Rob Nelson

On Tuesday, April 4, 1987, Rob Nelson was the opening day starter at first base for the A’s. He played 7 games before getting sent out and by that September was in San Diego. What the hell happened to Rob Nelson’s career in Oakland? Just about the same thing that happened to Linus Omark in Edmonton.

The Edmonton Oilers often talk about “3 scoring lines” but they clearly have no plans to follow through. The Oilers selection process under Tom Renney suggests they think of a 3rd scoring line the way the rest of us think about funeral pre-planning or booking passage to a Turkish prison. It is not, despite miles of verbal that’s been written, a priority for the organization.

The Oilers are old school. They voted against the designated hitter, remember the 80s Oilers as the “team Dave Hunter put over the top” and secretly despise the forward pass.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

It means Omark is going to have to move his Linus down the road in order to have an NHL career. The Oilers have 5 of their top 6 ready to roll in the fall: Hallmark, Crossing Jordan, The Nuge, Samwise and Hemmer.

  • No, they’re going to call him up soon? REALLY? REALLY? Who cares? The Oilers–if they were serious about Omark as part of their future–would have called him up shortly after he returned to the OKC lineup. He’s been back since February 9th.
  • Maybe they’re waiting? For what? In 10 games since his return, Omark is 4-4-8 +1. It’s obvious they are looking for a sixth forward to play with the skilled guys and all Omark hears are crickets.
  • Maybe they’ll lose him to waivers on recall? I don’t think so.
  • Well if they call him up and he plays a few games, then they can’t send him back down. GOOD!
  • I bet they call him up today after the game. I honestly can’t see any reason to keep Omark on the farm. Bring him up, showcase him in the top 6 and see what he can do. If he plays well, the Oilers might have solved a problem before summer in regard to the top 6F.
  • OR, maybe they can ice three scoring lines next year? Don’t make me come over there.

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114 Responses to "Rob Nelson"

  1. godot10 says:

    Hopefully, the Oilers bring up Omark after the AHL clear day “nonsense” gets settled tomorrow.

    A good off-season.

    New coach. Draft Murray, Sign UFA Wideman.

  2. DSF says:

    Curious to hear who Omark’s line mates might be on a third scoring line?

  3. godot10 says:

    DSF,

    Paajarvi and Horcoff, both who are strong defensively.

  4. spoiler says:

    I’ve already made my stance clear on the remainder of the season: I would hold an open casting call bigger than the search for Scarlett O’Hara. A Santa Claus parade full of auditions. Rookie madness.

    Omark would be up, Danis would get a couple of starts. Guys like Hartikainen, Pitlick, Plante would be getting look-sees.

    Peckham would be playing, for puck’s sakes.

    What are they still actually trying to win games?

  5. DSF says:

    godot10:
    DSF,

    Paajarvi and Horcoff, both who are strong defensively.

    Not sure how you could call a line that includes two players with a combined 13 goals and 38 points in 110 GP a “scoring line”.

    Perhaps Omark might help drive results a bit more but I don’t think many opponents would be quaking in their boots facing that group.

  6. godot10 says:

    spoiler,

    Only 4 non-emergency recalls allowed from the AHL post trade deadline. Open casting call not possible.

    They also need to calm things down a bit AHL roster wise so Nelson can get the team ready for the playoffs. So they need to be tactical.

    Omark, definitely, but what the Oilers can do is limited by the limited number of roster call ups post deadline.

  7. godot10 says:

    DSF,

    Paajarvi had 15 goals in his rookie season, most of them with Gagner and Omark.

    Paajarvi has trouble figuring his way over the wall by himself. When he plays with Omark, he just follows Omark over the wall to the killing zone. Omark doesn’t have any trouble finding the war.

  8. cabbiesmacker says:

    Maybe one of the benefits of improving the AHL end of things and them performing well to date will be the promotion of their coach to the bigs. Then we’lll have someone behind the bench that “knows” exactly what kind of help is available for callup.

    “Todd” Nelson has paid his dues in the minors and had a stint as an assistant in the bigs. He’s certainly more qualified than Buchberger / Smith as an A coach and maybe even ready for a main role. I like the idea of a young coach and new ideas with the kids too.

  9. spoiler says:

    Godot… Well that bites. That would have put some use into the final stretch of games.

    I’d still use all 4 though.

  10. DSF says:

    godot10:
    DSF,

    Paajarvi had 15 goals in his rookie season, most of them with Gagner and Omark.

    Paajarvi has trouble figuring his way over the wall by himself.When he plays with Omark, he just follows Omark over the wall to the killing zone.Omark doesn’t have any trouble finding the war.

    In Paajarvi’s 15 goal season, Paajarvi, Omark and Horcoff scored a total of 20 even strength goals.

    Omark might bring a little magic to the party but I certainly wouldn’t bet a whole lot on it.

  11. cabbiesmacker says:

    Godot

    You do realize that unless you can suggest a third line at least on par with Vancouver’s that you aren’t going to get any positive acknowledgement right?

    We will now require the equivalentr to Zack Kassian to be decent.

  12. cabbiesmacker says:

    DSF: In Paajarvi’s 15 goal season, Paajarvi, Omark and Horcoff scored a total of 20 even strength goals.
    Omark might bring a little magic to the party but I certainly wouldn’t bet a whole lot on it.

    Sub Grigorenko for Horcoff?

  13. DSF says:

    cabbiesmacker:
    Godot

    You do realize that unless you can suggest a third line at least on par with Vancouver’s that you aren’t going to get any positive acknowledgement right?

    We will now require the equivalentr to Zack Kassian to be decent.

    Based on his first couple of games, I expect Kassian will end up on the second line with Kesler.

    1G 1A 3 shots and 7 hits last night.

    Very small sample size though.

  14. DSF says:

    cabbiesmacker: Sub Grigorenko for Horcoff?

    Gagner on the second line ahead of Grigorenko?

    Might work.

  15. Captain Obvious says:

    godot10:
    Hopefully, the Oilers bring up Omark after the AHL clear day “nonsense” gets settled tomorrow.

    A good off-season.

    New coach. Draft Murray,Sign UFA Wideman.

    The top three FA defensemen are pretty clearly Suter–big gap–and then Garrison and Carle. Wideman is in a third group of middling guys who are right around the middle of the pack in terms of quality. These middling guys are all only marginal top $ guys. They would be an improvement for the Oilers but they are background contributors who help mainly by keeping the Teubert’s and Peckham’s of the world. The Oilers need to set their sights higher than that.

    If I’m running the show I’m trying to trade the first round pick for a top young D. The most likely, based upon team needs, seems to be Ekman-Larson. It would take more than the pick but if it costs #2 or #3 overall + Lander it would be worth it. Or even, pick + Lander + Omark.

    Suter is out of reach but I’d take a crack anyway. Carle and Garrison are more realistic. I’d pay what it takes (within some kind of reason).

    Add those two players and this team is a contender in one season. The young stars have developed quickly and the cap space is there. There is no reason to wait any longer. This is the summer to strike. This team could be a dominant team as early as next year. In fact, considering how barren the farm system is, it needs to be a dominant team next year or it may never will be. The window is now.

  16. Captain Obvious says:

    Oh yeah, and a second round offer sheet for Schneider. The Canucks are almost capped out and may not be able to match unless they can trade Luongo (which seems far fetched to me).

  17. Gerta Rauss says:

    Captain Obvious,

    Agree completely.

    Wideman would fit nicely on the Oilers but I think somebody is going to overpay for him on July 1.

    I’m shopping the 1st round pick as well-I hope we do win the lottery so it’s 1 overall-package Yakupov with a couple of prospects and get our 1D.

    You’re right-there is no reason to wait any longer.

  18. godot10 says:

    Captain Obvious,

    If Scheider is offer-sheeted, Vancouver will match and trade Luongo to Tampa or somebody, particularly if the Canucks don’t win the Cup. Luongo might be headed to Tampa in a trade regardless.

    Nothing wrong with offer-sheeting Schneider, but you aren’t going to get him.

  19. DSF says:

    godot10:
    Captain Obvious,

    If Scheider is offer-sheeted, Vancouver will match and trade Luongo to Tampa or somebody, particularly if the Canucks don’t win the Cup.Luongo might be headed to Tampa in a trade regardless.

    Nothing wrong with offer-sheeting Schneider, but you aren’t going to get him.

    Actually, Mason Raymond is an RFA at the end of the season.

    I can’t see him as a Canuck going forward so, if Gillis give Raymond’s money to Schneider, he’d be making $3.4M without any need to move Luongo.

  20. Bar_Qu says:

    Captain Obvious,

    Considering how bare the farm system is? I am not seeing what you are seeing.

    And as long as Renney is coach, things will not make sense with the big club. Kruger already showed himself to be a more adept coach and I would happily see him handle the final few games.

  21. DeadmanWaking says:

    Here’s the problem: Omark helps us beat Chicago, but does nothing to help us beat Dallas. How do we convince all the visiting teams to play rodeo? Susie prefers to play house.

    Susie: I was going to ask you to play House, but I think you’d be a weird example for our children.

    [Calvin, who has the chicken pox, calls Susie on the telephone.]
    Susie: Hello?
    Calvin: Hi, Susie! It’s me, Calvin! I was wondering if you’d like to come over and play.
    Susie: Why, sure! Boy, I don’t think you’ve ever invited me to…
    Calvin’s Mom: Calvin, what are you doing?
    Calvin: Nothing, Mom. Go away.

    Adult Calvin: I AM NOT! As a matter of fact, I’m not your husband at all! [begins taking off his clothes]
    Adult Susie: What are you doing?! Stop being such a little weirdo!
    Adult Calvin: Me WONGA-TAA! King of Jungle!
    Adult Susie: Oh, nice underpants! You’re really gross.

    Calvin’s Mom: [on phone] What do you mean Calvin left his clothes with Susie??

    That’s as close to rodeo as he ever got.

  22. spoiler says:

    The 3-scoring-lines objective would be solved if there was a true triggerman for the 3rd line and a widebody who can skate and play hockey for the 2nd line.

    HALL GAGN HEMS
    XXXX NUGE EBER
    SMYT HORC XXXX

    That’s what we would need if we’re running 3 next year. Magnum does some nice things, but he’s not going to give a physical presence to the 2nd line or sniping for the 3rd. He’s better off used with a scoring centre, and a physical presence on the opposite wing.

    Omark might be able to do it at 3RW. He shows more willingness to shoot than MPS, and I’d give him a try, but I think the issue is his lack of compete in his won zone (not his scoring) and while that line is playing the toughs, Omark might bleed like a hemophiliac in a warm bath.

    I suppose Smyth could be moved up to 2LW, and that’s that way I’d probably run the lines right now, but it’s not an ideal long-term solution given his size and age.

  23. Lowetide says:

    Well, I always did like Susie.

  24. Captain Obvious says:

    godot10,

    Luongo’s contract is awful. I can’t imagine why Tampa, or anyone else, would trade for it? However, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. That isn’t a reason not to offer sheet Schneider.

    DSF,

    Even if the Canucks let Raymond go they aren’t going to pay Schneider $3 M plus to back up Luongo. So they either have to trade Luongo which should be impossible (see above) or they have to trade Schneider before the offer sheet comes in. In either case the plausibility of the offer sheet will be determined in June. If July comes and Luongo and Schneider are both still on the Canucks then Gillis has been checkmated and the offer sheet plan will work.

    Bar_Qu,

    The Barons offer almost nothing to the Oilers right now. Only Paajarvi, Lander, and Omark have a reasonable chance of being good NHL players and they are all de facto members of the roster right now. After them there are no forwards of consequence and the D of consequence are all still in junior. The Oilers have good young players but those players are NHL ready now. There is nothing to wait for because there is nothing coming up the pipe.

    If the Oilers aren’t good next year there is a good chance they will never be good.

  25. stevezie says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    i think you’re selling Omark short. I sure can’t claim to have scouted him much this season, but one of the things I like the most about him is his hard forechecking. This is not some floater Euro-cliche, the goes and gets pucks. He might be exactly what we need to beat Dallas.

    DSF,

    91-10-23 is not an intimidating scoring line, but it’s better than that same line with Jones or Eager, isn’t it?

    finally,

    Lowetide,

    My guess is they wanted to give the Swede line a few games, just to see what happens. It makes as much sense as anything else- I wilill say I’m glad they didn’t call him up as soon as he recovered, if the injury was still slowing him down at all it would have been an excuse to write him off.

    On another note, why is no one talk about Tuuka Rask? He’s better than Schneider and also an RFA. Boston doesn’t have the cap issues that Vancouver does. and they only have one more year of Thomas instead of ten of Luogo, but I think he’s still worth exploring, no?

  26. Captain Obvious says:

    stevezie,

    The Bruins are going to trade Thomas in the offseason. And, unlike Luongo, he probably has a lot of trade value.

  27. Bar_Qu says:

    Captain Obvious,

    I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about what the farm had to offer next year and the year after, since you had started talking about the future. For next season you have a few good young players who can contribute in a limited role, a la injury call-up, and a couple who can play a two way game on 2-4 lines (Omark, PRV, Harski, Lander). Plus a lot of good young D who should play in the 8-10 role on defense next year (Marincin, Musil, Klefbom).

    But yes, you are right, there is no magic bullet for this year.

  28. spoiler says:

    Chiarelli is on record several times that Thomas will retire a Bruin.

    Doesn’t mean it’s true, but I believe him.

  29. VOR says:

    Spoiler,

    We could probably make two reasonably affordable trades and fill your empty roster spots with over pays whose offence has deteriorated but who are capable of playing the toughs.

    Hall Gagner Hemsky
    Frolik RNH Eberle
    Smyth Horcoff Ward

  30. Captain Obvious says:

    Bar_Qu,

    No, you understood me right the first time. I had forgotten about Hartikainen but I stand by my point. Omark is likely gone in the summer and Paajarvi and Lander have been basically roster players all year. They aren’t coming help. Pitlick and Hamilton can’t score and hence are nothing. Teubert, Plante, and Chorney are worse than nothing. The youngD guys might be something in 2-3 years but by then it will be too late.

    If the Oilers wait for help to come through the system they are going to be waiting a long time. There aren’t any impact players left in the system.

  31. spoiler says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Captain Obvious,

    I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about what the farm had to offer next year and the year after, since you had started talking about the future. For next season you have a few good young players who can contribute in a limited role, a la injury call-up, and a couple who can play a two way game on 2-4 lines (Omark, PRV, Harski, Lander). Plus a lot of good young D who should play in the 8-10 role on defense next year (Marincin, Musil, Klefbom).

    But yes, you are right, there is no magic bullet for this year.

    I’m quite curious to see what the D looks like in the A next year.

    There’s gonna be a helluva logjam of defensemen headed to pro. I suspect LT has a future post up his sleeve about it.

    Klefbom, Teubert, Marincin, Fedun, Blain, Davidson, possibly Bigos might all be looking for roster spots. In a move that will be real unpopular round these parts, Musil might get left in Junior, since he can be. Gernat even more likely. A decision will need to be made on Plante. A couple of guys will start in the E.

    If they draft a Dman first, I think there’s a reasonable chance he stays in Junior.

    It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

  32. stevezie says:

    spoiler,

    If I’m Chiarelli and Thomas tells me this next year is his last, I can find a way to overpay my goalie tandem for one year. If he has plans on keeping Thomas beyond this next season, however, then he pretty much has to trade Rask, doesn’t he? Possibly to a non-division team…
    I’m not sure how much I’d give for a goalie; I think Willis makes a good argument that cheap vetern goalies is the way to go, but I’d definitely look into it.
    Or, like CO says, he could trade Thomas, which is probably the smart move, but for the sake of argument I’m with you in assuming Chiarelli meant what he said about Thomas retiring a Bruin.

  33. spoiler says:

    VOR:
    Spoiler,

    We could probably make two reasonably affordable trades and fill your empty roster spots with over pays whose offence has deteriorated but who are capable of playing the toughs.

    Hall Gagner Hemsky
    Frolik RNH Eberle
    Smyth Horcoff Ward

    Yeah vor, agreed, and there’s multiple solutions.

    The Oil seem determined to do it by the draft though. A killer is not drafting Dmen Gagner’s year and the year after. We’d be much farther ahead than we are right now.

    They are going to bend over and spread for either Suter or Weber this off-season, depending on Nashville’s moves.

  34. Woodguy says:

    I hope they do go to 3 scoring lines.

    As long as Renney is coach, I don’t think they will.

    I agree they need size to help beat the Dallas’ of the world when penalties aren’t being called.

    Unfortunately, this management group will probably trade a Jack for a 9 with size. (See Gilbert trade for information about trading Jacks for 9′s)

    This is a timely post LT, Jon Willis has a a post up at Cult of Hockey about the 09/10 Potulny Oilers outscoring the 11/12 Hall/Eberle/RNH/Gagner Oilers in terms of 5v5 scoring.

    Its a good read. Eye opening.

    Omark will have a NHL career. I’d set the line at +220 that its with the Oilers.

    At the end of Willis’ post its hard not to see how good a coach MacT was and how poor Renney is.

    It was MacT’s time to go, but its a damn shame they haven’t found a replacement yet.

  35. Lowetide says:

    I’d love to see MacT back.

  36. Bar_Qu says:

    spoiler,

    Well, they have basically said Plante is gone (with the addition of Teubert and then Schultz), I don’t know that Fedun will be ready to start in the AHL, and I doubt Bigos will either, so they both go to the ECHL, leaving Klerbom, Teubert, Marincin, Blain and Davidson to push for a space with OKC. It is nice to see a good deal of D depth, and all of it legitimate (I think we will see the last of Chorney and Helmer too).

  37. rich says:

    Only way Omark is on the Oiler roster next year is if Renney is not behind the bench. Omark got himself in the coaches doghouse at the start of this season and never got out.

    Before we talk abouit a 3rd scoring line, right now we need another winger for our 2nd scoring line. Smyth has all the try but his legs have too many miles on them at this point in the season to do it night in/night out and so we get Petrell on the line. Yes while the Corsi numbers looked good for 2 periods the other night, there was no finish (as opposed to Finnish) with that trio.

    Bringing MPS up and putting him on the that line might help too, but Renney has something against Swedes this season (maybe they wrote something on the coaches board between sessions and Lander was forced to translate it).

    I long for the days of MacT and his blender and line matching skills. There was rationale to it (up until his final season when he was orderd to make chicken salad out of chicken-you-know what) and it got to him with some strange combo’s. I fully expect Renney to be back though and I just don’t see him able to produce the results.

  38. steveb12344 says:

    Captain Obvious,

    I’m not sure how you can conclude this.

    Sure there isn’t much in the way of top 6 forwards or stud defencemen immediately available in the system.

    I think the top 6 forwards are pretty much set for a number of years to come, so the lesser prospects on the farm may or may not slot in the bottom 6 at some point. doesn’t matter really.

    On D We have enough stud prospects that soon the biggest problem is going to be what to do with them all.

    IMO the team is being put together for the long term, and is now only scratching the surface of what they can potentially become for many years to come.

  39. Henry says:

    Lowetide,

    MacT would be a good coach for this team probably a better GM though. However I miss Huddy the most.

  40. Henry says:

    Woodguy:
    I hope they do go to 3 scoring lines.

    As long as Renney is coach, I don’t think they will.

    I agree they need size to help beat the Dallas’ of the world when penalties aren’t being called.

    Unfortunately, this management group will probably trade a Jack for a 9 with size. (See Gilbert trade for information about trading Jacks for 9′s)

    This is a timely post LT, Jon Willis has a a post up at Cult of Hockey about the 09/10 Potulny Oilers outscoring the 11/12 Hall/Eberle/RNH/Gagner Oilers in terms of 5v5 scoring.

    Its a good read. Eye opening.

    Omark will have a NHL career.I’d set the line at +220 that its with the Oilers.

    At the end of Willis’ post its hard not to see how good a coach MacT was and how poor Renney is.

    It was MacT’s time to go, but its a damn shame they haven’t found a replacement yet.

    The late 90′s Calgary Flames managed to lose and give up on Marc Savard and Marty St. Louis early.

    The Edmonton Oilers look like they will lose Omark for very little return because they gave him no opportunity to be valuable to this team or the league.

  41. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide:
    I’d love to see MacT back.

    Who’d be our “Toby Petersen” though? Jones? Or do we have enough to get Petersen via trade.

    NYET to Groundhog Day. This team should have done enough recycling to know the 80′s are history.

  42. gogliano says:

    Are there many examples of coaches returning after being fired? I’m sure there must be but I can’t think of any off the top of my head. I assume we aren’t thinking MacT will actually come back as HC, more curious than anything.

  43. Henry says:

    I feel a just a little bad getting into a lather about the Oilers’ management. I sort of promised I wouldn’t slag them after Hemsky was signed, but thinking of their Swede handling leads to bafflement.

    Properly done, Lander would be with the big club right now AFTER having spent 55 games with OKC to get his NA game and confidence together. Omark should have been here all year, then an informed decision made on trade or keep at the deadline. It seems like the nice record in Oct 11 led a serious case of HUA.

  44. rich says:

    I don’t think we have to worry about MacT coming back because he never coached in Vancouver. v3.5 will probably go out and hire Marc Crawford next, or maybe Mike Keenan. Any other ex-Van coaches out there he’s missed?

  45. Henry says:

    cabbiesmacker: Who’d be our “Toby Petersen” though? Jones? Or do we have enough to get Petersen via trade.

    NYET to Groundhog Day. This team should have done enough recycling to know the 80′s are history.

    Petrell would play the left point on the powerplay.

  46. Lowetide says:

    Very rare for coaches to return, usually things like Lou in NJ playing a hunch on Lemaire, etc.

  47. DBO says:

    What did people think of the Vancouver Buffalo deal.Trading a young centre with offensive upside, but who was blocked on the roster, for a piece they feel they lacked (winger with size and skill). Our issue is the imbalance on the roster (as LT has pointed out 65,487 times – rightly so). So with that in mind, shouldn’t we be more inclined to accept giving up some younger players for similar younger players who better fit what we are missing.

    I think the Org is enamored of the idea of a power forward with skill, and a gritty two way player. However so is everyone else. Add one better dman (a Gilbert type, lol. hurts still), and a better goalie, along with the development of the kids and we’ll be fine.

    Hall-Gagner-Hemsky (PVP)
    Harksy?-Nuge-Eberle (Ozone starts, will kill the weak parade)
    Smyth-Horcoff-MPS (play other best line, dzone starts)
    Eager-Belanger-Jones (dzone start, should be ok. not great, but OK)

    That forward lineup is good enough to compete. Harsky adds size to play with the small skilled lads, the Horcoff line should be able to play against anyone, and outscore a bunch especially with MPS and his speed causing havoc the other way. And the 4th line is solid. Renney can run them out there with anyone, and without Lander or Petrell they should do well and eat up some of the other 4th they play.

    Lander and Omark become trade bait (although I would hope Lander stays and takes over for Belanger/Hrocoff in next 2 yrs)

  48. Stephen says:

    Lowetide:
    Very rare for coaches to return, usually things like Lou in NJ playing a hunch on Lemaire, etc.

    Paul Maurice in Carolina is the only example I can think of.

  49. sliderule says:

    Omark wrote his own obituary.Bad attitude, not that much offense and no defense.

    If you are going to show up the coaches like Omark did you have to be way way better than him.

    All you advanced stats guys can rant and rave but that’s the way it is.

  50. stevezie says:

    sliderule,

    Dispute the not much offence claim. He scored fine for a rookie and has consistantly performed at the minor league level.
    Did he do something to show up the coaches that I am forgetting since complaining about being sent down? It was a bad move politically, but surely we’ve moved beyond that by now?

    You might be right, but I hope you’re wrong. Can I just remind everyone that we’re playing Darcy Hordichuk right now? That’s essentially an open roster spot. if PRV and Lander are down there to learn, then Omark must either be down to teach or to suffer. Or to qualify for AHL playoffs, I don’t know.

  51. Captain Obvious says:

    DBO,

    DBO,

    I loved the Canucks move. I think Kassian is a better player than Hodgson plus they got a good offensive defenseman in the deal. Makes them better in the short and long term.

  52. Captain Obvious says:

    sliderule:
    Omark wrote his own obituary.Bad attitude, not that much offenseand no defense.

    If you are going to show up the coaches like Omark did you have to be way way better than him.

    All you advanced stats guys can rant and rave but that’s the way it is.

    sliderule:
    Omark wrote his own obituary.Bad attitude, not that much offenseand no defense.

    If you are going to show up the coaches like Omark did you have to be way way better than him.

    All you advanced stats guys can rant and rave but that’s the way it is.

    I can’t imagine what you are referring to. It better not involve anything about a shootout. Tenney has made a lot of mistakes but I hate to think he is a moral imbecile as well.

  53. Bar_Qu says:

    sliderule:
    Omark wrote his own obituary.Bad attitude, not that much offenseand no defense.

    If you are going to show up the coaches like Omark did you have to be way way better than him.

    All you advanced stats guys can rant and rave but that’s the way it is.

    Whereas you no stats guys can make up whatever you like and pretend it ends the argument. Nice line though. Keep it up and you might be in line for a media position with the Oilers.

  54. Thinker says:

    Oilerfans have been spoiled offensively. We have forgotten what a forward corps looks like. We have 4 first liners(hall, rnh,eberle), and a potential first liner in gagner. Few if any teams have the quantity of possible ppg players as we do. Smyth played first line in la. Belanger, and horkoff are second liners on most teams. Jones has been a potential second liner.Eager and hordichunk dont count as they are knuckle draggers. Our fourth line isn’t great, but none are. Some players have stuggled, but we still have a strong fwd corps. At the same time we look at our defence as being below average, when its actually horrendous. Until smid is playing #4 or lower, we will continue to get curbed stomped. The shitty goaltending doesn’t help either. Its hard for the guys playing the toughs to score when our defence and goaltending is garbage. Put a defence together, and i guarantee you will be surprised by how much secondary scoring we get from horkoff, belanger, hemsky, ect.

    While im ranting, we still have a good pipeline. Expecting a plethora of top 6 options when all our first tounders are in the nhl is risiculous. Pitlick and hamilton(hell even martindale) were ppg players in junior who were drafted to play 3 line. Dont whine about their low offence in their first year of pro. Their nhle is around 15 points and 8ish goals playing few minutes. Give them a modest increase to 25 in the next two years and you have a good player. The secondary defence prospects are coming, but so are the bottom tier fwds and goalies(roy and bunz). We need one or two top d, and a top 20 goalie at least.

    If im the oilers on draft day I take BPA. Preferably its a defence but another fwd that represents an upgrade will open room for a trade. I would tey to trade up to get vasilevski also (he looks like a stud). Draft BPA the rest of the way.

    In FA i look for penner(he would add some nice size to the top 9, and further saturate the fwd talent), a goalie (probably vokoun), and an elite defenceman if he can be had resonably. Then i look for another decent defenceman to play in the top 4 (shults calibre).

  55. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    Omark wrote his own obituary.Bad attitude, not that much offenseand no defense.

    If you are going to show up the coaches like Omark did you have to be way way better than him.

    All you advanced stats guys can rant and rave but that’s the way it is.

    Any evidence for your claim?

    Also,

    I have no problem trading from depth to address need. I’m just not holding my breath that this managemnt group won’t make a mistake.

    They take a long time historically to address need too.

  56. pboy says:

    DSF: Actually, Mason Raymond is an RFA at the end of the season.

    I can’t see him as a Canuck going forward so, if Gillis give Raymond’s money to Schneider, he’d be making $3.4M without any need to move Luongo.

    You’re taking for granted that Schneider wants to stay a back-up. Even though he’s on the best team in the NHL, he’s still not going to play in the playoffs or be the #1 unless Luongo is traded and that’s much easier said than done. How long can Schneider realistically be expected to “wait for his turn”?

  57. DSF says:

    Woodguy,

    DB – 2G 2A
    AH – 0G 2A

  58. pboy says:

    Stephen: Paul Maurice in Carolina is the only example I can think of.

    Cito Gaston in Toronto, Billy Martin for the NYY and I think Punch Impach in Toronto as well. It’s happened before but not very often.

  59. DSF says:

    pboy: You’re taking for granted that Schneider wants to stay a back-up. Even though he’s on the best team in the NHL, he’s still not going to play in the playoffs or be the #1 unless Luongo is traded and that’s much easier said than done. How long can Schneider realistically be expected to “wait for his turn”?

    In theory, until he is a UFA although I doubt Gillis would do that.

    I think, as someone pointed out earlier, a lot depends on what happens in the playoffs this season but, even more importantly, if there is a contract amnesty in the next CBA.

    In any event, the idea of throwing an offer sheet at him won’t fly. Gillis is too smart to let that happen.

  60. Ripoux says:

    Right on cue, Omark with the only goal so far for OKC, down 3-1 in the third.

  61. sliderule says:

    @woodguy

    Offense I go by your numbers and he wasn’t that good.

    Defense I go by my eyes ,lost puck battles ,no back check couldn’t chip it out.

    Attitude I go by reports of when he was sent down

  62. Woodguy says:

    Watch CAL vs. DAL.

    Glencross got in a fight with Ott.

    Wish a player like Glencross wanted to play for the Oilers.

  63. stevezie says:

    Ripoux,

    Assists?

  64. whale says:

    DSF: In theory, until he is a UFA although I doubt Gillis would do that.

    I think, as someone pointed out earlier, a lot depends on what happens in the playoffs this season but, even more importantly, if there is a contract amnesty in the next CBA.

    In any event, the idea of throwing an offer sheet at him won’t fly. Gillis is too smart to let that happen.

    They won’t do an amnesty on Luongo. Cost too much.

  65. DSF says:

    whale: They won’t do an amnesty onLuongo. Cost too much.

    Could be.

    Depends on the terms since they could change in the new CBA.

  66. copperblueandwhite says:

    Woodguy:

    Any evidence for your claim?

    Actually Woodguy,I think the Tampa Bay spinarama hot dog shoot out goal left a bad taste in a few guys mouths.. just too corny

  67. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    @woodguy

    Offense I go by your numbers and he wasn’t that good.

    Defense I go by my eyes ,lost puck battles ,no back check couldn’t chip it out.

    Attitude I go by reports of when he was sent down

    Can you quote those reports and provide links to them?

    Are you talking about this year or last year?

  68. DSF says:

    stevezie,

    copperblueandwhite: ActuallyWoodguy,I think the Tampa Bay spinarama hot dog shoot out goal left a bad taste in a few guys mouths.. just too corny

    Paajaarvi and CVV.

    Now losing 3-1

  69. godot10 says:

    Schneider is one year from UFA status right? 27 on March 18, 2013. Is this right?

    Thus, he can force Gillis’s hand by opting for arbitration this summer.

    Makes him quite dangerous to trade for without knowing if he wants to play for you long term or not. Gillis might have to sign him just to be able to get full value in a trade.

  70. Lowetide says:

    4-1 for MacT now.

  71. Woodguy says:

    copperblueandwhite: ActuallyWoodguy,I think the Tampa Bay spinarama hot dog shoot out goal left a bad taste in a few guys mouths.. just too corny

    I was at that game.

    Roof came off the place and the Oilers won.

    I also remember Renney brushing off the criticism of Omark.

    This is not evidence of Omark having a bad attitude.

  72. Woodguy says:

    Glencross with his 22nd goal.

    A fight with Ott and a goal.

    Its a player like him or Simmonds the Oilers are missing up front.

    Dustin Brown is another of that type.

  73. Woodguy says:

    DSF:
    Woodguy,

    DB – 2G 2A
    AH – 0G 2A

    Only 184 or so games left!

    o

  74. whale says:

    Omark = Swagger!
    Oilers need more swagger. What’s the problem. Oilers need Omark. If only we could trade for this guy.

  75. hunter1909 says:

    Omark could score 30 goals for the Blues, who would be able to cover for his deficiencies.

    There is little need to trade Omark, who is now an NHL rookie turned 2nd year AHL player. That’s hardly incentive to shop him, is it?

    Omark needs to arrive in training camp with more determination, perhaps. Or a new coach(please) will want to use him in some way.

    Why Omark’s not good enough to play on the 4th line is beyond me, but I’m not Tom Renney, and I’m not intentionally trying to lose games either.

  76. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Only 184 or so games left!

    o

    Last 10 games:

    DB 6G 5A 11P

    AH 1G 6A 7P

    The difference could be ginormous after 184 more games. :)

  77. copperblueandwhite says:

    Woodguy,

    Woodguy: I was at that game.

    I also remember Renney brushing off the criticism of Omark.

    This is not evidence of Omark having a bad attitude.

    Don’ t get me wrong, I like the kid and hope he isn’t going to be lost over the summer, but the reason Renney had to defend him was because St Louis and Gagne called him out…plus that was his return game after his stint in the minors, a demotion he claimed as ‘political’…if anyone should have been given a chance on the second line it is Omark and not Petrell…but as seen with Souray, this management plays favourites and holds grudges…

  78. Woodguy says:

    DSF: Last 10 games:

    DB 6G 5A 11P

    AH 1G 6A 7P

    The difference could be ginormous after 184 more games.

    I still like my bet.

    A lot.

  79. Woodguy says:

    copperblueandwhite:
    Woodguy,

    Don’ t get me wrong, I like the kid and hope he isn’tgoingto be lost over the summer, but the reason Renney had to defend him was because St Louis and Gagne called him out…plus that was his return game after his stint in the minors, a demotion he claimed as ‘political’…if anyone should have been given a chance on the second line it is Omark and not Petrell…but as seen with Souray, this management plays favourites and holds grudges…

    Everything you are referring to happened in the 10/11 season.

    He started this year on the opening night roster.

    Your narrative doesn’t work with the evidence.

  80. "Steve Smith" says:

    Woodguy: Any evidence for your claim?

    There you go with your ranting and raving again. Did Sliderule not make himself clear? It’s just the way it is, full stop.

  81. Brett Gee says:

    WG: I agree on Wayne Simmonds. Would have been nice to get him for Penner last season. I wonder if that was an option.

    Linus will be on the team within the week, is my guess, hope, dream.

  82. copperblueandwhite says:

    Woodguy: Everything you are referring to happened in the 10/11 season.

    He started this year on the opening night roster.

    Your narrative doesn’t work with the evidence.

    .

    Well I am actually agreeing with your point but you are on some rag Woodguy, the only reason I can think of for Linus Omark not being here is because he has gotten on the wrong side of someone in the unidimensional management group, and the only thing I can cite is his hotdog moves….I struggle to believe that he isn’t more valuable than Hordi or Petrell but the fact is Linus Omark will soon be lost to this organization and the reason is not obvious. We don’t have a smokin gun your honour, we have a dead body….no Linus Omark in an Oiler uniform!!!

  83. SecondHandSemen says:

    Captain Obvious,

    Schneider a good goaltender or an average goaltender on one of the best teams in the league? Tough to expect any goalie to play to potential with our young team and shoddy defence.

  84. pboy says:

    copperblueandwhite:
    Woodguy,

    Don’ t get me wrong, I like the kid and hope he isn’tgoingto be lost over the summer, but the reason Renney had to defend him was because St Louis and Gagne called him out…plus that was his return game after his stint in the minors, a demotion he claimed as ‘political’…if anyone should have been given a chance on the second line it is Omark and not Petrell…but as seen with Souray, this management plays favourites and holds grudges…

    And if I remember correctly, Stamkos did a showboat move in the SO either 1 or 2 games later and St. Louis and Gagne didn’t have a fucking thing to say about that.

  85. Woodguy says:

    copperblueandwhite: Well I am actually agreeing with your point but you are on some rag Woodguy, the only reason I can think of for Linus Omark not being here is because he has gotten on the wrong side of someone in the unidimensional management group, and the only thing I can cite is his hotdog moves….I struggle to believe that he isn’t more valuable than Hordi or Petrell but the fact is Linus Omark will soon be lost to this organization and the reason is not obvious.We don’t have a smokin gun your honour, we have a dead body….no Linus Omark in an Oiler uniform!!!

    I agree that no Omark is Oiler uniform is the best evidence that someone doesn’t like him, or the very least, doesn’t think he fits.

  86. Woodguy says:

    “Steve Smith”: There you go with your ranting and raving again.Did Sliderule not make himself clear?It’s just the way it is, full stop.

    I’m out of control.

  87. whale says:

    Woodguy: I agree that no Omark is Oiler uniform is the best evidence that someone doesn’t like him, or the very least, doesn’t think he fits.

    Probably the same guy that didn’t like Glencross.

  88. hunter1909 says:

    The need for the top two lines to be able to roll with impunity is paramount to the rebuild. Right now the team has to wait until the Kids are able to play in all situations without getting themselves killed before relatively minor players like Omark and Pajaarvi are able to play on the team.

    The perfect solution is to have a 4th line specifically to develop younger players with, like they did in 1990. Like they did in 1990.

  89. rich says:

    The test could come this week – Hall’s shoulder is injured again (Matheson reporting it not too long ago).

    They might play 7 d-men for tomorrow against Anaheim, but according to the article, the issue w/Hall’s shoulder may not go away until after the season.

    If you’re not going to call up Omark now…Renney is NEVER going to call him up.

  90. speeds says:

    I should probably double check on Omark’s waiver status, but isn’t the issue that he’s close to GP threshold? The problem being that, if he plays a few more games, he’d have to clear waivers, so they may be in a situation where they ideally would like to recall him but can’tf they want him to be back in OKC for the duration of their playoff run by the end of the regular season.

  91. Ryan says:

    No one laugh, but what does the Oiligoshpere think of picking up Dustin Penner in the off season as a UFA?

    Before he started eating Jessica Welch’s delicious pancakes, the the advanced math had a mad crush on him.

    He’s still only 29 and you’d have to think there would be an opportunity to get a deal on him with him scoring 2 more goals than Ladi this year.

    We know he’s never going to play physical, but at least he’s not a smurf. In the past he was effective in all situations (PK, PP, and EVs).

    With respect to the potentially re-up’ed Smytty, the drop off on the LW depth chart is cataclysmic after Hall.

    Hall>Penner>Smyth>Eager looks killer to me if Penner can get back to his previous level of play.

    As much as I’m not sure Penner would want to return, I’m even more certain he won’t be paying for Sutter in LA next year.

    Thoughts?

  92. pboy says:

    I’d be all for bringing Penner back on a 1 year deal. He’s capable of playing excellent hockey and he proved that here in Edmonton. I wouldn’t be willing to do more than a 1 yr deal with club options though.

  93. Lowetide says:

    speeds:
    I should probably double check on Omark’s waiver status, but isn’t the issue that he’s close to GP threshold?The problem being that, if he plays a few more games, he’d have to clear waivers, so they may be in a situation where they ideally would like to recall him but can’tf they want him to be back in OKC for the duration of their playoff run by the end of the regular season.

    That’s exactly the issue, speeds. And I understand it’s an issue, but surely Omark’s NHL career shouldn’t take 2nd place to that item.

  94. Lowetide says:

    “Steve Smith”: There you go with your ranting and raving again.Did Sliderule not make himself clear?It’s just the way it is, full stop.

    This is gold. GOLD, Jerry!

  95. "Steve Smith" says:

    pboy:
    I’d be all for bringing Penner back on a 1 year deal. He’s capable of playing excellent hockey and he proved that here in Edmonton. I wouldn’t be willing to do more than a 1 yr deal with club options though.

    I don’t believe that options are permitted under the current CBA, though who knows about the next one?

    I’d love to see Penner back as long as he was paid commensurately with his market value (i.e. based predominantly on last year’s results) rather than on what we think he can do to us based on his previous go-rounds.

    What do we think his market value is on a one year contract? $1.5 million? I’d sign that in a heartbeat.

  96. Ryan says:

    “Steve Smith”: I don’t believe that options are permitted under the current CBA, though who knows about the next one?

    I’d love to see Penner back as long as he was paid commensurately with his market value (i.e. based predominantly on last year’s results) rather than on what we think he can do to us based on his previous go-rounds.

    What do we think his market value is on a one year contract?$1.5 million?I’d sign that in a heartbeat.

    I agree with you in concept mostly, but Penner at $1.5 x 1 year still sounds a little low since you would have to think his past performance would factor in to a degree. That’s Ryan Jones type money on a 1 year deal.

    I would think even 2 years at $2.5 per give you good odds at having Penner cover the bet.

  97. speeds says:

    Ryan:
    No one laugh, but what does the Oiligoshpere think of picking up Dustin Penner in the off season as a UFA?

    I wouldn’t mind seeing them go after Penner, depending on price.

    I’ll also be interested to see what kind of contract Semin gets this summer, as far as UFA’s go he might be a decent deal for someone.

  98. "Steve Smith" says:

    Ryan: I agree with you in concept mostly, but Penner at $1.5 x 1 year still sounds a little low since you would have to think his past performance would factor in to a degree.That’s Ryan Jones type money on a 1 year deal.

    You might be right, but Jones has outscored Penner this year and, I think, been a healthy scratch less often. I have very little doubt who the better player is, but we’re talking about market value.

    I’d do one year at $2.5 million, but in that second year we’re talking about Hall’s and Eberle’s second contracts (and a new contract for Smid, too), so I don’t think we can be too cavalier about that. Besides, I don’t see that Penner’s in any position to expect a two-year one-way contract from anybody.

    Anyway, I can’t see Renney wanting Penner (or the Oilers signing Penner if Renney didn’t want him) or Penner wanting to play for Renney, so this is probably academic. But it’s a nice thought.

  99. copperblueandwhite says:

    Penner would be best to take the Chelios fitness course and let everyone know it…..$2.5 m for Pancakes seems a bit rich….Jagar shopped around and got $3.3 and he’s projected at 60 points….like Omark, there is something between Penner and Renney…he would be a great addition if he showed up in top shape for $2m max.

  100. bookje says:

    sliderule:
    Omark wrote his own obituary.Bad attitude, not that much offenseand no defense.

    If you are going to show up the coaches like Omark did you have to be way way better than him.

    All you advanced stats guys can rant and rave but that’s the way it is.

    Woodguy: Any evidence for your claim?

    Woodguy, Woodguy, Woodguy (exasperated voice) – Have you not been watching the guy’s body language? And don’t even get me started with when he leaves the ice after practice.

  101. Ryan says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    I agree that there’s risk involved based on Penner’s current season as well as the opportunity to hammer Penner on $$$ and term because of it. :P

    If Penner will sign 1 yr @ $2.5 m, that’s a no-brainer for V4.0

    I am not sure that Penner was traded because Renney didn’t want him though.

    It sounds like they were going to trade one of Penner or Hemsky likely because of the rebuild and wanting another 1st round pick for a defenseman.

    I think they could have just as likely traded Hemsky if they had been offered the right price at the time.

    Either way, Renny has seen Penner good (in the past) and if the price is right, I doubt he would mind having him back.

    Penner is what he is and we already know and accept that. He’s not a heart and soul guy like Smytty nor is he Cal Clutterbuck. However, when playing at his past level, he’s a very effective hockey player with an enormous amount of size.

  102. Schitzo says:

    That news on Hall was not good at all – Matty saying that “a procedure” may be required in the offseason. Fucking awesome.

  103. Ryan says:

    copperblueandwhite:
    ….like Omark, there is something between Penner and Renney…he would be a great addition if he showed up in top shape for $2m max.

    Haha!

    More like “there’s something between Penner and MacT … and Renney … and Sutter … and Murray.

    My guess is that they look at a guy like Penner and see a big man with hands. It probably drives them crazy that he doesn’t

    a) train hard enough
    b) throw his massive frame around
    c) look like he gives a shit and
    d) play with a little more effort.

    That being said, he’s still a very useful player even if he is what he is and not what he could be if he had some Smytty in him.

  104. Ryan says:

    copperblueandwhite:
    Penner would be best to take the Chelios fitness course and let everyone know it…..$2.5 m for Pancakes seems a bit rich….Jagar shopped around and got $3.3 and he’s projected at 60 points….like Omark, there is something between Penner and Renney…he would be a great addition if he showed up in top shape for $2m max.

    That’s not a very good comp.

    Jagr’s one of my all time favorite players to watch but his situation is vastly different than Penner’s.

    I’d say that there was more than a reasonable amount of doubt if Jagr could still play effectively at the NHL level given his age and time away from the league–let alone stay healthy.

    Regardless, the Jagr situation is also different because he’s an over 35 contract.

  105. Woodguy says:

    Schitzo:
    That news on Hall was not good at all – Matty saying that “a procedure” may be required in the offseason.Fucking awesome.

    FFS.

  106. nathan says:

    “Are there many examples of coaches returning after being fired?”

    Very short firing, but another one is Roger Neilson:

    “With the Leafs struggling to earn a playoff spot Ballard, and against the will of his team, fired popular coach Roger Neilson. Two days later, Ballard reversed course and asked Neilson back, but he demanded the coach wear a paper bag over his head on the bench to hide his identity. Neilson did return, sans bag”.

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/top10/owners.html#2

  107. Lowetide says:

    Is this confirmed in regard to Hall?

  108. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Is this confirmed in regard to Hall?

    Sounds like Matty is speculating a bit, but he’s probably right. Rest or a procedure.

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/03/04/hall-may-not-shoulder-the-load/

  109. Lois Lowe says:

    I can see a team like Detroit taking a flyer on Penner. They have stated that they want to get bigger and can probably get him to sign a 1 year deal for 1.5 or 2 million. I have a theory that Penner doesn’t play well for taskmasters and needs a bit of coddling to get the best from him. Both Renney and MacT were able to get him to produce, whereas Carlyle, Murray and Sutter were not.

  110. bookje says:

    Lois Lowe:
    I can see a team like Detroit taking a flyer on Penner. They have stated that they want to get bigger and can probably get him to sign a 1 year deal for 1.5 or 2 million. I have a theory that Penner doesn’t play well for taskmasters and needs a bit of coddling to get the best from him. Both Renney and MacT were able to get him to produce, whereas Carlyle, Murray and Sutter were not.

    He had one of his best years under Quinn who pretty much just let him play. I think he is a hexagonal plug and does not play well when people try to turn him into a power forward.

  111. oilersfan says:

    I think the problem Penner is having is that LA’s forwards are poorly put together. Many individual players that do not complement each other. In many ways, their players are the opposite of the Oilers. All big, physical, grinding forwards that are good goal scorers. No elite fast, skilled, playmakers. The oIlers have too many guys who make plays but aren’t great goal scorers, like RNH, Hemsky and Gagner. LA has too many guys who win puck battles in front of the net and have good shots, like Penner, Stoll, Brown , Carter, Richards. But none of those guys are playmakers, guys who can get the shooters the puck, and they don’t really seem to have any.

    The OIlers create many scoring chances but other than Eberle don’t have any natural finishers or guys who win battles in front of the net. One thing I have noticed about Hall is he creates more scoring chances than almost any player I have ever seen, and although he appears he will become a 30-40 goal scorer, he doesn’t seem to be a natural shooter like Eberle. If he could get his shooting percentage higher, finishing more of the chances he creates, he would be like Stamkos. I can’t quite figure it out because he has a hell of a shot. Hard, quick release. The accuracy needs work. I have only seen him make one “goal scorers goal” since he’s been here, his third goal in his hat trick against Chicago. He shot it between the defencman’s legs, a hard, accurate quick release into the top corner. The rest are more Smytty type garbage goals, results of hard work and scoring off of rebounds, often his own. Watch him shoot, he misses a LOT of shots.

    LA is almost out of balance as much as the Oilers. It would make sense to me to trade a Gagner for a Carter type thing, and that would help both teams. Penner went there and plays with Stoll or Richards. Well they are too much like him. He thrived playing with Gagner and Hemsky, and would again, I believe. I bet he signs with Detroit on a value contract , scores 30 and never leaves, signing several value contracts to play on a good team as a secondary, complementary player. He would fit in great here in that role but I doubt DumbeLoweni will consider it. He is smarter than both of them put together and they can’t understand him.

  112. Ryan says:

    oilersfan,

    Yeah, I can kinda see that too.

    Last thought before I go to bed:

    Imagine Penner V2009-10 on a line with Nuge and Eberle… That would be sick.

  113. Ryan says:

    Oh as for the “3 scoring lines,” how does this look:

    Nuge Penner Eberle
    Gagner Hall Hemsky
    Horcoff Smytty Omark
    Eager Bellanger Jones

    :P

  114. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide:
    I’d love to see MacT back.

    But….but…that could have been MacTavish ST was referring to on Oil Change when he said “I’m not sure I like the idea of that guy around our kids.” HAR.

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