G60 Flyers at Oilers

If you could fly to 1975, hockey fans would tell you the Flyers had enjoyed a charmed life when it came to goaltenders. Parent and Favell at the expansion draft, 2 Stanley’s and then Bernie’s career ends. They grab 1968 Olympic goaltender (Canada) Wayne Stephenson and things roll along. After that, Pete Peeters, Pelle Lindbergh, tragedy, but Bob Froese is there and soonafter Ron Hextall. By now we’re 25 years into the franchise and the goaltending has been sublime.

I’m not quite sure when it happened–maybe it was the year Curtis Joseph was out there and the club signed John Vanbiesbrouck, or maybe it was the year they sent Toronto two firsts for a second stringer–but the Flyers have been born under a bad sign for a long, long time.

Jaromir Jagr had some pleasant things to say about Ales Hemsky in yesterday’s EJ:

“If Wayne Gretzky got traded, anybody can be traded. Whatever management wants to do, they’ll do. Might be good for them, might be good for (Hemsky) He’s got talent. Maybe if he went to a different team it would like a new start. Maybe he gets 100 points. He’s that skilled.”

Steve Tambellini may be in some luck as things are happening as the deadline approaches. If the Oilers plan to deal 83–and that’s my guess–then Koivu’s signing and the early deals outside the Oilers possible targets (a F for DET, NAS, SJS, LAK, BOS, NYR, possibly PHI) should bode well.

There’s no way the Oilers get full value, though. Hemsky’s season is recovering, but not in time for the deadline.

 

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

295 Responses to "G60 Flyers at Oilers"

Newer Comments »
  1. Ducey says:

    Maybe he gets 100 points. He’s that skilled

    100 in one season, or spread over 4? :-)

  2. Henry says:

    I have a fantasy that Kevin Lowe has seen his best player traded for promises too many times over the past 25 years, has a moment of clarity then talks things over with Tambelini. I really would love to see what Hemsky can do when this team gets good.

    25 years since the Coffey trade, I remember that day well. How well did young Dman Chris Joseph turn out as a replacement?

    Jagr seems to think he is going, sigh. Matheson seems to be off his slagging of Hemsky lately, but did he ever crush Dustin Penner at the end of that article.

  3. Woodguy says:

    This will be an interesting game for a few reasons.

    I’ve been impressed with how Krueger has deployed his players. Heads and shoulders above Renney’s decisions with the same players, imo.

    He ran Renney’s lines vs. COL and they lost.

    He mixed it up vs VAN and got spanked, but the best team usually wins and there’s a big chasm in talent between those two teams (which is why you never trade away talent unless talent is coming back)

    Then they smacked around a listless and injured CAL team with what I though was almost optimal deployment of the roster.

    Now they get a chance to do it against a playoff team in PHI.

    PHI can run 3 D pairings that doesn’t leave them out manned in most situations. According to Leftwinglock, they ran Colburne/Timmonen, Kubina/Carle, and Grossman/Mezaros last game.

    I’d expect to see the same tonight. That’ a world away from what the Flames put out the other night.

    The Oilers made the Flames look like they were skating in quicksand, that won’t happen against PHI.

    Good test and should be a good game.

    Oiler’s have a decent home record and might be feeling it a bit.

    If HUMANGOUS BIG starts in net it might get really entertaining.

    Oiler win 4-3

    Hemsky with 2 points. Hall, Gagner, Potter, and Eager with goals.

    DD lets in one softy, but otherwise has a decent night in a shooting gallery.

    Go Oilers!!

    *clap, clap*

  4. Traktor says:

    Hemsky should sit out the final two games until things get figured out.

  5. slopitch says:

    When is the Nuge coming back? 7-10 days my ass!

  6. Traktor says:

    Lowetide: I think you mixed up Finns in your blog post.

  7. Clay says:

    Henry,

    Henry, bud, if that’s your fantasy, you’re taking this hockey stuff way too seriously! Do a Marissa Miller Google image search, stat!

  8. copperblueandwhite says:

    Flyers favoured at -140 although they squeaked by the Jets….I like how the Flyers make bold moves and seemed to have filled the Pronger void with Grossman and Kubina (although his boat leaks at times)…this will be tough and Dubby has to be sharp…winnable but the goaltending has to be there…4-3 Oilers in a shootout would be a kewl outcome…

  9. Henry says:

    Clay,

    I’m married, and Catholic. Limits my fantasies i guess.

  10. Matt.N says:

    Traktor:
    Hemsky should sit out the final two games until things get figured out.

    This is absolutely correct. Won’t happen though. If he does get hurt, it will be final and definitive proof that the Gods of Hockey hate the Oilers.

  11. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    Pop quiz. If you only had these three choices from JW’s be the GM post @ON would you:

    1. Agree to 1 x 6.25M
    2. Agree to 5 x 5M
    3. Hold Hemsky beyond the deadline

    (Or would you do one of the JW’s Hemsky trade scenarios).

    I’d do #2.

  12. stevezie says:

    Henry,

    What about owning a boat? Like a really nice boat.

  13. nathan says:

    So far the top 3 votes from JW’s list are: 5x5M, Voynov from LA, Smith from Detroit.

  14. Ducey says:

    I’d take Smith from Detroit. In real life, he won’t be available.

  15. nathan says:

    Ducey,

    That deal included a third from Edmonton, but I think you’re right unless Detroit believes they can get a contender’s discount before UFA.

  16. Captain Obvious says:

    nathan,

    Those aren’t fair choices. 1 x 6.25 M is so far and away the best choice that there is no debate to be had.

    In terms of money it doesn’t hurt the team because they wont’ be at the cap anyway.
    In terms of the present team, the team gets better because present Hemsky is better than future dreams.
    In terms of trade possibility for the future it doesn’t hurt the team because they can still trade Hemsky next year. The only risk is that his trade value might be lower but that seems impossible. How could his trade value ever be lower than it is now?

  17. Captain Obvious says:

    nathan:
    So far the top 3 votes from JW’s list are: 5x5M, Voynov from LA, Smith from Detroit.

    Well that tells you a lot about the collective thinking power of the voters.

  18. Traktor says:

    Pretty sad that Hemsky has gone from a top RW to player that might not even get you an AHL defensemen like Smith or Voynov. That’s why smart posters like DSF were suggesting to trade Hemsky at last years deadline.

    Personally I would rather trade Hemsky for draft picks and then parlay that into a legit defender. You never know, maybe someone management had ranked in the top 10 falls in the draft.

    I would rather Smith over Voynov but all the rumor heavyweights are saying Detroit has no interest in Hemsky.

  19. justDOit says:

    After Jagr gushed about Hemsky to the media, I’m surprised there aren’t rumours involving Philly.

  20. nathan says:

    “Those aren’t fair choices”

    Captain Obvious,

    Just what Tambo is saying about his real world choices. That hypothetical 1 yr deal has a NMC. What are the odds that Hemsky would do a year just to go through trade deadline madness again? Willis wants to see where people stand if they have hard choices to make. In the real world maybe there’s still a 3-4 year deal for a little more still out there as well.

    If I wasn’t interested in Hemsky long term, the one year deal might be tempting as part of a playoff push before losing him. But if he’s reasonably healthy his value will go past my cap structure, so I do the 5 x 5M.

    LT on the other hand would give up the asset for nothing for a few more months chance at signing Hemsky. If LT won’t do the 5 yr deal the 1 yr option might be better than nothing as it gives him all summer to do a longer deal and there is lot’s of cap room next year.

  21. nathan says:

    Captain Obvious,

    Yeah. It’s a huge lead for the 5 x 5M and another bunch that won’t pick but are optimistic about something close to 4 X 5M.

    Oh. And one guy that figures ST will go with LT’s hold option. Less deliberately. Remember Lawton’s non-existent pick?

  22. godot10 says:

    nathan,

    Ales: 5 X $5 million. You mean I get no effing raise. FCS, that is less than what Horcoff got 3 years ago, and what they offered to Smyth 5 years ago. Jaromir told me at supper last night that there is nothing wrong with new starts in new places. And as soon as I sign that contract, the fans are going to turn on me anyway, just like they did on Horcoff. And when there is no money for the three golden boys, Edmonton won’t be safe for me.

    You Hemsky fans like him so much, you won’t even offer him a 10% raise.

  23. stevezie says:

    godot10,

    As we both know, there are plenty of things that management could say back to that complaint. Rather than rehashing everything everyone has said over the last month, let me just say that I don’t think Ales will get better than that from anyone this summer. You’re acting like 5×5 is an insult, but you don’t really believe that.

  24. Ribs says:

    I’m fine with a $4.51M cap hit (10%).

  25. Jordan says:

    It all comes back to Step 1 of building a championship team:
    Get good hockey players.
    We all know Hemsky was a good hockey player before the injury trouble.

    Is he as good a hockey player? Not based on his results to date. Unless you count posts hit in his goals column. He’s hit a lot of Iron this year. Will he be as good hockey player?

    That’s the big question, and no one can say that about him. Just like no one can say that about Hall, RNH, Eberle, Datsyuk after his surgery, or Nik Lidstrom once he turns 78. The future is unknown.

    What is known, and what is easy to see this year is that Hemksy drives offense. He’s not been as productive, so this could be a boon for the Oilers, in that his price wouldn’t be as high as if he had been putting up the .9 ppg he has played at for years. He fills a hole in the top 6, has chemistry with the franchise, is liked by his team mates (who have actively made this known on their own initiative).

    It’s not rocket surgery.

    Get good hockey players.

  26. Jordan says:

    Ribs:
    I’m fine with a $4.51M cap hit (10%).

    Uh, that was 10% like 5 years ago. 10% now is 6.43M. So… do you mean 10%, or do you mean 4.51M (what is 7% this year, and what will be more like 6% going forwards)

  27. nathan says:

    godot10,

    He’s looking for 4-5 years. 5 years is 125% of his minimum length. And 5M is 122% of his old cap hit. I prefer 4 x 5.25M, but that wasn’t in Willis’s game.

  28. nathan says:

    Jordan,

    Comparing cap hits. And yes a 22% increase to 5M isn’t a annual wage increase. If we knew the cap going forward % of cap would be the best comparison.

  29. DSF says:

    Jordan:
    It all comes back to Step 1 of building a championship team:
    Get good hockey players.
    We all know Hemsky was a good hockey player before the injury trouble.

    Is he as good a hockey player?Not based on his results to date.Unless you count posts hit in his goals column.He’s hit a lot of Iron this year.Will he be as good hockey player?

    That’s the big question, and no one can say that about him.Just like no one can say that about Hall, RNH, Eberle, Datsyuk after his surgery, or Nik Lidstrom once he turns 78.The future is unknown.

    What is known, and what is easy to see this year is that Hemksy drives offense.He’s not been as productive, so this could be a boon for the Oilers, in that his price wouldn’t be as high as if he had been putting up the .9 ppg he has played at for years.He fills a hole in the top 6, has chemistry with the franchise, is liked by his team mates (who have actively made this known on their own initiative).

    It’s not rocket surgery.

    Get good hockey players.

    Sounds easy,

    Unless you live in a cap world and have an internal salary structure to consider.

    If the only directive is “get good hockey players’, even Steve Tambellini could be a competent GM.

    What you should have said is “get good hockey players at the right price and term”.

    Detroit just re-signed Bertuzzi for 2 years/$4.15M.Cap hit $2M.

    Bertuzzi, while long in the tooth, has 12G 17A 29P +24 for the Wings this season.

    Bertuzzi plays 3rd toughest Qual Comp for the Wings behind Datsyuk and Fransen, played 81 and 82 games seasons in the past 3 and averages around 17 goals and 45 points.

    Now, I’m NOT saying Bertuzzi and Hemsky are the same player but you have to ask yourself which GM will likely get the highest ROI in the next two seasons if Hemsky is costing the Oilers $5.5M.

    There’s a reason teams like Detroit and Vancouver have been so successful and much of it has to do with signing players to value contracts not overpaying them based on sentiment and a bushel basket full of wishing and hoping.

    I’ll say it again, Hemsky’s role and production on the Oilers CAN be replaced for less money but it seems many here are convinced that it’s Hemsky or die.

    Sounds exactly like the thinking that led to Horcoff’s contract.

  30. nathan says:

    DSF,

    Speaking of hard choices, which of JW’s options would you do if those were your choices?

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/2/22/be-the-general-manager-hemsky-the-trade-deadline

    BTW, I think Detroit is more motivated to trade for Hemsky that they let on. If anyone can sign him to a lower salary before June it’s the team where players compete for hair cuts for Stanley. You can do that when you’re successful long term.

  31. Jordan says:

    nathan,

    Wow.

    I’m an idiot.

    In related news… >Hey look, there’s Big Ben!

    Also in related news – Oilers consider trading away best player.

  32. Captain Obvious says:

    I’d do 5 x 5 M yesterday. It will be interesting to see what he gets on the open market. It could well be less. We’ll see.

    I also agree that the Bertuzzi signing is a great value for Detroit. However, the Oilers aren’t choosing between Hemsky and Bertuzzi. They are choosing between Hemsky and the mythical creature that the saved $5 M a year would go towards. I am quite confident that Hemsky is going to score more points over the next five years than the nothing that is going to replace him. Unless signing Hemsky were to cost the Oilers actual players his salary is almost irrelevant.

    But we’ll see on that as well. If the Oilers are within $5 M of the cap in the next five years and they used that money intelligently (i.e. they didn’t just turn around and give Eberle $7M) to improve their team then I will admit I was wrong. However, if they don’t sign Hemsky then turn around and spend $4 M on a shit goaltender, or something like that then I will keep bringing up Hemsky’s name day after day.

  33. russ99 says:

    I don’t see Hemsky agreeing to either of those offers LT posted above.

    Considering the insane contracts for mid-level free agents last offseason and an additional expansion of the cap, he’ll get much more than $5 on the open market.

    I’d offer 2 – $6.25, take it or leave it.

  34. fuzzy muppet says:

    The one year deal is a terrible idea.

    If he has an amazing year then you CAN’T afford him after that. You either give him term(3 or more) or you move him.

    I’m pretty meh on the whole situation. If he signs , Great, as long as the $ isn’t Horcoff bad. If they move him, so be it. They CANNOT get nothing and let him walk.

    Hemsky looks like he’s actually getting healthier. His play is improving game by game. Give him 3 years at 5 to 5.5 per with options for 2 more years after that.

    I think that Hemsky is so polarizing (aside from injuries) because of the fact that some people feel that He’s an underachiever. He set the bar pretty high with his 77 point season as a 22/23 year old. Everyone ASSUMED he would keep getting better. He was oozing potential. But for whatever reasons(injuries being #1) he simply hasn’t “gotten better” and that frustrates people.

    The more he plays, the more I want him to sign. If his chemistry with Hall continues to improve, he COULD(not saying he will) put up Sedin-like numbers of assists.

    Too bad he’s only got two more games to convince people.

  35. misfit says:

    Just sign the fucking guy already!

    If you have to sign him for 5 years to get him on a $5M cap hit so be it. If you can use his injury history and current year’s numbers to bring down the number more than that, then great. But you don’t give Khabibulin 4 years, and both Belanger and Eager 3 only to turn around and let Hemsky walk because he wants 4-5 years. That just reaks of the same situation that saw us grossly overpay Horcoff and Souray but dig in your heals in the Smyth negotiations. Looks like Tambellini picks his battles every bit as poorly as Lowe did.

  36. Captain Obvious says:

    fuzzy muppet,

    I like how you put Hemsky having an amazing year as a downside to signing him to a one year contract. Good work.

  37. nathan says:

    Captain Obvious,

    It is a downside if you want him more 3 years out than you want him next year. Next year they won’t go deep.

  38. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Chechmanek – another G disaster in Philly

    Cujo was one, but II believe they also could have signed Belfour in the legion of doom days. This of course was pre-cap with Philly as one of the top spenders. With any goaltending at all that team shoud have had 1 or 2 cups in that era.

    Philly has had one of the top forward lineups in the league forever then finally backed it up with The Rake on D. Of course he’s done for the year (possibly career) and they have a loony tunes Goalie signed beyond Ed Snider’s expected lifetime. I like Philly, great rink to catch a game in by the way, but I’m glad I haven’t been cheering for them since Hextal left.

  39. nathan says:

    On a completely different note. Who gets shutdown for the year first? RNH or Renney?

  40. Jordan says:

    DAMNED EDIT TIME WINDOW!

    DSF,

    DSF, you make a good point about the emotional nature of the Horcoff signing.

    I would posit that this is somewhat different. Not completely, but somewhat.

    The biggest different with this signing is the nature of the team. Because of all the kids on the team, there needs to be a lot of consideration to what kind of message trading hemsky would send about the Oilers desire to win. It tells me they aren’t that interested. Considering how important playing with spirit is to Hall specifically, how do you think telling him “yeah, sorry, the Oilers aren’t really interested in winning” would affect him and his game?

    If I’m in charge of the Oilers, I try to sign Hemsky to a deal that fits the pay structure I have in mind. I’d use Chicago as a comparable, because they also have a 1A 1B scoring situation. I would also listen to offers that include someone coming back that will help the team win. Now. Not in 4 years. Now. If I can’t sign him to a contract that fits the strucutre I want, I try to trade him. If I can’t get what I want for him, then I don’t trade him and let him walk in FA for nothing.

    That’s the message I want to be sending to the kids, the UFAs and the everyone else – we want to win, and if you don’t want to be a part of it on our terms, you can leave. But we’re not going to get rid of you – you actually have to choose to leave yourself.

    Don’t kid yourself – emotions play a huge role in all this. There’s been huge talk about changing the culture in Edmonton for a while now.

    If you want to create change you have to make different choices. This is where it could start.

  41. Woodguy says:

    Ok, the whole Hemsky debate just changed.

    Gregor tweeted : Hearing Hemsky would consider a 2-year deal at $10-11 million.

    He was asked by Tyler if the source was the team or other, he responsed:

    “Both actually…not from managment.”

    So, Hemsky is willing to do 2 years at $5-$5.5MM/yr

    I can’t think of one good reason not sign him.

    He’s up before RNH gets a new contract and there is lots of room for Godot to give 4 and 14 thier $7MM/yr 7 year extension.

    I love how Gregor is negotiating this in the public for Hemsky so management can’t throw around a bunch of bullshit after they trade him.

    If I’m v3.2 and I have Hemsky agreeing to sign this I email all the GM’s who have kicked their tires and give them a Sunday noon deadline to make their best pitch or I’m signing.

    Someone might get really stupid to save their job (i.e. Voynov and a 1st) where you can’t say no.

    Interesting times.

  42. TheOtherJohn says:

    No clue how the current argument about insufficient $$ to pay Hemsky is being raised now. Everyone realizes that salary cap management is a long term process. That process has to be carefully thought through and planned for. The idea about how much $$ the Oilers have to spend on Hemsky should have been made 2-3 years ago. Fully expect Hall, Eberle and RNH will get higher end 2nd contracts.That too should have already been planned for.

    Either the Oilers can afford him. Or they cannot. If the determination, made 2-3 years ago was they cannot, are we really waiting for the last 4 days to maximize the price in return?

    It is very clear that the Oil have nothing in the system to replace Hemsky so it is NOT going to be addition by subtraction. The kids will get better but Hemsky’s absence will leave a hole in our roster (point producer on 2nd line that plays tough minutes)

    Nor do I see how anyone can expect Hemsky to take a short-term contract. He has earned the right to go to the FA marketplace to get what he can. Ruutu’s contract certainly should quiet down the people suggesting Hemsky is going to get less than $20m over 4 years.

    Agree with LT completely that this is not the time of year to be looking for an NHL roster player in exchange for your UFA but NOTHING this management group does surprises me. I would think that team that did not know they were going to trade Smyth 1 hour before the deadline certainly seems to be at it again. Fortunately each of Nilsson, OMarra and Plante should now have just the level of experience to really contribute to this team moving forward

    If Hemsky will take 2 years and $11-12 million do it tomorrow. Or sooner. Unlike Wg I do not ned to see who will pay what for him, at least if the deal includes more magic bullets

  43. Captain Obvious says:

    It’s getting to the point where they can’t say no, but of course they will.

    Still, one can hope.

    1. Sign Hemsky
    2. Get two more real defensemen.
    3. Make playoffs.

    It’s that simple. If they somehow manage to trade an injured Khabibulin that would be great too.

  44. nathan says:

    Woodguy,

    Gregor says closer to 11 than the 10. So somewhere around 5.25M-5.5M per. If true, 3 X 5.25 even look like the right deal all around.

  45. cabbiesmacker says:

    What if madness ensued and Philly’s plane left town with Hemsky + on board and JVR’s bags were left behind on the runway? Kids contract kicks in next year and they have enough coming off the books to give Ales a mediocre raise and a chance at a cup. JVR’s looked good in flashes but there have been rumours the Flyers haven’t been completely enamoured with his play.

  46. Jordan says:

    Woodguy,

    Thanks WG – this is great news!

    I’m super exited to see how this plays out – either everyone gets to find out that Management is intentionally trying to make this team worse, or we get a rediculous offer for Hemsky or we sign him.

    F*** YEAH!

  47. Woodguy says:

    I can honestly say that Gregor is the best thing to happen to EDM Sports MSM since Short stopped writing and went off the air.

    Barnes was ok, but Gregor is a very good interviewer and doesn’t seem to care about raising the hackles of OIler or Esk management.

    Its about time.

  48. stevezie says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    If the Flyers not happy with Van Riemsdyk they have only themselves to blame. His contract is the quintessential example of CO’s cardinal sin: Paying for potential not results. (You could also argue Doughty is a good case of this too, but at least had one phenomenal season.)

  49. Downright Fierce says:

    Woodguy,

    I don’t disagree with that.

  50. nathan says:

    caller: Ruutu @ 4 x 4.75. So much for Hemsky softening on term. We need to go longer. Why not?
    stauffer: Too busy to answer that now. Will before the show is over.
    batman: don’t screw up. you’re killing trade value. we’ll find someone to leak to gregor tomorrow on term.
    stauffer: well folks we’ll try to get to that tomorrow.

    cabbiesmacker, not funny. batman would be happy to get the more famous czech.

  51. LP says:

    Woodguy:
    I can honestly say that Gregor is the best thing to happen to EDM Sports MSM since Short stopped writing and went off the air.

    Barnes was ok, but Gregor is a very good interviewer and doesn’t seem to care about raising the hackles of OIler or Esk management.

    Its about time.

    Amen to that.

    Too bad he doesn’t get the praise he deserves. Listening to Spec and Gregor is often comical. Yet, spec is supposedly the ‘expert’.

    c’mon.

    oh, and sign Hemsky, please.

  52. Traktor says:

    If Edmonton wants to get good value for Hemsky then wouldn’t it make sense to leak that Hemsky signing isn’t impossible?

    Its like with Toronto and Kaberle last year. You aren’t bidding for a UFA because if they don’t get what they want they will just re-sign him. Any bidding team needs to make an offer strong enough that Edmonton will decide to take a pass on Hemsky. Essentially you are bidding on a player that Edmonton doesn’t view as a UFA.

  53. LMHF#1 says:

    Woodguy:
    I can honestly say that Gregor is the best thing to happen to EDM Sports MSM since Short stopped writing and went off the air.

    Barnes was ok, but Gregor is a very good interviewer and doesn’t seem to care about raising the hackles of OIler or Esk management.

    Its about time.

    This is unfortunately negated by the mistakes he makes when it comes to basic, factual items.

  54. rich says:

    It’s really interesting how with this management group that the players have taken it among themselves (and their agents too) to get word out to the public to force 3.2′s hand. First Smyth, to a much lesser degree Sutton and now Hemsky.

    Makes it much harder to BS the paying public as Woodguy states.

    But also sheds light on the final decision making process for better or worse.

  55. Traktor says:

    I have nothing against Gregor but in terms of being connected Stauffer is McKenzie, Rishaug is Lebrun and Gregor is someone from hockeybuzz.

    If Gregor is getting info that Stauffer isn’t I suspect there is a reason for it and its not because Gregor has better connections.

  56. nathan says:

    Gregor’s talking about what Hemsky would sign for. Not saying what the Oilers would do. Claims sources from both sides re: Hemsky’s position.

  57. cabbiesmacker says:

    If the tweets are true and he’ll sign for as low as $5M per for 2 then why wouldn’t ST try to get 3 yrs or 4- 5 at $4.75? Doesn’t sound like Hemsky’s in a great hurry to leave does it?

  58. Captain Obvious says:

    Yeah, I kind of like Gregor. He’s got some big blind spots but at least he isn’t a complete hack. That’s a miracle onto itself since he spends all his time talking with guys like Spector, Brownlee, and Rishaug whose next independent thought will be their first.

    [Edit] That said, this is all nonsense and I’ll believe it when it happens.

  59. cabbiesmacker says:

    Gregor’s know it all but know nothing stance re the summer suicides left me cold. The voice is akin to fingernails down a chalkboard as well.

  60. nathan says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    Gregor “When I asked about a two-year deal for $11 million it wasn’t laughed at and it sounded like they’d seriously consider that option”. Gregor also tweeted closer to 11 than 10. So assume he’s asking 2 x 5.25-5.5. No clue how he goes lower with length. But not hard to see a great 3 year deal from there.

  61. nathan says:

    Stauffer’s was just asked about 2 yrs at 10-11M. If Oilers offer he says 2-3 years, ideally 2 at 10M minimum offer. So you’ve got Stauffer and Gregor both playing with the 10-11 over 2 narrative. That’s a $500K / year gap. Maybe they close the gap easier with a 3 year deal.

    realchukski11: Love listening to local radio shows now and how they kiss hemskys ass all of a sudden after some results lately @Bob_Stauffer @JasonGregor

    Stauffer on air: Not kissing butts. His teammates know how good he is.

  62. bookje says:

    Woodguy: in the public for Hemsky so management can’t throw around a bunch of bullshit after they trade him

    It is interesting. I wonder how much of this is about ‘attitude’ and I am not one to say that I know anything about Hemsky’s overall attitude – I can’t read body language like some here can and I have seen Hemsky be both a very hard worker in games and, at times, a bit of a slacker – the latter may be because of injury, pathetic team related depression, or some other reason that may well go away as time passes.

    What I am saying is that management may be focused more on some kind of ‘good attitude’ measure and may be overvaluing it due to the chaos following 06 in the same way they let ‘coke machines size’ override all other variables for a time in the draft.

    I think this might be one of those players that you allow the talent override the attitude UNLESS there is a really big problem w/Hemsky like he is bringing crack, pancakes, and whores into the dressing room and corrupting the kids.

    I really have no idea – but it will be interesting to see it play out.

    Much of our angst on this blog might be our overeating to ST doing due diligence to get the best trade or contract possible combined wth Hemsky using what he has at his disposal (i.e. Jagr’s comments) to do the same.

  63. ashley says:

    It sounds like Tambellini is in the driver’s seat here. I realize that many think that we are going to get hosed in some way or another, but it sounds like he’s got a player interested in resigning that will agree to a term that works for the franchise. If that is the case, signing him today or yesterday or any day before Sunday/Monday would be foolish since his trade value will likely be maximized at the trade deadline when contenders stop playing lowball games (ie DET….we’re not really interested in Hemsky while they salivate over the potential he would bring) and pony up what they are truly willing to part with. While signing him this afternoon would put all of us out of our misery, it’s worth the wait to see what the other GM’s want to give up, and Tambellini won’t know that until Monday. Then he can choose to sign or trade. They are playing the game. Based on rumoured offers, the most obvious decision is to sign him for 2 or 3 years, but that could change on Monday.

    I know I’ve said it before, but is it possible that we have always painted Tambellini in the wrong negative light, a reputation he seems to have earned largely because he gives an awkward interview? I would argue that it is at least possible he might be average at this job, and there is an outside chance he may even be better than average.

  64. Captain Obvious says:

    bookje,

    I’d like to believe that a lot of this is “due diligence” or playing hardball. I want my general manager to play hardball and get the best deal he can. I also want a general manager who isn’t afraid to walk away from a deal. The problem is if Tambellini is capable of hardball why didn’t he exercise it with Sutton or Barker. It’s pretty clear he wasn’t playing hardball in those negotiations. This makes me conclude that he isn’t playing hardball he’s being maneuvered into a good position in spite of himself (a la Smyth).

  65. nathan says:

    “”Much of our angst on this blog might be our overeating to ST”

    Over-eating? Always wondered why Penner stacked the pancakes high around the deadline.

    Heard Hemsky is first off the ice to get to the beer, chicken and video games.

    Captain Obvious, Wanting to see more games and getting concessions on term are enough to explain the wait. If he doesn’t offer today or tomorrow he’s not serious.

  66. Traktor says:

    So is everyone fine with waiting for Musil, Klefbom ect to help Edmonton’s D?

    Because assuming we can sign a top D via free agency seems pretty foolish.

    Personally, I have no problem sticking with the tortoise rebuild philosophy but I suspect as soon as Tambellini signs Hemsky the conversation is going to shift to Edmonton’s defense and Tambellini is going to receive a ton of criticism for not upgrading Edmonton’s D.

    If the plan is to make the playoffs next year who exactly are we going to trade to address the huge hold on D? Gagner? Picks and prospects?

  67. LMHF#1 says:

    Traktor:
    So is everyone fine with waiting for Musil, Klefbom ect to help Edmonton’s D?

    Because assuming we can sign a top D via free agency seems pretty foolish.

    I’d say no and no to those points.

    I also don’t think we need a “top D” in order to compete with our forward roster and better goaltending.

  68. godot10 says:

    A contender (Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York, San Jose) is NOT going to offer Hemsky more than two years. That is why Tambellini has to hold the line at two years, and not worry so much about the dollar amount.

    The UFA free agent defensemen will come when it looks like the Oilers will contend. The good thing is that it looks like they Oilers have three legit guys, Gilbert, Smid, and Petry. Whitney has a health question mark. The Oilers need one more decent top 4 guy to be competitive, and then they can wait for a free agent whale to eventually come, and wait for the prospects.

  69. PDO says:

    I’m fine with a “Vancouver” D… don’t need anyone elite, just a lot of quality players.

    I’d really love to be on the other end of a magic beans deal as well.. Pitlick, a 2nd and Peckham? That’s 3 assets!

  70. TheOtherJohn says:

    Ashley

    We paint Tambellini in a negative light because of his body of work. I have no freaking idea what kind of interview Ken Holland gives but picking up Kyle Quincy for a 1st round pick 27-30th overall is pretty damn good work. Well it is if you did not use a mask and a gun in making the trade.

    Not sure what evidence you would be pointing to to suggest he is an average GM

  71. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    If Edmonton wants to get good value for Hemsky then wouldn’t it make sense to leak that Hemsky signing isn’t impossible?

    Its like with Toronto and Kaberle last year. You aren’t bidding for a UFA because if they don’t get what they want they will just re-sign him. Any bidding team needs to make an offer strong enough that Edmonton will decide to take a pass on Hemsky. Essentially you are bidding on a player that Edmonton doesn’t view as a UFA.

    That’s a good point.

  72. Traktor says:

    PDO:
    I’m fine with a “Vancouver” D… don’t need anyone elite, just a lot of quality players.

    I’d really love to be on the other end of a magic beans deal as well.. Pitlick, a 2nd and Peckham?That’s 3 assets!

    Edler is close to an elite D. He has the 3rd most points in the league and he isn’t a fancy dan.

    I think its safe to say that we aren’t going to sign an Edler via free agency.

  73. Woodguy says:

    LMHF#1: This is unfortunately negated by the mistakes he makes when it comes to basic, factual items.

    His history is what it is (YOU ARE WRONG), but he’s changed some of his opinions over time and isn’t as dogmatic as he used to be.

    Having an open mind and willingness to change your opinion is an admirable trait.

    He’s also the only MSM guy not throwing Hemsky under the bus, so you know that plays well with me.

  74. Jordan says:

    Traktor,

    I dunno Trak. Petry’s continuing to improve, and is looking more like a top 2 D-man than he is a bottom 6 prospect. Smid has become a Stud top 4 shutdown Dman. Whitney is looking better, and seems to be getting his legs back under him.

    Gilbert has not looked right since he came back from injury. I don’t think he’ll be right until next season, whether he shuts it down or not.

    Those 4 aren’t an amazing top 4, but they are definitely workable. You take Barker out of the picture entirely, and have potter and Sutton on the bottom 6?

    That’s not deep, but its functional. A smart GM would still get some Whitney insurance, but that’s not a bad crew to run on the back end.
    PDO,

    I like Pitlick a fair bit, but if he, Peckham and a pick bring back a #3-#4 guy…. it needs to be considered, no? I’d be worried about how that turns out in a couple of years, but for the right player, I’d pull the trigger.

  75. rickithebear says:

    Two years at 5.5 gives Our RW prospects more time. the 1.4 bump. fits the buyouts comming off.
    and IT IS NOT 5-6 YEARS.
    now a Dman

    Smid – Petry
    XXX-Gilbert
    Whitney-Klefbom
    Sutton-Potter

  76. Woodguy says:

    It’s really interesting how with this management group that the players have taken it among themselves (and their agents too) to get word out to the public to force 3.2′s hand. First Smyth, to a much lesser degree Sutton and now Hemsky.

    Tambellini didn’t want Smyth.

    Word is that he wanted a kid (my guess is 91) to get that ice time.

    It had to go up the chain a notch or two to get done.

    The Oilers knew well before the draft that Smyth wanted to come home. They didn’t want him.

    Smyth traded himself to Edmonton.

  77. Woodguy says:

    I’ll say it again, Hemsky’s role and production on the Oilers CAN be replaced for less money but it seems many here are convinced that it’s Hemsky or die.

    You truly believe that Higgins or Booth could have got Horcoff his contract too?

  78. spoiler says:

    Woodguy:
    It’s really interesting how with this management group that the players have taken it among themselves (and their agents too) to get word out to the public to force 3.2′s hand. First Smyth, to a much lesser degree Sutton and now Hemsky.

    Tambellini didn’t want Smyth.

    Word is that he wanted a kid (my guess is 91) to get that ice time.

    It had to go up the chain a notch or two to get done.

    The Oilers knew well before the draft that Smyth wanted to come home.They didn’t want him.

    Smyth traded himself to Edmonton.

    Exactly, nor did they want Penner, nor are they super-keen for Hemsky. Hmmm.

  79. Woodguy says:

    ashley,

    I know I’ve said it before, but is it possible that we have always painted Tambellini in the wrong negative light, a reputation he seems to have earned largely because he gives an awkward interview?

    No, he has a pretty shitty track record when acquiring pro players.

  80. PDO says:

    Traktor: If Edmonton wants to get good value for Hemsky then wouldn’t it make sense to leak that Hemsky signing isn’t impossible?

    Its like with Toronto and Kaberle last year. You aren’t bidding for a UFA because if they don’t get what they want they will just re-sign him. Any bidding team needs to make an offer strong enough that Edmonton will decide to take a pass on Hemsky. Essentially you are bidding on a player that Edmonton doesn’t view as a UFA.

    When did he upgrade from V3.2 to V9.0? No way he’s anywhere near savvy enough to pull that off.

  81. PDO says:

    I like Pitlick a fair bit, but if he, Peckham and a pick bring back a #3-#4 guy…. it needs to be considered, no?I’d be worried about how that turns out in a couple of years, but for the right player, I’d pull the trigger.

    I’d find out if NYR is serious about Nash.

    If they are, they’ve been linked to Peckham forever, they’d need cap space, and they’d like some shiny things to replace the ones headed to Cbus.

    Girardi?

    Jordan,

  82. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Woodguy:
    It’s really interesting how with this management group that the players have taken it among themselves (and their agents too) to get word out to the public to force 3.2′s hand. First Smyth, to a much lesser degree Sutton and now Hemsky.

    Tambellini didn’t want Smyth.

    Word is that he wanted a kid (my guess is 91) to get that ice time.

    It had to go up the chain a notch or two to get done.

    The Oilers knew well before the draft that Smyth wanted to come home.They didn’t want him.

    Smyth traded himself to Edmonton.

    This is a very interesting trend – perhaps a very positive one for supplanting the hold the Oilers/KLowe/Tambi have on the narrative.

  83. Traktor says:

    Jordan:
    Traktor,

    Those 4 aren’t an amazing top 4, but they are definitely workable.You take Barker out of the picture entirely, and have potter and Sutton on the bottom 6?

    That’s not deep, but its functional.A smart GM would still get some Whitney insurance, but that’s not a bad crew to run on the back end.

    That group is decent but probably no better than the 20th best D in the leauge. Petry has been really impressive the last 10-15 games though.

  84. Marc says:

    Woodguy:
    It’s really interesting how with this management group that the players have taken it among themselves (and their agents too) to get word out to the public to force 3.2′s hand. First Smyth, to a much lesser degree Sutton and now Hemsky.

    Tambellini didn’t want Smyth.

    Word is that he wanted a kid (my guess is 91) to get that ice time.

    It had to go up the chain a notch or two to get done.

    The Oilers knew well before the draft that Smyth wanted to come home.They didn’t want him.

    Smyth traded himself to Edmonton.

    Where is the evidence of this? I’ve heard conjecture but I’ve not seen any actual evidence from any reputable source that it is true.

    The fact is Tambellini got a very good player for peanuts. None of Lombardi’s tactics for driving up the price – the leaks to the media, talking to Calgary, complaining to the League – worked. Publicly showing any enthusiasm for Smyth could in no possible way help the Oilers in the negotiation with LA – it could only give Lombardi more leverage.

    Tambellini gave Lombardi nothing to work with to improve his bargaining position and Lombardi ultimately made a very bad deal.

    Yet this is somehow evidence that Tambellini is a shitty GM?

  85. Traktor says:

    PDO: When did he upgrade from V3.2 to V9.0?No way he’s anywhere near savvy enough to pull that off.

    True.

    If Hemsky plays tonight we know exactly how smart our management team is.

  86. TheOtherJohn says:

    Want another scary thought delete Smythty from this roster and add Colin Fraser, I.e. Deals Tambi did not want to make. Course we’d be beating Columbus in DFL hockey

  87. nathan says:

    Expert Body Language reader Rishaug agrees with Gregor on paying 2 x 5.5M. Doubts Hemsky takes a 2 yr term. Brownlee windering what’s wrong with 1 x 4.1M.

  88. Lucinius says:

    I found it astounding that Lebrun said the Oilers are crazy for even considering re-signing Hemsky regardless of contract/term (TSN radio today).

    I mean, seriously? I can understand with the argument that the Oilers should not re-sign him long term (not one I agree with, but I can understand it), but that they’re crazy for even talking to his agent? It made me lose what little weight I put on any of his opinions if he’s that out to lunch.

  89. Marc says:

    Now look at the Hemsky situation. If it were generally known that the Oilers and Hemsky were so far apart on a contract that there’s no chance he’ll re-sign, Tambellini would have no leverage with the contenders looking for a deadline deal. Why would they give up a Voynov or an Ellis when they know that Tambellini will have to cave or risk losing him for nothing?

    And if Hemsky knows that OIlers really want to keep him, why would he not leverage that into a long term deal that gives him a pay raise?

    Here we are several days before the deadline Hemsky’s camp now seem to believe that the Oilers would seriously move him rather than give him a long term deal. And suddenly we’re hearing that he’s open to a shorter deal with a small raise. And the teams that were looking at Hemsky now know that the Oilers have realistic options if they don’t see a deal that they like, which can only drive up the price.

    By not seeming to keen to re-sign Hemsky, nor too keen to trade him, the Oilers have improved their bargaining position both in terms of re-signing him and in terms of trading him. That is a good place to be.

    I think Ashley’s point is that it may not be chance, but skillful handling of a tricky situation, that got us to this position.

  90. ashley says:

    TheOtherJohn: AshleyWe paint Tambellini in a negative light because of his body of work. I have no freaking idea what kind of interview Ken Holland gives but picking up Kyle Quincy for a 1st round pick 27-30th overall is pretty damn good work. Well it is if you did not use a mask and a gun in making the trade.Not sure what evidence you would be pointing to to suggest he is an average GM

    A fair comment, and don’t get me wrong, this is as much wishful thinking on my part than anything else (especially in the face of a contract extension for the big boss). However, I would argue at least half of his moves have been pretty good.

    The buy outs from a few years ago, flushing Storts, Mac, JDD, MAP and JFJ, the Sutton trade, the Penner trade, the Belanger/Eager signings, and giving in to the Smyth trade. The Cogliano trade was reasonable value, and helped bring a little more balance as we suddenly were deep at center. I liked the Khabby signing, but the term was too long, so half points for that one.

    I even liked the way he handled the Souray situation. The Oilers needed to stand up for themselves as their public image was at an all time low. Overall, that is a reasonable body of work.

    We can’t expect any GM to hit on 100% of his/her bets, but he was handed a team of almost pure crap that was somehow spending to the cap. Most of the players that were playing on the Oilers could not crack the lineup in any other city (Stone, JFJ, Stortini, MAP, JDD, Strudwick, Foster, Stortini, Mac, POS, +/- Fraser & Brule…I’m sure I’ve missed some as they are all rather forgettable). That’s a pretty sorry bunch of guys to have under contract and call yourself an NHL team. His job is not just a rebuild, but he has to clean out the henhouse first, and do it strategically so he positions the team for suceess with its emerging star players while staying within the future cap and all the while trying to ice an entertaining NHL hockey team that fans will come to see.

    He’s no Chia or Holland, but maybe he’s not so bad either?

  91. Downright Fierce says:

    Marc: Smyth traded himself to Edmonton.

    Where is the evidence of this? I’ve heard conjecture but I’ve not seen any actual evidence from any reputable source that it is true.

    It was one of the first things to come to light about the trade:

    Smyth asked Kings general manager Dean Lombardi for the trade but didn’t anticipate the circus that would surround it. “My wife and I discussed it just after the end of the season and we really felt it would be best if we could orchestrate it, talk with Dean about it,” he said.

    Pretty clear that Toonces barely lifted a finger to get the trade done.

    Sources: 1 2

  92. pboy says:

    Traktor: I have nothing against Gregor but in terms of being connected Stauffer is McKenzie, Rishaug is Lebrun and Gregor is someone from hockeybuzz.If Gregor is getting info that Stauffer isn’t I suspect there is a reason for it and its not because Gregor has better connections.

    Except that McKenzie is impartial and Stauffer is basically a mouthpiece for management and uses his bully pulpit to test the waters with the fanbase.

  93. Marc says:

    Downright Fierce,

    I know that Smyth got things started. But a lot of players quietly ask to be moved – Visnovsky being a recent Oiler example. But the team doing the moving usually ends up with more than a 7th round pick and an injured shitty 4th line center in return for a top six forward. When Tambellini heard that Smyth wanted to come back, he could have called up Lombardi and asked what it would take to get him. That might have cost the Oilers Pitlick and a 2nd instead of Fraser and a 7th.

    What I am asking for is evidence that Tambellini incompetently ignored the fact that a good player really wanted to come to Edmonton and that the trade happened in spite of Tambellini, which is what Woodguy indicated.

    An alternative explanation is that when Tambellini heard that Smyth wanted to come back, he made Smyth force the issue with Lombardi, rather than proactively moving to get him. This took away all of Lombardi’s leverage in the trade negotiations, which Tambellini took full advantage of, eventually picking up Smyth for a fraction of his value.

    Where is the evidence that the former explanation is true and not the latter?

  94. jake70 says:

    Jagr:

    “I missed about 10 games. I came back, got reinjured again. Maybe I came back too early, I wasn’t ready. I don’t like sitting around. I didn’t miss a game the last seven years and all of a sudden I pull my groin. Maybe I didn’t know how to treat it, how to be patient,” said Jagr.

    Guess Philadelphia should give it’s trainers pink slips and road maps?

  95. Ducey says:

    Doesn’t sound like Hemsky will be going to LA. Rumours reported by Gregor on his show are Carter to LA for a package including Jack Johnson. I am guessing Toffoli and a 1st as well.

    Pretty sure Gregor’s “body of work” would be crap were he not for retaining Hemsky these days.

    People need to take Gregor’s information with a grain of salt. I wouldn’t expect Hemsky’s agent to tell Gregor on the record that Hemsky had any restrictions on what he would take. What he tells Tambo is likely to be much different.

    I’m hopeful they can get him signed for 2 years at the 10 to 11 million, unless someone knocks them over with a stud defence prospect.

  96. Ribs says:

    jake70: Guess Philadelphia should give it’s trainers pink slips and road maps?

    It’s just not the same when you don’t have your own personal trainer rubbing your groin down for you in between shifts. Maybe in his next lifetime.

  97. Woodguy says:

    Marc: Where is the evidence of this?I’ve heard conjecture but I’ve not seen any actual evidence from any reputable source that it is true.

    The fact is Tambellini got a very good player for peanuts.None of Lombardi’s tactics for driving up the price – the leaks to the media, talking to Calgary, complaining to the League – worked.Publicly showing any enthusiasm for Smyth could in no possible way help the Oilers in the negotiation with LA – it could only give Lombardi more leverage.

    Tambellini gave Lombardi nothing to work with to improve his bargaining position and Lombardi ultimately made a very bad deal.

    Yet this is somehow evidence that Tambellini is a shitty GM?

    Where did I say Tambellini was a shitty GM becuase he didn’t want Smyth?

    I think he”s a shitty GM because he pays more than market, gives out term that is too long and has a terrible record in signing UFAs and trades.

    The (rumoured) fact that he didn’t want Smyth has nothing to do with my opinion of him.

    I actually would have preferred 91 getting 94′s ice time given the tanking, but 94 is a beauty. Always will be too.

  98. nathan says:

    Ducey,

    Get that. Gregor says that’s not his only source.

  99. Lowetide says:

    I know Jason well enough to say that he wouldn’t publish it or talk about it unless he had some good sources. Suspect there’s something to it, although whether they get it done in time is another matter.

  100. Ducey says:

    Where is the evidence that the former explanation is true and not the latter?

    This is the internet. People don’t need evidence. All they needis an internet handle and they are instantly smarter than everyone else.

    My brilliant suggestion is that I think Tambellini runs a pretty tight ship and works hard not to let information out. The last two drafts have been pretty much down to the wire. The Barker signing was a surprise as were their free agent signings.

    As a result, he tends to get slagged compared to a Burke who is constantly managing the message in the media.

  101. mc79hockey says:

    Re: Gregor

    I’ve really come around on him. I actually emailed him a few months ago after listening to him interview someone – he’s an excellent interviewer. Stauffer puts his own opinions to people and, as a rule, I think that gets worse results. People want to agree. Jason’s really good at getting people to talk and asking pertinent questions.

    He had me on when that Campbell business was a story too, which I thought reflected well on him. Not that it was me but that it was a story, we’d had our quarrels in the past and I’d argued my points as I do. If I was him, I might have passed; but it was a big story and he overlooked any past disputes!.

    Re: Hemsky

    I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t doubt the truth of the story but Incan’t imagine advising him to take that deal if I repped him. Hope it’s true.

  102. Woodguy says:

    Howson is chanellling his inner Sutter if he takes a middle 1st pick and a faster version of Barker with an anchor contract for Carter.

    Someone should take his keys away if this is real.

    If Lombardi ditches his terrible contract with Johnson and gets Carter in the same deal he might save his job.

  103. DBO says:

    Helene Elliot (who is a real LA kings reporter beat writer) saying looks like a 1st and Johnson. Maybe more but that might be it. Wow, Tambellini is ok I guess.

  104. Marc says:

    Woodguy,

    Fair enough. I read the comment as a criticising Tambellini’s handling of the matter but sorry for misinterpreting.

  105. DBO says:

    And TSN, Mackenzie and the panel saying same thing. no confirmation, but when Bob says “looks like”, prob real close.

  106. Woodguy says:

    Ducey:
    Where is the evidence that the former explanation is true and not the latter?

    This is the internet.People don’t need evidence. All they needis an internet handle and they are instantly smarter than everyone else.

    My brilliantsuggestion is that I think Tambellini runs a pretty tight ship and works hard not to let information out.The last two drafts have been pretty much down to the wire.The Barker signing was a surprise as were their free agent signings.

    As a result, he tends to get slagged compared to a Burke who is constantly managing the message in the media.

    No he gets slagged because his track record is bad.

  107. Smarmy says:

    On The Fan on Sportsnet. Healy and Cox figure Khabby would be a difference maker for the Leafs. I wish Burke would agree. I’d even take the Monster…

  108. Woodguy says:

    Marc,

    Thank you Marc.

  109. Gerta Rauss says:

    Craig Anderson injures his hand in a freak at accident at home-he’s out indefinitely.

    Maybe Ottawa is looking for a goalie..?

    No word if any pancakes were involved in the incident.

  110. Woodguy says:

    Smarmy:
    On The Fan on Sportsnet. Healy and Cox figure Khabby would be a difference maker for the Leafs. I wish Burke would agree. I’d even take the Monster…

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    Experts.

  111. jake70 says:

    Ribs: It’s just not the same when you don’t have your own personal trainer rubbing your groin down for you in between shifts. Maybe in his next lifetime.

    Lol.

  112. Lowetide says:

    Canucks ALWAYS get up for the big game.

  113. DSF says:

    Woodguy:
    I’ll say it again, Hemsky’s role and production on the Oilers CAN be replaced for less money but it seems many here are convinced that it’s Hemsky or die.

    You truly believe that Higgins or Booth could have got Horcoff his contract too?

    No one but Kevin Lowe could have got him that contract.

    Anyone with modicum of common sense (1 or 2 people) was cautioning the Oilers not to sign Horcoff when they did.

    If he had been signed a year later, he’s be on a 4 year $4 million deal with no NMC.

    (and still overpaid)

  114. DSF says:

    Carter to LA for Johnson and a first is a done deal.

  115. Woodguy says:

    DSF:
    Carter to LA for Johnson and a first is a done deal.

    No extra body?

    That is firing offense for Howson.

    Terrible.

  116. Professor Q says:

    Looks like the Kings are trying to emulate the Flyers.

  117. hockeyguy10 says:

    TheOtherJohn: AshleyWe paint Tambellini in a negative light because of his body of work. I have no freaking idea what kind of interview Ken Holland gives but picking up Kyle Quincy for a 1st round pick 27-30th overall is pretty damn good work. Well it is if you did not use a mask and a gun in making the trade.Not sure what evidence you would be pointing to to suggest he is an average GM

    Holland let Quincy walk for nothing 3 years ago.And now he is a genius because he gave up a first round pick to get him back?

    If the Oilers let Peckham walk and then traded a first round pick to get him back in 2-3 years people on here would snap.

  118. Woodguy says:

    DSF: No one but Kevin Lowe could have got him that contract.

    Anyone with modicum of common sense (1 or 2 people) was cautioning the Oilers not to sign Horcoff when they did.

    If he had been signed a year later, he’s be on a 4 year $4 million deal with no NMC.

    (and still overpaid)

    Agreed.

    My issue is you say Hemsky’s role and production can be replaced, but all the players you bring up could fill his role (tough minute RW) or his production (scorring), but not both.

    Lots of guys can play RW and score.

    Lots of guys can play RW against the toughs.

    Not many play the toughs and outscore.

    Those players are very rare and rarely available. You should never give them up until they are done and Hemsky is far from done (.750pts/gm last 20 games, on pace for 70 games played this year)

    I’m not even sure I trade him for a 1st and Voynov (but I probably do)

  119. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy,

    I doubt that 1st and Voynov would get done now however.

  120. Woodguy says:

    hockeyguy10: Holland let Quincy walk for nothing 3 years ago.And now he is a genius because he gave up a first round pick to get him back?

    If the Oilers let Peckham walk and then traded a first round pick to get him back in 2-3 years people on here would snap.

    No many people admit they make mistakes.

    Vish says he has clarity, but given they want to trade Hemsky, I’m not sure what clarity means.

    Perhaps Steve Smith can help me with the definition.

  121. Woodguy says:

    Professor Q:
    Woodguy,

    I doubt that 1st and Voynov would get done now however.

    From which side?

  122. DSF says:

    Woodguy: No extra body?

    That is firing offense for Howson.

    Terrible.

    Johnson is better than you think he is.

    Big, fast, great shot, PP QB, still learning how to play in his own end.

    Just turned 25 last month.

    Four years younger than Gilbert…a year younger than Smid…10 months older than Petry.

    Howson did fine when you throw in the first round pick.

    Word now is the Kings are shopping Dustin Brown.

    Oh look, he’s a RW who scores, hits, fights and is a leader.

    Hmmmmm….good thing the Oilers have Hemsky. :)

  123. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Agreed.

    My issue is you say Hemsky’s role and productioncan be replaced, but all the players you bring up could fill his role (tough minute RW) or his production (scorring), but not both.

    Lots of guys can play RW and score.

    Lots of guys can play RW against the toughs.

    Not many play the toughs and outscore.

    Those players are very rare and rarely available.You should never give them up until they are done and Hemsky is far from done (.750pts/gm last 20 games, on pace for 70 games played this year)

    I’m not even sure I trade him for a 1st and Voynov (but I probably do)

    How about Dustin Brown…see above.

    Easy peasy.

  124. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy,

    Well both really, unless Edmonton is willing to wait for a 2013 1st round draft pick and LA is willing to give up another defenseman. However, you were being hypothetical.

  125. Captain Obvious says:

    Woodguy: Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    Experts.

    Gregor had a good line today talking about Burnside. “Have I walked into a vortex of stupidity. What is wrong with so-called NHL experts?” Good stuff.

    That Carter deal is terrible. However, it was always likely that the Kings were going to trade Johnson for something good. That’s how you make hay in this world. You take crap that other people think is good and you trade it for something that is actually good. Now I know that Ducey thinks that people within the NHL have some kind of expertise but it seems pretty evident that they don’t. It’s a crazy, crazy, world in which giving Tuomo Ruuttu a 4 year deal worth near $5M a year is a good idea but Ales Hemsky is only worth a mid round draft pick while Jack Johnson and a later part of the first round pick is worth Jeff Carter. It seems pretty clear that the NHL is not a rational market.

  126. eidy says:

    Dustin brown. Yes please. Would provide some grit and can take on the toughs

    Gags-smyth-ebs
    Rnh-hall-brown
    Horc-mps-omark
    Belanger-eager-jones

    That looks like a solid forward group with 2million in savings with brown towards a d man

  127. Captain Obvious says:

    DSF,

    Jack Johnson has negative trade value. Everything you mentioned speaks to potential but he’s being paid as if is already good. There is a reason draftees get entry level contracts. Paying before performance is foolish.

    And the first round pick has pretty marginal value, it certainly isn’t worth someone like Jeff Carter.

  128. eidy says:

    That is assuming hemmer would get over 5 million per season.

    Not sure what it would take to get brown out of la, but I would be calling

  129. Lowetide says:

    It’s the lesson of Jesus Alou. LF with no power, no speed, few walks BUT a decent batting average. His brothers were players so he kept getting chances. Played a long time, won 2 WS at the end. Crazy.

  130. DSF says:

    Captain Obvious:
    DSF,

    Jack Johnson has negative trade value.Everything you mentioned speaks to potential but he’s being paid as if is already good.There is a reason draftees get entry level contracts.Paying before performance is foolish.

    And the first round pick has pretty marginal value, it certainly isn’t worth someone like Jeff Carter.

    Phhhttt…Jeff Carter, because of his contract has negative trade value.

    It’s a trade of need for need.

    LA can’t score and has a shitload of young defensive prospects, Howson needs picks and defensemen.

    Win-win.

    Next Howson will likely move Nash for another first round pick and another roster player.

    He’ll end up with first overall and two other picks in the first round.

    Exactly what Tallon did last season.

    How is that working out?

  131. DSF says:

    eidy:
    That is assuming hemmer would get over 5 million per season.

    Not sure what it would take to get brown out of la, but I would be calling

    I’d be hopping a jet to LAX if I were Tambellini.

    He’s EXACTLY what the Oilers need.

  132. Lowetide says:

    I expect this is Patrick’s doing, he has some experience with building teams via the draft. The 2013 option is an interesting wrinkle.

  133. gogliano says:

    Yah, I’m glad JJ didn’t end up here. The shine has really come off of Howson. I’m not sure how or why he hasn’t been fired yet, Columbus has managed to get itself into an even worse position than when he started.

    Come to think of it he is sort of emulating the Oilers model. #1 draft pick!!!111!!one

  134. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    I expect this is Patrick’s doing, he has some experience with building teams via the draft. The 2013 option is an interesting wrinkle.

    Good call.

  135. DSF says:

    Jeff Angus ‏ @angus_j

    Slava Voynov is the big winner of this deal, as it stands now. Johnson played almost 4 min of PP per game. #kings

  136. DSF says:

    David Staples ‏ @dstaples

    So Howson deals off Carter. Picks up Yakupov. And Nathan MacKinnon and whoever will be first overall picks in 2014 and 2015.

  137. Woodguy says:

    DSF: How about Dustin Brown…see above.

    Easy peasy.

    That’s the first good one you’ve mentioned since this whole debate started.

    I like Brown.

    Outscores toughs and has the edge the Oilers don’t in their top 6.

  138. Traktor says:

    The carter trade wasn’t even that bad for Columbus.

    Howson bought Carter for 10K and then sold him for 7.5K

    He took a chance and it didn’t work so he cut his losses. He might have been able to get a lot more next year but if Carter struggled again next year he might have been stuck with him. Johnson has some warts but he has already scored 40 points in the league and he is still young.

  139. DSF says:

    Woodguy: That’s the first good one you’ve mentioned since this whole debate started.

    I like Brown.

    Outscores toughs and has the edge the Oilers don’t in their top 6.

    And you just said players like that NEVER become available.

    You’re welcome :)

  140. DSF says:

    Traktor:
    The carter trade wasn’t even that bad for Columbus.

    Howson bought Carter for 10K and then sold him for 7.5K

    He took a chance and it didn’t work so he cut his losses. He might have been able to get a lot more next year but if Carter struggled again next year he might have been stuck with him. Johnson has some warts but he has already scored 40 points in the league and he is still young.

    The Oilers have 29 year old Ryan Witney @ $4M,…Howson has 25 year old Jack Johnson @ $4.3M.

    Pretty simple.

  141. Woodguy says:

    DSF:
    David Staples ‏ @dstaples

    So Howson deals off Carter. Picks up Yakupov. And Nathan MacKinnon and whoever will be first overall picks in 2014 and 2015.

    Pretty much

  142. Traktor says:

    Moral of the story:

    If you are going to trade for a guy with 10 years on his contract you better be damn sure he is a fit.

    I think Howson deserves some credit for cutting his losses and moving on. Its not like when Joe Thornton was traded and nobody knew he was available. Tambellini probably would have held onto until his contract expires in fear that Carter might produce as soon as he traded him.

  143. Traktor says:

    DSF: The Oilers have 29 year old Ryan Witney @ $4M,…Howson has 25 year old Jack Johnson @$4.3M.

    Pretty simple.

    Oiler fans are experts on every clubs players except their own
    :)

  144. Woodguy says:

    DSF: The Oilers have 29 year old Ryan Witney @ $4M,…Howson has 25 year old Jack Johnson @$4.3M.

    Pretty simple.

    Oilers have a 29 year old Whitney for 1 more year at $4MM

    CBJ has Johnson at 4.3MM until the summer of 2018.

    One is a year to see if a good player can get healthy.

    The other is a lead weight in a swirling sea.

    I understand letting Dmen develop, but Johnson is 25 and NHL caliber players have at least shown something defensively by now.

    He can score, but he’s Barker without the puck.

  145. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: Oiler fans are experts on every teams’ players except their own

    No, I’m an expert there too.

    Just ask me.

  146. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    Moral of the story:

    If you are going to trade for a guy with 10 years on his contract you better be damn sure he is a fit.

    I think Howson deserves some credit for cutting his losses and moving on. Its not like when Joe Thornton was traded and nobody knew he was available. Tambellini probably would have held onto until his contract expires in fear that Carter might produce as soon as he traded him.

    But he traded for a guy with 6 more years on his contract, and given that he’s traded for him, I’m not sure he knows what he is.

  147. Woodguy says:

    DSF: And you just said players like that NEVER become available.

    You’re welcome

    He’s available?

    What’s the price?

    2 more years at $3.175MM.

    I might do Hemsky straight up.

  148. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Oilers have a 29 year old Whitney for 1 more year at $4MM

    CBJ has Johnson at 4.3MM until the summer of 2018.

    One is a year to see if a good player can get healthy.

    The other is a lead weight in a swirling sea.

    I understand letting Dmen develop, but Johnson is 25 and NHL caliber players have at least shown something defensively by now.

    He can score, but he’s Barker without the puck.

    Yeah, there’s not a chance anyone could trade a player like Jack Johnson if he didn’t work out.

    Oh, wait….

    P.S. He’s much, much, better than Barker…but who isn’t…oh yeah, Corey Potter. :)

    What do you think Tambellini could get for Whitney?

  149. Schitzo says:

    Honestly, I’m surprised that LA gave up as much as they did. They were the only team out of 29 who could feel confident that Carter would be happy to be there, you’d think they’d be able to leverage that.

  150. DSF says:

    Woodguy: He’s available?

    What’s the price?

    2 more years at $3.175MM.

    I might do Hemsky straight up.

    LOL.

    LA is out of the running for Hemsky and other than Hall, Eberle or RNH have nothing of interest to LA.

    I recall suggesting the Oilers should trade Hemsky for Voynov several months ago.

    Oops.

  151. DSF says:

    Schitzo:
    Honestly, I’m surprised that LA gave up as much as they did.They were the only team out of 29 who could feel confident that Carter would be happy to be there, you’d think they’d be able to leverage that.

    Nothing wrong with a win-win.

    Leaves doors open in the future.

  152. Schitzo says:

    DSF: Nothing wrong with a win-win.Leaves doors open in the future.

    True enough, and I guess there’s always the risk that another team gets desperate and takes a gamble on Carter before you grind Columbus down.

  153. Woodguy says:

    DSF: Yeah, there’s not a chance anyone could trade a player like Jack Johnson if he didn’t work out.

    Oh, wait….

    P.S. He’s much, much, better than Barker…but who isn’t…oh yeah, Corey Potter.

    What do you think Tambellini could get for Whitney?

    You’ve lost me.

    I can’t remember saying anyone/contract is untradable since Staios was traded.

  154. Lucinius says:

    You might want to tell TSN that, DSF. According to Mckenzie, the Kings are still looking into another top six forward, such as Hemsky (he was the example given) and it would necessitate Brown moving out due to salary.

  155. pboy says:

    You’d have think the Howson will still be around for next season. Why would they let him trade away the CBJ’s prime assets before the draft, if the ownership planned on having a new GM at the draft? I’d think that the new GM would given the opportunity to move Nash, Carter, Vermette and run the draft table.

    My question is, why wouldn’t they fire Howson?

  156. DSF says:

    Woodguy: The other is a lead weight in a swirling sea.

    Perhaps I misconstrued your hyperbole.

    “The other is a lead weight in a swirling sea.”

  157. Woodguy says:

    Weak , lazy penalty by 10.

  158. Lowetide says:

    pboy:
    You’d have think the Howson will still be around for next season. Why would they let him trade away the CBJ’s prime assets before the draft, if the ownership planned on having a new GM at the draft? I’d think that the new GM would given the opportunity to move Nash, Carter, Vermette and run the draft table.

    My question is, why wouldn’t they fire Howson?

    Lots of reasons. Patrick may have identified someone he’d like for the role and Howson can make the deals with the GMs while he (Patrick) is making the decisions behind the scenes. Patrick’s hiring means something has changed that’s for damn sure.

  159. DSF says:

    Lucinius:
    You might want to tell TSN that, DSF. According to Mckenzie, the Kings are still looking into another top six forward, such as Hemsky (he was the example given) and it would necessitate Brown moving out due to salary.

    I’ve been watching SN so didn’t see that.

    Can’t imagine LA would move Brown for a month of Hemsky unless the Oilers were sending something substantial along with the Hemsky.

    I imagine there would be a lineup of playoff contenders lining up to land Brown.

  160. jake70 says:

    Carolina with a point…6 point spread.

  161. stevezie says:

    I think the best way to look at the Carter deal is Voracek and Couturier for Johnson and a 1st. BJs obviously lose on the picks, but I think Voracek for Johnson is a lot closer. I wouldn’t do it, Johnson’s warts are well documented, but I’ll admit he at least has upside and is young enough to still get much much better.
    So… that’s bad, and you could argue he should have known Carter wouldn’t be a good center for Nash, but on the other hand he played to win and I guess I like that. I don’t know, bought for 10k and sold for 7.5 is not that far off, though Couturier could still turn this into a disaster. Hell, so could Voracek. Or Johnson could save it, I don’t know.

  162. Woodguy says:

    Never said he was untradable.

    I’m a salesman by profession and nature. There is a buyer for many things that are “unsalable”
    , Including dead weight. You just need to find a buyer.

    Wow, Giroux has 1 goal and 7 assists in the last 3 gamed.

    DSF wouldn’t pay him much, bad goal to assist ration.
    :)

  163. DSF says:

    Woodguy:
    Never said he was untradable.

    I’m a salesman by profession and nature.There is a buyer for many things that are “unsalable”
    , Including dead weight. You just need to find a buyer.

    Wow, Giroux has 1 goal and 7 assists in the last 3 gamed.

    DSF wouldn’t pay him much, bad goal to assist ration.

    LOL.

    I’m a salesman by profession and nature too.

    There is indeed a bum for every seat.

    Even Gomez , Horcoff and Hemsky.

    We’ll see how good a salesman Tambellini is by Monday, although I think we already know the answer.

  164. pboy says:

    That’s such a bullshit, arbitrary penalty.

  165. Woodguy says:

    Schitzo:
    Honestly, I’m surprised that LA gave up as much as they did.They were the only team out of 29 who could feel confident that Carter would be happy to be there, you’d think they’d be able to leverage that.

    They got rid of the worst contract on the club, upgraded their F in a big way and it only cost them $1.1M/yr on the cap and a middling first in a mediocre draft. Lombardi killed it.

    He upgraded his D now that Voynov has a spot and Johnson doesn’t.

    This is a win-win for LA and a franchise killer for CBJ.

    Howson gave up Couterier and Voracheck for a 2nd pairing Dman, who get beat worse than any other LA Dman, with a big contract and a middling 1st.

    Mind numbing.

    Franchise destroying.

    I expect Howson to offer expert opinion on Sportsnet soon.

  166. Woodguy says:

    The Oilers were much better on Saddledome ice.

    This Northlands ice is just shit.

    FIrst pass bouncing everywhere.

  167. Woodguy says:

    4 and 83 most dangerous Oilers that period by far.

    HUMANGOUS BIG’s glove seems to be made of rubber.

    Made a nice save on 83 though. Great play by 4 to anticipate and intercept a pass, then see 83 going for the net.

  168. PerryK says:

    Look at that developing chemistry between 4 and 83!

  169. Lowetide says:

    I really like to see the Oilers play defense and they did okay that period. Not great, there was a lazy backcheck by Horcoff that resulted in a penalty and 94 turned the puck over again in his own end (isn’t it funny how that happens with rookies and older guys who have lost a step) and the puck wasn’t tape to tape.

    But they stayed in their lanes and had support. The Belanger line is a train wreck but that’s been all year.

  170. Lucinius says:

    Well, win streak at home for Detroit broken.. largely by a bad icing call by the refs (smart, smart play by Salo though to skate slowly but put a lot of effort into looking like he was trying).

    Saw about a dozen non-calls in the third alone in that game, split fairly evenly between the teams.

    Now I can concentrate fully on the Oilers, though.

  171. DSF says:

    Woodguy:

    Wow, Giroux has 1 goal and 7 assists in the last 3 gamed.

    DSF wouldn’t pay him much, bad goal to assist ration.

    Wow Giroux has seasons of 16, 25, 23 and on pace for 34 goals.

    I think I’ll keep him.

  172. Woodguy says:

    Wow, Marc Spector said nice things about Hemksy and just called him an offensive lynchpin.

    The change in narrative on dime in this town is dizzying.

  173. Woodguy says:

    Ales Hesmky is a bad, bad man.

    Ahh, good ol Rexall ice, bouncing 2 minutes in save a GA.

  174. pboy says:

    Atta boy!

  175. Woodguy says:

    That was an amazing power play.

  176. DSF says:

    Eberle is a sublime hockey player.

  177. NOTB says:

    The kids are alright! Taylor Hall is a BEAST. Nice to see Kruger getting him extra ice time.

    Conversation during the first period with my 7 year old son after a flash of Hemsky magic:

    Me: Looks like the Oilers will be trading Hemsky by Monday.

    Son (looking at Dad puzzled): Why do the Oilers want to trade Hemsky? Why don’t Oilers trade Barker instead?

    Me: Would you take Barker on a trade to your team?

    Son (after slight pause): He could probably play on my Novice team.

    Naturally, that bought him a curfew extension to stay up and watch some of the second period.

  178. Woodguy says:

    These kids are good.

  179. Lucinius says:

    Petry doesn’t fall as gracefully as Barker.

    He does, however, stay with the play better.

  180. Traktor says:

    Hemsky is showing off for Jagr.

  181. jake70 says:

    Great recovery by Petry. Gotta love Eberle, shoot first, ask questions later.

  182. wordbird says:

    “Why you heff to beat me 5-hole?”

  183. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Can’t wait until realignment sees the Oilers playing the eastern conf more often. They just don’t play as tight of team D in the East which favours the smaller Oiler forwards

    Fun game to watch – odd man rushes both ways.

    Oilers seem to be a bit more man to man in their own end last couple games. – less guys in no mans land.

  184. wordbird says:

    I hope ST is actually watching Hemsky this period. Although he’s probably back at the Oilers’ office watering the plants.

  185. mattwatt says:

    This game is being played fast, and the other guys are still having problems keeping up to Hemsky.

    I hope he calls Tambellini tonight and says “trade me right fu*@ing now” then hangs up the phone.

    For comedic sake.

  186. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Simmonds is an intersting character

  187. Lucinius says:

    I always find it interesting to watch Western teams against Eastern teams and how generally the Western teams look like much better teams than when they play within the West.

  188. DSF says:

    Woodguy:
    Wow, Marc Spector said nice things about Hemksy and just called him an offensive lynchpin.

    The change in narrative on dime in this town is dizzying.

    Michael Ryder has 24 goals and 20 assists.

    He’s a RW who plays the toughs.

    $3.5M cap hit for one more year.

    Apparently he is being shopped.

  189. Woodguy says:

    Every time the puck hits the new vinyl stickers on the stanchion the puck rebounds in weird ways.

    The Oilers deny they changed the stanchions, just added the vinyl.

    Apparently they don’t believe in friction.

    Also,

    How does the linesman think PHI touched that puck and it went the opposite way his stick was moving?

    Terrible.

  190. fuzzy muppet says:

    Enjoy your suspension Hartnell you fucking dick

  191. Lucinius says:

    Fucking Hartnell.

  192. fuzzy muppet says:

    How is that not a 5 and a misconduct?? These officials are awful

  193. pboy says:

    That better be a fucking suspension. I’d like to see Eager and Hordichuk make a few stupid plays after this PP.

  194. TheOtherJohn says:

    wordbird:
    I hope ST is actually watching Hemsky this period. Although he’s probably back at the Oilers’ office watering the plants.

    Steve T is actually back at office contemplating what chemicals to mix to use in watering the plants. Should be ready to go 2013/14

  195. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Time for Eager or Hordi to earn their paycheque. They should wait right by the penalty box to great Hartnel after his 2min is up.

  196. Lucinius says:

    Just when Paajarvi was getting his game going too, god damn it.

  197. Woodguy says:

    Jesus, how is Hartnell not tossed from the game.

    Not a good injury for a young man who makes his living by skating fast.

    Looks like Omark should be up for Saturday.

  198. bookje says:

    My god that’s an exciting power play!

  199. crude says:

    I remember Hemksy getting kicked out for a way less blatant knee on Burns. That was a horseshit, retaliatory move by Hartnell.

  200. Professor Q says:

    Oh my what did Hartnell do then?

Newer Comments »

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca