DRAFT PROFILES #2: RYAN MURRAY

Ryan Murray is an interesting prospect. Although lacking elite level offensive skills, he’s in the conversation right at the top of the draft. How could this be? What does Ryan Murray bring?

SCOUTING REPORT

  • Ryan Murray is advanced beyond his years with well above-average hockey sense and the rare kind of game-processing ability and vision that makes him a significant two-way threat even without elite offensive tools. Murray is a great presence on the back-end with the puck because he rarely makes a mistake and even though he doesn’t limit himself to the basic plays, he not will force the big passes if they are not there. He doesn’t get rushed by opposing forechecks and is one of the best outlet passers in this draft. Murray makes smart reads defensively, takes his assignments well, and will not shy from using his body to separate his check from the puck. He’s an above-average to plus skater although he isn’t the kind of player to threaten regularly with a speed game on the rush, rather he relies on a great first step and all-around mobility to keep the play in front of him and close on the puck. Murray’s puck skills are solid, and while he’s not a dangler, he can certainly hold his own in open ice. On the power play, he is a pass-first guy who makes the smart plays and the difficult passes with consistency. He also has a pretty hard shot and can wire it through legs when he needs to. While Murray does not project as an elite prospect, he has a low risk tag on his projection. He will be the kind of player to log over 20 minutes a game while playing tough minutes against the opposition’s best players while still managing to put up impressive possession numbers.
  • Grant McCagg, tsn: Strengths: A real ‘Steady Eddie’ on the blue line; rarely makes a mistake and displays a poise well beyond his years. Smart, dependable rearguard who will be on the ice protecting leads at the end of games. Strong skater with a powerful stride. A team leader with high character. He moves the puck with short, accurate passes. Hard to beat one-on-one. Weaknesses: He’s not a punishing guy who will provide a physical presence while his offensive skills may be limited and he may be more of a stay-at home defender. NHL upside: A No. 2 or No. 3 defenceman with leadership qualities who will be relied upon to shut down team’s top players, kill penalties and protect leads.
  • ISS: Murray has been a model of consistency for the Everett Silvertips since returning to the lineup. The maturity and composure he displayed earlier this season continued to shine. His defensive hockey sense separates him from most in this draft, and is considered the draft’s most complete defenseman. He’s generally matched up against the most teams’ top line, logging upwards of 25 minutes per game. Has more offensive upside than given credit for and bright future ahead of him.
  • Central Scouting’s BJ MacDonald: “I think Murray is more like a [Scott] Niedermayer; he just does everything under the radar and so smooth you hardly notice it. His skating is probably the best in the [WHL], but you don’t really notice that so much because you almost take it for granted he’s been there for three years. He never gets out of position and I’ve never seen him lose a one-on-one battle. He’s always, defensively, in the right spots. He just does everything so seamlessly that he reminds me of Niedermayer only because he does everything so well at such a high level and after a while, you don’t even notice it.”

DESJARDINS NHLE (per 82gp)

  1. Ryan Murphy 10-21-31
  2. Cam Fowler 4-21-25
  3. Dougie Hamilton 4-17-21
  4. Brandon Gormley 4-14-18
  5. Ryan Murray 5-12-17
  6. Nathan Beaulieu 4-12-16
  7. Erik Gudbranson 1-13-14
  • I think Murray’s offense is a little underrated at this point, he played on a junior team that scored just 185 goals (2.57 per game). Dougie Hamilton’s team (in his draft year) scored 273 goals, or 4.01 per game.
  • I’m not certain how to adjust for that, but would suggest that there’s enough of a gap to consider Murray and Hamilton to be much closer in terms of offensive ability.

THE GOOD

  • Another terrific scouting report, excellent speed and a very good defenseman. Most of his value comes from the redline in, and the advanced stats we value don’t reward players for it.
  • The BJ MacDonald scouting report above is exceptional. If Murray can live up to that, his drafting team should be very pleased with him.
  • 6.01, 195 and will turn 19 on September 27. He’s an older prospect, a positive and a negative.  However, since we’re not talking about offensive development with this player, his ability to play defense and advanced maturity is a positive.
  • Intelligent player. I don’t think we should overlook this aspect of his resume, as we know the Oilers highly value the cerebral.

THE BAD

  • Mostly revolves around lack of offensive ability. If we can agree  that the hardest thing in the world is to score goals, then drafting #1 in a season where there’s another Taylor Hall should make the decision an easy one. That’s nothing against Murray, but I do believe Oiler fans have perhaps overlooked Murray or underrated him based on a view viewings. Saw him bad is about as poor a reason to pass on a player as saw him good. No?
  • His injury–high ankle sprain–is a tough one but he should be fine overall. The injury does serve as a reminder that drafting defenseman can be a sticky wicket. When we say things like “defenseman take time to develop” we should add “and some  of them fall away because of injury” because it is such a difficult position to play.
  • This is not Denis Potvin. Ryan Murray has a glimmering scouting report, but I think the comparisons to Scott Niedermay may set him up for disappointment among the fanbase. I think he’ll be more offensively capable than Chris Phillips, and he does have a good shot acccording to the scouting reports. But a guess at an outer marker should probably  use Dougie Hamilton as a comparable. We’ll see.

THE REST

  • I know you’re tired of hearing it, but it is probably wise to at least allow for the possibility that the Edmonton Oilers select Murray #1 overall. Stu MacGregor told Dean Millard weeks ago that they would draft Murray #1 overall if they felt he was the right choice. He also told Robin Brownlee “but I think (GM) Steve Tambellini was pretty clear that, you know, maybe we do have to make an organizational decision . . .”
  • A lot has been made about Murray being NHL ready. I think that kind of thinking is a mistake. Should Murray come in and shoot the lights out, the smart move is to send him back to junior. The Oilers need to fix the blue before this blue chipper arrives and then bring him in as a 6th man with a veteran partner like Schultz. That’s the right play.
  • The Oilers have an extreme need on defense and that may counter the gap in talent between Yakupov and the rest of the pack.

RYAN MURRAY WILL GO IN THE TOP 3 SELECTIONS AT THE NHL DRAFT

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105 Responses to "DRAFT PROFILES #2: RYAN MURRAY"

  1. TheOtherJohn says:

    The Oilers are contemplating drafting Murray because they have an immediate need for a high end D man. Murray, if selected, is not going to be able to fill that role on our roster for 3-4 years. So to address an immediate need we are going to select an player that wont be ready for awhile. It is definitely inverted reasoning

    Conventional wisdom is “D men take longer to develop.” If that statement is accurate, and you were rebuilding wouldn’t you make drafting large # of D men a priority at the front end of a rebuild? So that while they were developing slower (I do not mean the Plante/Tuebert development curve) they would be ready to contribute when their offensive talent was ready.

    We are, however, where we are. That opportunity was missed but I still do not believe you pass on more talented player because you have a structural problem right now. That structural problem will not be fixed by selecting Murray for a few years.

    Can we call this “smartest guy in room syndrome”

  2. Lowetide says:

    I think the Oilers HAVE drafted a lot of defensemen and they are finding their way. Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Musil, there are a lot of prospects in the system.

    I think the Oilers need to fix the NHL defense with trades and free agent signings. Getting Garrison AND trading for Tyutin, as an example. Starting the fall with Tyutin, Garrison, Smid, Petry, Whintey, Schultz and Sutton.

    And if you need to keep Peckham or Potter or Fedun crashes the party,, run with 8 as speeds has suggested.

  3. russ99 says:

    This draft is very deep in defenseman with not much to seperate the top end guys like Murray and Dumba and the mid-level guys in Ceci and Reinhart, especially if one of the top guys drops to a lower pick like Fowler did.

    So if the team is serious about playoff contention next year as in Tambellini’s presser, then trade up into the 8-12th pick (including picks, prospects and players) to get both Yakupov and a 2 year project top defenseman prospect.

    Next year’s first rounder shouldn’t be off limits, if we can get the right player.

  4. LMHF#1 says:

    You’re right LT, he’s not Denis Potvin. He’s also not Chris Pronger and probably not Scott Niedermayer. There will be a big-time impact player in this draft. I can’t see how you logically take a defenceman whose scouting report screams “we stole him in the third round” with the first overall pick.

    I could see a bad GM making a bad decision based on perceived need and actually managing to screw up a #1 overall selection though…Too bad we’re not drafting 25-year-old defencemen…then our guy might have a shot.

  5. TheOtherJohn says:

    LT

    Klefbom, Musil and Gernat were all drafted this past year. If the premise is right….”longer to develop” and I am not saying it is. But if so we would have taken Hall and then used the Pitlick, Hamilton picks on D men. But we did not. So now we have a structural problem with our roster and are seriously talking about taking a lesser player to fill in a hole we, in part, created.

    Shoulda done what Poile/Nashville did in 2003 with Suter, Klein and Weber in first 2 rounds

    No difficulty rolling 8 D but would prefer not running a roster full of #6-7 D men to do it. We really need to add another top 4 D man to fill in this hole. Could even be a real old guy for 2 yearr overpay until all our young kids develop.

    I really just want us to quit playing checkers while most (many) of our competitors are playing chess

  6. Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons says:

    After the coaching moves yesterday and the notion that Tambo will be on the chopping block if things don’t go well, I would be surprised if Murray was selected first overall. Tambo will/should be looking to make significant improvements in the immediate future if he wants to keep his job. Drafting Murray won’t do that, and I think/hope Tambo realizes that.

    That leaves Yakupov or a trade. I think Tambo shops hard to trade the pick for a top D. That will be the safer bet to make a difference in the standings. My hope is that Tambo isn’t so desperate for that D that he sells the future of the team short.

  7. Henry says:

    russ99:
    This draft is very deep in defenseman with not much to seperate the top end guys like Murray and Dumba and the mid-level guys in Ceci and Reinhart, especially if one of the top guys drops to a lower pick like Fowler did.

    So if the team is serious about playoff contention next year as in Tambellini’s presser, then trade up into the 8-12th pick (including picks, prospects and players) to get both Yakupov and a 2 year project top defenseman prospect.

    Next year’s first rounder shouldn’t be off limits, if we can get the right player.

    russ99,

    Interesting idea. How about a gentleman’s wager with Feaster? Calgary’s first this year for our first next year.

  8. Traktor says:

    Button ranks Murray as the 7th best defender in the draft.

    Undisputed #1 and 7th best defender seems like a wide gap to me.

  9. danny says:

    Anyone privy to Chris Phillips draft scouting report?

    Memory says they were saying the exact same things about Phillips back in the 96 draft.

    Is that a realistic comparable? He went 1st overall in a pretty weak draft, save for Briere (24th) and Chara (56th)

  10. Ducey says:

    Next year’s first rounder shouldn’t be off limits, if we can get the right player.

    Yes it should. The “right guy” is unlikely to play in the NHL next season. Next year’s draft is much stronger and its pretty tough to be certain where the Oilers will finish next year. A reasonable guess for best case scenario would be sneaking into the playoffs. The worst case scenario has them in the lottery again.

    When the Oilers are competing for the Cup regularly they can start thinking about dealing #1 picks (which would be a very late first round pick), until then, its a very bad idea.

    Button ranks Murray as the 7th best defender in the draft.

    There is a reason that Button talks about who he would draft instead of doing the drafting.

  11. gd says:

    I love Murray and I think Murray two years from now will be exactly what this team needs, but he just does not warrent the 1st overall pick. If he was the consensus No. 2 than it would be okay (ie picking Doughty instead of Stamkos would have been okay) to pick him at 1, but I’ve seen too many people have Murray the 5th best dman to think he is that good. I also worry about the pressure on him if he was the first pick.

    I think if they keep the 1st pick they have to pick Yak. I do hope if they want someone like Murray they trade down for an established NHLer. The thing with this draft is there are at least four big forwards (Forsberg, Grig, Galchynyuk and Faksa) and at least 6 D (Murray, Dumba, Rielly, Reinhart, Trouba and Ceci) who could be the best pick so their potential trade partners a should be anyone in the top 10. Guys I think they should target are Pacioretty, Eller, Okposo, Harmonic, Faulk, Sutter, Bogosian, Hedman, Carlson and Alzner.

    I still think it is plausible that CBJ trades Nash for TOs 5th overall and then they can do Galcynyuk and Yak with the Oil getting Johansson and the 5th. I also think all avenues to seeing if Weber can be obtained with a minimum 6 yr contract should be explored.

    Otherwise pick Yak and I believe the trade opportunities for him might be just as plentiful after the draft as before with less variables to calculate.

  12. billymadison says:

    Traktor: Button ranks Murray as the 7th best defender in the draft.Undisputed #1 and 7th best defender seems like a wide gap to me.

    Button is an idiot in my opinion. Listening to his comments and draft rankings sometimes, its clear why he does not have an NHL job anymore.

    ISS has murray #3, highest ranked dman, Bob Mckenzie has Murray #3, and CSS has murray ranked 2 best north american skater. Im going to go with the majority on this one, and not Button.

    Murray probably shouldn’t be taken number 1, but in my opinion he is the best dman in this draft right now

  13. fuzzy muppet says:

    If Phoenix keeps failing at putting the puck in the net, maybe #1 OV for Ekman-Larson becomes a legitimate possiblity? (fingers crossed)

    When Grandpa Ray Whitney is the straw that stirs the offensive drink of your team, you’ve got some serious problems…

  14. Captain Obvious says:

    The comparison to Niedermayer is ridiculous. If he was legitimately that good he would be the undisputed #1 guy.

    To me those scouting reports scream Wade Redden as the top end for Murray. Wade Redden had a very nice career but personally, I’d be disappointed with getting Wade Redden out of the #1 pick. And that’s the best case scenario.

    Drafting Murray #1 will be a disaster.
    Trading the #1 for the #5 and Luke, I’m a terrible hockey player, Schenn, would also be a disaster.

    Trading the #1 for another pick and a legitimately good player would be worth talking about.

  15. Traktor says:

    billymadison: Button is an idiot in my opinion. Listening to his comments and draft rankings sometimes, its clear why he does not have an NHL job anymore.

    ISS has murray #3, highest ranked dman, Bob Mckenzie has Murray #3, and CSS has murray ranked 2 best north american skater. Im going to go with the majority on this one, and not Button.

    Murray probably shouldn’t be taken number 1, but in my opinion he is the best dman in this draft right now

    I don’t agree with Button all the time but he’s seen the majority of the top 60 more than than everyone on this board combined. I don’t think he deserves to be called an idiot.

    ISS has Murray #3… they also had Jeff Skinner the 31st best NA skater. Every scouting service makes mistakes.

    I don’t think we can take Button’s word as gospel that Murray is the 7th best D in the draft but clearly there are a lot of good defenders.

    Yakupov will likely end up the top forward from the draft whereas the top defender might not get drafted until the mid-first round. I don’t know if we have the assets or the GM to pull it off but the smart play would to draft Yakupov and then trade for another 1st in the 10-15 range and grab one of the many D with high potential.

  16. godot10 says:

    Why do the Oilers have a scouting staff if they are going to just pick the player based on the consensus?

    It is like paying the 2% Bay Street mutual fund tax for closet indexing, when you could just buy the index yourself.

    MBS is paid to have a reasoned judgement. He is paid to judge which is the best defensemen amongst this group of top defensemen. He is paid to judge the top end and the bottom end of the potential of that defensemen. He is paid to judge the relative long term potential of that defensemen vs. the top end forwards that are available.

    So can we stop with this silly “consensus #1″ argument.

    Just like last year, there is more than one good pick in the top 3.

  17. nathan says:

    “Trading the #1 for another pick and a legitimately good player would be worth talking about”.

    Captain Obvious,

    Up the ante to get the right young D back: #1 OV + X for a proven young D plus a first round pick.

  18. Traktor says:

    godot10:

    Can we stop with this silly “consensus #1″ argument.

    No kidding! Who wants the best player in the draft anyways?!

    I know that you like Murray but your arguments aren’t making sense.

  19. LMHF#1 says:

    gd:
    If he was the consensus No. 2 than it would be okay (ie picking Doughty instead of Stamkos would have been okay)

    That wouldn’t have been okay at all, and illustrates another reason that making a positional decision would be a horrible idea.

  20. jimbones100 says:

    I would love to see Ryan Murray added to this team. I put a lot of value in talented players that also have strong leadership skills and high hockey IQ. These are foundational players for me. Not every player has to be a leader but you need leaders to win championships.

    A Goal Scorer may be the toughest skill to find but I don’t agree that it is the most important player type in winning championships.

    I would argue that a Defenseman that can play 30 minutes and control the game is more valuable than ahigh end scoring winger. And second to the Defenseman would be either the goalie or a First Line Center that can play in all situations.

    Examples:

    Chris Pronger and John Toews over Ovechkin.

    The elite scorer winger is sure exciting but isn’t in most cases the cornerstone of a winning team.

    There certainly is a good argument for draft BPA and trade for a defenseman if needed but as mentioned by others there are no guarentees you can trade for a player like Murray.

  21. Captain Obvious says:

    nathan,

    It depends upon who you have in mind as “x.” If it is Sam Gagner or Paajarvi, I think it’s a bad idea. Unfortunately, we don’t have anything else of value. The only way I do that kind of deal if it’s with Montreal and we’re getting Subban. I’d trade the #1 + Paajarvi for Subban and the #3, but would they? Probably not.

    That kind of deal doesn’t work with any other teams with young defencemen because their picks aren’t high enough to justify the trade.

  22. Lowetide says:

    jimbones100:
    I would love to see Ryan Murray added to this team. I put a lot of value in talented players that also have strong leadership skills and high hockey IQ. These are foundational players for me. Not every player has to be a leader but you need leaders to win championships.

    A Goal Scorer may be the toughest skill to find but I don’t agree that it is the most important player type in winning championships.

    I would argue that a Defenseman that can play 30 minutes and control the game is more valuable than ahigh end scoring winger. And second to the Defenseman would be either the goalie or a First Line Center that can play in all situations.

    Examples:

    Chris Pronger and John Toews over Ovechkin.

    The elite scorer winger is sure exciting but isn’t in most cases the cornerstone of a winning team.

    There certainly is a good argument for draft BPA and trade for a defenseman if needed but as mentioned by others there are no guarentees you can trade for a player like Murray.

    I think, based on the organization’s verbal after picks like Gagner, Nuge and Eberle, the Oilers feel the same way.

  23. gd says:

    LMHF#1,

    I maybe used the wrong example, but I believe that if the choice was between Doughty and Yak the pick of Doughty for the Oil would be defendable. I do believe that if you think the guys are close, you do draft for need. How close is close is something a pro GM should be able determine and that definitely isn’t me.

    Phoenix getting destroyed by LA might be very good news for the chances of getting OEL. Their entire prospect list is Dmen and maybe the new owner will want to make a splash. I would take a 20 yr old next Lidstrom over any of the projections for an 18 yr old in this draft.

  24. nathan says:

    “That kind of deal doesn’t work with any other teams with young defencemen because their picks aren’t high enough to justify the trade.”

    Captain Obvious,

    Think better than Subban and perhaps less than #3. In the right deal the Young D is inside Yakupov’s upside/downside. And age and upside are balanced by adding in the 2007 6th or 2009 10th for a 2012 top 10. (the exact price depends on the D and the pick)

  25. striatic says:

    Interesting idea.How about a gentleman’s wager with Feaster?Calgary’s first this year for our first next year.

    that would be amazing, and i’d love to see it if only for the entertainment value.

    though it would probably have to be something more like edmonton’s 2nd pick this year and 1st pick next year for calgary’s 1st pick this year and 2nd pick next year.

  26. nathan says:

    “Calgary’s first this year”

    striatic,

    Tambi would forget to say first DRAFT pick and they’s send him BRENT.

  27. striatic says:

    also .. why is nobody talking about the message that would be sent to Justin Schultz by drafting Ryan Murray?

    if i’m Schultz and the Oilers draft Murray, my entire reason for coming to Edmonton – ice time – gets shot down since suddenly i’m competing with a second rookie.

    and even if the Oilers do end up with both, do they really want to bank on 2 rookies playing big minutes taking them to the promised land?

  28. SoxandOil says:

    Ideal trade partners would be Montreal or NYI. If Edmonton can get the 3 or 4 overall plus one of Subban, Gorges, or Harmonic i’d happily watch Yakupov on another team. Then hopefully Edmonton can draft either Galy or Murray (in that order).

    That being said: welcome Nail.

  29. Braintrust says:

    Ok, NOW we are FINALLY talking about my friend Ryan Murray. I would have no hesitation selecting him #1 overall at all. He is Captain material, and we are barely scratching the surface of his skill set.

    Next, with all due respect, Craig Button is an idiot! There is a reason why he is no longer a General Manager in the NHL…..Think about it. Part of that reason, is his inability to PROPERLY assess talent. It makes me laugh hysterically when I hear people criticizing Murray’s “so-called” lack of offensive ability. Are you from this dimension? Let’s put Ryan Murray on the St. John Sea Dogs and see what kind of numbers he can put up! It’s not his fault he is on the Silvertips – one of the WORST teams in the WHL. Come on! Let’s take Claude Giroux and put him on the Columbus Blue Jackets and see how well he does.

    As far as I am concerned, Murray would blossom quickly into and outstanding all around defenceman with excellent offensive ability if he played on the Oilers. That progression would be further enhanced and quickened with heavy minutes on the power play. You need to think big picture. I’m sure Taylor Hall knows who he would prefer us to draft and it isn’t Yakupov, I can assure you.

    Stop going with the hype and start looking at things from all angles and not just one. A true judge of talent will see that Murray is exactly what we need right now. Do you not think that Adam Larsson had something to do with New Jersey doing so well this year? He’s only 19!

    I rest my case.

  30. FPB94 says:

    Hi guys.

    I’m terribly sorry to not talk about hockey, but politics again, but i can’t skip over the fact that dictatorship is being installed in Quebec.

    We students have been striking against tuition fees for about 3 months now. Our sign is the red square.

    Quebec has just outlawed wearing a red square, with a fine between 1000 and 7000$.
    Anyone who’s in a group of 10 or more can be searched or kept at the police station by officers arbitrarily. Spontaneous manifestations (Which is a right in free countries) is now outlawed with a fine of over 200 000$ for the ”Leader”, and 5000$ for participants. Our liberty of association is also restrained. If we strike for one day, our association will be stripped of it’s funding.

    And I tought we were part of the free world. It looks like there’s just a step between democracy and totalitarianism.

  31. russ99 says:

    That little blurb in the Hockey News Draft Guide about a scout comparing Murray to Nick Schultz has me a bit worried…

  32. Captain Obvious says:

    FPB94,

    No good can come of this. I am a proud defender of the liberal arts, inclined to support student movements, and not particularly conservative. Despite all of these things, I think the student unions of Quebec have embarrassed themselves continually throughout this strike. They have done serious harm to their reputations, and more importantly, to the education they have supposedly been receiving. Their actions have been a grave disservice to the ideals of liberal education.

  33. FPB94 says:

    Captain Obvious: Maybe. If you talk about smoke bombs in the metro and the likes of that, it’s really a minority that has nothing to do with all the others.

    Then again I still think there’s no justification for stripping rights like this.

  34. LMHF#1 says:

    FPB94:
    Captain Obvious: Maybe. If you talk about smoke bombs in the metro and the likes of that, it’s really a minority that has nothing to do with all the others.

    Then again I still think there’s no justification for stripping rights like this.

    FPB, If you’d honestly like to talk politics, I’ll bite. Feel free to email me. I’m not sure why you haven’t been able to find an outlet closer to you, but we want to keep this place generally hockey centered correct? This topic would go off the rails from the very beginning.

  35. Ducey says:

    Quebec has just outlawed wearing a red square, with a fine between 1000 and 7000$.

    When they outlaw wearing Oilers sweaters, get back to us. Otherwise, discuss this elsewhere.

  36. Billy Boisey says:

    Any discussion of Craig Button’s ability to evaluate hockey talent should be prefaced with this fact:

    Craig Button released Martin St. Louis for nothing.

    He is an idiot.

    Full stop.

    As to Ryan Murray, I am probably as big a Murray fan as reads this blog, and I have no problem with taking him at anything but the No. 1 pick. But, at 1, you take Yakupov. Otherwise you have to get assets in addition to Murray.

    But with regards to his play, this McDonald quote sums it up:

    “…he does everything so well at such a high level and after a while, you don’t even notice it.”

  37. LMHF#1 says:

    Does Button go on Stauffer’s show intentionally trying to sound nuts?

  38. godot10 says:

    striatic:
    also .. why is nobody talking about the message that would be sent to Justin Schultz by drafting Ryan Murray?

    if i’m Schultz and the Oilers draft Murray, my entire reason for coming to Edmonton – ice time – gets shot down since suddenly i’m competing with a second rookie.

    and even if the Oilers do end up with both, do they really want to bank on 2 rookies playing big minutes taking them to the promised land?

    Justin Schultz and Murray have different skill sets. Murray would be a bird in the hand. You might not catch the one in the bush.

    Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, Nyrop
    McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Del Zotto

    You need to be six deep in good D.

  39. FPB94 says:

    LMHF#1,

    To be honest, I would have thought it would be more alarming than other stuff.

    I really have a hard time caring about anything else. I’l send an email.

  40. FPB94 says:

    Tough i must add i really don’t know how.

  41. Captain Obvious says:

    FPB94,

    These “rights” aren’t being stripped since they don’t exist in the first place. Rather, limitations are being imposed on some in order to defend the “rights” of others. In this case, quite ironically, the right that is being defended is the right of students to an education. This isn’t a violation of democracy, it is the essence of a democracy governed by the rule of law. If anything represents a violation of the principles of democracy it is the actions and attitudes of students who refuse to acknowledge the fundamental reciprocity of rights and responsibilities that lies at the core of civil society.

  42. rickithebear says:

    Tuition: students are subsidised to the tune of 21,000 each. Pay the real costs then bitch.

    Or better yet. Close down half the Departments at university. Set them up at tech schools . students subsidesed to the tune of 7, 000 per student. heck a number of the instructors at tech schools get paid 1/3 to 1/2 the salary and teach at tech and univ.

    No one talking about the hedjuk contract?
    1yr 2M
    last three years:
    hedjuk
    208GM .28GPG .65PPG
    20G/Season 26A/season 46P/season
    Hemsky 2YR 5M/season
    138GM .22GPG .73PPG
    10G/season 23A/season 33P/season

    Damn!
    Good thing hemsky is coring goals at WHC. OH WAIT! Everyone thinks that is a poor measure of a player.

    Guees the last three seasons is what we must trust.

  43. FPB94 says:

    Captain Obvious,

    CO:

    I’m sorry?

    Presumption of guilt isn’t stripping someone’s rights?
    Liberty of association isn’t a right?
    To not be victim of political profiling isn’t a right?
    To not be searched and kept in custody in an arbitrary way isn’t a right?

    In Quebec there is no right to post-secondary education (Ironically). It’s also ironic to ”defend” the right to education while increasing tuition fees by 82%.

    Associations are well in their right to strike. As they are regulated by laws on the same level as syndicates. Do they refuse syndicates the right to strike because a minority ”loses” it’s right to work? No. Because it’s right vs right. Hence majority becomes the determinating factor in the equation.

  44. rickithebear says:

    Damn!

    Wife is editor of the town of Hanna newspaper. Just phoned me up says doing stories for the centennial of hanna.
    People of hanna…………
    She asked me who Jim Nill was? says will be doing an Interview. Voulateered to Help.

    Please honey! Oh Please!

    You get to help with the Questions! Yah Ho?

  45. LMHF#1 says:

    FPB94:
    Tough i must add i really don’t know how.

    E-mail me here: loudmouthhemskyfan1@gmail.com

    Though you need to calm down first and realize that you might be being (and I will submit you are) being horribly misled and getting in with a group of people you really don’t want to be a part of.

    I’m going to take this opportunity to once again bang the drum for bringing in Tim Thomas, Justin Schultz, and Garrison from FLA.

  46. billymadison says:

    Traktor: I don’t agree with Button all the time but he’s seen the majority of the top 60 more than than everyone on this board combined. I don’t think he deserves to be called an idiot.ISS has Murray #3… they also had Jeff Skinner the 31st best NA skater. Every scouting service makes mistakes.I don’t think we can take Button’s word as gospel that Murray is the 7th best D in the draft but clearly there are a lot of good defenders.Yakupov will likely end up the top forward from the draft whereas the top defender might not get drafted until the mid-first round. I don’t know if we have the assets or the GM to pull it off but the smart play would to draft Yakupov and then trade for another 1st in the 10-15 range and grab one of the many D with high potential.

    Absolutely he has, but that also is his job. Its just my opinion obviously, but the guy has opinions that often have no merit or are asinine. Might just be my take though.

    ISS had skinner ranked 9th that year, CSS had him later but i know what you mean. Yeah of course, some players are disliked by some services, why others are favored more . But overall skinner was seen going in the 8-10 range and he did. even bob mckenzie stated skinner may be the best pure goal scorer in the draft that year.

    Murray by all accounts is the safe pick and honestly worse case with him is 35pts/year playing 24 min a night. Hes not a true number 1 but few teams have a definite star number 1 dman. I look at Murrays team this year and see the poor quality of forwards and have a hard time believing he wouldn’t of put up at least 50 pts this year playing for the oil kings.

    I would love to take yaks and a dman but i just dont see the organization making that move. The oilers NEED quality dmen next year. Ryan murray is a quality dman and overall i believe he improves the overall team better than yakupov. Yakupov is BPA but unless you find a number 1 Dman in a trade for that pick, you arn’t improving your hockey club by drafting him IMO. Your getting more skilled and in a year you will still be needing the quality Dman.

  47. Ducey says:

    LMHF#1,

    Re: Garrison

    Don’t you think he benefited substantially from being paired with Campbell? I know nothing about the guy, but his boxcars sure improved season over season.

    I think that if he is being paid to play like he did last year that people are going to be disappointed when he comes to Edmonton and doesn’t get any kind of similar support.

  48. FPB94 says:

    billymadison,

    If you look at Button’s 10 year or so track record, and see that he blew something like 10 or so picks on defensemen (including top picks) and the best he got is Richard Matvichuk…

  49. Cactus says:

    Man, discussing the draft (and thus lacking advanced stats) sure brings out the lunatic opinions on this blog.. I have two “lunacies” of my own to contribute:

    Re: Button. Go take a look at Zona’s consensus top 60 on NHL numbers. He weights scouting services based on their success rates in predicting where people will be drafted. He noted that two in particular get a bump Bob McKenzie (the best) and Craig Button (also pretty accurate). Neither of these guys always get it right but they seem to be pretty good barometers of NHL opinion on prospects – more than I can say about some here.

    Re: Murray. I think he’s a decent to very good defender but ultimately, none of this matters. He doesn’t fit the window for this team and the rebuild so he makes no sense to be drafted. Tambellini is probably gone if the team doesn’t make a jump in the standings this year and a rookie d-man, no matter how heralded never does that (unless your name is Doughty and he’s not a comparable according to the scouts). This doesn’t mean that the Oilers won’t trade down and end up with Murray, but the major factor there will be the help they can acquire immediately..

    Really, this is Yak or trade for immediate help. Nothing else.

  50. sliderule says:

    I like Murray but I don’t think he will ever bring enough offense to be a number one pick.

    As to playing for a bad team I don’t buy that as the reason for the lack of good offensive numbers.On a bad team great players get all the PP time and if they are really that good can elevate the team.One of the excuses for Pouliots poor numbers in 2003 draft was he played for poor team.How did that work out.

  51. godot10 says:

    sliderule:
    I like Murray but I don’t think he will ever bring enoughoffense to be a number one pick.

    As to playing for a bad team I don’t buy that as the reason for the lack of good offensive numbers.On a bad team great players get all the PP time and if they are really that good can elevate the team.One of the excuses for Pouliots poor numbers in 2003 draft was he played for poor team.How did that work out.

    All the scouting reports say he is the best puck mover of the defensemen in the draft. He is going to be moving the puck to Eberle, Hall, and Nugent-Hopkins. Just think how more effective the offense is going to be because the forward get a half stride edge because of a quick accurate outlet pass vs. a half stride penalty, because a defenseman can’t handle the puck.

    The horsepower of a car is wasted without a good transmission.

  52. Woodguy says:

    Yakupov beat Stamkos’ rookie records for the Sting.

    If he was from Weyburn or Markam there wouldn’t be a discussion of who to take first.

    Just heard on the radio that Yakupov has fallen in love with Country Music. He would do well here where you can often find both kinds of music, Country and Western.

    If I had to bet who is going to have the most career points in the NHL between 14,93,4 and Yakupov, I wouldn’t be able to make a choice.

    Everyone who gets paid to handicap the draft has Yakupov first and has had him first all year leading up to the draft.

    The same can’t be said for Hall or RNH.

    Not taking Yakupov means you don’t understand how the draft works.

    If you are offered $5000 in Gold and $4000 in Silver, you don’t take the Silver because you already have some gold.

    You can never have too much gold.

    You can never have too much scoring, even the #1 rated player is only as big as Sidney Crosby.

    The Oilers have chosen well in the first round for a while.

    I hope it continues.

  53. sliderule says:

    One of the things that could affect the pick is Oilers thinking on CBA negotiations.

    If there is going to be a lockout will Yak be more likely to bolt to KHL?

  54. Ryan says:

    russ99,

    Can we get a do over on the 2010 draft? I remember being surprised to see sideburns available at 10, but it also made me nervous…

    Looking back without the 20-20, but with what little more I know about drafting that I did then, I’m not sure it made sense to grab a guy with PRV’s potential ceiling at #10. What did he project out to at the time? A potential 2nd line guy IF he could produce offense otherwise a speedy guy who doesn’t hit or put up points on the 3rd line?

    At the time of the draft, I was hoping that we’d grab Kulikov.

    For this draft, I think the smarter play is to stick with the consensus and try to get another top 12 pick. If you’re lucky, you grab Ceci and at least pick up a guy with a ceiling.

  55. Ryan says:

    sliderule:
    One of the things that could affect the pick is Oilers thinking on CBA negotiations.

    If there is going to be a lockout will Yak be more likely to bolt to KHL?

    More importantly, if there is a season long lockout, do we get a lottery pick for 2013?

  56. Marc says:

    Woodguy:
    Yakupov beat Stamkos’ rookie records for the Sting.

    If he was from Weyburn or Markam there wouldn’t be a discussion of who to take first.

    Just heard on the radio that Yakupov has fallen in love with Country Music.He would do well here where you can often find both kinds of music, Country and Western.

    If I had to bet who is going to have the most career points in the NHL between 14,93,4 and Yakupov, I wouldn’t be able to make a choice.

    Everyone who gets paid to handicap the draft has Yakupov first and has had him first all year leading up to the draft.

    The same can’t be said for Hall or RNH.

    Not taking Yakupov means you don’t understand how the draft works.

    If you are offered $5000 in Gold and $4000 in Silver, you don’t take the Silver because you already have some gold.

    You can never have too much gold.

    You can never have too much scoring, even the #1 rated player is only as big as Sidney Crosby.

    The Oilers have chosen well in the first round for a while.

    I hope it continues.

    Well said. I absolutely 100% agree.

  57. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    One of the things that could affect the pick is Oilers thinking on CBA negotiations.

    If there is going to be a lockout will Yak be more likely to bolt to KHL?

    I’d put the odds on a lock out at +180. Could happen, but not likely.

    Bettman’s league has a new NBC contract and a lot of momentum, he’s going to be loathe to stop that and even though Fehr helped to cancel a MLB season this is a much different situation.

    Average contract is up with the new CBA, revenues up. If there is a lock out, it will be short and I doubt that will happen.

    If Yakupov wanted, he could have been pro already in the KHL, but chose to play CHL.

    That speaks volumes.

  58. godot10 says:

    Woodguy:

    ……

    If he was from Weyburn or Markam there wouldn’t be a discussion of who to take first.

    …….

    If you are offered $5000 in Gold and $4000 in Silver, you don’t take the Silver because you already have some gold.

    You can never have too much gold.

    You can never have too much scoring, even the #1 rated player is only as big as Sidney Crosby.

    But we were having this discussion last year, and Nugent-Hopkins was from Burnaby and Larsson was from Sweden.

    Taking $5000 of Gold over $4000 of Silver is only a sure thing if you sell it immediately (but not quite a sure thing because paper currency can become worthless pretty quickly, something the world may learn again in the next few years as the euro zone is ripped apart). The gold/silver ratio is pretty stretched now in favor of gold. Conceivably $4000 of Silver might be a better deal in the long run.

  59. Ryan says:

    Woodguy,

    Well, the Oilers have done pretty well for the most part.

    In a redraft starting with 2009,

    2009 redraft, I would go with Kulikov or Ells over sideburns, 100%
    2010 redraft, I would take Seguin over Hall, 100%
    2011 redraft, I would take Nuge again, of course.

    I can’t remember how Bullish the LT crowd was on sideburns in 2009? The consensus I recall at the ole OMB was kulikov

    For 2010, most here at LT were bullish for Seguin vs. Hall

    For 2011, most were late hold outs for Couturier, but later switched to the Nuge.

    Either way, the consensus view among bloggers and ne’er-do-wells who waste too much time commenting on blogs probably beat SMB for 1st picks.

    Not to say most of us know much of anything…

  60. Ryan says:

    Dumb question.

    If it is a season long lockout, where do we pick in 2013? Is there another lottery for us?

    Woodguy: I’d put the odds on a lock out at +180.Could happen, but not likely.

    Bettman’s league has a new NBC contract and a lot of momentum, he’s going to be loathe to stop that and even though Fehr helped to cancel a MLB season this is a much different situation.

    Average contract is up with the new CBA, revenues up.If there is a lock out, it will be short and I doubt that will happen.

    If Yakupov wanted, he could have been pro already in the KHL, but chose to play CHL.

    That speaks volumes.

  61. FPB94 says:

    What I learned along the years is that, with defensemen you really don’t know much.

    At one point Pietrangelo looked like a slow guy who maybe had difficulty assuming the transition. Suddendly he’s challenging Doughty at the top of the mountain.

  62. Ryan says:

    godot10,

    I agree, let’s use our #1 pick to grab a smooth skating dman who lacks top end offense, can move the puck and has hockey sense, but projects to be a defensive defender who lacks a physical edge and might be a #2 or #3 dman at best instead of a guy who projects to be an elite top line player. Makes sense to me.

    You’ve convinced me.

    That being said, I’ll still sign a contract with you to trade you $4000 worth of sliver at today’s prices for $5000 worth of gold, again at today’s prices in say five years time… That work for you?

  63. Maverick says:

    Woodguy:
    Yakupov beat Stamkos’ rookie records for the Sting.

    If he was from Weyburn or Markam there wouldn’t be a discussion of who to take first.

    Just heard on the radio that Yakupov has fallen in love with Country Music.He would do well here where you can often find both kinds of music, Country and Western.

    If I had to bet who is going to have the most career points in the NHL between 14,93,4 and Yakupov, I wouldn’t be able to make a choice.

    Everyone who gets paid to handicap the draft has Yakupov first and has had him first all year leading up to the draft.

    The same can’t be said for Hall or RNH.

    Not taking Yakupov means you don’t understand how the draft works.

    If you are offered $5000 in Gold and $4000 in Silver, you don’t take the Silver because you already have some gold.

    You can never have too much gold.

    You can never have too much scoring, even the #1 rated player is only as big as Sidney Crosby.

    The Oilers have chosen well in the first round for a while.

    I hope it continues.

    AHEM!!!!

  64. Woodguy says:

    godot10: But we were having this discussion last year, and Nugent-Hopkins was from Burnaby and Larsson was from Sweden.

    Taking $5000 of Gold over $4000 of Silver is only a sure thing if you sell it immediately (but not quite a sure thing because paper currency can become worthless pretty quickly, something the world may learn again in the next few years as the euro zone is ripped apart).The gold/silver ratio is pretty stretched now in favor of gold.Conceivably $4000 of Silver might be a better deal in the long run.

    No one is seriously talking about taking Murray #1 except Oilers fans, and the Oilers are making their intentions vague, which should be expected.

    Maybe the Gold/Silver comparison isn’t as apt as I would hope, but the point stands.

    Scoring is always tougher and more expensive to acquire than #1 Dmen.

    Always.

    Gold is always worth more than Silver.

    Perhaps I should have said that if you are offered 10 oz of Gold and 10 oz of Silver you always take the Gold.

  65. Woodguy says:

    Ryan:
    Dumb question.

    If it is a season long lockout, where do we pick in 2013?Is there another lottery for us?

    I don’t know how that works.

    I really doubt we have to think about it though.

  66. Mr DeBakey says:

    I can’t remember how Bullish the LT crowd was on sideburns in 2009? The consensus I recall at the ole OMB was kulikov

    Paajarvi was to be long gone before the Oilers’ turn
    Glennie was to be the man.

  67. Woodguy says:

    Maverick: AHEM!!!!

    Did

    Woodguy: No one is seriously talking about taking Murray #1 except Oilers fans, and the Oilers are making their intentions vague, which should be expected.

    Maybe the Gold/Silver comparison isn’t as apt as I would hope, but the point stands.

    Scoring is always tougher and more expensive to acquire than #1 Dmen.

    Always.

    Gold is always worth more than Silver.

    Perhaps I should have said that if you are offered 10 oz of Gold and 10 oz of Silver you always take the Gold.

    It should be noted that some don’t have Murray having the tool kit to be a top pairing Dman.

    He may.

    The fact that there is some question is a concern.

    Someone taken that high should have no concerns about the ability to be able to excel to the highest caliber at his position.

    Not that the prognosticators are always right.

    The fact that #1 Dmen come from all over the draft dispels that notion.

    That fact that #1 D come from all over the draft is always a big yellow light on selecting one so high.

  68. regwald says:

    Woodguy: I don’t know how that works.

    I really doubt we have to think about it though.

    Someone posted a link to the NHL site a couple weeks back related to the Crosby sweepstakes. The long and short of it was that the Oilers would be punished by their lotto wins and placement the past 5 years in the draft. They would have less of a chance of winning a special draft lotto.

  69. Woodguy says:

    Maverick: AHEM!!!!

    Did I re-right something you wrote?

    If so, I apologize, but I was not plagiarizing, it was all off the top of my head.

  70. DSF says:

    Woodguy: I don’t know how that works.

    I really doubt we have to think about it though.

    After the last lockout…all teams had an equal chance in the draft lottery.

    Pittsburgh won.

  71. speeds says:

    Cactus:
    Re: Button.Go take a look at Zona’s consensus top 60 on NHL numbers.He weights scouting services based on their success rates in predicting where people will be drafted.He noted that two in particular get a bump Bob McKenzie (the best) and Craig Button (also pretty accurate).Neither of these guys always get it right but they seem to be pretty good barometers of NHL opinion on prospects – more than I can say about some here.

    McKenzie and Button are trying to do different things.

    McKenzie is trying to find the consensus rankings, but Button is not. Button is like a scouting service, in that he’s trying to rank the players based on how he thinks they’ll turn out.

  72. Woodguy says:

    speeds: McKenzie and Button are trying to do different things.

    McKenzie is trying to find the consensus rankings, but Button is not.Button is like a scouting service, in that he’s trying to rank the players based on how he thinks they’ll turn out.

    And yet Button still has the 2nd best record in predicting the draft.

  73. PunjabiOil says:

    Not taking Yakupov means you don’t understand how the draft works.

    If you are offered $5000 in Gold and $4000 in Silver, you don’t take the Silver because you already have some gold.

    You can never have too much gold.

    Apt statement.

  74. gogliano says:

    I’m thinking of giving up my day job and moving to Edmonton to sell silver. Preferably silver for gold trades.

    Ryan Murray looks like he’ll be a nice player. He also looks like a player you could conceivably hope for (upside wise) with a top ten pick in most years.

    If the Oil really want to draft for need and really believe D is where their need is (I think it is center) I say take Yakupov #1 and then pick D for the rest of the draft. I doubt the result would be worse than picking Murray #1 and going for Fs/Ds later on.

  75. speeds says:

    Woodguy: And yet Button still has the 2nd best record in predicting the draft.

    Right, I guess I just wonder how much of that is coincidence/luck/sample size, whatever you want to call it?

  76. Woodguy says:

    speeds: Right, I guess I just wonder how much of that is coincidence/luck/sample size, whatever you want to call it?

    I have no idea.

    Haven’t looked that hard at it.

    Zona might know.

  77. Woodguy says:

    Thinking of PHX as a trade partner, they have Brandon Gormley bubbling under along with Runblad.

    OEL might be expendable for the right player.

    Doesn’t mean Yak. Hall and Eberle are in that conversation too.

    Easier to trade someone you don’t know though.

    RNH is the only untouchable though.

    He’s going to be something else.

  78. speeds says:

    Woodguy: I have no idea.

    Haven’t looked that hard at it.

    Zona might know.

    I guess I just wonder if I should be more confident in the guy doing a good job predicting something when he is trying to predict something, vs the guy who is making one kind of list that ends up predicting something else pretty well.

  79. spoiler says:

    Watching the Memorial Cup…

    1. The Ice Sucks

    2. Reinhart isn’t the brightest player in the world, but he does a lot of things well. Mobility is a question too, but might depend on recent his last growth spurt was.

    3. #15 on the blue line for the Cats has a NHL level shot.

    4. Gernat’s at least 2 yrs away

    5. I like Pelss’ game, a lot, if only he could find some offense

    6. I don’t think Samuelsson will go in the top 30. He has size and strength tho, so who knows.

    7. Gormley’s having a nice game, probably the most ready player on the ice. Will the Yotes keep all 3 of Yandle, OEL and Gormley?

    The audio of the Video Review on this 2nd Cats’ goal was utterly wacked! Completely buggered up.

  80. Rebilled says:

    Whoa, the Oil Kings just got screwed by that French ref. All audio caught on tape.

  81. Maverick says:

    Woodguy: Did I re-right something you wrote?If so, I apologize, but I was not plagiarizing, it was all off the top of my head.

    LOL Nah all is good! It would have made sense if I would have finished my thoughts right after instead of being distracted by the Oil Kings game.

    I was going to reply by saying Ahem, and Thank you! I have been trying to explain to others why I would rather pick Yakupov – scoring over Murray – all round defenseman. I like your gold versus silver example, I should ask you if I can use that in my defense? (no pun intended)

  82. Rebilled says:

    Whoa Lowe

  83. Rebilled says:

    Wow

  84. spoiler says:

    Poetic justice. The ice is horrible. Legault hasn’t stopped all game.

  85. Cactus says:

    speeds: McKenzie and Button are trying to do different things.

    McKenzie is trying to find the consensus rankings, but Button is not.Button is like a scouting service, in that he’s trying to rank the players based on how he thinks they’ll turn out.

    Speeds, I’m aware that they’re both doing different things but that’s tangential to my point. All I was trying to argue is that while ripping Button might be fashionable with some of the people here, he seems to be closer to the NHL consensus than most of us would be (and closer than other scouting services). That doesn’t mean he’s always right but find me public prognosticator who is batting 1.000 and I’ll happily concede. In lieu of that, I’ll take the guy who seems to be on the same wavelength as other GMs, good and bad.

  86. Cactus says:

    I know that some people can’t understand why the Oilers haven’t clearly telegraphed that they’re taking Yakupov, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a slam dunk all the same. Here are a few reasons why they might want to flirt with Murray, Galchenyuk, etc.:

    -Add to the suspense (we know they like to put on a show)
    -Potentially add trade potential with Columbus if they feel they really won’t take a Russian
    -Protect themselves against a potential catastrophe where they’re forced to go another direction (i.e. it is discovered that Yakupov is a Russian mafia kingpin and he’s arrested – they’d rather be able to tell Murray or whoever that he was their “first choice”)

    These may strike some as flimsy reasons and perhaps they are, but a good GM will seek any advantage he can get. It makes sense to remain mysterious.

  87. Bar_Qu says:

    OKC up at the end of the 3rd 5-1, PRV 0-1-1 +1 so far, Harski 1-0-1 +2.

    Good night thus far.

  88. Bar_Qu says:

    OKC up at the end of the 3rd 5-1, PRV 0-2-2 +3 so far, Harski 1-0-1 +2.

    Good night thus far.

  89. Woodguy says:

    Ryan:
    Woodguy,

    Well, the Oilers have done pretty well for the most part.

    In a redraft starting with 2009,

    2009 redraft, I would go with Kulikov or Ells over sideburns, 100%
    2010 redraft, I would take Seguin over Hall, 100%
    2011 redraft, I would take Nuge again, of course.

    I can’t remember how Bullish the LT crowd was on sideburns in 2009?The consensus I recall at the ole OMB was kulikov

    For 2010, most here at LT were bullish for Seguin vs. Hall

    For 2011, most were late hold outs for Couturier, but later switched to the Nuge.

    Either way, the consensus view among bloggers and ne’er-do-wells who waste too much time commenting on blogs probably beat SMB for 1st picks.

    Not to say most of us know much of anything…

    Go back one more year and in 2008 you have Eberle 22nd. Right where MacKenzie had him. In a redraft he goes top 5.

    My re-draft of 2008 first round is Stamkos (1), Doughty (2), Pietrangelo (4), Karlsson (15), Eberle (22)…., Carlson (27) and Del Zotto (20) are the next two.

    2009 – I was very happy they got MPS as he was rated 8th. I do not remember anyone talking Kulikov there. Maybe someone was. I’m not a draftnik like LT, but I followed it a bit and I’d need to see proof anyone was talking about Kulikov there.

    He may go there in a re-draft, but even with a horrid 2nd year, MPS is 10th from that draft class in NHL points and 6th or so among F’s. He’s fine and will get better.

    2010 – I like Seguin due soley to high scoring, big RH C’s don’t fall out of trees, but this one did so take him, but Hall was a fine pick. Seguin had a very, very good 2nd year, Hall beat him 1st year. If Hall doesn’t become injury prone, it could still be close, but I like big RH C’s.

    2011- I think RNH is special. He does things only a few can do.

  90. Woodguy says:

    speeds: I guess I just wonder if I should be more confident in the guy doing a good job predicting something when heis trying to predict something, vs the guy who is making one kind of list that ends up predicting something else pretty well.

    That’s fair.

  91. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: 7. Gormley’s having a nice game, probably the most ready player on the ice. Will the Yotes keep all 3 of Yandle, OEL and Gormley?

    Don’t forget about Runblad. He’s better than Gormley at this point.

  92. gogliano says:

    Cactus:
    I know that some people can’t understand why the Oilers haven’t clearly telegraphed that they’re taking Yakupov, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a slam dunk all the same.Here are a few reasons why they might want to flirt with Murray, Galchenyuk, etc.:

    -Add to the suspense (we know they like to put on a show)
    -Potentially add trade potential with Columbus if they feel they really won’t take a Russian
    -Protect themselves against a potential catastrophe where they’re forced to go another direction (i.e. it is discovered that Yakupov is a Russian mafia kingpin and he’s arrested – they’d rather be able to tell Murray or whoever that he was their “first choice”)

    These may strike some as flimsy reasons and perhaps they are, but a good GM will seek any advantage he can get.It makes sense to remain mysterious.

    I buy all this. The incentives are all stacked in favor of not boldly declaring your #1. I’m not too worried until they actually call out Murray’s name. But if they do and call it out at #1 it’ll be a Messier for Steven Rice low point in Oiler fandom.

  93. Woodguy says:

    Maverick,

    I get it.

    Looked like an unfinished thought.

  94. Woodguy says:

    Cactus:
    I know that some people can’t understand why the Oilers haven’t clearly telegraphed that they’re taking Yakupov, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a slam dunk all the same.Here are a few reasons why they might want to flirt with Murray, Galchenyuk, etc.:

    -Add to the suspense (we know they like to put on a show)
    -Potentially add trade potential with Columbus if they feel they really won’t take a Russian
    -Protect themselves against a potential catastrophe where they’re forced to go another direction (i.e. it is discovered that Yakupov is a Russian mafia kingpin and he’s arrested – they’d rather be able to tell Murray or whoever that he was their “first choice”)

    These may strike some as flimsy reasons and perhaps they are, but a good GM will seek any advantage he can get.It makes sense to remain mysterious.

    There is zero reason why they should telegraph who they want.

    Its sets the market, and why set the market when you have what is most valuable?

    Let the buyers guess and set the market higher.

    I was really grumpy when MBS said there was no clear #1.

    In retrospect (I hope) they never came out and said Hall or RNH either.

  95. Jimmy says:

    Strange that DSF didn’t post the score and box score from the OKC game…

  96. oilswell says:

    Braintrust,
    I’m not sure why you think Hall would want Murray over Yakupov. My thought was that Hall would love to have Yakupov on the other wing. Why wouldn’t he be interested in playing 20 minutes a night with him on the line? Also, he’s a bit of a hockey junky and might know one or two things about consensus opinions of scouts for #1 picks, and whether the Oilers would be idiots to pass on Yakupov.

  97. VOR says:

    Scouting is never going to be an easy job.

    How confident are you that you’d know talent if you saw it?

    I’ve lived long enough to not be too sure. I’ve sat in a freezing gymnasium and recognized greatness and in a scorching hot nightclub and not known epic genius when it actually sweated on me. The noise to signal ratio can be very large and context matters.

    In the freezing gym scouts had come from college programs all over North America. They were there, well with one exception, to watch a powerhouse American high school team from southern California loaded with future NBA stars destroy a little private school from Vancouver Island. It was and is to this day the worst basketball mismatch I have ever seen. A well oiled machine of huge men against a bunch of frightened kids.

    Except the Canadian team decides to play David. That team is anchored by a guard who seems to think he is a forward, can’t play defense, never heard of passing and yet somehow he holds them in it. He was amazing. The thing is all those scouts knew that skinny, short Canadian kids with no defensive skills will never play NCAA division I basketball so they ignored the noise and focussed on all that big American talent. All except, of course, Dale Davey from little Santa Clara State. He like me realized there was something very special about that kid from Vancouver Island. Dale has always said he knew he was in the presence of a kid who wouldn’t just turn Santa Clara State into a college power but would dominate the NBA. The only reason of course that he was even there and looking at the right player was because he had been sent a tipsheet, a video complilation of the best of Steve Nash. Otherwise he would have been as blind as all the other college scouts. Recently, Jeremy Lin proved that you can watch a kid repeatedly and if you have a prejudice not see the talent. Asian men (like scrawny Canadians) can’t play college ball never mind go on to the NBA.

    Even if you can get past all the biases that blind us you can still be distracted and miss what is right in front of your nose. I sat, I am guessing it was the summer of 1973, in a little box of a room, a second floor nightclub (if you can call a place that holds sixty people if you all stand up and hug each other a nightclub). No air conditioning, middle of July, New York, you get the idea. The two young women who dragged me to this club wanted a male companion so it wouldn’t be obvious they were wantabee groupies. I wanted them (individually or collectively). That was yet another distraction. Then the two acts both had sound equipment designed to play venues that hold a thousand people, so we aren’t listening to music. We are being blasted by a wall of sound. I just want to run screaming from the room but stay because I am still hoping to get sex. The first guy couldn’t speak English, well I think he thought he could, and maybe without being stoned he could have. He keeps singing the same song over and over again because he can’t remember how it goes. The second act is fighting with his band. They are making up derogatory nicknames and sharing them with the audience. This guy can’t seem to decide if he is folk, rock, country, or a poor Leonard Cohen cover band. I am literally a few feet from these two men as they try to entertain, mostly they are shaking off sweat like a wet dog drying itself. Especially the stoner with the dreadlocks.

    Out of that entire evening I remember three words the one guy sang, and only because he did it over and over again, “I shot the Sheriff.” Just four nights later both these guys would be “discovered”. Enough people the night I was there knew they were in the presence of genius that on their last night performing back to back the room would be packed with industry people from all over the US and England. Unlike me some people could look past the distractions and see Bob Marley and reggae as the next big thing. Apparently I was almost the only person who didn’t understand that the other guy was something very special. All I remember was his bandmates sarcastically making fun of his perfectionism on stage by saying, “Yes, Boss, No, Boss, Whatever you say, Boss.” The Boss stuck to him like glue and he has apparently always hated it.

    So when we start criticizing scouts and saying this list is better or that guy is an idiot maybe we ought to give a thought to the men (and these days women) who haunt arenas all over the world looking for the Next One. It is a damn difficult job. You do it because you are hoping to one day stumble on the player everybody else missed. They pray that on that day the zamboni doesn’t explode, their spouse phone to say you are never home and I am leaving you, or that the kid they are meant to see doesn’t have a cold. That they ever get it right is something of a miracle.

  98. MrSmitty says:

    Matt.N: http://thetalentcode.com/2010/05/05/identifying-talent-what-really-matters/

    Strangely after reading that, despite the differences between guitar playing and hockey I would say Taylor Hall is alot like Slash in that article. I hope …. No, I know he will bring the Oilers back to glory.

  99. nelson88 says:

    VOR,

    Good stories. You must be old as dirt. ;)

  100. Zack says:

    If anyone is I interested I took notes on all of Ryan Murray’s goals, this past season (regular and playoffs) and last seasons playoffs as well. He scored the majority of goals off slap shots, pretty good shot in my opinion, I think his offensive game is quite underrated. What ever team ends up with Murray will really add to their defensive core, even if he pans out to be a 2-3 guy.

  101. FastOil says:

    “Next year’s first rounder shouldn’t be off limits, if we can get the right player.”

    I am far more comfortable moving this year’s first then next. MacKinnon is the closest thing to a no brainer, possible generational talent that has come down (up?) the pipe in a while. Certainly in the Oiler’s bottom years.

    Want to talk about mistakes in strategy, that’s a golden one. There is a very good chance this team lottery picks again. I would say much higher than that it scratches and crawls out of the basement.

    Brilliant summer trades and deals, hoped for yearly, are likely not going to happen. And Khabi is going to play out his contract. Whitney too. I’ll call that as long as ST is on the job, nothing much happens until the team starts winning through the sheer inertia of so many quality picks. Then perhaps some hole filling.

  102. mustang says:

    billymadison: Button is an idiot in my opinion. Listening to his comments and draft rankings sometimes, its clear why he does not have an NHL job anymore.

    ISS has murray #3, highest ranked dman, Bob Mckenzie has Murray #3, and CSS has murray ranked 2 best north american skater. Im going to go with the majority on this one, and not Button.

    Murray probably shouldn’t be taken number 1, but in my opinion he is the best dman in this draft right now

    You figure Button is an idiot
    Those are pretty strong words for a man who was part of a team that won 2 stanley cups when he was director of player personal. I don’t always agree with him but he forgot more about hockey than most people on this board will ever know, I personally agree with him about Dumba being the top dman prospect in this draft, his ceiling is sky high, his draw back is his size and if his game will translate to the NHL if he doesn’t get bigger, big risk taking him to high, but saying that RNH had the same question mark with regards to his size. I agree with LT Murray is kinda like Chris Phillips, good player but a number 1 pick could probably be used to draft someone else

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