A LITTLE MORE ON KHAIRA

The Edmonton Oilers selected big forward Jijhar Khaira at the 2012 entry draft. We looked at him here, took about 20 minutes for the comments section to turn him into ‘Jar Jar’ and we found out that there’s a player here.

With the selections outside the first round, I like to collect info a couple of weeks after the draft so we can better understand the reasoning behind the selection. I’ll be doing this for everyone not named Yakupov from this most recent draft, so you can expect to see a few of these over the rest of the summer.

This is Khaira with his Dad (a truck driving man). Khaira the younger is 6.03 and 200 pounds and is slated to play for Michigan Tech (NCAA) in the fall. Former Huskies include Hall of Famer Tony Esposito and current Edmonton Oiler Andy Sutton.

The best profile I’ve read so far came via a Bruce McCurdy Cult of Hockey item that highlighted our own “Crazy Coach” Ben Berland. Berland followed his growth–literally–as a hockey player and gives a very nice thumbnail sketch of Khaira the player:

  • Berland: Khaira was now 6’2”, and a runaway freight train.  His real strength is on the fore check, in which he uses both his size and his skating ability to the max.  Although he doesn’t possess incredible foot speed, his read and react skills are excellent, which can be an exceptional hockey skill to have (easier to teach foot speed than read and react particularly with older players). Wide track skater that reminds me of Kent Nilsson (for all you old timers out there), or Milan Lucic. Has good stickhandling skills and prefers to play the role of playmaker more than shooter.  Shooting is excellent, and will shoot when needed, but prefers the pass.

Redline Report identified Khaira as a player of interest, and their scouting report echoed Berland:

  • Redline: At Red Line, we believe this kid could be the biggest/best sleeper of the entire draft. This kid is big, mean, aggressive, nasty, and guess what… he can score too. Does the dirty work in the corners, bangs bodies and wins battles, and loves to initiate heavy contact. Powerful stride with great balance and gets leverage on his hits. Has surprisingly soft hands and puck skills with playmaking ability. Creates lots of space for smaller teammates and makes everyone braver. Very raw defensively.

There are plenty of articles online about Khaira, he appears to be a hard working, intelligent young man without an ounce of entitlement. I suspect it’ll be easy to cheer for him.

NHLE: 82, 6-11-17

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68 Responses to "A LITTLE MORE ON KHAIRA"

  1. steveisfunny says:

    This kid intrigues me more than any other person from draft, maybe because I will never watch his junior league but I like his size and seems to have right attitude

  2. striatic says:

    “Khaira the younger is 6.03 and 200 pounds”

    “Khaira was now 6’2”, and a runaway freight train.”

    ?

  3. Lowetide says:

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476915

    Mr. Berland was talking about the player and his growth to that point. Oilers website has him 6.03, 198, I’ve read 6.03, 200. So he’s in the range.

  4. jp says:

    striatic:
    “Khaira the younger is 6.03 and 200 pounds”

    “Khaira was now 6’2”, and a runaway freight train.”

    ?

    I believe he is currently 6’4″.

  5. Dale says:

    I’ll be following this young man–great attitude, great physical attributes. If this kid doesn’t reach the Oilers’ roster, it won’t be for lack of trying.

  6. ASkoreyko says:

    jp: Jijhar Khaira

    His father is 6’4″. I think there is the hope that he will continue to grow ;).

    http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Province+Sunday+Sports+Jujhar+Khaira+grown+ready+play/6795100/story.html

    I like this pick, the kid says the right things and having a player described as both “Mean” and “Nasty” can never be a bad thing. Were those same adjectives ever used to describe a player like JFJ? It’s one thing to be an effective hitter/skatter, its another to actually want to do it all the time. Also growing up in the area that he did he will be well aware of the Lucic comps for him, so hopefully that will further reinforce what type of player he wants/needs to be.

    The Oilers need a lot more “Nasty” in my opinion.

  7. jp says:

    ASkoreyko,

    Yeah, regardless of his exact current size, the kid sure looks to have some really nice physical tools, some skill, and the mindset to keep improving. Nasty and mean sure don’t hurt either!

    The article and his coach in the video above both make a strong point of his hard work and determination. Here’s hoping he keeps it up and turns out to be a 3rd round steal. There certainly is a need for this player type in the lineup.

  8. Wolfie says:

    I remember reading that Vancouver Province article prior to the draft and kind of forgot about him. When the Oilers selected him it took me a second to realize this was the kid. I kind of thought he would be on Vancouver’s list but I’m glad the Oilers got to him first.

    Some of the descriptions look very promising.

  9. jonrmcleod says:

    We all know that the Oilers (and probably every other team) are looking for the next Lucic. Is Khaira the most likely (though still a long-shot) of the recent Oiler draft picks to turn into that type of player? Those two evaluations above do give me a little hope.

  10. Woodguy says:

    Oops, new thread.

    repost:

    Just listened to the Vollman segment. Great stuff.

    So those of us who bitched about the bottom six are vindicated a bit. Nice to see.

    Bra and Panties just tweeted this:

    Tracy ‏@TreenasOil

    Oilers talking with Habs Oilers interested in Josh Georges

    I’d give up a tidy little pile to get Georges.

    Wonder what it would take to get Georges and Pacioretty?

    Yak + Marincin?

  11. Woodguy says:

    A lot of the Oilers in the system are giving good reviews of the new development system.

    Hopefully they can help this kid too.

    Is there a limit on contract between the Oilers and NCAA kids due the ridiculous NCAA rules?

    The NCAA’s slogan should be:

    “MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE INVOLVED IN COLLEGE SPORTS MAKES A PILE OF MONEY, EXCEPT THE ATHLETES”

  12. Lowetide says:

    Gorges and Pacioretty might actually be perfect. Seriously. Even DSF couldn’t bitch about those guys! Vollman’s chart I think gives us a perfect view of what was wrong with last year’s team.

    And of course they’re all coming back!

  13. gogliano says:

    One of my favorite picks from the draft. Smart kid with a good attitude. But he also had a huge growth spurt and might keep growing. Entirely possible he never puts it all together but way more potential here than most third rounders

  14. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    Gorges and Pacioretty might actually be perfect. Seriously. Even DSF couldn’t bitch about those guys! Vollman’s chart I think gives us a perfect view of what was wrong with last year’s team.

    And of course they’re all coming back!

    I’m sure I could think of something :)

    Pretty sure it would take one of the kids to get Pacioretty out of Montreal and, considering Gorges was +14 on a team that finished with a goal differential of -14, it might take two.

    Would be perfect additions though.

    That 2007 draft just keeps on giving for some teams.

  15. TheOtherJohn says:

    Calgary is desperate to refill empty prospect cupboard. Tell Calgary you can have Gagner and Hamilton or ANA #2 for Boumeester or Hamilton and Ana #2 for Buler

  16. TheOtherJohn says:

    LT

    How has the MBS 1st draft tracked: 2008? Because to be the MBS he has had to pull some Bergeron, Erickson, Hamonic or Spurgeon out of the 2nd/3rd round . God knows 2007 was a dry hole

  17. DSF says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    LT

    How has the MBS 1st draft tracked: 2008? Because to be the MBShe has had to pull some Bergeron, Erickson, Hamonic or Spurgeon out of the 2nd/3rd round . God knows 2007 was a dry hole

    Hartikainen might make it….6th round.

  18. Lowetide says:

    TOJ: MBS didn’t have a 2nd or a 3rd in 2008. Eberle and then later Motin, Cornet and Hartikainen. The Penner offer sheet ripped a hole in that draft. Still, Eberle was a clear winner. Hartikainen could be a big help.

  19. TheOtherJohn says:

    Dryhole 2008? So how was the 2009 draft in solidifying MBS’s reputation as the Master of the draft?

    I am sure we will hit a place where his rep for producing NHL players late is made because once we pull Hall and RNH out of the equation, it’s a little tougher to see

  20. DSF says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Dryhole 2008? So how was the 2009 draft in solidifying MBS’s reputation as the Master of the draft?

    I am sure we will hit a place where his rep for producing NHL players late is made because once we pull Hall and RNH out of the equation, it’s a little tougher to see

    the 2009 draft could be the one that sinks his reputation.

    He picked Paajarvi at #10 and left the following on the board.

    Ryan Ellis
    Dimitri Kulkov
    Peter Holland
    Nick Leddy
    David Rundblad
    Louis Leblanc
    Chris Kreider
    Markus Johanssen
    Simon Depres
    Ryan O’Reilly
    Kyle Clifford

    All tracking very well.

  21. stevezie says:

    DSF,

    While I think MPS is still tracking ahead of some of those guys, clearly he’s not at the top of that list. Still not enough to destroy a rep though, that takes blown picks.

    Everything outside the draft is a crap-shoot. I would much rather have Kulikov or O’Reilly, but getting an NHL player is not a blown pick.

  22. Traktor says:

    DSF: the 2009 draft could be the one that sinks his reputation.

    He picked Paajarvi at #10 and left the following on the board.

    Ryan Ellis

    Peter Holland
    Nick Leddy
    David Rundblad
    Louis Leblanc
    Chris Kreider
    Markus Johanssen
    Simon Depres
    Dimitri Kulikov
    Kyle Clifford
    Ryan O’reilly

    All tracking very well.

    Most of those players aren’t even ahead of MPS.

    I would rate your list of players as:

    1. Ryan O’Reilly
    2. Dimitri Kulikov
    3. The rest

    Too early to say who is the best player after O’Reilly and Kulikov but with MPS’ size and speed he is going to receive a lot of opportunity this season.

  23. DSF says:

    stevezie:
    DSF,

    While I think MPS is still tracking ahead of some of those guys, clearly he’s not at the top of that list.Still not enough to destroy a rep though, that takes blown picks.

    Everything outside the draft is a crap-shoot. I would much rather have Kulikov or O’Reilly, but getting an NHL player is not a blown pick.

    Well, at this point Paajarvi is not an NHL player.

    If he turns out not to be, that would be a blown pick…especially at #10 overall.

    Not sure why you wouldn’t include Nick Leddy who is a defenseman that has outscored Paajarvi in the NHL and Marcus Johanssen,, a 6’2″ 210 centre who has outscored Paajarvi thus far.

    Paajarvi: 17G 42P
    Johanssen: 27G 73P.

    Looks like Stu picked the wrong Swede.

  24. Lowetide says:

    I think we’ll be able to put the 2008 draft to bed this time next season. If Hartikainen doesn’t spend 40+ games with the NHL team–or if he wins a job but can’t keep it–then the 2008 draft will be Eberle and nothing else.

    2009? I think we have at least two years to go, just based on how #10 and #40 have been used so far in North America. Paajarvi imo is a pretty talented guy to be calling a draft failure, especially this early.

  25. DSF says:

    Traktor: Most of those players aren’t even ahead of MPS.

    I would rate your list of players as:

    1. Ryan O’Reilly
    2. Dimitri Kulikov
    3. The rest

    Too early to say who is the best player after O’Reilly and Kulikov but with MPS’ size and speed he is going to receive a lot of opportunity this season.

    Johanssen and Leddy have already passed Pajaarvi in the fast lane and considering Clifford is a third/fourth line banger, he also would fit the Oilers needs much better.

    Chris Kreider is a 6’3″ 225 winger with great wheels who strutted his stuff in the NHL playoffs.

    He’s my odds on favourite to win the Calder next season.

    It’s difficult to compare forwards and defensemen but I’d wager the Oilers would be much happier if they had Leddy, Rundblad or Simon Depres in the system.

  26. Traktor says:

    DSF:

    Paajarvi: 17G 42P
    Johanssen: 27G 73P.

    Looks like Stu picked the wrong Swede.

    MPS’ career high is 15 goals
    Johanssen’s career high is 14 goals.

    And MPS didn’t have Ovechkin on his wing for half the season either.

  27. Esim says:

    Are you all forgeting the Belanger tri-angle

  28. Traktor says:

    DSF: Johanssen and Leddy have already passed Pajaarvi in the fast lane and considering Clifford is a third/fourth line banger, he also would fit the Oilers needs much better.

    Chris Kreider is a 6’3″ 225 winger with great wheels who strutted his stuff in the NHL playoffs.

    He’s my odds on favourite to win the Calder next season.

    It’s difficult to compare forwards and defensemen but I’d wager the Oilers would be much happier if they had Leddy, Rundblad or Simon Depres in the system.

    I don’t think anyone on that list has lapped the competition. Next year a few of those players will have fallen off and few will have risen. We’ll probably be talking about some 3rd or 4th round pick that looks like a gem. We are just going into the 3rd round.. still 36 holes to be played out.

  29. gcw_rocks says:

    I would have felt a lot better about this pick if the Oilers had gobe BPA at 32. But by the time this kid was picked I was furious and bitter. I don’t ever expect to see this kid play an NHL game. Moroz will take his spot on the 4th line.

    If it will bring the Lowe reign of terror to an end, then I hope every pick after Yakupov tanks. The guy lost it in 2007 and there is no hope he gets it back.

  30. Ducey says:

    Nothing like a Canucks fan being critical of another team’s draft.

    How many players from the 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts are playing/ will play for the Canucks?

    One. Mason Raymond.

    Now that is some outstanding drafting.

  31. "Steve Smith" says:

    gcw_rocks,

    I’m not sure that an NHL front office exec has ever been fired because of late round picks not panning out. Which is fair enough, really.

  32. TheOtherJohn says:

    Sorry guys!

    Ducey you get that VCR ain’t picking where we are pickin right? Love to kick DSF in his package but they are pickin late and we are pickin early. We all willingly gave Stu McGregor the nickname “The Magnificient Bastard” for draft excellence. Surely it’s not predicated on Hartikannen playing 40 games 5 years out! If so, its a really thin draft success! 2 years in a row. So a pretty dry 07 draft, Eberle and possibly nada in 08.

    I shudder to ask about 2009! I keep hearing about the superlative picks just bubbling under the surface. Where are they? How far away are they? Because if they are not 50 games in the AHL away from the show we had better start making some trades or does anybody believe 2 rookies added to a 29th place team = the playoffs

    Do you think Stu MacGregor questions how he got his nickname?

  33. "Steve Smith" says:

    TheOtherJohn: Ducey you get that VCR ain’t picking where we are pickin right?

    A few days ago DSF proposed the metric “Most picks outside the top ten to have played 80 games in the NHL.” By his own metric (which counted most of the Canucks’ first round picks, while disregarding those of the Oilers), the Oilers had the better draft record (Eberle being the only pick from either team to meet the criteria).

  34. TheOtherJohn says:

    Steve

    Not sure anyone got the nickname as the “great one” for selecting Hall over Sequin and RNH over Landeskog. Arguable case in both instances that the other player is just as good, if not better. It’s the late miracles that leads to a nickname like that, we just haven’t seen the late picks emerge yet. A la Patrice Bergeron. As Burke says:Morgan Reilly was #1 on our list. Which means you better fire your scouts. And I like Morgan Reilly. a lot!,

  35. "Steve Smith" says:

    Anyway, the best available metric is looking at where players would go in a re-draft – it’s subjective, but it’s probably the best we have for recent drafts. Looking at picks outside of the top ten, is it fair to say that Eberle, Cornet, Hartikainen, and Roy would all go higher in a re-draft, with Motin, Hesketh, and Abney going lower? From the 2008-2009 drafts, that leaves Bendfield, Lander, Bigos, and Rajala going at roughly the same spot, which I’d say is fair (Bendfield and Rajala are non-entities at this point, but they were also picked late enough that that’s probably reasonable expectations).

    That’s more good picks than bad outside of the top ten, and of course in terms of actual impact one Eberle makes up for as many fifth round busts as you’d care to name.

  36. "Steve Smith" says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Steve

    Not sure anyone got the nickname as the “great one” for selecting Hall over Sequin and RNH over Landeskog.

    I’m sorry, I must have missed the part where I said anything even remotely resembling that.

    (I do like your idea of adorning Seguin’s uniform with rhinestones, though.)

  37. Lowetide says:

    TOJ: First, I don’t think “everyone” is calling him MBS, that’s a nickname given to him in the wake of Eberle’s success after he was drafted. I do believe he’s done an excellent job, mostly due to being risk averse in the 1st and early 2nd rounds.

    That’s me.

    MacGregor has his critics, and of course as you mention 2008 is 4 years old with only Eberle. I would suggest the lack of 2nd and 3rd rd picks (basically top 100 selections) is a factor. Some may not agree.

    2009 looks wonky right now because they kept Lander and shouldn’t have, and dicked around Paajarvi and shouldn’t have. The Hesketh-Abney picks were reach selections and we knew they day they were selected those players were unlikely to play.

    I think 2010′s arrows are good, 2011 looks good but it’s early and I do think 2012 is a “looking for Lucic” draft–and they did it early.

    Long story short–lots of good arrows.

    And if we disregard the 1st overalls, then Vancouver would be picking AHEAD of Edmonton in most seasons..

  38. TheOtherJohn says:

    Have no clue how anyone cut off line at top 10 pick. Nor have i ever heard anyone bright dispute :Hall/Sequin, RNH/Landeskog (LT guest this weekend sure put Landeskog ROY in perspective) that simply makes no sense. Have we defined an underperforming 1st round pick as the “Tuebert line”yet? Eberle is not a good pick he is an absolutely superlative pick!! : AND ? Hall,? RNH? Yak? Do not think so. So measurement is everyone else: Lander? Marincin? Bruce will correctly point out how Pitlick has played 3 years in 3 different leagues (great news, he can repeat AHL experience and throw up 75 pts in the AHL this year ) Hamilton is injured,A gain

    It’s just that the nickname MBS, which I completely and totally bought into, is surely based on superlative drafting in later rounds ….. not shooting fish in a barrel (our 1stOV). I Hope his nickname is compltely warranted. I do. Hope a ton of Oiler 2nd/3rd rounders play 150 games. Schools out, though

  39. G Money says:

    I get a little chill when I read “… loves to initiate heavy contact”.

  40. Lowetide says:

    TOJ: Seems you’ve married “Magnificent Bastard” to a lot of things like “brilliant late round picks that are now impact players.” I don’t think anyone has ever suggested same.

  41. Lowetide says:

    Oh, and one more thing. Colten Teubert wasn’t drafted by Stu MacGregor.

  42. bookje says:

    I really don’t understand why anyone would call Stu MacGregor ‘magnificent bastard’ , I mean have you seen his shoes?

    What were we talking about again?

    Has Tambellini traded anyone yet?

  43. Cactus says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    Slow down! You’re getting way ahead of yourself. Even the great sleeper picks out of the late rounds don’t make it to the NHL until their early 20s. The great Pavel Datsyuk, the gold standard of late round steals, didn’t make the NHL until 4 years after his draft (at age 23 I believe). And then he proceded to blow the league away by scoring a whopping 35 points.

    When we’re dealing with picks outside the top 10 (or maybe even the top 5), the timelines are a lot longer than some people are willing to accept. I posted this in a previous thread, but I think it’s telling:

    http://www.quanthockey.com/Distributions/RookieAgeDistribution.php

    If you filter it by 2000s rookies, you’ll see that the vast majority of prospects hit the NHL between the ages of 20-23.

    I know that preaching patience in an online forum is probably as productive as yelling at a brick wall, but as LT said, we probably have a year to go before we can come close to closing the book on the 2008 draft (MBS’ first). Anything beyond that is to early and all we can do is look for good arrows and potential.

  44. Bar_Qu says:

    The MBS criticism strikes me as a mostly ‘tall poppy syndrom’ kind of thing.

    No scout is perfect, MBS certainly isn’t, but the critics create a false standard to ensure he doesn’t measure up (or several unattainable standards, all set with hindsight).

    All I know is Pronman ranks the Oilers prospects pretty high, after only a few years from where the cupboard was fairly bare. This to me is the best way to judge a team’s scouting. Are there enough prospects to provide some quality development potential? Because beyond that, fate, luck and Loki play a disproportionate role, to the point that I am surprised there are no NHL GMs who are out and out fatalists.

  45. Kris11 says:

    Pronman was right on your show when he said its still too early to know much of anything about Magregor’s’ tenure as head scout.

    He scored a win on Eberle. I mean Eberle was the highest ranked guy left on the board, but they were picking in the middle-late first round and could’ve picked someone else.

    It’s harder to judge his record picking first overall. He hasn’t screwed it up yet, but it was pretty hard to screw up. (Though not impossible)

    There are a lot of good and some bad signs from other picks in the MBS er: Marincin, Pitlick, Klefbom, etc. Magregor’s legacy will live or die with those guys, IMO.

  46. Lowetide says:

    Eberle was 29th on McKenzie’s board. There were other players available, Oilers selected Eberle.

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/07/what-happens-when-the-oilers-go-draft-walkabout.html

  47. Ducey says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Sorry guys!

    Ducey you get that VCR ain’t picking where we are pickin right? Love to kick DSF in his package but they are pickin late and we are pickin early. We all willingly gave Stu McGregor the nickname “The Magnificient Bastard” for draft excellence. Surely it’s not predicated on Hartikannen playing 40 games 5 years out!If so, its a really thin draft success! 2 years in a row. So a pretty dry 07 draft, Eberle and possibly nada in 08.

    I shudder to ask about 2009! I keep hearing about the superlative picks just bubbling under the surface. Where are they? How far away are they? Because if they are not 50 games in the AHL away from the show we had better start making some trades or does anybody believe 2 rookies added to a 29th place team = the playoffs

    Do you think Stu MacGregor questions how he got his nickname?

    The Canucks picked behind the Oilers? I noticed that. But in 2008, they picked 10th, the Oilers 22nd. That was Stu’s first draft.

    The point is the Oilers have prospects, actual prospects bubbling under. The Canucks have a bunch of busts or guys they gave up on.

    They may not be ready yet, but your need to have them ready NOW says more about you than Stu or the players he picked.

  48. hags9k says:

    Thanks for the piece on Khaira LT. I for one have a good feeling about the coke machines of 2012.

    And seriously, everyone here knows deep down MPS is going to be a player. Calling him a bust at this stage is just desperate negativity.

  49. Kris11 says:

    Thanks LT,

    That means Magregor is definitely up 1-0 but with a lot of game left to play.

  50. TheOtherJohn says:

    Sorry I give Oil all credit in world for Eberle. Great pick! Think MPS ill have a real NHL career! Bob Bourne? I give noticeably less credit for Hall and RNH because the alternatives were also very very good players. Think Yak was an absolute no brainier.

    So it’s everyone else we are talking about. With those picks we are talking about trend lines. Think most are all pointing in positive direction. It’s simply not accurate to project any number of those guys to be NHL players based on their body of work. Understand why that narrative is at odds with what the Oilers are selling. Pitlick, Hamilton and Lander are not scoring at th AHL level. Will they? Maybe. Plante and Tuebert currently project as 5/6/7 D men. Yes LT I know that Tuebert was an LAK draft pick. That they moved., who had never played a single game in NHL for them. An 08 top 13 pick. One of worse games played in 1st round

    I asked about 07 Oiler draft. Thin. 08 may turn out 2 players, one of of whom will be superlative. 2009 may be better? Emphasis on may be better. Using Cactus Datsyuk measurement. At age 21 Datsyuk scored 11 goals and 24 assists in the NHL. Does anyone think Hesketh, Abney or Bigos is doing that this year? Pitlick? Hamilton? Lander? Was thinking of 27 Yankees or 81 Oilers with plethora of top prospects in the pipeline. Don’t think I am premature to ask the questions. It’s just, so far, we have the top 10 picks, Petry, Peckham, Eberle and no one else for the last 6 years and we have been picking FIRST over the last 3 years.

    It’s almost like we are surprised how much better 31st pick is than # 45!

    Like what our amateur scouts are doing but no not think they are pulling rabbits out of their hats.

  51. slopitch says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    You make a tough argument. At this point if you include Petry you should include Gagner. And many of the years we are talking about, the story has yet to be told. Look how long it took Petry to showup.

    Getting a star (or close to every year) is great at the draft table. We have to remember the reason we got in this mess was a large part due to bad drafting. The teams that took the next step had player emerge from outside the lottery. Yes we’d like a Benn or Datsyuk or Chara. And I think your right players need to emerge from the later rounds. I just think they will. Oilers got lucky with Schultz and Smyth. Time for development and pro scouting to pay dividends.

  52. Lowetide says:

    TOJ: I don’t really think we can help each other. “The Magnificent Bastard” is a nickname for a guy who I think has taken some kids with nice arrows. Prospects outside the lottery rarely develop in a straight line and we’re seeing that in players like Tyler Pitlick.

    Having said that, I have yet to read anyone saying what you’re implying. No one. None.

    Here’s an article that you might find useful

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/06/28/oilers-second-rounders-find-ahl-tough

    And another

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/07/16/the-difference-between-edmonton-oilers-prospects-tyler-pitlick-and-curtis-hamilton/

  53. sliderule says:

    I don’t think you can fault the oilers for their first round picks as they have stuck close to consensus .
    I think their scouting team needs some help as they don’t seem to value or even cover USHL players.there are some real good players coming out of that league at bargain picks..

  54. blackdog says:

    We won’t know for years what to make of MacGregor’s record. We still can’t judge KP and his last draft was in 2007. Even with what looks like fails on those two first rounders we still don’t know what type of career Gagner, Dubnyk, Petry and Peckham will have, to name a few. If Dubnyk turns out to be a very good starter, Petry a quality top 4 guy and Gagner a quality top six guy then that era looks far better.

    I think the arrows for many of MacGregor’s picks are positive and that’s all you can look for right now. We won’t know for years on many of these guys.

  55. Bruce McCurdy says:

    I remain convinced that Sergei Shirokov is destined to be a huge star for the Canucks. He’s still just a lad of 26 and already has his first (and only) NHL goal under his belt.

    :/

  56. Dalton says:

    TheOtherJohn: Have no clue how anyone cut off line at top 10 pick. Nor have i ever heard anyone bright dispute :Hall/Sequin, RNH/Landeskog (LT guest this weekend sure put Landeskog ROY in perspective) that simply makes no sense. Have we defined an underperforming 1st round pick as the “Tuebert line”yet? Eberle is not a good pick he is an absolutely superlative pick!! : AND ? Hall,? RNH? Yak? Do not think so. So measurement is everyone else: Lander? Marincin? Bruce will correctly point out how Pitlick has played 3 years in 3 different leagues (great news, he can repeat AHL experience and throw up 75 pts in the AHL this year ) Hamilton is injured,A gain

    John, you are rambling. BIG time.

    But I agree, Stu MacGregor is an average to below-average head scout.

  57. Cactus says:

    TheOtherJohn,

    From what I can find, Datsyuk was 23 in that first NHL season. Still time to for prospects to make it, in other words.

    sliderule,

    Were you thinking of anyone in particular? I don’t follow the US league enough, so I’d be interested in the trends you’re seeing.

    Dalton: John, you are rambling.BIG time.

    But I agree, Stu MacGregor is an average to below-average head scout.

    What’s your standard for evaluating that? Is it compared to other scouting staffs? If so, how?

    I’m going to put forward a potential model for evaluation. From the research I’ve been doing (and posting a bit of), it seems that most NHL prospects will play at least their first game by age 23. One way we could evaluate talent is figure out how many players play 20 games in the NHL by 5 years after their draft year (i.e. before they finish their 23rd year). This could be done in an average sense from all drafts or specifically for a draft in question (to account for good or bad draft years). We could then see if Stu and the scouts outperformed this average. Assuming that this is a reasonable measure (and I’d suggest that it is) we would only be able to look back at Stu’s first draft (2008) at the end of the upcoming season.

    Of course, 20 games isn’t necessarily enough. We could also use LT’s 200 game threshold of an NHL career as a marker. Assuming the average NHL player plays between 60-70 games per year, let’s add three years to our draft +5 model. If we view the 200 games mark as a definitive standard for whether or not a prospect makes it, then the first time we could evaluate Stu’s earliest draft is after the 2015-16 season.

    Finally, let’s say that 5 years of drafting are sufficient to give us a good picture of a scouting staff and how well they draft. That means, we’d need to have 5 years of data for both the short term and long term measurements. That means we’ll be able to have a good idea of how successful (or not) Stu has been after the following seasons:

    Short-Term Perspective: After 2016-17 season.
    Long-Term Perspective: After 2019-20 season.

    We should probably hold off on definitive pronouncements for a few years. In the meantime, as long as the arrows are good, there’s nothing wrong with a bit of “MBS” to me!

  58. DSF says:

    Using games played in the NHL is a mug’s game when it involves teams like the Oilers and Columbus who have been dreadful for a decade.

    Of course, their prospects will be in the NHL much quicker and much longer than the prospects of more successful teams who will place their prospects back in junior or the AHL.

    How many NHL games would Paajarvi have on his resume if drafted by the Wings, the Penguins or the Rangers?

    My guess is zero.

    Had Gagner been drafted by Vancouver, San Jose or Detroit, how many games would he likely have on his resume?

    An example of this is Cody Hodgson who has all of 91 games NHL experience while Gagner has 366.

    Hodgson was drafted a year later of course and you can argue that Gagner a better player but the bottom line is different teams offer different opportunities due to roster makeup so judging MacGregor by how many games his draft choices have played in the NHL is a waste of time.

    IMO, the only way to determine whether a certain draft pick has been successful is to look at the performance of players still on the board when he was selected.

    Jordan Eberle certainly looks like a great pick at 22 with 119 points in 147 games but #26 Tyler Ennis (92 points in 140 games played, #27 John Carlson D (75 points in 186 games) #32 Slava Voynov D (20 points in 54 games ) and #51 DereK Stepan (96 points in 146 games are are trending pretty well too are trending pretty well too.

  59. Cactus says:

    DSF,

    You would have an argument if we were looking at GP in the first 3 years after the draft. However, when you extend the timeline to 5 (short-run) and 8 (long-run) yeays, this accouts for team effects. Even the prospects on the best teams make the NHL by age 23. Giving them another 3 years to make 200 games is reasonable, barring injury. however, I’d happily consider an extra year on top of that if you could show evidence that it would be restrictive.

  60. PunjabiOil says:

    Khaira apparently struggled with the skating according to a friend who was at development camp.

    That said, he was one of the younger players there, and has played in a lower league.

    That said, the kid needs to play in the WHL. I know the NCAA will provide him with the education (he’s apparently in the engineering program), but these are critical years in development. Education can wait – you only get one chance at the NHL.

    It’s vital to get the games in, at-bats, and be accustomed to the travel rigors.

  61. Lowetide says:

    DSF: Hodgson has so few games played because the Canucks used the rack on him.

  62. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    DSF: Hodgson has so few games played because the Canucks used the rack on him.

    Well, he was injured for most of a season and had to get back in shape in the AHL.

    Nonetheless, had Gagner been drafted by the Canucks he would have been behind Sedin, Kesler and Malhotra so likely would have spent another year in junior and a good chunk in the AHL.

  63. DSF says:

    Cactus:
    DSF,

    You would have an argument if we were looking at GP in the first 3 years after the draft.However, when you extend the timeline to 5 (short-run) and 8 (long-run) yeays, this accouts for team effects.Even the prospects on the best teams make the NHL by age 23.Giving them another 3 years to make 200 games is reasonable, barring injury.however, I’d happily consider an extra year on top of that if you could show evidence that it would be restrictive.

    No, I agree…but you can’t be misled by players who are drafted by shitty teams and are forced into service right off the hop.

    Generally #1 picks make it on merit but players like Gagner, Paajarvi, Cogliano, Peckham etc, would have far fewer NHL games had they been drafted by upper echelon teams.

    Deciding that they are great draft picks based on games played just doesn’t wash.

  64. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF: Deciding that they are great draft picks based on games played just doesn’t wash.

    No kidding…who’s the moron who proposed using games played as the metric?

    DSF: How many players drafted by the MacGregor team who weren’t taken in the top ten have played 80 games?

    Oh.

  65. Lowetide says:

    Stop all the clocks. Shut down the internet. We have reached the peak of Everest.

  66. PunjabiOil says:

    "Steve Smith": No kidding…who’s the moron who proposed using games played as the metric?

    Oh.

    LOL. Watching DSF is like an accident. You can’t help but step back, and watch it.

    It’s quite sad, actually.

  67. frenchfrog says:

    "Steve Smith": No kidding…who’s the moron who proposed using games played as the metric?

    Oh.

    You make the mistake of thinking he would respond to this.

  68. spoiler says:

    frenchfrog: You make the mistake of thinking he would respond to this.

    Considering it is quite obviously set up as a rhetorical question, I think you are making the mistake of thinking “Steve” made a mistake thinking DSF would respond to this.

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