Coaching Tidbit

I know we’re still some time away from knowing the Oilers coaching staff for 12-13, but there are little bits of speculation out there.

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60 Responses to "Coaching Tidbit"

  1. franksterra says:

    I’m likely among the least informed and analytical fans, but i’m leaning Krueger and/or Cooper. No need for us to go from fishing only in the ex-Nuck management and coaching pond, with a healthy dash of Boys on the Bus, to scraping off ex-Flames. Vision please, imagination, calculated risk?

  2. Lowetide says:

    I like the sounds of this Cooper fellow, and Krueger is an interesting sort. I do agree that Sutter appears to be a old boy’s move, and believe Renney was a better coach overall–although I don’t know about in-game, etc.

    Still holding out for MacT, though.

  3. SpotTheLoon says:

    I see the Goldwater Institute is going to file an injunction this morning preventing Glendale City Council from voting on arena management fees for the Yotes new prospective owners. That deal is far from done and the clock is ticking in Arizona. I can’t imagine the league wants to be on the hook for another season (assuming there is a season next year) of losses.

    I wouldn’t be surprised, if this deal falls through in Glendale, if the league moves the team in a fashion not unlike what happened last summer concerning Atlanta/Winnipeg. If that is the case, it might be that Dave Tippet falls loose from the Yotes tree. If that were to be the case, the Oilers should be all over such an opportunity.

    I know that you are holding out hope for MacT, LT. Similarly, I am hoping for Tippet.

    The story is on the TSN website concerning the injunction to be filed shortly in the Glendale court.

  4. DBO says:

    Prior to Calgary, wasn’t Brent Sutter considered one of the best coaches not in the NHL (before Jersey) and everyone thought he’d be great? I really think it’s the makeup of a team and less the coach that makes the difference. A coach can bring them to another level for sure, but if you lack the horses, it’s just not going to happen. When I look at the Flames under Sutter, I don’t see a good team. i see Iginla, Kipper and a few others with nothing much there. He may have gotten the most out of them, and based on his work in Junior, i have to think he would be a better fit with a young team. I live down in Calgary now, and from the reports and rumblings down here, Sutter left because the Flames weren’t willing to go the Edmonton route with younger players. I really do believe he would be good for the Oil.

    Now as to whether he will be giving real players? That is doubtful.

  5. SpotTheLoon says:

    DBO,

    On the surface, Sutter did seem to get the most of a less than stellar Phlames team last year. However, if you look at Kipper’s performance over the course of the season, he was likely the most significant factor by far in the Phlames achieving the record that they did. Not to say that Sutter didn’t do some good things with the team last year. But I am more cautious in attributing too much credit to Sutter when it was Kipper that played the most significant role by far in the team competing for a playoff spot.

    I also live in Cowgary and heard the same thing about Sutter’s departure. He was in favour of a rebuild and declined the opportunity to coach the same team who was a year further down the road in their eventual decline.

  6. bookje says:

    Hiring Sutter would make the.Battle of Alberta interesting again of nothing else.

  7. Jordan says:

    bookje,

    So would having a GM who hired players and staff that the team needs to win.

    Alas, I we are Oilers fans, and this is simply not in the cards…

  8. rich says:

    Sutter would not be an imaginative hire, however, given his track record with younger players my sense is that Tambellini will view that as a safer than than going to Krueger or anyone else.

    MacT would be a bold hire from the standpoint that it would be like admitting they made a mistake in firing him in the firstplace.

    But given their reticense to admit a mistake (Exhibit A: Khabibulin, N – Goalie, always injured, can’t stop pucks) there’s no chance he’s coming back.

  9. franksterra says:

    DBO,

    DBO I agree we need an objective look at the best person for the job regardless of whether they used to work for rival teams, which is just cutting yer schnoz off to spite your face. I guess i’m ticked at the tweet that implies Sutter here would mean Hartsburg comes as well. I can’t speak to the merits of Hartsburg, but to me that smacks a bit of buddy-ism. In the same way we shoudl look beyond Tambi-Quinn-Renney and the Nuck connection, a Flames connection through Sutter shouldn’t privelege somone in the hiring search. Who knows though, maybe these two would be great. Dunno.

  10. sliderule says:

    I think it’s a lock for Sutter.It’s kinda like when we were waiting for Tambo to be extended.The decision was probably made a while a go but they had to make us think they were putting a lot of thought into it.

    As to MacT I hope the Oil give him a job in a low stress job like Pro scouting.High stress jobs are not good for his illness .

  11. Rondo says:

    I have to agree with this guy re: Tambellini

    http://www.blackdoghatesskunks.com/2012/06/on-tambellini.html

  12. Gerta Rauss says:

    SpotTheLoon,

    I read that Goldwater item late last night-apparently council was to vote first thing this morning so it could get interesting very quickly. I think the NHL has shown a lot of patience but another delay won’t be tolerated-I think they’ll move the team on short notice and that will be that.

    I too would like to see Tippet shake loose, but I’m more interested in Doan…he’s a lock to sign again if the team stays in Phoenix…if it moves to Quebec…well…..

  13. Captain Obvious says:

    I think that in this case NHL experience is a negative, unless you are getting a “star” coach. The Oilers need to hit a homerun with their coach and that is more likely with someone like Cooper. However, the downside of this is that the lack of experience adds variance to the equation. Personally, I think the risk is worth it.

    Brent Sutter doesn’t look like a “star” coach to me but I can live with him. Tippett, on the other hand, might be but that’s just wishcasting.

    The good news is that unless the Oilers hire Crawford they are going to going to make the best hire of a head coach this offseason. I

  14. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    Cooper and MacT are probably fighting it our for last spot on Tambi’s list. A lawyer who’s been dual GM/coach and an Oilers alum with an MBA (Katz’s suggestion?) represent clear and present dangers to a guy hiring his last coach.

  15. camsoilers says:

    I get a little tired of everyone speculating what the coyotes make and insisting they move town. I live in phoenix and love going to games. I am a die hard oilers fan but just having an NHL team around is awesome. Spottheloon i am not sure what your sources are but here in phoenix the debate is pretty heavy about the 17m the city of glendale might be on the hook for if they stay. As far as the Coyotes losing money this year the media here has made a huge deal about this being the the first time in the last 10 years that the team has been profitable and there was even some statements to the the tune of somthing like the team made more money in the first round of playoffs then they had in the last 5 years combined. That’s coming from the media here in Phoenix. Now granted that might only be 95% accurate but the point is Stop calling for the death of a team just because it doesn’t affect you. There are a lot of people here who would be heart broken if the team left town. My 2 or 3 oilers games each year are the highlight of my winter and guess what it only costs me 40$ to sit front row center ice thanks to stubhub.

  16. nathan says:

    camsoilers,

    you had me until “40$ to sit front row center ice”. For that we have the Oil Kings. Their WHL title this year was a helluva ride for hockey lovers.

  17. russ99 says:

    Sutter would be an awful hire.

    You think Renney has an hardcore defensive system and a dump/cycle/get hit/lose puck/get back offensive system, that’s nothing compared to what Sutter and Hartsburg would bring in.

    With the offensive talent level of the top 6, especially if Yakupov is drafted, that would be a total waste of creative dynamic hockey players.

    I hope he’s the fallback guy, in case the OIlers can’t get any of their real targets.

  18. Nicholas says:

    Regardless of how you feel about Ryan Smyth it’s fair to say you need someone to fill that role – that is, a tough minutes left winger who can help shelter the kids. The argument some have made (that is, why is it ok for Tambo to overpay Sutton but not Smyth) is fair, but maybe (ha ha) Tambo has figured out that overpaying role players, especially 35+ role players who want a multi-year deal, is not the best plan.

    If you decide to let Smyth walk and go sign in Calgary for 2x$3.5m is there anyone out there who’s UFA who can fill that role?

    What about Winnik out of San Jose? 27 year old left wing. Plays a little less even strength than Smyth, but a bit more short handed. No powerplay time obviously, but if you have Horcoff playing in front of the net again that’s probably not a huge loss. Started mostly in the D zone, and finished a few percent better than he started. Corsi looks ok. He only made a million bucks a year on his last contract.

    Hagman out of Anaheim? A bit older (32), and made $3m/yr on his last deal, but similar-ish underlying numbers.

    What’s a better fit for the team? Giving in to Smyth and giving him 2x$3m or is someone like Winnik at 3x$2.25m a better investment?

  19. godot10 says:

    Renney is a far more defensive coach than Sutter.

    Sutter was a pretty good coach everywhere before Calgary. In Calgary, he was doomed by meddling GM’s and President’s…i.e. brother Daryl, Feaster, King.

    I would be happy with Sutter. I would be happy with Krueger. I might even be happy with Cooper, but hiring Cooper might create a bit of internal dissension with Nelson.

    Also. I don’t think MacT was actually fired. Wasn’t there just an announcement that he would no longer be coaching by mutual agreement. It was unstated at the time that he had to deal with his health issues.

  20. nathan says:

    “hiring Cooper might create a bit of internal dissension with Nelson”

    godot10,

    When Tambi gets fired Cooper could transition to GM and Nelson to coach. Then again that’s why Tambi will not hire Cooper.

  21. SpotTheLoon says:

    Gerta Rauss,

    Gerta,

    It will be interesting to see what Doan does should the Yotes pull up stakes and head for an actual hockey market. In a sense, it is too bad as hockey might have worked in Phoenix if they hadn’t built the arena where they did. It is a long drive from Phoenix up to Glendale. Alas, it is what it is.

    From what I have heard about Doan, he obviously wants to stay in the desert, given that he has put down roots there. However, if there is no team there, it might be interesting. My guess would be that he would look at teams in the southwest (Dallas, LA, Anaheim) should he want to continue playing. I suppose retirement is an option as well. But during the playoffs, it certainly looked like the fire still burns inside. It will be interesting to see how the Glendale melodrama unfolds and, if they move, where everyone will be sitting when the music stops.

  22. SpotTheLoon says:

    camsoilers,

    Camsoilers,

    I am not calling for the demise of the Coyotes. I am simply stating information that has been reported.

    1). The Goldwater Institute filed an injunction against the vote taking place this morning. This is being reported on the main page at TSN. The basis for the injunction seems to be that Glendale City Council has not fully disclosed some of the detailed information related to the Jobing.com arena management deal. Under Arizona law, all details must be publicly disclosed 24 hours prior to the vote taking place. This is based on transparency laws in place.

    2). The City of Glendale is already faced with a budget shortfall for the next fiscal year which will result in layoffs of civic workers. Admittedly, an arena without a major tenant would likely be more costly to the city than providing a subsidy to the prospective new owners. However, the optics of this arrangement are not good.

    3). There have been numerous stories within the media about the prospective new owner having difficulty raising the money required to purchase the team.

    4). There are lies, damned lies and statistics. The same is true in the world of finance. It might be argued by some that the Yotes “broke even” this year. However, based on everything that has been published by numerous sources, it would take some creative accounting to reach that target. Let’s see if I figure out how that might happen. Take all the hockey related revenue that Phoenix generates. Then, tack on the $25 million that the City of Glendale gave to the team in the form of a subsidy. Then there is NHL revenue sharing which would provide at least another $10 to 12 million to the team. There were also the revenues from playoff gates which certainly help the equation. On average, an NHL team must generate approximately $90 million in revenue to break even. That is a figure used by Forbes in their look at NHL teams each year. So out of that $90 million in revenue, $35 to $37 million of that revenue comes in the form of a subsidy. That is almost 40% of total revenue.

    5). I have nothing against Phoenix. I have spent time there and it is a great place. I also think that there is a solid core of fans there. The biggest problem is the location of the arena. It is a considerable distance from Phoenix itself and the drive dissuades fans from attending all the time or purchasing season tickets. As you yourself said, you attend 2 or 3 times a year to see the Oilers. The location of the arena is, by far, the biggest obstacle to selling more tickets.

    No one wants to see a team move. We have seen it in other cities where core fans are heartbroken by the departure of their team. For better or worse, the NHL is about economics. At some point, the economics of a market must be examined related to viability. If a market is not viable, other NHL teams are essentially subsidizing through revenue sharing and the owner had best have deep pockets.

  23. Spartacus says:

    I was reading Cooper’s bio on the Norfolk Admirals website – http://www.norfolkadmirals.com/release_story1.php?id=1930 – and this paragraph really stood out.

    “Cooper’s impact was immediate as he guided the Gamblers to the biggest one-year improvement in USHL history. Green Bay went from 32 points in 2007-08 to 82 points and the USHL’s best record, earning him the 2009 USHL GM of the Year Award. The following year, Cooper not only was again named USHL GM of the Year, but also took home the USHL Coach of the Year, as well.”

    A big one-year improvement is exactly what we need. To hell with not making the playoffs and fuck marginal improvements. It’s enough already!

    We just gotta make it to the dance.

  24. DSF says:

    Spartacus:
    I was reading Cooper’s bio on the Norfolk Admirals website – http://www.norfolkadmirals.com/release_story1.php?id=1930 – and this paragraph really stood out.

    “Cooper’s impact was immediate as he guided the Gamblers to the biggest one-year improvement in USHL history. Green Bay went from 32 points in 2007-08 to 82 points and the USHL’s best record, earning him the 2009 USHL GM of the Year Award. The following year, Cooper not only was again named USHL GM of the Year, but also took home the USHL Coach of the Year, as well.”

    A big one-year improvement is exactly what we need.To hell with not making the playoffs and fuck marginal improvements.It’s enough already!

    We just gotta make it to the dance.

    Hire Dale Tallon.

  25. bendelson says:

    sliderule,

    I think it’s a lock for Sutter.It’s kinda like when we were waiting for Tambo to be extended.The decision was probably made a while a go but they had to make us think they were putting a lot of thought into it.

    I am most definitely in agreement. The decision has been made. The so-called ‘search’ is a show to pretend due diligence is being exercised.

  26. Dave Casselman says:

    The club is going to be better in 12-13 and even better still in 13-14. How much better is going to be dependent upon what Tambellini does via trade and free agency and it depends upon how quickly the prospects develop and it depends lastly upon the new coach.

    I’m hoping that Tambellini is like the fine print caveat in a mutual fund prospectus – Future performance may not be similar in any way to past performance – but somehow I don’t think he’ll change much. At best he verges upon inept, and it doesn’t really matter whether he’s his own man or someone(s) is/are pulling the strings behind the scenes because the result is the same. If his new contract is more than one year in length, and it will be, I’m guessing he doesn’t last the duration – unless. Unless he magically pulls an unbelievably successful summer out of his hat, and, he hires the right coach.

    I think he’ll go one for two. It’ll be a plain Jane summer, opportunities squandered and lost, but I think he’ll hire the right coach. If it comes down to Sutter, Krueger or Cooper, there’ll be winner every time. From the little I know about them, and trust me that’s not a lot, I’m hoping Ralphy the K will win the prize, mainly for the intangibles and I’m hoping the winner will be announced before the draft.

  27. SpotTheLoon says:

    I remember Glen Sather saying many years ago that, as a manager of an NHL club, the crucial skill was to be able to look at a player and determine whether that individual was capable of playing at the NHL level. He said that was the critical skill and that a GM could hire the other skills needed. I think that might have been from Boys on the Bus. Anyhow, that statement rings in my ears with Tambi.

    Sorry for the thread hijack. :-)

  28. TigerUnderGlass says:

    DSF: Hire Dale Tallon and play in the SE division.

    Fixed.

  29. jonrmcleod says:

    Well, I didn’t have time to read all of the above comments, but I’m guessing that the Oilers are waiting for the Calder Cup Finals to end, and then they will make a decision between Sutter and Cooper.

  30. Cactus says:

    bendelson:
    sliderule,

    I think it’s a lock for Sutter.It’s kinda like when we were waiting for Tambo to be extended.The decision was probably made a while a go but they had to make us think they were putting a lot of thought into it.

    I am most definitely in agreement.The decision has been made.The so-called ‘search’ is a show to pretend due diligence is being exercised.

    What is the basis for this argument? How would it serve either Katz or Tambellini to have decided on Sutter well ahead of time and then waste valuable, pre-draft prep time on a phantom search? Guys, there’s pessimism and then there’s just stark, raving madness.

  31. Ducey says:

    DSF: Hire Dale Tallon.

    The Panthers finished with 20 more points in the standings than the Oilers yet, the Panthers were -24 last year, the Oilers -27. The difference between the teams may not be that much.

  32. Rondo says:

    Jon Cooper’s bio looks impressive

    http://www.norfolkadmirals.com/release_story1.php?id=1930

    Tambo is trying to protect his job so he will probably go with Sutter. Or he is made of Teflon last place twice and second last once , not bad for 3years.

  33. LoDog says:

    Cactus: What is the basis for this argument? How would it serve either Katz or Tambellini to have decided on Sutter well ahead of time and then waste valuable, pre-draft prep time on a phantom search? Guys, there’s pessimism and then there’s just stark, raving madness.

    The conspiracy theories are getting out of hand. No matter how inept you might think the Oilers are, to believe they made their choice and are just putting on a show is beyond ridiculous.

  34. kosiork says:

    I had the pleasure of knowing Cooper a little during his USHL days and spent an evening listening to him talk shop with JP Parise for several hours. Cooper is very bright, ver y motivated and will make an excellent NHL coach somewhere. The story of the one-year improvement is fascinating.

  35. DSF says:

    TigerUnderGlass: Fixed.

    Another silly meme.

    Panthers record against the NE: 13-4-3

    Panthers record against the ATL: 8-7-5

    Panthers record against the SE: 12-8-4

    Panthers record against the NW: 2-0-4

    Panthers record against the PAC: 3-3-0

    Panthers record against the CEN: 0-4-2

    Appears to me they can play with just about anyone although they had some trouble with the CEN (who didn’t?)

    Of more concern would be the number of one goal games they won but, then again, they’re only a couple of seasons into their rebuild.

  36. stevezie says:

    SpotTheLoon:
    I remember Glen Sather saying many years ago that, as a manager of an NHL club, the crucial skill was to be able to look at a player and determine whether that individual was capable of playing at the NHL level.He said that was the critical skill and that a GM could hire the other skills needed.I think that might have been from Boys on the Bus.Anyhow, that statement rings in my ears with Tambi.

    Sorry for the thread hijack.

    I think it was Sather’s Legends of Hockey episode. I also think it’s a bunch of self-aggrandizing horse feathers. Look at the Oilers’ post-Gretzky draft record; it’s terrible. Unless it’s not a GM’s job to scout amateurs? Okay, but doesn’t that mean that maybe scouting isn’t the only essential skill a GM needs?
    Sure, the GM is the team’s most important pro-scout, but you’ve got to get lucky too. As much as cup winners like Burke and Sather like to paint themselves as two steps ahead of the game, their resumes contain plenty of spectcular failures. It’s not all skill, boys, there’s no shame in admitting that.

  37. hockeyguy10 says:

    DSF,

    Appears to me they can play with just about anyone although they had some trouble with the CEN (who didn’t?)

    Oilers they were 11-9 against the CEN teams

  38. TigerUnderGlass says:

    DSF,

    Right. No straw men here. Definitive proof, DSF style.

  39. bookje says:

    LoDog: The conspiracy theories are getting out of hand. No matter how inept you might think the Oilers are, to believe they made their choice and are just putting on a show is beyond ridiculous.

    Exactly

  40. bendelson says:

    If they hire Cooper that would be a MAJOR shift for the organization. The Oilers have a well established track record of goIng with people close to the organization if not inside it…

    Hiring Kreuger would also be a huge surprise given all the talk about hiring an established head coach which Ralph is not.

    Hiring Nelson would surprise as he also lacks NHL head coaching experience. He clearly is working well in OKC so I don’t see the reason to move him up to Edmonton this summer.

    Crawford is hopefully not on their radar.
    Maurice is in Russia.
    Tippett is in PHX.

    Who is left. Why it’s Sutter!

    Call it whatever you want, but I’d be shocked if it’s not a l

  41. bendelson says:

    If they hire Cooper that would be a MAJOR shift for the organization. The Oilers have a well established track record of goIng with people close to the organization if not inside it…

    Hiring Kreuger would also be a huge surprise given all the talk about hiring an established head coach which Ralph is not.

    Hiring Nelson would surprise as he also lacks NHL head coaching experience. He clearly is working well in OKC so I don’t see the reason to move him up to Edmonton this summer – seems premature.

    Crawford is hopefully not on their radar.
    Maurice is in Russia.
    Tippett is in PHX.

    Who is left? Why it’s Sutter!

    Established NHL coach.
    Experiance working with KLowe.
    Safe pick.

    I don’t like it anymore than most(?) of you but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

  42. Cactus says:

    bendelson,

    They may decide they are safest to go with Sutter in the end. It may or may not be a successful choice (we won’t know that right away). To say that all this time is just a smokescreen for a coronation makes no sense whatsoever and cannot be supported by any evidence (short of someone producing a sworn statement from Katz, Lowe or Tambellini).

    Sutter is certainly not unqualified. He’s not my pick (I really like Cooper and it seems they’re waiting to interview him), but he’s definitely not a clearly bad option.

  43. bendelson says:

    I do believe Cooper is the most exciting option and do think he will get an interview… As will Kreuger, and one would think Nelson and of course Sutter.

    The question is are they going into these interviews with an open mind?

    I suspect they will be interviewing from the perspective of : we know Sutter and like him. We can work with him… Someone else is going to have to blow us away to change our mind.

    It’s not the right approach and is perhaps too pessimistic a perspective for some but it seems extremely likely doesn’t it?

  44. Cactus says:

    bendelson,

    There’s absolutely nothing wrong with interviewing others with Sutter as a baseline. If you know that you’ve got one option that is a known, and at least decent commodity, that’s actually an advantage. That way, you don’t have to overreach if the other options aren’t any good. I would say they really have two known commodities as they must be pretty familiar with Kreuger right now. Still, that doesn’t mean they have a closed mind. It’s completely in their interests to gather all the information possible and make the best decision.

    Just because the Oilers have failed in other ways, does not necessarily mean they’re on some reckless path to self-destruction in their coaching search.

  45. BlacqueJacque says:

    LT,

    Instead of pumping MacT’s tires, why not become the vanguard for the Jon Cooper brigade?

    You know nobody here is going to jump on the Mac bandwagon with you, no matter how hard you try, but Cooper has not just good, not just great, but incredible credentials and a track record that Stanley Cup winning coaches would be impressed with. If you keep wasting energy on the guy who brought us Toby Peterson on the 1PP, we might end up with the guy who did worse than finished last 3 years running – he finished 9th, 10th, and 9th.

    Come join the Cooper train. Enjoy sanity.

  46. raventalon40 says:

    I’m neutral on Sutter, but always been a fan of Hartsburg.

  47. Rondo says:

    Obviously Jon Cooper connects with young players. If Oilers don’t hire him someone else will, and we will be complaining here or not we should have hired him.

  48. Lowetide says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    LT,

    Instead of pumping MacT’s tires, why not become the vanguard for the Jon Cooper brigade?

    You know nobody here is going to jump on the Mac bandwagon with you, no matter how hard you try, but Cooper has not just good, not just great, but incredible credentials and a track record that Stanley Cup winning coaches would be impressed with.If you keep wasting energy on the guy who brought us Toby Peterson on the 1PP, we might end up with the guy who did worse than finished last 3 years running – he finished 9th, 10th, and 9th.

    Come join the Cooper train.Enjoy sanity.

    I have no idea why people think sports is about joining some kind of train. I’m sincere whenn saying MacT is an excellent option, hell I’d hire him to be GM. Something about how his mind works logically. Cooper sounds like an excellent hire, love to have him as the coach.

    Doesn’t change my opinion of MacT.

    Let it go.

  49. Ontarioil says:

    Has there been anything about whether Cooper relies advanced stats in his coaching and GMing? The business degree and law degree made me assume that he did but i realize I haven’t read that anywhere…

  50. DSF says:

    stevezie: I think it was Sather’s Legends of Hockey episode. I also think it’s a bunch of self-aggrandizing horse feathers. Look at the Oilers’ post-Gretzky draft record; it’s terrible. Unless it’s not a GM’s job to scout amateurs? Okay, but doesn’t that mean that maybe scouting isn’t the only essential skill a GM needs?
    Sure, the GM is the team’s most important pro-scout, but you’ve got to get lucky too. As much as cup winners like Burke and Sather like to paint themselves as two steps ahead of the game, their resumes contain plenty of spectcular failures. It’s not all skill, boys, there’s no shame in admitting that.

    How did they do against Rey other division.

    Do you think Chicago bothered to show up?

  51. stevezie says:

    DSF,

    I’m going to assume you meant to quote the entry below me, which was:

    hockeyguy10:
    DSF,

    Appears to me they can play with just about anyone although they had some trouble with the CEN (who didn’t?)

    Oilers they were 11-9 against the CEN teams

    … but I’m going to respond anyway.

    Honestly this entire argument seems silly to me, just silly. Two things are obvious: Florida improved greatly, and that recovery was aided by a soft division. The latter doesn’t negate the former.

    Tallon did a good job of signing a bunch of dudes. He was able to do this because he inherited a stable of tremendous prospects, meaning he didn’t need to worry that one year of mediocrity instead of lottery-picking would sour the future.

    This same strategy was a disaster in Chicago, but just like Slats, Burke, and every other GM who didn’t have the league rigged in his favour, sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes… well, he eats you.

    Of course Tallon got lucky with some stuff this year. Of course he made some good moves. Arguing is fun, super fun, but you guys are debating the colour of an argyle shirt.

  52. Ryan says:

    Tambo hasn’t yet decided… Who he’s going to recommend to kevin Lowe to be the new coach or who to draft number one. He still has some evaluating to do which he will get to after he decides which color of socks he’s going to wear on Monday.

    Good article here which provides some hope for Dube:

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/28/which-goalies-got-crapped-on-statistically-smacking-the-stick-on-the-ice

  53. BlacqueJacque says:

    Lowetide: I have no idea why people think sports is about joining some kind of train. I’m sincere whenn saying MacT is an excellent option, hell I’d hire him to be GM. Something about how his mind works logically. Cooper sounds like an excellent hire, love to have him as the coach.

    Doesn’t change my opinion of MacT.

    Let it go.

    Let’s face it, you have influence.

    I don’t think too many people are excited about Sutter as coach. MacT has about the same chances of coaching the Oilers again as I do. Rather than pump air into a lost cause, why not help the Cooper campaign? He’s a genuinely remarkable coach with a track record that is stellar. 28 straight wins in the AHL? You’re a baseball guy. How many baseball teams have had even 20 straight wins? – and they play a season twice as long, are a bigger sport, and have been around longer. Win/loss ratios are similar in baseball as well.

    I’ll let it go as soon as you accept that Mac is gone. The 1-man Toby Peterson fan club is no more.

  54. TigerUnderGlass says:

    stevezie:
    DSF,

    I’m going to assume you meant to quote the entry below me, which was:

    … but I’m going to respond anyway.

    Honestly this entire argument seems silly to me, just silly. Two things are obvious: Florida improved greatly, and that recovery was aided by a soft division. The latter doesn’t negate the former.

    Tallon did a good job of signing a bunch of dudes. He was able to do this because he inherited a stable of tremendous prospects, meaning he didn’t need to worry that one year of mediocrity instead of lottery-picking would sour the future.

    This same strategy was a disaster in Chicago, but just like Slats, Burke, and every other GM who didn’t have the league rigged in his favour, sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes… well, he eats you.

    Of course Tallon got lucky with some stuff this year. Of course he made some good moves. Arguing is fun, super fun, but you guys are debating the colour of an argyle shirt.

    You’ve kind of missed on what the argument is about. As far as I know nobody has ever once claimed that playing in the SE negates the good moves Tallon has made. Just that it needs to be acknowledged as part of the context.

  55. Doug McLachlan says:

    Is Sutter the guy? Probably. Am I disappointed? Yes? Should I be? Maybe not.

    The coaching reclaimation campaign in the NHL is on a bit of a roll right now after the recent bout of bringing in a run of first-timers. From Hitchcock’s turn-around of St.Louis’ fortunes to Sutter’s brother with the (heavily presumptive) Cup-winning Kings. It wasn’t that long ago that Sutter was the outsider in Junior (like D.Sutter’s counterpart in Jersey) though from his previous stint in Florida it would have been hard to predict his success this season. So maybe Sutter can legitimately claim to be a bit of both worlds. He has a few miles on him, sure, but he still has some of that new coach smell.

    Let’s get behind this plan. Third-time’s a charm and all.

    Ok, I’ve got nothing.

    Winter is coming.

  56. DSF says:

    TigerUnderGlass: You’ve kind of missed on what the argument is about. As far as I know nobody has ever once claimed that playing in the SE negates the good moves Tallon has made. Just that it needs to be acknowledged as part of the context.

    Consider it acknowledged.

    And?

    The Panthers finished with 94 points.

    That’s enough points to make the playoffs in every year since the lockout.

    That Tallon was able to take his team from the basement to that level in one offseason is remarkable.

    The SE conference “context” is nothing but noise.

  57. TigerUnderGlass says:

    DSF,

    Nonsense.

    EDM and FLA finished with an almost identical points percentage vs the west, but EDM had to play the west more than 3 times as often. Both teams played well against the east but FLA got to play the east more than 3 times as often. This fact alone contributes to the bulk of the points differential, and if you swap them divisions and project based on point percentage EDM would have finished ahead of them.

    Add to it the fact that they got to win a garbage division and what you have left is an improved team that made some good moves but has a long way to go, not this distorted idea you’ve spent months proclaiming. Tallon has made some good moves and they have improved. They are clearly not world beaters.

    I don’t know why I get into these things with you anyways. You’ve never had any intention of real discussion.

  58. DeadmanWaking says:

    I know I’m late to this thread, but just for the record, rehiring MacT would not be an admission of error in my view. In relationship counselling, a period of separation can help to obtain clarity which allows the relationship to resume in a better capacity. I would say one of the biggest impediments in relationship counselling is where one or both parties shows up wedded to the determination of error. Of course, perception often manufactures reality and that’s a major strike against rehiring MacT. Sometimes fans are their own worst enemies.

  59. DSF says:

    TigerUnderGlass:
    DSF,

    Nonsense.

    EDM and FLA finished with an almost identical points percentage vs the west, but EDM had to play the west more than 3 times as often. Both teams played well against the east but FLA got to play the east more than 3 times as often. This fact alone contributes to the bulk of the points differential, and if you swap them divisions and project based on point percentage EDM would have finished ahead of them.

    Add to it the fact that they got to win a garbage division and what you have left is an improved team that made some good moves but has a long way to go, not this distorted idea you’ve spent months proclaiming. Tallon has made some good moves and they have improved. They are clearly not world beaters.

    I don’t know why I get into these things with you anyways. You’ve never had any intention of real discussion.

    Not sure why you’re building a case for the Oilers were better because they played in the west.

    The EC teams totalled 1,378 points.

    The WC teams totalled 1,282 points.

    Clearly the EC was a tougher division last season.

    Florida had a .573 win percentage last season.

    The Oilers were .451.

    Not sure why you think the SE is a “garbage division” when only one team in the NW made the playoffs while 2 from the SE did.

    If not for Vancouver’s dominance, the NW would be truly the “garbage division”>

    The Oilers record against the NW?

    8-11-5.

    Hell, even sad sack Columbus managed a 9-9-2 record against the NW.

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