TOM RENNEY 11-12: TELL ME WHY

The Edmonton Oilers are really good at one thing: saying goodbye to coaches.

  1. Did you like him? Sure, I think he was a reasonable sort.
  2. Is he gone? I think so, pretty tough to accept coming back after being left to flap in the wind for 6 weeks.
  3. So he’s gone for sure? It’s not 100%, but the optics would be terrible. “We waited to see if something decent appeared but when it didn’t we had leftovers. Here’s leftovers!” How do you spin that?
  4. Would you be shocked to your shoes if he returns? In my time as an Oiler fan, we’ve suffered through locusts, pestilence, violence, George Burnet, JF Jacques on the top line and whale hunting. If they announce Dale Hunter as the head coach Oiler fans will take it in stride.
  5. Kind of like yesterday’s papers? Well that’s a Stones song but yeah.
  6. Speaking of songs, this is a rather strange choice. It’s about transition and I think that’s Renney. Precision–represented by the clean, beautiful accoustic guitar–but lacking the ripping guitar parts Neil gave his greatest songs.
  7. So Renney has clarity but no passion? I’d say more like he SEEMS to have clarity but keeps it locked in a cabinet. He’s not a poor coach, but he seems to have gaps or twitches. Sees the road but drives on the road allowance just to make sure he has that option.
  8. Egads, you’re off the meds. What? Tom Renney didn’t really use this roster as he should have; maybe he was trying to protect the kids, but maybe he just got caught up in the early season glory and decided Ryan Smyth was 27.
  9. So? they won. But they lost Paajarvi, almost lost Gagner and sat on Omark until he expired. Sweet Jesus that was criminal.
  10. What else? I think he probably lost some of the team with the way he handled things early on in the season. For instance, he said he would never call people out and then did just that with Gagner.
  11. Oh lord, someone did a bad turn to Gagner. Bring out the firing squad! Well, Gagner is part of the young cluster that should be driving results in the future, so it might be an idea not to lose him along the way.
  12. What else? Renney seemed to be stubborn with the goalies. Devan Dubnyk had to play lights out down the stretch to get the job and when he finally did the coach was still rambling on. And mind, this was after the young goalie had taken the job and beaten the old guy to death with his save percentage.
  13. Khabibulin still has some left. Very little. We’ve talked about that.
  14. What did he do well? Renney’s special teams looked good this past season and he certainly let the gifted forwards run free.
  15. And he didn’t have the horses. No, that’s the one reason I think they might want to bring him back for at least another season. Better the devil you know and these kids (like Gagner) must be shellshocked from the changing tones and voices.
  16. You’re a little wishy washy here. In or out? Out if they can grab MacT or McLellan, in if its Sutter.
  17. Really? Yeah. I think Renney is probably inside the top 20 in NHL coaching aplomb and it is unwise to flush him for a similar coach. Wait to get “the guy” even if it is a year from now.
  18. Who’s the best coach available? Who doesn’t have a contract?
  19. Should they let him free if they’re not going to use him? Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Renney is an NHL coach and one assumes he’d like to go on being one.
  20. What’s his next job? Head coach, Washington Capitals.

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60 Responses to "TOM RENNEY 11-12: TELL ME WHY"

  1. Bar_Qu says:

    I was trying to figure out who were the coaches available, and since I am busy limiting democratic freedoms for all but the citizens whom I approve of, I couldn’t find that information.

    Who is available?

    Because, Renney is gone.

  2. BlacqueJacque says:

    At this point, you’re just trolling people with the MacT references. Even you don’t like him that much, to bring him up every time. Especially when you lead in with absurdities like “If they can grab MacT”. Bahahaha

  3. Lowetide says:

    Actually, I am a fan of MacT and would consider it great fortune if he returns. IN FACT, if Craig MacTavish returns I’m going to turn this into the SUMMER OF CRAIG in which we share stories of why Toby Petersen is worthy and Rob Schremp is not.

  4. stevezie says:

    I hope it’s kosher ot change the subject so soon in the thread, but this Devils forecheck is beautiful and the perfect antidote to the bullshit hockey the Rangers play.

    (I say antidote as a fan- as in it’s exciting, not as in I think the Rangers are toast.)

  5. danny says:

    Bobby Mac tweets
    ” lodge brothers in coaching fraternity hoping he’s not being kept on in EDM only to be cut loose later when no jobs are available.”

  6. stevezie says:

    danny,

    Well since this organization has developed an otherwise sterling reputation as an exemplary employer over the past few years, I assume no one will hold this against us.

  7. B_Oilers says:

    From Bob McKenzie on Twitter: “Crickets on EDM coaching front. Renney’s contract expiring. So is GM Tambellini’s tho most believe Tambellini extension is done. Renney’s lodge brothers in coaching fraternity hoping he’s not being kept on in EDM only to be cut loose later when no jobs are available.”
    If they don’t re-sign Renney, this may not look too good on the Oilers organization.

  8. godot10 says:

    B_Oilers:
    From Bob McKenzie on Twitter: “Crickets on EDM coaching front. Renney’s contract expiring. So is GM Tambellini’s tho most believe Tambellini extension is done. Renney’s lodge brothers in coaching fraternity hoping he’s not being kept on in EDM only to be cut loose later when no jobs are available.”
    If they don’t re-sign Renney, this may not look too good on the Oilers organization.

    This is all on Renney. If he wants to look for other jobs, he can ask the Oilers to be released from the last 2 months of his contract. Nobody is forcing him to hang around and wait. It is his own choice to wait.

  9. godot10 says:

    It would be unfair to Todd Nelson to distract him from the AHL playoffs to prepare to interview for the NHL job.

  10. rich says:

    LT: Great series and I think the capper has been the recap on management and Tom Renney. Glad you have added this aspect.

    I couldn’t agree more w/your recap on Renney – plusses and minuses. To me, his mis-management of DD has just been unacceptable and I still don’t get it. My sense is he was pretty much forced to start playing him at the end of last season and if left to walk his own path (Renney), Khabi would have played more than he did the last 6 weeks.

    Not saying that DD is the goalie of the future, but just the fact that we still don’t know this by now is inexcusable.

    I will not be surprised though if Renney returns because most nights, he was bringing a knife to a gunfight and I think management does recognize that. But even if he comes back, I don’t think he’ll finish next season because I don’t see the team improving enough without major changes on the back end, changes that Tambellini does not seem capable of executing properly.

  11. jake70 says:

    Wonder if they offered him a 1-year and he wants more…maybe at an impasse of sorts? Renney does deserve credit for having faced the media for 82 games, most of them he probably wanted to crawl into a hole afterward.

  12. B_Oilers says:

    I don’t think it’s “all” on Renney, true he has the ability to look but he’s technically still under contract right? I’m sure by now he’s checking around but I still think it’s going have a negative effect on the organization. I wonder if they’ve told him anything, or if they’re waiting for the playoffs and the world’s to be over.
    The Oil definitely need to play DD more, regardless of who’s coaching. He was a better option than NK

    godot10: This is all on Renney.If he wants to look for other jobs, he can ask the Oilers to be released from the last 2 months of his contract.Nobody is forcing him to hang around and wait.It is his own choice to wait.

    godot10: This is all on Renney.If he wants to look for other jobs, he can ask the Oilers to be released from the last 2 months of his contract.Nobody is forcing him to hang around and wait.It is his own choice to wait.

  13. Gret99zky says:

    Gawd please no to Sutter.

    That scowl, scowling down at our blessed children each and every night? No thanks.

    I’d rather Bucky take the reins than Sutter.

  14. russ99 says:

    There’s also the potential lockout to consider.

    But that shouldn’t factor one way or the other in regards to Renney.

    IMO he’s gone, and while I’d like it to be about misuse of the young skill players not on the first line, but to me it has lots to do with Hall and his very public reactions to some of Renney’s decisions later in the season. At that point it crossed from his snub of a couple of Swedish kids to affecting the future.

    You need a coach that will work with the future keystone player of the franchise, not alienate him.

  15. sliderule says:

    I don’t think Renney should be resigned.

    Allowed the Oil to pick two of his assistants .

    When players like Barker and Peckham made one turnover after another didn’t hold them accountable.

    Let veterans like Belanger ,Smyth and Horcoff dictate playing time.

    The Oil need a strong coach whetther Mctavish or Sutter is the answer I don’t know but he has to be strong.

  16. Ryan says:

    stevezie,

    I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic?

    Do fans of other teams fret over these matters as much as we do?

    Things talked about lately…and over the years.

    Omg no don’t burry Horcoff in the minors, that’ll look bad and no one will want to come here if we do that. Hasn’t seemed to hurt NY in attracting free agents.

    Or don’t take the “c” from a spent Rifles… That will look bad. Nevermind that SJ took the C from Marleau.

    That being said, I do think the optics look crappy in this situation and I’m not defending 3.0, but I don’t think there’s much reason to fret.

    Agree somewhat with LT. The problem with replacing coaches is timing obviously. The Oil would have more leverage perhaps if they keep rennet instead of hiring someone else if it’s not the guy.

  17. Ryan says:

    Oh, and though Tom Renney’s a pretty nice guy, we shouldn’t feel bad for him. After all, he’s a professional who’s paid more money per year than most of us combined with the exception of maybe Woodguy’ and a couple others:)

    That and what other team in this league would even think of retaining a coach with back to back 30 -29 finishes except the oilers?

  18. Ducey says:

    I expect a lot of GM’s are looking at the extreme defense being played in the playoffs and wondering if their coach is a good fit for that style.

    Renney doesn’t seem well suited for that type of game. Of course, maybe the team wasn’t either.

    If the Oilers played a system like LA or NASH would their defence and goalie be better ? I think so.

    I don’t think Sutter is the answer but I’d be willing to roll the dice with Ralph Krueger. Lowe was on the radio the other day going on about how he brought the Swiss in from the wilderness. He mentioned how their played a tight system but was it was aggressive and that they like to play physical. Music to my ears.

    And Ralph seemed to make the right moves when Renney was bonked in the head.

  19. spoiler says:

    Some possibilities on why we haven’t heard on Renney:

    1. This is Katz’s team and a slow, painstaking management evaluation is his mandate and method.

    2. Renney pissed off Hall and Gagner, blew Paajarvi, Omark and Lander’s seasons. He didn’t improve in the won/loss column. Mishandling the goalies. Pulling the goalie…

    On the other hand special teams improved greatly. The powerplay was good for the first time since the discovery of fire. Management doesn’t know whether to fire him for his errors or extend him for his successes.

    3. Sutter is willing to work here as second banana in order to stay in Alberta. Renney doesn’t want an associate coach, remembering the details of his own coup d’etat. Management has given Renney time to think about it, because it’s accept Sutter or no extension. Ball is in Renney’s court.

    4. Both he and Tambo are hired and the Oilers just want to get through the scouting meeting and the WHC before announcing it.

  20. spoiler says:

    rich:
    LT: Great series and I think the capper has been the recap on management and Tom Renney.Glad you have added this aspect.

    This.

    This series was a real pleasure yet again, LT. The humour from the split personalities was as good as it has ever been. No, better. And while I don’t always agree, I always enjoy reading. Thank you for all this work. That was a long slog, but Neil sure helps keep the spring in our steps.

  21. Oilogosphere.com says:

    Ducey:
    I expect a lot of GM’s are looking at the extreme defense being played in the playoffs and wondering if their coach is a good fit for that style.

    Renney doesn’t seem well suited for that type of game.Of course, maybe the team wasn’t either.

    If the Oilers played a system like LA or NASH would their defence and goalie be better ?I think so.

    I don’t think Sutter is the answer but I’d be willing to roll the dice with Ralph Krueger.Lowe was on the radio the other day going on about how he brought the Swiss in from the wilderness. He mentioned how their played a tight system but was it was aggressive and that they like to play physical.Music to my ears.

    And Ralph seemed to make the right moves when Renney was bonked in the head.

    Really? I recall everyone complaining that Ralph was coaching nearly identical, if not favouring the vets even more, than Renney. Smyth, Horcoff and Belanger were all soaking up the ice time under Ralph when Renney was out for those games.

  22. Ryan says:

    spoiler,

    As good as the PP was last year, well, he did get some help from the gifted ones esp Nuge.

    One oddity I find in terms of emotional bias around here is it’s fair game to talk about getting rid of bulin any way possible, but saying the same for horcoff is akin to blasphemy.

    Considering guys like Goc and Handzel are tough minutes centers eating horcoff’s lunch for around $1.7 ish cap hits…. You could free up 3.8 million in cap space while making a serious upgrade….

    Upgrading horcs while saving 3.8 million in cap space vs trying to replace bulin and eating his 3.75 makes less sense to me.

    If there’s no amnesty in the next cba, maybe you ride out horcs contract for one more year. After that, what’re the chances he plays for the Barron’s for $4 million.

  23. Oilogosphere.com says:

    I find it very bizarre that anyone would complain about the Oilers handling of Renney. Why wouldn’t you want the team to do what is best for themselves. Doing what is best for their staff is why they were cued the “old boys club” a few years back. They need to make the right decision, make damn sure they don’t over look any possible candidates. You release Renney now and a better alternative isn’t available you just shot yourself in the foot. You sign Renney now and suddenly a very successful coach becomes available, again you’ve just shot yourself in the foot. Best option is to wait.

  24. Oilogosphere.com says:

    Ryan:
    spoiler,

    As good as the PP was last year, well, he did get some help from the gifted ones esp Nuge.

    One oddity I find in terms of emotional bias around here is it’s fair game to talk about getting rid of bulin any way possible, but saying the same for horcoff is akin to blasphemy.

    Considering guys like Goc and Handzel are tough minutes centers eating horcoff’s lunch for around $1.7 ish cap hits….You could free up 3.8 million in cap space while making a serious upgrade….

    Upgrading horcs while saving 3.8 million in cap space vs trying to replace bulin and eating his 3.75 makes less sense to me.

    If there’s no amnesty in the next cba, maybe you ride out horcs contract for one more year.After that, what’re the chances he playsfor the Barron’s for $4 million.

    You still need to replace Horcoff and Horcoff’s buyout goes against the cap. After that you’re pretty much at the same cap hit with Horcoff on the roster.

    Getting a third line centre will likely cost 2.5 million minimum. Horcoff’s buyout hit will be 2.5 million on average for 4 years. Essentially we are now sitting at 5 million for a 2.5 million 3rd liner for the next 4 years. It’s the same deal, if not worse, than just keeping him on the roster.

    It’s a lose lose situation whichever way we spin it. Hell, they could always burry the guy in the minors and have the contract wiped from the salary cap.

  25. LMHF#1 says:

    Just because it would make so many of you crazy, I’d love to see:

    GM – Kurri
    Asst GM – Messier
    Head Coach – Gretzky
    Asst. Coach – Coffey
    Asst Coach – Anderson
    Asst. Coach – Fuhr

    Otherwise known as the ‘A’ team.

  26. PunjabiOil says:

    I don’t have too many Oiler sources, but this one is highly connected with the Oilers and told me Sutter will be announced the Oilers head coach after the World Championships.

    I’m a fan of this move.

  27. FastOil says:

    These are deep thoughts. Yet the only questions that come to mind after looking at LT’s choice of pick are:

    Has Renney watched too many Harry Potter films?

    Does Petrell have an enormous cranium? – his wheel wells seem a lot higher over his tires than the others.

    Who does Jones’ eyebrows and why is he wearing eye shadow?

  28. bookje says:

    I don’t trust guys who can’t figure out how to look like a human in public (Jay Feaster and all of the Sutters fall into this category). Do they think they are characters on the Munsters or something?

  29. Ryan says:

    Oilogosphere.com,

    Well, the idea would be to burry it ideally this upcoming season, but after next year could be realistic IMO. I agree that a buyout isn’t a great option. What would Slats do? Would Horcoff retire after this upcoming season or play for his $4 million in okc? Look at Btn and you’ll see plenty of tough minutes centers eating Horcs lunch for under $2 million. His 5v5 number is below the Mendoza line.

  30. TheOtherJohn says:

    There is, today, a 1/4 chance that the least personable, most laconic Sutter may coach his team to win the SC. That is my pick to win the Cup. Not sure looks matter all that much. Course roster he inherited was going gangbusters at the time he took over. Wait a minute……..

    Pretty terrible interview too, but a pretty good coach

  31. Maverick says:

    So since 2008 when Tambellini took over;

    we have had: Craig MacTavish 2008-2009, Pat Quinn head coach 2009-2010, Tom Renney co-coach and then head coach 2010-2011, 2011-2012. WOW!

    Plus Whale hunting Heatley, Hossa, signing Khabby, trading Visnovsky, Brodizak, siging Barker, Foster, Eager, Belanger, finishing dead last 2 out of 3 years and second last this year. AND THIS GUY IS GETTING AN EXTENTION!!

    God have mercy on the Oilers’ next head coach, whomever that may be.

  32. Rebilled says:

    So glad we didn’t get Hitchcock¡

  33. Dave Casselman says:

    Lowe said this, Hall said that, Smyth wants to play in Alberta, Edmonton is his first choice. Renney is getting fucked, no he isn’t, Sutter dresses poorly and is a lousy coach, Tambellini’s contract will be extended and it shouldn’t be, Kreuger is the same as Renney, Kreuger is different than Renney. Renney is in love with Khabby, Tambellini even more so. At number 1, Yak will be drafted, no he won’t, Murray will, the pick will be traded to Toronto, the Islanders, the Habs, maybe even the Jackets. And so it goes, on and on and on.

    It’s mostly ALL speculation because we’re not privy to what goes on behind closed doors. Here’s what I know, though:

    On the surface of things, Renney is being treated poorly unless ST has been whispering sweet nothings behind the scenes. If they don’t want the guy, so make it known. They shouldn’t be able to have their cake and eat it too if they’re waiting to see who becomes available once the Cup final has been played.

    Unlike LT, I think Sutter would make a good coach. He was a hell of a player and he was a hell of a coach at the junior level. He’s no longer in Calgary because he advocated an ‘Oiler like,’ rebuild. My only concern would be that he’d be beholden to GM Steve, who I sadly think has a maximum shelf life of 2 years.(I frankly don’t know how he manages to keep his job..) What then does the new GM think of Sutter, (or whomever,) because he’s not his boy? If I’m Sutter and the position is offered, I turn it down – this GM is bad news and too easily a new coach might be tarnished by association.

    I also think Kreuger would do well, my only fear being he turns out to be Renney ‘lite’ and maybe too nice a guy. Contrary to what some believe, I think he’s a different guy than Renney and I also think the tandem of he and Smith made real progress with special teams.

    Draft the Yak, spend some money on FA’s or trade creatively for Dmen and 3/4 line grit and character, play DD, bury Khabby in OK, sign Petrell, (he’ll be better this year,) and either promote Danis or sign/trade for a back up goalie. Add water, mix well, bake until October and in 6 or 7 months we’ll make the playoffs.

  34. franksterra says:

    “Draft the Yak, spend some money on FA’s or trade creatively for Dmen and 3/4 line grit and character, play DD, bury Khabby in OK, sign Petrell, (he’ll be better this year,) and either promote Danis or sign/trade for a back up goalie. Add water, mix well, bake until October and in 6 or 7 months we’ll make the playoffs.”

    “This guy is the Jamie Oliver of ice hockey!”
    - that guy who used to own the Lightning

    And it’s also a good plan. One each of Vokoun/Harding, Carle/Garrison/Jackman/B. Allen/Wideman, Parros/Slater/Dom Moore/Penner/Stoll/Gaustad/Sturm/etc/etc…Not too ambitious, well within the capacity of a good management team.

    I’d be in favour of keeping renney for two years but it looks like he is gone.

  35. meanashell11 says:

    I too think Renney is gone and it does not really matter to me how it is handled. I guess I am not as sensitive to these things than others. Look at Hunter in Washington, came in and turned the team around but outlived his shelf life in about 5 months. If this was the Oilers people would be up in arms. In Washington it’s known as Ovie’s team.

    As for who the oilers brings in, please no Ralph, MacT can be in management but I think Gretz would do better. As for coach, all I know is I want someone aggressive, who will abuse the media and be tough but fair with the players. Torts-like, just not Torts!

  36. ASkoreyko says:

    meanashell11:
    I too think Renney is gone and it does not really matter to me how it is handled. I guess I am not as sensitive to these things than others. Look at Hunter in Washington, came in and turned the team around but outlived his shelf life in about 5 months. If this was the Oilers people would be up in arms. In Washington it’s known as Ovie’s team.

    Actually re: Hunter both Ovie and Backstrom came out with public comments that they were disappointed that Hunter was leaving the team. They both stated that the team would be worse off without him and that they were happy buying into his system.

    Hunter left because he wants to stay near his family and run the team he co-owns. It had nothing to do with Ovie getting his way, if he did Hunter would still be the coach of the Caps.

  37. edmoil3 says:

    I love this blog, two things bother me though.

    When lowetide asks himself questions.

    Is hall good? Yes very good

    Second, when he is listing lines he puts the center first

    Rnh-hartikanen-eberle. Bugs me

  38. Woodguy says:

    Renney lost me on his use of:

    Khabby after October
    Gagner (beginning of season)
    Omark – 5 games and then sits, then sent down
    Pajaarvi – Put in a position to fail and did so
    Lander – Why was he in the NHL past 15 games?
    Belanger – Should have been 4C after 15 games.

    I like the way Krueger deployed the roster. Would be happy with him.

    I like Sutter’s uptempo strong forecheck, would be good to see here.

    Need pretty good C and D to run a heavy forecheck, might be ugly to start.

  39. bookje says:

    edmoil3:
    I love this blog, two things bother me though.

    When lowetide asks himself questions.

    Is hall good? Yes very good

    Second, when he is listing lines he puts the center first

    Rnh-hartikanen-eberle. Bugs me

    LT is not asking himself questions, he is responding to questions submitted by Alan Mitchell.

  40. bookje says:

    Woodguy:
    Renney lost me on his use of:

    Khabby after October
    Gagner (beginning of season)
    Omark – 5 games and then sits, then sent down
    Pajaarvi – Put in a position to fail and did so
    Lander – Why was he in the NHL past 15 games?
    Belanger – Should have been 4C after 15 games.

    I like the way Krueger deployed the roster.Would be happy with him.

    I like Sutter’s uptempo strong forecheck, would be good to see here.

    Need pretty good C and D to run a heavy forecheck, might be ugly to start.

    I agree about Renney. I don’t know anything about Sutter’s coaching, but I just can’t handle how depressed he looks.

  41. Undisclosed_Personal_Reasons says:

    FastOil:
    These are deep thoughts. Yet the only questions that come to mind after looking at LT’s choice of pick are:

    Has Renney watched too many Harry Potter films?

    Does Petrell have an enormous cranium? – his wheel wells seem a lot higher over his tires than the others.

    Who does Jones’ eyebrows and why is he wearing eye shadow?

    hilarious!

  42. ashley says:

    I’m not sure of the reason for the Sutter hate. Is it because he last stood behind the flaming C’s, or is there real criticism to be found? His brief NHL track record and junior record suggests he is a quality coach. I don’t know much more than that. Does anyone have specific information beyond his record that would lead us to believe he is not a quality coach?

    I suspect the Flames are about to find out how good he was. Sutter behind the Oilers bench at the Oil’s turn in fortune will salt that wound mightily. I wouldn’t mind that either.

  43. Traktor says:

    Button’s May top 60 is out and he has Ryan Murray ranked as the 7th best defensemen in the draft.

    I don’t think we can count on Murray lasting that long but clearly there are a lot of good defenders in this draft. Edmonton could draft Yakupov and still get a D with high potential in the 10-15 range.

  44. Maverick says:

    Traktor:
    Button’s May top 60 is out and he has Ryan Murray ranked as the 7th best defensemen in the draft.

    I don’t think we can count on Murray lasting that long but clearly there are a lot of good defenders in this draft. Edmonton could draft Yakupov and still get a D with high potential in the 10-15 range.

    Interesting list from TSN’s Craig Button. It definitely shows how wide-open this years draft is, lots of differing opinions. I don’t think Murray drops that low but don’t think he should be drafted first either.

    I have included an interesting link written about Yakupov in April.
    http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrhockey-buzzing-the-net/sarnia-sting-nail-yakupov-scouts-offer-takes-nhl-141517648.html

    One quote I find concerning and completely relates to the current Oilers roster, protecting the kids.

    Scout’s take: “Yakupov did suffer a handful of injuries this year, but the year before he stayed healthy,” says David Burstyn, former NHL scout and current head scout for Mckeen’s Hockey. “One also has to keep in mind that the Sting didn’t have much in terms of toughness or protection for Yakupov and he was often left to fend for himself, in addition he played a ton of minutes, close to 25-28 minutes which is a lot for a forward at any level. He became a target for other teams and after the first few months of the season there was not as much push back from Yakupov as there was last season as he realized he could not take on all the physical challenges.”

    Oilers still need to address this need, Eager just doesn’t cut it. Would Tootoo be an upgrade? Or Brandon Prust?

  45. Lowetide says:

    Maverick: Your post brings another concern, and the big one imo. Observation of Taylor Hall’s minutes in Windsor suggested to me that he really wasn’t getting huge, massive London Knights time minutes (in small viewings etc). The Spitfires were deep and could roll lines.

    Yakupov playing huge minutes–even on a poor team–sways things in terms of projecting. That’s the one major thing I wish we could change. TOI totals.

    Need them.

  46. stevezie says:

    Maverick,

    I do hope the Oil sign Tootoo, but I wonder if he would address this problem or exacerbate it. The way he plays ups the general mayhem of a game rather than lowering it. He is one of the best pound for pound fighters and will fight anyone, but he’s not really big enough to intimidate.

    I’m with Willis in thinking that heavyweights don’t do much to protect stars, and “team tough” is also questionable. Some people think Boston’s rough style actually made things harder for them because each team they played came into the game ready for a war. I think our powerplay may end up being our best defence, but I don’t see the harm in attacking the problem from both ends; i.e adding a few scrappers to go with the powerplay, as long as they can actually play. I’d love to sign Tootoo, Asham, or Proust, (or two of them) but don’t want to see Hordichuk return.

    Eager should fall into this catagory, but I don’t think he does. I’ve love to see him gone.

  47. Maverick says:

    Lowetide:
    Maverick: Your post brings another concern, and the big one imo. Observation of Taylor Hall’s minutes in Windsor suggested to me that he really wasn’t getting huge, massive London Knights time minutes (in small viewings etc). The Spitfires were deep and could roll lines.

    Yakupov playing huge minutes–even on a poor team–sways things in terms of projecting. That’s the one major thing I wish we could change. TOI totals.

    Need them.

    True enough, with the proper TOI it would give a much better view of where the points of these players were coming from and the total impact they contributed to the team. If Hall was getting Yakupov type minutes in his draft year who knows how the optics would have been between Taylor vs Tyler.

  48. Maverick says:

    stevezie:
    Maverick,

    I do hope the Oil sign Tootoo, but I wonder if he would address this problem or exacerbate it. The way he plays ups the general mayhem of a game rather than lowering it. He is one of the best pound for pound fighters and will fight anyone, but he’s not really big enough to intimidate.

    I’m with Willis in thinking that heavyweights don’t do much to protect stars, and “team tough” is also questionable.Some people think Boston’s rough style actually made things harder for them because each team they played came into the game ready for a war.I think our powerplay may end up being our best defence, but I don’t see the harm in attacking the problem from both ends; i.e adding a few scrappers to go with the powerplay, as long as they can actually play. I’d love to sign Tootoo, Asham, or Proust, (or two of them) but don’t want to see Hordichuk return.

    Eager should fall into this catagory, but I don’t think he does. I’ve love to see him gone.

    I think the appeal for Tootoo is that he brings out the emotion on both teams with his antics, the Oilers need a “shit- disturber” in the line up. The days they come out “flat” and need a jolt he may provide it, even if the players shake their heads and go “not again” at least it will get them into the game one way or another.

  49. Jesse says:

    The big question about Sutter is whether or not he can be THE guy long term. I think if people are thinking of him being a stop-gap coach until they’re ready to contend, then there’s an issue with that. If the Oilers fire Renney, then as it has already been discussed, that would be three coaches in four years. If this is going to be the coaching change for the next few years (hopefully into contention) then great. If this coaching change is simply for the sake of getting rid of Renney, I don’t think he’s bad enough to fast forward the progression of coaches (from the so called “development coach” to a “contending coach”) so “soon”. The reason I say “soon”, is because I don’t feel that ST sees the rebuild at that stage yet. Thus… I think if it’s seen this way it’s a bad move.

  50. nathan says:

    “need them”

    Lowetide,

    Keeping TOI a state secret is probably a fraternity rule. Even poor scouts probably have a handle on ice time.

  51. nathan says:

    Today’s LFP: “In the OHL, Hunter equipped Knights hockey operations assistant Dean Patterson with a computer program allowing him to track players’ ice time. Not every team in the league has those means so it’s harder to tell if a big-name prospect was being short-changed.”

  52. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Is there a reason as to why Sutter is considered a good coach that I am missing?

    He took a NJ team from 107 points in 06/07 to 99 then 106 (and the team went to 103 after his departure). The goal differentials were +15 in 06/07 to +9, +35, and then +31 after he left). Those aren’t bad results, but doesn’t seem very impressive.

    Calgary is less so. Before he joined the falmes had 98 points and +6 gd. Then they went -6 and 90 points (despite a better sv%) and then +13 and 94 points.

    It seems Sutter joins decent to good teams and matches their previous results. Doesn’t seem special to me.

  53. Truth says:

    Speaking of Craig Button’s list, it is obvious how he does not have an NHL job but how can TSN allow him to consistently screw up the rankings every year and still have a job? Grigorenko at 20? Nevermind, Milbury still has a job. To Button’s embarrassment McKenzie is going to throw out an accurate analysis just prior to the draft.

    Anyway, it is tough to blame anything that happened the past few seasons on Renney when he was given such little to work with. A few of the above posts show that he may have mishandled a few of young guns in PRV, Lander, and Omark, but going off of the only insight we have to the Oilers decisions, in “Oil Change”, it would appear Lowe and Tambellini have a considerable say in the lineup. That could mean that the managers were pulling the strings in an attempt to assess those players while knowing well a lottery finish wouldn’t be the end of the world. Hard for Renney to take the fall if that is the case. Pure speculation though.

    Also, there appears to be quite a bit of indecisiveness with who the top defenders are in the draft. The list of defencemen (Murray, Reilly, Reinhart, Dumba, Matta, Trouba, Ceci, etc.) are all rated high and are somewhat interchangeable. It scares me that the 10th defenceman picked at approximately 20th overall could easily turn out to be the best of the group, especially since it has been shown drafting defencemen high in the draft is risky business. I’m hoping that the Oilers have their eye on one of them that slips and can finally pull the trigger on a trade after making the obvious choice in Yakupov 1st overall.

  54. Woodguy says:

    Truth,

    Speaking of Craig Button’s list, it is obvious how he does not have an NHL job but how can TSN allow him to consistently screw up the rankings every year and still have a job?

    Button’s prognostication track record is actually pretty good.

    Button is 2nd to only MacKenzie in predicting the order of the first round of the draft.

    That’s the Truth.

  55. Rondo says:

    Craig Buttons has Ryan Murray ranked at #12

  56. Lowetide says:

    Button’s schedule doesn’t allow me to interview him for ON anymore, but man he was gold last spring. Very intelligent guy.

  57. Rondo says:

    Lowetide,

    He has Mikhail Grigorenko at #20

  58. Lowetide says:

    I didn’t say he was right. :-)

  59. Benhur says:

    @Lowetide
    This scenario looks eerily familiar! As a former employee in the corporate Canada world I see CEO Katz’s fingerprints all over this process. One of the major tenants of corporate development is long term planning IN AN ORGANIZED AND TIME CONSUMING PROCESS.
    FIRST – Review Tambo’s report card, long term plan and decide on his contract! (Usually a comittee process)
    SECOND – Tambo (if contract renewed) reviews the coaching position and long term plan and makes a decision. (Comittee process)
    THIRD – “COACH” decides on assistants based on long term plan.
    It all takes time! It doesn’t mean Renny is out.

  60. MrDooman says:

    I see it the same way BENHUR does. I mean, we’re getting all up in arms about how Renney is being left to flap in the wind, but the simple truth is, Tambo is in no position whatsoever to be hiring him until he himself has a contract.

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