JUSTIN SCHULTZ

At the end of March, Bob McKenzie was talking about possible destinations for UFA to be Justin Schultz. He mentioned the Oilers. No big deal in and of itself, but something to consider. A good arrow.

Should Edmonton win the day and sign Schultz there will be much joy in our town, combined with a sense that we are the chosen ones, or smarter than the average bear, or something other worldly.

Fact is, it’ll be luck and timing and reasons that are personal and known only to the young man in question. The news worth repeating is that another member of the media has included Edmonton in the mix:

Leafs have his former tandem partner in Jake Gardiner, Vancouver has English Bay and a chance for Stanley. Edmonton? 25 minutes a night baby, and all the air you can suck in during your (brief) time on the bench.

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52 Responses to "JUSTIN SCHULTZ"

  1. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    Oh man, this is as tense as the #1 pick! Please, please, please .

    we need this guy bad!

    LT do the Oilers dare trade for the right’s

  2. Rondo says:

    LT,

    Where would Justin Schultz rank in this years draft?

  3. Lowetide says:

    I don’t think it would do any good. He’ll want to find out what all teams have to offer.

  4. Lowetide says:

    Rondo:
    LT,

    Where would Justin Schultz rank in this years draft?

    Lord, I don’t know. That’s for Pronman or someone like that. I’d guess he would go very high as he’s a plug and play.

  5. remember reijo says:

    What ever happened to the tampering rumour?…or was it only ever that?. Gotta figure the team who gets him already knows theyre getting him.

  6. fuzzy muppet says:

    Pronman said between 8 and 15 or something similar

  7. bookje says:

    Trading for his rights would allow us to fly him up in Katz jet, tour him around the room, play video games with RNH and Hall, and so on. It would also allow the oil to show him that he is really wanted here.

    Anaheim are probably hoping he signs on with them right after his rights expire. He would do this (as opposed to signing now) because he would then be a UFA at the end of that contract as opposed to an RFA (which would be the case if he signed now).

  8. MrSmitty says:

    Like someone said in the previous thread that I hope hes not a lifelong Nuck fan and holding out to sign with them. Only issue is would he even get ice time in Van? He would get 20 mins a night in Etown methinks.

  9. blackdog says:

    I’ll believe it when I see it but if the kid wants his icetime the Oilers are the obvious fit. If he’s good he’s going to get his icetime regardless although he’d have to be really good to go to the top of the Canucks’ depth chart.

    Pronman does comparisions all the time on Twitter, a couple of folks asked for his choice between Schultz and other guys who are pretty highly touted (of course I can’t remember lol) and he went with Schultz.

    Would be a coup.

  10. blackdog says:

    Haha, I take it all back. He ranks him slightly below both Ellis and Faulk, in both cases he says very close. So there you go fwiw.

    Also figures 2 out of Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat and Musil will be legit top four D in NHL.

  11. DSF says:

    MrSmitty:
    Like someone said in the previous thread that I hope hes not a lifelong Nuck fan and holding out to sign with them.Only issue is would he even get ice time in Van?He would get 20 mins a night in Etown methinks.

    He would likely replace Salo on the Canucks’ second pairing and get first unit PP time.

    Salo has a bomb from the point but he’s wildly inaccurate and one of the biggest strengths Shultz has is the ability to get his shot though from the point.

    The Canucks missed Ehrhoff’s shot on the PP last season.

  12. jake70 says:

    If he is UFA, can he sign one of those whopper contracts? If he can only sign some version of an ELC, then his 2nd contract may influence his choices. If the Oiler take Yakupov, and JS sees this young core as potentially going supernova (love that term LT), he may cash in on contract #2.

  13. neojanus says:

    You’d have to think that the offensive fire power building in Edmonton and the chance to play with not one but four potential superstars + playing 20-25 minutes a game right off the bat is a huge lure in a city on the cusp of a revolutionary building and a fanbase essentially rabid for hockey.

    This is going to come down to the sales pitch.

    Let the cup history and the billionaire in whom we trust light the way.

  14. Southern Oil says:

    DSF: He would likely replace Salo on the Canucks’ second pairing and get first unit PP time.

    Salo has a bomb from the point but he’s wildly inaccurate and one of the biggest strengths Shultz has is the ability to get his shot though from the point.

    The Canucks missed Ehrhoff’s shot on the PP last season.

    I’ve heard this argument from Canucks fans as well. They could be right of course. But I believe Gillis to be an above average GM. I guess I would be surprised if he thought the answer to his lack of depth on the blue line was to sign some kid that has never stepped on an NHL ice surface before. I think at the end of the summer, competition for ice time is going to be much more intense in Vancouver & Toronto for Schultz. Here I think he has a better chance at a lot more prime ice time. Also I don’t think our PP should be overlooked here. If he can get some ice time on the PP that might further the argument for joining the Oil.

  15. DSF says:

    Southern Oil: I’ve heard this argument from Canucks fans as well.They could be right of course.But I believe Gillis to be an above average GM.I guess I would be surprised if he thought the answer to his lack of depth on the blue line was to sign some kid that has never stepped on an NHL ice surface before.I think at the end of the summer, competition for ice time is going to be much more intense in Vancouver & Toronto for Schultz.Here I think he has a better chance at a lot more prime ice time.Also I don’t think our PP should be overlooked here.If he can get some ice time on the PP that might further the argument for joining the Oil.

    I doubt he would do much better with the Oilers in terms of ice time.

    Unless the team is prepared to hand him top pairing minutes and bump Petry down to second pairing, I expect he would be on the second pairing in Edmonton as well.

    In either case, he would likely get first unit PP time since Vancouver is missing that element on the PP.

    Considering the Canucks are a much higher scoring team than the Oilers, (249GF vs. 212GF), he would be muck more likely to pad his stats in Vancouver, if that is what he desires.

    Worth noting that Alex Edler scored 49 points last season while the Oilers top scoring defenseman was Jeff Petry with 25.

    Also worth noting that Ehrhoff’s point total dropped from 50 with Vancouver to 32 with Buffalo.

    While the Oilers and Canucks are fairly close in PP scoring, the Canucks are far superior in ES scoring.

    I think it will really depend, as you say, on what Gillis’ intentions might be and if he is willing to hand a rookie the #4 job alongside Edler on the second pairing.

    He might.

  16. Southern Oil says:

    DSF: I doubt he would do much better with the Oilers in terms of ice time.

    Unless the team is prepared to hand him top pairing minutes and bump Petry down to second pairing, I expect he would be on the second pairing in Edmonton as well.

    In either case, he would likely get first unit PP time since Vancouver is missing that element on the PP.

    Considering the Canucks are a much higher scoring team than the Oilers, (249GF vs. 212GF), he would be muck more likely to pad his stats in Vancouver, if that is what he desires.

    Worth noting that Alex Edler scored 49 points last season while the Oilers top scoring defenseman was Jeff Petry with25.

    Also worth noting that Ehrhoff’s point total dropped from 50 with Vancouver to 32 with Buffalo.

    While the Oilers and Canucks are fairly close in PP scoring, the Canucks are far superior in ES scoring.

    I think it will really depend, as you say, on what Gillis’ intentions might be and if he is willing to hand a rookie the #4 job alongside Edler on the second pairing.

    He might.

    I guess I would be surprised to see Gillis add Shultz and no one else throughout the summer. I think you will a much more veteran presence fill the #3-4 spot. Of course they will still make a play for him. That much we know. But I would think if he comes in and plays well in the NHL, he has a much better chance at getting ice time on this team – given our struggles on the back end and the fact that we are rebuilding.

  17. Lowetide says:

    I don’t know if this has been posted anywhere, but the official draft order for the Oilers:

    1.
    32.
    63.
    91.
    93.
    123.
    153.

    Oilers don’t have a pick after the 2nd pick of rd 6. I wonder if they add a pick in the 7th rd.

  18. Smarmy says:

    Take the easy second assists on Hoppy’s setups to Yak, Hall, and Ebs the best young players in the world.

  19. Maverick says:

    Lowetide: Lord, I don’t know. That’s for Pronman or someone like that. I’d guess he would go very high as he’s a plug and play.

    1. If by some dumb luck the Oilers indeed get the opportunity to sign Justin Schultz before the entry draft by trading for his rights, they would have a young 21/22 year old offensive defenseman to play top 4 minutes, great! That’s a big check mark on the depth chart. One more missing piece checked off of Tambellini’s list.

    2. The next item would be a bigger 2nd line Centre? Galchenyuk? Grigorenko? Draft one of them and that is another check mark off of Tambellini’s list.

    3. Back up goalie who doesn’t leak goals and scoring changes and to help Dubnyk through the tough times? hmm… With the trading of Lindback and the cost associated not sure what is available to check this off of Tambellini’s list.

    So, if by luck the Oilers trade before the draft for Justin Schultz’s rights and Schultz gives them a good indication that he will sign with Edmonton, does that change the optics of not drafting Yakupov? But instead picking a Centre to fill a need? Would the public accept the notion that now a young top 4 defenseman is in the fold and now they draft by need and draft a young bigger 2nd line Centre?

  20. Cactus says:

    Maverick,

    Why do you assume we need a bigger 2nd line centre? I don’t see any compelling reason why Gagner can’t fit that role, especially if he can take another step forward offensively.

    And just so you know this isn’t some wacky bias towards Gagner, check out this work from Jonathan Willis:

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/4/20/size-up-the-middle-can-nugent-hopkins-gagner-co-exist

    He concluded that the teams that are making the SC finals are NOT doing so on the backs of giant centres, for the most part.

    Gagner is a solid #2 centre. He’s still really young and fits in nicely with the core of this team.

  21. Archie says:

    Cactus:
    Maverick,

    Why do you assume we need a bigger 2nd line centre?I don’t see any compelling reason why Gagner can’t fit that role, especially if he can take another step forward offensively.

    And just so you know this isn’t some wacky bias towards Gagner, check out this work from Jonathan Willis:

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/4/20/size-up-the-middle-can-nugent-hopkins-gagner-co-exist

    He concluded that the teams that are making the SC finals are NOT doing so on the backs of giant centres, for the most part.

    Gagner is a solid #2 centre.He’s still really young and fits in nicely with the core of this team.

    The biggest problem the Oilers have right now is size in their top 6 and if they are going to compete with likes of the Canucks, and the Kings, they’re going have to get bigger.

  22. Maverick says:

    Cactus:
    Maverick,

    Why do you assume we need a bigger 2nd line centre?I don’t see any compelling reason why Gagner can’t fit that role, especially if he can take another step forward offensively.

    And just so you know this isn’t some wacky bias towards Gagner, check out this work from Jonathan Willis:

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/4/20/size-up-the-middle-can-nugent-hopkins-gagner-co-exist

    He concluded that the teams that are making the SC finals are NOT doing so on the backs of giant centres, for the most part.

    Gagner is a solid #2 centre.He’s still really young and fits in nicely with the core of this team.

    Gagner is a good young player who might fit in with the core of kids but does he fit on this team? Gagner is a small centre playing with small wingers, he isn’t overly “thick” body structure, is a average to maybe above average skater, can’t win faceoffs regularly, but has a ton of heart and try with very good hockey sense. He is 2 years away from UFA status, and is a RFA this summer, are you willing to tie up $4 million or more a year for 4 years on Gagner? That is the recent going rate for a player of Gagner’s skills.

    I think he is expendable on this team and a better option is needed for this team to move forward. I do like Gagner as a player just not sure he is the best fit for this team. The Oilers are in desperate need of size in their Top 6.

  23. Traktor says:

    Maverick: are you willing to tie up $4 million or more a year for 4 years on Gagner?

    No.

  24. bookje says:

    Make no mistake, Schultz will not sign with anybody before July 1st, even if the Oilers trade for him, he will not sign. He may informally agree to sign with the Oilers after that date (or any other team), but as I read the CBA, if he signs, he gives up his potential UFA status and faces a number of years of RFA.

    If he waits until July 1st, he will always be a UFA whenever he is not under contract.

    Schultz will not sign anything prior to July 1st.

  25. Traktor says:

    A bit OT but it is draft week..

    nhlmockdraft.org is giving away a free NHL draft guide.

    Full scouting reports on all 210 ranked players.

    Thought I would just pass that along for the draft junkies

  26. DSF says:

    Cactus:
    Maverick,

    Why do you assume we need a bigger 2nd line centre?I don’t see any compelling reason why Gagner can’t fit that role, especially if he can take another step forward offensively.

    And just so you know this isn’t some wacky bias towards Gagner, check out this work from Jonathan Willis:

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/4/20/size-up-the-middle-can-nugent-hopkins-gagner-co-exist

    He concluded that the teams that are making the SC finals are NOT doing so on the backs of giant centres, for the most part.

    Gagner is a solid #2 centre.He’s still really young and fits in nicely with the core of this team.

    Here is why:

    LAK
    Kopitar 6’3″ 225
    Carter 6’4″ 200
    Stoll 6’1″ 215

    VCR
    Sedin 6’2″ 190
    Kesler 6’2″ 205
    Lapierre 6’2″ 210
    Malhotra 6’2″ 220

    SJS
    Thornton 6’4″ 240
    Couture 6’1″ 195
    Handzus 6’5″ 215

    CHI
    Toews 6’2″ 210
    Sharp 6’1″ 200

    STL
    Backes 6’3″ 225
    Berglund 6’4″ 220

    ANA
    Getzlaf 6’4″ 220
    Bonino 6’1″ 190
    Holland 6’4″ 220

    NSH
    Legwand 6’2″ 205
    Fisher 6’1″ 210
    Gaustad 6’5″ 210
    Wilson 6’2″ 210

    PHX
    Vermette 6’1″ 200
    Hanzal 6’6″ 235
    Chipchira 6’3″ 205

    The only good team in the WC that has small centres is Detroit but they also have:

    Franzen 6’3″ 225
    Bertuzzi 6’3″ 230
    Abdlekader 6’2″ 220

    Unless the Oilers bulk up, they’re going to get pushed around.

  27. Maverick says:

    I say no thank you for Gagner at $4m per year.

  28. commonfan14 says:

    Maverick: are you willing to tie up $4 million or more a year for 4 years on Gagner? That is the recent going rate for a player of Gagner’s skills.

    Draft time is funny. It doesn’t make a lot of sense that a guy who’s likely to get a contract like that based on his performance, who was drafted 6th overall and has the second most points of anyone from his class, wouldn’t be seen as worth the 5th overall pick in this draft straight up.

    It also doesn’t make a lot of sense that it’s a trade I’d like the Oilers to make if it was available.

    On Schultz, should we really have no concerns about him coming in and corrupting the kids after he’s screwed over the team that drafted him so badly? Would we sign Radulov just as eagerly if he wanted to come here?

    He’s a little sketchy, isn’t he?

  29. Smarmy says:

    Oh god I just watched Game 7 in 97. Two dead read stops on Modano and that Nieuwendyk save still drops the jaw.

  30. Lowetide says:

    It might be the best save ever. Did you see the look on Nieuwndyk’s face? lol.

  31. Woodguy says:

    He may informally agree to sign with the Oilers after that date (or any other team), but as I read the CBA, if he signs, he gives up his potential UFA status and faces a number of years of RFA.

    If he waits until July 1st, he will always be a UFA whenever he is not under contract.

    Schultz will not sign anything prior to July 1st.

    I don’t you are entirely correct here.

    Because of his age, he will sign a 2 year ELC. The length of ELC is determined by age, nothing else.

    If he would have signed his 2 year ELC with ANA in the spring, he could burned a year at the 10 game mark and would only have 1 year left on his ELC.

    Going the way he is going (not ANA) he is actually adding a year to his ELC compared to what he could have had with ANA.

    From the CBA. Section 9.1.b

    First SPC Signing Age
    Period Covered by First SPC
    and Years in the Entry Level System
    and Subject to Compensation Limits
    18-21 3 years
    22-23 2 years
    24 1 year
    25 and older No required number of years, not in the Entry Level
    System and not subject to limits on compensation

    He is then subject to the normal number of RFA years for a player of his age/games played.

    He will have RFA status after his ELC is up.

    He won’t see UFA again until 28 or so.

  32. Woodguy says:

    commonfan14,

    On Schultz, should we really have no concerns about him coming in and corrupting the kids after he’s screwed over the team that drafted him so badly? Would we sign Radulov just as eagerly if he wanted to come here?

    He’s a little sketchy, isn’t he?

    Comparing Shultz to Radulov is a big stretch.

    Radulov signed a contract, then didn’t fulfill it. That’s shitty.

    Shultz never signed anything. He is doing what he sees is best for him within the framework of the CBA (such as it is).

    No one is forced to play for the team that drafted them.

    Stoll refused to sign with Calgary. He went back in the draft and the Oilers took him.

    Shultz is exploiting a loophole about being forced back in the draft that players who play 4 years in college can apparently exploit.

    If you wanted a team of players who didn’t want the best for themselves, you’d have no one on it.

  33. spoiler says:

    Pronman has lovely descriptions, absolutely wonderful, but ranking is a completely different story.

  34. Lowetide says:

    spOILer: speaking of rankings, are you doing a top 30 this year?

  35. commonfan14 says:

    Woodguy,

    True, the act isn’t as dirty as what Radulov did, but I bet Ducks fans feel no less burned than Preds fans do. I’m pretty sure we’d have all had a healthy hate on for Klefbom forevermore if he’d pulled something similar instead of signing and we’d ended up losing him for nothing.

    Pronger was doing what he felt was best for him when he publicly demanded a trade. That didn’t violate the CBA either, but it killed the team all the same.

    And don’t get me wrong – I’ll certainly welcome the guy if he wants to sign here (leaving me with very little point), but I’ll probably always be wondering when the other shoe might drop.

  36. Ribs says:

    I approve of the idea of getting this Schultz character. I just really have no idea who he is.

    If he was drafted by the Oilers and was inserted into the NHL lineup this upcoming season, what/who can we compare that to? I’m just having a hard time figuring what the reasonable expectations would be for him. The hype is sort of confusing and I feel like a lot of it stems from the unique situation he’s in. What’s warranted and what’s not?

  37. Ribs says:

    Fussy with some new bits tonight….

    Oilers impressed by @TsnMarcCrawford A P G

    #Canucks have contacted the Oilers to see if they have interest in Luongo, @strombone1 is willing to come to Edm APG

    Crawford doesn’t seem like a good fit to me. His effort level is there, but so was Renney’s.

  38. PaperDesigner says:

    All right, that’s it. I’ve officially snapped. I’ve finally heard the “the Oilers need more size at centre or they can’t win” one too many times.

    I am literally shaking with rage, not because it’s a particularly dumb argument, it’s only kind of dumb, but because I’ve heard it DOZENS of times and nobody has stopped to consider the fatal flaws in it. It’s literally on the level of “the Oilers need an enforcer”, in that you can bring up some arguments in favour (the pyschological factor! ), but they’re not really strong enough to sustain it.

    Bottom line: It’s an idiotic argument for multiple reasons, and if you have any respect for logic or just the human decency of how annoying it is to repeatedly hear people use the same bad argument, please stop.

    First of all, the average size of an NHL player is about 6’1″. When you’re talking about big centres, a lot of the examples are often only somewhat above average centres. This is an important point when you consider that many of the examples of “big” centres are actually just examples of being slightly to the right of the bell curve. This is important because it means that there are going to be more examples if people consider a couple of 6’2″ centres to be a good example, rather than a 6’3″ and a 6’4″ being the minimum.

    Second, correlation does not equal causation. It’s like saying that every NHL team wins because they all have at least one Canadian. The only problem is that since Canadians are the majority of players, it’s practically impossible to build a roster without them. You could, theoretically, if you had magic access to every non-Canadian hockey player with no limitations, build a championship team with no Canadians (in fact, if you could pick all the best non-Canadians, you’d have a Stanley Cup favourite) Hockey is a game that favours size. You’re going to tend to have more players that are bigger because hockey itself favours this trait. Furthermore, all things being equal, a player with exactly the same shot, mental game, skating, skill, defensive awareness, etc., but more size, will be better. What does this mean? Better players tend to be bigger. This applies to all areas. A player with a better shot tends to be better than one that doesn’t. A player with good hockey sense is better than one without.

    BUT NOT ALL PLAYERS ARE GOOD FOR THE SAME REASONS. The best player in the history of the game was not particularly big (Gretzky). The difference? Gretzky had enough other tools to make up for it. Because in the end, while bigger players have an advantage, they may have disadvantages in other areas.

    Lest we forget, there are only two skills that matter in hockey, ultimately; keeping pucks out of your net and putting them into the net of your opponent. That’s it.

    You can use size to help you. Physically forcing your body on another player to win a puck is a valid way to play the game. And using your size and strength to push past defenders to get to the net is a good way of playing the game. But who’s more valuable? The player who scores 20 goals and 30 assists doing it that way, or the player who scores 20 goals and 30 assists who is 5’10″, does it with quickness and smarts? The answer is… whoever has the lower cap hit, all other things being equal.

    The thing people forget is that both the big player and the small player face the exact same challenge; they both have to face the 6’3″, 215 pound defenceman who knows how to play the game and come up with the puck more often than not. Who would you rather have against this guy, the 6’4″ winger who crashes and bangs and is known for playing with reckless abandon? Or the 5’10″ centre who plays more of a cerebral game? The 6’4″ winger, of course! Until I tell you the former is JF Jacques, and the 5’10″ centre is Gagner. Gagner is a good player because he routinely plays against much bigger players and finds ways to do okay. Does he get “pushed around”? He probably has other players leverage their weight and shove him into the boards. You know who else would get “pushed around” in the same way? Datsyuk, Eberle, Giroux, St. Louis, Kane. They have also been the top 25 in scoring in the past few years at different times. The difference between them and skilled forwards that flame out of the league? It’s not that they don’t get pushed, it’s that they know how to deal with the pushing. In other words, THEY’RE GOOD PLAYERS.

    ‘Cause here’s the problem–this kind of thinking turns you into Pat Quinn, and suddenly, you have Jacques on your top line, Gagner on your fourth, and before too long you’re clueless as to why your team is inspiring hind banana metaphors.

    The counter is a bunch of stereotypes about smaller players: they wear down, they can’t provide toughness, etc.. The thing about wearing down, is that even if that’s true in general, that doesn’t change the fact that you have to evaluate the individual player. Gretzky was certainly more durable than Lindros, and yet, when Gretzky was getting into his thirties and Lindros was entering his prime, and arguably the best player in the NHL, you might have wanted Lindros for the playoff run except… he had this tendency to get concussed. He was less durable than Gretzky despite being a comparable player for a few years (note I’m saying they were comparable for a few years in the mid-nineties, not overall), and being much bigger. Always, always important to look at specific instances. And as for providing toughness, that only matters if toughness results in helping get the puck out of your net and into the other one. IT IS ONE WAY OF PLAYING THE GAME, BUT NOT THE ONLY.

    Would I rather have a Getzlaf or a Toews or an Eric Staal than Gagner as one of my centres? Absolutely, but it doesn’t have to do with their height or weight directly. They’re all better players than Gagner, and yes, part of their respective games has to do with their size. But ultimately, the things you use size for can be made up with other attributes. Is Gagner good enough to be the second line centre for a championship team? Is Nugent-Hopkins good enough to be a first line centre? I think yes and yes. If you wish to dispute either of these, you’re welcome to. We can have an interesting discussion on how good Gagner is, what we can expect of him, whether Nugent-Hopkins is an elite talent, and so on. These discussions would predicate on assessing talent, overall play, and the finicky but intriguing art of projection. You know why this matters? Because the Oilers have been losing on account of having too few good players (guys who keep pucks out of their end and in the other end) and too many bad players (guys who keep pucks in their end and out of the other end). That’s it.

    But please, don’t come with patronizing nonsense about how a player has to be big. A player has to be good. A player has to be able to survive in a physical league. A player has to be able to defend and get the puck moving in the right direction. Frankly, if you start giving out style points for doing it with a big hit with a big body, you’ve left the realm of judging hockey and have become a figure skating judge.

  39. justDOit says:

    I understand that players who are eligible to re-enter the draft hold more promise as a prospect than other players, but this still doesn’t seem like a slam-dunk to me. Omark and Brunstrum are kind of comparable to J Schultz, in that they came to the NHL riding a wave of support from another league. But both of them actually played pro hockey before jumping the pond, and yet they still couldn’t carve out a living in the best league in the world.

    Then we complicate things when considering Schultz is a defenseman. Defenseman who come from European pro leagues are not expected to earn a spot on an NHL team in their first year over here (Larsson, Hedman), yet Schultz is expected to play top 4 minutes straight out of US college. I’m not trying to dump on Schultz – I’m just trying to understand the hype.

  40. Ribs says:

    More Fussy…

    Habs have offered Raphael Diaz and Rene Bourque to the Oilers for Sam Gagner, Alex Plante and 2nd as per Garfield

  41. hunter1909 says:

    PaperDesigner,

    Obviously size isn’t the be all and end all, otherwise seventeen year old C cup Bridget Bardot loses out to D cup Rene Zelwegger every time.

    I love how my brain processes this shit in the middle of the night.

  42. Lowetide says:

    Paper Designer is correct. That is all.

  43. Woodguy says:

    Everyone is all hyped over Shultz because of how good gardiner played for tor last year.

    gardiner stepped into the nhl out of college and did well in a 2nd pairing situation.

    Shultz and Gardiner played together in college and Shultz is considered a better prospect.

    He is also RH, and RH pucking moving D are gold (unless you are v4.0, then you trade Gilbert….I still don’t get it)

  44. franksterra says:

    Lowetide,

    Well it’s all about blends and balance. Get the right blend and balance and Sam could be easily be a great ingredient. I will say that having Sam as the #2 C going forward (on what we all hope to be a very competitive team soon) presents certain challenges to striking the right blend and balance. It’s also true that we’re not currently bursting with roster options to address these challenges. In short, betting on Sam long term means you have strong faith that what he provides and will provide over the next 5+ years more than covers the cost of the challenges he also presents to the proper blend and balance of a highly competitive team.

  45. Ducey says:

    Ribs:
    More Fussy…

    Habs have offered Raphael Diaz and Rene Bourque to the Oilers for Sam Gagner, Alex Plante and 2nd as per Garfield

    That is really hard to believe. Its so one sided in MTL’s favour that either MTL’s new regime are idiots or someone is making stuff up. If that was the offer it would have to involve MTL’s 1st rounder.

  46. Lowetide says:

    franksterra:
    Lowetide,

    Well it’s all about blends and balance.Get the right blend and balance and Sam could be easily be a great ingredient.I will say that having Sam as the #2 C going forward (on what we all hope to be a very competitive team soon) presents certain challenges to striking the right blend and balance.It’s also true that we’re not currently bursting with roster options to address these challenges.In short, betting on Sam long term means you have strong faith that what he provides and will provide over the next 5+ years more than covers the cost of the challenges he also presents to the proper blend and balance of a highly competitive team.

    The best argument against Gagner is that poor stretch at the end of the season after the hot streak. Gagner’s contract could get him traded, but size isn’t a good argument against imo. Actual NHL players trump big guys in skates every time.

  47. franksterra says:

    Lowetide,

    LT, completely agreed that NHL players trump big guys on skates every time. it seems to me though that there’s no contradiction in defending Gagner as a valuable player and correctly noting that as a whole the Oilers need a more physical, grouchy and defensively effective roster without sacrificing offensive skill. Keeping Sam means you take a valuable roster spot (#2 C) and find ways to add those attributes around it. I hope it can be done soon.

  48. spoiler says:

    Lowetide:
    spOILer: speaking of rankings, are you doing a top 30 this year?

    I’ve been trying to talk myself into it but don’t feel like I saw enough of the top 20. If they weren’t hurt, they were playing in the Hinterlands. The only time I got to see Murray play was WJC and WHC. Rielly I haven’t seen at all other than highlights. Dumba and Reinhart I caught a ton of. And I’m okay on the Eastern forwards. The Euros, I saw about the same as always.

    It’s those two defenseman that worry me because I think I’d rank one or the other 2nd but don’t have the viewings to really justify it.

  49. mustang says:

    PaperDesigner,

    Good post

  50. Ribs says:

    Thanks, WG. That does clear it up a little bit. It sounds like he could be a bit similar to Petry, then. Interesting.

    Ducey: That is really hard to believe. Its so one sided in MTL’s favour that either MTL’s new regime are idiots or someone is making stuff up.If that was the offer it would have to involve MTL’s 1st rounder.

    I don’t have a hard time believing that some teams throw offers out there just to see if something sticks. You never know if you don’t try. I’m sure word gets around and other deals are made because of it. I would think that it’s probably more likely to happen with a new GM, too.

    Fussy’s stuff is usually vague enough that it’s plausible.

  51. DSF says:

    Lowetide: The best argument against Gagner is that poor stretch at the end of the season after the hot streak. Gagner’s contract could get him traded, but size isn’t a good argument against imo. Actual NHL players trump big guys in skates every time.

    But they don’t trump bigger Actual NHL players.

  52. eberlealltheway says:

    I read somewhere that Schultz said if any team trades for his rights he will refuse to negotiate.

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