EXAMINING HJALMARSSON

Niklas Hjalmarsson has been mentioned a few times on the radio in the last few days as a possible Oiler target. I imagine the price would be steep. He’s a stay-at-home shutdown type whose style and bio is similar to Ladislav Smid’s. He isn’t going to be an offensive dynamo but would give Edmonton a nice trio for the left side of the blueline.

  1. Ladislav Smid 20:54 TOI (17:28EV; 3:22 SH)
  2. Niklas Hjalmarsson 20:10 TOI (17:42EV; 2:22 SH)
  3. Nick Schultz 19:42 TOI (16:45 EV; 2:25 SH)

None of these players would be considered for the PP on any team. I think that’s a pretty nice EV and PK trio, and the Oilers would be a better team in those disciplines by adding Hjarlmarsson.

 QUAL COMP

For our purposes, I’d ask you to ignore Oduya on this list. He played fewer than 20 games with Chicago so shouldn’t be part of the conversation. Qual Comp tells us the young man was the #4 defender for the team, ahead of O’Donnell and Montador (plus John Scott). He and Leddy are well back of the thoroughbreds but that’s still a nice number.

ZONE STARTS

Man it must be nice to watch this team every night, the playing field is well better than level. I think his number here is fine, third toughest (remember Oduya) in the group despite being 52% offensive.

CORSI REL

What an interesting chart. Hjalmarsson ranks lowest but the range is narrow (10 points, basically) and show nice quality and depth.

You may have another view (and please share) but Hjalmarsson looks like a worthy defender to me and a player Edmonton would certainly be able to play in their top 4D this coming season. If they could find a way to keep him without trading away another defensive asset, that would represent a clear improvement.

The Oilers need (again imo) a player with a wide range of skills this summer, but they are difficult to acquire. If they end up adding a strong puck mover for the right side (to go in between Petry and Whitney) and acquire Hjalmarsson from the Hawks I think we can conclude the defense will be more airtight in 12-13.

WHAT WOULD IT COST?

He’s a 3.5M cap hit (and that’s a lot for this player type, Schenn-range) and defensemen cost a lot on the trade market–usually more than they’re worth. He’s also a free agent in 2014 so the team runs the risk of losing him after two seasons.

I’d guess the cost would be too dear–something in the Sam Gagner range with maybe an asset coming back to Edmonton.

I like the player, but wouldn’t make that deal. What say you?

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100 Responses to "EXAMINING HJALMARSSON"

  1. Kris11 says:

    I’d pass. We have decent, offensively challenged LD up the wazoo. Keep Hjalmarsson out of the wazoo. We need some puck movers up our wazoo,

  2. striatic says:

    no way.

    and if you send Gagner out, who is going to play C? Lander?

    this whole trade F for D dynamic makes no sense. the Oilers simply don’t have the free assets on offense, with the exception of Hemsky and that’s only if Yakupov quickly proves his worth.

  3. prairieschooner says:

    Charts and tables are all fine and dandy LT
    but
    what is his PQ (poise quotient)

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    You’re saying Gager for Hjalmarsson +….

    I don’t know much about trades and assessing value but off the top of my head that would be very interesting. I would have guessed (the market tilting toward D) we’d be the ones giving up the + not Chicago.

    I’m leaning toward Tyutin myself for our extra. But that is another stay-at-home left sider.

    Is it possible all our offensive D could wind up on the right? is there some natural predilection for right = offence?

    Finally, I’d just like to note how great a name Johnny Oduya is. just great… it always sounds like a challenge – Oh, do ya?

    And it is made even greater by your chart doubling down on his last name: “Johnny Oduya Oduya”… it would take a few line readings to nail that one:

    “these pretzels are making me thirsty!” (nailed it!)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su_o4Nvmr_M

  5. Lowetide says:

    prairieschooner:
    Charts and tables are all fine and dandy LT
    but
    what is his PQ(poise quotient)

    lol. Puck poise is 7!

  6. mattwatt says:

    It is not your fault LT, but seeing posts like this get me so damn mad.

    This team is screaming to have a Tom Gilbert added to its roster. Yet they threw him away.

    And some people wonder why I drink.

  7. mattwatt says:

    Should comment that they didn’t throw Gilbert away. I like Schultz, very good player.

    Just right now, the Oilers need Gilbert more.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Tyutin actually has a nice range of skills. He’s high on my list
    http://oilersnation.com/2012/3/28/the-perfect-jacket

  9. CrazyCoach says:

    I always liked that Hammestrom kid. Thought he got a raw deal from Ballard.

    Oops, wrong decade.

    Hjalmmarsson is interesting, but the price tag is too high right now.

  10. Henry says:

    Hjarll for Gagner would be ironic. On Sam’s big 8 point night, he would have had perhaps 3 points if #4 for Chicago tightened the laces on his skates. His numbers are ok, but I think the Oilers can do better and need a right side guy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA9bAiAFbYk

  11. Kris11 says:

    LT,

    If they just add Schultz, Yakupov, and Smyth (or the equivalent vet LW) and make a minor change here or there (say, Belanger moved for a similiar player) what are the odds that they make the playoffs?

    Or rather, what are the odds that they’ll be close enough to the playoffs to be a buyer at the deadline?

    Good? Bad? or Ugly?

    I’d say bad, not ugly. But am interested in what you think.

  12. Lowetide says:

    Kris: It comes down to how many actual NHL players they have. I don’t think we can count on Schultz to be a plus player in year one, Yakupov either. So let’s count the actual NHL players with Smyth on the roster:

    1. Dubnyk
    2. Smid
    3. Petry
    4. Schultz
    5. Sutton
    6. Nuge
    7. Gagner
    8. Horcoff
    9. Hall
    10. Smyth
    11. Hemsky
    12. Eberle

    So they aren’t there yet. IF Whitney is healthy and IF Schultz can make it and IF Theo is serious about his career and IF Belanger recovers and IF Paajarvi IF Hartikainen IF Lander and on it goes.

    Lots of guys on this roster aren’t veteran hands who can help you win. They’re kids trying not to drown.

  13. FPB94 says:

    LT: What’s up with you popping articles up so fast lately?

    Got more spare time / income from the site?

    The only thing i’d say about Hjalmarsson is that we already have that type of guy. And 2 is enough. Tyutin’s a killer tough. And Smid’s probably worth more than we tought.

  14. Lowetide says:

    lol, no. Just lots to talk about and I have several “in the can” as it were.

  15. cabbiesmacker says:

    On June 24th I replied to a few that were toossing NH’s name around.

    “As for Hjalmarsson be careful what you wish for. He’s regressed imo and most Hawk fans would not miss him at all. I disagree with those who think he’d improve the Oilers top 4. Whitney, Schultz, Petry and Smid are all better Dmen. If Schultz should happen to come along NH would be the #6 at $3.5M per for 2 years. Theres better options for that kind of money.”

    Russ 99 lives in Chitown and basically backed me up.

    As for how some Hawks fans feel here’s a couple of articles written by a Hawks blogger. Not real scientific but he makes some interesting points.

    http://committedindians.com/do-the-blackhawks-miss-niklas-hjalmarsson/

    http://committedindians.com/niklas-hjalmarsson-time-to-go/#more-9318

    If there’s a dman to pursue on the Hawks it should be Duncan Keith if the Hawks are serious about going after Suter and needing to free up cash to do so. Some in Hawks management are not enamored.

  16. justDOit says:

    Would rather have Matt Carle than Hjarlm….

  17. rickithebear says:

    mattwatt:
    It is not your fault LT, but seeing posts like this get me so damn mad.

    This team is screaming to have a Tom Gilbert added to its roster. Yet they threw him away.

    And some people wonder why I drink.

    yes 3.30Ga/60 dmen without Smid are sooooooooooo rare.

  18. justDOit says:

    Lowetide:
    lol, no. Just lots to talk about and I have several “in the can” as it were.

    but nothing posted on ON by you in the last 5 or so articles… or is the ON site a different can?

  19. Kris11 says:

    Thanks LT,

    I’d say most teams don’t have many actual NHL’ers on the 4th line and third pairing. Lots of teams with blah depth have made the playoffs. Phoenix ran MAP and Brule, no? It’s a league with parity now. The competition is running aome duds out at the bottom of the roster, too.

    Moreover, 4th line ES minutes don’t matter a lot in terms of goal differential and wins over the course of the season. Depth D-men do matter, and that’s one reason I’d set the odds at bad, not good.

    But you’re right that there are too many IFs again this year. The good thing is that some of the bets aremore likely to be successful than the past. We used to bet that Rowbert Nillsson could play the top 6. Now we’re betting that Nail Yakupov can play soft minutes with RNH.

    The odds that a lot of our iF’s will turn out well is a lot, lot better than in the past. And other teams, Calgary, Phoenix, Nashville, even Dallas have some big IF’s too. I’m not saying the Oilera are a favorite for the playoffs, but I wouldn’t set the odds that long. Not anymore.

  20. Lowetide says:

    I have a certain number for Oilers Nation each month and wrote a lot leading up to the draft. So I’ll post one tomorrow probably and then Saturday.

  21. gogliano says:

    cabbiesmacker:
    On June 24th I replied to a few that were toossing NH’s name around.

    “As for Hjalmarsson be careful what you wish for. He’s regressed imo and most Hawk fans would not miss him at all. I disagree with those who think he’d improve the Oilers top 4. Whitney, Schultz, Petry and Smid are all better Dmen. If Schultz should happen to come along NH would be the #6 at $3.5M per for 2 years. Theres better options for that kind of money.”

    Russ 99 lives in Chitown and basically backed me up.

    As for how some Hawks fans feel here’s a couple of articles written by a Hawks blogger. Not real scientific but he makes some interesting points.

    http://committedindians.com/do-the-blackhawks-miss-niklas-hjalmarsson/

    http://committedindians.com/niklas-hjalmarsson-time-to-go/#more-9318

    If there’s a dman to pursue on the Hawks it should be Duncan Keith if the Hawks are serious about going after Suter and needing to free up cash to do so. Some in Hawks management are not enamored.

    Sam Gagner for Duncan Keith + maybe?

  22. striatic says:

    Kris11: (or the equivalent vet LW)

    umn .. Ray Whitney?

  23. justDOit says:

    maybe we could sign this guy to help Nail fit in?

    http://imgur.com/8YsU4

  24. cabbiesmacker says:

    gogliano: Sam Gagner for Duncan Keith + maybe?

    Keith + for Gagner?? Try Sammy +++++++. Not that the Hawks would be interested in Gagner much. They’re looking to get bigger at C…not smurfer. Pretty sure top end talent is high on their list as well. Sam don’t fit.

  25. Bar_Qu says:

    Lowetide:
    Kris: It comes down to how many actual NHL players they have. I don’t think we can count on Schultz to be a plus player in year one, Yakupov either. So let’s count the actual NHL players with Smyth on the roster:

    1. Dubnyk
    2. Smid
    3. Petry
    4. Schultz
    5. Sutton
    6. Nuge
    7. Gagner
    8. Horcoff
    9. Hall
    10. Smyth
    11. Hemsky
    12. Eberle

    So they aren’t there yet. IF Whitney is healthy and IF Schultz can make it and IF Theo is serious about his career and IF Belanger recovers and IF Paajarvi IF Hartikainen IF Lander and on it goes.

    Lots of guys on this roster aren’t veteran hands who can help you win. They’re kids trying not to drown.

    Your Edmonton Oilers. Unofficial motto since 2006: If the good Lord’s willing, and the creek don’t rise

    Hjarlmarlsssonsamd would be a good candidate for the platoon defense concept (flawed but complementary) if the cap hit were lower. Which really isn’t the problem for the Oilers. Giving up lots for him would be. Maybe if the Hawks were interested in a D prospect like Marincin or Gernat (shoot, offer them Teubert) but not a centre. Not a core guy.

  26. mattwatt says:

    rickithebear: yes 3.30Ga/60 dmen without Smid are sooooooooooo rare.

    I get it RickiTheBear. Tom Gilbert is bad. Historically bad.

    Ben Eager is good and could be historically good if only the Oilers gave him more ice time. It is that wrist shot of Eager’s isn’t it. The man knows how to shoot. If only Eager was allowed to ride shotgun with RNH and Eberle. Oh my the games they would play.

    Completely ignoring the facts that:
    a) he face subpar competition (ranked 13 in quality of competition) all year and only put up the numbers he did;
    b) Has a relative corsi of -8.8, most certainly nothing to write home about;
    c) takes unnecessay penalties, highlighted by the fact that he took 1.5 times more penalties than he drew (comparatively, this is an extremely high ratio); and
    d) He struggles with consistency, big time. Good a few nights, not as good for a lot more.

    I too see a lot of talent in Eager. It is apparent in his movements on the ice. Issues is that while he has the talent, he is lacking the smarts. Not his fault, some are more apt at playing the game then others. But even though it is not his fault, the Oilers should avoid playing him in the top six. His record over the past 4 years show this.

    Hate Gilbert all you want, that is fine. Just that this roster needs a Gilbert more than an Eager right now. Fairly certain many other fans feel the same way.

    It is just the select few like you who don’t.

  27. Lowetide says:

    Eager has terrific speed but can’t take a pass. It’s incredible. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t observed it for a year.

  28. Bar_Qu says:

    I suspect Eager is one of those guys like Fraser or Brule or ______ who move on from here and surprise everyone by how well they do. Except they are doing exactly the same thing on a much better built team. I don’t actually have an issue with Eager other than the expectation that he will the make the Oilers better is totally unfounded. He will continue being the player he is and simply cannot be seen as the solution to a problem. An incomplete roster exposes this type of player’s weaknesses and prevents fans from getting behind the good things they do, because he can’t do enough of them to cover for rookies, over-played vets and incomplete defense.

  29. mattwatt says:

    Lowetide: Eager has terrific speed but can’t take a pass. It’s incredible. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t observed it for a year.

    He has great speed Lowetide. When watching him play, it is easy to see why he was a high draft pick. Lot of talent there in a big frame.

  30. Traktor says:

    If things were flipped around and we had Hjalmarsson and Chicago had Gagner I don’t think many fans would like the idea of trading away Hjalmarsson.

    Gagner is easily replaceable IMO. He plays against scrubs 5×5, doesn’t kill penalties, has played PP the last 5 seasons and has never cracked 50 points or 20 goals.

    He has a great attitude which makes him likable but you can’t hold onto every player that you like. Especially when you need to give up something to get something.

    My list of players/prospects I wouldn’t trade are RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Petry, Klefbom, and Pitlick.

  31. Lowetide says:

    Eager’s Oiler season is about what we might have expected, historically. WATCHING it was the shock.

  32. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Traktor,

    I’m going to add Smid because… well.. Smid.

    But I’m wondering about Pitlick. I definitely have hopes for him… but I would never have thought someone would put him in the untouchable list… what are you seeing? (honest question)

    @everyone else:

    Eager… strange case. I remember him hitting everything that moved in that SJ/Van series when he was on the ice. It was great, but reckless.

    I was hoping we’d get that crazy but find a way to channel it more productively.

    Instead he got a concussion and looked off most of the year, though he had some stellar moments.

    It would be great if he came back ready to rip it up “controlled crazy” style and could be an 82 permanent fixture on the 3rd line. That would make me very, very happy.

    Which raises a question: is there no way for fans to track player progress in the off-season? It is such a long time for us to be sitting with ? over the heads of players like Eager. (not that he or the team owes us a look at his training or improvement or anything).

  33. TheOtherJohn says:

    Eager has played for Philly, Chicago, Atlanta, San Jose and Edmonton. He’s 28. He may take over the nickname “suitcase” from Gary Smith. Very big body, fast skater, good body checker, good fighter, GREAT wrist shot. He has every skill set to be a great prototypical PF. Every coach seeing him play thinks they can make him into an elite player. Save anyone who has coached him. His drawback, a nickel head!! You cannot correct that flaw. Not ever!!

    To those of you who suggest trading for Duncan Keith — great idea!! GREAT! Mind you it will cost us one of Hall or RNH. Could we ask for Toews too. Alternate plan could we trade for Karlsson or Doughty?

  34. FPB94 says:

    If Boxscores were erased for whatever purposes, Ben Eager would have been a lotto pick.

  35. cabbiesmacker says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    Hey TOJ? Reading comp issues? You don’t know much about the Hawks obviously so heres an education.

    Bowman is not enamored.

    He’s not the same Keith who won the 2010 cup.

    Hawks want cap room to go after Suter

    Why would the Hawks want a kid they have to sign to similar to Keith $$ after this season?

    Oilers have some pieces to offer. Next years first, Yakupov, young d, etc.

  36. Cactus says:

    Not trying to step on your toes, LT, but Jonathan Willis had a look at Hjalmarsson as well (in case people want a little more reading):

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/6/25/report-edmonton-oilers-interested-in-defenseman-niklas-hjalmarsson

    Much like you and Mr. Willis, I’m inclined to think he’s not the perfect fit for the Oilers right now, especially if he comes at any serious price. Smid and Schultz do a pretty good job as defence first guys and Sutton did a decent job in bottom pairing minutes.

    Bottom line: I don’t think Hjalmarsson is sufficiently better than either Schultz or Smid to be worth paying for.

  37. Lowetide says:

    Cactus: Links to other blogs and stories are always welcome.

  38. Gret99zky says:

    Where/who are the cap troubled teams we should be calling?

    We need to find the teams poised to go big FA hunting and give them some cap room by taking a real NHLer off their hands.

    Kind of like LA last year except without the player making the deal.

    Is there any team pressing the cap with a less than desirable contract that we can take on to make this season less lotteryish?

  39. FPB94 says:

    Patrick Marleau to some degree.

  40. Traktor says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Pitlick has a wide range of skills. In baseball terms he is a 5 tool player. I don’t know if he will reach his potential but we don’t really have anyone like that in the organization.

    He reminds of of Kesler without the scoring but even a 30 point Kelser is a great player because he is such a pain in the ass to play against. I think we will see a lot more offense from Pitlick this year. I don’t put too much stock in his numbers in the AHL this year because most of his draft class was playing in the CHL this year.

  41. Gerta Rauss says:

    Gret99zky,

    Buffalo

    Regehr or Leopold might be small bets with not much risk.

  42. spoiler says:

    LT said…

    If they end up adding a strong puck mover for the right side (to go in between Petry and Whitney) and acquire Hjalmarsson from the Hawks I think we can conclude the defense will be more airtight in 12-13.

    I don’t get this since Whitney plays the left side and not the right. Schultz Sr. however plays both.

    Maybe you meant Schultz?

    Hjalmarsson would be behind Smid and Whitney on the left, but he’s still a more useful body than Peckham.

    And there’s no way on this planet they’re trading Gagner for this level of player. No way.

  43. TheOtherJohn says:

    TraktoR

    A 5 tool player does not score 35 points in the AHL. He scores 30 goals, has 65 points, has 200PIMs, hits everything that moves and terrifies your goon

    Pitlick may develop into a 3line W. MAY!! If not, he will be a 4L W

    A 5 tool player is Bonds, Griffey jr,,A Dawson etc, not 2-3 tool player.

  44. bendelson says:

    I’d like to know what stevezie smith thinks.

    Only then will I know what to think about Hjalmarsson.

  45. Archie says:

    LT you have must be dipping into the sauce to consider this Marshmallow. If did some checking you would find out he was part of a PK that was 27th in the league and had less then 50 hits per year for the last 2 years. His TOI slipped to 16-17mpg after the Hawks traded for Oduya and was playing 3rd pairing minutes. Is he better then Schultz, IMO he’s not even close. He’s a good positional player and will block a shot, but Schultz and Smid are better. The Hawks D outside of their top pair wasn’t much better then Edmontons and they were basically tied in goals against. For a team that relies on their D for their grit, Niklas Hjalmarsson would be the last person you would want.

  46. DSF says:

    Traktor:
    If things were flipped around and we had Hjalmarsson and Chicago had Gagner I don’t think many fans would like the idea of trading away Hjalmarsson.

    Gagner is easily replaceable IMO. He plays against scrubs 5×5, doesn’t kill penalties, has played PP the last 5 seasons and has never cracked 50 points or 20 goals.

    He has a great attitude which makes him likable but you can’t hold onto every player that you like. Especially when you need to give up something to get something.

    My list of players/prospects I wouldn’t trade are RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Petry, Klefbom, and Pitlick.

    No Hartikainen?

    Looks like a player.

  47. FPB94 says:

    5 tool means nothing most of the time.

    it’s just a very inflated perception of being average at everything and good at nothing.

  48. Doug McLachlan says:

    Ok, Hjalmerson is not a fit. You have convinced me.

    On to other targets.

    Can we circle back around to Yandle. Whatever his flaws, he was a Norris candidate a year ago and certainly looks the roll of a top pairing defenseman. Gagner and MPS wasn’t enough at the draft but I got the sense that it was the best offer Phoenix got. Might the price change? Does the mix need to change?

  49. Lowetide says:

    I like Pitlick too, suspect he’ll get a massive push once he starts being physical more consistently. He also shot a lot on net, more than 2 shots per game, but didn’t find the net often.

    The big thing for him is that he needs to play at the same level next season. In the last 4 seasons, he’s gone from USHS, NCAA, WHL and AHL.

  50. Lowetide says:

    Archie:
    LT you have must be dipping into the sauce to consider this Marshmallow. If did some checking you would find outhe was part of a PK that was 27th in the league and had less then 50 hits per year for the last 2 years. His TOI slipped to 16-17mpg after the Hawks traded for Oduya and was playing 3rd pairing minutes. Is he better then Schultz, IMO he’s not even close. He’s a good positional player and will block a shot, but Schultz and Smid are better. The Hawks D outside of their top pair wasn’t much better then Edmontons and they were basically tied in goals against. For a team that relies on their D for their grit, Niklas Hjalmarsson would be the last person you would want.

    I’d read his name a bit in the msm as a possible target, that’s why I looked at him. I’ll tell you, the other guy I’m hearing about on msm (from Columbus) would be a very poor fit (Methot).

  51. fuzzy muppet says:

    David Staples ‏@dstaples
    Ted Kulfan of the Detroit News says Wings out of the Schultz sweepstakes. So much for offering that guaranteed roster spot. #Oilers

  52. DSF says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    David Staples ‏@dstaples
    Ted Kulfan of the Detroit News says Wings out of the Schultz sweepstakes. So much for offering that guaranteed roster spot. #Oilers

    Columbus also turned down for a interview.

  53. Clay says:

    Gerta Rauss,

    I read this and a mental picture of Regehr in an Oilers jersey flashed through my head. Didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  54. Noodles says:

    This has probably already been posted somewhere, but just in case it hasn’t: NHL.com’s draft profile for Justin Schultz

    He lists the Canucks as his favorite NHL team and Edmonton as his favorite place to visit. Read into that what you will.

    I apologize if this is old news.

  55. FPB94 says:

    Noodles,

    He’s a boring guy.

  56. Cactus says:

    DSF: Columbus also turned down for a interview.

    Columbus not in the running? Shocking.

  57. Archie says:

    Lowetide,

    I heard the same thing and have seen his name kicked around, but is he better then Peckham I don’t know. I thought the Oilers would be looking for a least a puck moving D in case Whitney goes down again. With Peckham, Sutton, Fedun, and Teubert, why do trade for a D that was a 3rd pairing D on the worse team in the league with a 3mil cap hit. Good chance he could beat out by one or all these players and then your stuck with his contract. IMO the the Oilers will stand pat and see how some of their prospects and Peckham preform at TC. I liked what I saw of Fedun and you never know. Best not jump the gun until you know what you have, unless someone offers you a top pairing D.

  58. Rondo says:

    Noodles:
    This has probably already been posted somewhere, but just in case it hasn’t: NHL.com’s draft profile for Justin Schultz

    He lists the Canucks as his favorite NHL team and Edmonton as his favorite place to visit. Read into that what you will.

    I apologize if this is old news.

    Edmonton is a nice place but unless you have family there I wouldn’t put it up as my favorite place to visit.

    There is something sleazy about this whole process regarding Justin Schultz, all these teams circling the meat.

  59. FPB94 says:

    I predict he signs on some lousy team no one’s been talking about. Like the Devils.

  60. PaperDesigner says:

    If Chicago is dealing him as a salary dump, sure. I’d be a little more eager if he was a right shot, but hey, having a solid defensive defenceman per pairing isn’t too bad. It would mean they’d need to grab either Schultz or another D-man in free agency, though. But if you could run:

    Smid-Petry
    Schultz-Schultz
    Hjalmarsson-Whitney

    I think you essentially have three reasonable second pairings. I think it would be enough. And there’s room for moving guys up or down depending on how well their seasons are going.

  61. Gret99zky says:

    What would it take to outbid teams looking to sign Jagr?

    I’ve read he likes to make a bet or two and could use the cash.

    One year with incentives too sparkly to refuse?

  62. rickithebear says:

    See ben score goals.
    See ben get a low GA.
    See ben have high Save %
    See ben be a plus player.
    who shold ben play third Comp with?

    oh that is right he should play with MP the 2nd best Corsi player on the team. Bahahahahahahahah.

    your killing me!

    Go Ben!

  63. spoiler says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    TraktoR

    A 5 tool player does not score 35 points in the AHL. He scores 30 goals,has 65 points, has 200PIMs, hits everything that movesand terrifies your goon

    Pitlick may develop into a 3line W. MAY!! If not, he will be a 4L W

    A 5 tool player is Bonds, Griffey jr,,ADawson etc, not2-3 tool player.

    TOJ

    Billy Beane was a 5 tool player and he flamed out. They’re not always all stars

  64. spoiler says:

    Gret99zky:
    What would it take to outbid teams looking to sign Jagr?

    I’ve read he likes to make a bet or two and could use the cash.

    One year with incentives too sparkly to refuse?

    No, I think he refuses that all day every day.

    Jagr will sign somewhere Cup worthy in the East once Parisé’s status shakes out, is my guess. He’s not over here to cover his gambling debts.

  65. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Noodles,

    I find this profoundly problematic:

    “Groups: Finger Eleven and Nickelback”

  66. TheOtherJohn says:

    Spoiler

    5 tool players describe people who have skills who can do absolutely everything!!! Beene was a mid 80′s projected 5 tool player. Lots of them fail. Lots! Rarely at Single A. Pitlick is not hitting for power or average, nor, insofar as I can tell,is he killing it defensively. That would reduce him to a 2 tool player.

    Once he got it, Messier was a 5 tool player. Howe was 5 tool player, as was Rocket Richard. Gretzky, God love him, was never a 5 tool player. Now the tools he did have were otherworldly, but 5 tools, nope.

    Cannot for th life of me recall the name of the Dodgers CF/RF from 1940′s/1950′s that kept running through outfield fences: original 5 tool player. LT , Bruce or Dennis will recall hi name. Duke, Mays and Mantle in mid 50′s all 5 tool CF in NYC. Duke, of course, gets bonus points for calling Expo games: clear winner!

  67. cabbiesmacker says:

    Noodles:

    He lists the Canucks as his favorite NHL team and Edmonton as his favorite place to visit. Read into that what you will.

    Betting Edmonton was a lot of NHL players favorite place to “visit.” A guaranteed 2 points against a team that doesn’t kick back will make it that.

  68. TheOtherJohn says:

    Pete Reiser

  69. Archie says:

    Looks like its down to Edmonton and Vancouver for the Schultz sweepstakes

  70. spoiler says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Spoiler

    5 tool players describe people who have skills who can do absolutely everything!!!Beenewas a mid 80′s projected 5 tool player. Lots of them fail. Lots! Rarely at Single A. Pitlick is not hitting for power or average, nor, insofar as I can tell,is he killing it defensively. That would reduce him to a 2 tool player.

    Once he got it, Messier was a 5 tool player. Howe was 5 tool player, as was Rocket Richard. Gretzky, God love him, was never a 5 tool player. Now the tools he did have were otherworldly, but 5 tools, nope.

    Cannot for th life of me recall the name of the Dodgers CF/RF from 1940′s/1950′s that kept running through outfield fences: original 5 tool player. LT , Bruce or Dennis will recall hi name. Duke, Mays and Mantle in mid 50′s all 5 tool CF in NYC. Duke, of course, gets bonus points for calling Expo games: clear winner!

    Lol, that was fantastic! Agreed on all points.

    I will still maintain though that guys get referred to as 5 tool players for their age group/level, which is what I think the OP was getting at.

    Pitlick sure is an interesting case though. He’s been through 3 or 4 different leagues in as many seasons. I think there’s a reasonable chance of a step forward next year. If he turns into a player it woud be a perfect fit for this team.

  71. Traktor says:

    Theotherjohn:

    Pitlick has a very wide range of skills. Is that better for you?

    DSF:

    Harty is close to a keeper as well. The org doesn’t seem too high on him though..or at least Renney didn’t give a real opportunity.

  72. ashley says:

    Archie:
    Looks like its down to Edmonton and Vancouver for the Schultz sweepstakes

    It would quite remarkable if he chooses Edmonton, and would strictly be for professional reasons (developing cluster of talent, ice time), I assume, since every person I have ever known forced from lotusland for work seems to count down the days until they are able to return. Many are perfectly happy making less money and paying higher taxes, I might add.

    I’ve only visited various cities in BC, none for more than a couple of weeks, but it must be a great place to live.

    Fingers crossed for this one. Hopefully our luck continues.

  73. striatic says:

    “likes to visit”?

    “edmonton”?

    wtf!?

    he’s got to have some family connection here.

    either that or he really likes the mall.

  74. Traktor says:

    spoiler:
    I will still maintain though that guys get referred to as 5 tool players for their age group/level, which is what I think the OP was getting at.

    Yup. It doesn’t mean he is a generational talent, it means has the potential to do a lot of different things if he develops.

  75. Ribs says:

    spoiler: No, I think he refuses that all day every day.

    Jagr will sign somewhere Cup worthy in the East once Parisé’s status shakes out, is my guess. He’s not over here to cover his gambling debts.

    I dunno… I’ve followed Jagr for a long time and he always goes where the money and ice time is. He said that he’d like to play a bigger part on the team that he plays with next season. Do the Oilers have more ice time to give him than Philly did this past season? More PP time? The kids are coming up quick on those minutes right now.

  76. bendelson says:

    ashley,

    You are making a great deal of assumptions about life in BC. Great place to live – yes. Lower salaries – often yes. Higher taxes? Really? I don’t agree. Aside from that nasty PST my taxes spiked significantly here in Edmonton compared to Victoria. Property taxes doubled. Utilities more than doubled…

    And Alberta’s regressive ‘flat tax’ of 10%? Also not helpful to most folks (although J Schultz would benefit in this category).

    Just thought I would offer a different opinion from the usual ‘Alberta is cheap/BC is killer expensive’ fodder out there.

    And yes, I look forward to a return as well.

  77. ashley says:

    bendelson,

    Bendelson, you are absolutely correct. My mistake. Here it is from the horse’s mouth:

    BC: http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/bc.htm
    Alberta: http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/ab.htm

    BC has less tax on interest/other income, eligible divvy’s, and CG at an annual income below 85k. Above 85k, Alberta’s tax on all three sources of income is less. So for Schultz jr, he would benefit from Alberta over BC, but for the majority, that is not the case.

    BC’s income taxation is a little more progressive. More Robin Hoodish if you will. Thanks for correcting me.

  78. bendelson says:

    ashley,

    Yeah, I was surprised. One more comparison that shocked me was property values. You can buy a 1/2 hour from downtown Victoria for roughly the same cost as buying a1/2 hr from downtown Edm… (but BC’s land transfer taxes really sting).

    In the end, cost of living is very comparable – its just damn tough to land that great job on the island.

  79. FastOil says:

    Traktor: Trak

    I was on the trade Gagner side. He doesn’t play scrubs anymore, doesn’t bleed chances anymore, approaches 50% FO. I still think he is weak forechecking and can’t maintain possession well. I also don’t think he skates well enough for his size and style of game.

    That being said, who are these centres, easy to get to replace him? He is a “good” quality second C right now, young and is a quality guy. And the bigger issue is if you can’t find a “better” centre there is no one in the system and the two older guys are near the end of the plank, so to speak.

    Goalie, centres and top pairing D are the most important things to winning post season IMO. We are short on all. Why not just sign these easy to get guys and keep Gagner, and overpay for a UFA D when they start wanting to come for a chance at a Cup?

  80. PerryK says:

    Bar_Qu:
    I suspect Eager is one of those guys like Fraser or Brule or ______ who move on from here and surprise everyone by how well they do. Except they are doing exactly the same thing on a much better built team. I don’t actually have an issue with Eager other than the expectation that he will the make the Oilers better is totally unfounded. He will continue being the player he is and simply cannot be seen as the solution to a problem. An incomplete roster exposes this type of player’s weaknesses and prevents fans from getting behind the good things they do, because he can’t do enough of them to cover for rookies, over-played vets and incomplete defense.

    Bar_Qu,

    Can he at least not turn his back when a big goon from the opposition is hassling RNH?

    Ride shotgun indeed!

  81. Ryan says:

    LT, Hjalmarsson is scraping the barrel. That being said, it looks like we’re scraping the barrel.

    How many left handed shot, stay at home, bottom pairing dman does an org need?

    Is it ever hard to find good defenseman…

    Too bad we keep throwing good picks at Lucic lottery tickets.

  82. Bob Arctor says:

    bendelson,

    I split my time between BC and Alberta. Alberta is significantly cheaper. Vehicle insurance is roughly half the cost in Alberta and the already massive difference in gas prices is set to increase further. Schultz could buy a mansion in Edmonton for a million dollars or live in one of these for that same price…

  83. Ryan says:

    FastOil,

    Haha, that’s the one down side of drafting bpa with a GM like Tambo.

    We have four first line wingers: hall, Eberle, Hemsky, and Yakupov.

    One first line centre who shaves by putting whipping cream on his face and getting his cat to lick it off…

    After the first rounders and Petry, we have a whole lot of nothing….

    Defense: 2 2nd pairing stay at home left handed shot dmen: Shultz and smid. Some bottom pairing spare parts: peckham, one foot Whitney, sutton…

    Centre: 2 face off men who’re spent forces in Horcoff and Belanger. Gagner who is one dimensional and not exceptional at that one dimension.

    A third line that drowns even with Smyth and a forth line that bleeds.

    We have a developing goalie and a backup who’s already finished.

    At some point, ttambo will need to learn how to make a hockey trade. I’m not talking a blockbuster trade, but something to balance out need. That and find some useful spare parts the way Don Maloney does.

    given that it took him until today to decide on hiring Krueger as our coach, I’m not sure he has enough white matter left in his brain to make a decision that takes less than 2 months…

  84. bendelson says:

    <a href="
    Bob Arctor,

    Bob – Vancouver can be crazy expensive for housing – this we all know. AB property is also overvalued IMO.

    Victoria? I think people would be surprised.

    Insurance half the cost? Not my experience Bob – not at all.

    You can suggest things like gas are cheaper here in Edm and you are correct of course.
    If you’d like to talk about the costs of utilities you would be seriously off the mark.

    Like I said, my experiences suggest in the end the difference is far less than one might think.

    Perhaps you are making millions and taking advantage of the flat tax? Atta boy.
    Perhaps your politics support privitizing everything? Mine don’t (I’ll admit that).

    I don’t know Bob. Maybe it’s your experience but it’s not mine.

  85. Ducey says:

    bendelson,

    I don’t think JS is going to be living in Victoria.

    Hopefully when he meets Gillis’ he has a reaction like George Bailey had to Mr Potter when Potter tried to hire him in “Its a Wonderful Life”.

  86. Kris11 says:

    I suspect the kid is more concerned with quality of life, opportunity to excel to get big contracts as FA, and winning. Taxes and the cost of utilities and groceries, not so much. No?

    I guess no one has said otherrwise, but still.

  87. Marc says:

    striatic:
    no way.

    and if you send Gagner out, who is going to play C? Lander?

    this whole trade F for D dynamic makes no sense. the Oilers simply don’t have the free assets on offense, with the exception of Hemsky and that’s only if Yakupov quickly proves his worth.

    If Gagner is traded for D there are certainly second line centers available to replace him. Wellwood and Jokinen are UFA’s. Roy in Buffalo and Bozak and Connelly in Toronto are known to be available in trades.

    I prefer Gagner to most of those guys, but if he fetches a good top 4 D his 40-50pts each season can certainly be replaced.

  88. bendelson says:

    Ducey,

    Thanks Ducey. I thought the Canucks moved to Victoria.

  89. remember reijo says:

    Does anyone like the Wideman signing?
    Not quite sure what to think about it untill someone puts the trade in metaphor form.

  90. jb says:

    Hjalmarsson’s likely just another random name thrown out there by the media.. Think bigger imo.. I’d bet Katz/Lowe catches the great white whale out on the FA market still… It’s still about timing.. if not this year then next.. but Justin Scultz? and a big money D (which are obviously available) will go a loooong ways in making this a more competitive team next season.

  91. bendelson says:

    Kris11,

    Yes. He wouldn’t be talking to Canadian teams if it was all about taxes and groceries.

    I was simply responding to something Ashley said that I thought required some context/clarification about BC (not Vancouver).

    It actually had very little to do with where JS ends up playing and why.

    And I’m done with this thread… apologies to LT for moving the discussion into non hockey territory.

  92. Kris11 says:

    bendelson,

    Personally, I wouldn’t live in B.C. Too many mountains and the weather is too gentle. I prefer an icy, arctic plane where everything dies and remains dead 11 months out of the year. And who wants Vancouver’s art, restaurant, and music scene when you can haz Klondike Days!

  93. stevezie says:

    bendelson:
    Ducey,

    Thanks Ducey.I thought the Canucks moved to Victoria.

    Typical Bjendersson.

    As far as Hjalmarsson goes, is there a better way to sum up better than nothing but less than ideal? We want to make the playoffs this year, be we also want to win the cup. How long do we wait for a perfect solution? When do we say “screw it, let’s just take an imperfect step forward”?

    I’d say now. Let’s say we grab Hjalmarsson and sure enough, he’s not the one. We can always trade him next summer. As is often pointed out on here when we’re chasing one, defenceman always have value.

    So… what everyone else says, basically. I hope we do better but Hjalmarsson is a workable plan C. Or D, or whathaveyou.

  94. Ryan says:

    In the paper today, “for now Kruger won’t be hiring an associate coach.”

    Lol. Just lol.

    I can’t imagine why he’d be in a hurry to hire an associate coach…

  95. nathan says:

    Suspect Schultz will only meet with the team he signs with. The real pitch has been to his agents who have been briefing him in person the last two days.

  96. godot10 says:

    The Wideman contract has pushed what Carle and Garrison are going to get into outer space. Any UFA defensive signing is no longer a value contract.

    Hjalmarsson would represent a pretty good stop gap, 2 year @ $3.5 million to get to Klefbom and Marincin. With the cap costs contained.

    It would probably be something like Gagner for Hjalmarsson and something like McNeill. Gagner fits Chicago like a glove. Gagner and Kane would be soft minute assassins, and they have Toews, Bolland, and Kruger to handle the toughs.

    It would be pretty easy to find a veteran on the trade market with less than 2 years left on their contract to replace Gagner. (As others have mentioned, Derek Roy would be a good candidate.)

  97. russ99 says:

    Do the people pining for Gilbert remember Gilbert of two seasons ago?

    Yes, he did play better the first half of this season, but his cap hit went up too.

    We need a player better than Gilbert, a puck mover who contributes on the scoresheet and can play at least a medium-level defensive game.

    Gilbert was the first part, and not the second two parts.

    The Hawks wanted Hjalmarsson to be all three too, and he ended up on the third pairing. Not sure if we want to send a quality asset in Gagner for wishful thinking… Wouldn’t be as bad as repeating the same mistake the Hawks made with Cam Barker, but we should learn from other teams’ missteps.

  98. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Marc: If Gagner is traded for D there are certainly second line centers available to replace him.Wellwood and Jokinen are UFA’s. Roy in Buffalo and Bozak and Connelly in Toronto are known to be available in trades.

    I prefer Gagner to most of those guys, but if he fetches a good top 4 D his 40-50pts each season can certainly be replaced.

    Can we please get Wellwood just to watch DSF’s head explode as he goes from champion of the world to scrub in seconds.

  99. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    @everyone

    growing up in Victoria, the place is beautiful… but slow for a hockey star in his twenties looking to pull ass (i imagine). at any rate, he’d be in van… which IMO is much less beautiful and a pain in the ass to navigate.

    But I’d much rather live there than Edmonton. The appeal of the Pacific is pretty strong to people who grew up next to the ocean. But Edm. has things to offer. the uni is gorgeous (just there for a conference).

    But he’s from Kelowna. Nice town, big lake, skiing, lots of orchards, etc. his interest in Edm. and Cal. is probably related to that in some way.

    living in toronto now… it is awesome too. And, I’d imagine a lot of young canadian born kids would love to spend their twenties here. a lot to offer and lake ontario is nicer than you’d think.

    for pure city, I’d go: Van, Tor, Edm, Cal

    Who knows what to expect from a guy that likes nickelback. can’t trust him.

  100. HeavySig says:

    bendelson:
    <a href=”
    Bob Arctor,

    Bob – Vancouver can be crazy expensive for housing – this we all know.AB property is also overvalued IMO.

    Victoria?I think people would be surprised.

    Insurance half the cost?Not my experience Bob – not at all.

    You can suggest things like gas are cheaper here in Edm and you are correct of course.
    If you’d like to talk about the costs of utilities you would be seriously off the mark.

    Like I said, my experiences suggest in the end the difference is far less than one might think.

    Perhaps you are making millions and taking advantage of theflat tax?Atta boy.
    Perhaps your politics support privitizing everything?Mine don’t (I’ll admit that).

    I don’t know Bob.Maybe it’s your experience but it’s not mine.

    To be specific, we are talking mainly about a young man who is flush with cash, so cost of housing isn’t likely to be the biggest concern for the lad. What would any young professional want if given a choice of job offers? I think it would boil down to:

    - Location/lifestyle – I am Alberta born and love it here, but Van has to win that pretty easily

    or

    - Career objectives/advancement- Canucks may offer a better playoff prospect in the near future, but the Oilers should win this choice with their obvious need for an offensive defenseman to feed all the #1 kids. If he develops as projected, he can set himself up for a whopper of a UFA payday down the road.

    As for all that other money stuff:

    - Alberta property values are high, BC’s are the highest in Canada on average. http://www.livingin-canada.com/house-prices-canada.html

    - BC may be more “progressive” in terms of income tax, but PST certainly isn’t and it is always there. As for the ‘”rich” income of $85k, that is the average family income in Alberta, so the flat tax helps a good percentage of taxpayers. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil108a-eng.htm

    - Provincial auto insurance can be cheaper for some, but not as a rule across the board. They tend to penalize drivers in higher risk groups less than private insureres, so young men can definitely get a break in BC, Saskatchewan & Manitoba. For the rest of us that have good records and are over 25, there is no break. BC’s average rates are the highest in the country, Alberta is middle of the pack. http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/life/money/article/26321–ontario-drivers-pay-second-highest-car-insurance-rates-in-canada-study

    So if you are a young guy working a low paying job you may be better off in BC than in Alberta, as long as you can still live with your parents, because you aren’t buying a house anytime soon.

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