DRAFT WEEK POST #10: CURRENT TOP 20

The Edmonton Oilers head to the draft with some very nice things. The club has some outstanding young talent in the NHL (Hall, Eberle, Nuge) with another #1 overall selection on the way.

The conversation this spring has been about Oilers blue, but a long look at what is bubbling under shows that defense is well stocked–at least in numbers if not top end quality. I ran the top 20 last winter (with bonus 21-30).

Now. For my top 20′s I don’t include players who have been in the NHL for 50 games or more. Although they are not yet established NHLers, these players are also beyond “bubbling under.” I have decided to bend the rule in the case of Anton Lander, as it is completely possible he’ll spend an entire season in the minors in 12-13. His 56 games with Edmonton this past season had more to do (imo) with some kind of bizarre organizational push than performance.

So, graduating from the winter list are:

  • Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (#1) who played 62 games and an awesome career ahead.
  • Jeremie Blain (#14) unsigned by the Oilers.

Current rank (which will change when I do the summer edition next week, ranking the new picks) with the winter number in brackets.

  1. (3) D Oscar Klefbom: Young defender recently signed his pro contract had a strong WJ’s. His SEL play makes it difficult to know what we’re dealing with (complete D versus stay at home) but his WJ numbers (6, 1-1-2 +8) and play suggest he has a nice range of skills.
  2. (5) D Martin Marincin: Finished off his amateur career with another nice WHL season and Jim Byers told me they were impressed in OKC (6, 0-1-1 +4) when he got into action at the end of the year. 6, 1-2-3 +2 at the World Juniors for Slovakia and has a nice range of skills.
  3. (7) D Martin Gernat: Went 60, 9-46-55 +41 with the Oil Kings and played well in the WJ’s too. Gernat is such an interesting prospect, he could end up passing a few more players on this list before turning pro. Selected 122nd overall at last summer’s draft.
  4. (4) L Teemu Hartikainen: Slow starts have hurt him but each spring Hartikainen emerges with a good performance and enters the conversation for next year. He’s 29 games into his NHL career (5-5-10) and looks like he might be a 30-point winger based on his early resume. Good size, I think he has an exceptional chance this fall to make the big club.
  5. (2) C Anton Lander: Oilers made a mistake in keeping him up (56, 2-4-6) in Edmonton and he didn’t exactly deliver prime offense in OKC. Lander had a solid offensive season at 19 in the SEL and a year in OKC should get him back on track. He remains an organizational favorite based on leadership and his reputation as a defensive C remains (although it was not in evidence in the NHL).
  6. (6) G Tyler Bunz: Finished 2nd in the WHL in save percentage (.921) and is tracking equal/ahead of Dubnyk at the same age. Concussions a concern and he is likely to start in the ECHL but he looks on track entering pro.
  7. (9) R Tyler Pitlick: Started 42, 5-8-13 in OKC and then found the range a little and finished 33, 4-13-17 (including playoffs). He received solid reviews in conversations with both Todd Nelson and Jim Byers during the season and I think he’ll blossom next season in the AHL.
  8. (13) R Tobias Rieder: Wow, what a season. Started 52, 35-34-69 and then went super nova (24, 20-22-42 including playoffs) to end the season. Billy Moores says he works hard and doesn’t give up anything defensively, and also felt his game was “getting complete.” That’s a lot of good news on one player.
  9. (12) G Olivier Roy: Clearly overqualified for the ECHL based on his stats, Roy remains a solid prospect and could get a chance to be an OKC starter before the more highly rated (by me, anyway) Bunz.
  10. (10) D David Musil: Showed us what he is with quality defensive play at the WJ’s. Smart, savvy defenseman and he’s not yet 20. Lost his season to injury but has a nice future. 6 months older than Ryan Murray.
  11. (17) D Dillon Simpson: Young man’s draft day scouting reports were all over the place but he’s settled in as a solid 2-way defender at a big time NCAA school, age 18. I think this guy might come quickly once he turns pro. Man it’s nice to have a quality amateur scouting department.
  12. (11) D Colten Teubert: A tough, physical defender, he can play effectively in the AHL but clearly has some ways to go (as seen in his NHL play). Another season in Okla City is likely, but we shouldn’t forget about this guy. Coach Nelson mentioned a few times how much they missed his presence after he was lost to injury.
  13. (15) D Brandon Davidson: Oilers signed him late, I think he might spend some time in the ECHL. A wonderful story, I’ll cheer like hell for him and he ended his amateur career in style.
  14. (18) L Phil Cornet: Took some time to find the range in pro hockey (we need time on ice to properly follow progress) he scored 24 goals in the minors and played 2 NHL games. A season to remember for Cornet.
  15. (8) L Curtis Hamilton: A disappointing season and then an injury has Hamilton falling down the depth chart. He was the 48th pick in 2010 and finished up junior in fine fashion. That step to pro hockey was perhaps hindered by his age (he played 17 AHL games before his 20th birthday) but he’ll badly need to show progress in 12-13.
  16. (19) D Kyle Bigos: Huge defender is a pim magnet in the NCAA and should be a favorite or management and the fanbase if and when he arrives in pro. Turned 23 in May, I think he’ll stay in NCAA for his final year.
  17. (23) C Chris VandeVelde: Keeps hanging around and if the Oilers have injuries at C this guy might be able to grab a roster spot and spend some real time in the NHL. He’s the only Oiler pick from 2005 who has been in the organization for his entire pro career (Chorney).
  18. (27) L Kristians Pelss: Had a strong season and then an extended postseason and was rewarded for his solid play with a pro contract. Scored 33 goals in 80 junior games this season, so maybe there’s enough offense after all.
  19. (16) G Frans Tuohimaa: Played in the SM-Liiga for part of the season and then also played at lower levels. .898SP in the big Finnish league is no screaming hell, the verbal from the Oilers is hopeful but we’re talking about a 7th round pick who was probably taken about where he belonged.
  20. (21) D Alex Plante: Had a strong AHL season, made the All-Star team and things are looking up for his pro career. The question is: will it be at the NHL level? My guess is no.

Three additions, plus the Nuge, Blain and Ryan Martindale (#20) off the list.

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116 Responses to "DRAFT WEEK POST #10: CURRENT TOP 20"

  1. regwald says:

    It will be interesting to see if they can trade up to get another 1st round selection. If not, i would guess they go dman with #32 overall. Likewise 2 picks in the 3rd round. More dmen or gritty forwards.

    I was hoping on Samuelsson, with their 2nd round pick but I would be surprised if they didn’t add a defence man in the 2nd round. But they sure could use some of that grit and size from Samuelsson.

  2. Lowetide says:

    That’s one of the reasons I like WG’s NJD idea. You get 29th to add to 32nd and that should get you at least to Boston at 24th. Samuelsson is a guy they well know and he does have the look of a PF who can post crooked numbers.

  3. Brett Gee says:

    Love to see so many D on the list. Lot’s of goalies, too. Center might be something that could take a while to fill out.

    So, Klefbom has one more year in Europe, right?

  4. regwald says:

    Lowetide,

    I saw WG’s idea last night, but didn’t comment. I agree, it definitely is a very interesting idea. I like the idea of Yakupov in the line up, but boy that would add a nice puzzle piece for the D making that flip flop.

    I think Samuelsson was probably the Oil Kings best player at the Mem Cup. He got more done than anyone else in my opinion.

  5. jake70 says:

    Looking back, VandeVelde and Lander should hve been swapped very early in the season. Give V V a sink or swim NHL tryout (the guy was 24 at training camp last year), allowing Lander to develop the NA game in the AHL. Would V V have been any worse? and still likely would not have endangered a lotter pick.

  6. FrankenOil says:

    I think there are a few things that are certain for the draft:

    1)Drafting a goaltender sometime in Round 3 and later
    2)Draft an Oil King (Moroz, Samuelsson, Corbett, maybe even Legault)
    3)Draft an obscure Euro who intends to play in the CHL
    4)Draft a small-ish scoring forward who has slid in the draft (recent examples being Rieder, Rajala)

    These are the 4 running narratives from the past few drafts. IMO, the OIlers should look to using two later picks on defensemen going the NCAA route and focus on looking for forwards early and often.

    Using multiple picks on defensemen means the organization will be forced to decide between similar prospects when the signing deadline comes. The Blain vs. Davidson decision shows us fans that the org is only wiolling to break in so many rookie blueliners each fall.

  7. LMHF#1 says:

    On that list, the two guys I wonder the most about are Hartikainen and Rieder. Gernat is also intriguing, but I’m guessing he’s more of a sure thing than most people suspect. The fans will have issues with him, which will get very annoying in a hurry. I hope we have an appropriate coach who doesn’t chuck him under the bus and is actually open to a truly offensively skilled defenceman. There are still very few coaches who understand how to deploy one.

    If Hartikainen becomes less than a regular 40 point guy, I will be disappointed. He’s got all the tools and appears very driven. People forget that he should have made the team last year. He outplayed Jones in TC (and others) by an easily visible margin and got hosed because this management crew cares more about losing a player on waivers than icing their best roster and developing a young guy.

    Rieder will have to force his way into the group because of the perceived size issue on our roster, but he sure seems to be exactly the type of depth scoring guy you want. Very excited to take a good look at this guy during camp and the preseason.

    Last guy I’m interested in is Cornet. He could be Pisani #2 if he works really really hard on his game. There’s just a ton of hockey IQ there.

  8. Woodguy says:

    This current list looks to be a little deeper than this list. Especially when you consider how many NHL roster players are under 25.

    5 years on the list for Mr. Plante. I don’t think he’s gonna make it.

    Probably carve out a nice career in AHL or even SEL.

  9. sliderule says:

    One thing that concerns me about our amateur scouting is the draft mix.

    Under Stu 31percent WHL 34 percent euro10percent ohl 10.percent Q 15 percent NCAA and other

    It seems we are not giving a real look to about 65percent of the countries players.Is that because he trust his own eye better than eastern scouts ?

    Prendergast for all his faults was much more balanced in his picks.

  10. jonrmcleod says:

    Woodguy,

    “Slava Trukhno: Love this player.”–Lowetide, June 28, 2007

    Sorry, LT.

  11. godot10 says:

    LMHF#1:

    If Hartikainen becomes less than a regular 40 point guy, I will be disappointed. He’s got all the tools and appears very driven. People forget that he should have made the team last year. He outplayed Jones in TC (and others) by an easily visible margin and got hosed because this management crew cares more about losing a player on waivers than icing their best roster and developing a young guy.

    40 points is a LOT of points in today’s NHL.

    If Hartikainen becomes a physical 15 goal scorer-30 something point guy, that is pretty damn good in today’s NHL.

  12. Cactus says:

    This list confirms a lot of what Jonathan Willis and others have been saying about the Oilers prospect pool: it’s awfully light on forwards. Consider, of LT’s top 20, there are:

    9 Defencemen
    3 Goalies
    8 Forwards

    Moreover, of those 8 forwards, only 3-4 are decent bets to have a shot at the NHL (Harski, Lander, Pitlick and possibly Rieder) whereas there are at least 6-7 defencemen (Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Musil, Simpson, Teubert and possibly Davidson)*. Plus, you have a guy like Plante who probably doesn’t make it with the Oilers, but will probably get at least 69 NHL games with another org.

    Not only do the Oilers need to take Yakupov, they should probably go with a forward in the 2nd round, barring a good d-man falling.

    *As a clarification, I’m not saying all these players will have NHL careers, only that their arrows are pointing up and in that direction.

  13. LMHF#1 says:

    Cactus:

    Not only do the Oilers need to take Yakupov, they should probably go with a forward in the 2nd round, barring a good d-man falling.

    Yakupov then Samuelsson and we all do the happy dance.

  14. FrankenOil says:

    LMHF#1,

    I’d be happy with Yak and Pearson. Pearson would help fill a scoring role in OKC (easing the Omark loss/Harski Graduation) and provide the team with some immediate depth up front

  15. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    That’s one of the reasons I like WG’s NJD idea. You get 29th to add to 32nd and that should get you at least to Boston at 24th. Samuelsson is a guy they well know and he does have the look of a PF who can post crooked numbers.

    I’m not sure Samuelsson gets past PIT at 22. He’s perfect for that team.

    Imagine him and Neal as wingers for Crosby and Malkin. Fits in there nicely.

  16. Mr DeBakey says:

    It seems we are not giving a real look to about 65 percent of the countries players. Is that because he trust his own eye better than eastern scouts ?
    Prendergast for all his faults was much more balanced in his picks.

    Organizational worldview.
    Call it Go West Young Men
    The Euro number is slightly inflated because Pajaarvii & Klefbom fell to them. They would’ve take WHLer Glennie with the MPS pick.

    They’ve also traded for Teubert & Schultz.

  17. gd says:

    The D prospects are very encouraging. I believe Klefbom would be a top 10 pick this year and Maracin, Gernat and Musil would go in the top 30.

    Forwards with size and grit are what this org needs. Pick Yak (or Forsberg, Galchynyuk, or Grigerenko) and take someone like Wilson, Samuellson, Sissons, Laughton at 32.

    The one D element that is lacking is the elite puck mover, which is why signing Schultz would be so awesome. If they can’t sign Schultz, I hope they wait as I expect at least one of Ellis, Murphy or Rundblad to stagnate in their org and be available in the “discount bin” in a year or two. Get a Timmonen or Enstrom type for now.

    Ps: I really hope the coach is announced this week. The only possible thing to wait for now is if the Phx situation falls apart and Tippett comes available. Otherwise we know every available candidate.

  18. fuzzy muppet says:

    When does McKensie’s list come out today??? How am I supposed to distract myself from work???

  19. bookje says:

    Despite my being a skeptic of all the twittercrazy thats been stoking the rumour mill, I have to say that the lack of a draft party is interesting.

  20. Ducey says:

    sliderule: One thing that concerns me about our amateur scouting is the draft mix.Under Stu 31percent WHL 34 percent euro10percent ohl 10.percent Q 15 percent NCAA and otherIt seems we are not giving a real look to about 65percent of the countries players.Is that because he trust his own eye better than eastern scouts ?Prendergast for all his faults was much more balanced in his picks.

    Yeah, KP gave an equal opportunity to busts from all over.

    Mining the WHL makes a lot of sense for the Oilers. Players are more likely to be familiar with the weather, culture (or supposed lack thereof) and travel involved with playing in Edmonton.

    Bottom line though is that the drafts have to be good. Stu’s have been.

  21. jonrmcleod says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    When does McKensie’s list come out today???How am I supposed to distract myself from work???

    Bob MacKenzie via Twitter: “Big week starts today. @DarrenDreger will have all the inside stuff tonight on SportsCentre. I’ll have final TSN Draft Rankings at 7:30 ET.”

  22. Cactus says:

    bookje:
    Despite my being a skeptic of all the twittercrazy thats been stoking the rumour mill,I have to say that the lack of a draft party is interesting.

    Wasn’t there something in the last thread about this? I recall someone mentioning that Hall said he was going to some sort of party.

    It could be notable. Maybe the Oilers are going away from the consensus/trading and don’t want the public reaction. Maybe they don’t want to emphasize the fact that they finished at the bottom again. Maybe they figured it’s not worth paying for a party if a number of private organizations are holding them.

    Much like everything during this process it’s all speculation and there’s no evidence to take one explanation over another.

  23. Woodguy says:

    bookje:
    Despite my being a skeptic of all the twittercrazy thats been stoking the rumour mill,I have to say that the lack of a draft party is interesting.

    HERETIC!
    STOKING THE FIRES OF TRADE RUMORS!
    FEAR MONGERER!

  24. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy,

    Comedy!

    I was left wondering whether or not I’d have been bothered to cut the duct tape, just so.

  25. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy: HERETIC!
    STOKING THE FIRES OF TRADE RUMORS!
    FEAR MONGERER!

    This is why Oilers fans are the best. What other 21st century fanbase is careering toward the 17th century?

  26. hunter1909 says:

    hunter1909′s take on what’s really going on at Northlands Coliseum: Katz, in his infinite wisdom has correctly figured that the re-hiring of MacT needs to be dealt with asap – and has directed that misinformation re the 1st overall pick be blasted out right up and until draft day; on the probability that Nail Yakupov as the first overall pick will leave the anti-MacT philosophers mute from astonishment.

    Fucker’s a genius.

  27. hunter1909 says:

    I’ve never seen a higher level of Oiler’s commentary than here on Lowetide during the past two weeks. It’s getting like Dante’s Hell around here.

  28. Traktor says:

    hunter1909:
    hunter1909′s take on what’s really going on at Northlands Coliseum: Katz, in his infinite wisdom has correctly figured that the re-hiring of MacT needs to be dealt with asap – and has directed that misinformation re the 1st overall pick be blasted out right up and until draft day; on the probability that Nail Yakupov as the first overall pick will leave the anti-MacT philosophers mute from astonishment.

    Fucker’s a genius.

    If Edmonton moves Shawn Horcoff that would silence any negativity towards MacT. Drafting the obvious choice at #1.. not so much.

    My guess is Edmonton will keep both of Belanger and Horcoff and add another vanilla veteran.

    Business as usual.

  29. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    RE the draft party. It sounds like more of a black eye on Tambellini and the org this year so I think it makes sense to stop the celebration of failure.

  30. DSF says:

    James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

    Blue have signed Barret Jackman to a three-year deal. There goes another unrestricted free agent.

  31. pboy says:

    I have a feeling that Belanger is one and done in Edmonton. There’s been a lot of talk about how negative Belanger was on the ice and the locker room. I wonder what the pricetag on Stoll will be for this contract?

  32. commonfan14 says:

    hunter1909: I’ve never seen a higher level of Oiler’s commentary than here on Lowetide during the past two weeks. It’s getting like Dante’s Hell around here.

    I just like how LT started dropping F-bombs in his posts late last week. Draft time is great.

    I also got to thinking about something listening to the Nation Radio podcast last night…

    The Oil question to Yak about whether he has a girlfriend: harmless conversation, or subtle gay screening?

  33. pboy says:

    DSF,

    What additions do you think would be realistic for the Tambo this summer?

  34. Maverick says:

    Nice list LT
    its shows some nice talent coming up. The only area lacking is offensive players. Would really be nice to include yakupov or galchenyuk next week on this list.

  35. Archie says:

    People are dreaming to believe that Samuelsson would be available in the 2nd round, he could go in the top 20. LT OKC need to have a winning season this year and it hurt the development of Pitlick and Hamilton. OKC had too many veteran centers and LW and with Hamilton case he saw limited time and was a healthy scratch in part to offense game, but in most part it was a numbers game. These two could of easily stay another year in the minors and in Pitlicks case he should of, but he wasn’t going to see time at center with the Tigers so the Oilers promoted him to the Braons. Hamilton is to a 3rd line defensive forward with some offensive capabilities and when he played he wasn’t bad, the offense will come give it time.

  36. rickithebear says:

    DSF: Blue have signed Barret Jackman to a three-year deal. There goes another unrestricted free agent.

    Another shutdown Dman in the Nick schultz type. now there is only B. Allen.

    Luckily we trade gilbert for schultz.

    his 2nd comp 2.75-3.00Ga/60 type dmen are more available.

    Coliacovo
    Garrison
    Suter
    Kuba
    Carle
    Huskins
    Rozival
    Wiedman
    Salo
    Campoli

  37. bookje says:

    Hey, we can all relax now because Stu McGreggor said “The Russian thing is not a factor” this morning.

    Wait, but what if he meant Yakupov by ‘Russian thing’ – maybe he is saying Yakupov is not a factor.

    Or maybe they are picking Murray and he is just saying that so that he can plausibly deny that it was because Yak is a Russian later.

    Oh my God, this is terrible.

    Stupid Tambellini!!!!!!!!!!! Why didn’t he fire McGreggor when he had the chance???

  38. sliderule says:

    I still don’t like the fact the magnificent one doesn’t seem to pick players from OHL.

    The OHL scout is either not making a good pitch for players he likes or is the type that only sees faults.The OHL is the strongest junior league yet we are only picking a third of what we do in WHL .

    The kings are supposed to have the best draft record and their picks run like this.
    WHL 16 percent OHL 22 percent Q 13percent Euro 13percent.
    Their picks are balanced.

  39. thurmtim says:

    Man, some of you are ready to jump off a bridge that hasn’t even been built yet. Patience, people. All will be revealed in the next few days….

    (manically chewing pencils and muttering to self…)

  40. remember reijo says:

    Jagr to test the waters. Am i crazy to kinda want him in Edmonton? See if he was serious when he said he would a couple years ago and pair him with Hemsky for the year. Overpay one year on him why not?

  41. rickithebear says:

    sliderule: I still don’t like the fact the magnificent one doesn’t seem to pick players from OHL.

    2011: rieder 4th round.Top PK, Two-way Fwd scores goals like Yakupov. hall, Skinner, Seguin. playoff scoring leader.
    2010: taylor hall nuf said
    martindale: 2nd highest nhl point ceilng for 6’2″+ fwd based on Chl numbers.

  42. Traktor says:

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer

    With a declining UFA defence market, quality D will need to be acquired via trade for teams like the Oilers

  43. speeds says:

    LT, in the live chat Woodlief answered a question I submitted regarding Calle Andersson.

    Comment From speeds
    What are your thoughts on Calle Andersson?

    Biggest disappointment of the season. Lacks passion for the game and shouldn’t be taken in the first three rounds.

  44. Traktor says:

    Edmonton could probably get Paul Martin for close to free. He has been terrible for Pittsburgh and has 2 years left at 5M per.

    Maybe Edmonton could swap Horcoff for Martin if they trade Staal.

  45. jonrmcleod says:

    Traktor,

    Do you have any other scenarios in which the Oilers get rid of Horcoff?

  46. spoiler says:

    Bruce Garrioch of Sun Newspapers: Worst Draft Class Ever*

    .
    .
    .

    *This might be a slight exaggeration. But what the hell. It’s Garrioch. He’s used to it.

  47. Traktor says:

    jonrmcleod:
    Traktor,

    Do you have any other scenarios in which the Oilers get rid of Horcoff?

    They would need to take back a bad contract.

    Gomez, Komisarek ect.

  48. Traktor says:

    Stauffer is already slagging Yakupov again. First segment of his Monday show.

    Apparently we shouldn’t draft the Yakupov because he might play in the KHL if there was a lockout.

    We might as well trade Klefbom. He will be playing in the SEL.

  49. Ducey says:

    I still don’t like the fact the magnificent one doesn’t seem to pick players from OHL.

    The OHL scout is either not making a good pitch for players he likes or is the type that only sees faults.The OHL is the strongest junior league yet we are only picking a third of what we do in WHL .

    I can see the draft table conversations on Oil Change next season:

    Scene fades in to the scouts gathered around Stu’s feet as he sits high on a throne. The announcer says: “Not only do the Oilers have to worry about the first overall pick, but they have important decisions to make on day two of the draft. For scouts its their most important day, and this pre draft meeting is an opportunity for them to push some of the players they have spent countless hours studying all season.”

    Cuts to conversation from meeting:

    OHL Scout: ” I think we should really be looking at Athanasiou at 32, Stu. He has great speed, great tools, plays center, lots to like.”

    Stu: “Didn’t you say the same thing about Robbie Schremp?”

    OHL Scout: “Come on boss, are you going to bring that up again? He looked like he was going to be good. Can I help it that MacT destroyed him?”

    Stu glares at the scout and says: “Silence! We will come back to you if we need someone in the 5th round.”

    Scene fades with the other scouts making faces and giggling at the now weepy OHL Scout …

  50. sliderule says:

    I was interested in Grigorenko until I saw him with shirt off at combine.Body looks real soft which would jibe with rep for inconsistent effort.

    Buyer beware!

    Stauffer is just now saying lockout would drive Yakupov to Russia.Who cares if he misses even two seasons we would get a player ready for the arrival of our defence prospects.

    Unless we get a UFA defender we are going to lottery next year.

  51. Traktor says:

    sliderule:
    I was interested in Grigorenko until I saw him with shirt off at combine.Body looks real soft which would jibe with rep for inconsistent effort.

    Buyer beware!

    Drew Doughty was like 20% body fat in his draft year. Just saying.

  52. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    Without seeing their list, it is impossible to judge scouts’ league preferences.

    We know they make a list and go down it. If another team picking ahead of them take from the OHL for instance, then a team doesn’t skip to the next OHL prospect, they go to the next highest player on the list.

    It is probably true that some teams completely avoid certain leagues. It is likely also true that some teams heavily favourite some leagues. But, simply because there are discrepancies in which leagues players were chosen on a team-by-team basis, does not imply those scouts are undervaluing leagues. These are small sample sizes and it is irrelevant if every prospect system is represented equally – it matters that the best prospects are chosen at their position.

  53. Woodguy says:

    remember reijo:
    Jagr to test the waters. Am i crazy to kinda want him in Edmonton? See if he was serious when he said he would a couple years ago and pair him with Hemsky for the year. Overpay one year on him why not?

    Funny, I was mentioning that to someone today.

    Put MPS at 3LW with 10 and 28, and Jagr at 2LW with 89 and 83.

    He’s 40, but in great shape and scored 53pts in 73gms last year.

  54. LP says:

    Woodguy: Funny, I was mentioning that to someone today.

    Put MPS at 3LW with 10 and 28, and Jagr at 2LW with 89 and 83.

    He’s 40, but in great shape and scored 53pts in 73gms last year.

    HALL – RNH – EBERLE
    JAGR – GAGNER – HEMSKY

    I like these two top lines too.

    What would be a good contract? 2Y @ 3M? or 4M ?

  55. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: Funny, I was mentioning that to someone today.Put MPS at 3LW with 10 and 28, and Jagr at 2LW with 89 and 83.He’s 40, but in great shape and scored 53pts in 73gms last year.

    Yeah, but he got those points playing the first line with Giroux and Hartnell. I imagine earning points is one of those reasons he’s still playing in the NHL. Interesting, but I don’t think Jagr bites.

    He might want to play with Elias if Parise jumps ship.

  56. Traktor says:

    Why would Jagr spend his last year in the NHL playing for a last place team? He could make 10M in the KHL or try and win a cup in the NHL. Not sure why Edmonton would be an option.

    Also, if you are not sold on MPS enough to give him a top 6 role then trade him right now. His value is not going to increase playing in the bottom 6. Especially if he has to play with Belanger again.

  57. billymadison says:

    sliderule:
    I was interested in Grigorenko until I saw him with shirt off at combine.Body looks real soft which would jibe with rep for inconsistent effort.

    Buyer beware!

    Stauffer is just now saying lockout would drive Yakupov to Russia.Who cares if he misses even two seasons we would get a player ready for the arrival of our defence prospects.

    Unless we geta UFA defender we are going to lottery next year.

    Just a quick question. Maybe someone could inform me better, but because Nail was drafted through the CHL import draft like marincin, wouldn’t Nail be able to just jump straight to the AHL instead of having to continue in the CHL next year if there is a lockout? I know you have to play in the CHL till you are 20 if you are drafted in the priority selections. Just not to sure what the rules are for Imports.

  58. Moosemess says:

    Been reading a lot of draft previews and prospect reports this year and every one I’ve read on Mikhael Samuelson says the scouts don’t like his skating deficiencies. I think it’s definitely possible that he’s available in the 2nd round. Looking forward to MacKenzie’s list tonight to see where he slots him.

    On the Oil’s WHL bias, I don’t think it’s a case of not wanting to shop the OHL as much as it’s a case of the Oilers thinking they stand a better chance of retaining Western lads after their entry deals expire. Chris Pronger is from Dryden ON and Edmonton wasn’t good enough from him. Have you been to Dryden lately? It definitely falls under the sh*thole class of industrial complexes.

    Btw, seriously impressed with Adam Henrique in the playoffs. How about this for a trade fantasy reuniting Taylor Hall with his former Spitfire teammate. Oil deal Sam Gagner, Peckham and 1st Overall to the Devils for Henrique, Larsson and the Devil’s 1st rounder.

  59. LP says:

    Traktor:
    Why would Jagr spend his last year in the NHL playing for a last place team? He could make 10M in the KHL or try and win a cup in the NHL. Not sure why Edmonton would be an option.

    Also, if you are not sold on MPS enough to give him a top 6 role then trade him right now. His value is not going to increase playing in the bottom 6. Especially if he has to play with Belanger again.

    I think I remember reading a tweet a while back that said that Jagr had almost signed in EDM.

    I agree it makes more sense for him to chase a cup. But at what point do FA look at EDM’s offensive players and say ‘hmmmmmm…’.?

  60. jonrmcleod says:

    Jeff Marek says Carolina likes Sam Gagner. Could there be a trade involving the 8th overall pick?

  61. spoiler says:

    Traktor: Why would Jagr spend his last year in the NHL playing for a last place team? He could make 10M in the KHL or try and win a cup in the NHL. Not sure why Edmonton would be an option.Also, if you are not sold on MPS enough to give him a top 6 role then trade him right now. His value is not going to increase playing in the bottom 6. Especially if he has to play with Belanger again.

    That would be the other reason.

  62. spoiler says:

    jonrmcleod: Jeff Marek says Carolina likes Sam Gagner. Could there be a trade involving the 8th overall pick?

    Whack-a-mole?

  63. LP says:

    spoiler: Whack-a-mole?

    Ya, thats the problem. I wouldn’t trade Gagner for 8th OV. I would if its 8th + something else.

    Now, lets define something else:
    -a pick in the top 30 (which CAR doesn’t have – WSH does)
    -another C
    -another D

    I don’t see it with CAR.

  64. Ducey says:

    CAR has Ryan Murphy and Brian Dumoulin as prospects on D and Victor Rask and Zac Dalpe as C prospects. They also have a couple of Sutters (which may be relevant soon) and a Lowe.

    Any trade would have to include Riley Nash coming back here. Just our way of saying FU.

    If Reinhart is still there at 8, I could see the Oilers making a trade giving up Samwise for Reinhart and another prospect.

  65. uni says:

    Traktor: sliderule:
    I was interested in Grigorenko until I saw him with shirt off at combine.Body looks real soft which would jibe with rep for inconsistent effort.
    Buyer beware!
    Drew Doughty was like 20% body fat in his draft year. Just saying.

    Also Grigorenko is still recovering from Mono, wasn’t even cleared to train or practice at the time of the combine. Traktor’s on the right track here, difficult to ding a guy too much when he has a few years before he’s physically mature.

  66. Cactus says:

    It’s interesting how the draft can make us all a bit myopic as it pertains to armchair GMing. It seems half the posts these days are about how the Oilers could acquire another pick, often using roster players or defensive prospects that have already put in development time. Yet, come December, many of these same people will be screaming about a “never-ending rebuild.”

    This is the year to use draft picks along with prospects and players to pick up some established NHL talent. Take Yakupov at #1 (potential 40G scorers simply cannot be acquired any other way) but be ready to move any other picks for real players. Draft picks have their highest trade value at the draft – exploiting this properly would put this team on the path to the playoffs.

  67. bookje says:

    Grigorenko is an idiot. Fat, lazy, stupid and not at all a team player. Any GM who takes him in the top 31 picks is a moron whose career will be ruined by this pick. Not picking him would be the safe thing to do. Did you hear he is Russian!!

  68. LP says:

    Ducey:
    CAR has Ryan Murphy and Brian Dumoulin as prospects on D and Victor Rask and Zac Dalpe as C prospects.They also have a couple of Sutters (which may be relevant soon) and a Lowe.

    Any trade would have to include Riley Nash coming back here.Just our way of saying FU.

    If Reinhart is still there at 8, I could see the Oilers making a trade giving up Samwise for Reinhart and another prospect.

    Agreed. I’d take Murphy over Nash though.

  69. ashley says:

    spoiler:
    Bruce Garrioch of Sun Newspapers: Worst Draft Class Ever*

    *This might be a slight exaggeration. But what the hell. It’s Garrioch. He’s used to it.

    This is comedy. I think it is hilarious that every three days there is a scout or NHL executive quoted in an article with a different opinion on the depth of the draft.

    It’s deep. It’s shallow.

    It lacks top end talent, but is very deep. It has great top end talent, but nothing beyond 10.

    The first pick is certain, and after that the next 8 are interchangeable. Anyone could go #1.

    The talent falls off after the top 3. The talent falls off after 1. There is no talent in this draft. Everyone in this draft would go below 10 in last year’s draft.

    I could go on. And to think they believe they are capable of telling how deep a draft is going to be a year from now.

    I would love to hear this for once: “I have no idea how good these boys are going to be. Ask me in 5 years how deep this draft is.

    Because I think that is far closer to the truth than anything else we hear.

  70. jonrmcleod says:

    Ducey,

    The problem is that GMs overvalue first round picks on draft day.

  71. remember reijo says:

    Also, if you are not sold on MPS enough to give him a top 6 role then trade him right now

    Mismanagement aside, MPS was horrible last year. Im not sold on him being a top 6 guy and I think whether or not he even cracks the lineup this year full time is more relevant. Can he even play in the NHL if he isnt a top 6? I honestly wish he was a defenseman.

  72. rickithebear says:

    jonrmcleod: Do you have any other scenarios in which the Oilers get rid of Horcoff?

    Do you know how many fwd faced his situation the last three years. and had at least a single season better than Horcoff’s 3 year average for that situation.

    11 forwards:
    point of reference
    Horc off’s RFA Contract 3.6M
    UFA Contract 5.5M
    9-10 season;
    Callahan NYR RFA contract 4.275m
    Legwand NSH UFA 4.5M
    Ward NSH ufa 3.0M
    Tlusty CAR RFA 1.6M
    McClement COL UFA 1.5M
    Plekanec MTL UFA 5M
    10-11
    Bolland CHI RFA 3.375M
    11-12
    B. Sutter Car RFA 2.1M.
    Fisher UFA 4.25M
    M.Erat ufa 4.5M
    Couturier EL 1.375M

    Alot of 4.25 to 5M contracts for UFA forwards.

    So who you going to replace him with.

  73. Ducey says:

    jonrmcleod: Ducey, The problem is that GMs overvalue first round picks on draft day.

    Yeah, but if you can give up Gagner and get Murphy and Reinhart, the Defense (circa 2015 or so) would be absolutely stacked. I don’t get the sense CAR is under any impression that a draft pick is worth too much – otherwise why would they be shopping it so hard?

  74. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    Why would Jagr spend his last year in the NHL playing for a last place team? He could make 10M in the KHL or try and win a cup in the NHL. Not sure why Edmonton would be an option.

    Also, if you are not sold on MPS enough to give him a top 6 role then trade him right now. His value is not going to increase playing in the bottom 6. Especially if he has to play with Belanger again.

    In the long history of the NHL young players started on lesser lines and worked their way up.

    I have no idea why people think it still doesn’t work that way.

    Too much watching EDM jam young men in positions above their ability perhaps?

    Couterier was 3C for PHI all year, should PHI get rid of him?

  75. Woodguy says:

    LP: HALL – RNH – EBERLE
    JAGR – GAGNER – HEMSKY

    I like these two top lines too.

    What would be a good contract? 2Y @ 3M? or 4M ?

    He’s 40. One year at a time. No cap worries for the Oilers this year so it really doesn’t matter.

  76. rickithebear says:

    Woodguy: Couterier was 3C for PHI all year, should PHI get rid of him?

    You know he was the best Defensive forward in the game last year as a rookie?

    Ps: this is for everyone else WG.

  77. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: Yeah, but he got those points playing the first line with Giroux and Hartnell.I imagine earning points is one of those reasons he’s still playing in the NHL.Interesting, but I don’t think Jagr bites.

    He might want to play with Elias if Parise jumps ship.

    You never know. He has said often he’d like to play with Hemsky, although I agree NJD makes a lot of sense.

    Also, 89 and 83 aren’t Giroux, but they’re not chopped liver either

    Trak,

    If he wanted to play in the KHL he would have stayed there last year.

    I think he goes to the highest NHL bidder, he did last year.

    I’m not sure if another Cup motivates him as much as money does. He really likes to gamble.

    Obv, $ isn’t everything as he’s not in the KHL.

  78. hunter1909 says:

    The only time I recall seeing old man Jagr this season was when he was huffing and puffing watching The Dynamite Kids(not a bad name that) running circles around him and his shitty(perpetually underachieving) team.

  79. Woodguy says:

    rickithebear: You know he was the best Defensive forward in the game last year as a rookie?

    Ps: this is for everyone else WG.

    Ricki!!!!

    You aren’t answering my questions aboyt your rating system.

    I’m dying to see it.

    Can you email it to me?

    Do I need to pay for it?

    Lemme know!!

    Also,

    Seguin started in the NHL on the 4th line.

  80. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: In the long history of the NHL young players started on lesser lines and worked their way up.

    I have no idea why people think it still doesn’t work that way.

    Too much watching EDM jam young men in positions above their ability perhaps?

    Couterier was 3C for PHI all year, should PHI get rid of him?

    The NHL also has a long history of players that flourished in other organizations after they were given a chance to succeed. Do you honestly think we should continue to play him with Belanger and wait for him to look dynamic? Jesus.

    Couturier was drafted as defensive dynamo and he was unitized that way last year. If you remember I suggested trading Gagner + for Couturier last season and was told how dumb it would be to trade Gagner for magic beans lol.

    If you want to play 40 year olds instead of putting top 10 picks in the position to succeed we probably aren’t going to agree on much.

  81. hunter1909 says:

    Come to think of it, collecting washed up old star players like Jagr is the reason why the LA Kings took 40+ years to win a single cup.

    Monumentally hilarious to see people using the Kings as an example for anything, except not making the playoffs for years after year, collecting endless high draft picks…wait.

  82. Traktor says:

    rickithebear:

    So who you going to replace him with.

    Yeah, its going to be really tough finding a center that would finish the year better than -23.

    If the new CBA allows for it we should give him a raise.

  83. DeadmanWaking says:

    The OHL scout is either not making a good pitch for players he likes or is the type that only sees faults.The OHL is the strongest junior league yet we are only picking a third of what we do in WHL.

    As there’s no possible chance OHL is over-scouted by the Eastern teams (who have trouble finding western Canada on an in-flight entertainment system) then sure, it’s all about us.

    Statistics is often better for asking questions than answering them. What does it mean to find yourself in flagrant deviation? Well, I tend to class pennants under deviation–and I think on that column we should deviate more often. Is there fear? Does Icarus fly too high above the bleating mass? Well, statistics tend not to answer this question: higher order moments are notoriously unreliable and difficult to estimate without converting a disused smelter into a data farm with its very own convection cell.

    Drafting is a bit like fishing. If you’re having success plucking more than your share of beauties out of your favorite tributary, are you in a rush to elbow your way through swarms of luckless also-rans to the front of the main torrent?

    MBS: Howdy Håkan. Shove over and make me some room for my tackle box. What the hell are you doing here, in Canada’s Kazakhstan?

    Håkan: Harrumph. Boss told me it was a bigger river, so now I’m rubbing shoulders with your lot. Lord tell me, somewhere in this Niagara delta of horndogs on the forecheck is there a coke machine who also drives puck possession? Jeebus, I’ve never seen so many fish breach like whales, knock themselves unconscious, and sink to the bottom chased all the way down by two dozen hooks. Where I used to fish, a real treasure makes no splash at all.”

    He’s so right. In every draft every team passes over at least one player they would have greatly preferred in retrospect.

    Best NHL Players Drafted Later Than 100th Overall

    Do these fish go unnoticed more often in the main torrent or the side tributaries? I’m not one of the rain men around here who have memorized the board for the last thirty seasons. What do the galoshes say?

  84. Traktor says:

    Next season will be MPS’ 4th season after being drafted.

    Seguin and Couturier played in the bottom 6 in their 1st season.

    Not even comparable.

  85. Jesse says:

    There’s this cool new thing called Corsi, you should check it out.
    But I mean, plus minus is cool too.

    Traktor: Yeah, its going to be really tough finding a center that would finish the year better than -23.

    If the new CBA allows for it we should give him a raise.

  86. Traktor says:

    Jesse:
    There’s this cool new thing called Corsi, you should check it out.
    But I mean, plus minus is cool too.

    Jim Corsi said himself that Corsi is not useful when looking at individual players.

    You should check it out.

  87. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: The NHL also has a long history of players that flourished in other organizations after they were given a chance to succeed. Do you honestly think we should continue to play him with Belanger and wait for him to look dynamic? Jesus.

    Couturier was drafted as defensive dynamo and he was unitized that way last year. If you remember I suggested trading Gagner + for Couturier last season and was told how dumb it would be to trade Gagner for magic beans lol.

    If you want to play 40 year olds instead of putting top 10 picks in the position to succeed we probably aren’t going to agree on much.

    Wow, you move the argument so much its unreal.

    1) Nowhere do I suggest MPS play with Belanger

    2) Sure, some player florish in other orgs. There’s a much, much deeper history of players working their way up the depth chart.

    3) Re: Couturier for Gagner. What’s your point here, I don’t get. Where did I say this?

    4). If you don’t want vet players to take roles that the kids aren’t ready for, then its the same old treadmill of watching young players flounder becuase they are over their heads. Having Jagr play 2LW for a year and hopefully have MPS show he is ready to take that job is a reasonable plan.

    Jamming MPS into 2LW and throwing him away if he founders is exactly what the Oilers have done for years and is a major reason why they they’ve been so terrible for so long.

  88. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    Next season will be MPS’ 4th season after being drafted.

    Seguin and Couturier played in the bottom 6 in their 1st season.

    Not even comparable.

    Yes it is. Look at NHL gams played.

    Where is the rule that all players MUST progress at the same pace.

    That’s how a guy like Sharp gets traded for nothing.

  89. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: Yeah, its going to be really tough finding a center that would finish the year better than -23.

    If the new CBA allows for it we should give him a raise.

    Sam Gagner had the best +/- on the Oilers last year, therefore according to Traktor he is the most valuable player on the Oilers.

  90. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: Wow, you move the argument so much its unreal.

    1) Nowhere do I suggest MPS play with Belanger

    2) Sure, some player florish in other orgs.There’s a much, much deeper history of players working their way up the depth chart.

    3) Re: Couturier for Gagner. What’s your point here, I don’t get. Where did I say this?

    4). If you don’t want vet players to take roles that the kids aren’t ready for, then its the same old treadmill of watching young players flounder becuase they are over their heads.Having Jagr play 2LW for a year and hopefully have MPS show he is ready to take that job is a reasonable plan.

    Jamming MPS into 2LW and throwing him away if he founders is exactly what the Oilers have done for years and is a major reason why they they’ve been so terrible for so long.

    1. If he is not playing in the top 6 then who is he playing with? Probably the same garbage that he played with last year. What exactly are you suggesting?

    2. Maybe he can take the Pouliot marathon career path. By 2021 he will be top notch.

    3. You brought up Couturier not me. I’m not surprised with the way he was used last year as he was labeled as Jordan Staal v.2 and sure enough he played against the toughest comp. Does that mean that MPS should follow the same path as Couturier?

    Come to think of it I would happily covert MPS to a shut down center and flush Horcoff and Belanger.

    4. Jagr coming to play for a 30th place team isn’t even a realistic option. I don’t think playing MPS with skilled players is any more “over his head” than playing him with shitty players on the 4th line.

    Most of our skilled lines actually had easy zone starts and didn’t play that much vs the best lines every night.

  91. Moosemess says:

    I think the Flyers are an interesting case study for Oiler fans. Edmoton often gets criticized for playing the youth too early but Philly has had good success throwing rooks into the breach as well. The key difference seems to be that Philly DOES start them off in the bottom six, and of course, they’re well sheltered with strength elsewhere in the lineup.

    Detroit gets a ton of kudos for patient player development, but they do seem to have their fair share of players who stay perpetually stuck in the A and don’t match their draft pedigree. Every team’s got a few of these guys.

  92. Traktor says:

    The point that I’m making is MPS still has enough value to get us something useful. If we don’t have confidence that he can play this year how confident are we that he can next year because another year on the 4th line or AHL and most of the shine will have come off.

    Its better to make make a decision and live with it instead “wait and see” and then blinding out.

  93. Cactus says:

    At the danger of going back into the nonsense media speculation, I thought this paragraph from Robin Brownlee’s latest was quite telling:

    “While the overwhelming consensus is the Oilers will follow up the selections of Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins by taking forward Nail Yakupov of the Sarnia Sting, and that’s the safe bet, that makes for a short series, so I went five deep with MacGregor – starting today with Mikhail Grigorenko.”

    In other words: the media needs new material to drive their coverage. Spending a month talking about why Yakupov is so great simply wouldn’t fly. Perhaps this is why every absurd rumour is thrust up as headline news, no?

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/6/18/fthm-i-mikhail-grigorenko

  94. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: 1. If he is not playing in the top 6 then who is he playing with? Probably the same garbage that he played with last year. What exactly are you suggesting?

    2. Maybe he can take the Pouliot marathon career path. By 2021 he will be top notch.

    3. You brought up Couturier not me. I’m not surprised with the way he was used last year as he was labeled as Jordan Staal v.2 and sure enough he played against the toughest comp. Does that mean that MPS should follow the same path as Couturier?

    Come to think of it I would happily covert MPS to a shut down center and flush Horcoff and Belanger.

    4. Jagr coming to play for a 30th place team isn’t even a realistic option. I don’t think playing MPS with skilled players is any more “over his head” than playing him with shitty players on the 4th line.

    Most of our skilled lines actually had easy zone starts and didn’t play that much vsthe best lines every night.

    1) You hate him, but 14 and 4 did very well with 10. I like him with 10 and whoever plays RW there.

    2) Yes, he has the 10th most points from his draft year (drafted 10th) even playing lots in the AHL, but if he doesn’t kick out the jams, he’s Pouliot. Straw man much?

    3) You said if he can’t play top 6 get ride of him. Why? The oilers bottom 6 were wretched last year. Why not improve it? Why can Couturier play 3C but MPS can’t play 3LW?

    4) So the 4th line and a skill line see the same D pairings? C’mon Trak, you know better.

  95. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    The point that I’m making is MPS still has enough value to get us something useful. If we don’t have confidence that he can play this year how confident are we that he can next year because another year on the 4th line or AHL and most of the shine will have come off.

    Its better to make make a decision and live with it instead “wait and see” and then blinding out.

    After Hall the Oiler’s LW depth falls off the face of the earth.

    He has more value to EDM than what they could get in trade.

    Imo. He’s Dvorak, and that’s a good hockey player in the right role.

  96. Moosemess says:

    Traktor, I think you have a good sense for how the game is played and the skills that players actually need to survive and excel in this league, but…I do think selling on MPS at this point would be giving up on him too early.

    One thing that MPS had to contend with is Eberle and Hall and then RNH in quick succession were the golden boys and the hc gave them the cherry picked minutes and linemates. MPS has also had to contend with the adjustment to the smaller ice surface and that takes some time. I would like to see him break camp in the A this year and really learn the NA game with a solid development year with consistent linemates and Nelson schooling him on the finer points of playing a solid two way game. Leave him in the majors with the tacit pressure that he should be producing points at this level and you’re not developing the player as much as you’re saying ‘sink or swim.’

    We know MPS has world class skills. We know he has a great attitude. What we don’t know is whether he has the courage to take himself in the high contact areas and whether he can develop a strong head for the game. The good news is the latter stuff can be taught and learned. The former stuff can’t.

    The reference is dated but I could see MPS developing into a Bob Bourne type player and that’s a very valuable component on a Cup contender.

  97. Traktor says:

    Philadelphia really is a great comparison. Ed Snider does not stand for under-performing veterans and Paul Holmgren wouldn’t be afraid to make a big trade.

    By comparison the veterans in Edmonton get a free pass (Bulin is back, Hemsky gets 2 year extension, and everything is honky dory when Edmonton’s shutdown centers go -36) and you could list Tambellini’s trade history on a post-it-note.

  98. Moosemess says:

    Couldn’t agree more. Entitlement towards the vets has definitely been an issue with the Oil for awhile. It’s one of the key issues if not THE key question for the incoming coach. How do you cross the chasm between the emerging core and the soon to be outgoing vets, get buy-in across the board, and unite the room?

  99. Woodguy says:

    Woodguy: Sam Gagner had the best +/- on the Oilers last year, therefore according to Traktor he is the most valuable player on the Oilers.

    This post hasn’t been addressed.

  100. Lowetide says:

    I’m SOOOOO looking forward to the answer. :-)

  101. Traktor says:

    Moose:

    I don’t think I’m selling MPS short. My first option would be to play him in the top 6.

    If you are going to draft someone in the top 10 you do everything you can to develop an impact player. The best way to do that is play him with skilled players.

    Its like drafting a pitcher in the top 10. You always let him develop as a starter before sticking him in the bullpen.

    Woodguy is telling us we should sign Jamie Moyer and try to develop MPS into a good relief pitcher.

    Its ridiculous.

  102. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: This post hasn’t been addressed.

    Horcoff obviously had tougher assignments than Gagner last year but both failed in their roles. You can try and twist my words but that’s really the bottom line – both failed in their roles.

    For Edmonton to have success Gagner needs to produce 60-65 points in that easy minute role or Shawn Horcoff and Eric Belaneger need to go from -36 to around -15.

  103. Ducey says:

    Whats the rush with MPS? Let him spend the first half of next year in the AHL and give him spot NHL duty when guys get hurt.

    Swedes take longer to adjust. Look at Daniel Sedin. He was stuck at 30+ pts for 4 years in the NHL until he broke out. That was his 5th year post draft.

    MPS can play 4th line minutes if he is given some help. He plays good defense, is big, and can check very well. MPS – VDV – Hartikanen would make a fine 4th line by midseason. All can be moved up and down the lineup during a game to deal with matchups, guys not trying, etc.

  104. DSF says:

    Woodguy: After Hall the Oiler’s LW depth falls off the face of the earth.

    He has more value to EDM than what they could get in trade.

    Imo.He’s Dvorak, and that’s a good hockey player in the right role.

    Oh good grief…hanging on to draft picks until they start to smell is a long time Oiler trait.

    Paajarvi is not Dvorak.

    Dvorak didn’t spend a second playing in the minors.

    He played in the NHL at 18.

    4 years after being drafted, like Paajarvi, he scored 18 goals and 43 points and followed that up with 18 goal, 50 point and 31 goal, 67 point seasons.

  105. Captain Obvious says:

    The Oilers shouldn’t make any major deals. In order to win a deal the person you are trading with has to either over value your player or under value their player. Right now there isn’t a single person on the Oilers who has more perceived value then their projected performance. As a consequence they will lose any deal they make unless it is for a similarly undervalued player.

    For instance, the Kings won the Stanley Cup because they were able to trade away Jack Johnson (one of the worst Defensemen in the league). They were able to do this because despite the fact that Jack Johnson is terrible, other teams thought he was good. Unfortunately the Oilers don’t have a Jack Johnson. If they do make a trade it will be a repeat of the Tom Gilbert fiasco because the reputation of their good players doesn’t match their ability.

    The problem with the Oilers isn’t that their good players aren’t good. The problem is that they only have a handful of good players. Horcoff and Gagner aren’t the problem; the problem is they don’t have enough of them. That problem can’t be solved through trade.

  106. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: Horcoff obviously had tougher assignments than Gagner last year but both failed in their roles. You can try and twist my words but that’s really the bottom line – both failed in their roles.

    For Edmonton to have success Gagner needs to produce 60-65 points in that easy minute role or Shawn Horcoff and Eric Belaneger need to go from -36 to around -15.

    I’m not twisting your words.

    You often use +/- as an arbitor of who I’d god and who it isn’t.

    I guess you only use it when it suits your needs.

    As expected.

  107. Woodguy says:

    DSF: Oh good grief…hanging on to draft picks until they start to smell is a long time Oiler trait.

    Paajarvi is not Dvorak.

    Dvorak didn’t spend a second playing in the minors.

    He played in the NHL at 18.

    4 years after being drafted, like Paajarvi, he scored 18 goals and 43 points and followed that up with 18 goal, 50 point and 31 goal, 67 point seasons.

    Yeah, he’s 10th in scoring from his draft class where he was taken 10th.

    ALL PROSPECTS ARE GREAT BY 21!!!

    BURN HIM!!!

  108. Woodguy says:

    Woodguy: I’m not twisting your words.

    You often use +/- as an arbitor of who I’d god and who it isn’t.

    I guess you only use it when it suits your needs.

    As expected.

    Lordy.

    Should read :”who is good and who isn’t”

  109. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: I’m not twisting your words.

    You often use +/- as an arbitor of who I’d god and who it isn’t.

    I guess you only use it when it suits your needs.

    As expected.

    I think I explained myself in the post above.

    As usual you would rather be wrong twice than see the light.

    Go hard.

  110. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: I think I explained myself in the post above.

    As usual you would rather be wrong twice than see the light.

    Go hard.

    No, you use +/- as an arbitor of who is good and who is not, without any context and you do it often.

  111. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Yeah, he’s 10th in scoring from his draft class where he was taken 10th.

    ALL PROSPECTS ARE GREAT BY 21!!!

    BURN HIM!!!

    There’s only one reason is he is tenth in scoring.

    The Oilers are so desperate they played him a full season in the NHL and he got significant PP time due to injury.

    He’s already been passed by 4 defensemen from his draft class.

    How bad is that?

    I’d wager Schenn, Kreider and Josefson blow by him next season.

    He should have spent two full years in the AHL based on his skill set in which case he wouldn’t be in the top 20 in scoring.

  112. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: No, you use +/- as an arbitor of who is good and who is not, without any context and you do it often.

    I do use context but I don’t lose sight of the end result.

    If Horcoff played tough situations according to BTN and finished the year -50 is that still acceptable? Where do you draw he line?

    To me -23 is terrible even with BTN factors.

    With Gagner his +5 is obviously better than -5 but he was was put in offensive situations 5v5 and received PP time. I don’t think he produced enough offensively, especially when Horcoff was getting murdered on the other end. He salvaged his season boxscore-wise with an 8 point game but overall it was disappointing.

    Edmonton needs a better option down the middle.

  113. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: I do use context but I don’t lose sight of the end result.

    If Horcoff played tough situations according to BTN and finished the year -50 is that still acceptable? Where do you draw he line?

    To me -23 is terrible even with BTN factors.

    With Gagner his +5 is obviously better than -5 but he was was put in offensive situations 5v5 and received PP time. I don’t think he produced enough offensively, especially when Horcoff was getting murdered on the other end. He salvaged his season boxscore-wise with an 8 point game but overall it was disappointing.

    Edmonton needs a better option down the middle.

    You are using context now.

    You usually don’t.

  114. Woodguy says:

    DSF: There’s only one reason is he is tenth in scoring.

    The Oilers are so desperate they played him a full season in the NHL and he got significant PP time due to injury.

    He’s already been passed by 4 defensemen from his draft class.

    How bad is that?

    I’d wager Schenn,Kreider and Josefson blow by him next season.

    He should have spent two full years in the AHL based on his skill set in which case he wouldn’t be in the top 20 in scoring.

    So he might be 14th?

    BURN HIM!!!!!!!!!!

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