ANDY SUTTON 11-12: FOUR STRONG WINDS

Andy Sutton went out to Alberta and found some friends who he could go to working for; as it turned out, he was such a good hand he’ll be staying around for another winter.

Andy Sutton 11-12

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.79 (2nd among Oil D)
  • 5×4 points per 60: nil
  • Qual Comp: easiest among D
  • Qual Team: lowest quality available among D
  • Corsi Rel: 6.0 (best among D)
  • Zone Start: 48.7% (2nd toughest among D)
  • Zone Finish: 49.2% (3rd best among D)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 41 shots/7.3% (3rd among Oilers D)
  • Boxcars: 52, 3-7-10
  • Plus Minus: +5 on a team that was -26
  1. What do these numbers tell us? Sutton played on the third pairing with mush and delivered a quality season across the board. He played 52 games, was +5 and led the team in CorsiRel plus had a solid ZS/finish. Veteran had a solid season.
  2. How could these numbers be better? I don’t think there’s anything to criticize. Andy Sutton delivered a good season for the Edmonton Oilers.
  3. Well, this is certainly more positive than your August RE. My issue then had to do with holding back Petry. Sutton was used in the slot in the lineup where he could have success and he did; the Oilers used Petry at a higher level so it all worked out in this area.
  4. How did they use him? 15 minutes a night at evens and 2 on the PK. Textbook 5-6 veteran minutes and he supplied solid, solid play.
  5. So, you liked him and are glad he’s coming back? Well, I would have strongly considered trading him at the deadline but Sutton will be worth something at this year’s deadline–defensemen always are at the trade deadline.
  6. You don’t think the Oilers will be in playoff contention? Who knows? At this point betting on the Oilers to make the playoffs before I die is probably a poor bet.
  7. Health okay? Fine, fine. Thanks for asking.
  8. How do you see the Oilers using Sutton this coming season? Same way as this year. Oilers used Strudwick and Vandermeer in similar fashion in 10-11; maybe Sutton will see more playing time 4×5 but other than that business as usual.
  9. Could he mentor a young rookie? Sure, Sutton would have done a lot of it over the last few years on the island and with the other clubs. I’m sure he can pass along some good advice.
  10. Does that have value? I think so. Look, the quicker you can get a Theo Peckham to realize what’s at stake every time he laces them up the better, and sometimes a respected veteran can have the impact others can’t in these situations.
  11. Geez. What did Peckham do? We’ll discuss that in the Peckham RE, don’t worry it isn’t earth shattering or anything. Lots of young defensemen go through this stuff.
  12. I know you’re not a huge fan of this guy. Oh?
  13. Sure. You always take little shots at him. Tell me his 1.75M extension doesn’t bother you. I’m fine with the deal, Sutton took a healthy cut in his salary to stay another year.
  14. He’s old. Yes, but he had an effective season. I doubt Sutton would have been unemployed throughout the summer had he gone UFA, and suspect there was interest in him at the deadline. Andy Sutton had a good year.
  15. You chose a terrible NY song. Young didn’t even write it! It’s a classic, you idiot. Its one of the earliest songs I can ever remember. It has the angel voice of Nicolette Larson on it; Ian Tyson wrote it and its probably the most famous song written by a Canadian not named Gordon Lightfoot, Leonard Cohen or Neil Young.
  16. Or Chad Kroeger. Now you’re being a dink.
  17. Is he blocking anyone? If he is, Edmonton can trade him or send him out. Based on what we’ve seen, I doubt Alex Plante or Colten Teubert are going to force their way onto the roster in the fall.
  18. What about Justin Schultz or Ryan Murray? I think Potter and Peckham are more likely to be bubble players for 12-13 should Edmonton acquire either of these young men (or another quality D prospect).
  19. What will Sutton do after his NHL career ends? Work with Brendan Shanahan. Book it.

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61 Responses to "ANDY SUTTON 11-12: FOUR STRONG WINDS"

  1. godot10 says:

    Andy Sutton mentored/babysat that Karlsson guy in Ottawa through his rookie season.

    Could do the same for Justin Schultz or Ryan Murray.

  2. stevezie says:

    Bob saying that he thoght the Oilers would wind up with Schultz was the cruelest possible thing he could have done to this fan base, unless we actually do.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Did he say that? Seriously?

  4. Adam Dyck says:

    Sutton is the perfect example of why Teddy Peckman is a waste of our time. There is no need to develop this player type, when there are dozens of journeymen available every year.

  5. Bar_Qu says:

    I’m glad you clarified the Ian Tyson thing. I was confused (as I normally am with your music references, but moreso this time).

    The thing with Sutton was the ceiling was not so high, but there was a lot of anxiety lifted every time he played in his own zone. I don’t have a problem with him coming back, but I do think they could’ve asked the stars for him at the trade deadline. How much would a defense depleted squad have paid to get him for a playoff run? Lots.

  6. godot10 says:

    Adam Dyck:
    Sutton is the perfect example of why Teddy Peckman is a waste of our time. There is no need to develop this player type, when there are dozens of journeymen available every year.

    One should develop everything, because it is cheaper to do it that way. And then spend money on free agents when development fails or to fill gaps.

    Where is one exactly going to get an affordable defense if 1) nobody ever wants to draft a defenseman, and 2) some people are now suggesting that it is a waste of time to develop physical defensive defensemen.

    How do you develop forwards in the AHL if they don’t have an adequate defense behind them also.

    You want to always have the potential of a extreme value contract or two on the roster when you reach contention, and these are usually players on first or second contracts developed internally.

    Yep… Vancouver spending time developing Bieksa and Tanev was really, really dumb.

  7. "Steve Smith" says:

    As I’ve said before, I think Four Strong Winds is maybe more recognized as a Neil Young song than as an Ian Tyson one; I actually prefer Young’s version, but I’m crazy that way. Don’t agree with you on it being the most famous Canadian song other than Lightfoot/Cohen/Young, though, by a long shot. Besides Nickelback (and I’m proud not to be able to name a single of their songs, though I’d sure recognize them if I heard them), the Barenaked Ladies and Crash Test Dummies both released some stuff that’d be pretty recognizable worldwide (and I know there are tonnes I’m forgetting – I think Spirit of the West’s “Home for a Rest” gets a fair bit of play internationally among drunk people). And then there’s the stuff written by Canadians but made famous by others: I just learned recently that the lady who wrote Bonnie Raitt’s “Something to Talk About” was from Sackville, for example.

    Andy Sutton? I was advocating bringing him here the summer of, I think, 2009. He was overpaid this year and will be next year too, but as long as that doesn’t extend past the kids’ ELCs I don’t mind. By far the best guy we’ve had filling the Strudwick/Vandermeer role in ages, anyway. Sort of reminds me of Souray on the PK, actually (less so on the power play, assuming I’ve ever seen Sutton on the power play – can’t remember doing so offhand).

  8. "Steve Smith" says:

    (The wide-eyed optimist in me thinks that maybe there’s an understanding that, if things go well, Sutton will come back in 2013-2014 at slightly above league minimum, as a quid pro quo for next year’s overpay. We’ll sure be able to use cheap, effective players then – all of which assumes that Sutton will still be effective.)

  9. stevezie says:

    Lowetide,

    Back in March on the TSN panel Bob McKenzie said if he had to guess (and made a big deal about clarifying it was just a guess and not inside info) he figured Schultz would sign in Edmonton. Ever since then fans have been talkingg, not like it was a done deal, but like is was likely.

    Not just ladies from Sackville that give us Somethin’ To Talk About.

  10. DSF says:

    godot10: One should develop everything, because it is cheaper to do it that way.And then spend money on free agents when development fails or to fill gaps.

    Where is one exactly going to get an affordable defense if 1) nobody ever wants to draft a defenseman, and 2) some people are now suggesting that it is a waste of time to develop physical defensive defensemen.

    How do you develop forwards in the AHL if they don’t have an adequate defense behind them also.

    You want to always have the potential of a extreme value contract or two on the roster when you reach contention, and these are usually players on first or second contracts developed internally.

    Yep… Vancouver spending time developing Bieksa and Tanev was really, really dumb.

    You really have no choice but to develop players since you draft 7 of them on average every season but, at the same time, spending a great deal of time bringing along players who might be a good fit on the third or fourth lines or the bottom pairing some day is waste of time, energy and resources.

    As some mentioned earlier, these types of players are always available in great numbers and the successful GM’s are the ones who identify the best ones at the best value.

    If you look at the roster of any successful team, you’ll see their bottom 6 and bottom pairing are chock a block with the players they neither drafted or developed but instead were acquired because they brought a specific skill set to the party or were failed high picks by another team.

    Let’s examine the Bruins as an example.

    Chris Kelly. Drafted in the 3rd round by Ottawa.

    Rich Peverley. Undrafted

    Gregory Campbell. 3rd round pick by Florida.

    Benoit Pouliot. 1st round pick. Minnesota

    Brian Rolston. 1st round pick NJ.

    Shawn Thornton. 7th round pick Toronto

    Daniel Paille. 1st round pick Buffalo

    Worth noting that not one Bruin defenseman was drafted by the Bruins.

    Spending years drafting and/or developing players like Smid, Peckham, Petry, Lander, Pettrel, VandeVelde et al is just not prudent given that you can go out and replace them in a heartbeat.

    If you think you’ve got a diamond in the rough that just needs polishing, fine, but a good GM will identify those players and cut the rest loose with a better option as soon as possible.

    IMO the job description of an NHL GM is “accelerating serendipity.”

    Smart trades and signings are the way to do that.

  11. Gerta Rauss says:

    I thought Sutton showed well this season-I had a Foster/Strudwick benchmark set in my mnd and he was a nice surprise.Slow as molasses but he is clever with the puck and a decent hockey IQ-he isn’t quick but he reads the play well and gets to where the puck is going to be.

    The signing was a bit of a head scratcher but like you mentioned,we’ll get a draft pick for him when we move him at this years deadline.

    I haven’t been to the Folk Fest in a few years but they always close the festival with Four strong winds-I’m assuming that’s still the case.

  12. stevezie says:

    DSF,

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing, but there’s no rule against doing both.

  13. DSF says:

    stevezie:
    DSF,

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing, but there’s no rule against doing both.

    No there isn’t but it appears the Oilers don’t get that.

    They are obsessed with hanging on to marginal prospects.

  14. Lowetide says:

    SS: Oh yeah, there’s a bunch. Randy Bachman-Burton Cummings wrote some wonderful songs, Rush, Joni Mitchell, Blue Rodeo, Paul Anka, Tragically Hip.

    Ian Thomas wrote a bunch too.

  15. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    SS: Oh yeah, there’s a bunch. Randy Bachman-Burton Cummings wrote some wonderful songs, Rush, Joni Mitchell, Blue Rodeo, Paul Anka, Tragically Hip.

    Ian Thomas wrote a bunch too.

    Leonard Cohen.

    That is all.

  16. "Steve Smith" says:

    Lowetide:
    SS: Oh yeah, there’s a bunch. Randy Bachman-Burton Cummings wrote some wonderful songs…

    Er, right, those guys. They’re who I meant by “…and I know there are tonnes I’m forgetting.”

    I mean, also other guys. But they were the dumbest omission. Anyway, “American Woman” is unquestionably more famous than “Four Strong Winds”, just not as good.

  17. Lowetide says:

    DSF: Leonard Cohen.

    That is all.

    I mentioned Cohen in the original post.

  18. Gerta Rauss says:

    If you’re judging by what gets played during the stops in play at NHL arenas in the US then Rush wins hands down.

  19. Lowetide says:

    “Steve Smith”: Er, right, those guys.They’re who I meant by “…and I know there are tonnes I’m forgetting.”

    I mean, also other guys.But they were the dumbest omission.Anyway, “American Woman” is unquestionably more famous than “Four Strong Winds”, just not as good.

    Yeah, I’d agree with that. Best Guess Who song? No Time. Great guitar riff.

  20. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF,

    Fun fact: the “Cohen” in “Lightfoot/Cohen/Young” was not referring to Sacha Baron.

  21. "Steve Smith" says:

    Lowetide,

    It’s up there, for sure. No Sugar/New Mother’s great too. And tonnes I’m forgetting, no doubt.

    (The Guess Who were my first rock concert, in which regard I suppose I was atypical of my generation. Fat old bastards put on a great show, though.)

  22. Lowetide says:

    Cummings voice is amazing, the guy can just flat out sing. On a far more obscure note, this song should be famous

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZwwZrzM21w&feature=related

  23. BlacqueJacque says:

    LT, you talk to yourself a lot. Starting to worry about that :)

  24. Lowetide says:

    I think it is healthy. As do I.

  25. jake70 says:

    Off topic, but Brett Lawrie just hit a walkoff homer for the jays, crazy, he reminds me a lot of Taylor Hall, balls to the wall.

  26. jake70 says:

    Hmm, that Shirley Eikhard lady, from 20 min down the trans canada, never heard of her, little embarrased.

    Saw Burton Cummings few months back, man can still belt them out. He let it be known in not so subtle terms what he thinks of “the Guess Who” that tours the US with the other singer and an original Guess Who guy, think the bass player or drummer. He threw the term Karoake band among other things…..tell us how ya feel Burton…haha.

  27. DSF says:

    You Ain’t Seen Nothin’ Yet.

  28. "Steve Smith" says:

    jake70,

    It’s both the bassist (Jim Kale) and the drummer (Gary Peterson), or at least it was fairly recently. Both of those guys joined with Bachman and Cummings for the original lineup (well, as original as you can get without Chad Allan) performance at the Winnipeg Pan-Ams. Kale bowed out of the subsequent tour (it was originally reported to be health-related, but then he started touring with his own band, Dink Boy, at around the same time). Peterson was on both that tour and the subsequent one, so I’m not sure where things went sour there.

    Burt toured with the “Cummings-Bachman Band” for a while, which is sort of the Canadian version of the “Lennon-McCartney Band”, as far as “percentage of a band’s talent touring without using the band’s actual name” is concerned.

  29. DSF says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    Two modern day genii to check out:

    Lester Quitzau (originally from St. Albert)

    Harry Manx (Saltspring Island)

    Amazing.

  30. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF,

    Never heard of either. Listening to Quitzau now, and still undecided. His plastering the front page of his website with “We are one big life energy, bathed in the same light, occupying this fragile and beautiful planet together like a woven fabric…” does not prejudice me in his favour.

  31. "Steve Smith" says:

    Bohologo,

    You did omit the word “not” from the beginning of my quote, which kind of affects the meaning.

    I’m going to come right out and say this about Joni Mitchell: most of her stuff is dreck. Both Sides, Now is great, Big Yellow Taxi is fun, a few others…but by and large I do not get the appeal (and the appeal is held primarily among those who share my musical taste).

  32. DSF says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    DSF,

    Never heard of either.Listening to Quitzau now, and still undecided.His plastering the front page of his website with “We are one big life energy, bathed in the same light, occupying this fragile and beautiful planet together like a woven fabric…” does not prejudice me in his favour.

    Dig a little deeper.

    It’s worth it.

    And, he’s not wrong about that.

  33. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF,

    Not wrong, just inane and largely meaningless. If you can get half way through that quote without reflexively making the jerk-off motion, you’re a stronger man than I.

  34. Lowetide says:

    Joni Mitchell spent some time in small town SK, same town I grew up in. She even wrote a song about it, well about small towns and dreams and she included the name of my town in it. Kinda cool, haven’t thought about out in years.

  35. DSF says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    DSF,

    Not wrong, just inane and largely meaningless.If you can get half way through that quote without reflexively making the jerk-off motion, you’re a stronger man than I.

    Are you a lawyer?

    Perhaps I can direct you to the Eagles “Get Over It”.

    Or Dick the Butcher.

    Now that’s jerking off.

  36. Lowetide says:

    Eagles? You could take everything after Take it to the Limit and flush it as far as I’m concerned. Christ what a bunch of egomaniacs.

  37. "Steve Smith" says:

    Lowetide,

    “Hell Freezes Over” is actually a pretty decent live album, but the four studio tracks that open it are terrible.

  38. Bad Seed says:

    You all forgot about the great Bruce Cockburn. And I agree, Four Strong Winds sounds best when Ole Neil does it. And I’ve heard Tyson close the Edmonton Folkfest with his signature tune.
    By the way, Lowetide, great reading when you intertwine your love of music. You used to do it a lot more in years past. Great blog – read everyday (even DSF’s posts).
    And thanks to the guy who recommended NY & Crazy Horse at Outside Lands Festival in SF in August a couple of weeks ago. My buddies & I are going. Doesn’t hurt that Metallica’s playing too.

  39. Bad Seed says:

    Lowetide,

    You can tell when a band mails it in. Housewives love ‘em though!

  40. spoiler says:

    Paul Anka.

  41. DSF says:

    Bad Seed:
    You all forgot about the great Bruce Cockburn. And I agree, Four Strong Winds sounds best when Ole Neil does it.And I’ve heard Tyson close the EdmontonFolkfest with his signature tune.
    By the way, Lowetide, great reading when you intertwine your love of music.You used to do it a lot more in years past.Great blog – read everyday (even DSF’s posts).
    And thanks to the guy who recommended NY & Crazy Horse at Outside Lands Festival in SF in August a couple of weeks ago.My buddies & I are going.Doesn’t hurt that Metallica’s playing too.

    Met and spoke with Bruce Cockburn a couple of times.

    Egomaniac…oh yeah.

    Self righteous prick also comes to mind.

  42. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    Eagles? You could take everything after Take it to the Limit and flush it as far as I’m concerned. Christ what a bunch of egomaniacs.

    Joe Walsh is God.

    That is all.

  43. Bad Seed says:

    DSF,

    DSF,

    He probably said the same about you.

  44. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF,

    I’ve never spoken to him, but I can see it. Dig his music, though.

  45. Gerta Rauss says:

    DSF: Met and spoke with Bruce Cockburn a couple of times.Egomaniac…oh yeah.Self righteous prick also comes to mind.

    That’s disappointing to hear-big fan of his music,with a lot of it on vinyl.

    Joni Mitchell’s Hejira is one of my favourites-one of those albums you have to play from start to finish. Terrific playing by Jaco on that album.

  46. Lowetide says:

    Cockburn’s an interesting writer. Tokyo, Mama Wants to Barrelhouse, I don’t think anyone else would have written his songs.

    Joe Walsh on the other hand? Life’s been good so far.

  47. Bad Seed says:

    Lowetide,

    re: Cockburn

    Check out Charity of Night, Life Short Call Now, or if you want dark, You’ve Never Seen Everything.

  48. DSF says:

    Bad Seed:
    DSF,

    DSF,

    He probably said the same about you.

    Likely…and he’s definitely sold more records than me :)

  49. Lowetide says:

    Gerta Rauss: That’s disappointing to hear-big fan of his music,with a lot of it on vinyl.

    Joni Mitchell’s Hejira is one of my favourites-one of those albums you have to play from start to finish. Terrific playing by Jaco on that album.

    Like that album too. She lost me after that album (too sophisticated for me) but Hejira and Hissing of Summer Lawns are still both really good albums imo.

  50. DSF says:

    Check out the song and the guy in the red hat.

    Really doesn’t get any better.

    The guys is a genius.

    http://youtu.be/ifp_SVrlurY

  51. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    Cockburn’s an interesting writer. Tokyo, Mama Wants to Barrelhouse, I don’t think anyone else would have written his songs.

    Joe Walsh on the other hand? Life’s been good so far.

    He lived life his way.

    And FFS can he play!

  52. spoiler says:

    Paul Anka wrote the line “I did it my way.”

    Just sayin.

    There’s a report out today that tests taken at the end of the season confirm Grigorenko has been suffering from Mononucleosis.

  53. Lowetide says:

    Does java update every hour on the hour? Jeebus.

  54. Wolfie says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    jake70,

    It’s both the bassist (Jim Kale) and the drummer (Gary Peterson), or at least it was fairly recently.Both of those guys joined with Bachman and Cummings for the original lineup (well, as original as you can get without Chad Allan) performance at the Winnipeg Pan-Ams.Kale bowed out of the subsequent tour (it was originally reported to be health-related, but then he started touring with his own band, Dink Boy, at around the same time).Peterson was on both that tour and the subsequent one, so I’m not sure where things went sour there.

    Burt toured with the “Cummings-Bachman Band” for a while, which is sort of the Canadian version of the “Lennon-McCartney Band”, as far as “percentage of a band’s talent touring without using the band’s actual name” is concerned.

    Kale actually owns the rights to the name The Guess Who. My ex in-laws were great friends with Leonard Shaw who used to manage and play in the band while Cummings and Bachman were awol. Kale didn’t tour much if I recall due to bad habits.

    As an aside Cummings was going to produce a record with some of my cousins in a band called Tooth n Nail. He promised to bring them down to LA and help them hit the big time but he was more talk than anything. He played a few local shows with them and then kind of left them hanging.

    I have had the chance to meet Ian Tyson. There’s a tour group in the states called Roots on the Rails and they organize rail tours with bands. I’ve had the chance to work it a few times through Via Rail in 2006, 2007 and 2008. It is just a fantastic setup for fans to interact with their favorite musicians. They spend 4 or 5 days travelling, eating and conversing with the musicians. There are workshops, open mics and concerts every day.

    The lineups varied from year to year but I’ve had a chance to work with and hang around Tom Russell, Fred Eaglesmith, Blackie and the Rodeo Kings, The Flatlanders, The Cowboy Junkies among many others. Great times for sure!

  55. Yeti says:

    Bit late here, but RE: Sutton – I think some mention of suspensions is in order here. He made some dumb cheap shots that ruled him out of the lineup at a time the team could have used him. And he’s set himself up for a big suspension the next time he pulls that shit.

    And the same could apply to the Eagles, no doubt.

  56. stevezie says:

    Bohologo: Whoa, hey man. Take it easy.

    Get the fuck out of my cab.

    “Steve Smith”,

    I think Joni Mitchell is amazing, but I have a similar experience with Nine Inch Nails. Most people who like the rock music I like love Nine Inch Nails, and they are some where between doing nothing for me and actively repelling me.

    Yeti,

    Oh yeah, Sutton. I hear he doesn’t even play his own instruments.

  57. "Steve Smith" says:

    stevezie,

    Neil Young and the Big Lebowski, together at…actually, I’m pretty sure that’s not the first time it’s happened in a Lowetide comments thread.

    I love this blog.

  58. Moosemess says:

    Given the adjective you used was most ‘famous’ song by a Canadian, I think you’d have to go with something more populist like Celine Dion’s Titanic Theme or Bryan Adam’s ‘Everything I Do.’

    Definitely not the best music ever recorded by a Canadian, but likely the most famous I’m afraid. Personally, I’d back Tom Sawyer. That Pye Dubois was an interesting cat.

  59. "Steve Smith" says:

    Moosemess,

    Bryan Adams is a good call who should already have been mentioned (I’d think “Summer of 69″ would beat out “Everything I Do” – it’s stupidly big in Germany, for example), but “My Heart Will Go On” was written by a pair of Yanks (or so says Wikipedia, anyway).

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