone who would sign long term in Columbus would at least consider Nashville. The bigger question is ownership- Are they willing to gamble that Nash would get them deep enough into the playoffs that it would cover his salary? Could they even concieve a world where they could fit Nash in with their current big 3, and if not is it worth it? Are either of their two D actually considering staying in any case? Because if you know Suter’s going, this might go a long way to at least considering Weber to stay, and vice-versa.)
    Not as likely, or at least not as obvious as LA, Van or everyone else on Nash’s list, but intriguing.

  161. DBO says:

    i read em. and I’ll also comment. A few thoughts from 2 periods (missed the 3rd).
    - Lander – has no offensive confidence (boy he would benefit with top line minutes in minors), but he looked good with Hemsky and Paarjarvi. He’s their Defensive conscience, and two way play he makes great sense with those two. He’s a more skilled Horcoff, and in a few years will be an excellent two way player. He could really use the minors once the Nuge comes back. Let him eat up minutes and get confidence like MPS did.
    - Eager – I like as an 8 minute 4th line guy who can chip in a bit.
    - Belanger – great 4th line player who can move up if needed. Championship teams load up on these guys he is part of the future playoffs, but as a 4th liner.

    So assuming we draft top 3 and go forward (BPA), I wonder if these lines makes sense. It woudl allow us to roll 4 lines, and although we’d have the most expensive 4th line ever, it would be fun to watch, especially if we take into account some maturation from our young centres.

    Hall-Gagner-Eberle
    Smyth-Nuge-Forsberg
    MPS-Lander-Hemsky
    Eager-Belanger-Horcoff

    Horc can move up if needed (probably in place of Lander), but I do believe if they left Lander there to play with offensive players he would be better. Right now he has pettrell and Eager, and he is forced to do too much alone since he has no confidence that those guys can even take a pass. run 3 O lines with one defensively aware player on each line (gagner being the wundertwins conscience)

  162. hags9k says:

    Guys are we really saying here that management may be intentionally setting up Jordan Eberle, perhaps our brightest young star, to struggle/fail next year? That just blew my mind. If that is the case there is no hope left, just pack it up and head to Vegas or KC and put me out of my misery. Somebody put the batsignal into the night sky already. That would be completely and totally outrageous if true but I don’t believe it.

  163. Lowetide says:

    There’s no choice, teams are already focusing on Eberle and when Hemsky is traded Eberle is job 1. Ryan Jones doesn’t scare anyone.

  164. Bar_Qu says:

    Lowetide:
    There’s no choice, teams are already focusing on Eberle and when Hemsky is traded Eberle is job 1. Ryan Jones doesn’t scare anyone.

    That’s not true. I am plenty frightened when I see him back check *snark*.

    There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that has been shown in the last 10 games by Hemsky that makes him necessary to be traded. Especially the way he has gelled with PRV. And the thought of putting Eberle into a season where he is destined to fail swimming with sharks, well, that does not speak of good asset management.

  165. DBO says:

    Good asset management. LOL. When have we had that? I honestly don’t know what to expect from the Oil. Wouldn’t surprise me to see us deal MPS Omark, Marincin, roy and next years 1st (not this year) for Nash. Why? Just cause it is batshit crazy, and I expect the team to either do nothing or do something crazy. Unfortunately, teams like Detroit live in the middle, and shockingly they are successful pretty much every time with their pick ups cause they fill a need, balance the team and make sense financially. Now that’s crazy. Crazy like a fox!

  166. DBO says:

    Copperandblue asked for this on twitter. i replied but not sure if they get it (not good with the whole technology thing). LT can you pass this along, they wanted the quote from Tambellini in regards to the Season ticket holder meeting I mentioned in one of your threads.
    - Tambellini was asked about what we are doing to address the D, since we are stacked with young forwards. He replied “We have some great young defenseman coming, Klefbom, Musil, Gernat and Marincin, in 2-3 years. We just have to bridge the gap until then”.

    LT hopefully you or someone can pass that on since not sure who at CopperandBlue i should message.

  167. Bos8 says:

    The thing that absolutely drives me around the bend is the reactive vs proactive management. They get the ghost of Smyth back, boy that’s really creative. Then play the husk of Horc into exhaustion. Yep, that’s really exciting. Then, just before Hemsky is packed up to go – let’s play him with Paajarvi. Amazingly enough, they look good together – who’da have thunk it. Somehow MPS has no problem playing with Hemsky. Notice on that goal last night, Hemsky was on the left side and MPS was on his off wing?

    But first, they had to run Horcoff time after time. Dingle bob, MPS and Gagner all over the ice and whip Hemsky for non production. It’s like Horcoff and Smyth were going to lead this team into the promised land.

    Gee, the Oilers have six top forwards, if you count Gagner. Let’s stick Horcoff in there, put Gagner on wing and see how it goes. I wonder why we’re getting no production from our players?

    And then there are the two asst coaches. All the kids on the team, you need technicians. With all the bright young coaches out there, this is the best the Oilers could do? Oy, don’t get me started

    Ya can’t fix stupid

  168. stevezie says:

    hags9k,

    I don’t know if I’d call it setting him up to fail- no one is suggesting reducing his minutes or playing him with scrubs. They just might stop cushioning him- trying hard to match him against 2nd tier defenders and giving him favourable zone starts. As has been mentioned, as of right now it looks like there is only going to be one good scoring line next year, so this whole conversation will be moot.

  169. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    woodguy

    how do the advanced stats like greg zannon and scott hannen

    thanks

    also if you were gm would you sign hemsky for 5 years and 5 million

    Zannon:

    Playing the easiest minutes for MIN, ok results.

    QC – 8/8 (easiest)
    QT – 3/8 (3rd best)
    +/-/60 3/8 (3rd best)
    Rel Cor 3/8
    Ozone Start 4/8

    He’s not a target to play tough minutes and the Oilers already have enough bottom pairing Dmen.

    Hannan:

    Playing 2nd/3rd pairing and getting beat

    QC 4/7
    QT 4/7
    +/-/60 6/7
    RelCor 7/7
    Ozone Start 5/7

    Another guy who would fill a position that is already overflowing on the Oilers. EDM is a bottom pairing D heaven.

    also if you were gm would you sign hemsky for 5 years and 5 million

    In a heartbeat.

    I would front load the contract as much as the CBA allows so if I have to move him in a couple years its way easier.

    If its a disaster, then bury him in the AHL if you can’t trade him (doubtful).

    Katz paid $7.7MM in the last 2 years for Souray and Nilsson to not play for EDM, surely you have to take advantage of those pockets in a positive way and make a bet on a very good player.

    Also,

    Ales Hemsky is 27th in the NHL in pts/gm since the lock out. (Mirtle linked to this on twitter)

    If any player on this list wanted to play for the Oilers, the management and fanbase would shit their pants with happiness and couldn’t get him under contract fast enough.

    Except Hemsky.

    Send him away.

    It makes no sense.

  170. Woodguy says:

    If you looked at the link I posted above and then think about what all those players make, Hemsky at $5MM or even $5.5MM would still be among the cheapest.

  171. Woodguy says:

    The frail Hemsky is on pace to play 70 games this year.

    The washed up Hemsky has 14pts in his last 20 games. (0.7pts/gm) with Horcoff as his C.

  172. Woodguy says:

    Khabby out for a week with a groin pull.

    I guess he shows up at Oilers TC next fall.

    Danis gets the call to EDM, Roy gets the call to OKC.

  173. Wolfie says:

    stevezie:
    hags9k,

    I don’t know if I’d call it setting him up to fail- no one is suggesting reducing his minutes or playing him with scrubs. They just might stop cushioning him- trying hard to match him against 2nd tier defenders and giving him favourable zone starts. As has been mentioned, as of right now it looks like there is only going to be one good scoring line next year, so this whole conversation will be moot.

    I disagree with the one scoring line comment. The Oilers miss the flexibility of having RNH in the lineup. With him back you can split up Hall, Eberle, Gagner and the Nuge into pairs… Smyth played very well with the Nuge early in the year….

    Hall-Gagner-Hemsky(re-sign please)
    Smyth-RNH-Eberle.

  174. hags9k says:

    Lowetide,

    I get that this will be the result of a Hemsky deal, but for the plan to be to intentionally muffle Eberle’s output for the sake of lowering his cap hit on his next deal is plain nuts in my opinion.

  175. Woodguy says:

    Ales Hemsky is 15th in the NHL in assists per game since the lockout.

    That one is for Rishaug who characterized Hemsky as “a second line player on some teams, a 3rd liner on other teams”

    15th in the entire league in assists/gm

    27th in the entire league in pts/gm.

    2nd or 3rd liner?

    Really?

  176. rich says:

    Have to admit I’ve not been happy about the way Renney has handled the goaltending (Khabi playing too much, DD not playing enough).

    It may very well be that DD simply can’t get the job done or that Renney feels he’s already been playing too many kids and so he wants a vet behind them. Especially with that set of d-men.

    But for once I really feel bad for Khabi because he had a chance to play himself out of town and possibly go to a team that had a chance to make the playoffs, and now he’s broken down once again.

    I will guarantee one thing. If it is a groin strain there is no way that he’ll be back playing in a week. You can say that timeframe all you want because of the deadline…because it’s obvious now they were showcasing for a trade, but that sure seems out the window.

    And also, I would just hate to see Hemsky gone for many reasons – not the least that I’m not convinced 3.2 will get full value back. As has been said many times dealing real NHL players for suspects/prospects is bad asset management and why teams like the NYI have been as bad as they’ve been for as long as they have.

  177. SteadyEd says:

    The groin strain is a the only way to get Danis in net. I’d certainly want a sneak-peak at Plan B if Plan A is going to be traded away. Nickolai Khabibulin does not need to be showcased.

  178. Ducey says:

    Woodguy, I am not necessarily in disagreement with your narrative that the Oilers should not trade Hemsky, but all the stats you are relying on are per game. The criticism of Hemsky is that he has not played enough games to be relied upon.

    We have no idea what his medical records look like but I imagine that some of the “first off the ice after practice” stuff comes from a belief that he does not do enough to keep himself healthy/ build his strength and therefore is likely to break down again.

    Guys like Andy MacDonald and Marc Savard are great players too, but they just don’t play enough to have an impact.

    Now this year, he says he is healthy but he is 190th in points in the league. There is less focus on him due to the kids playing some or all of the toughs, yet the guy is on pace for a brutal season. He should be lighting it up.

    By my eye, he just doesn’t seem to be trying as hard as previous years. He hardly ever takes the puck in deep anymore (likely because he used to get taken hard into the end boards) but still turns it over plenty high in the offensive zone. He hardly shoots, still giving up prime scoring chances to make the extra pass. He is a great passer but doesn’t seem to be finding guys as often. He seems to have the puck a lot less.

    In short, there is something wrong with the guy. Maybe its adjusting to a new role, maybe he won’t listen to coaches, maybe he has medical problems, maybe he just doesn’t care, or maybe its just bad luck. I’d sure want to know what it is before giving him $20 million over 4 years.

    The Oilers gave out bad contracts to Horcoff, Penner, Souray, Moreau and Nilsson. All of the same themes that might underline Hemsky’s demise were/ became present in these fellas downfalls. If I were GM I’d want to make damn sure I wasn’t going to get burned again.

  179. stevezie says:

    Wolfie,

    If we resign Hesmky we’ve got two good line, I completely agree. I just think that’s a big “if” at this point, though if Andy Dufresne taught us one thing, it’s to not let go of hope.

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