DARCY HORDICHUK 11-12: TIRED EYES

Darcy Hordichuk was hired to be a stand up guy in a dangerous business and he delivered.

Darcy Hordichuk 11-12

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.96 (10th and last among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: nil
  • Qual Comp: 14th toughest and easiest among forwards
  • Qual Team: 13th best available teammates among forwards
  • Corsi Rel: -9.1 (12th best among forwards)
  • Zone Start: 52.3% (5th easiest among forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 47.7% (12th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 27/3.7% (14th best among F’s>25 shots)
  • Boxcars: 42, 1-2-3
  • Plus Minus: -3 on a team that was -26
  1. What do these numbers tell us? As enforcer-policemen go, Hordichuk was a solid solution. He took about 4 minutes a game, played in half the games and even scored a goal.
  2. How could these numbers be better? I think this is about right. If Hordichuk can go this again I think he’ll find a job in the NHL.
  3. How does he compare to last year’s enforcer (MacIntyre)? Hordichuk played 68 minutes more than SMac and is a better hockey player. Last season, MacIntyre faced similar qual comp and had a CorsiRel of -29.1. In his post season RE I wrote this about MacIntyre’s season: the play began in the offensive zone and ended up in the Oilers zone with such great regularity that the Oilers were basically shorthanded for all of his 120 even minutes. Hordichuk’s CorsiRel was a big improvement on MacIntyre.
  4. So you’re a fan? It’s important to remember that this player type isn’t my favorite but the Oilers feel they need it to protect the kids. So, not quite a fan but I prefer him to some of the men who have played here post BG.
  5. Do these players protect the kids? No. They’re never on the ice when bad things happen to good people. It’s kind of a transition period for these players. I think they may be calligraphers about 1975.
  6. What does stop trampling the kids underfoot? This season Edmonton’s splendid powerplay knocked some teams back when they paid in full for their shenanigans.
  7. Why do the Oilers have these kinds of players? It’s rote, like when someone offers me a beer. I don’t even know why people bother, haven’t said no for 40 years. Same with the Oilers. When they sit down and make up their roster, there’s a spot for “enforcer” and now there’s two spots for enforcers.
  8. Hordichuk and Eager? Yes.
  9. Which one will they keep? Eager.
  10. Why? He’s signed.
  11. Is Eager the better player? Sure, but I think Hordichuk might be a better player for this roster.
  12. Why? He’ll take 4 minutes a night and play in half the games. Oilers gave Eager 350 minutes beyond what they gave Hordichuk; it might be better used on Hartikainen or Paajarvi next season. Hordichuk never sees that time, Eager is higher up the food chain but can’t really play with skill.
  13. You thought Eager could play with skill in the fall. I thought he’d be a better player but said “6 minutes a night, cut back on the penalties taken and let him agitate like an old time washing machine. I have him playing 9 minutes a night in the RE template because the coach will try him in several roles until he feels comfortable with him.”
  14. What’s the solution? Get good players, and if you must have an enforcer re-sign Darcy Hordichuk and flush Ben Eager.
  15. Do you think the Oilers will do that? I think they’ll try to trade Eager, seemed pretty mad at him after the late March sequence against CBJ’s Jared Boll. Eager was on the ice but didn’t go after Boll, I’m certain the Oilers noticed it because the verbal after that was about protecting the kids for a few news cycles.
  16. Enough about Eager. What else does Hordichuk offer? That’s about it. 4 minutes a night half the nights on the schedule and he’ll man up anytime, anywhere.
  17. That’s worth a roster spot? The Oilers think so, and this is reasonable expectations which is designed to take personal opinion out of it.
  18. Just the facts? Yes.
  19. How about some personal opinions. Personal opinions are boring, everyone has one and I’m a fan with personal bias. What do I know?
  20. Don’t be a baby. Okay. Will Hordichuk be in the NHL next season? Yes.
  21. Will he be an Oiler? Yes.
  22. You could not be more wrong. Good grief.

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82 Responses to "DARCY HORDICHUK 11-12: TIRED EYES"

  1. delooper says:

    Your alter-ego is starting to get a little aggressive.

  2. Lowetide says:

    I know. Wait until Omark tomorrow. :-)

  3. DBO says:

    Hordichuk did as well as he could. Not his fault he isn’t a great player. My issue with the 5 minute enforcer is that he does nothing else. I think you mentioned it yesterday, but a guy like Konopka (who has been mentioned a million times by Stauffer) brings the same nastiness, along with faceoff ability and he can kill penalties. that is a valuable player, while Hordichuk is super one dimensional.

    Eager can at least play more minutes and hold his own. I think if Eager comes back I expect him to be more truculent. The concussion I think did more damage then we realize. Subconsciously it holds you back.

  4. Ryan says:

    I think Hordichuk did an excellent job protecting the kids :p Nothing like Hordichuk shrugging his shoulders after the game saying he asked the offender to dance and he was turned down. That is the epitome of an effective deterrent though it’s obviously not quite as good as SMAC glaring at the offender from the PB.

    I was surprised by Eager. I thought he was a little crazier than he turned out to be. I had mistakenly thought he would create a little more chaos on the ice in the physical sense. It sounds like he thinks he’s a power forward not a 4rth line energy player.

    I’m a little too oilcententric in my viewing of the game. I remember in 2009-10, I spent more time watching other teams play. That epic year of injuries, I remember Calgary man handling the Oilers and taking constant liberties. When Calgary even played teams like Colorado that season, they looked totally different.

    It’s also terribly frustrating to watch the obstruction and liberties taken against our gifted kids.

    Other than having a lethal PP (if the zebras are calling penalties), what else works as an effective deterrent in today’s NHL?

  5. Traktor says:

    David Poile is considered one of the smartest GM’s in the leauge. Interesting that McGrattan played 30 games for Nashville this year.

    Here is a list of successful teams (teams that made the playoffs) and they enforcers that play for them. Some might not believe in enforcers or “energy” players but it would seem like most successful GM’s think the opposite. That’s not to say Hordichuk is a good option but the idea that “engery” players aren’t needed is bunk.

    Boston

    Thornton
    Lucic
    McQuaid

    Chicago

    Mayers
    Carcillo

    LA

    Westgarth
    Clifford

    Nashville

    McGrattan
    Tootoo
    Stortini

    New Jersey

    Janssen

    New York

    Prust
    Bickel
    Rupp

    Ottawa

    Carkner
    Konopka
    Neil

    Philadelphia

    Shelley
    Rinaldo

    Phoenix

    Bissonnette

    Pittsburgh

    Asham
    Engelland

    San Jose

    Vandermeer

    St Louis

    Reaves
    Crombeen

    Vancouver

    Weise

  6. Traktor says:

    DBO:
    I think you mentioned it yesterday, but a guy like Konopka (who has been mentioned a million times by Stauffer) brings the same nastiness, along with faceoff ability and he can kill penalties. that is a valuable player, while Hordichuk is super one dimensional.

    I was advocating bringing in Konopka last year well. Actually, I suggested bringing him two years ago.

    Konopka is what I’m talking about when I say I say Tambellini needs to hit two birds with one stone with his depth players. You get the toughness AND you get Belanger’s face-off ability so you get two players for the price of 1 roster spot.

  7. tubes says:

    A friend of mine went on that California road trip with the Oilers and pretty much said Eager was the biggest idiot on the team. Mentioned that Eager thought the coaches and their staff were always out to get him. Bad attitude on the plane, not friendly, etc. Flush this guy. Second lowest hockey IQ on this team besides Cam Barker.

  8. VOR says:

    Not to re-ignite yesterday’s debate and I will return to hockey at the end of this post.

    However, I am probably the only working scientist who posts here. Worse I had to take senior and graduate level courses in annoying things like statistics, science of philosophy, metaphysics and epistemology. After last night I thought I’d share my favorite website (lowetide excluded of course). http://www.badscience.net/. Some of you were a bit hostile to science and scientists in the last thread. I thought I’d show you what scientific criticism looks like when a scientist does it.

    Bad science is irreverant, funny, to the point. In plain, simple English Dr. Ben Goldacre entertains, informs, rants, goes off on tangents, riles people up, has conversations with himself where his alter ego gets a little fiesty (hmm does any of this sound familiar LT – by the way science has a long history of asking and answering your own questions if you can find Erwin Chargaff’s – he is the founder of molecular biology – rants online I promise you will laugh your guts out), and relentlessly exposes sloppy think of many kinds. You have to check out Goldacre’s other blog as well. http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/

    That is where I found this link to a CBC documentary on “experts”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW3wQdo3sg4&feature=player_embedded

    That in turn led me to this great website

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/

    My point simply is that from my standpoint many of you had valid points in the last post (yes even you DSF) but seemed unaware that scientists are far more critical of the process of big science and bad science than any of you can imagine being. There is an entire complex philosophical speciality in which all five branches of philosophy are deployed in the study of science. Each year hundreds of new papers and dozens of books are written in the field.

    I get that most of you have never read Thomas Kuhn or Karl Popper and probably would prefer a root canal to be forced to read them. Ben Goldacre covers all the same stuff but is way, way more fun.

    Sadly, there is nothing similar in epistemology that I know of, however Janus Blog sometimes has individual posts that are as good as Bad Science. It will also keep you about to date on current thinking about thinking. This is one of the most active fields of human enquiry and there is new important material being published nearly every day.

    http://janusblog.squarespace.com/

    Returning to hockey deterence isn’t easy. To the extent it can be accomplished you need guys in your lineup, throughout your line up, who practice a pack mentality and will instantly come to a teammates aid. You also need great penalty killing and a lethal powerplay. You need agitators who take the other teams goons off their game. You need players who are physical challenges for the other team so the other guys are too tired to goon it up. You also need fighters and psychos. There used to be this team that played at Rexall place that had all those things. Hordichuk is a bit of a throw back to those days.

  9. Dipstick says:

    tubes:
    A friend of mine went on that California road trip with the Oilers and pretty much said Eager was the biggest idiot on the team. Mentioned that Eager thought the coaches and their staff were always out to get him. Bad attitude on the plane, not friendly, etc. Flush this guy. Second lowest hockey IQ on this team besides Cam Barker.

    You must be mistaken. He isn’t the first player off the ice at practice!

  10. Mr DeBakey says:

    I was advocating bringing in Konopka last year well. Actually, I suggested bringing him two years ago.

    You agreed with Stauffer? Who wudda thunk? What’s next, sunrisein the morning?

    This time last year there was a strong Konopkist elememt on all the Oiler boards.
    Didn’t Mr Tambourlinniman go out of his way to say they weren’t interested?

  11. FPB94 says:

    Political message:

    Reading the papers this morning, I was somewhat proud of Alberta. You survived the temptation of electing the sole canadian party who didn’t recognize global warming.

    Also a small note for the victors: Progressive Conservatism really makes no sense.

  12. FPB94 says:

    Tubes: I’d be cautious with small tales. Maybe someone died in his family. Shit happens.

  13. Traktor says:

    FPB94:
    Political message:

    Reading the papers this morning, I was somewhat proud of Alberta.You survived the temptation of electing the sole canadian party who didn’t recognize global warming.

    What is this global warming that you speak of?

  14. Bar_Qu says:

    Traktor,

    bookje would tell you it is a tale told by a communist to an idiot.

    But the communists didn’t get elected here yesterday.
    FPB94,

    That’s exactly what I was thinking about tubes anecdote. It would be like me sharing my third hand knowledge of Katz. It means nothing.

  15. bendelson says:

    Bar_Qu,

    In this the brave new world of late capitalism, anything left of the bat-shit crazy extreme right is often labelled socialist/communist.

    Just saying….

  16. Moosemess says:

    I think Eager is a better option than Hordichuk and we might’ve seen that had not the Oilers’ brain trust in their infinite wisdom welcomed their new acquisition with a ceremonial boarding at an intra-squad game. And we wonder why free agents don’t want to sign with this team?

  17. DSF says:

    Luongo willing to waive his NTC.

    Let the drama begin.

  18. Traktor says:

    DSF:
    Luongo willing to waive his NTC.

    Let the drama begin.

    That was the easy part.

    He is owed 6.7M the next 6 years with a cap hit of 5.3M the next 10 years.

    To make matters worse Gillis’ history of trades is pretty poor.

    I know Carter and Richards were moved but goalies are much more of a risk. I can’t even think of a goalie that has been traded with 5 years left on his contract. I’m having a hard time remembering any goalie being moving with more than a couple years left on his contract.

    I would offer Horcoff, Belanger and Bulin.

  19. Ducey says:

    Moosemess:
    I think Eager is a better option than Hordichuk and we might’ve seen that had not the Oilers’ brain trust in their infinite wisdom welcomed their new acquisition with a ceremonial boarding at an intra-squad game. And we wonder why free agents don’t want to sign with this team?

    Its Lowe’s and Tamby’s fault he got a concussion? What’s next, blaming them for MacT’s cancer?

  20. Ducey says:

    Traktor: That was the easy part. He is owed 6.7M the next 6 years with a cap hit of 5.3M the next 10 years.To make matters worse Gillis’ history of trades is pretty poor.I know Carter and Richards were moved but goalies are much more of a risk. I can’t even think of a goalie that has been traded with 5 years left on his contract. I’m having a hard time remembering any goalie being moving with more than a couple years left on his contract.I would offer Horcoff, Belanger and Bulin.

    What if Horcoff doesn’t waive his NMC? :)

    I think Gillis is going to lose in the trade but not that badly. He likely will be able to get a spare part from Toronto. Maybe Mike Komisarek and a 4th from Toronto?

  21. FPB94 says:

    We all know Katz’s pills give cancer. Silly Ducey.

  22. Traktor says:

    The only teams I can see being interested…

    Toronto
    Edmonton
    New Jersey
    Columbus
    Tampa Bay

    All the other teams have a starting goalie, or like Florida have an elite goalie prospect ready to make the jump.

    Lecavalier straight up probably makes the most sense.

  23. Traktor says:

    Ducey: What if Horcoff doesn’t waive his NMC?

    Tell him that he can accept a trade now or spend the year in the PB and then the next two years in the AHL.

  24. Bar_Qu says:

    Traktor,

    That’s the kind of move that will really have the vet UFAs lined up to sign in Edm. (Play your heart out, keep your mouth shut and then we punish you for our mistakes!)

  25. Ducey says:

    Traktor:
    The only teams I can see being interested…
    TorontoEdmontonNew JerseyColumbusTampa Bay
    All the other teams have a starting goalie, or like Florida have an elite goalie prospect ready to make the jump.
    Lecavalier straight up probably makes the most sense.

    I don’t the Oilers will be interested. They are likely going to give DD 55 – 60 games next year and really there is not much between DD and Luo. DD had a .914 save % and Luongo had a .919. Factor in EDM’s weak defence and the fact DD was much stronger after Jan 1, and there is no need to bring in a 10 year contract.

  26. Traktor says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Traktor,

    That’s the kind of move that will really have the vet UFAs lined up to sign in Edm. (Play your heart out, keep your mouth shut and then we punish you for our mistakes!)

    New York did it with Redden and didn’t have any problems signing UFA’s.

    I think most players would like to play for a competitive team rather than a team that doesn’t hold players accountable and doesn’t look to improve their roster.

    Horcoff had a good run, made a lot of money, but his best years are behind him and now has negative value. I think most UFA’s would understand that.

    If UFA’s choose to sign with Edmonton its play with the players like Hall, RNH, Eberle and Yakupov. What we do with Horcoff is likely irrelevant to most UFA’s.

  27. Bar_Qu says:

    Ducey: I don’t the Oilers will be interested. They are likely going to give DD 55 – 60 games next year and really there is not much between DD and Luo. DD had a .914 save % and Luongo had a .919. Factor in EDM’s weak defence and the fact DD was much stronger after Jan 1, and there is no need to bring in a 10 year contract.

    Plus there are no cup rings on any of his fingers. A sure sign of ‘tender incompetence (SV% be damned).

  28. Traktor says:

    Ducey: I don’t the Oilers will be interested. They are likely going to give DD 55 – 60 games next year and really there is not much between DD and Luo. DD had a .914 save % and Luongo had a .919. Factor in EDM’s weak defence and the fact DD was much stronger after Jan 1, and there is no need to bring in a 10 year contract.

    I agree but Edmonton was one of the few teams without a legit starter.

    Reimer has similar upside to DD but I included Toronto as well.

  29. Moosemess says:

    Ducey, if the Oilers wanted to take a long look to see if Kirill Tulupov can headhunt the opposition, they should probably encourage that kind of behavior in an actual pre-season game involving an opposing team, not turn him loose on teammates in the freaking Joey Moss. I was ten feet away from the hit when it happened. It was brutal, irresponsible and completely unnecessary. If I was Eager and my new employer had welcomed me aboard in that fashion, I would’ve been seriously pissed.

  30. Jordan says:

    Ducey: I don’t the Oilers will be interested. They are likely going to give DD 55 – 60 games next year and really there is not much between DD and Luo. DD had a .914 save % and Luongo had a .919. Factor in EDM’s weak defence and the fact DD was much stronger after Jan 1, and there is no need to bring in a 10 year contract.

    I have to agree. Edmonton should not be considered an option. I can’t see Burke biting on that contract ever – he’s been so loathe to give them out and so belligerent about not making moves he didn’t believe in, I think he’d risk getting canned before trading for that kind of contract. And I can only imagine how much Luuuuuu would hate the media in Toronto.

    If Brodeur is as done as he looks, I could see that making sense, and I could see it being hilarious especially if the team is going to go brankrupt (not that Bobby Lou or his agent would waive to go there, if those rumors are true).

    I think that both T-Bay and Columbus look like the best bets right now. I would love to see Lecavalier in Vancouver, if only because it would be hilarious to consider Montreal fans freaking out about him being unwilling to go be a Canadien, but being okay with Vancouver. I really do not want to see him go to Columbus, because I would bet that Gillis would want Nash back, and that considering how much oumf they lacked in the playoffs this year, Gillis would probably add the picks necessary to make it happen.

    That group would then be very scary.

  31. DSF says:

    Jordan: I have to agree.Edmonton should not be considered an option.I can’t see Burke biting on that contract ever – he’s been so loathe to give them out and so belligerent about not making moves he didn’t believe in, I think he’d risk getting canned before trading for that kind of contract.And I can only imagine how much Luuuuuu would hate the media in Toronto.

    If Brodeur is as done as he looks, I could see that making sense, and I could see it being hilarious especially if the team is going to go brankrupt (not that Bobby Lou or his agent would waive to go there, if those rumors are true).

    I think that both T-Bay and Columbus look like the best bets right now.I would love to see Lecavalier in Vancouver, if only because it would be hilarious to consider Montreal fans freaking out about him being unwilling to go be a Canadien, but being okay with Vancouver.I really do not want to see him go to Columbus, because I would bet that Gillis would want Nash back, and that considering how much oumf they lacked in the playoffs this year, Gillis would probably add the picks necessary to make it happen.

    That group would then be very scary.

    I think a trade between Columbus and Vancouver centred around Nash and Luongo is the most likely scenario.

    There are, effectively, 6 years left on Luongo’s contract then the salary dollars drop significantly so a buy out would be very easy.

    Nash’s contract is actually backloaded in that his salary increases from $7.5M to $8.2M over the next 6 years.

    The hockey deal works for both teams because Columbus desperately needs goaltending and Vancouver wants to get bigger in the top 6.

    The question remains what else the two teams would need to move in order to make the deal work.

    There is no way Vancouver would take on Lecavalier’s contract IMO.

  32. Traktor says:

    DSF: I think a trade between Columbus and Vancouver centred around Nash and Luongo is the most likely scenario.

    There are, effectively, 6 years left on Luongo’s contract then the salary dollars drop significantly so a buy out would be very easy.

    Nash’s contract is actually backloaded in that his salary increases from $7.5M to $8.2M over the next 6 years.

    The hockey deal works for both teams because Columbus desperately needs goaltending and Vancouver wants to get bigger in the top 6.

    The question remains what else the two teams would need to move in order to make the deal work.

    There is no way Vancouver would take on Lecavalier’s contract IMO.

    Didn’t I already read somewhere that you have Nash going to Toronto?

    Unfortunately for Gillis Vancouver isn’t one of the teams that Nash is willing to waive his NTC for and Nash and his agent have been quite vocal that his list is not going to change. Toronto, San Jose, NY, LA, and Boston are the clubs that he is willing to waive his NTC for.

  33. DSF says:

    L.A. Lariviere ‏ @L_A_theRiver

    Roberto #Luongo has written a list of four teams to which he would accept to be traded. Details to come.
    Retweeted by James Mirtle

  34. DSF says:

    Traktor: Didn’t I already read somewhere that you have Nash going to Toronto?

    Unfortunately for Gillis Vancouver isn’t one of the teams that Nash is willing to waive his NTC for and Nash and his agent have been quite vocal that his list is not going to change. Toronto, San Jose, NY, LA, and Boston are the clubs that he is willing to waive his NTC for.

    Didn’t see the Nash story.

    Got a link?

  35. Ducey says:

    DSF,

    I think a trade between Columbus and Vancouver centred around Nash and Luongo is the most likely scenario.

    There are, effectively, 6 years left on Luongo’s contract then the salary dollars drop significantly so a buy out would be very easy.

    Nash’s contract is actually backloaded in that his salary increases from $7.5M to $8.2M over the next 6 years.

    The hockey deal works for both teams because Columbus desperately needs goaltending and Vancouver wants to get bigger in the top 6.

    I think this is the Vancouver Canuck fan in you speaking.

    Howson could get a #1 pick, and two or three great young assets for Nash. (Toronto would likely give them their #1 pick, Gardiner and say Carter Ashton) Instead, he is going to bring in a slightly above average goaler on a 10 year contract? Thats hardly going to put a dent in his rebuild.

    Howson is smart enough to know (or he should be) that you can dig around in the recycling pile every offseason and find a few useful goalies on the cheap. Heck, you could go overpay the hottest FA goalie and still save money over Luongo. Why would you give up your franchise player for him?

    Luongo is going to bring back some slightly worn and overpriced pieces, or maybe a prospect down on his luck and a mid round pick, nothing more.

  36. Jordan says:

    Ducey,

    I think you’re underselling Gillis here.

    I wouldn’t expect that deal to happen straight up, but something with those two as the primary pieces could happen – and if there were a place Nash might expand his NTC to go to, it would be Vancouver. None of the other teams on his list (save Toronto) need to make some noise in the offseason. I couls see Boston considering something similar with a Thomas for Nash deal, which could be prefereable, but I think Gillis could top it with something like:

    Luongo + 1st (2013) + 3rd (2012) + Gragnani for Nash.

    I’m not saying It’s a good deal for Howson, but it would at least make them look at it.

  37. DSF says:

    Ducey:
    DSF,

    I think a trade between Columbus and Vancouver centred around Nash and Luongo is the most likely scenario.


    There are, effectively, 6 years left on Luongo’s contract then the salary dollars drop significantly so a buy out would be very easy.

    Nash’s contract is actually backloaded in that his salary increases from $7.5M to $8.2M over the next 6 years.

    The hockey deal works for both teams because Columbus desperately needs goaltending and Vancouver wants to get bigger in the top 6.

    I think this is the Vancouver Canuck fan in you speaking.

    Howson could get a #1 pick, and two or three great young assets for Nash. (Toronto would likely give them their #1 pick, Gardiner and say Carter Ashton) Instead, he is going to bring in a slightly above average goaler on a 10 year contract? Thats hardly going to put a dent in his rebuild.

    Howson is smart enough to know (or he should be) that you can dig around in the recycling pile every offseason and find a few useful goalies on the cheap. Heck, you could go overpay the hottest FA goalie and still save money over Luongo. Why would you give up your franchise player for him?

    Luongo is going to bring back some slightly worn and overpriced pieces, or maybe a prospect down on his luck and a mid round pick, nothing more.

    Well, Howson seems to have tried your “a few useful goalies on the cheap strategy” and found it wanting.

    Suggesting Luongo is slightly above average goaltender is certainly hyperbole since only 9 goalies in the league who played 40 games had a better save percentage (unless you think Tim Thomas is a “slightly above average” goaltender at .920)

    Luongo is a quality player and only his contract lowers his value.

    I think you’ll be surprised by the return Gillis gets.

  38. DSF says:

    Jordan:
    Ducey,

    I think you’re underselling Gillis here.

    I wouldn’t expect that deal to happen straight up, but something with those two as the primary pieces could happen – and if there were a place Nash might expand his NTC to go to, it would be Vancouver.None of the other teams on his list (save Toronto) need to make some noise in the offseason.I couls see Boston considering something similar with a Thomas for Nash deal, which could be prefereable, but I think Gillis could top it with something like:

    Luongo + 1st (2013) + 3rd (2012) + Gragnani for Nash.

    I’m not saying It’s a good deal for Howson, but it would at least make them look at it.

    Don’t be surprised if Kesler’s name is mentioned and the deal expands beyond that.

    Howson is not in an enviable position. Nash HAS to be traded and the Jackets HAVE to make the playoffs.

  39. gogliano says:

    Overpriced goalie with 10 year contract who is being shopped because he has a stigma of being unable to win in the playoffs and who restricted the possible trade partners to 4 teams = surprisingly large return.

  40. DSF says:

    gogliano:
    Overpriced goalie with 10 year contract who is being shopped because he has a stigma of being unable to win in the playoffs and who restricted the possible trade partners to 4 teams = surprisingly large return.

    That would certainly be the Oilercentric narrative of why he’s being shopped but that doesn’t make it accurate.

    Do you think the emergence of a 26 year old with a solid pro record and a regular season save percentage of .936 as well as a playoff save percentage of .960 might have a little more to do with it?

    Are you aware than Schenider is only 3 months older than Dubnyk?

    Amazing isn’t it?

  41. Lowetide says:

    I think the Luongo deal will define Gillis.

    Number one, Schneider: is he ready?
    Number two: can Gillis add something useful in return for Bobby that doesn’t cost a lot of cap?
    Number three: is that blueline the one we saw last spring or this?

  42. Woodguy says:

    There is now way on God’s Green Earth that LOLongo waives his NMC to go to Columbus.

    If he named 4 teams I’d bet: FLA, TBY and two other East Coast teams to be closer to his wife’s family.

    Maybe NJD fits that.

  43. DSF says:

    james duthie ‏ @tsnjamesduthie

    Contrary to some Twitter talk, Luongo has not submitted a list of teams to the Canucks.

    Apparently not true.

  44. Traktor says:

    Gillis would be smarter to deal Schneider.

    1. Schneider would bring more value back in a trade.

    2. Schneider is also going to make good money (a lot more than 2nd round compensation).

    3. There isn’t huge difference in skill between the two goalies.

  45. Woodguy says:

    DSF: That would certainly be the Oilercentric narrative of why he’s being shopped but that doesn’t make it accurate.

    Do you think the emergence of a 26 year old with a solid pro record and a regular season save percentage of .936 as well as a playoff save percentage of .960 might have a little more to do with it?

    Are you aware than Schenider is only 3 months older than Dubnyk?

    Amazing isn’t it?

    Are you aware that DD has played 101 NHL games and Schneider has only played 68?

    Are you aware that CHI extended Crawford at about 68 NHL games and he had a .925 and has been very average since?

    Amazing isn’t it?

    I like Schneider and think he’ll be a quality NHL goalie, but 68 games is very early in a career.

    Especially with his last AHL season being a .919

  46. Ducey says:

    Suggesting Luongo is slightly above average goaltender is certainly hyperbole since only 9 goalies in the league who played 40 games had a better save percentage (unless you think Tim Thomas is a “slightly above average” goaltender at .920)

    Luongo played behind the President’s Cup champion team. I don’t think his save % would be .919 if he played goal for the Jackets or Oilers. Do you?

    If Luongo is well above average and he is only .005 in save % better than DD, this must make DD and above average goalie. You agree DSF? I didn’t think so :)

    Luongo + 1st (2013) + 3rd (2012) + Gragnani for Nash

    I could see CLB looking at that, but I think that they would be more tempted just to say: “Forget Luongo” and try and get some more pieces from VCR. Why wouldn’t they just take Eddie Lack instead? Two firsts + 3rd + Gragnani and Lack and they would likely be much more interested.

  47. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Are you aware that DD has played 101 NHL games and Schneider has only played 68?

    Are you aware that CHI extended Crawford at about 68 NHL games and he had a .925 and has been very average since?

    Amazing isn’t it?

    I like Schneider and think he’ll be a quality NHL goalie, but 68 games is very early in a career.

    Especially with his last AHL season being a .919

    DD has played more games…almost all of them poorly. His .910 save percentage is a testament to that.

    There’s an awful long way between a career .910 and a career .928.

    Schneider has also played 8 playoff games and posted a .940 save percentage in them.

    While I agree with LT that Gillis is taking a gamble here, I think the odds of it paying off are huge.

    Even if he loses the gamble, he’s not likely to end up any worse than Dubnyk who has a career save percentage identical to Crawford’s.

    All NHL signings are a gamble…the good GM’s just get it right more often than the others.

  48. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    I think the Luongo deal will define Gillis.

    Number one, Schneider: is he ready?
    Number two: can Gillis add something useful in return for Bobby that doesn’t cost a lot of cap?
    Number three: is that blueline the one we saw last spring or this?

    At some point, you have to jump in the water.

    Word is Gillis is also looking to add a top 4 defenseman.

    I think they missed Ehrhoff’s shot from the point on the PP this season so I could see them taking a run at Garrison out of Florida given that Tallon and Gillis are frequent trading partners and Garrison is from Whiterock.

  49. gogliano says:

    DSF: That would certainly be the Oilercentric narrative of why he’s being shopped but that doesn’t make it accurate.

    Do you think the emergence of a 26 year old with a solid pro record and a regular season save percentage of .936 as well as a playoff save percentage of .960 might have a little more to do with it?

    Are you aware than Schenider is only 3 months older than Dubnyk?

    Amazing isn’t it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size

    I’d deal Schneider.

  50. pboy says:

    Let’s not make Gillis into the second coming of Sam Pollock. He’s made plenty of mistakes during his tenure as well. Luongo’s contract is pretty ugly, the Sundin signing, the Luongo captaincy, the Booth acquisition, the Keith Ballard trade……. I’d swap Gillis for Tambo in a heartbeat but Im not ready to deify him yet.

  51. DSF says:

    gogliano: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size

    I’d deal Schneider.

    Listened to an interview with MacT about a week ago.

    He’s convinced that Eddie Lack (AHL SV% – .925 and .926 in 99 games over two seasons) is not only NHL ready but is going to be a very good NHL goaltender.

    Gillis has his bases covered here IMO.

  52. Woodguy says:

    For the record, I think that Schneider will have a better career SV% than DD.

    His AHL history is better (.916, .930, .915) vs DD’s .904,.910,.915.

    His NHL history is better too.

    I just think Schneider is far from a slam dunk, but it is the right move to move LOL while you can, he’s only getting older as he’ll hit 800 NHL GP in his 33 old year.

    He still has enough hockey left to get a reasonable return, but the length of his contract will dampen the return somewhat.

  53. DSF says:

    Woodguy:
    For the record, I think that Schneider will have a better career SV% than DD.

    His AHL history is better (.916, .930, .915) vs DD’s .904,.910,.915.

    His NHL history is better too.

    I just think Schneider is far from a slam dunk, but it is the right move to move LOL while you can, he’s only getting older as he’ll hit 800 NHL GP in his 33 old year.

    He still has enough hockey left to get a reasonable return, but the length of his contract will dampen the return somewhat.

    Exactly.

  54. DSF says:

    Man.

    Anyone else miss Cam Cole?

    Great read on the fate of the powerhouse teams that got bounced in the first round:

    “Fans want blood, and we in the critical end of the business, as Ernest Hemingway wrote, “are men who watch a battle from a high place then come down and shoot the survivors.”

    http://tinyurl.com/6n5l6fe

  55. ASkoreyko says:

    Pitlick 0-2 +2 tonight.

    Pitlick 4GP 2G 2A 4PTS +3 12 SOG so far in the playoffs.

    Perhaps this kid has found another gear?

    Is he is now finally getting the ice-time and line-mates that will help him push offensively? Should be interesting to watch him for the rest of their Calder Cup run.

    I really enjoyed the kid’s game in the pre-season, thought he looked to take the body at every opportunity and showed that he might just be able to ride shotgun on a more talented line and create some space. I know I am projecting a lot on him, but I will be watching his stat lines very closely this off-season.

  56. DSF says:

    ASkoreyko:
    Pitlick 0-2 +2 tonight.

    Pitlick 4GP 2G2A4PTS+312 SOG so far in the playoffs.

    Perhaps this kid has found another gear?

    Is he is now finally getting the ice-time and line-mates that will help him push offensively? Should be interesting to watch him for the rest of their Calder Cup run.

    I really enjoyed the kid’s game in the pre-season, thought he looked to take the body at every opportunity and showed that he might just be able to ride shotgun on a more talented line and create some space. I know I am projecting a lot on him, but I will be watching his stat lines very closely this off-season.

    Watching the game.

    Pitlick has looked very, very good.

    On the downside…Paajarvi has been somewhere between invisible and dreadful

    0G 0A 0P -1

  57. ASkoreyko says:

    DSF: Watching the game.

    Pitlick has looked very, very good.

    On the downside…Paajarvi has been somewhere between invisible and dreadful

    0G 0A 0P -1

    Do you have a link DSF? I would really appreciate it.

  58. DSF says:

    ASkoreyko: Do you have a link DSF? I would really appreciate it.

    Here ya go:

    http://atdhenet.tv/42224/watch-ahl-houston-aeros-vs-oklahoma-city-barons

  59. Ducey says:

    I know I am projecting a lot on him, but I will be watching his stat lines very closely this off-season.

    I think you are projecting too much on him. It will be impossible for him to put up any stats this offseason :)

  60. DSF says:

    Game over.

    3-1 Barons.

    Appeared to be about 29 people in the stands.

  61. ASkoreyko says:

    Ducey:
    I know I am projecting a lot on him, but I will be watching his stat lines very closely this off-season.

    I think you are projecting too much on him.It will be impossible for him to put up any stats this offseason

    I guess that means my expectations are WAY to high hey?

  62. DSF says:

    ASkoreyko: I guess that means my expectations are WAY to high hey?

    I watched 3 of the 4 games in the series and, other than the AHL vets who are really driving the bus, Pitlick was easily the best prospect on the ice.

    2G 2A 4P +3.

    Nice.

  63. Gerta Rauss says:

    Gillis on trading Hodgson(TSN)

    Gillis also stated that leading up to the deadline, the club increased Hodgson’s minutes in order to increase his trade value.

    “We built him into something we could move,” Gillis stated. “There were six young players that I would have traded him for if any of them were ever made available. One was made available at the trade deadline and it was Zack

  64. DSF says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Gillis on trading Hodgson(TSN)

    Gillis also stated that leading up to the deadline, the club increased Hodgson’s minutes in order to increase his trade value.


    “We built him into something we could move,” Gillis stated. “There were six young players that I would have traded him for if any of them were ever made available. One was made available at the trade deadline and it was Zack

    Smart.

    Good asset management,

    See Omark, Linus for reference.

  65. bookje says:

    DSF: Smart.

    Good asset management,

    See Omark, Linus for reference.

    I fully agree with DSF here – makes me feel sleazy somehow.

  66. DSF says:

    bookje: I fully agree with DSF here – makes me feel sleazy somehow.

    You’ll come around.

    Eventually.

  67. DSF says:

    McKenzie on Luongo’s contract:

    We talk a lot about Roberto Luongo’s contract with the Vancouver Canucks. There are 10 years left on it but keep in mind that it’s one of those cheater contracts, if you want to call it that.

    Over the next six years, he’s making $6.7 million per year in terms of his actual salary and his cap hit is only $5.3 million. Whether it’s a six-year deal or he sticks around for a seventh year and makes $3.4 million, if he does, I bet he’s playing very well. Those last three years were just tacked on to the end to lower the cap average and I can’t imagine him sticking around during those seasons.

    From the Canucks perspective, I don’t know if they are going to get a huge number of assets back in exchange for Luongo but they are going to get $5.3 million in cap space. The teams that will want Luongo are not going to give up a lot taking on that contract.

    Even if it isn’t 10 years, six or seven years is still a lot but a more palatable number than when you first look at the entire contract.

  68. cabbiesmacker says:

    DSF: Smart.

    Good asset management,

    Or dumb I guess. Certainly arguable

    Bad asset management?
    http://thehockeywriters.com/vancouver-canucks-trade-for-david-booth/

    What I want most for Roberto Luongo? That he stays and finishes his career in Vancouver.

    Cha Ching

    .

    Bad asset management.

  69. DSF says:

    cabbiesmacker: Or dumb I guess. Certainly arguable

    Bad asset management?
    http://thehockeywriters.com/vancouver-canucks-trade-for-david-booth/

    What I want most for Roberto Luongo? That he stays and finishes his career in Vancouver.

    Cha Ching

    .

    Bad asset management.

    Well, you’re already on a losing streak.

    Keep it going.

    How bout them Hawks?

  70. cabbiesmacker says:

    DSF: Well, you’re already on a losing streak.

    Keep it going.

    How bout them Hawks?

    One more playoff game than the Nyuck Nyuks? And actual prospects vs…well you know. Small reason to celebrate of course but Duncan Keith playing a small hand in…well you know that too.

    I thought Kassian filled in admirably for Hodgson in the playoffs though. I mean that’s exactly the reason Gillis went out and got him yes? Epic man…fn epic.

    Should add that Luongo’s contract actually looks pretty decent vs Booth’s. At least Roberto contributes while he’s earning “his” kings ransom.

  71. Traktor says:

    Asset management is nice but when you have a chance to win the cup and move one of your only trading chips for someone that might help 2 years from now it is called dumb management.

    Until Edmonton waives Omark and gets nothing in return it seems pretty dumb to point out the lack of return. For all we know Tambellini could trade him at the draft for Vancouver’s 1st.

  72. cabbiesmacker says:

    Traktor:
    Asset management is nice but when you have a chance to win the cup and move one of your only trading chips for someone that might help 2 years from now it is called dumb management.

    Especially when the deal was more than likely there “after” the season wrapped as well.

  73. DSF says:

    Traktor:
    Asset management is nice but when you have a chance to win the cup and move one of your only trading chips for someone that might help 2 years from now it is called dumb management.

    Until Edmonton waives Omark and gets nothing in return it seems pretty dumb to point out the lack of return. For all we know Tambellini could trade him at the draft for Vancouver’s 1st.

    Right,

  74. VOR says:

    DSF,

    “DD has played more games…almost all of them poorly. His .910 save percentage is a testament to that.

    “There’s an awful long way between a career .910 and a career .928.” DSF.

    “Well …. I’m not sure that I agree with you a hundred percent on your policework there, Lou.” Marge Gunderson.

    If Schneider ever sustained that for a career he would be #1 all time. Dubnyk would be # 25 all time if he sustained. All time, ever. Yup Dubnyk would fall right between Mr. Turco and Mr. Roy two truly horrifcally bad goaltenders. So I guess there is 24 places on the all time SV% leader board between the two.

    Apparently, according to you some 2300 NHL goaltenders have played almost all of their games poorly.

    Schneider is in the top 5 in SV% over the last two years combined in 50 starts including second this year which is stunning. Quietly Dubnyk is in the top twenty in SV% in 72 starts.

    Dubnyk has had an above NHL average SV% two years in a row one of only 17 goaltenders to accomplish that (Schneider of course is another) while playing in front of a terrible defence and facing a very large number of shots.

    Want to know somebody else who has a .910 SV% after 101 games in the NHL – Tim Thomas. Want another? Jonathon Quick. I see a pattern here. Next year Oilers Vancouver in the playoffs Dubnyk stones them. Yet another season of brilliance destroyed by some bumpkin goaltender who was only .910 after 101 games in the NHL.

  75. hags9k says:

    What does stop trampling the kids underfoot? This season Edmonton’s splendid powerplay knocked some teams back when they paid in full for their shenanigans.

    LT I think the world of your opinion but this one is off. This makes me appreciate Oiler management and we all know that is saying something. You can’t rely on a powerplay to discourage teams’ bombing your skill. You need killers. Hockey is still hockey.

  76. VOR says:

    LT,

    I think you got something else wrong as well. You don’t have to be on the ice to protect a skilled young player. On March 29, 1981 Paul Baxter was gooning Gterzky up and followed him back to the Oilers bench screaming at him. Bad mistake. Semenko one punched him from the bench and knocked him cold.

  77. edwards_daddy says:

    “However, I am probably the only working scientist who posts here.”

    As a senior geophysicist who used to work in the spectroscopy department of a nuclear fusion research plant, and has had papers published in both nuclear and geophysical fields, I think Ben Goldacre is the biggest bag of hot air you’ll ever read, as blinkered in his slaving worship of science as those he slags off, and not fit to be mentioned in the same post as the great Thomas Kuhn.

    Just my opinion.

  78. gogliano says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Gillis on trading Hodgson(TSN)

    Gillis also stated that leading up to the deadline, the club increased Hodgson’s minutes in order to increase his trade value.


    “We built him into something we could move,” Gillis stated. “There were six young players that I would have traded him for if any of them were ever made available. One was made available at the trade deadline and it was Zack

    Indeed. Kassian was a force in the playoffs.

    And those 3 points in the regular season were all HUGE points. I mean, he was on a 14 points per season pace.

    Way better than the return the Oilers got when they traded Linus Omark.

  79. gogliano says:

    Player X season totals:

    4 G: 6 A: 10 points

    Player Y season totals:

    27G; 26 A; 53 points

    Both ’91 birthdays. One of them is Zack Kassian. The other is an Edmonton Oiler.

    Great trade, Gillis.

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