RYAN JONES 11-12 OVER AND OVER AGAIN

Ryan Jones is not a favorite of this blog, but for the second year in a row delivered on expectations and then added a few more goals for good measure. Is he a good NHL player?

Ryan Jones 10-11
  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.38 (7th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 3.63 (4th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 10th toughest faced among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: 10th best available teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: -11.1 (worst among regular forwards)
  • Zone Start: 49.7% (8th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 49.4% (11th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 126/14.3% (2nd among F’s)
  • Boxcars: 81gp, 18-7-25
  • Plus Minus: -5 on a team that was -52
Ryan Jones 11-12
  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.46 (tied for 7th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 5.40 (3rd among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 7th toughest faced among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: tied for 8th best available teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: -2.9 (9th best among regular forwards)
  • Zone Start: 44.6% (3rd toughest, 12th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 48.6% (9th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 137/12.4% (4th among F’s >100shots)
  • Boxcars: 79, 17-16-33
  • Plus Minus: -7 on a team that was -26
  1. What do these numbers tell us? Although his 5×5/60 tells us he’s not going to be a top 6 option on a good team, Jones had a good shooting percentage (aided by 2 ENG’s) and scored 17 with a tough zone start. That has value. His CorsiRel also tells us that he isn’t a top 6 option of note, but he performed well 5×4 and for the second season in a row delivered beyond expectations. Overall, a solid season for Ryan Jones.
  2. How could these numbers be better? Jones is getting max out of his offensive ability. I don’t think we can quibble too much about the CorsiRel either, Jones does not have the reputation for being a strong 2-way player so his number is probably (like his offense) as good as it gets this season. I don’t think they’re going to win anything with him in a feature role, but the Oilers know that I’m sure. He scored 12 goals in his first 37 games, 5 after that. You’d like more consistency from a scorer who is being counted on (which is not the case now).
  3. This must kill you. Not at all. My opinion of him as a player hasn’t changed. He’s an expansion talent, replacement level type player. Ryan Jones looks like he’s working like a bugger and that gets noticed. He has a good shooting percentage and is no doubt a terrific teammate so he’s going to get a chance. And in the case of his time in Edmonton Jones took advantage, putting together two good seasons and getting a contract from the club. Good for him, hope he shoots lights out in 12-13 and the Oilers trade him for a 2nd rd pick.
  4. So, what do you like about him? We have a better idea about his shooting percentage (good) and his attention to detail away from the puck (not good). He has some interesting things, like this metric.
  5. So, he’s now a favorite? No. Jones doesn’t do enough things to be extremely useful yet he takes up a roster spot and makes the coaching options less bountiful. He needs to be Pisani but he is not.
  6. Why can’t he be Ryan Jones? Because Ryan Jones is a scorer and the Oilers keep grabbing 1st overall picks for that role.
  7. Oh.
  8. He scored 17 goals from the third line. Well, he scored 17 goals but wasn’t always on the 3line. Jones played with some pretty good linemates but the point I’m making is that he doesn’t have a wide range of skills. Empty netters, pp tap-ins, don’t look too close it’ll take the bloom off the rose.
  9. How much did he play? Jones was 8th at EVs among regular forwards with 12:06 a game. He was 2nd in SH TOI with 2:28 and only 10th in PP with 51 seconds a game.
  10. Let’s break it down. How did it look at evens? Well he was 201st overall at 5×5/60 for F’s playing 40 or more games. That puts him as the 6th or 7th best forward on an average team. Which is about where he is on the Oilers.
  11. Who are the six forwards who you regard as better? I’d pick RNH, Hall, Eberle, Hemsky, Smyth, Gagner, Horcoff. That’s 7.
  12. Horcoff? HORCOFF? Sure. I would include Paajarvi and Omark but they didn’t have the season to show what they could do. Anyway, he’s solidly in the top 9 on the current roster.
  13. Okay, PP. A nice number on the 2nd PP, he is clearly not the top option but when he was given a chance Jones delivered nicely. I think that’s a good thing, but it’s also a sign that this team doesn’t have enough depth.
  14. He scored 17 goals. You keep saying that. If this were an expansion year maybe he’d get 25 for Seattle. Still wouldn’t make him a good option for a serious contender.
  15. He played a lot on the PK. Sure did, 2.5 minutes is a regular in the PK cycle. He was behind only Horcoff in minutes per game shorthanded this season.
  16. And you STILL don’t like him? I never said I didn’t like him, he appears to be a great guy based on what we hear.
  17. You know what I mean–as a player. I just don’t see how he fits. Oilers have Hall, Eberle, Smyth, Hemsky, Yakupov soon and those are the skill wingers. Now you need a 2-way Pisani wrench and the Oilers have Jones, Eager and some kids who might turn into something. Who does the heavy work with Horcoff, Belanger and probably Smyth? Pisani 2.0, but that isn’t Jones and Jones is in the Pisani slot.
  18. Will they trade him? My guess is that Eager, Hordichuk and Omark won’t be back, leaving the available wingers (Hall, Eberle, Smyth, Hemsky, Yakupov, Jones, Hartikainen, Paajarvi, goon) to fight it out.
  19. Does Jones get buried? No. He’ll go into camp as a regular. Might see some time with Smyth and Horcoff on the 3rd line, maybe Belanger too.
  20. You’d prefer Pisani 2.0? Over and over again.
  • NHL Prediction for 11-12: 64, 5-11-16 (.250)
  • Actual 2011: 79, 17-16-33 (.418)

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104 Responses to "RYAN JONES 11-12 OVER AND OVER AGAIN"

  1. Chris Hext---formerly EasyOil--- says:

    Love Jones, despite his many shortcomings.

    Loved Pisani even more. Beauty player. Fernando c.2006 would really do wonders for this team.

  2. bookje says:

    RYAN JONES IS THE BEST PLAYER TO EVER WEAR THE OILERS JERSEY.!!! WHY DO YOU HATE HIM SO MUCH???

  3. Bos8 says:

    I especially like the little tap hits, he must have a counter in his pocket. “Coach said I had to hit, there’s one and two.”

  4. regwald says:

    After watching the all the in your face hockey and hitting and after the whistle scrums, you realize that players like Jones would need to step outside their comfort zone in a playoff game to match the intensity we have seen so far in round one.

    How may coke machines do you think we need to draft this summer to offset this threat ? Especially with the consensus #1 being another small forward.

  5. godot10 says:

    Off-Topic:

    The chickens are a-coming home to roost from the NHL throwing away the whistle, and lightening the suspensions in the second half of the season.

    Looks like genius GM status is going to have to be rescinded for Mike Gillis and Ray Shero.

    MacT coaching the Canucks next year. Oh dear.

  6. Bos8 says:

    godot10: Off-Topic:The chickens are a-coming home to roost from the NHL throwing away the whistle, and lightening the suspensions in the second half of the season.Looks like genius GM status is going to have to be rescinded for Mike Gillis and Ray Shero. MacT coaching the Canucks next year. Oh dear.

    They’re now in an untenable position. What does it serve to lose a top player like Coutourier to head hunting?

    It’s always been bull to have judgement calls of penalties according to score and situation. No other sport does that.

  7. Traktor says:

    You forgot to list your prediction and actual performance. I think your prediction was 5 goals or something like that.

  8. rickithebear says:

    Bos8: No other sport does that.

    Ah! any sport with refs that get to interpret fouls/ penalties.

  9. Traktor says:

    NHL players with 100 hits, 60 blocked shots, 45 takeaways

    Ryan Jones
    Ryan Callahan
    David Backes
    RJ Umberger
    Brooks Laich

    Jones obviously has a limited range of skills. We should get rid of him for Omark.

  10. Traktor says:

    godot10:
    Off-Topic:

    MacT coaching the Canucks next year.Oh dear.

    I hope so. I would take Alain Vigneault in a second.

    He has a great CHL record, Jack Adams finalist with Montreal, Jack Adams winner and finalist with Vancouver.

    I know its easy to say that any coach could have success with Vancouver but the year he took over the Sedin’s hadn’t even score at a PPG yet. Kesler has 23 points and Burrows had 12 points. Bieksa was a tweener.

    Vigneault helped develop a ton of players.

  11. Ribs says:

    I can see it now… Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle sitting on the bench the entire game because Vigneault has turned them into Power Play-Only players.

  12. DSF says:

    Traktor: I hope so. I would take Alain Vigneault in a second.

    He has a great CHL record, Jack Adams finalist with Montreal, Jack Adams winner and finalist with Vancouver.

    I know its easy to say that any coach could have success with Vancouver but the year he took over the Sedin’s hadn’t even score at a PPG yet.Kesler has 23 points and Burrows had 12 points. Bieksa was a tweener.

    Vigneault helped develop a ton of players.

    He would most likely end up in Montreal.

  13. Ribs says:

    When the bingo balls fell and the 29th-place Edmonton Oilers won last week’s NHL Draft Lottery to pick first in the draft for the third consecutive year, Yakupov said he was ecstatic.

    Yes! I don’t have to play for Columbus!

  14. Bos8 says:

    Yep, Vigneault is a great coach. Both Sedins taken out by illegal hits. Now, go compete.

    Bloody, stupid bush league.

  15. slopitch says:

    Ryan Jones one of a few guys who could dish back in a playoff series. I think we’re a playoff team next year but looking at the compete and intensity in this years playoffs, we need about 4 grinders to be the team not complaining constantly. Eager and Jones might be ok on the 4th line but LT is right. We need 2 Pisani 2.0′s. I really look forward to Hall in the playoffs. Man its gonna be fun.

  16. fuzzy muppet says:

    Bos8,

    Are you serious? Daniels hit was dirty, Henrik’s was not.

  17. Bos8 says:

    Are you serious? Daniels hit was dirty, Henrik’s was not.

    ——————————-
    I thought it was a late hit. Maybe I misremember. ” I was just finishing my check”.

  18. Ducey says:

    Bos8:

    Yep, Vigneault is a great coach. Both Sedins taken out by illegal hits. Now, go compete.

    Bloody, stupid bush league.

    1) Henry was there for games 1 and 2 and only missed a bit of game 3;
    2) The hit by Brown was clean. Despite the cheerleading on CBC, there was no direct contact to the head.
    3) What goes around, comes around. The Canucks have the cheapest team in hockey. When you go around diving, chirping, and sticking people in order to get them to take a retaliation penalty, don’t be surprised when someone retaliates upside your head.

    I do agree though the way the NHL has managed penalties this year is bizarre to the point of incompetence. At the beginning of the year the tiniest one handed hook would get a penalty, in the last 3rd of the season they did not penalize anything, and now all hell has broken loose. No body knows what is, or is not, a penalty.

    The attempts to control fighting have led to more serious cheap shots. Instead of worrying about whether Semenko will murder you or one of your team mates next shift, you take your cheap shot and then have a phone call with Shanahan. Big deal. Maybe you get a fine or if you are expendable, you get a suspension of a game or three.

    Its not working and won’t.

    And its why the Oilers need to get bigger and tougher if they want to win a Cup.

  19. Bar_Qu says:

    Certainly, Tambellini, president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe and head scout Stu MacGregor will want to look into Yakupov’s eyes when he says the words.

    As he speaks in Russian, through an interpreter.

    Yeah, that face-to-face thing never fails. *facepalm*

    Not saying Yakupov isn’t the guy, but seriously, sometimes it is just maddening to hear this kind of flimsy reporting.

    Bos8,

    Mackenzie tweeted last night the hit on H. Sedin was 0.3 seconds after he played the puck. Everyone on the ‘Nucks and doing the reporting who isn’t a rabid fan of the team said the hit was clean. The problem is Dustin Brown generally makes it easy to assume the worst of what he does.

    OTOH, the nice thing is that if Edler keeps playing as well as he does this round, he may be available for a song this summer. Edmonton could have him for Omark straight up! *not entirely serious*

  20. Bos8 says:

    I’m sorry. Brown has been a cheap shot artist, forever. Hitting from behind, leading with an elbow is a long way from a clean hit. It’s a takeout. The Smyd hit was a no penalty, as well. Now tell me that was a clean hit. To me, that’s deliberate intent to injure, plain and simple.

  21. Ducey says:

    Certainly, Tambellini, president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe and head scout Stu MacGregor will want to look into Yakupov’s eyes when he says the words.

    As he speaks in Russian, through an interpreter.

    Yeah, that face-to-face thing never fails. *facepalm*

    Jones was on the radio this morning and said he had a long conversation with him. No interpreter. He has been in Sarnia for 2 years and speaks English.

  22. rich says:

    @ Ducey,

    Great points on the way penalties have been managed.

    The officiating has been very inconsistent this season. I don’t think it’s been as much as “what’s being called” as much as the fact that in the last third of the season – nothing was being called and it’s creating chaos.

    We can look for all kinds of reasons – a lot of new refs (as many vets have retired in the last few years), the players lack of respect for each other, coaches telling guys that they have to do in order to stay in the lineup, but it’s a big issue.

    And your last comment is very good. Come playoffs when space disappears and the hitting is more physical, how are the Oilers little guys going to hold up?

  23. pboy says:

    DSF: He would most likely end up in Montreal.

    You think so?

    His first time there didn’t go so well and he’s got a great team to coach right now, so I don’t see why he would want to leave. Gillis is pretty sharp and I can’t imagine he would fire a coach who has led his team to two straight President’s trophies.

    Montreal needs to stop trying to find the best french speaking coach and concentrate on finding the best coach available.

  24. Ribs says:

    Bar_Qu: Certainly, Tambellini, president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe and head scout Stu MacGregor will want to look into Yakupov’s eyes when he says the words.
    As he speaks in Russian, through an interpreter.

    I just hope they aren’t checking for Glow in his eyes.

  25. Bar_Qu says:

    Ducey,

    Did not realise that, my mistake.

    However, it doesn’t change the fact Yakupov will say all the right things and looking in his eyes makes little or no difference. Willis did a post on how easily people are fooled by face-to-face unscripted interviews, since they only see what they are looking for. It doesn’t surprise me that Tambellini et al would have absolute faith in that method though.

  26. Bos8 says:

    And its why the Oilers need to get bigger and tougher if they want to win a Cup.

    ——————-

    That’s why I find the Yakupov band wagon bizarre. That would make it three deep in small, skilled RW and nothing down the middle. It’s like signing Belanger. Another small forward that can be manhandled. There;s a hell of a lot more to rating hockey players than points.

    If Galchenyuk’s knee is good, I go with him as the most complete player and screw the politics. The same injury hasn’t slowed down Malkin.

  27. FPB94 says:

    Basketball somewhat does that. But flagrant fouls get called like almost instantly.

    They should learn. Have the hardline. Suspend, suspend, suspend.

    Do it like it’s your life.

  28. DSF says:

    pboy: You think so?

    His first time there didn’t go so well and he’s got a great team to coach right now, so I don’t see why he would want to leave. Gillis is pretty sharp and I can’t imagine he would fire a coach who has led his team to two straight President’s trophies.

    Montreal needs to stop trying to find the best french speaking coach and concentrate on finding the best coach available.

    Yeah, I think it’s possible.

    While I don’t think he has done a poor job by any means, someone is going to have to take the fall for the Canucks failure.

    You could argue Newell Brown, who coaches the Canucks’ PP should take the hit because their PP is 0/13 in the series and was dreadful down the stretch, but, ultimately the head coach wears the horns.

    Should be a very interesting offseason for them with a decision to be made on Schneider.

    They still need a top 6 winger IMO.

    Schneider for Kessel (plus parts) is one intriguing possibility.

  29. HeavySig says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Certainly, Tambellini, president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe and head scout Stu MacGregor will want to look into Yakupov’s eyes when he says the words.

    As he speaks in Russian, through an interpreter.

    And the member of the Hockey Hall of Fame says to trust him on this.

    “I know him, and he’s going to be fine,” said Larionov. “He speaks English now. Nail could have gone the KHL route and made some money, but he took a different path. He went to Sarnia two years ago. He likes the NHL style of game.

  30. Ducey says:

    Bar_Qu: Ducey, Did not realise that, my mistake.However, it doesn’t change the fact Yakupov will say all the right things and looking in his eyes makes little or no difference. Willis did a post on how easily people are fooled by face-to-face unscripted interviews, since they only see what they are looking for. It doesn’t surprise me that Tambellini et al would have absolute faith in that method though.

    The faith would be based largely on the fact he is the consensus #1 in the scouting community. Plus I expect they will talk with his coaches, people in Sarnia etc.

    But the interview is important. Would you hire some hotshot based only on grades, or would you want to interview them?

  31. DSF says:

    Craig Button’s updated Top 60.

    Ryan Murray @ 12

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

  32. fuzzy muppet says:

    Bos8:
    And its why the Oilers need to get bigger and tougher if they want to win a Cup.

    ——————-

    That’s why I find the Yakupov band wagon bizarre.That would make it three deep in small, skilled RW and nothing down the middle.It’s like signing Belanger.Another small forward that can be manhandled.There;s a hell of a lot more to rating hockey players than points.

    If Galchenyuk’s knee is good, I go with him as the most complete player and screw the politics.The same injury hasn’t slowed down Malkin.

    I am concerned about the Oilers size down the middle having to match up with Keslers/Getzlaffs/Kopitars and the like in the West, but this fascination with having bigger players is completely over-blown.

    Philly is punishing the penguins. If you actually LOOK at their roster, they aren’t that big. SImmonds, Hartnell, Jagr(not exactly a physical punisher) Couterier are big. In fact most of their bigger guys are all hurt (Van Reimsdyk, Sestito, Laperrriere, Betts)

    Briere, Giroux, Wellwood, Talbot, Rinaldo and Read are all under 6′ 0″. What they are, is WILLING to punish the other team. The Oilers, outside of Andy Sutton, have NO ONE willing to punish the other team on a regular basis.

    Yakupov, though short, is built like a tank and is WILLING to hammer guys. He will be fine.

    Nastiness is a mindset, not a physical attribute.

  33. FPB94 says:

    DSF: Craig Button doesn’t know shit about defensemen. As proves his 12 years of wasting picks and getting Richard Matvichuk out of it.

    So i’d suggest hist list is irrelevant since this is a D-heavy draft.

  34. oilersfan says:

    Maybe Gillis isnt that smart trading a guaranteed by DSF 30 goal scorer in Hodgson for a guy who played 3 minutes last night in a must win game against a bigger team?

    Neither Gillis nor DSF are always right.

    Who knew?

  35. pboy says:

    oilersfan: Maybe Gillis isnt that smart trading a guaranteed by DSF 30 goal scorer in Hodgson for a guy who played 3 minutes last night in a must win game against a bigger team?Neither Gillis nor DSF are always right.Who knew?

    How dare you?

  36. FPB94 says:

    Told you Kassian sucked.

  37. Bos8 says:

    Nastiness is a mindset, not a physical attribute.

    ———————————
    I have nothing against Yakupov. He’s a great fit for a team strong down the middle. But unless Hall goes center the OIlers become an even more unbalanced team.

    Small joke – RNH tripped on the blueline and hurt his shoulder.

    Watching this out of control mayhem that passes as playoffs doesn’t bode well for the Oilers finesse.

  38. Bar_Qu says:

    Ducey,

    I might interview someone (not running a business or being in charge of hiring, I can only speculate) but I don’t know that free-style interviews are the best format. Some people have charisma and can charm their way through an interview but may be a total waste of space as an employee, or similarly a person may be a lousy interview but a great worker (I fall into the latter category, btw).

    I am bolstered in this view by what Willis wrote over at the COH, where he points out near the bottom Research shows that an aptitude test predicts performance just as well as a structured interview.

    I dunno. Based on what I’ve seen and read of the guy, I don’t know that an unstructured interview with ST is going to yield the most insightful result. Please note, I am in no way arguing Yakupov is not the best choice for the No 1 pick. I think he is and the Oilers should take him in every scenario short of a Weber+ or Suter+ trade, even then it would require some hard thinking. I just find it hilarious that the final confirmation is looking in his eyes as he answers a question about how much he wants to win. As though he were going to shrug and say “I tink it is gud idea. I try to win, much as possible.”

  39. juststoppingby says:

    LT, could Tobias Rieder be The Next Pisani? Thoughts? …. Strong on the PK with this year’s goals/points showing in the range of interest.

  40. Bos8 says:

    TSN should be embarassed by those Button rankings. It’s a shill. Murray dragged a terrible team into the playoffs and then was the offense in the one round and dropped in the rankings?

    Samuelsson is 57?

    57. Henrik Samuelsson – Edmonton (WHL) 2/7/94 RW R 6’2/195 28 7 16 23 +18

    (Spits)

  41. FPB94 says:

    BOS: You talking about the guys who hired Milbury and Mcguire right?

    They lost all creds a long time ago.

  42. godot10 says:

    Size and physicality is not something that can be solved with one draft pick or over one summer.

    The only thing that should matter for the #1 overall pick is to make sure you get the best player. If you trade it, you have to be filling an area of extreme need with an elite talent. i.e. Ekman-Larsson yes…a trade down for #5 and Schenn, no.

    The size and physicality problem can be solved over time as Smyth, Belanger, Horcoff, Hemsky, Jones, Gagner are eventually replaced.

    The last thing you worry about is Yakupov’s size. His skills are not duplicated in Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, and Hall.

    On the issue of size and defensemen. I think the Garrison boosters are right….I’m now on the Garrison rather than Wideman camp to pursue as a UFA (assuming that there is no way Suter would come) . Whitney’s contract only has one year left. The Oilers can be competitive in bidding for Garrison.

  43. Captain Obvious says:

    The playoffs may have reached a tipping point. I love the speed, the intensity, and the hitting. I also don’t mind the fighting. I hate, however, the cheap shots, the attempts to injure, and the bullying/intimidating after the whistle. Most of all, I hate the capriciousness of the decisions. I want the best players and team to have the best chance to win but refusing to interfere in the game means that the best cheaters win. It sullies the competition.

    The NHL needs to own this since it is their fault. It’s pretty simple. The referees and the NHL are unwilling to enforce the rules which necessarily and inherently leads to frontier justice. This stems from last season when the Bruins were allowed to bully their way to a Stanley Cup by referees who refused to call penalties. The exclamation point was then not suspending Weber. Now the cat is out of the box but there is no way to put it back in without engaging in capricious justice.

    For instance in the Senators–Rangers series. I hate what Boyle did to Karlson. Totally bushleague, has nothing to do with hockey, and provides no entertainment value. If the refs had acted as impartial and just arbiters they would have penalized Boyle, the Sens would have had a two man advantage, Boyle would have been “undisciplined” and nothing would have escalated. Instead they abdicated their responsibility.

    By contrast, I have no problem with Carkner jumping on Boyle. The signal had been sent by the league that they weren’t interested in enforcing the rules. Vigilantism will always emerge in the absence of law. Moreover in the abscence of law vigilantism is always right. The problem isn’t trying to get rid of fighting. The problem is a cowardly refusal to enforce the rules.

    What the NHL needs is the rule of law but they don’t understand the concept. They want to interfere as little as possible in the outcome of the contest but they don’t understand is that their policy of non-interference creates the context within which the contest is held. In this case doing nothing is doing something.

    Neal will be an interesting test case. He should be suspended for the rest of the series. If he was that would cool everything right out and justice would be served.

    So I’m torn. The games have been amazing but that is despite the NHL’s disgraceful handling of discipline.

  44. Bos8 says:

    godot10: Size and physicality is not something that can be solved with one draft pick or over one summer.The only thing that should matter for the #1 overall pick is to make sure you get the best player. If you trade it, you have to be filling an area of extreme need with an elite talent. i.e. Ekman-Larsson yes…a trade down for #5 and Schenn, no.The size and physicality problem can be solved over time as Smyth, Belanger, Horcoff, Hemsky, Jones, Gagner are eventually replaced.The last thing you worry about is Yakupov’s size. His skills are not duplicated in Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, and Hall. On the issue of size and defensemen. I think the Garrison boosters are right….I’m now on the Garrison rather than Wideman camp to pursue as a UFA (assuming that there is no way Suter would come) . Whitney’s contract only has one year left. The Oilers can be competitive in bidding for Garrison.

    You’re talking about six players. Replace them with what? Gagner is the only one with trade value. I see Reider as essentially another Yakupov who also kills penalties.

  45. Dipstick says:

    Bos8:
    TSN should be embarassed by those Button rankings.It’s a shill.Murray dragged a terrible team into the playoffs and then was the offense in the one round and dropped in the rankings?

    Samuelsson is 57?

    57. Henrik Samuelsson – Edmonton (WHL) 2/7/94 RW R 6’2/195 28 7 16 23 +18

    (Spits)

    Samuelsson has been badly underrated by all of the lists that I have seen. He should be around 30. CSS has him in the 70s. Keep it quiet. The Oilers could get a deal on a later pick.

  46. ashley says:

    The size thing again. If we think size is a problem, it can easily be addressed at some point. This club has all kinds of valuable assets in the system to make a deal some of which aren’t in the NHL, but are projecting well on that path. Maybe a 3 for 1 as LT suggests.

    Can you imagine passing on Nail? I reread that article. We don’t want to play against this guy. He’s got skill, speed, agility, and attitude. The games I’ve seen him play he is tenacious with the puck, yet creative in the open ice and can flat out fly. It could be considered as much a defensive move than anything else (ie so we don’t have to play against him).

    This is a gift from the heavens. I don’t care if the Oilers pick Coke machines with their other 8 picks in the draft (well I do a little actually, because size is overemphasized in the draft), but they should take Nail. The lottery win has made it so easy for once. There should be almost no debate this year.

    Half of BOS nastiness comes from Marchand. How big is he again?

    Here’s a classic from last year:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEh53OWz0jU

    Marchand should be picking on someone his own size.

  47. Bos8 says:

    Dipstick: Samuelsson has been badly underrated by all of the lists that I have seen. He should be around 30. CSS has him in the 70s. Keep it quiet. The Oilers could get a deal on a later pick.

    From your lips to God’s ears. He’s the perfect late first, early second pick. Came to a stacked team and put up a +18 in 28 games. That’s total domination. And he’s nasty.

    Hope he lasts till the Oilers 2nd.

  48. edwards_daddy says:

    I think Jones would look good on a 4th line with Belanger and Eager – I would put that over the boards against 2/3rd line forwards. Definately on a par or with Clifford-Frase-Nolan or Weise-Malholtra-Kassian from last night and capable of some mid-range lifting. Problem is all three are paid twice as much as 4th liners should be.
    Hall-Gagner-Yak
    PRV-Nuge-Ebs
    Smyth-Captain-Hemsky
    as a top nine, doesn’t look too bad – they can then spend the summer sorting out the Crime in the City that is the Defence .

    Fuzzy Muppet has it right about getting bigger – Philly has a similar size/aged team, they just have a coach who has them playing on the physical edge. Also have the feeling that by the time the Oilers traded some of their speed and skill for size, the powers that be will have added 10 feet onto the width of the ice and slapped life bans on cheap-shot artists.

  49. Bos8 says:

    Marchand should be picking on someone his own size.

    ———————————–

    And that’s the crap that the NHL has turned to. I’m not a big Sedins fan but that is horse shit. Playoffs or not.

  50. Bos8 says:

    Yep, pay Hemsky five mil to push Horcoff’s dragging ass around the ice, have you no empathy?

  51. edwards_daddy says:

    Also Vasilevski below Subban? Really???
    If the Russian brick wall is still there at 32 we should run out of Pittsburgh there and then with a comrade under each arm and declare the rest of the draft void because we’ve just won it all hands down.

  52. Ducey says:

    Research shows that an aptitude test predicts performance just as well as a structured interview.

    Its not an either/ or. You ask him the questions, get to know him, and most likely draft him. If he says a bunch of idiotic stuff, you think twice. We are not talking ability to play here. Nail has passed that test, but if he is so weird or shy or lacks confidence so that the pressure of being a number 1 overall in a Canadian market will prevent him from reaching his potential, you might have a problem.

    You’re talking about six players. Replace them with what? Gagner is the only one with trade value. I see Reider as essentially another Yakupov who also kills penalties.

    You take the best players, see how they develop. If you have to move one or two to win a Cup, you do that, but we are long ways away from that. Eberle is worth a hell of a lot more now than he was as a 22nd pick and I expect Hall and Nuge will be worth quite a bit in 2 years. Let them play, get some good support players and make a more informed judgement once you go thru a playoff or two. Hall, Nuge, MPS and Yukupov might all be plenty physical in 3 years. Maybe not.

    There is no rush to give up key assets to go get a couple of veteran power forwards when most of the team is still in diapers.

    Heck, the way the NHL makes up the rules, in three years physical contact could be ruled out or they could be on bigger ice.

  53. hunter1909 says:

    Compared to Shawn Horcoff, Jones is Guy Lafleur from the blue line in.

    Poor Canucks, for a change seems my prediction came true; everyone lining up to knock their collective block off(but never did i expect the refs tacit approval lol).

    POINT OF THIS POST: We’re hearing the Nail Yakupov loves the idea of being drafted here, and instead of the entire blog being set ablaze with this stunning news, instead Lowetide goes on about Ryan Jones??

  54. eidy says:

    murray at 12 and grigorenko at 14. craig, craig, craig……

  55. Bos8 says:

    I’m all about the baseball adage – Strong up the middle. Normally I’d agree about “Best Player” but stockpiling to strength on wing is just wrong. Where they gonna play?. Maximize your assets. Hockey is about two to tango and one is the center.

  56. edwards_daddy says:

    “We’re hearing the Nail Yakupov loves the idea of being drafted here, and instead of the entire blog being set ablaze with this stunning news”

    Considering that the Oilers pretty much hold his rights, all we are learning about the kid is that he hasn’t developed his inner Linus Omark yet. At least not in public.

  57. FPB94 says:

    I’d also be glad not to be in Columbus.

    What’s up with Ohio?

    Browns – Arguably the worst sports franchise since they won in the 60′s.
    Indians – Where to begin?
    Cavaliers – Lebron James
    Buckeyes – (No national championships)

    As for the physicality issue. Call me crazy but i don’t think you have to be. If you look at 10 last year’s champs they’re mostly very skilled teams. With the exeptions of Boston and Anaheim.

  58. DeadmanWaking says:

    Protein powder is finishing school *after* you’ve made enough noise to be taken seriously. Teams will be rethinking our toughness when Hordi is taking a regular shift protecting a five goal lead. Sandpaper is nice when you can afford to spend it. I’m sold on Nail. Soon we’ll have teams in our division dreaming about posting Pronger/Niedermayer on their match-up charts. Going deep into the second season is a problem for a future management cycle. First we have to get there.

  59. knighttown says:

    Captain Obvious:
    The playoffs may have reached a tipping point.I love the speed, the intensity, and the hitting.I also don’t mind the fighting.I hate, however, the cheap shots, the attempts to injure, and the bullying/intimidating after the whistle.Most of all, I hate the capriciousness of the decisions.I want the best players and team to have the best chance to win but refusing to interfere in the game means that the best cheaters win.It sullies the competition.

    The NHL needs to own this since it is their fault.It’s pretty simple.The referees and the NHL are unwilling to enforce the rules which necessarily and inherently leads to frontier justice.This stems from last season when the Bruins were allowed to bully their way to a Stanley Cup by referees who refused to call penalties.The exclamation point was then not suspending Weber.Now the cat is out of the box but there is no way to put it back in without engaging in capricious justice.

    For instance in the Senators–Rangers series.I hate what Boyle did to Karlson.Totally bushleague, has nothing to do with hockey, and provides no entertainment value.If the refs had acted as impartial and just arbiters they would have penalized Boyle, the Sens would have had a two man advantage, Boyle would have been “undisciplined” and nothing would have escalated.Instead they abdicated their responsibility.

    By contrast, I have no problem with Carkner jumping on Boyle.The signal had been sent by the league that they weren’t interested in enforcing the rules.Vigilantism will always emerge in the absence of law.Moreover in the abscence of law vigilantism is always right.The problem isn’t trying to get rid of fighting.The problem is a cowardly refusal to enforce the rules.

    What the NHL needs is the rule of law but they don’t understand the concept.They want to interfere as little as possible in the outcome of the contest but they don’t understand is that their policy of non-interference creates the context within which the contest is held.In this case doing nothing is doing something.

    Neal will be an interesting test case.He should be suspended for the rest of the series.If he was that would cool everything right out and justice would be served.

    So I’m torn.The games have been amazing but that is despite the NHL’s disgraceful handling of discipline.

    Fuck this is a good post.

    “Are you not entertained!!!!!!!”

    No one can turn their heads away from this Pittsburgh-Philly series but I’m quite glad the Oilers (or my kid for that matter) aren’t involved. Not to be dramatic but someone could die. Schenn takes a two-hander to the mouth and then Couturier takes an open ice hit when he isn’t anywhere near the puck. I’m hardly a Philly fan but I can feel my skin start to crawl with testosterone-itch.

    Crosby-Giroux fighting is the pinnancle of excitement but one of these teams whole next decade will be irreparably harmed if one haymaker sneaks onto the chins of the Glass Jaw Twins.

    Boyle on Karlsson leads to Carkner on Boyle which leads to Hagelin on Alfredsson. Does Daniel ever get to play another playoff game?

    And I hate to say it but those poor Canucks. They got robbed of a chance to compete for the Cup because the refs refused to call any of the Bruin muggings. Then Keith ends Daniel’s season and now Brown gets Henrik with the same hit as Smid. I’d love to see Daniel and Henrik pull a Mario and head over to Sweden for a year since its obvious the NHL isn’t interested in protecting them.

    Very pleased the Oilers missed out on this years blood bath. I expect the league will crack down again in the fall and the pendulum will move back towards fair play. And hopefully we aren’t short a Schenn, Couturier, Crosby, Giroux (Neal’s attempted head shot), Sedin, Sedin, Mike Smith, Alfie or Karlsson.

  60. cabbiesmacker says:

    Watched a bit of Game 6, 2010 SC finals last night on CBC. The Blackhawk’s 3rd line was Bolland centering Byfuglien and Versteeg. sigh. That gave Quenneville players such as Kopecky, Brouwer, Ladd, to plug and play from the second line to the 4th as needed, with Madden, Eager, Fraser, in reserve. Hmmmmm.

    Colour me happy happy when the Oilers can ice similar depth.

    No need for all star goaltending when you have the puck in your possession 60% of the time. Helps to have two studs for a top pairing I guess, and two half decents at 3 – 4, but 5-6 was crap. Byfuglien able to drop back and play D when he wasn’t busy turning Pronger into a helicopter was just a handy luxury.

    I hate you Stan Bowman.

  61. Ducey says:

    Not to be dramatic but someone could die.

    That would be overly dramatic. They have a better chance of dying in the bus back to the hotel or water skiing at their cabin in the summer.

    There is nothing that has happened in these playoffs that hasn’t happened many times before. In fact, its fairly tame compared to the good old days. Fogolin and Lowe were noted for their ability to break the wrists of oppossing forwards with a slash, Messier used to start each series by cross checking someone in the face at full speed, and the Oilers would dress Semenko, McClelland, Lumley, Hunter, et al, all at the same time. Concussions were part of the deal and treated by a beer and an aspirin. There used to line brawls, not these wrestling matches they have now.

    You must be a young’in. :)

    The difference now is that we are a lot more worried about concussions and the intigator has taken away the deterrence.

    Man, that sounded like Bob Stauffer…ugh

  62. Dipstick says:

    knighttown,

    Captain Obvious,

    I agree 100%. I have no problem with Giroux and Crosby fighting or any of the clean checks. What I can not abide with is the predatory illegal hits and cheap crap after the whistles. Is that hockey? I enjoy watching the skilled players. How long can we expect to enjoy watching them before they get seriously injured. Are we going to be subjected to watching WWE on skates?

  63. FPB94 says:

    Ducey: These guys were going in slow-mo compared to nowadays. The impacts have nothing to do with each other.

  64. Captain Obvious says:

    Ducey,

    Once again my friend you are wrong about something. This is your selective memory at work. Things like this have certainly happened before, especially the fights, but the frequency and intensity is at a new level.

    However, all of this is beside the point of whether it should be part of the game. I stopped watching during the dead puck era and one of the reasons besides the lack of goals was that teams like the Stars won by intentionally injuring their opponents.

    I love the hitting. I hate the slashes to the wrist, the cross checks to the face, the Marchand/Boyle punches to the head after the whistle, the elbows.

    You could have the hitting without the attempts to injure if you had officials with spine and a rational protocol that involved.

    1) High minimum punishments. Make suspensions in five game intervals for the regular season and three game intervals during the playoffs. One or two games is neither a punishment nor a deterrent. Five games for reckless play, 10 games (and up) for egregious attempt to injure.

    2) Apply the rules. Either the player is guilty or he is not. If it is bad enough to fine, it is bad enough to suspend. Weber should have been suspended. That’s open and shut.

    3) Punish the actions not the consequences. An attempt to injure is an attempt to injure. Whether the player was in fact injured is irrelevant. That’s why it is called “attempt” to injure.

    If you did this you’d get punishments something like:

    Keith 10 games
    Weber 3 playoff games
    Burns 3 playoff games
    Hagelin 6 playoff games
    Neal 9 playoff games
    Asham 3 playoff games
    Carkner 3 playoff games
    .
    Simple. If you are recklessly violent you get a level one punishment. If you engage in an egregious attempt to injure you get a level two punishment. No more of this Shanahan parsing of the event that only adds to a sense of arbitrary and uneven enforcement.

    The other thing I would do was instruct the refs to assign blame during scrums and avoid offsetting penalties if at all possible by calling the instigator and not calling the retaliatory infraction.

    If you did these two things the hockey would be just as fast and intense (because its the players that bring this) while being clean and fair.

  65. FPB94 says:

    There’s already some casualties.

    Ask how Marc Savard’s feeling these days.

  66. VOR says:

    A recurrent theme these last few days is how the Oilers don’t look like these playoff teams, that we lack depth, size, and sandpaper.

    I get many of you want to make big flashy moves. But you don’t have to if all you want is playoff style truculence and grit, fighers who can play, and people who win puck battles we can do that on a shoestring budget.

    Don’t resign Hordichuk, Barker, Petrell or Rodney.

    Trade Omark and Peckham for whatever you can get. More about that later.

    Sign Daniel Winnick, Shane O’Brien, Steve Eminger, Bruno Gervais, Andre Deveaux, and Kyle Greentree.

    Greentree, RNH, Eberle
    Hall, Gagner, Yakupov
    Smyth, Horcoff, Hemsky
    Eager, Belanger, Jones
    Winnik, Deveaux

    Smid, Petry
    Schultz, O’Brien
    Whitney, Eminger
    Sutton, Gervais

    Dubnyk, Khabibulin

    Is it a great lineup? Of course not. But it is truculent, cheap, and a better base to wheel and deal from.

    Winnik plays very hard against good opposition and is a lefty who can play center. Greentree is a long shot but without injuries he’d be playing in the NHL right now and his injuries have largely been flukes (like this season’s forearm injury). This isn’t JFJ. Greentree is big, good offensively, and mean. Deveaux is the sleeper but his AHL career suggests he can probably fill a 4C job many nights and nobody in their right mind would drop their gloves with him.

    O’Brien has emerged as a pretty good 4D in Colorado and of course will also drop the gloves though he doesn’t want to be thought of as purely a goon. Eminger is a failed #1 that has developed into a decent depth dman hits and blocks shots and limits his mistakes. Gervais has played as high as top two and as low as bottom pairing in the NHL and held his own with often horrible zone starts.

    Now if you could figure out how to combine Peckham, Omark and a draft pick to get Kyle Beach out of Chicago (he has fallen a long way on their depth chart because of a very serious shoulder injury) you’d be on your way to a lineup that could play any way you want and be deep in guys with a screw loose.

    Does my suggested lineup make the playoffs? Who knows. But it pushes back a lot harder than the current Oilers and it does it for very little more money. At least Hall would know if somebody ran him there would be payback. Whoever was coaching would also have some real depth to work with.

  67. ashley says:

    Ah, I don’t know. It could be selective memory, but this is the way I remember playoff hockey since I was a kid watching with my dad in the mid-80′s. I remember asking him why Clark Gillies was allowed to hit the Oilers players in the face after the every whistle during the ’83 cup, and he said “That’s playoff hockey sweetheart”. It was ever thus.

    That Yakupov interview is a thing of beauty, if not a little sassy. He’ll have to trim his sideburns carefully or else find himself in the PB for half the season with Renney at the helm.

  68. FPB94 says:

    What i particularly loathe is people who command this while never having experienced it themselves.

    Considering so few hockey players are really tough, and a lot of fans didn’t play themselves.

    It’s fun. But it takes a toll that sometimes you’d wish you’d have back.

  69. Bos8 says:

    As to before

    When you hit, it hurt, especially if you had square shoulders. Now, with these shoulder pads, Woah

  70. Ducey says:

    Once again my friend you are wrong about something. This is your selective memory at work. Things like this have certainly happened before, especially the fights, but the frequency and intensity is at a new level.

    Really. How did the 84 -85 Oilers manage to get 474 PIM in 18 games? Thats 26.3 minutes per game. Kurri and Gretzky had 4 and 2 PIM’s each. That left a lot of PIM’s for everyone else.

    Don Jackson had 65 minutes in 9 games! McClelland had 75.

    And the Oilers were not a particularly rough team.

    The 85-86 Flames racked up 803 PIMs in 22 games. Thats 36.5 PIM per game.

    By comparison the big, bad Bruins of last year? 392 PIM in 25 games. That’s a measly 15.7 minutes a game.

  71. DBO says:

    Ducey,

    Well said Ducey. I think it’s the players missing games due to head injuries that makes these playoffs seem nastier. No way Alfredsson sits out a game in the 80′s, he’d be a pussy and have no heart in the eyes of his team. The emphasis on head injuries and concussions have changed both our perception of the violence and the end result, with players not willing to end up as vegetables in their 50′s (which i think is the right thing, just wasn’t the case 30- years ago).

  72. spoiler says:

    Ya big bunch of pussies.

    I blame the estrogen in the water from the hormones used to fatten cattle unnaturally fast.

    And solar flares.

    I haven’t seen anything yet which transcends some of the meaner battles back in the 70s and 80s. But, as others have mentioned, players now have Kevlar to use as a point of attack, average speed is faster, and the whole concussion issue provides a focus not previously there.

    Hockey is a violent game. It will be tough for the League to negotiate this minefield without blowing themselves up.

  73. raventalon40 says:

    I hope they don’t trade Eager. I actually think he’s a very good hockey player who happens to cast favourably as a goon. I might have saw him good but I really think he has the hands and conditioning to be the kind of guy you want on your team if it’s playoff bound. Plus the nastiness doesn’t hurt.

  74. Bos8 says:

    I still say that Vish was known for the viscous wrist chopper. Maybe he didn’t break it but you didn’t do much for a while.

  75. cabbiesmacker says:

    Bos8:
    As to before

    When you hit, it hurt, especially if you had square shoulders.Now, with these shoulder pads, Woah

    Actually a lot of the forwards in the NHL are using shoulder pads about half the size of just 10 years ago preferring the reduced weight and maneuverability they afford. Similar to pro football these days where many players have opted out of wearing kneepads or pull the pants up over the knee altogether. Pretty silly imo but if they think it makes them faster then wth?

    I think the biggest difference in your average NHL player in the league today vs days of yore is simply size, speed, and conditioning as well as the attention head shots get these days. There aren’t “more” concussions happening, just a lot more preventing players participating “with” them. As some have mentioned previously common therapy in days gone by was to sit a guy for a shift or two. If he could talk and count to three he was good to go.

    All this said the technology incorporated in hockey helmets since day one of their advent is abysmal but nobody seems that concerned.

  76. russ99 says:

    Watching the playoffs just proves how badly we need a real 3rd line.

    Jones is a nice bonus player on a non-contender, but he’s not good enough to break into the top 6 and not tough enough on D to fill the 3rd line on a playoff team. Maybe he can give us a Glencross-like offensive spark on the 4th line or as valuable cover for injuries.

    Belanger is a decent option for 3rd line center, but I’d prefer him centering the 4th unless skilled kids are breaking into the roster there.

  77. VOR says:

    cabbiesmacker

    Years ago I met this guy, Bill Carveth, who was hard at work on a hockey helmet that would prevent many head injuries. Then his name came up again on this blog near the end of the 09-10 season. If you enter William Carveth helmet in most search engines you can read some of his patents. He is actually from here in Edmonton.

  78. russ99 says:

    VOR,

    Great plan, but Beach? No way. I live in Chicago and know all about this guy.

    Kyle Beach is not good enough to break into this roster. Even if he were healthy, Hawks coach Quennevillle has no room for his nonsense. Funny how his luster evaporates once the scoring goes away playing against pros instead of the 18 year olds he used to intimidate.

    I’d prefer the Oilers go after veteran players for the 3rd line who have proved they can do more than goon it up.

  79. Jesse says:

    Bos8,

    How is that horseshit? I get that it’s not gentlemanly but I would not exactly call hockey a “gentleman’s game”. It’s not like Sedin was in any danger of suffering an injury from those annoying little jabs. Marchand was antagonizing without causing injury. I see nothing wrong with that.

  80. whale says:

    LT, I know this is off topic but do you think Jones will br traded at the deadline next year? I don’t see where he fits after next year.

  81. spoiler says:

    I don’t know what kind of stick Karlsson uses, but I’m pretty sure the shaft is from Taylor Made.

  82. Lowetide says:

    whale:
    LT, I know this is off topic but do you think Jones will br traded at the deadline next year? I don’t see where he fits after next year.

    The kids will run over him eventually, but he might make it to next summer and then you never know. He was part of the PK but for me they need a much better option for that role.

  83. VOR says:

    Before you all give up on the psycho that was Kyle Beach listen to his coach talk about him post injury.

    http://thethirdmanin.com/tag/kyle-beach/

    It sounds like the author of the article russ99 posted was right, Beach is beginning to mature. Re-read that article and ask yourself could the Oilers use a big man who gets under the other teams skin, can fight, goes to the hard areas and has a tremendous shot? That is how the author describes him and so does his AHL GM.

    My point was that it should be possible to create a very hard to play against roster without spending big bucks if only the Oilers really wanted to do so.

    I think in some ways the Oilers management reflects the fan base. Everybody wants flawless players with name recognition. It is too easy to be overly impressed by reputations and box cars and “character”. You can be blinded to opportunities right in front of you (Brodziak, Glencross)

    You can, as I tried to show above, improve the Oilers without mortgaging the future or spending a fortune if you will take flawed players. Beach is one of those. Deveaux is a project, Greentree is a flat out gamble, Winnick may never have the offense to go with the rest of his skill set, O’Brien has one year as a four D, Eminger has been regressing in recent years, and Gervais has very odd stats that could mean almost anything.

    If you want to find gold placer mining you have to process some serious sand. Or you could just buy your gold on the open market with out checking to see if it is iron pyrite. Glen Sather Version.1.0 versus Steve Tambellini Version (what Version are we on now?)

    I think the Oilers should go on gambling in this draft. Take Yakupov and if he goes back to Russia so be it. Grab Samuelsson and hope what we saw in his brief WHL career is real. If he falls far enough grab Jarrod Maidens and pray his injury isn’t career ending. Take a shot at Matej Beran and hope you can teach him to skate. Ignore conventional wisdom and seen him bad and start value shopping.

    Of course not every long shot will payoff. The trick is to keep the costs down and the turnover up until you assemble a team that features value players like Don Jackson or Jaroslav Pouzar as well as Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier.

    Beach may be a waste of time, energy and assets. On the other hand he might be the agitator we so badly need. If we can get him for a player with serious side burns and a kid who might be something someday I figure that is a decent gamble to take.

  84. delooper says:

    My recollection was Carveth’s helmet was too bulky. You get some added neck protection from the mechanism, but the height of the helmet could magnify the twisting force on the neck in some collisions.

  85. delooper says:

    “Carveth was trying to design a helmet that would prevent fracture of the cervical spine. He was motivated by a small run of spine fractures leading to paralysis resulting from a player being pushed/checked headlong into the boards. This has definitely taken a back seat to concussions – I haven’t heard of a cervical spine fracture/paralysis injury for a long time. Carveth’s helmet was partially developed and never tested.”

  86. Wolfie says:

    Bra and Panties says Renney won`t be back as head coach but will be offered a position in the organization…..

    Seems likely that he isn`t back as coach if they haven`t extended him yet.

  87. Ducey says:

    Wolfie,

    When was the last time he/she was right on anything?

  88. "Steve Smith" says:

    Ducey,

    I was actually just thinking that that’s the first falsifiable prediction she’s made in a while. Everything else has been “The Oilers are shopping X”, which may have been true or false, for all we know.

  89. Wolfie says:

    I agree with SS on this one. She hasn`t said anything for sure will or won`t happen. She`s mostly just given us speculation on who the Oilers have been interested in. She was dynamite on July 1 last year.

  90. spoiler says:

    Stick a fork in the Sharks.

  91. Lowetide says:

    renney being out strikes me as a sideways move unless they plan on elevating Nelson now and letting him grow with the team or they are certain someone of high quality is or will be available. I wonder about the guy coaching the Sharks tonight. Will he be back in Oakland?

  92. spoiler says:

    Lowetide:
    renney being out strikes me as a sideways move unless they plan on elevating Nelson now and letting him grow with the team or they are certain someone of high quality is or will be available. I wonder about the guy coaching the Sharks tonight. Will he be back in Oakland?

    Judging by the Shark’s performance over the past few years with the talent and experience they’ve had, does he really deserve another coaching job? I mean, probably he will get one, but considering the fact he’s done F all with some great horses in his stable, is this a guy you would want anywhere near your thoroughbreds?

    I wouldn’t.

  93. spoiler says:

    Meanwhile, the guy on the other bench was available during both of our last two coaching changes and didn’t even get a sniff.

  94. Bos8 says:

    Jesse: Bos8, How is that horseshit? I get that it’s not gentlemanly but I would not exactly call hockey a “gentleman’s game”. It’s not like Sedin was in any danger of suffering an injury from those annoying little jabs. Marchand was antagonizing without causing injury. I see nothing wrong with that.

    ——————————-
    I must be from a different age. As the story goes – you’ve got five feet of lumber, you’ve got to come through that first. My hs reference was to the refs. Failing that it’s chiclets time. That’s your star player who’s head is bobbing on the end of that glove.

    Like others I shut down hockey for years. It wasn’t hockey, it was slo mo. Then occasionally I’d watch a period. Couldn’t take more. Normally Hemsky would get smoked and the rest of the team would watch. I’d shut it down for a while again.

    Last year I got interested again, some pretty hockey. But the latest – Smyd got slammed from behind with intent and nada. Why wasn’t Brown lying on the ice? They were playing for something? Instead, Renney mouthed off. That’s beyond soft. Who’s got Smyd’s back? They have to wait for Marincin?

    Pardon me, that’s not performance.

  95. FastOil says:

    The more I consider it, the most value of a tough forward seems to be in creating his own space. Unless you can find another Lucic, can/do they protect linemates? Is Kassian helping the Canucks? If you want to protect your own forwards, the best way is to have mean (but of course good) defensemen. Play fair, but if your opponent starts things, play their talent hard in your D zone. You play nice, we play nice. Quid pro quo.

    Given any luck it seems that exists in the system now. Big enough, mean streak. Time will tell.

  96. rickithebear says:

    my boss came in to work today. We often joke about the broken bones and pieces we have sewn back on.

    But he came in to work today. with a broken leg. Was motorcycling. leg trapped between ground and peg as landed. kept going. Went to step back on the peg. Foot was 90 Deg to the right. drove to the infeild. got off the bike. Grabed his foot and turned it back 90 deg.

    that is my kind of tough.
    1967-68 flin flon bombers tough.
    Been there! Tape it up and go.

    Funny part was he was afraid to text his wife at work. Sent to Calgary by stars in his last crash.

  97. VOR says:

    Delooper,

    It wasn’t that it was bulky, at least not the early prototypes. It was heavy, really heavy, and uncomfortable to boot.

    Mainly Bill and I talked about Rife Frequency Generators and he only showed me the helmet in passing. But it not only protected your neck if you slid into to the boards but also protected you from any contact to the head (like a stick over the head which was the demonstration Bill iked to use as I recall). There is some debate about what percentage of concussions are deceleration, acceleration injuries and what percentage arise from hitting hte boards or ice which is what Bill was trying to prevent but you are right it probably wasn’t feasible to wear a helmet like Carveth’s.

    As you may recall I was responding to a comment about helmets having not progressed much. Then I started thinking, as a goaltender our helmets (I liked the cage) and masks have been evolving at quite a fast rate. Maybe other players helmets have been as well. That lead me to this video on you tube.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4q6lwAiSPU

    and this news article about a professor at University of Ottawa who has built a better helmet.

    http://www.universityaffairs.ca/researcher-aims-to-build-a_better-hockey-helmet.aspx

  98. melancholyculkin says:

    spoiler: Judging by the Shark’s performance over the past few years with the talent and experience they’ve had, does he really deserve another coaching job?I mean, probably he will get one, but considering the fact he’s done F all with some great horses in his stable, is this a guy you would want anywhere near your thoroughbreds?

    I wouldn’t.

    Right.

    A presidents trophy, two conference titles, three division titles and two straight appearances in the Western Final.

    No success whatsoever.

  99. spoiler says:

    melancholyculkin: Right.

    A presidents trophy, two conference titles, three division titles and two straight appearances in the Western Final.

    No success whatsoever.

    Your shiny baubles mean nothing to me. They ain’t never even danced for the big one. Which also means they ain’t ever won a conference title.

    You’re reading me a tad too literally. This was in the context of McLellan being fired. I know they’ve won stuff.

    The Sharks are under-achievers for the talent they have. Like Mickelson before he won a major. They certainly have more talent in their top 6 than the team whupping their asses. And we coulda had the coach conducting the batons.

  100. Ryan says:

    VOR,

    The Oilers have *tried* to address the need for sandpaper by:

    1. Talking about team toughness over and over and over…
    2. Hoping to turn players like JFJ into Lucic
    3. Sending ineffective hockey players like JFJ or Ryan Stone for limited sheltered minutes to create energy.
    4. Talking endlessly about how having the toughest fighter in the NHL (Macintyre) sitting in the PB or glaring from the bench helps protect the Oilers while watching them drop like flies.
    5. Having guys like Hordichuk responding to cheap shots, then shrugging their shoulders saying, “he didn’t want to fight.”

    Obviously, 1-5 has been an epic fail. I agree with the idea of taking a few swings int he draft, but the Oilers have a pretty dire need to fill next season.

    Assuming we draft the Nail, then I think we have to agree that it’s a death knell for Sam Gagner as an Oiler.

    Can we reasonably hope to compete with a top six of:

    The Kids in the Hall line
    Nail – Gagner – Hemsky

    in our top six especially if they’re backed up by Smyth – Horcoff – Jones on the third and the fourth line is playing a few minutes per night?

    Obviously the above top six would have tons of skill, but what would be the over/under on those two lines not getting their heads taken off on a nightly basis?

    On that note, we need someone like a David Backes.

    If Tambo called Doug Armstrong and said, “We want David Backes and I’ve got everything on the table minus the 4 prodigies (incl/ Nail), how long does it take until the line goes dead?

  101. godot10 says:

    Ryan:
    VOR,

    The Oilers have *tried* to address the need for sandpaper by:

    1.Talking about team toughness over and over and over…
    2. Hoping to turn players like JFJ into Lucic
    3.Sending ineffective hockey players like JFJ or Ryan Stone for limited sheltered minutes to create energy.
    4.Talking endlessly about how having the toughest fighter in the NHL (Macintyre) sitting in the PB or glaring from the bench helps protect the Oilers while watching them drop like flies.
    5.Having guys like Hordichuk responding to cheap shots, then shrugging their shoulders saying, “he didn’t want to fight.”

    Obviously, 1-5 has been an epic fail.I agree with the idea of taking a few swings int he draft, but the Oilers have a pretty dire need to fill next season.

    Assuming we draft the Nail, then I think we have to agree that it’s a death knell for Sam Gagner as an Oiler.

    Can we reasonably hope to compete with a top six of:

    The Kids in the Hall line
    Nail – Gagner – Hemsky

    in our top six especially if they’re backed up by Smyth – Horcoff – Jones on the third and the fourth line is playing a few minutes per night?

    Obviously the above top six would have tons of skill, but what would be the over/under on those two lines not getting their heads taken off on a nightly basis?

    On that note, we need someone like a David Backes.

    If Tambo called Doug Armstrong and said, “We want David Backes and I’ve got everything on the table minus the 4 prodigies (incl/ Nail), how long does it take until the line goes dead?

    The Oilers aren’t going from 29th to the Stanley Cup in one year. The “small” top six should be good enough to get us to the playoffs. As the veterans move on and retire, the Oilers have to try to add size and physicality with the replacements.

    The Canucks have a problem, because they are in their contending window, and have discovered they lack the physicality to competer. The Oilers are not in their window, so they have time to correct deficiencies in size and physicality over time.

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