SUMMER 2012: TOP 20 PROSPECTS

The Edmonton Oilers were gifted with yet another #1 overall selection in this year’s draft. If they arrive there again in 2013 I expect a palace coup.

I love this picture. Ludvig Von Katz about to favor us with a piece on the piano and Superman dons the cape. Please Baby Jesus let these two empire builders win Stanley.

  1. R Nail Yakupov. You know, he might end up being the best of the bunch. MacGregor said the clincher was he never missed in close–he is one of those snipers touched by God. This is a wonderful addition to an already outstanding list of skill forwards that begins with Ales Hemsky and ends with the Nuge. I think this will be an excellent landing place for Nail Yakupov.
  2. D Oscar Klefbom. Young defender recently signed his pro contract had a strong WJ’s. His SEL play makes it difficult to know what we’re dealing with (complete D versus stay at home) but his WJ numbers (6, 1-1-2 +8) and play suggest he has a nice range of skills. The Oilers (I think rightly) plan to have him play in Sweden this winter and get a lot of experience in the men’s SEL league. It’s possible Klefbom comes right to the NHL at age 20. There were scouts who suggested to Dustin Nielson leading up to the draft that Klefbom>Ryan Murray. Encouraging.
  3. D Martin Marincin: Finished off his amateur career with another nice WHL season and Jim Byers told me they were impressed in OKC (6, 0-1-1 +4) when he got into action at the end of the year. 6, 1-2-3 +2 at the World Juniors for Slovakia and has a nice range of skills. 6.05, 200 now and I’m not certain if he progressed final year of junior. I do know he’s covered his draft bet, and Riley Nash is a distant bell. Marincin developing into an NHL player would be a major win for the scouts. If he could do it in a quick hurry it would make things a whole lot better. Best not to count on it.
  4. D Martin Gernat: Went 60, 9-46-55 +41 with the Oil Kings and played well in the WJ’s too. Gernat is such an interesting prospect, he could end up passing a few more players on this list before turning pro. Selected 122nd overall at last summer’s draft. Not to go all “saw him good” on you, but later in the season it seemed to me Gernat had added a physical element to his skating gifts. I don’t really know where he belongs on this list, but it could be higher.
  5. L Teemu Hartikainen: Slow starts have hurt him but each spring Hartikainen emerges with a good performance and enters the conversation for next year. He’s 29 games into his NHL career (5-5-10) and looks like he might be a 30-point winger based on his early resume. Good size, I think he has an exceptional chance this fall to make the big club. In fact, of all the kids in the AHL (including Pitlick and Hamilton) I think Hartikainen has the best future.
  6. C Anton Lander: Oilers made a mistake in keeping him up (56, 2-4-6) in Edmonton and he didn’t exactly deliver prime offense in OKC. Lander had a solid offensive season at 19 in the SEL and a year in OKC should get him back on track. He remains an organizational favorite based on leadership and his reputation as a defensive C remains (although it was not in evidence in the NHL). Even if you’re a great defensive player, you have to score a little. Lander isn’t the modern Bill Lesuk, but you might be able to see him from there.
  7. R Tobias Rieder: Wow, what a season. Started 52, 35-34-69 and then went super nova (24, 20-22-42 including playoffs) to end the season. Billy Moores says he works hard and doesn’t give up anything defensively, and also felt his game was “getting complete.” That’s a lot of good news on one player.
  8. G Tyler Bunz: Finished 2nd in the WHL in save percentage (.921) and is tracking equal/ahead of Dubnyk at the same age. Concussions a concern and he is likely to start in the ECHL but he looks on track entering pro. You never know with goalies, but there are things to like.
  9. L Daniil Zharkov: Pronman: Zharkov had a pretty impressive first OHL season despite somewhat underwhelming counting numbers. He’s a good skater who hits a desirable top speed, with good first step quickness, showing very good agility and ability to evade defenders. That last part is also due to his puck skills, which are plus, as he can really dangle and has a lot of individual ability. His goal to assist ratio may give the indication of a poor passer or a puck hog, and while he’ll occasionally look like the latter, he does show many instances of being a fine puck distributor. Zharkov is much better, though, at making moves and getting into shooting position where he displays high-end finishing ability. He shows a fine physical game, as while he still needs to put on strength, he has a projectable frame and will work hard on the forecheck and when he has to battle along the boards. Zharkov doesn’t show that same effort in the other end, and will have to address his defensive game significantly going forward.
  10. R Tyler Pitlick: Started 42, 5-8-13 in OKC and then found the range a little and finished 33, 4-13-17 (including playoffs). He received solid reviews in conversations with both Todd Nelson and Jim Byers during the season and I think he’ll blossom next season in the AHL.
  11. G Olivier Roy: Clearly overqualified for the ECHL based on his stats, Roy remains a solid prospect and could get a chance to be an OKC starter before the more highly rated (by me, anyway) Bunz. Roy has a chance to become prominent next season, as the organization stubbornly holds on to Khabibulin as an NHL option. Roy could end up being the OKC starter in 12-13.
  12. D David Musil: Showed us what he is with quality defensive play at the WJ’s. Smart, savvy defenseman and he’s not yet 20. Lost his season to injury but has a nice future. I have him below the others because I don’t think he’ll be much offensively. Musil as a defender could be better than any of the young men ranked above him.
  13. D Dillon Simpson: Young man’s draft day scouting reports were all over the place but he’s settled in as a solid 2-way defender at a big time NCAA school, age 18. I think this guy might come quickly once he turns pro. I could be badly underrating him here.
  14. L Jujhar Khaira: Redline: this kid is big, mean, aggressive, nasty, and guess what… he can score too. Does the dirty work in the corners, bangs bodies and wins battles, and loves to initiate heavy contact. Powerful stride with great balance and gets leverage on his hits. Has surprisingly soft hands and puck skills with playmaking ability. Creates lots of space for smaller teammates and makes everyone braver. Very raw defensively.
  15. D Colten Teubert: A tough, physical defender, he can play effectively in the AHL but clearly has some way to go (as seen in his NHL play). Another season in Okla City is likely, but we shouldn’t forget about this guy. Coach Nelson mentioned a few times how much they missed his presence after he was lost to injury.
  16. D Brandon Davidson: I think he might spend some time in the ECHL. A wonderful story, I’ll cheer like hell for him and he ended his amateur career in style. Davidson turns 21 in August, it’ll be interesting to see where he lands first year pro and what role he plays.
  17. L Phil Cornet: Took some time to find the range in pro hockey (we need time on ice to properly follow progress) he scored 24 goals in the minors and played 2 NHL games. A season to remember for Cornet, there’s every chance
  18. D Joey Laleggia: Pronman: he’s a good skater with a great offensive mind who would be a nice shot in the dark pick in the mid-rounds due to his notable offensive upside. He flashes high-end hockey sense with his quick game processing and he’s really effective moving the puck out of his own end and controlling the blue line on the power play. Laleggia has solid puck skills as well, at times showing above average, but he is a much better passer than he is an individual creator. He skates well, moving fluidly in all four directions. His main weakness is his physical game, which is below replacement level. I’ve seen him listed at 5’10″, which is generous in my opinion as he looks pretty small on the ice, and he is not effective at all when he’s engaging. Despite his hockey smarts, I don’t see him as being effective defensively to any notable degree at the pro level.
  19. L Curtis Hamilton: A disappointing season and then an injury has Hamilton falling down the depth chart. He was the 48th pick in 2010 and finished up junior in fine fashion. That step to pro hockey was perhaps hindered by his age (he played 17 AHL games before his 20th birthday) but he’ll badly need to show progress in 12-13.
  20. L Mitch Moroz: Redline Report: Big, edgy power forward plays an in-your-face style and looks to initiate hard contact all over the ice. A feared enforcer who picked up 20 fighting majors, yet skates and handles the puck well enough to take regular shifts. Coaches eventually rotated him into the top six to give scoring lines a boost – gives smaller, skilled linemates more room to work with his physicality. Has surprising offensive tools with a heavy snap shot. Puckhandling confidence is soaring and he’s willing to try things with the puck now he wouldn’t have dreamed of six months ago. Skating enables him to play in open ice and even has decent lateral agility. Spins off checks to find space and gets to open ice. Emerging force uses great size/strength to dominate below the circles and is impossible to move around crease. Development curve is heading straight up and has upside.

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230 Responses to "SUMMER 2012: TOP 20 PROSPECTS"

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  1. Doug McLachlan says:

    It is a great crop of kids. Now it is Tambo’s chance to convince us he can fill out the remaining pieces of a playoff-contending team.

    Get a coach. I think Cooper > Kruger > Sutter but let’s get that process done.

    Push as hard as possible to sign J.Schultz. I won’t hold it against him if we come up short – in the end it’s where he wants to go.

    Then by cheque book or trade get the rest of a team.

    Get real NHL defenseman to fill out roster.

    Get real NHL compliments to plug Into the bottom six (including Smyth).

    Get a real NHL goaltender to back up DD. Khabibulin needs to return to Russia by way of OKC. I will buy a Yakupov jersey from the Oiler’s store to celebrate. Katz, you can afford the demotion cost.

  2. bookje says:

    Plante is off the list, I guess the dream is over…

    Lots of new faces in the list – that’s exciting.

    The PP is going to be lots of fun this year with the talent up front.

    Katz suit may not make him look sharp, but it probably cost more than my car.

    Miss TreenasOil is no longer relevant.

    The MSM knows nothing.

    Ralph Kruger is going to be the next coach of the Oilers (according to the MSM and TreenasOil )

  3. spoiler says:

    Pretty much agree with everything up there. I’d probably have Pitlick ahead of Zharkov and Moroz at 16 or 17, and Teubert ahead of the other defensive defenders just because he is.

    I am surprised to see the list this morning since we could be adding another big name next weekend.

    Weaknesses of the list to my eye are offensive defensemen and Centres.

  4. spoiler says:

    You know:

    If Yak makes the team…
    If the rumblings of Harski getting an NHL role are true…
    And if the Oilers re-sign Smytty…

    We have too many wingers.

    I am not convinced right now they will re-sign Smyth. Other than 94, I doubt any extra NHL depth will be obtained at that position.

    Unless there’s a big ass trade coming.

  5. Lowetide says:

    spOILer: One of the things I believe we’ll find out as time goes on this summer is that the Oilers want one of their kids to push up onto a skill line. I think it’s Hartikainen–have for some time–but they may want to give Paajarvi the first shot.

  6. bookje says:

    Lowetide:
    spOILer: One of the things I believe we’ll find out as time goes on this summer is that the Oilers want one of their kids to push up onto a skill line. I think it’s Hartikainen–have for some time–but they may want to give Paajarvi the first shot.

    Which means that Smyth is without an NHL team to play for in Edmonton. He either signs a bargain contract or seeks to play in another city (which his family doesn’t like). As GM, I don’t know that I would want to trade an upcoming player away to make room for soon to be retired player.

    With that said, guys like Jones and Eager are pretty expendable.

  7. Traktor says:

    Redline’s scouting report on Moroz sounds pretty amazing.

  8. Matt.N says:

    I know you don’t rank according to proximity to the NHL, but having Khaira higher than some of the others seems wrong. There is some upside there, but he is more likely the next Les Reaney than the next Jamie Benn.

  9. Woodguy says:

    That’s a pretty exciting list.

    Especially when you couple it with the skilled young men already on the Oilers’ roster.

    Its almost balanced.

    Its missing C’s though, only Lander is there.

    Its funny, I was reading through some 2007/2008 draft threads on a couple Oiler fan sites (including this one) and the big bitch was that every forward the Oilers drafted was a C, no natural wingers.

    Now the team is bereft of good bets on C.

    A smart management team will fill needs from the surplus.

    Krueger gets announced tomorrow as coach, and the most important week in Steve Tambellini’s career starts.

    We know all the holes they need to fill.

    They managed to not out think themselves on the Nail pick, hopefully they are as clear minded on the two Dmen they need.

    I really hope that picking Nail was the latest moment of “clarity” that the organization has experienced.

  10. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Should I be unsettled that you’ve managed to fit nearly all of this year’s picks into the top 20 (excepting Gustafsson and McCaron)?

    I wonder what the top 20 looks like three days ago.

    Also, are Paajarvi, Plante, Fedun and a few hangers on not considered prospects anymore, and/or have some of them fallen into oblivion?

  11. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy,

    Woodguy:

    Krueger gets announced tomorrow as coach, and the most important week in Steve Tambellini’s career starts.

    is that a gut feeling or is there some rumour or leak that I haven’t heard…??

  12. Lowetide says:

    Okay, I was going to do a post on this but can’t really get enough traction to make it real. Here’s the premise: On the tsn draft coverage (which I taped) James Duthie says the following at 5:07pm

    “INTERESTING ON EDMONTON THE LAST TWO YEARS ALL THE SCOUTS KNEW WHO THE PICKS WERE. THIS YEAR MANAGEMENT MADE THEIR DECISION AFTER THE SCOUTS MEETING, SO ALL THE SCOUTS AND STAFF WILL FIND OUT WHO THE PICK IS WHEN WE DO.”

    I think the Oilers upper management MAY have overruled the scouts.

  13. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Woodguy,

    is that a gut feeling or is there some rumour or leak that I haven’t heard…??

    Gregor is saying to expect the announcement Monday, Jones is saying the same thing.

  14. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Okay, I was going to do a post on this but can’t really get enough traction to make it real. Here’s the premise:On the tsn draft coverage (which I taped) James Duthie says the following at 5:07pm

    “INTERESTING ON EDMONTON THE LAST TWO YEARS ALL THE SCOUTS KNEW WHO THE PICKS WERE. THIS YEAR MANAGEMENT MADE THEIR DECISION AFTER THE SCOUTS MEETING, SO ALL THE SCOUTS AND STAFF WILL FIND OUT WHO THE PICK IS WHEN WE DO.”

    I think the Oilers upper management MAY have overruled the scouts.

    I’d bet on that is what happened.

  15. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Should I be unsettled that you’ve managed to fit nearly all of this year’s picks into the top 20 (excepting Gustafsson and McCaron)?

    I wonder what the top 20 looks like three days ago.

    Also, are Paajarvi, Plante, Fedun and a few hangers on not considered prospects anymore, and/or have some of them fallen into oblivion?

    MPS’s NHL games disqualifies him from the list.

    I think Plante fell off.

    I’d have Fedun on the list for sure. At the very least in place of Joey Legs.

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Well, I did post it.

    Thanks!!

    I’ve been sleeping on the blogs for the past couple of months… a time out/rehab as it were.

    so added are
    Yak
    Zhar
    Kharia
    Leggy
    Moroz

    and out are
    Bigos
    VDV
    Pelss
    Frans
    Plante

    It seems like an upgrade to me (even discounting Yak). Of course the new list has an extra year of youth and upside potential… optimism over crushing reality.

  17. bookje says:

    Lowetide:
    Okay, I was going to do a post on this but can’t really get enough traction to make it real. Here’s the premise:On the tsn draft coverage (which I taped) James Duthie says the following at 5:07pm

    “INTERESTING ON EDMONTON THE LAST TWO YEARS ALL THE SCOUTS KNEW WHO THE PICKS WERE. THIS YEAR MANAGEMENT MADE THEIR DECISION AFTER THE SCOUTS MEETING, SO ALL THE SCOUTS AND STAFF WILL FIND OUT WHO THE PICK IS WHEN WE DO.”

    I think the Oilers upper management MAY have overruled the scouts.

    I think management got tired of leaks and has moved to closed door decision making. Management always make the picks, the scouts make recommendations.

  18. bookje says:

    Woodguy: I’d bet on that is what happened.

    You think the scouts wanted Murray?

  19. HBomb says:

    Lowetide,

    Maybe it’s just me being nitpicky after back-to-back nights of heavy alcohol consumption (who the heck holds a stag party the day after the NHL draft anyways?), but you’ve still got Lander on the Top 20 list, in spite of him having played 56 NHL games. Isn’t 50 the normal cut-off? Or is an exception being made here for some (likely very good) reason)?

    (PS to Woodguy: with response to your comment during the “Devil is tending bar” discussion, just because I’m what South Park termed a “day-walker” does not make me Satan’s spawn….it only seems that way sometimes).

  20. DBO says:

    Can’t find where I saw it, but I read somewhere that Katz overruled the management who wanted Murray and told them to pick Yakupov. If that’s true then maybe he is second guessing Tambo. If so, why give him a 3 yr extension.

  21. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think VDV plays more than a few games for the Oilers this year.

    Especially if they trade Belanger.

    Even if they have Lander ahead of VDV on the depth chart (and their AHL results say VDV should be ahead), injuries will happen and VDV will play some.

  22. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    bookje: You think the scouts wanted Murray?

    from Sliderrule’s post yesterday:

    “The tweet by Tencer that oiler management overruled the scouts on Yak vs Murray jibes with what I have heard previously.”

    I can’t find the tweet… and I wouldn’t put too much trust in Tencer anyway, but it’s out there.

  23. Lowetide says:

    HBomb: Yeah, I held Lander back because he shouldn’t pay for the Oilers idiocy (wasn’t his fault they let him die on the 4line). I think he’ll play a bunch in OKC this season and then we’ll see.

    Staples has an article up at COH saying someone on the draft floor told an NHL team they would have to beat EDM’s offer of Gagner and Paajarvi for Yandle.

    What do we think? I don’t want to give up either forward, and as WG pointed out the other day EDM would be acquiring a soft minutes killer without having any soft minutes.

    I’d pass. What say you?

  24. Jesse says:

    The impending Krueger hiring is frustrating. Is he that much of an upgrade on Renney? Because it feels like firing Renney was knee-jerk, and then they couldn’t find anyone else they wanted. I definitely don’t dislike Krueger and he might be bloody brilliant, but it just seems like an odd decision to me.

    Add all of this to the fact that I watched Lethal Weapon 2 last night and now I keep hearing in my head “Krugerand” every time Ralph’s name is mentioned. It makes me think there are 2 new coaches coming. “we’re hiring Krueger and…”.

  25. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think VDV plays more than a few games for the Oilers this year.

    Especially if they trade Belanger.

    Even if they have Lander ahead of VDV on the depth chart (and their AHL results say VDV should be ahead), injuries will happen and VDV will play some.

    I wonder what C would look like if we hadn’t shed Brule and O’Marra? You add Cogs and that’s three Cs lost in the last year or so. Strange that we didn’t draft one this year.

    Isn’t Pitlick a Center on occasion? He’s listed as such on the oiler website. Would he be a better option than VDV…

    Of course there is always the nuclear option: call up Green again.

  26. Lowetide says:

    The problem at C is that the Oilers counted Lander in the wrong column before he flew over Canadian airspace. Terrible terrible roster decision making. If Renney argued for it, that’s a reason right there he was rightly skulled.

  27. Jesse says:

    Gagner and Paajarvi for Yandle seems like a slight overpay. Plus, it would kind of screw the Oilers over on C for this season (unless Hall miraculously kills it in his first NHL season at C).

    I wonder if MBS was so pissed that the scouts were overruled on Murray that he spitefully pushed for Moroz. Lol.

  28. DBO says:

    LT : no to that deal. That is a lot to give up. Add a pick and that’s a deal that should get you kn the Weber talk. Not for Yandle. And we have no replacement for Gagner so really it’s not an option. MPS and a prospect maybe. Only because we can replace him. There are no quality second line centres out there s a UFA.

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Gags and Paaj for Yandle seems like a bad move to me. We are desperate for Ds… but not that desperate.

    Get Schultz… start there.

    “Kruegerand” haha… MacT?

    He seemed to roll lines and match ups with more sense than Renney when Renney went down. it’s a small sample size, but a lot of people noted that some of Renney’s more frustrating tendencies evaporated with Kreuger at the helm. Maybe Mgt. noticed too?

    C and Lander

    starting him there seemed like a wide-eyed decision that you can pass over as excitable beginning of the season mistake… but keeping him there was inexcusable. Hope it doesn’t damage his development.

  30. Lowetide says:

    RE: Yakupov. Whoever saved the scouts from taking Murray I think that person(s) will be proven correct in a big way. I wonder about the MacT influence. I’d be more aggressive in saying it, but it is early. There does seem to be some different thinking going on with the Oilers currently, but I can’t tell if its me promoting an idea of mine or an actuality happening before us.

  31. Bar_Qu says:

    For what Michalek went for Gagner plus anything is a huge overpay for Yandle. Dunno why the Oilers are always on the outside looking in when trades like the Michalek ones are made.

    A much improved list from two seasons ago and a fine balance for nearly all positions. Just hope the next nine days are what they need to be (still waiting for at least one more of WG’s predicted missteps).

  32. Woodguy says:

    bookje: You think the scouts wanted Murray?

    Yes

  33. Jesse says:

    LT: different thinking?

  34. Traktor says:

    Lowetide:

    Staples has an article up at COH saying someone on the draft floor told an NHL team they would have to beat EDM’s offer of Gagner and Paajarvi for Yandle.

    What do we think? I don’t want to give up either forward, and as WG pointed out the other day EDM would be acquiring a soft minutes killer without having any soft minutes.

    I’d pass. What say you?

    If you wouldn’t make that trade you need to forever hold your peace when it comes to acquiring a D. That trade is an avalanche in Edmonton’s favor.

    Assuming that Yandle is nothing but a soft minute killer (not true) we would be trading two players that are not even soft minute killers nevermind established tough minute players.

    Instead of looking for players that can play tough minutes why not add a player that can force the other team to play tough minutes!! Yandle can do that.

    The ability to defend is great, the ability to get the puck out of your zone and not have to defend is even greater.

    I wouldn’t be happy with losing MPS because he has some size that we lack but Gagner’s skill-set is not a rare item.

  35. bookje says:

    Jesse:The impending Krueger hiring is frustrating. Is he that much of an upgrade on Renney? Because it feels like firing Renney was knee-jerk, and then they couldn’t find anyone else they wanted. I definitely don’t dislike Krueger and he might be bloody brilliant, but it just seems like an odd decision to me.

    I think that Krueger may have impressed management to such a level that he helped push Renney out the door. Krueger did an excellent job in improving his part of the team (PP) and while he had some great young talent, he brought the Oilers up into the top of the league range. Also, when he managed the bench for a few games, he did a far superior job at managing his lines.

    How do you say “the firing of Renney was knee-jerk” when the Oilers took a great deal of time to make the decision (something that they were criticised for here). Renney demonstrated a lot of weaknesses as a coach. I never knew how much of those was due to management mandates (give the kids soft minutes) or how much was Renney himself, but he made a lot of strange coaching moves.

    Also, as per not being able to find a coach, I think it is important to understand that pretty much any of the candidates out there would have happily of come to the Oilers. Getting coaches to come to a team is not near as hard as players. Players have many opportunities available to them, getting a coaching opportunity in the NHL is a very very rare thing. There are only a few openings every year.

    I don’t think Krueger was some kind of fallback position in the coaching hire (assuming he is actually hired tomorrow or soon which I think is very likely), I think he has been deemed an excellent candidate.

  36. Woodguy says:

    HBomb:
    Lowetide,

    Maybe it’s just me being nitpicky after back-to-back nights of heavy alcohol consumption (who the heck holds a stag party the day after the NHL draft anyways?), but you’ve still got Lander on the Top 20 list, in spite of him having played 56 NHL games. Isn’t 50 the normal cut-off? Or is an exception being made here for some (likely very good) reason)?

    (PS to Woodguy: with response to your comment during the “Devil is tending bar” discussion, just because I’m what South Park termed a “day-walker” does not make me Satan’s spawn….it only seems that way sometimes).

    I was just questioning if you were the devil. LT was the one who confirmed it.

    Good to see you wrung out your liver enough to post sir.

  37. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    RE: Yakupov. Whoever saved the scouts from taking Murray I think that person(s) will be proven correct in a big way. I wonder about the MacT influence. I’d be more aggressive in saying it, but it is early. There does seem to be some different thinking going on with the Oilers currently, but I can’t tell if its me promoting an idea of mine or an actuality happening before us.

    “there is no defence for dynamic offence”
    MacT

    I think you might be on to something… maybe with that business degree he came out swinging a bigger dick at the team meetings

  38. spoiler says:

    Woodguy:

    Krueger gets announced tomorrow as coach, and the most important week in Steve Tambellini’s career starts.

    I hope so. Going after Schultz with no coach is sheer folly. Krueger and Katz are the guys I would have pitching him.

    As to the Yak pick, it looked like Katz was happy going to the stage and Tambo unhappy. I wonder if the Bossman made the pick this year over his scouts and management.

  39. Lowetide says:

    Jesse:
    LT: different thinking?

    Yeah, I should explain that lol. Okay, here’s an example: In one of the final media conferences after the draft, ST used the word “depth” in regard to defense, as in depth defenseman. That tells me Marc Methot is coming to town, or someone like him.

    Now, MacT talking to Jason Gregor about 10 days ago about team needs:

    “I think they are well documented. This game isn’t that complicated when you analyze the personnel. We need a little bit of help on the defence, that would be my primary concern at this point. I think the veterans will respond next year to this environment, they need to be better, but my wish list, much like 17,000 people that watched them in Rexall on a nightly basis, will be to try and improve the defence. When we do that I think the team will have a real push forward.”

    There. That’s it in a nutshell. Clarity, a single purpose, saying what you mean and meaning what you say. God almighty I missed that man.

  40. bookje says:

    Woodguy: Yes

    Interesting, usually we see management as going against the grain and picking players for need or ‘being the smartest guy in the room’ or whatever. Maybe our scouts are hitting the point that they are getting too confident and overthinking things. Most head amateur scouts have 2-4 really good years and then the wheels fall off (see Barry Fraser for reference). Maybe we are hitting that point.

  41. bookje says:

    Lowetide,

    I think improvements on the D will result in some of the forwards doing much better as well.

  42. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide,

    So by “different thinking” you just mean “thinking”

  43. DBO says:

    Methot mentioned a lot on the msm. Anyone have fancy stats on him? Please tell me he’s at least right handed.

  44. Bar_Qu says:

    According to Behind the Net, from what I can read anyways, Methot is not their worst D. Played with poor players against relatively tough opp. He is not who i would chase.

  45. Lowetide says:

    Methot: late 2nd, early 3rd pairing QUAL COMP, ghastly CORSIREL and 3rd easiest ZONE START.

  46. Bar_Qu says:

    Shoots left too

  47. Traktor says:

    In baseball terms Gagner is either a SS or a Catcher with below average D and above average offense or a 1B that lacks power.

    You don’t build around those players. Lordy!!!!

  48. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Don’t we already have Marc “Andy” Sutton?

    and I thought we needed a right D… did I eff that up?

  49. Traktor says:

    Methot is Matt Greene before Matt Greene was Matt Greene.

  50. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: Good description.

  51. Lowetide says:

    Romulus: Nope, you’re right and right. RH tough minutes defender in the Tom Gilbert style (is what we need). Methot isn’t the guy.

  52. godot10 says:

    Ryan Murray and Griffin Reinhart are going to be very good players.

    Nugent-Hopkins, Landeskog, Courturier, Larsson, and perhaps even Huberdeau could well be seen to be 1A, 1B, !C, 1D, and 1E in three years.

    Murray and Reinhart 1B and1C next to Yakupov.

    This wasn’t a one player draft, anymore than last year was a one player draft. There was more than one right choice possible.

    When you are picking #1, that is not purely a scouting decision. It is also a management and ownership decision. (i.e. The scouts don’t know the intel management may or may not have on Justin Schultz.)

    I think Katz probably ended up making both the Hall (over Seguin) and Yakupov (over Murray) calls based on the final scouts ranking, his own assessment of the players from meeting them, intelligence on Schultz, and other management plans to acquire defensemen.

    On Moroz: The Oilers undoubtedly couldn’t find a move down or move up trade partner overnight, so they chose to pick the player whose development they have complete control over 10-15 spots ahead of where he would have been picked.

    Maatta sliding made it next to impossible for the Oilers to find a trade up partner on Day 1 to get Samuelsson at a reasonable price. That and it being perfectly clear who the Oilers wanted. This was probably pretty much the case with Moroz too. Other teams could look at the board, and look at where the Oilers wanted to move, and look at the Oilers obvious needs, and know who they wanted. The Oilers would have had to overpay to get a pick in the perfect position to draft Samuelsson and Moroz perfectly. So the Oilers overpaid by picking Moroz’s a bit early, rather than overpay to get the perfect draft slot to pick the player.

  53. Maverick says:

    Lowetide: Yeah, I should explain that lol. Okay, here’s an example: In one of the final media conferences after the draft, ST used the word “depth” in regard to defense, as in depth defenseman. That tells me Marc Methot is coming to town, or someone like him.

    Now, MacT talking to Jason Gregor about 10 days ago about team needs:

    “I think they are well documented. This game isn’t that complicated when you analyze the personnel. We need a little bit of help on the defence, that would be my primary concern at this point. I think the veterans will respond next year to this environment, they need to be better, but my wish list, much like 17,000 people that watched them in Rexall on a nightly basis, will be to try and improve the defence. When we do that I think the team will have a real push forward.”

    There. That’s it in a nutshell. Clarity, a single purpose, saying what you mean and meaning what you say. God almighty I missed that man.

    LT’s last line:”Clarity, a single purpose, saying what you mean and meaning what you say. God almighty I missed that man” I think we all feel that way!

    I wasn’t the biggest MacT booster over the years when he was here but when he left I missed him and now that he is back I can see why. Lowe and MacT were emotional players and wore their emotions on their sleeves as coach and management. Their approach right or wrong is comforting to us cause it comes across as they care, both very well spoken individuals with wit and humor and intelligence.

    With MacT back in the fold it gives Kevin another strong personality as himself to tell him to “stick it” where the sun don’t shine when its needed. As for Tambellini, he just doesn’t strike me as having some of the qualities the other two men have. Tambellini seems more like the Tin Man or the Lion in the Wizard of Oz.

    The Top 20 list looks better than it has in years still lacking in a few areas center being one area, but the NHL roster at forward next season is a massive improvement offensively from years past. Depending how the new coach sets his lines the opposition is going to have a tough time handling wave after wave of talent coming at them. Wow, that feels good to write that!

    Hall-Gagner-Eberle
    MPS-RNH-Yakupov (not sure if MPS belongs there)
    Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky

    Defense as we all know is a different story lets see what will happen the next 2 weeks. Puck mover needed, if Whitney is healthy that would be a major plus.

  54. Traktor says:

    If you read what MacT says the new coach should bring its not Kruger.

  55. Woodguy says:

    Yandle’s QC on PHX D for the last 5 years: (min 40gp)

    07/08 8/8 -1.29/60 (rookie season)
    08/09 6/7 -0.33/60
    09/10 7/7 +0.98/60
    10/11 4/8 +0.47/60
    11/12 7/7 +0.37/60

    He doesn’t have a history of playing against the tougher opponents.
    He may be able to, but Tippett moved him back to 3rd pairing after having him on 2nd pairing for a year.
    I don’t think the Oilers are in a position to test drive someone against 1st comp.
    Putting players in positions above their established NHL level is something the Oilers have a history of doing, with the expected shitty results.

  56. Lowetide says:

    Traktor:
    If you read what MacT says the new coach should bring its not Kruger.

    I’d be fine with not bringing in Krueger. If they do, it’ll be a good not perfect fit imo.

  57. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    If you read what MacT says the new coach should bring its not Kruger.

    Where does he say what the new coach should bring? Link?

  58. Lowetide says:

    WG: Agree. Oilers need an established NHLer who can stand up against the other team’s toughest.

  59. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Romulus: Nope, you’re right and right. RH tough minutes defender in the Tom Gilbert style (is what we need). Methot isn’t the guy.

    so J. Schultz on the Right moving the puck up (hopefully)… and X on the right shutting the other side down.

    Too bad we couldn’t get N. Schultz for Gags and/or MP or some mix of forward talent… that would solve a lot of problems if we could have kept T. Gils

  60. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: I’d be fine with not bringing in Krueger. If they do, it’ll be a good not perfect fit imo.

    of the other candidates who would you prefer?

  61. Traktor says:

    Yandle averaged the most 5v5 minutes on Phoenix yet he played on the 3rd pairing?

    It seems like your opinion of Yandle is 100% based off of BTN.

  62. jake70 says:

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Katz made the decisions on Hall, RNH, and Yakupov. He is trying to recreate as close as he can the lethal forward group of the 80s team he cheered for.

    Best quote of the last year from this fan’s perspective: “Those games are fun,” Hall said with a chuckle. “If I had my choice, I’d rather play a 7-6 game than a 2-1 game, for sure.” ….. post Chicago game where Gagner scored eight. Tell me Katz wasn’t chuckling when he heard this as well, I know I was.

    I

  63. gd says:

    I hope Methot is the default option, and maybe makes sense if they get Schultz.. My hope is they get the best vet that they can get for Hemsky and picks, whether it be Tyutin (though that contract is pretty long), Enstrom, Streit, Yandle, Martin or Timmonen.

    I am okay with Krueger as coach. He will be the easiest guy to turf if things go wrong this year and odds are one of Vignault, Tippett, McCellan, Babcock, or Quenville will be on the market for our new GM.

    The prospect list looks great to me. Go to Hockey Futures and compare our list to most teams and we are definitely in the top 5 (though we better be after 3 last place years in a row). Moroz was a reach, but this was a pretty weak draft, it looks like half the teams were reaching already in the 2nd round. There were so many overagers picked, I thought this might finally be my year. The best part of picking Yak is that worse case scenario he is still the best trading chip.

  64. Traktor says:

    Lowetide:
    Oilers need an established NHLer who can stand up against the other team’s toughest.

    Do Gagner and MPS ” stand up against the other team’s toughest”?

    It would appear all 3 play against shitty comp except Yandle is the only one the kills it.

    hmmmm

  65. Woodguy says:

    Traktor:
    Yandle averaged the most 5v5 minutes on Phoenix yet he played on the 3rd pairing?

    It seems like your opinion of Yandle is 100% based off of BTN.

    No, he’s deployed like Vigneualt deploys the Sedins. Gets him out in advantageous situations at every opportunity.

    If the Oilers had room for that type of player I’d be all for it, but they don’t.

  66. fuzzy muppet says:

    Gagner has one more year to see if he can up his game. He’s barely older than Eberle and plays a much more difficult position. It’s too early to say he will Never be the guy to play 2C.

    But i think managements patience is wearing thin. It’s now or never for Gagner. The biggest problem is that they have such little depth at the position, they cant really move him . Center is as big a need as defense

  67. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: Where does he say what the new coach should bring? Link?

    It was on Oilers Nation around a week ago.

  68. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Here’s the article, it is under “Coaching”
    http://oilersnation.com/2012/6/13/mixed-bag

  69. Traktor says:

    Woodguy: No, he’s deployed like Vigneualt deploys the Sedins.Gets him out in advantageous situations at every opportunity.

    If the Oilers had room for that type of player I’d be all for it, but they don’t.

    You are basically saying there would be no room for the Sedin’s either because they kill soft comp.

    Hilarious.

    Edmonton has no room for a 50 point defensemen that is +33 the past 3 years.

    But they should sign Garrison for 5 years.

  70. Jesse says:

    bookje,

    Okay, fair point. Maybe “knee-jerk” isn’t as good of a description as “scapegoat”. I know the guy made some poor decisions this past year, but as has been said many a time, he don’t have much depth to work with. I guess I said “knee jerk” because I saw it as, “gasp! We didn’t make the progress we wanted! Someone’s gotta go!” So maybe scapegoat does fit better.

    Tyler Dellow wrote a great article on why hiring Krueger based on such a small sample size is a poor choice (speaking directly to the games he head coached this season) here:
    http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4661
    Again, I don’t dislike Krueger and if they’re basing his Suitability for the head position on more than the few games he manned in lieu of Renney, then great. I guess my main point is that firing Renney was a huge decision at this stage of the rebuild, because the next coach (Krueger?) has to be THE guy to take them to the promised land. Otherwise, if theyre searchig for a new coach in 2 seasons to be THE guy, there will be no mistaking that this thing has run off the rails in a big way. Renney was supposed to be the stop gap coach. So I guess I just feel like Krueger is perhaps a strange choice to be the “Promised Land Coach That Takes Them To The Next Level”.

  71. Traktor says:

    I would prefer Weber over Yandle but I would rather give up Gagner than RNH.

    That’s just me.

  72. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: No, he’s deployed like Vigneualt deploys the Sedins.Gets him out in advantageous situations at every opportunity.

    If the Oilers had room for that type of player I’d be all for it, but they don’t.

    That still doesn’t fully account for having the highest EV TOI number–there’s just not that many soft situations. And it may have something to do with mentoring OEL more than Yandle himself.

  73. Woodguy says:

    I look at VIc’s TOI app a lot to see how coaches deploy their players.

    Here’s a good example for Yandle: http://timeonice.com/H2H1112.html?GameNumber=21178&submit=Go

    He see’s ANA’s 2nd line the most, then their 4th line, then 3rd line, then 1st line (under 2 minutes for Getz/Perry)

    Plug in a bunch of PHX game numbers (5 digit number) and get a good idea of how Tippet deploys him. Uses him as offensive punch whenever he can in advantageous situations.

    The columns are sortable when you click on them.

    Great tool for figuring out who is seeing which match up.

    Gives you a window into how other teams see the Oilers based on how they deploy against them.

  74. Henry says:

    Lowetide:
    WG: Agree. Oilers need an established NHLer who can stand up against the other team’s toughest.

    How about Vlasic? He plays the tough as Boyle’s conscience. SJ has $11M of cap left to fill out 8 spots. They are top heavy and may not be able to sign him next year. May be able to get for picks next year? They don’t need Gagner unless they see him as a winger.

  75. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: That still doesn’t fully account for having the highest EV TOI number–there’s just not that many soft siutations. And it may have something to do with mentoring OEL.

    See my post above.

    He didn’t play with OEL this past year, he played with Morris most, then Aucoin.

    You can look that up at BTN too: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_on_ice_stats.php?ds=8&f1=2011_s&f2=5v5&f5=PHX&c=0+1+3+5+8+7+9+11+13+15+17

  76. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Traktor: It was on Oilers Nation around a week ago.

    Lowetide:
    Woodguy: Here’s the article, it is under “Coaching”
    http://oilersnation.com/2012/6/13/mixed-bag

    Sounds like MacT is looking for a cult of personality… “dynamic presence” sounds like how you would describe Rasputin.

    Maybe I’m forcing his words too far… but I don’t think the choice has to be between a dry technocrat (maybe Ken Hitchcockesque??) and a mystic snake charmer.

    Demers couldn’t even read:

    http://oilersnation.com/2011/11/12/an-evening-with-jacques-demers

    That’s how far coaches have come… now they are expected to dabble in stats, complex tactics, motivational speaking, group psychology etc.

    I’d be happy to get someone who adds a “dynamic presence” without sacrificing strategy and quality decision making.

  77. Woodguy says:

    Traktor: You are basically saying there would be no room for the Sedin’s either because they kill soft comp.

    Hilarious.

    Edmonton has no room for a 50 point defensemen that is +33 the past 3 years.

    But they should sign Garrison for 5 years.

    Where did I say I didn’t want the Sedins?

    I think if the OIlers sign Yandle, he’d be the best Oiler Dman.

    They’d play him against tough comp, watch his offense drop by 1/2 or more and everyone will wonder what happened.

    Expecting the same results from Yandle when he’d be put in 1st pairing is just not thinking it through.

    Just like when Getzlaf started to take on toughs and his offense disappeared and everyone invented a reason (“just not into it, must not be happy” etc) when the reason is that its significantly tougher to score against the best in the NHL.

    Garrison has played against the best in the NHL.

    Shut them down with Weaver as his partner.

    Beat the shit out of them with Campbell as his partner.

    I want a Dman who has a history of beating the best, or at least holding his own.

    Garrison has that.

    Yandle doesn’t.

    Yandle might be able to, but at this point its just a guess.

    Its not a guess with Garrison

    I prefer evidence before proclaiming what a player can and can’t do.

    Stupid eh?

  78. jonrmcleod says:

    What was treenasoil saying pre-draft that discredits her/him? I don’t follow him/her on Twitter since, as a pastor, it’s not best to have a scantily clad woman in my follow list.

  79. gd says:

    Does it not make sense to put RNH with Yak and reunite the Hall-Gag-Eberle line which is where Gag has his most success. To me that is the best chance to pump up his trade value. I don’t know if we need to trade him, but if he is going to be our 2nd line C we will eventually need a 6’2″ plus C for our third line like Gaustad/Hanzal.

  80. Lowetide says:

    Anyone ever wonders why I do this blog, the payback comes in things like the sentence above in Rom’s post that includes Rasputin. Man. that’s good. AND funny.

  81. Lowetide says:

    gd:
    Does it not make sense to put RNH with Yak and reunite the Hall-Gag-Eberle line which is where Gag has his most success. To me that is the best chance to pump up his trade value. I don’t know if we need to trade him, but if he is going to be our 2nd line C we will eventually need a 6’2″ plus C for our third line like Gaustad/Hanzal.

    I’d go this (C-L-R)

    Gagner-Hall-Hemsky
    Nuge-Yakupov-Eberle

    and get as much soft minutes matchup as I could for the #2 line.

  82. Rondo says:

    Edmonton had a whole night to decide who to pick 32nd, there were no surprises before that, it not like they had 10 minutes to decide.

    If you believe in Stu you got to accept the pick.

  83. godot10 says:

    Jesse:
    bookje,

    Okay, fair point. Maybe “knee-jerk” isn’t as good of a description as “scapegoat”. I know the guy made some poor decisions this past year, but as has been said many a time, he don’t have much depth to work with. I guess I said “knee jerk” because I saw it as, “gasp! We didn’t make the progress we wanted! Someone’s gotta go!” So maybe scapegoat does fit better.

    Tyler Dellow wrote a great article on why hiring Krueger based on such a small sample size is a poor choice (speaking directly to the games he head coached this season) here:
    http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4661
    Again, I don’t dislike Krueger and if they’re basing his Suitability for the head position on more than the few games he manned in lieu of Renney, then great. I guess my main point is that firing Renney was a huge decision at this stage of the rebuild, because the next coach (Krueger?) has to be THE guy to take them to the promised land. Otherwise, if theyre searchig for a new coach in 2 seasons to be THE guy, there will be no mistaking that this thing has run off the rails in a big way. Renney was supposed to be the stop gap coach. So I guess I just feel like Krueger is perhaps a strange choice to be the “Promised Land Coach That Takes Them To The Next Level”.

    You realize that Krueger has more head coaching experience than any of the other likely candidates…Sutter, Cooper, Nelson, etc.

  84. godot10 says:

    Garrison doesn’t cost you anything but money. Yandle costs you the same money, and two players. Garrison is probably the better defensive defenseman, which is what the Oilers need.

  85. Woodguy says:

    It really depends on how they would deploy Yandle.

    He’s LH, so if they sign him and J. Shultz and deploy:

    Smid-Petry (toughs – same as last year)
    Yandle-J. Shultz (2nd toughs and opportunistic ZS like Tippet deployed Yandle)
    Whitney- Shultz the elder

    Then he would fit.

    My fear is that they wouldn’t deploy him like that.

    Then again, if Krueger is coach, he might.

    My fear is that if they trade for Yandle they’d go:

    Yandle – Petry against the toughs, and Yandle’s offense would be severely hampered.

  86. godot10 says:

    But Garrison may be headed to Vancouver, and Yandle may be the player who is available.

  87. Traktor says:

    There’s no room for Yandle but Renney is a bad coach for not finding room for Omark.

    Edmonton needs players that can play against top lines – that’s why trading Gagner makes no sense.

    Edmonton shouldn’t trade their Dodge Neon for a Corvette because they need a pickup truck.

  88. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: That still doesn’t fully account for having the highest EV TOI number–there’s just not that many soft situations. And it may have something to do with mentoring OEL more than Yandle himself.

    I looked at a bunch of PHX games for match ups.

    Yandle generally sees the 2nd Offensive line of a team, then the dregs. Easily accounts for his overall QC being “3rd pairing”

  89. Traktor says:

    Lowetide: I’d go this (C-L-R)

    Gagner-Hall-Hemsky
    Nuge-Yakupov-Eberle

    and get as much soft minutes matchup as I could for the #2 line.

    Hopefully Methot or whatever defensive D they trade for can get them the puck. #highglass

  90. Maverick says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Sounds like MacT is looking for a cult of personality… “dynamic presence” sounds like how you would describe Rasputin.

    Maybe I’m forcing his words too far… but I don’t think the choice has to be between a dry technocrat (maybe Ken Hitchcockesque??) and a mystic snake charmer.

    Demers couldn’t even read:

    http://oilersnation.com/2011/11/12/an-evening-with-jacques-demers

    That’s how far coaches have come… now they are expected to dabble in stats, complex tactics, motivational speaking, group psychology etc.

    I’d be happy to get someone who adds a “dynamic presence” without sacrificing strategy and quality decision making.

    In his spare time isn’t Krueger a motivational speaker? That might just put him ahead of the rest of the pack for the job as the coach of the Oilers. Turning a team build from failure, to progressing and succeeding moving forward. When he get the head coaching gig will he be handing out copies of his book? Teamlife: From Failure to Success.

    http://www.europeanspeakers.com/motivation/97-ralph-krueger.html

  91. SoxandOil says:

    What about Hjarmsson (sp?) his name has been coming up lately, is he a worthy pursuit? And what would be a acceptable cost?

  92. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    That’s how far coaches have come… now they are expected to dabble in stats, complex tactics, motivational speaking, group psychology etc.
    I’d be happy to get someone who adds a “dynamic presence” without sacrificing strategy and quality decision making.

    I think that’s Krueger.

    I liked his tactics.

    Has the motivational thing down too:

    http://www.teamlife.ch/

    http://www.jla.co.uk/conference-speakers/ralph-krueger

    http://www.weforum.org/global-agenda-councils/ralph-krueger

    http://londonspeakerbureau.co.uk/speakers/ralph_krueger

    http://middleeastspeakers.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97%3Aralph-krueger&catid=5&Itemid=7

  93. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: See my post above.

    He didn’t play with OEL this past year, he played with Morris most, then Aucoin.

    You can look that up at BTN too:http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_on_ice_stats.php?ds=8&f1=2011_s&f2=5v5&f5=PHX&c=0+1+3+5+8+7+9+11+13+15+17

    Yeah, I was reading your post above thinking “ahh, that was perfect timing.”. I trust Vic’s app more than I do QC/QT numbers.

    So it sounds like he’s playing 2nd comp with some extra butter thrown in (keeping in mind Koivu and Selanne are no slouches), and knocking it out. Not bad.

    It still means we could send Petry and Smid against the toughs and Yandle against everyone else plus he can QB the PP. He’s signed long term through UFA years at 1/14th of the cap. His age is perfect–just hitting his prime. Provides good offense on a defensive team. Replaces Whitney going forward…

    Still puts us back to playing whack-a-mole. Obviously Shultz is the ideal option because he costs nothing but salary.

  94. Woodguy says:

    That’s the 2nd time in the last two weeks that Maverick and I made the same post at the same time.

    GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!

    (insert comment from Traktor about there being a lot of room available in my head)

  95. Woodguy says:

    spoiler,

    I trust Vic’s app more than I do QC/QT numbers.

    I hear you.

    I understand the BTN numbers more after studying a bunch of games because the BTN numbers are a blend.

    We use “3rd toughs, 2nd pairing” as short hand, but the truth is much more nuanced.

    That’s probably where a bunch of the arguments lie as well.

    Its more a difference in language than ideas, but the language represents different ideas to different people and the arguments go from there.

  96. Maverick says:

    Woodguy:
    That’s the 2nd time in the last two weeks that Maverick and I made the same post at the same time.

    GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!

    (insert comment from Traktor about there being a lot of room available in my head)

    LOL – Awesome!

  97. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Garrison’s on the left too. Wouldn’t that be three shutdown types on the left side (Garrison, Smid and N. Schultz)? unless you expect his 16 goals to be repeatable?

    Hjalmarsson’s on the left too and a shutdown guy no?

    Can one of Smid, N. Schultz, Sutton and Whitney play on the right?… otherwise someone’s got to go to fit those guys in, right?

    Who’s available on the right side, aside from J. Schultz

    motivational speaking:

    nice catch boys! Maybe, then, Krueger is the guy MacT is looking for… though I certainly don’t look at the guy and find myself prone to leaps of faith and flights of fancy

  98. Cactus says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Tencer

    To return to the earlier speculation, I think a guy like Tencer has every interest in promoting any kind of rumour that says that management overruled the scouts. All the Oilers media insiders with the exception of the baby-faced Tom Gazzola were pretty certain that Murray was the pick (particularly Tencer, with his smug, shit eating grin). All of a sudden, they’re dead wrong and they’ve got to backtrack while trying to maintain listener confidence that they’re “in the know”.

    Unfortunately, we can only KNOW one of two things about this draft, in comparison to the last two. Either:

    1) There were more leaks in the Oilers organization this time. This might be caused by disgruntled elements not getting their way (a passionate scout or two wanting Murray or something), but again, we can’t say for sure.

    2) The Oilers, realizing that the 1st overall pick was much more predictable this time waged a two month misinformation campaign in order to build suspense and possibly encourage trade value. Given the unanimity among scouting services, it would’ve been very easy to simply assume “Well, of course the Oilers are taking Yakupov” (unless you’re on the Pierre McGuire crazy train, that is).

    Bottom line, I’m very sceptical of rumours suggesting serious disagreement in the Oilers organization as that rumour is very self-serving to a lot of local media (do not that guys like MacKenzie and Dreger didn’t buy into it – perhaps a tell).

  99. spoiler says:

    It’s Krueger’s speaking abilities and ability to motivate that makes me think he should be pitching Schultz.

  100. Maverick says:

    Doing a little research into the Yandle and Garrison comparison, Yandle offense is better but the share of TOI is important moving forward on the Oilers team. Yandle would have to do some of the heavy lifting and he doesn’t play much on the PK, is that important? For a $5.25 cap hit and Top 4 defenseman I would hope so.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/566137/keith-yandle

    Comparing that to Garrison who is still unproven but a much more balanced TOI breakdown. Is that more of the player the Oilers need on their blue line?

    http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/1639667/jason-garrison

  101. copperblueandwhite says:

    Nice list LT…I see the Russian giant is number 9…he’s either a sleeper or asleep, but could have the incentive to play with Yak…George Burnett probably pushed hard for the Oilers to take him….no Methot for me but I don’t have a problem with Yandle if the price is right…we’d still need a 1-2 D guy…how about centers? Gaustad is a free agent, huge with attitude and wins faceoffs…maybe we can dupe the Habs into Plekanec for Belanger and a box of wrenches…any word on whether J Schultz is possible or are we dreaming…I guess the talk of Latendresse ended with our draft choices…just wondering……wish training camp started tomorrow…life without hockey is like coffee without sugar….

  102. Bar_Qu says:

    Isn’t part of Krueger’s appeal the turn-around of the Swiss program? Getting a bunch of guys who couldn’t play in the WHL to fir any take Canada’s best to the wall consistently is a pretty good accomplishment coach.

    Maybe Sutter has something we didn’t see in Calgary for two years, but I doubt it.

  103. Maverick says:

    spoiler:
    It’s Krueger’s speaking abilities and ability to motivate that makes me think he should be pitching Schultz.

    That could be why Terry Jones and others are stating an announcement about the new coach will happen on Monday or this week. Take Krueger and the 4 young horsemen – (aka the four Oil-men, Hall, RNH, Eberle and Yakupov) with him to sell the farm to Mr.Schultz. Might need some motivation to come here instead of Vancouver or Toronto.

  104. Bar_Qu says:

    The guy on your list I found interesting for placement LT was Zarkhov. He’s like Omark or Reider with size. An interesting prospect to watch going fwd.

    Hoping he’s not “shine-box” pt 2 tho.

  105. bookje says:

    Woodguy: Where does he say what the new coach should bring? Link?

    He made one comment before he was hired into the position that he thought it would valuable to bring someone in from outside to bring a new voice to the room. It was a quick answer to a question and I think he probably made it without ever having met Krueger. I would not call it a serious assessment.

  106. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Cactus,

    Point taken… I would be happy to always put a mile or two between myself and a hockey rumour, especially one from Tencer.

    But, I’m not as convinced the backstage arguments over the first pick weren’t more complicated and thorny.

    Up until yesterday, for example, I was pretty sure we would take the BPA through at least the first 3 rounds and find the odd Gernat and Rieder late in the day… so who knows… expectations like to be upset.

  107. bookje says:

    jonrmcleod: H, Eberle and Yakupov) w

    That the pick would be Murray.

  108. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Maverick: That could be why Terry Jones and others are stating an announcement about the new coach will happen on Monday or this week.Take Krueger and the 4 young horsemen – (aka the four Oil-men, Hall, RNH, Eberle and Yakupov) with him to sell the farm to Mr.Schultz.Might need some motivation to come here instead of Vancouver or Toronto.

    He’s from Kelowna… so Van or Edm might be considered home (van if he’s wedded to BC; Edm or Cal if he feels more like an interior guy)

    But the big pull might be wanting to reunite with Gardiner in Toronto… plus the big city atmosphere, etc.

    Hopefully he has some sense and will see Van and Tor as the enemy of all things right and good.

  109. hunter1909 says:

    LOWETIDE IS FULL OF IT:

    Yakupov wasn’t “gifted” to the Oilers, they worked hard to suck so bad.

    I’m a big fan of their second and third round picks, for what little it’s worth: good idea to go for the type of player you need every now and again…

    PS: As a Scots-Irish redneck I must confess not to have a clue how to spell that third rounder’s name yet. But, i always used to maintain, when East Indian’s start producing hockey players, then they’re well on their way to assimilating…lol

    I hope he makes it.

  110. Lowetide says:

    Well it’s pronounced Judge-rrr Care-ah from what I’m told. I think there’s a chance he ends up being called Jar Jar Care-ah.

  111. spoiler says:

    hunter1909:
    LOWETIDE IS FULL OF IT:

    Yakupov wasn’t “gifted” to the Oilers, they worked hard to suck so bad.

    I’m a big fan of their second and third round picks, for what little it’s worth: good idea to go for the type of player you need every now and again…

    PS: As a Scots-Irish redneck I must confess not to have a clue how to spell that third rounder’s name yet. But, i always used to maintain, when East Indian’s start producing hockey players, then they’re well on their way to assimilating…lol

    I hope he makes it.

    All three are projects. Maybe Khaira has the best chance as the most well-rounded.

    And I agree with the “need” sentiment as long as they don’t continue with the same mentality next year. Fortunately we have no indication they will, as each of the Stu drafts have had its own personality.

  112. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Can one of Smid, N. Schultz, Sutton and Whitney play on the right?… otherwise someone’s got to go to fit those guys in, right?

    Its almost like trading Gilbert for a LH shut down Dman was a bad idea.

    Jesus wept.

  113. spoiler says:

    Lowetide:
    Well it’s pronounced Judge-rrr Care-ah from what I’m told. I think there’s a chance he ends up being called Jar Jar Care-ah.

    Lol, I’ve already used it once, couldn’t resist.

    By all accounts, when he plays, he jar jars.

  114. regwald says:

    Lowetide:
    Well it’s pronounced Judge-rrr Care-ah from what I’m told. I think there’s a chance he ends up being called Jar Jar Care-ah.

    Do you think his team mates will be making fun of him when he fills out that huge 6-4 or 6-5 frame and plays a punishing physical game ? LOL

  115. justDOit says:

    Maverick: In his spare time isn’t Krueger a motivational speaker? That might just put him ahead of the rest of the pack for the job as the coach of the Oilers.Turning a team build from failure, to progressing and succeeding moving forward.When he get the head coaching gig will he be handing out copies of his book? Teamlife: From Failure to Success.

    http://www.europeanspeakers.com/motivation/97-ralph-krueger.html

    Exactly. This is the type of coach that MacT was referring to, and he’s already here. He knows the players, the staff, and the culture of the team. He showed that he can manage a bench better than his former boss.

    Hey, if they guy can take an undersized, under-talented Swiss team from being a ‘regularly trounced’ team to being a consistent threat on the national stage, imagine what he can do with a TALENTED, undersized team!

  116. nathan says:

    Cactus,

    Tencer’s mouth moves faster than his brain. St@uffer was softening the ground just in case the Oilers went another way (doubt Katz, Lowe, Tambi, MacT, or Stu gave St@uffer any clues) and sees no need to cover himself like Tencer. St@uffer will just repeat what he said before. He had no definite source which way they were going.

    Management has 2 options with that final scout meeting. If the scout’s advice is unanimous and if BPA is not close and if they are not overly concerned about the KHL cap factor down the road and if late leaks are not a concern, they may choose to confirm their choice right there. Otherwise they thank the scouts for their great work.

    The only guy that comes out looking like he is tied in is Matty who got thrown that 10 minute heads-up.

  117. copperblueandwhite says:

    Lowetide:
    Well it’s pronounced Judge-rrr Care-ah from what I’m told. I think there’s a chance he ends up being called Jar Jar Care-ah.

    Let’s hope he makes the team….Pierre Maguire will have a tough time with Judgie or Carrie

  118. regwald says:

    nathan,

    And in fact, Tencer even tweeted that it was a guess, with no inside information re: Murray over Yakupov.

  119. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Its almost like trading Gilbert for a LH shut down Dman was a bad idea.

    That trade makes less and less sense everyday that they don’t pick up a right D just like T. Gibs.

    It really makes you wonder if there wasn’t a group of forwards they could cobble together to get N. Schultz.

  120. nathan says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Justin Schultz is going to Toronto. If I can prove tampering I’d ask for JVR as compensation. That trade is Exhibit A.

  121. nathan says:

    LT, Was Fedun not eligible for that list?

  122. nathan says:

    regwald,

    Exactly, But unlike St@ffer he did not have the sense to fall back on that before shutting his yap.

  123. Lowetide says:

    Nathan: Yes. If he can come back and play at a high level again he’ll be on the Xmas edition. I’m a big fan of Fedun, made even moreso after meeting him. What a gentleman.

  124. Traktor says:

    Two questions:

    Does anyone know when the prospect camp takes place?

    Does anyone know when we can officially talk to Schultz? Is it today 10 PM Edmonton time?

  125. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    nathan:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Justin Schultzis going to Toronto. If I can prove tampering I’d ask for JVR as compensation. That trade is Exhibit A.

    that trade definitely puts the gears to Burke to chase Schultz… but I’m hopeful it’s not a fait accompli (yet anyway).

    how would the league actually go about punishing both parties if they talked early? nullify the deal, or what…

    at the end of the day… if he wants to go to Tor. that’s his choice and there’s not much we can do about it.

  126. jonrmcleod says:

    If the Penguins land both Parise and Suter, are they the new Miami Heat?

  127. Lowetide says:

    Traktor:
    Two questions:

    Does anyone know when the prospect camp takes place?

    Does anyone know when we can officially talk to Schultz? Is it today 10 PM Edmonton time?

    I think it starts Monday or Tuesday. Early next week I know that, right away here.

  128. spoiler says:

    Traktor:
    Two questions:

    Does anyone know when the prospect camp takes place?

    Does anyone know when we can officially talk to Schultz? Is it today 10 PM Edmonton time?

    He won’t take offers till Wednesday apparently.

  129. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    There are some real projects from yesterday there. If the list is weighted to upside I’d include Fedun. But yes it will be easier to rate him objectively next time. And Moroz at #20 looks like he signed Horcoff’s contract yesterday.

  130. nathan says:

    “that trade definitely puts the gears to Burke to chase Schultz”

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Unless he made the trade because he know that Schutlz is coming. Or worse yet as a pre-req to the signing. There may be no tampering or proof of same but the Ducks already had one team in mind before that trade.

  131. VOR says:

    Re: Schultz,

    According to Bob MacKenzie teams can talk to him at 10 PM local time tonight but he is going to be meeting his agent and manager Tuesday morning to decide what they want to do and then taking offers Wednesday. (That last part is a little unclear, it is possible they want offers before Tuesday and will begin serious negotations on Wednesday.)

  132. spoiler says:

    VOR:
    Re: Schultz,

    According to Bob MacKenzie teams can talk to him at 10 PM local time tonight but he is going to be meeting his agent and manager Tuesday morning to decide what they want to do and then taking offers Wednesday. (That last part is a little unclear, it is possible they want offers before Tuesday and will begin serious negotations on Wednesday.)

    He can’t sign till July 1 in any case.

    The part I don’t get is the “serious negotiations”. I mean everybody has to offer a standard ELC, so why doesn’t he just tell us who he wants to play for already? Is this just to give everything a veneer of fairness? Does he really have more than one team in mind?

  133. DSF says:

    nathan:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Justin Schultzis going to Toronto. If I can prove tampering I’d ask for JVR as compensation. That trade is Exhibit A.

    Both Burke and Holmgren say they’ve been talking about that exact trade since mid season but just finally decided to pull the trigger last night.

  134. PDO says:

    Lowetide: C-

    Please no. Please please no.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCk3-RVMy4E

    He has a phenomenal shot, but check how he scores… down the off wing. Over and over again. Playing him at LW is a huge mistake, it neutralizes one of the best weapons he has.

  135. nathan says:

    “The part I don’t get is the “serious negotiations”. I mean everybody has to offer a standard ELC, so why doesn’t he just tell us who he wants to play for already”

    spoiler,

    Who they need to trade out before he signs if they want to catch Toronto.

  136. spoiler says:

    Mama mia. Those Italians belt out their anthem with gusto.

  137. PDO says:

    I don’t have permission to edit my own post… I meant to quote this:

    Lowetide: I’d go this (C-L-R)

    Gagner-Hall-Hemsky
    Nuge-Yakupov-Eberle

    and get as much soft minutes matchup as I could for the #2 line.

  138. regwald says:

    Not that he’s the most relevant source, but I did see this come across twitter this morning.

    Stan Fischler ‏@StanFischler

    The future of Justin Schultz could have #Toronto as his next stop. That’s my call

  139. blackdog says:

    Hey LT where’s Petry on your list? Shouldn’t he be on it?

  140. spoiler says:

    PDO: Please no.Please please no.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCk3-RVMy4E

    He has a phenomenal shot, but check how he scores… down the off wing.Over and over again.Playing him at LW is a huge mistake, it neutralizes one of the best weapons he has.

    Eberle has played the left side plenty before. He’s played LD on the PP too. He can move over.

  141. blackdog says:

    I think I’d prefer Garrison but what are the chances they can sign him? Pretty low I think.

    I’d make that trade for Yandle. I like MPS, heck I like Gagner too but as has been noted Yandle murders the softs. Sure its the softs but if you have a guy who can tear them apart then that player is worthwhile.

    Its like Vanek the year they offer sheeted him. Absolutely destroyed the softs. Would you prefer a guy who murders the toughs? Of course. But a guy who can move the puck to the forwards and gives the Oilers a serious edge in certain matchups? Nothing wrong with that.

  142. nathan says:

    DSF,

    Trade talk predated any tampering doesn’t disprove tampering any more than it proves Burke finally knew he could do the trade.

    In fairness it could be just the window closing on that trade and Burke liking the odds on closing Schultz.

  143. Lowetide says:

    blackdog:
    Hey LT where’s Petry on your list? Shouldn’t he be on it?

    lol. I still giggle.

  144. Lowetide says:

    PDO: Okay, we keep Yakupov on RW. Who plays LW on the 2line?

  145. jonrmcleod says:

    OK, after reading Oilers blogs and tweets, I think I have this all figured out…

    If the Oilers make a good draft pick, Stu chose the player OR Stu was overruled by Tambellini who was overruled by MacT OR Stu was overruled by Tambellini who was overruled by MacT who was overruled by Lowe who was overruled by Katz.

    If the Oilers make a bad draft pick, Stu was overruled by Tambellini OR Stu was overruled by Tambellini who was overruled by MacT who was overruled by Lowe.

    Or, some conspiracy theorists suggest that the scouts picked Murray but was overruled by management. But, of course, that must have been due to MacT’s influence.

  146. PDO says:

    blackdog:
    I think I’d prefer Garrison but what are the chances they can sign him? Pretty low I think.

    I’d make that trade for Yandle. I like MPS, heck I like Gagner too but as has been noted Yandle murders the softs. Sure its the softs but if you have a guy who can tear them apart then that player is worthwhile.

    Its like Vanek the year they offer sheeted him. Absolutely destroyed the softs. Would you prefer a guy who murders the toughs? Of course. But a guy who can move the puck to the forwards and gives the Oilers a serious edge in certain matchups? Nothing wrong with that.

    I’d agree with this take as well… I’d make that trade and then make a big effort trying to sign Jokinen to a stop-gap deal.

  147. PDO says:

    Lowetide:
    PDO: Okay, we keep Yakupov on RW. Who plays LW on the 2line?

    With no trades?

    Hall – Gagner – Hemsky
    Hartikainen – RNH – Eberle
    Smyth – Horcoff – Yakupov

    I’d prefer someone like Kulemin in Smyth’s spot though.

  148. nathan says:

    Just to confirm that the Ducks saw no issues until they tried to close to play him after the college season.

    http://www.kfan.com/player/?mid=22124724&station=KFXN-FM&program_id=KFAN_Common.xml&program_name=podcast

    “Lot of people asking me about Justin Schultz. What happened today (withdrawing from school) is a formality. Schultz has been playing hardball from Anaheim since they thought they were signing him at the end of the year. Really at the end of the regular season they thought they were putting him in the lineup. Schultz is a Wisconsin defenseman.”

    “I think somebody has gotten to Schultz, and told him ‘come here, come here.’ And I think that we’ll know who that team is, come July 1 wherever he signs. And that’s why I don’t think the Wild have a chance with him. Of course the Wild would be interested in someone like him.”

    “But he has his mind set on going to one specific team right now. And whatever that team is, I guarantee you the Anaheim Ducks will go after them with a tampering charge, because the Anaheim Ducks have been building that case for the last couple of months. They have all sorts of e-mails from him basically saying, ‘I’m coming there, I’m coming there,’ and suddenly, for some reason, he’s not coming there.”-Michael Russo on KFAN 5/15/12

  149. jonrmcleod says:

    PDO,

    So Paajarvi doesn’t make the team? With no trades, I guess it’s either him or Hartikainen. But I think there’s a good chance Gagner is traded.

  150. oilersfan says:

    Lowetide

    There is no way Musil and Simpson should be ahead of Teubert. They are just higher because they are newer.

    Anyways, can any of you advanced stats guys take a look at Paul Martin? Word is if Pittsburgh gets Suter he will be available, likely for a Michalek like return. (that is, not much)

  151. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    blackdog:
    Hey LT where’s Petry on your list? Shouldn’t he be on it?

    Seems to be in the same boat as Paajarvi… a full season in the NHL puts you past the “prospect” gambit.

    seems reasonable, though, I’m not convinced Paajarvi will be full-blown NHL again this year and if he had a decent NHL D corps I’m not sure where Petry would fit in, but he was really good last year for what he was.

  152. PDO says:

    jonrmcleod:
    PDO,

    So Paajarvi doesn’t make the team? With no trades, I guess it’s either him or Hartikainen. But I think there’s a good chance Gagner is traded.

    Right now, I’d have Paajarvi as the #1 RW in OKC until he proves otherwise.

    I think he’s trade bait though, so that’s probably impacting the way I’m looking at things too.

  153. oilersfan says:

    Woodguy

    Give it up on Garrison. He is a Canucks fan, so are his parents. He is going there, we don’t have a chance.

    Besides, how much offense do you think he puts up without Brian Campbell? I bet less than half..

  154. Lowetide says:

    So we’re putting the kid with Horcoff? I’ll defend Horcoff to the gates of hell but man he was having a time keeping up last season. Are we sure? I know he was mentor to Hall and Eberle in 10-11 but that was 2 years ago and our friend Horc seems to have lost a step. Another step.

  155. nathan says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    you do know blackdog was joking. just checking.

    It’s a personal list. Moroz will get past Finn much easier than Horcoff gets past his contract.

  156. Rondo says:

    Why did Oilers draft Erik Gustafsson #93.

    Does anyone know anything about him?

    Moroz at #32 makes sense tome, he is a 4th line player for the Kings and contributed quite a bit for the amount of ice time.

    Oilers were not going to pick another small winger at 32 and probably thought they have better D in their organization than say Finn

  157. DSF says:

    nathan:
    DSF,

    Trade talk predated any tampering doesn’t disprove tampering any more than it proves Burke finally knew he could do the trade.

    In fairness it could be just the window closing on that trade and Burke liking the odds on closing Schultz.

    Yeah, could be but I certainly don’t think you can draw any straight lines between the trade and Schultz.

    You have to wonder if the tampering might have more to do with Gardiner talking to Schultz not the Leafs’ brass.

  158. Lowetide says:

    Summer Camp news here
    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=635996

    Interesting Curtis Hamilton is on the list. Must be because of the injury,

  159. PDO says:

    Lowetide:
    So we’re putting the kid with Horcoff? I’ll defend Horcoff to the gates of hell but man he was having a time keeping up last season. Are we sure? I know he was mentor to Hall and Eberle in 10-11 but that was 2 years ago and our friend Horc seems to have lost a step. Another step.

    Yeah, I’d say he’s with Horcoff for now… ease the defensive responsibility you ask of him, and hopefully find a winger who he can get creative with.

  160. DSF says:

    oilersfan:
    Woodguy

    Give it up on Garrison. He is a Canucks fan, so are his parents. He is going there, we don’t have a chance.

    Besides, how much offense do you think he puts up without Brian Campbell? I bet less than half..

    Florida scored 203 goals last season…Vancouver scored 249.

    You would have to think playing with a more offensively gifted team would preclude his offence from falling off a cliff.

  161. Lowetide says:

    Rondo:
    Why did Oilers draft Erik Gustafsson #93.

    Does anyone know anything about him?

    I updated his draft post awhile ago and did a long search with little result. He’s a friend of Landeskog’s and Stu MacGregor likes him. I wonder if he might come over. He is on the development camp list.

  162. nathan says:

    DSF,

    If I’m betting that trade shifts the odds on where he lands.

  163. bookje says:

    Lowetide:
    So we’re putting the kid with Horcoff? I’ll defend Horcoff to the gates of hell but man he was having a time keeping up last season. Are we sure? I know he was mentor to Hall and Eberle in 10-11 but that was 2 years ago and our friend Horc seems to have lost a step. Another step.

    LT- you are a pretty reasonable guy normally, but you have to stop it with the Horcoff bashing. Why do you hate the guy so much?

  164. spoiler says:

    Pretty decent match of footie so far.

  165. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Horcoff and other centres:

    who else can play that third C? Belanger, Lander….

    Pick a boat anchor: either they are a step slow (Horcoff), cursed by Loki (Belanger), or bleeding chances the other way (Lander)

    This situation makes me wish we never let Brule go for nothing.

  166. nathan says:

    bookje,

    He’s just starting. When Horcoff gets parked in the AHL, he’ll be #20 on his prospect list.

  167. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    nathan:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    you do know blackdog was joking. just checking.

    It’s a personal list. Moroz will get past Finnmuch easier than Horcoff gets past his contract.

    is my face red….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK9ZFhPodZ8

  168. slopitch says:

    Well I caught the first pick and just caught up now. Thanks for all the work LT. It’s a good list.

    I read all the Moroz hate. When MBS says things like “he is on the upward swing of his development curve” I have a hard time arguing it. One would have to watch more games because it’s not an easy numbers problem to solve. It’s also too early to judge a draft. The variable of development has too much incomplete info. I guess as fans all we can do is hope but it doesn’t appear they made a lot of smart bets.

    I’d take Yandle. That’s a steep price though. I think we could do better. Maybe target a player on the Rangers?

    Justin Schultz is key. If we can get him, adding another piece seems plausible. Getting 2 is a more challenging task. Piss of Burke and Gillis.

    If we can get these defenders, the Oilers are going to be a very hard team to beat by the end of next season. Hopefully the early results are enough to keep them in the playoff race.

  169. nathan says:

    “Staples has an article up at COH saying someone on the draft floor told an NHL team they would have to beat EDM’s offer of Gagner and Paajarvi for Yandle.”

    Lowetide,

    ~ Burke? And he’ll send the Staples link to Schult’z agent at midnight ~

  170. DSF says:

    Just a reminder than RFA qualifying offers must be submitted by tomorrow.

    No word on a Gagner extension?

  171. DSF says:

    nathan:
    DSF,

    If I’m betting that trade shifts the odds on where he lands.

    Agree…certainly frees up a spot.

  172. nathan says:

    DSF,

    MacT will remember. Tallon’s the one to worry about.

  173. Lowetide says:

    DSF:
    Just a reminder than RFA qualifying offers must be submitted by tomorrow.

    No word on a Gagner extension?

    lol. Either they extend it to Gagner or Tambelllini’s working at Costco. I wonder how many Oiler fans would take time consider the which is the better option?

  174. nathan says:

    “This situation makes me wish we never let Brule go for nothing.”

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Brule may be available July 1 for a mere $1.85M per year. Who would have offered anything for a year of that?

    http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/19/agent-coyotes-wont-qualify-brule-set-to-become-ufa/

  175. DSF says:

    Lowetide: lol. Either they extend it to Gagner or Tambelllini’s working at Costco. I wonder how many Oiler fans would take time consider the which is the better option?

    I just hope they don’t hire him as the guy who checks your cart at the door…you’d never get out of there.

  176. Lowetide says:

    DSF: I just hope they don’t hire him as the guy who checks your cart at the door…you’d never get out of there.

    Can you IMAGINE asking Tambellini about an option in say the Shoppers Drug Mart aisle? “Should I suggest the drowsy or non drowsy? He doesn’t look rich, maybe I should tell him you save by purchasing the bigger bottle? Then again, the memo from head office said we had too many small bottles. Wait that was Tylenol. Where was I?”

  177. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    Maybe at Rexall.

  178. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    nathan:
    “This situation makes me wish we never let Brule go for nothing.”

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Brule may be available July 1 for a mere $1.85M per year.

    http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/19/agent-coyotes-wont-qualify-brule-set-to-become-ufa/

    Interesting…

    well, that’s basically what we are paying Belanger. If we need an extra C with some grit and speed he might be a good option. Of course, the guy’s got lots of problems and the gamble always looks different when you’ve already spent the money to have the guy on your 50 man roster… going out cold to re-acquire him might look distasteful… and the yotes not re-upping him isn’t a great sign…

    I wonder if a phone call to check his head space might be in order.

  179. Captain Obvious says:

    So if everyone, even those who like the Moroz pick, thinks the Russian is better than Moroz, why did he fall to the fourth round?

    It’s one thing for a sleeper pick like Gernat to emerge the following year. However, it doesn’t make sense to me that sleeper picks can be identified the day after. If he is so good why did 30 teams pass on him for three straight rounds?

  180. Lowetide says:

    Captain Obvious:
    So if everyone, even those who like the Moroz pick, thinks the Russian is better than Moroz, why did he fall to the fourth round?

    It’s one thing for a sleeper pick like Gernat to emerge the following year.However, it doesn’t make sense to me that sleeper picks can be identified the day after.If he is so good why did 30 teams pass on him for three straight rounds?

    I suspect the answer is that some teams like the Oilers and Rangers draft for need and then others like Nashville, Montreal and Detroit take BPA. The clubs with the correct plan–or at least what I think is the best plan–didn’t get to him before EDM found their coke machines.

  181. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Captain Obvious:
    So if everyone, even those who like the Moroz pick, thinks the Russian is better than Moroz, why did he fall to the fourth round?

    It’s one thing for a sleeper pick like Gernat to emerge the following year.However, it doesn’t make sense to me that sleeper picks can be identified the day after.If he is so good why did 30 teams pass on him for three straight rounds?

    The other side of that coin is why did Calgary take Jank at 21 or the Oil take Moroz at 32 or Winnipeg take Mark Scheifele at 7 last year, etc. etc.

    as much as the combined consensus scouting forces the issue… people still make choices that seem irrational

  182. gd says:

    TO makes no sense anymore for Schultz, they just spent the 5th pick on the best puck moving Dman in the draft, and they already have Gardiner and Phaneuf (who is not going to give up his ice time easily), if Van signs Garrison, than they make no sense for him.

    To me it is between us and the Rangers and he had better hope that Del Zotto is getting moved and he is better than Erixon to go there.

  183. Cactus says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Can one of Smid, N. Schultz, Sutton and Whitney play on the right?… otherwise someone’s got to go to fit those guys in, right?

    Its almost like trading Gilbert for a LH shut down Dman was a bad idea.

    Jesus wept.

    Allegedly, N. Schultz can play both sides. Not saying that you don’t want a true RH D, but that’s something.

    Like Spoiler, I still maintain there was something going on there. Trade out of the blue and Gilbert just happens to end up in his home state. For all we can say about Tambellini and co., they have yet to do something that actually harms the team going forward.

  184. Bruce McCurdy says:

    re: Oilers summer camp, it starts Wednesday & runs right through the following Monday. June 27 -July 2.

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=635996

  185. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    Sorry to disappoint.

    http://www.windsorstar.com/sports/Wings+change+draft+strategy/6820626/story.html

    Long a proponent of always taking the most skilled player, Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill said size is now becoming more important to Detroit heading into Friday’s first round of the NHL draft in Pittsburgh…

    “Our skill level is down, so we have to get bigger. The playoffs proved that. It’s a big-man’s game now.”…

    Nill said the Wings no longer have the luxury of compiling enough talent to out-skill teams.

    “The new CBA has leveled the playing field for all of us,” Nill said.

    “We all have our core group of five or six players making five or six million and you have to build around that. It’s about filling in holes in your lineup now and drafting for needs….

    The days of a team having way more skill players than other teams are over.

    “The cap doesn’t allow it, so you have to get bigger and stronger.”

    Nill said rule changes and styles have also forced the Wings to re-examine things…

    Now, with no red-line, you can throw the puck up the ice, tip it in and chase it…

    “You really are drafting for needs, especially in a draft like this one,” said Nill, who offered the strength of this draft is defencemen.

  186. Ryan says:

    Lowetide, like yourself, I’m a cheap bastard. That being said… I share the same sentiments towards yourself that you have for SMB. I’d definitely consider it an honor to buy you a beer!
    You’ve singled-handedly made the Fall for Hall, Luge for Nuge, and Fail for Nail bearable (though you never advocated for such). After all your work in tracking some pretty piss-poor prospects, I’d have to say even with the wasted #2 pick, that’s a pretty nice crop of prospects.
    As for this recent draft, there’s only one thing that really matters. The Oilers didn’t screw up the first pick. Period, end of story.

  187. Traktor says:

    Nice find Nathan!

  188. nathan says:

    Traktor,

    I was looking for the Holland quote about need someone posted the other day and ran smack into that. It’s like he channeled all the old arguments about the Detroit way being the result of that HOF core.

  189. Lowetide says:

    Wow. THAT is news. Thanks Nathan, hadn’t seen it.

  190. nathan says:

    Lowetide,

    Re; the red line.

    “The unintended consequence of some rule changes aimed at increasing the speed and offence in the game have also eliminated the need for certain skill elements”

    And good luck with the power play opportunities for the skilled guys since the whistles got swallowed last year.

  191. Captain Obvious says:

    nathan,

    Detroit still took Martin Frk who fits the BPA profile with their second round pick. I don’t know anything about the rest of the guys.

    I think Frk is a steal there. He played well in the world juniors as a 16 year old. I believe he was slated around the top 10 before he had a fairly severe concussion.

  192. nathan says:

    Captain Obvious,

    BPA = Best _______ player available? Best consensus skill upside player available?

    They did not have a first round pick.

  193. Lowetide says:

    Detroit’s last 3 picks aren’t coke machines, they’re MOUNTAIN MEN!

  194. nathan says:

    Lowetide:
    Detroit’s last 3 picks aren’t coke machines, they’re MOUNTAIN MEN!

    Lowetide,

    Mountain Dew Machines is a bit long, so we can say Pepsi Machines.

  195. russ99 says:

    LT: you took the words out of my mouth re: Yakupov and Horcoff…

    As with other posts this weekend, I’m a big fan of the Hemmer and Nail line:

    Hemsky, Hall, Yakupov.

    Then the first is a LW, RNH and Eberle. That could be Hartikainen or Paajarvi, but may even be Gagner if he’s not dealt.

    I’d also prefer a new 3rd line of experieced FA’s and a Belanger trade/Horcoff amnesty and which ever one stays centering the other winger and Jones.

    The further we go, the moremitmlooks like Smyth won’t be back, barring a trade of wingers.

  196. spoiler says:

    nathan: Lowetide, Sorry to disappoint.http://www.windsorstar.com/sports/Wings+change+draft+strategy/6820626/story.htmlLong a proponent of always taking the most skilled player, Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill said size is now becoming more important to Detroit heading into Friday’s first round of the NHL draft in Pittsburgh… “Our skill level is down, so we have to get bigger. The playoffs proved that. It’s a big-man’s game now.”…Nill said the Wings no longer have the luxury of compiling enough talent to out-skill teams.“The new CBA has leveled the playing field for all of us,” Nill said.“We all have our core group of five or six players making five or six million and you have to build around that. It’s about filling in holes in your lineup now and drafting for needs….The days of a team having way more skill players than other teams are over.“The cap doesn’t allow it, so you have to get bigger and stronger.”Nill said rule changes and styles have also forced the Wings to re-examine things…Now, with no red-line, you can throw the puck up the ice, tip it in and chase it…“You really are drafting for needs, especially in a draft like this one,” said Nill, who offered the strength of this draft is defencemen.

    Thank you Nathan.

    The other quote was from Holland, when he stated they would pick a player a round early if they needed to be sure they got him.

    This was a weak draft for talent. Might as well draft for size. They did the talent thing the last two drafts.

    From Terry Jones today:

    With the Oilers expected to introduced their next head coach here as soon as Monday, Krueger was a very interested observer of this draft for obvious reasons and very much liked the Oilers drafting Nail Yakupov for best-player-available upside rather than for need on defence.

    And that tells you something about him.

    “Nail is another unique, highly skilled player with a very aggressive attacking game — an exciting and dynamic acquisition for any coaching staff,” said Krueger who has his ideas on how he’d coach the team going forward.

    “A head coach must develop a strategy to win that is in line with the tools and skill level at his disposal. If you have offensive skill you can attack, if not, rely on defence and counter-punching. We would take our power-play foundation and attacking principles into our five-on-five game,” is how he phrased it to your correspondent.

    As associate coach to Tom Renney with the Oilers last year, Krueger took over the power play. The Oilers ended up third at 20.6% after being 27th at 14.5% the year before. If he can do that five on five, the Oilers are in the playoffs.

    He also goes on to say that Stu has made the gambles. It’s now Tambo’s turn to obtain some actual players, by trade or FA.

  197. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: Can you IMAGINE asking Tambellini about an option in say the Shoppers Drug Mart aisle? “Should I suggest the drowsy or non drowsy? He doesn’t look rich, maybe I should tell him you save by purchasing the bigger bottle? Then again, the memo from head office said we had too many small bottles. Wait that was Tylenol. Where was I?”

    If someone asked him the difference between generic and name brand pain relievers he might just stop breathing.

  198. spoiler says:

    I have a comment sucked into moderation purgatory.

  199. Lowetide says:

    spOILer: Up now.

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