IF I HAD A HAMMER

How does Nail Yakupov compare to Taylor Hall? Did he pump his numbers with PP? Did he play on a superior team? Will his rookie season look like Hall’s?

  • Taylor Hall EV 57, 22-33-55 (.965)
  • Nail Yakupov EV 42, 18-22-40 (.953)

Nail Yakupov’s Sting scored 2.34 EV goals per game (159/68) and Hall’s Spitfires 3.30 EV goals per game (225/68).Since their scoring numbers are similar and Hall’s Windsor club is wildly superior at evens (a goal a game better, lordy) I would say Yakupov’s totals are superior. They were both in on about 25% of their teams even strength goals, but that doesn’t account for Nail’s 42 gp compared to Hall’s 57.

Yakupov may never perform at a superior level in any discipline from this day forth, but allowing for the fact that we don’t have TOI I would suggest the young  Russian was the superior EV offensive player in their respective draft years. By enough that we can see it.

  • Taylor Hall PP 57,  14-32-46 (.807)
  • Nail Yakupov PP 42, 12-16-28 (.667)

Hall has the clear edge here, both in boxcars and points-per game. Hall’s Spitfires were once again better in this area (95 goals in 68 games) and Yakpuov’s Sting (77 goals in 68 games) couldn’t match the firepower. They were in on about the same percentage of team goals when you factor in games missed.

Hall gets the edge on the powerplay. I don’t know that it is as wide a gap as the numbers suggest placed side by side. That Windsor team had far more firepower, and it should and did show up with the man advantage.

  • Taylor Hall PK 57, 4-1-5 (.087)
  • Nail Yakupov PK 42, 1-0-1 (.024)

Hall’s Spitfies scored 11, Nail’s Sting 7. I don’t know what to say except Hall should be on the Oilers PK.

These are both really good players. I think when you factor in quality of team there’s a case to be made that Yakupov was a better junior scorer. Certainly before the injury.  I don”t know that Yakupov can push back defenders like Hall and we’ll have to see about who he finds chem with, but this young man is another elite level talent based on the numbers.

Taylor Hall’s rookie season is likely a solid “line in the sand” for our man Nail.

Courtesy GRET99ZKY

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121 Responses to "IF I HAD A HAMMER"

  1. DBO says:

    Gonna be fun having two players roar down the wing to scare dmen. Who plays 2 lw is the last forward question.

    Jokinen singed 2 yrs 9.0 mill in Winnipeg. Nice move for them, still happy we never went there. Physical 2LW please and I’m happy with this off season.

  2. Woodguy says:

    INSERT OBVIOUS NAIL/SEX/PUCKBUNNY JOKE HERE PLAYING OFF THE NAME NAIL.

  3. Woodguy says:

    If Nail can fly the zone and stretch the D like Hall, then the Oilers will have two lines that can tire out the D in a hurry and open up a lot of space.

    I think the Oiler trade will be out of left field (someone no one is talking about)

    They need to move too many players to get a guy in the last year of his contract (like Streit)

  4. Lowetide says:

    DBO:
    Gonna be fun having two players roar down the wing to scare dmen. Who plays 2 lw is the last forward question.

    Jokinen singed 2 yrs 9.0 mill in Winnipeg. Nice move for them, still happy we never went there. Physical 2LW please and I’m happy with this off season.

    I’ve been thinking Hemsky on L:

    Nuge-Hall-Eberle
    Gagner-Hemsky-Yakupov

    You could switch RW’s, I prefer Gagner with Hemmer though. Hemsky’s an acquired taste to play with and 89 has figured it out imo

  5. sliderule says:

    I think Yakupov will score in different ways than Hall.

    I would say he is more of a darter than a power rusher like Hall.

    He uses his quickness to find space in offensive zone and when he gets the puck the shot is off in a flash.

    He is very strong on his skates and won’t get knocked off his feet too often like Hall does.

  6. Lowetide says:

    The thing MBS said that has stuck with me is that he doesn’t miss. when he’s in scoring zones with the puck he apparently gets good looks and rifles it accurately. Oilers didn’t have any for decades and now four years after seeing eye Eberle and 1 year after slide rule Nuge we get Rasputin in the slot.

  7. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “Another form of convalescence, which I sometimes even prefer, is sounding out idols… The world has more idols than realities: this is my ‘evil eye’ on the world, this is my ‘evil ear’ as well… Posing questions with a hammer and, perhaps hearing in reply that famous hollow sound that indicates bloated intestines…”
    ~Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, Preface.

    So far we’ve got a strong case that Nail is the reality, where Schremp and others were merely empty idols.

    Looking forward to that scoring strength at evens getting unleashed. This kid is going to score and piss off Don Cherry. It’s going to be great.

  8. Thinker says:

    Hemmer hitting nail. I see a match made in heaven for gene principe.

  9. thurmtim says:

    To paraphrase ANOTHER song…

    “I’d rather have the Hemmer with the Nail, yes I would. If I only could, I surely would…”

    With apologies to Simon and Garfunkel and the whole Inca nation.

  10. jdubbs says:

    i predict that Nuge’s backhand sauses will go perfectly with Nail’s excellent one-timers…..a pure passer with a pure shooter. Ganer-Hall-Eberle isn’t to shabby of a line anyways

  11. sliderule says:

    For those of you that couldn’t go to scrimmage there is a video up on Hf development camp board that focuses on Yak for 15 minutes.

    Well worth a look.there is a point when he is covering for defence and he dumps a big forward with a hip check.Good stuff.

  12. hunter1909 says:

    Since we all tend to see everything hockey in a 1972 Canada V USSR Super Series context…

    Yakupov = Kharlamov – terrifyingly dangerous, until he’s given a cracked ankle.

    Hall = Gordie Howe 2.0(yeah yeah yeah I know Howe didn’t play in that series…but Hall has a Gordie Howe vibe around him, imo. Will die to win a game 7 final.

    Personally there isn’t a player in the NHL I’d want to trade Hall for. But if Yakupov’s Maurice Richard 2.0, you never know. I always wanted to see the Rocket.

    Hilarious watching the anti-Gagner desperados yakking up his leaving…riiight so we end up with bleeding Horcoff back on the 2nd line??

    Hilarious also, how a guy who’s scored 8 points in a single night, and shows arrows that have more to do with Henri Richard than any other player I can think of can’t leave the team fast enough.

    Sam Gagner is like that great bass player who played so long in the same shitty band that everyone thought he was as bad as they were(for the tone deaf readership on LOWETIDE; a great bass player, no matter how great can never compensate for a seriously terrible band).

    LAMEST YET EASIEST PREDICTION FOR THE UPCOMING SEASON: Gagner, plus anyone else who plays on the top six will be thought of as stars in their own right by the end of next season. Playing with Hall/Eberle/Yaks/RNH = Ben Eager could make the All Star game playing with these guys.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    sliderule,

    do you mean the vid LT embedded above? if there is another one, can you please post a link, I’d love to see it!
    hunter1909,

    that’s easily one of the most disgraceful things I’ve ever seen. Most noxious is the way decades later these guys can so casually dismiss the virtues of fair play and competition:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMJsJhHlyM

  14. sliderule says:

    Sorry same .

  15. striatic says:

    I’ve been worried about Gagner at 2nd C for a while and the team’s depth at C in general but lately I’m coming around to having two small C being ok so long as Gagner has a big puck supporting LW who can cycle and forecheck and hit. or at least someone to provide a no nonsense scoring threat to draw some attention from Gagner.

    Hartikainen may be that guy but i would rather see a trade for a surer bet if possible.

  16. Gret99zky says:

    Here’s that Nail footage I shot yesterday at Development Camp. No music so should be available to all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqPVEJk-b24&feature=youtu.be

  17. jonrmcleod says:

    LT: It seems like the plan is to put Hartikainen on the 2nd line. Do you think it would be a mistake to put Hemsky on the 3rd line? Smyth, Horcoff, and Hemsky seems like a pretty strong 3rd line.

  18. jonrmcleod says:

    Gret99zky,

    What was the music? I was waiting for a monster to break through one of the doors and eat the goalie.

  19. DBO says:

    If you could switch one of Yak or Hemsky to LW that would stack 3 lines, and also possibly allow MPS and his solid 2 way play to get top 9 minutes along side Smyth and Horcoff (which I think is the best place for him). His speed and size will help on both ends, and also he’ll cover for the slower old dudes. It also allows us to have the chance of an OK 4th line. Not good, but OK. If Jones is up on the 3rd then we are weaker on 4 (and that is not saying much about our 4th line).

    But as mentioned in many posts from a lot of us, i really do like the idea of 3 actual lines who can outscore.

  20. Gret99zky says:

    jonrmcleod,

    Indiana Jones music didn’t make it past the music detector at customs last time round.:)

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Gret99zky,

    is that what it was… I thought it was Wagner or equivalent.

  22. Southern Oil says:

    Is it just me or does anyone else think the free agent period this year is a lot quieter than previous years? Is this the effect of the CBA?

  23. fuzzy muppet says:

    Southern Oil,

    Shittier free agent pool. Only 3 or 4 bigger names. Until they sign, a lot of the lesser names won’t. Want to see how the market’s price is set

  24. rickithebear says:

    Even:
    Taylor Hall EV 57, 22-33-55 (.965) (22/57=.386) (22/225=.098) (55/225=.244)
    Nail Yakupov EV 42, 18-22-40 (.953) (18/42=.429) (18/159=.113) (40/159=.252)
    Tobias Rieder EV 60, 27-19-46 (.767) (27/60=.450) (27/169=.160) (46/169=.272)

    PP:
    Taylor Hall PP 57, 14-32-46 (.807) (14/95=.147) (46/95=.484)
    Nail Yakupov PP 42, 12-16-28 (.667) (12/77=.156) (28/77=.364)
    Tobias Rieder PP 60, 9-22-31 (.517) (9/62=.145) (31/62=.500)

    PK:
    Taylor Hall PK 57, 4-1-5 (.087) (4/11=.364) (5/11=.455)
    Nail Yakupov PK 42, 1-0-1 (.024) (1/7=.143) (1/7=.143)
    Tobias Rieder PK 60, 7-2-9 (.150) (7/17=.418) (9/17=.529)

    Rieders EV Goal rate projects to the 2nd best EV Goal count in the league.

  25. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Southern Oil,

    Seems to be everyone is waiting on Parise/Suter to make a decision.

    Teams are waiting to see: 1) what the market value is; 2) what their needs are if they win or lose the sweepstakes.

    the assumption seems to be once they are gone the floodgates will open. I don’t know if that is the case or not…. nothing has slowed Feaster from signing his neighbors and distant cousins.

  26. franksterra says:

    The Black Rieder cometh

    Two of the man-gods are RW, added to Jordan Bullseye.

  27. justDOit says:

    Southern Oil:
    Is it just me or does anyone else think the free agent period this year is a lot quieter than previous years?Is this the effect of the CBA?

    With Parise and Suter taking their sweet time on deciding which pile of money to take, things are getting a bit backed up.

    Then we have Doan. Shane Doan know where he wants to play yet, and won’t decide until the ‘Yotes ownership gets closer to being resolved – July 9th.

  28. Quidge says:

    First time poster. Just wanted to say thanks to LT for his great blog. I not only enjoy the writing, I love the discussion afterwards. Maybe if I ever have something to say, I will start to join in :)

  29. justDOit says:

    Gret99zky:
    Here’s that Nail footage I shot yesterday at Development Camp.No music so should be available to all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqPVEJk-b24&feature=youtu.be

    Thanks again for that – great stuff. You must have been using video software to zoom like that? It really works well.

    At least you avoided the temptation that other Youtube-ers succumbed to, of using Yakety Axe for the music of a Yakupov video. Sheesh.

  30. bookje says:

    Quidge:
    First time poster.Just wanted to say thanks to LT for his great blog.I not only enjoy the writing, I love the discussion afterwards.Maybe if I ever have something to say, I will start to join in

    Not having anything to say has not stopped many of those before you (including myself) so go for it.

  31. franksterra says:

    bookje,

    beat me to it

  32. remlap says:

    Another first time poster, long time reader here. Love the site. Love Lowetide’s writing. Love all the comments and opinions here (even DSF is good for a laugh). As Quidge said, if I ever have something to say, I will join in.

    Keep it up Lowetide. You make boring office work bearable.

  33. rickithebear says:

    oops needs to be adjusted for GP

    Even:
    Taylor Hall EV 57, 22-33-55 (.965) (22/57=.386) (22/187=.118) (55/187=.294)
    Nail Yakupov EV 42, 18-22-40 (.953) (18/42=.429) (18/98=.184) (40/98=.408)
    Tobias Rieder EV 60, 27-19-46 (.767) (27/60=.450) (27/149=.181) (46/149=.308)

    PP:
    Taylor Hall PP 57, 14-32-46 (.807) (14/80=.175) (46/80=.575)
    Nail Yakupov PP 42, 12-16-28 (.667) (12/48=.250) (28/48=.583)
    Tobias Rieder PP 60, 9-22-31 (.517) (9/55=.164) (31/55=.564)

    PK:
    Taylor Hall PK 57, 4-1-5 (.087) (4/9=.444) (5/9=.555)
    Nail Yakupov PK 42, 1-0-1 (.024) (1/4=.250) (1/4=.250)
    Tobias Rieder PK 60, 7-2-9 (.150) (7/15=.467) (9/15=.600)

    Thats better!

  34. justDOit says:

    bookje,

    I had the exact same reply all typed out, but then my boss had to phone. Stupid reports…

    (see Quidge? no substance. not even any acronyms, initialisms or numbers. nothing.)

  35. rickithebear says:

    Johnson signs in Col. 15M/4yr.

    I think 3.75M for petry for 5yr

  36. Quidge says:

    justDOit,

    I find the posters here to be pretty knowledgeable and funny at the same time. I am really looking forward to this season as I think we are going to gain a few spots in the standings.

    Thanks for the warm welcome and again thanks to LT for helping me get through the work day!

  37. uni says:

    rickithebear,

    One might argue that Petry isn’t as good offensively as Johnson and sign him to a 6 year 3-3.25; won’t happen but dare to dream.

  38. striatic says:

    uni,

    I think that’s a fair argument. Johnson also has better draft pedigree and poetry really only has one good year under his belt. He will get less than Johnson I think.

  39. CrazyCoach says:

    Lowetide: we get Rasputin in the slot.

    I’ve been dancing like a cossack since watching that awesome footage of Yakupov.

    The weather here in BC has been the absolute worst this summer, but I really don’t seem to care right now.

  40. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    rickithebear,
    uni,

    Sounds like someone’s fishing for LT to do an in-house RFA update post. It would be interesting to walk through the unsigned kids and talk $ and term.

    If Petry can stay as good as he was last year, and even get better, he will be very valuable and locking him down will be crucial.

    It’s not really comparable, but at 24 Smid got 2 years at 2, 250,000. At that point, however, Smid was not the monster he was last year… add Petry’s offensive upside and inflation… he’s going to get paid.

  41. justDOit says:

    rickithebear:
    Johnson signs in Col. 15M/4yr.

    I think 3.75M for petry for 5yr

    I wonder what the Petry camp will use for comparables? Salvador just got $9.5M over 3 years – very different players, but still. He might not want to sign for so much term until he’s proven himself over another season. If Petry continues on his upwards progression this season, he might put up numbers that get him into the $5M/yr range. I hope they can get him locked up for the long term.

  42. SoxandOil says:

    LT,
    Love the thought of trying Hemsky on the left side with Yak on the right, Keeps sticks in the middle and lets Hemsky dipsy doodle and Yak uncork onetimers on the fly. That second line could be just as deadly as the top line.

  43. striatic says:

    Between Gagner and Petry and Dubnyk the team is going tossed some significant RFA raises this year which I think will put the nix on big time UFA upgrades until some of the larger contracts come off the books..

    We are so used to the cap not being an issue, but this is the first year where things are starting to tighten up. Yak and Schultz alone add nearly 8m to the books.

  44. uni says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Smid remarked how surprised he was by the last contract offer, how it was about 500K over what he figured (1.85ish) and that he signed it very quickly and was quite pleased at how much they valued him. Hopefully most of that goodwill carries over into this contract negotiation and he signs a cap friendly long term deal. There are a few Czechs who seem to like familiarity; Kaberle in Toronto, Hemsky here, Smid might as well.

  45. striatic says:

    uni,

    I don’t want the oilers to underpay Smid and Petry but I’m hoping that they are able to reduce the cap hit by offering term. Like you, hoping these guys place value on security and commit to being oilers for a long time.

  46. ashley says:

    A lot can change in a week or two. Not long ago, we were comfortable talking about trading first overall (Yakupov) for Schenn and #5. However, Hall, Eberle, and RNH were absolutely untouchable.

    Now that we have Yak, he joins the three kids as another local treasure. There is some degree of endowment effect* in play for sure, but I think the Oilers made a great decision. Schenn and Reilly would have been cold comfort as we watched Yak star on the Leafs for a decade plus.

    I agree with LT’s sentiment above. His numbers are slightly better than Hall’s. FWIW, I think he has all the speed, but much more creativity and better hands than Hall, and will have the better career. And Hall’s career is going to be something else.

    That’s why I maintain if we are going to trade any of the kids, I would trade Taylor Hall, partly for his relative projection vs the other kids, but also for remaining RFA years (Yak has two more). I would make one of Yak or Eberle play LW.

    Hopefully we never have to trade any of them.

    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect

  47. Traktor says:

    If Petry develops to the point that we have to pay him 5M+ that’s a good thing.

    I don’t see any harm with giving Petry a short-term deal.

  48. striatic says:

    ashley:
    A lot can change in a week or two.Not long ago, we were comfortable talking about trading first overall (Yakupov) for Schenn and #5.However, Hall, Eberle, and RNH were absolutely untouchable.

    I don’t recalls many posters here being comfortable with that, I know I certainly wasn’t ..

  49. rickithebear says:

    striatic: I think that’s a fair argument. Johnson also has better draft pedigree and poetry really only has one good year under his belt. He will get less than Johnson I think.

    End of the season petry was:
    73GM 2G 23A 25P 2.63GA/60.
    to Dec.
    30GM 1G 4A 5P 3.26GA/60
    Jan. on against 1st comp w/ Smid
    43GM 1G 19A 2.22GA/60

    the kid continues with Smid he is a 40Pt top 15 1st line comp Dman. 5.5-6M.
    Sign him to 3.75-4M for 5+ years.

    its worse you saw the diffrence between DD and KHB results.

    Smid and Petry were on a +30 season pace playing in front of DD. that makes them a top 5 pair in the league.

  50. ashley says:

    striatic: I don’t recalls many posters here being comfortable with that, I know I certainly wasn’t ..

    Sorry, I meant to emphasize the “talking about” rather than actually making that trade, and talk about we did. Talking and trading are two different things. As you suggest, most here objected to a trade for Schenn and #5.

    Most here drew the line at Gardiner plus #5, but I think Yakupov will have more value than even that, but that could be debated. Time will tell.

    Thank God we didn’t draft Murray at #1. What a waste that would have been. As one of LT’s posts leading up to the draft suggested, that would have echoed down the canyon for 10 years or more.

  51. johnnyshaka says:

    Lowetide,

    After seeing the title I was very disappointed to not see the following somewhere in the post:

    http://youtu.be/qzElTAOF3gk

    If I were to jump into my time machine and set it for the mid-80′s this song would be playing on the cassette deck of my dad’s 1980 Datsun B210 Station Wagon while we were heading up to the cottage (it was a 6-hour drive back then so I could sing Trini Lopez’s Greatest Hits in my sleep!) for the month of July. Good times, really good times. Except for the time when I found out about the Gretzky trade as we were rolling back into Ottawa. We’d heard enough Trini and Dad suggested we listen to the news to get caught up on what we had missed the last month. God damnit.

  52. raventalon40 says:

    I wonder if we could get PK Subban out of Montreal. We have forward depth to deal from, just wonder what the cost would be.

  53. Lois Lowe says:

    rickithebear:
    oops needs to be adjusted for GP

    Even:
    Taylor Hall EV 57, 22-33-55 (.965) (22/57=.386) (22/187=.118) (55/187=.294)
    Nail Yakupov EV 42, 18-22-40 (.953) (18/42=.429) (18/98=.184) (40/98=.408)
    Tobias Rieder EV 60, 27-19-46 (.767) (27/60=.450) (27/149=.181) (46/149=.308)

    PP:
    Taylor Hall PP 57, 14-32-46 (.807) (14/80=.175) (46/80=.575)
    Nail Yakupov PP 42, 12-16-28 (.667) (12/48=.250) (28/48=.583)
    Tobias Rieder PP 60, 9-22-31 (.517) (9/55=.164) (31/55=.564)

    PK:
    Taylor Hall PK 57, 4-1-5 (.087) (4/9=.444) (5/9=.555)
    Nail Yakupov PK 42, 1-0-1 (.024) (1/4=.250) (1/4=.250)
    Tobias Rieder PK 60, 7-2-9 (.150) (7/15=.467) (9/15=.600)

    Thats better!

    Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t Hall and Yak’s numbers posted during their draft eligible seasons versus Reider’s being draft eligible + 1?

  54. hunter1909 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I very much doubt if you saw it when it happened. In fact, you might very well even have heard of it first, then watched, and now talk like you were there in Moscow…as some kind of virtual PC prophet.

    In reality, Canadians watching that game in 1972(not 2012), would have been perfectly happy to have seen the entire USSR squad seal clubbed.

    Yes, with blood on the ice and everything.

  55. bookje says:

    hunter1909:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I very much doubt if you saw it when it happened. In fact, you might very well even have heard of it first, then watched, and now talk like you were there in Moscow…as some kind of virtual PC prophet.

    In reality, Canadians watching that game in 1972(not 2012), would have been perfectly happy to have seen the entire USSR squad seal clubbed.

    Yes, with blood on the ice and everything.

    Given that the sentiment being expressed is that we are a more civilized and respectful society (including in sporting events) today than we were in 1972, I think your comments are supportive of RA. Cheap shots are not less common today. There was not more respect between players in past decades.

  56. rickithebear says:

    Lois: hockey defines the seasonage jan. to Jan.
    they were all 18>

  57. Bob Arctor says:

    Lois Lowe: Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t Hall and Yak’s numbers posted during their draft eligible seasons versus Reider’s being draft eligible + 1?

    I was just about to post the same thing. Take a look here for some better comps.

  58. Kris11 says:

    I would try to lock Petry down for a longer contract now with a lower cap hit than he is more likely to get later in his career, i.e. even next year. Maybe 6 years 4.00MM or something.

    But I doubt Petry takes that deal. He has every reason to say to the Oilers, give me the moon now or a one year deal and in that year I’ll show you I deserve the moon.

    Please note, the cap is at 70MM. If you have a 23 man roster, and they all got an even share of the cap, they’d all make over 3MM per. That means, in a way, that 3MM is what you pay for an average NHL’er. (And that will only go up.) Petry is D-men. They cost more. He’s a RHD with offense. That costs more. And a long del will buy UFA years. UFA years cost more than average. 4MM will look like a steal for Petry even if he doesn’t pan out that well. IMO. I know you’ll all think me mad.

  59. Kris11 says:

    The free agent market hasn’t adjusted yet to the new reali of a higher cap. That fact, combined with the fact that the current crop of UFA’s is lackluster is creating an odd market, It will be intersting to see how arbitrators and GM’s act with upocoming RFA’s. Really interesting. Maybe some offer sheets.Hard to say,

  60. ashley says:

    Kris11,

    I’d do that deal if Petry was game. I would venture that he covers that bet next year, and could be a bargain thereafter.

  61. DBO says:

    Pray for Philly to get both Parise and Suter. From copperandblue

    Multiple sources, including Philly beat writers have reported that the Flyers have the two richest cash offers for Parise and Suter. As we talked about on Twitter last night, if Parise and Suter should accept, the Flyers could put Pronger on LTIR, trade Scott Hartnell and Andrej Meszaros for no roster players, send Jody Shelley to the AHL and still be $800,000 over the cap after re-signing Jakub Voracek.

    No idea if it could happen, but adding those two players (Hartnell and Meszaros) makes us a playoff contender.

  62. rickithebear says:

    BoB: the years I posted is the same calender age. 18.
    do you want me to compare a 17 year old to a 18 year old?
    That seems Fair?

  63. uni says:

    rickithebear,

    If we’re going to be fair, note that Yakupov is 8 months and 26 days, so about 9 months younger than Rieder. That’s a pretty sizable difference for 18 year olds.

  64. CrazyCoach says:

    hunter1909: In reality, Canadians watching that game in 1972(not 2012), would have been perfectly happy to have seen the entire USSR squad seal clubbed.
    Yes, with blood on the ice and everything.

    That was such a different time. The cold war divided lines and it was all out war on the ice in 1972. That series went beyond the sports arena and the intensity of both teams will never ever be matched again in any sport. 40 years later, those of us who saw it, still talk about it like it was yesterday.

  65. Ducey says:

    Moving out Hartnell and his 67 pts at a cap hit of $4.2 to bring in Parise and his 69 pts at cap hit of $7+ million doesn’t make much sense to me…

    Also, apparently Cody Franson is miffed at the Leaves for his lack of playing time last season. He is an RFA and in no hurry to sign his qualifying offer.

    Would he be a solution here?

    Burke might take some of Plante/ Ontario’s own Teddy Peckman/ semi truculant Ben Eager. The Oilers would get a 6’5″ RH 24 yr old who has put up some nice offensive numbers in junior, the AHL and had 21 in 57 NHL games last year.

  66. Cactus says:

    Kris11:
    The free agent market hasn’t adjusted yet to the new reali of a higher cap. That fact, combined with the fact that the current crop of UFA’s is lackluster is creating an odd market, It will be intersting to see how arbitrators and GM’s act with upocoming RFA’s. Really interesting. Maybe some offer sheets.Hard to say,

    There’s some truth to that and I have to say that I’ve had similar thoughts. That said, there are a number of factors which affect this, largely to suppress salary growth, at least in proportion to cap growth:

    1) Long-term deals. The cap goes up every year, yet a majority of players, having signed multi-year deals, remain under contract based on old cap numbers. Obviously, this could change if NHL revenues stop growing so quickly/cap calculation is significantly changed. This also makes longer-term contracts a good bet… provided you give them to the right players.

    2) Scarcity of player types. Finding a generic 4th liner is not especially difficult (though some Oiler fans might disagree). Their value is capped because there is a near-replacement pool of talent waiting in the AHL and other leagues should salary demands outpace perceived value. There are, however, limited numbers of top-line forwards and top-pairing defenders. So, we should expect these salaries to rise with the cap. Dellow had something on this a few weeks ago:

    http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4725

    3) Stability and hometown discounts. The scarcity of high end players is balanced against the likelihood of top players to take hometown discounts and/or very long term deals to remain with one team for thte majority of their careers. Even with his injuries, Crosby could have easily commanded $10M plus on the open market. Instead, he took a long term deal at a hometown discount. Some of this might be motivated by the fact that there may be a tipping point for most star players around the $7-8M mark. They’d rather make $7.5M per season in a place they know and like than take $10M to go somewhere less favourable. $2.5M is a lot to all of us here, but the marginal utility of that money probably decreases in the eyes of one Mr. Crosby.

    I guess my overall point here is that salaries will never rise as quickly as the cap, should revenue trends continue. The key will be avoiding allowing players to test UFA waters where the feeding frenzy drives prices closer to real market value.

  67. Cactus says:

    rickithebear,

    So with Rieder looking like he’s going to return to junior, what’s the ealistic expectation for him if he indeed is close to the realm of Hall and Yakupov (at least as a pure scorer)?

  68. billymadison says:

    rickithebear:
    BoB: the years I posted is the same calender age. 18.
    do you want me to compare a 17 year old to a 18 year old?
    That seems Fair?

    And to add to what UNI was saying, Reider was only 2 months younger then Hall was when it comes to draft years so to be comparing the 3 as if they were all the same age seems ridiculous.

    Hockey doesn’t measure age based on calender years. The draft measures a year long span from Sept 15 to Sept 14

  69. OilClog says:

    Kris11,

    You’re not mad! We now know the biggest reason that Gilbert is gone. Petry is or will be better then Tom for many years to come. Doesn’t take long watching this kid to know he’s going to be a gamer.

  70. Kris11 says:

    I’m not a betting man by nature, but I want to explore a bet with Ricki. (No money, just for fun.)

    Ricki, would you choose one of these bets? And then we’ll follow it over the course of next season.

    1. I bet that Reider will not play 5 games in the NHL next year. (A game or two is always possible if you get massive injuries and a need of emergency callup. The Oilers have played some crazy players.)

    2. I bet that Reider will not score 15 goals (or even at a 15 goal pace over 40 games) next year.

    3. I I that Reider will not score half as many goals next year, in the NHL, as Hall or Yakupov.

    Here are my terms. If I win the bet that Ricki chooses, Ricki must change his login name to a name of my choosing for 1 year. If Ricki wins, I will -after unfreezing Hell- change my name to whatever he wants it to be for one year. (Let’s promise to name each other something awful but not past LT’s standard of offensieness.)

    If Reider is as good as Ricki says, he should be willing to take the bolder bet, like 2 or 3. 1 is a weaker bet. But I am willing to take it because I think Reider is not anywhere near as good as Hall or Yakupov, even though he is a solid prospect in the medium term.

    It’s a great bet for me, because even if I lose, the team gets better, and I am happy.

  71. Kris11 says:

    And what do I know. I can’t even spell his name right. Who better to bet with over “Rieder” than a guy who can’t spell his name.

  72. cabbiesmacker says:

    hunter1909:
    Since we all tend to see everything hockey in a 1972 Canada V USSR Super Series context…

    Yakupov = Kharlamov – terrifyingly dangerous, until he’s given a cracked ankle.

    If my memory serves, and most days it doesn’t, the Kharlamov ankle incident didn’t happen in 72. It was later when the Ruskies did a two nations tour against some of the NHL’s top clubs. Bobby Cllarke decided he didn’t like Russians all that much when they were in Philly – one two hander = Russians leaving the ice and threatening to not return.

    Different game back then for sure and I’m betting pretty much anyone involved with hockey at the time knew exactly what the Soviets were walking into in Philly. Seems a little hard these days but what the hell…Philly won and it didn’t stop Russians from coming to North America for the big cheques later.

  73. Kris11 says:

    I would also be willing to bet something about Rieder for the year following next year, but that’s so long in the future that I couldn’t remember to hold you accountable.

  74. rickithebear says:

    rieders season will be .45 of PPG production by age 22
    Is he 1.1PPG for first 20 or 1.6PPG last 40 or 1.7 last 20 plus playoffs or 1.7 playoffs or his healthy period 1.875PPG i look at his heakthy period and the playoffs he was 1.8ppg. a 65 point player.

    yakupov is .52 of PPG production by age 22.
    2 ppg before injury 1.61 PPG for the season is he a 85pt or 65 pt player. i will trust the healthy period.

    halls is .54 of PPG production. his year was 1.85 for season and 1.85 playoffs.
    he would be a 80 point player @ 22 on average.

    This takes in the age versus production.

    there are on average
    40 – 65 PT fwd in the league.
    55-60 PT
    70- 55pt
    95 – 50 pt

    just sign the kid!

  75. Professor Q says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    The video clip seems to disagree with you…

  76. Professor Q says:

    rickithebear,

    Where would the “Bookworm” slot into the lineup though? LW on the Gagner-Yakupov line?

  77. rickithebear says:

    Kris11: I would also be willing to bet something about Rieder for the year following next year, but that’s so long in the future that I couldn’t remember to hold you accountable.

    I was expelled in grade 8 for running a blackjack operation. the house is very profitable.
    i do not bet.

    But your three options are fools fodder.

    with the drafting of Yakupov and the signing of hemsky.

    rieder will get the Eberle treatment.
    Back for his 19 year old season. To run up 2.00+ ppg in kitchner.
    Plays @ WJC for germany
    Maybe CHL Player of the year?

  78. eidy says:

    rickithebear,

    that sounds good. another year to develop/hone his skills will be perfect. I agree they should sign him, but nothing wrong with the red wing model of development. There are already quite a few forwards vying for limited available jobs. We are pushing the 50 contract limit so I don’t mind him trying to replicate the eberle year.

  79. Kris11 says:

    We’ll bet next year, I guess.

    But which of the following do you think:

    1. Rieder is close to as good as Hall and Yakupov, but the Oilers won’t play him because they are dumb and don’t see his value. I mean, Hall was solid in the NHL his post draft year. Rieder will be in his 2nd year post draft and won’t be in the NHL at all? That sounds like a big mistake by the Oilers. An 19 year old Hall clone would play next year.

    2. Rieder is not close to as good as Hall despite being older. Rieder has holes in his game that require him to play more in junior and maybe the AHL. But his offense is a good sign that if he fillis in those holes he can bring good offense at the NHL level.

    Which is it, 1 or 2?

  80. cabbiesmacker says:

    Professor Q:
    cabbiesmacker,

    The video clip seems to disagree with you…

    Well I did qualify my memory lapses. Yes the clip is right. I got the Van Impe incident on Kharlamov in the NA series mixed up with it. It might have been even dirtier.

  81. Professor Q says:

    rickithebear,

    And if they sign him, and he stays in junior until he has to go to the AHL or forces his way to the NHL club, the contract doesn’t count until the latter scenarios to the 50 man limit yes?

    I meant when he’s developed enough to get on the club if that’s the line he’d be best on.

  82. Kris11 says:

    Ricki, did you go back to school or are you self-educated after grade 8?

  83. Professor Q says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    That stuff is 20 years before my time, videos are my only memories!

  84. justDOit says:

    cabbiesmacker: If my memory serves, and most days it doesn’t, the Kharlamov ankle incident didn’t happen in 72. It was later when the Ruskies did a two nations tour against some of the NHL’s top clubs. Bobby Cllarke decided he didn’t like Russians all that much when they were in Philly – one two hander = Russians leaving the ice and threatening to not return.

    Different game back then for sure and I’m betting pretty much anyone involved with hockey at the time knew exactly what the Soviets were walking into in Philly. Seems a little hard these days but what the hell…Philly won and it didn’t stop Russians from coming to North America for the big cheques later.

    Clarke’s famous two-hander was in ’72, and it changed the series. Not one of my prouder Canadian hockey moments, to say the least. At least Hawerchuck’s takedown that lead to the famous Lemieux goal was non-violent.

  85. Archie says:

    Lowetide:
    The thing MBS said that has stuck with me is that he doesn’t miss. when he’s in scoring zones with the puck he apparently gets good looks and rifles it accurately. Oilers didn’t have any for decades and now four years after seeing eye Eberle and 1 year after slide rule Nuge we get Rasputin in the slot.

    LT do you actually believe that Yakupov is going to get into these scoring zones without his head taken off. Until the Oilers can get that big C or winger to run interference for him and feed him, he’s going end up on his butt, face smashed against the boards, or in the hospital.

  86. Kris11 says:

    I think most people around here would agree with 2, by the way. There would just be lots of disagreements about how big the holes in Rieder’s game are and therefore how likely he is to be a top 6 player in the NHl. There is much more certainty that guys like Yakupov and Hall will bring big offense because they produced more in their draft year.

    Rieder’s post draft offense is a good sign, but the probability that he will bring that offense to the NHL is less than if he had scored as much as he did in his post draft year in his draft year. No one but you believes otherwise.

  87. Professor Q says:

    Archie,

    This isn’t Hall we’re talking about. Yakupov is a strong boy.

  88. Mr DeBakey says:

    Clarke’s famous two-hander was in ’72, and it changed the series.

    No it didn’t
    Go to Black Dog’s site for the revised [corrected] history of the Series.
    You’ll find a link to a myth-stripping series of blog posts.

    As for Rieder Reider, my guess is his Oiler future looks more like Omark’s than Hall’s.

  89. billymadison says:

    Archie: LT do you actually believe that Yakupov is going to get into these scoring zones without his head taken off. Until the Oilers can get that big C or winger to run interference for him and feed him, he’s going end up on his butt, face smashed against the boards, or in the hospital.

    I don’t see how you can make a generalization on a player who has yet to play an nhl game. They guy got blown up once in junior and now all of a sudden he will turn into a band-aid? People get hit. Its hockey. I honestly believe yak has a better hockey IQ than hall and learned immediately from his mistake. I believe you should wait on the judgement until he actually gets to the nhl.

  90. Cactus says:

    Kris11:
    We’ll bet next year, I guess.

    But which of the following do you think:

    1. Rieder is close to as good as Hall and Yakupov, but the Oilers won’t play him because they are dumb and don’t see his value. I mean, Hall was solid in the NHL his post draft year. Rieder will be in his 2nd year post draft and won’t be in the NHL at all? That sounds like a big mistake by the Oilers. An 19 year old Hall clone would play next year.

    2. Rieder is not close to as good as Hall despite being older. Rieder has holes in his game that require him to play more in junior and maybe the AHL. But his offense is a good sign that if he fillis in those holes he can bring good offense at the NHL level.

    Which is it, 1 or 2?

    That’s a false dichotomy. I know that Ricki is putting Rieder’s numbers up against Hall and Yakupov, but it strikes me that Eberle might be a better comp. Slightly smaller forward has some good tools but needs to work on part of his game (for Eberle, it was skating – don’t know Rieder well enough to say what his is). Moreover, as was the case with Eberle, an extra season outside the NHL lets you see if the offense is consistent, or if it’s just streaky/lucky.

    Here are the numbers from junior
    Eberle Draft Year: 1.07ppg
    Eberle Draft Year +1: 1.21 ppg

    Rieder Draft Year: 0.75 ppg
    Rieder Draft Year +1: 1.40 ppg

    For both players, there was a noticeable improvement from Draft Year to Draft Year +1. Obviously, Eberle’s jump was smaller because he started farther ahead. That could indicate that Rieder simply had a luckier 2nd year or it could mean that his Draft Year numbers were down for some reason (hidden injury, time needed to acclimatize to North America, etc.).

    I think we’ll get a much better picture this year. If Rieder jumps into the range of 2.00ppg (+/- 0.2) like Ricki is suggesting, we may have a real player on our hands. If he regresses, or even stagnates, then this last season may have been percentage driven.

    One last thing Kris11: how is Rieder older than Hall? Hall has 14 months on him. Or were you talking about comparing seasons?

  91. Kris11 says:

    Cactus, I meant to say Rieder would be older if he were to enter the NHL this upcoming season than Hall was when Hall entered the NHL. Sorry for the confusion.

    A Rieder/Eberle comp is a better comp than Hall or Yakupov. But here are some things to keep in mind.

    We never have much context with players in junior: no TOI, no SH%, no qualteam or qualcomp. That context really, really, really matters.

    From what little i remember (someone can look it up, if they care) the reason that Eberle’s post draft campaign was so impressive is that he didn’t have much help. (The stat that showed this was his percentage of total team offense, I think.) I’m not sure if Rieder has as strong a claim to generating offense as Eberle did, because Rieder is getting a bot of help. Rieder was like 10th in points and 5th in goal scoring on his team, an very deep talented group. Eberle was the leading scorer in Regina, IiRC.

    And without context, we have to and can rely on scouting reports to determine how likely a player is to arrive at their top potential in the NHL. The scouts were always high on Eberle. He was a first round pick. Rieder is thought to have some flaws, suggesting that there is some possibility that his game won’t translate to the NHL.

    Ricki did the same thing with RNH. He looked only at boxcar counting stats, without context (either statistical or scouting reports) and misread the probability that the prospect would succeed at the NhL level. He undervalued RNH because his boxcars were poor and overvalues Rieder for the same reason,

    That said, I agree that Rieder is a good prospect and has a reasonable chance at being a top 6 forward. But his chances are less than Eberle or Hall at the same stage. Boxcars alone suggest otherwise, but boxcars alone are pretty unreliable predictors of future success.

  92. hunter1909 says:

    bookje,

    I couldn’t agree more. RA is perfectly within his rights to speak his mind; primarily thanks to a lot of rough, non-PC men who sadly are all for the most part, dead.

    Hockey was always a filthy dirty game; I always heard Wayne Cashman’s funhouse style of play impressed the Red hockey team in that crucial game 2 of the Super Series more than anything else they saw that night.

  93. Kris11 says:

    In that last post I mean to say: 1. Eberle wasn’t nearly as sure a thing as Hall or Yakupov. 2. The evidence regarding Eberle and Rieder suggested that Eberle is and was significantly more likely to succeed, because the context in which Eberle put up his boxcars (including oercentage of total team offense and scouting reports)makes those boxcars more impressive than Rieder’s.

    By analogy, Schremp’s junior boxcars were much less impressive when looked at in the context of totlal team offense the Knights produced, the scoutingreports that his game had flaws, and the fact that so much of it was produced on the PP.

  94. Kris11 says:

    Woops. I don’t know why I said 10th. He was 10th in the league, not 10th on his team. He obviously produced well, but I think he had more help than Eberle.

    As I was writing it, I was thinking 10th really sucks. That was a great team. Should’ve thought before I typed.

    I iz dumz, he produced well.

  95. hunter1909 says:

    justDOit: Clarke’s famous two-hander was in ’72, and it changed the series. Not one of my prouder Canadian hockey moments, to say the least. At least Hawerchuck’s takedown that lead to the famous Lemieux goal was non-violent.

    How about when Mark Messier levelled that pesky Russian in 1987 with an elbow that really was a spear: afterwards moose smirking happily as the poor bastard writhed on the ice in agony? And no call, of course.

  96. Professor Q says:

    Kris11,

    Those point totals are for the entire OHL for Rieder (60GP 42G 43A), as he weas 10th in points and 5th in goals out of the entire league. The next highest goals scored on Kitchener was (62GP 29G 37A) by rookie Radek Faksa, with Michael Catenacci (52GP 25G 44A) and Andrew Crescenzi (52GP 24G 23A) next in line.

    This was without Akeson, Landeskog, Tipoff from the previous year (although Rieder did have 49P that year as well).

    I lived in Waterloo at the time and saw a few games over the years there, back to when Landeskog was on the fourth line. Interesting prospect developmental history, similar to the London Knights (which I now have the benefit of watching again being back in London).

  97. ed says:

    he’s a windbag so take it with a grain of salt but bb was just on the radio saying teams that locked up money on July 1 are calling teams that didn’t…

    also jagr signs with dallas.

  98. Bruce McCurdy says:

    hunter1909,

    hunter1909: How about when Mark Messier levelled that pesky Russian in 1987 with an elbow that really was a spear: afterwards moose smirking happily as the poor bastard writhed on the ice in agony? And no call, of course.

    If you’re talking about when Mark Messier levelled that pesky Russian (Vladimir Kovin) in 1984 with an elbow that was really an elbow that resulted in a two-minute but not a major/match penalty, then yes, I agree, how about that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUa0RuFd6A

  99. Professor Q says:

    Wow. Jagr, Whitney, Roy, Rome. Stars have changed a lot.

  100. hunter1909 says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    hunter1909,

    If you’re talking about when Mark Messier levelled that pesky Russian (Vladimir Kovin) in 1984 with an elbow that was really an elbow that resulted in a two-minute but not a major/match penalty, then yes, I agree, how about that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUa0RuFd6A

    Bruce, that’s the one. Please forgive my then-young now addled brain for getting it wrong to start with. “That one hurt” LOL, and “a stiff bodycheck” tells us more about the olden days than a million sociologists marching on Washington.

    Messier’s reaction starting at 1:20 I would recommend to anyone who would like an instant “What-Mark Messier-was-Really-Really-Like” event.

  101. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Worth noting that Rieder also led the OHL in playoff scoring despite his team not making the finals. He really had a great closing section to the season and kept it going right through the post season.

    That said, Rieder didn’t make near the impression at summer camp as Yakupov, who appeared to be in a class of his own. Rieder looked pretty good at times, but to my eye there appeared to be quite a chasm between their respective skill levels. Still, I like this prospect quite a lot and will follow his performance in Kitchener and at the WJC with great interest next season.

  102. Bruce McCurdy says:

    hunter1909,

    The Moose didn’t appear too apologetic, did he?

  103. Bruce McCurdy says:

    PS: I was in Northlands for that game, the last game of the round robin of the 1984 Canada Cup. I was sitting behind the other net, >200 feet away from the hit, yet it was one of those collisions where one could feel the proverbial earth move. Just a vicious dart. I too had a then-young-now-addled brain which saw it as a shoulder check, but from the video evidence “a little bit of an elbow to the head” seems clear enough. Yowsa.

  104. Cactus says:

    Kris11,

    I completely agree that we lose a lot of context when we discuss junior stats. That’s why I’m usually one of the first to be admonishing people who post things like “such and such is DEFINITELY a bust/steal”, especially outside the 1st round. We simply don’t know enough to be declarative. That said, supper is in the oven, the wife has an after-work engagement and I’m tired of editing today, so I wanted to look at this a bit more.

    I’m going to take Eberle and Rieder again and then add the famous Oilers bust – Schremp. These are not necessarily the best junior comps, but I do not claim to be in the same league as LT, Speeds or Spoiler, with their vast knowledge of junior prospects. Besides, since we’re thinking in an Oilers context, it seems fair game. In addition to the points per game numbers earlier, I’m going to add in what percentage of the teams goals this player scored/assisted in. I’m going to leave aside EV vs PP as Ricki’s kind of covered that.

    Draft Year:
    Schremp: 1.15 ppg (4th in team scoring, 23% of offence – 300g)
    Eberle: 1.07ppg (1st, 35.7% – 210g)
    Rieder: 0.75 ppg (6th, 19% – 255)

    Draft Year +1:
    Schremp 1.45 ppg (3rd, 29% of 310g)
    Eberle: 1.21 ppg (1st, 32.7% of 226g)
    Rieder: 1.40 ppg (1st, 33.8% of 248g)

    Draft Year +2:
    Schremp: 2.54ppg (1st, 48.5% of 299g)
    Eberle: 1.86 ppg (1st, 43.9% of 241g)
    Rieder: ??? TBD

    What does it all mean? I’m honestly not quite sure. Here are my few thoughts:
    -Rieder is tracking well in ppg and % of team offence in his Draft +1 year, in the ballpark of Eberle in terms of his contribution to team offence and a top OHL scorer (only 1 of the 8 people ahead of him – he technically tied for 9th – was younger than him)
    -Blowing away the competition in Draft +2 really doesn’t mean a lot. If that were true, Schremp would be an All-Star winger right now.
    -Junior numbers are not perfectly predictative (take note, Ricki). I’d like to see Rieder in the AHL. Eberle was a ppg player there. Unfortunately, Schremp scored pretty well there too, so who knows.

  105. Aron_S says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Clarke’s famous two-hander was in ’72, and it changed the series.

    Bruce McCurdy,

    As for Rieder Reider, my guess is his Oiler future looks more like Omark’s than Hall’s.

    Perhaps I’m jaded as an Omark fan, but I’m thinking Mr. DeBakey’s comment may be the right one when Rieder is finally ready for the bigs.

    Bruce, did you see Rieder as a kid with a more complete game at the camp? Or is he a one dimensional offensive star?

  106. Kris11 says:

    I’m also getting Eberle’s draft+1 year (08/09) with his 09/10 year where he really produced a massive percentage of team offense. (about 20 percent of the pats goals were Eberle’s that year) But it was that year that cemented his status as an elit prospect. Before that his probability of success was much less. If Rieder improves next year a la Eberle, that will be something.

    Fingers crossed.

  107. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Aron_S: Bruce, did you see Rieder as a kid with a more complete game at the camp? Or is he a one dimensional offensive star?

    Sorry, I’ve got no opinion there at all. Camp emphasizes “skills” more than “game”. Rieder certainly has a fair bit of the former, including a nice, and accurate, wrist shot.

  108. Lucinius says:

    Really, really surprised to see Jagr sign with Dallas.

  109. CrazyCoach says:

    hunter1909: How about when Mark Messier levelled that pesky Russian in 1987 with an elbow that really was a spear: afterwards moose smirking happily as the poor bastard writhed on the ice in agony? And no call, of course.

    I saw Rocky IV. I know that Ruskie was hopped on something. he he he

  110. rickithebear says:

    Kris11:
    -Studied Pub Admin @ U of S. 17 years old. reared achild with a 25 yr old woman (shaved and pulled booze since age 13)
    -Came out of school and followed my sport for 5 years.
    -Went back to school and just short of a Chem/Physics degree @ U of S. had chance to go to
    Univ. Chicago. one of the best physic-chem schools in the world. Did not finnish degree or go to Chicago. christ 12 more years.
    -Started a retail const. company for 3 years in Calgary. Millwork. Did alot of stores in banff.
    Then worked for parks canada on the roads/back country crew. they wanted the working population to reflect the reserve population in the area. Gave up my job went to school.
    - went to nait and was Canada ascholar in my feild.
    Have worked in the as-build and design industry for almost 20 years. technically proficient in:
    Civil
    Mechanical Ratating and Process
    Electrical 5000V+
    Electro/mechanical
    instrumentation
    Network.
    The oilers and Lt site caters to my rainman (ray my wife calls me)
    Wife is a Mount A Grad and chose journalism over Harvard Med.

    Worked with one of the leaders in Reliabilty Centered Maintaince review. developed alot of maintenace programs at Boeing, Dehavailand, And SPAR.

    He developed the priciples in the ELEC. utrilities community. i follow this priciple in the Discussions on this site.

    One thing was important. try something and see if it works. it allows you to eliminate the process or advance it.

    When we discuss these players we must identify the program structure and history of the teams they are on. the prospects are a reflection of the scouting type and development of the team.

    kitchner spits out strong two way players. with good special team skills. rieder dominated the oHL in Offensive play, ANd PK..

    What sucks is this euro was drafted in the CHL so he cannot go to the AHL?

    Everyone pret much nailed it.!

    Best case 30G 35A forward with great Pk skill. hall and Yakupov are atear above in the top 5 for the position type. But if your third line RW is top 30 for position.

    Come on!

  111. bookje says:

    hunter1909:
    bookje,

    I couldn’t agree more. RA is perfectly within his rights to speak his mind; primarily thanks to a lot of rough, non-PC men who sadly are all for the most part, dead.

    Hockey was always a filthy dirty game; I always heard Wayne Cashman’s funhouse style of play impressed the Red hockey team in that crucial game 2 of the Super Series more than anything else they saw that night.

    Yep, agreed. I try to maintain a healthy respect for brute force when needed and PC pacifisim when it is most effective. As a big guy with good fighting skills, I sometimes lament the loss of the days when you could engage in fisticuffs when somebody at a bar/store/cafe/church/etc pissed you off. However, to be honest, most often fighting is a waste of time and there are more effective, less damaging ways of addressing issues. That said, if your opponent is resorting to violence, then it does you little good to lecture him about the error of his ways while he is pounding on you (whether it be with tanks or fists).

    As per hockey, there is a myth that guys in the 50′s through 70′s were somehow both tougher and more respectful of their opponents. The first may be true (on average), but the second is not at all. Bounty’s, intents to injure, and so on were all the rage and there was little to no respect in any of it.

    I don’t think the game suffers much with more of the emphasis being on playing hockey and less of it on figuring out how to jab a guy without the ref seeing.

  112. sliderule says:

    I watched Rieder a lot at camp.

    I think his closest comparible is Eberle .

    He is much faster than Eberle but his shot release is slower.

    Same accurate shot and is good in close.

    He and Pelss haven’t figured out how to use their speed to find holes.

    I never liked Schremp so I can’t see Rieder being like him at all.

  113. DeadmanWaking says:

    hunter1909,

    I knew an amateur double bass player back in Montreal. He loved the way the bass could change the chord, and there was nothing anyone else could do about it. He also said if there was wit in the playing, he’d rather listen to a scratchy 78 used as a Frisbee in the mother of all invasions than listen to the best produced pap recording ever made on a $100,000 tube amplifier. I like Gagner, but he hasn’t exactly taken the chord by the thumb. I thought playing the bass would be kind of cool, but then what do you do with split fingertips after pitching yourself into a sag at the end of the third inning? Lather, rinse, repeat after the stretch? For a woman, the game is more like cricket (including the part where no-one who knows the rules ever explains them). I don’t know many women keen on fingertips that feel like they played too much Frisbee in the blowing dunes of Mesopotamia. I like music and all, but guess I’m just not willing to sacrifice the body. Now if my father had built me my own Chartres Cathedral in the backyard and I had spent my rebellious teenage years hammering out Beethoven’s senile/unsurpassed Große Fuge, things might be different now. Organs rarely lead to spinal deformity/hypochondria when played with modern seat cushions.

    I tend not to look at Yak in isolation from the team we now have. Kreuger has been handed the padded organ stool. Can he shape the genius of the Große Fuge into the final strains of the Ninth Symphony? Good chaos, bad chaos? Admittedly, the Große Fuge sounds on first impression a lot like Jazz composed for a bag of hammers. In this case, first impression lasted 100 years, until Stravinsky muttered “Crazy! Brilliant! The most contemporary music of all time!”

    You want to sound original?

    [You’re not going to do that by emulating the famous players you most resemble.]

    Give up listening to any of the music you usually listen to. If you normally listen to rock or jazz, spend three months listening to nothing but Stravinsky, Stockhausen and Bartok alternatively, spend that time listening to tribal chants from Niger, Bulgarian folk and Japanese Shakuhachi music. If you normally listen to rock and country, listen to John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Keith Jarrett. You get the picture. Become immersed, completely in this different music.

    You will probably find that none of these new ideas come into your playing during the months that you play ‘normally’. But don’t be disheartened, years later some little strands of originality may emerge. You’ve found a place to start, you’ve got a foot in the door, and it will only get better from there.

    Hard to work with hot lead and stained glass and to apply seven coats of varnish in a results business. Will Krueger last long enough to shape this team into a transcendent whole that exceeds the sum of its boxcars? It’s an eternal theme.

    Charlie: Well, I am going to finish my sentence, Lieutenant. My review of your flight performance was right on.
    Maverick: Is that right?
    Charlie: That is right, but I held something back. I see some real genius in your flying, Maverick, but I can’t say that in there. I was afraid that everyone in the tax trailer would see right through me, and I just don’t want anyone to know that I’ve fallen for you.

    Someone actually wrote that down. Passed it to a producer, who decided to finance it. Printed it off for an actress who memorized those words, and then actually spoke them in front of a director who didn’t terminate the take with a double-handed neck-choke gesture. The editor didn’t turn the footage into a cat toy. Movie goers happily stepped over the prone, twitching body of yesterday’s freshly hired projectionist. Amazing.

    and I just don’t want anyone to know that I’ve chosen you to father seven midget children

    OK, that makes more sense.

  114. Kris11 says:

    rickithebear,

    Cool.

    i’m a big fan of people who self-educate. You seem to have a pretty solid formal education, though, so you don’t count. :)

    We’ll disagree on Rieder. I’d still put him a cut or two below Eberle. But If he can pot 50+ with as little help as Eberle next year, and the scouts comtinue to say great things, I’ll have turned out to be wrong.

    Let’s hope I’m wrong.

  115. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hunter1909:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I very much doubt if you saw it when it happened. In fact, you might very well even have heard of it first, then watched, and now talk like you were there in Moscow…as some kind of virtual PC prophet.

    In reality, Canadians watching that game in 1972(not 2012), would have been perfectly happy to have seen the entire USSR squad seal clubbed.

    Yes, with blood on the ice and everything.

    You’re adding a lot of assumptions to my disgust.

    I was born in 79. Never saw it live, never lived the moment, never claimed to either.

    I also don’t think one has to be a PC prophet or whatever to find actions that break the norms of competition reprehensible.

    Winning at any cost, including cheating and extra-normative violence, is not an accepted norm of competition because it erodes

    1) the legitimate psychological feelings of power and triumph gained by squaring off against near-equal competitors
    2) the esteem and regard one feels for one’s competitors
    3) the public’s trust in competitive values of fairness and honor; and thus
    4) the worth of the public values of honor, prestige, etc.

    It is simply self-degrading and culturally poisonous to act in a dishonorable manner in competition.

    This is not remotely a “modern” or “PC” POV. Far from it. Read Homer’s Iliad book 23.

  116. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    On Rieder…

    I have no idea if this kid is going to pan out or not, but… I just thought I’d point out how awesome it is that there is an on going argument here about whether a guy drafted last year 114th overall is comparable to Taylor Hall.

  117. Lowetide says:

    On Rieder: I love the fact that he had a great year and hope like hell he’s Gretzky. History tells us the scouts are often correct. I don’t know that there’s a hitch in his giddyup and I don’t know the reasn why the NHL collective chose to pass over him so long.

    But they did, and that’s a tell. Here’s hoping he keeps making them look bad.

  118. hockeyguy10 says:

    Lowetide:
    On Rieder: I love the fact that he had a great year and hope like hell he’s Gretzky. History tells us the scouts are often correct. I don’t know that there’s a hitch in his giddyup and I don’t know the reasn why the NHL collective chose to pass over him so long.

    But they did, and that’s a tell. Here’s hoping he keeps making them look bad.

    What the scouts saw could be as simple as what Sliderule mentioned above. Slower release. Most of the players that reach Jr A/NHL all have a good – great shot.Not all have a great release. The ones that do ie stamkos,Hall Yakapov carry their offence to the NHL. The ones that scored lots in Jr but not so much once they turn pro isn’t because their shot isn’t good enough,their release is too slow. ie POS. How many times have you seen a third or fourth line player score and wonder why he doesn’t do it more often. Mostly because he doesn’t get enough time to get that slow release shot off, but when he does he can score.

  119. Dipstick says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    hunter1909,

    I was born in ’58 and saw the series on TV. I admit that we were not disgusted at the brutal shots then. In retrospect, they look horrible. However, we do not see the little dirty shots that the Russians were handing out either. You don’t get Messier all riled up like that by playing by the rules. The Canadians were used to fighting if you had an issue with your opponent. The Russians used other less honorable tactics.

  120. PerryK says:

    Ducey:
    …..Also, apparently Cody Franson is miffed at the Leaves for his lack of playing time last season.He is an RFA and in no hurry to sign his qualifying offer.

    Would he be a solution here?

    Burke might take some of Plante/ Ontario’s own Teddy Peckman/ semi truculant Ben Eager.The Oilers would get a 6’5″ RH 24 yr old who has put up some nice offensive numbers in junior, the AHL and had 21 in 57 NHL games last year.

    Ducey,

    I could be convinced of that deal! :)

    Could Burke?

  121. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dipstick:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    hunter1909,

    I was born in ’58 and saw the series on TV.I admit that we were not disgusted at the brutal shots then.In retrospect, they look horrible.However, we do not see the little dirty shots that the Russians were handing out either.You don’t get Messier all riled up like thatby playing by the rules.The Canadians were used to fighting if you had an issue with your opponent.The Russians used other less honorable tactics.

    I can appreciate that. I certainly wouldn’t want to give the impression that there was a clean, innocent party.

    As far as I’m concerned there are two kinds of players that I have little interest in or sympathy for:

    1) the reckless asshole, or Bobby Clarke

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2bHJj7avd4

    This kind of behavior is not just deplorable. It’s down right crazy. But more importantly, it takes literally no skill, talent, drive or anything redeemable to violently injure someone. All you need is the element of surprise and a much bigger, much stronger person can be overcome. The “attempt to injure” is key here.

    The good version of this is the “controlled crazy” a player that plays with vigor, hits like a truck, inspires fear, etc. but doesn’t rely upon pure violence to achieve ends, a kind of Lucic type.

    2) the peevish, irritating coward

    There are a lot of guys like this: A. Burrows, or most of the Canucks roster…. irritants that talk and clutch and spear, etc. but never bother to settle scores in a straight-up fashion.

    (caveat: it isn’t really fair to brand people in this way: most people, for example, aren’t jerks but “act like” jerks every now and again… that’s true here too… at any rate, I find both of these kinds of acts deplorable and they take away from my enjoyment of the game)

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