OILERS SCORE IN FREE AGENCY

The Edmonton Oilers have had success so far in this year’s free agent window, with two quality players choosing them and the club deciding to go with what they know in the 3G and enforcer slots.

Before the weekend began I suggested 9 names that Edmonton might look at, and the club signed the #1 and #4 players on the list. The remaining names would be exceptional additions–Ryan Suter, Daniel Winnik–but GM Steve Tambellini has suggested the club will look to the trade market over the next few days.

I hope the club called Ryan Suter to see if there was a level of interest and also hope they are pursuing him if there’s an opportunity. That said, the additions so far have addressed need and represent a reasonable solution to roster problems real or imagined:

  • Justin Schultz is a Godsend, a defenseman whose age and development are a perfect match for the Hall cluster. Music!
  • Ryan Smyth keeps  mailing himself to Edmonton, this time with a very friendly contract. I wouldn’t bet against one more after this one, but we finally seem to have closure on the question of where he’ll end his career.
  • Yann Danis is a solid choice for 3G and came at a dear price (he’ll make about triple his AHL salary of one year ago). I’m just so pleased the organization is bringing reasonable thinking to these seemingly minute decisions that can have an enormous impact later on. This signing–and the way they structured the contract–is a clear tell they realize the Khabibulin concern.
  • Darcy Hordichuk was the most controversial signing on the day, but for me it is a good fit. I’m not a fan of adding an end of the roster player for the enforcer role, but the club feels a need to have a deterrent on the bench and Hordichuk’s skill (he can take a pass and make one) and his ability to avoid being a penalty sink hole make him a wise move in this specialized area of the game.

Some free agent years leave Oiler fans in a bad place. Thoughts of flying to Hawaii and crying themselves to sleep flash through their minds–and I’ll admit to that feeling yesterday when there were rumors flying around about Hemsky headed to the Jackets at the same moment we were hearing Marc Methot was coming from Columbus.

I have to say that this summer has been satisfying. Yakupov at the draft along with a couple of Lucic bets, a long tall Russian winger with skill and three college kids; Justin Schultz as the bridge between the draft, free agency and a major addition to the central cluster; and the return of Smyth, Danis and Hordichuk who in different ways contribute to the roster’s success.

What will day 2 bring? It could be Hemsky’s final day as an Oiler, or maybe they sign a free agent or two (Suter and Winnik please) or it might mean that long awaited trade that sends away two or three players and brings in a top quality player.

There’s growing confidence in the management team. What will they bring us next?

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241 Responses to "OILERS SCORE IN FREE AGENCY"

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  1. dawgtoy says:

    First we need to wait until Parise and Suter make up their minds and sign. Then we might start to see some movement from the bridesmaids. That’s where a trade will come from. When the bridesmaids are are still seething about what might have been, they’ll be ripe for the trading.

  2. Doug McLachlan says:

    LT, any thoughts on Kumilin or similar as a Yakupov mentor?

  3. Brett Gee says:

    You really think that there’s a chance for Suter? That would be much more shocking than Shultz, as shocking as the Shultz decision was. Shocking, but welcomed.

    Really glad the whole Smyth thing is settled. Hopefully that’s the end of that.

    Seemed like a snoozer of a July 1st. Being in Asia, I’m glad I didn’t stay up late only to find out that Darcy Hordichuk will be back throwing his head into people’s fists.

    Yann Danis is a great signing.

  4. Lowetide says:

    Doug: Kulemin? Very much like him, he’d be terrific for this roster imo. Have no idea what EDM would need to give up but that’s a guy who has all kinds of talent and might be available because of his subpar season.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Brent: I think the Oilers would/should have called. If there’s a window, push that puppy through because Suter locked up over a long period gives them an enormous lift in an area of need. If they don’t grab a Suter via free agency or the draft, the club will eventually be forced to trade one of the big 4 up front to address it imo.

  6. Ryan says:

    Brett Gee,

    Agreed about Danis. Absolutely a great signing. 1. It’s Bulin insurance as LT mentioned. 2. It shows they realize they need Bulin insurance, again ast LT mentioned. Of the two, #2 means the most to me as a fan of the team.

    Suter? LT, now you’re talking crazy. That would be ridiculous. I would have to pinch myself to make sure I’m awake and not dreaming if that news broke.

  7. jonrmcleod says:

    I was thinking yesterday about how the Oilers are set up for the future if the D prospects develop as many expect they will. The J. Schultz signing only adds to the likelihood of the Oilers having a strong D in the near future. We keep thinking about the young forwards, but what about when the D prospects are NHLers? I realize there will be cap issues with signing the forwards to new contracts (perhaps necessitating a trade or two), but what I’m trying to say is that, from this vantage point, the future is very bright.

  8. jonrmcleod says:

    Lowetide,

    I’m thinking the Oilers probably want guys with no more than a couple of years left on their contracts. This is probably why they’ve said they would rather make trades than sign free agents. You don’t want to sign a mediocre D-man for 5 years when in a couple of years you’ll have several young D-men looking for a spot on the Oilers. But if they’re looking for a short-term solution, I wouldn’t want to give up much.

  9. Lowetide says:

    Jon: I hear you but there’s going to be some giving in the getting. If the Flames offer Bouwmeester and insist on Klefbom being included that’s a deal breaker. But what about a package of youngsters and prospects? I think you’d have to look at it.

  10. Halfwise says:

    Maybe the Katz master plan changed after they all realized that the problem was not going to be solved by hiring NK or Dany Heatley. They lost a year figuring that out.

    Now it looks like this, using the Hall draft as year 1:

    1. Accept that the team will be crap for two or three years. (But don’t give ticket discounts)
    2. With the resulting high first round picks, get offensive talent + character
    3. Years 1 and 2, with the 2-4 round picks get d-men with NHL potential. Let them develop properly out of the limelight.
    4. Take some longshot chances in the UFA market and college grads. You might get lucky
    5. Year 3 (=2012), with the 2-4 round picks get big forwards that can skate, take a pass, shoot, and earn bigger minutes in the season after they are drafted. They will help in year 5.
    6. When Justin Schultz is identified as a target, move Tom Gilbert out of the way so you can promise JS a decent spot on the RD depth chart. Get a teacher and capable Left D in return
    7. Throughout, build a minor league organization to incubate all the talent that comes from early picks in every round.

    ST has a contract extension because he has taken the bullets for the NK signing, a signing which always looked to me like what a new rich team owner would try before he figured out why it wasn’t going to work. He is an easy target for those who enjoy taking shots at easy targets. There is no way that ST has ever had total control of this roster or will ever have total control of this roster. But he does attract all the flak, which is useful if you happen to be a reclusive owner of an NHL team.

    This is just me speculating about what might be going on behind the scenes. The management of this team is not a collection of fools, just a bunch of humans with strengths and weaknesses. To build a team for the ages, you need a big picture strategy and then some tactics within it. And since no plan survives initial contact with reality, you need some nimbleness and some luck.

    I am a 15 year season ticket holder and I hate to have paid top-quartile prices for mostly bottom-quartile entertainment and results over the years. But I am also a management strategy guy who admires it when something astute gets done. Not all the pieces are in place, and this season is still one for development, not full delivery. But I see depth in the organization that matches the timelines for development at each position. My high hopes are for year 5 on the current timeline, the season after this one.

    The EIG did not have the money to achieve these things, and when he first bought the team Katz did not know how hard it is to run a successful franchise. I think they are figuring it out.

  11. jonrmcleod says:

    Lowetide,

    But it would be a gift if a team would take Peckham and Omark. Do the Oilers hold out for that? Obviously a package like that won’t get you Bouwmeester, but some GM might trade a top 4 guy for Peckham, Omark, and a lesser prospect like Hamilton.

  12. eidy says:

    Oilers mgmt with mr. Diggers involved seem to be big fans of the 11th hour signing. They really seem to stick to their guns and not blink first. Whether it was the pancakes trade, the smyth trade, the smyth signing, or the hemsky signing it goes down to the wire and I feel that they get the job done at closer to mgmts price. One could argue whether they always get it right, but they have an image of how much they are willing to spend or what they want for value and stick to it.

    I would make some calls with regards to what is available in trade. My target would be hanzal out of phx, but yandle would be ok if it cost hemmer jones and a 3rd.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Halfwise: Brilliant post, very insightful. The other half is already there, you’re just being modest.

  14. jonrmcleod says:

    Halfwise,

    I think that plan is a bit too detailed to be true.

  15. maudite says:

    Would love to see a magic bean trade going the other way for once.

    Peckham
    Plante
    Teubuert

    for

    Bouwmeester and whatever draft pick you can muster (if it could be managed)

    Takes us back down on contracts puts some d prospects in a system dying for anything resembling youth…2 1st round draft picks in there. Not suggesting they aren’t nhl defencemen but if by some miracle any of the three end up as #4 defenceman, it will be after or very near UFA status time.

  16. bookje says:

    Half wise – that interpretation of things is why I have been defending management for a couple of years.

  17. blackdog says:

    A very good couple of days.

    We’ll see what the next week brings. Puffs of smoke say they aren’t done and that additions will be via trade. My guess is they bring in a guy on a Streit type contract which would be a great bridge to Klefbom and Marancin. A guy to play top four minutes. Whitney and Schultz the younger insurance.

    Smid/Petry Whitney/Schultz Streit/Schultz

    Or maybe they go for a guy who is signed to a longer term who is a better player. If so then we’re talking guys like Hemsky, Gagner, kids going out the door.

    After that then they have to fill in the blanks, so say they move Gagner then you need a 2C, if they move Hemsky you need a RW unless they move Paajarvi over.

    I would take Kulemin in a heartbeat. He is a guy who is very good in his own end and along the boards, in the corners. His offence is better than last year, not as good as the year previous. Big guy, separates guys from the puck, gets the puck moving the right way. If they move Hemsky he would be a good fit with Smyth and Horcoff plus he can slide up the roster if Eberle or Yakupov get hurt.

    No need to bring him in as a mentor though, that’s what Horcov is for.

  18. bookje says:

    maudite,

    Did you know that there is a very fine beer named after you?

  19. maudite says:

    I do indeed. I drink it, thus the name.

  20. Rondo says:

    blackdog,

    I would like Edmonton to trade for Kulemin and Fedor Tyutin . 2 more Russian on the team could only help the rookies.

  21. godot10 says:

    If Suter does not sign back in Nashville, there could be not only Yandle and Bouwmeester auctions later in July, but a Weber auction.

    Nashville will have to act now to get something for Weber.

    If the Yandle auction goes last, the price of Yandle may have gone down quite a bit, if the bigger teams used up their dollars and players on Weber and Bouwmeester.

  22. Lowetide says:

    Pat: lol, OF COURSE Horcov will be mentor. :-)

    NJD signed Brodeur 9M for 2 years. Lou is fiddling while everything burns!!!

  23. Rondo says:

    Fedor Tyutin and Jay Bouwmeester play against top lines in the NHL

    Yandle plays soft minutes.

  24. striatic says:

    N Schultz is a top 4 D on the Oilers. Smid is our top D man. Whitney is a gamble, could slot anywhere.

    need to move out one of these guys plus a forward or two for a top pairing D man with more offense than Smid.

    if you want, play Smid top minutes when you’re ahead, offensive D more when you’re behind or even. that can be your first vs second pairing arrangement.

    i think this might be more of a mid season trade after determining where Whitney is at and maybe pumping Hemsky’s and/or Gagner’s value a bit.

  25. striatic says:

    i think bouwmeester would be ideal but i doubt feaster will trade him to the oilers for anything reasonable.

  26. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I don’t see Suter or down the road Weber being options. Suter seems committed to the US in the way Schultz was to Canada.

    What Nash. does is going to be interesting. From all appearances they have cultivated a small, but decent hockey market down there:

    http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

    they were right below us in attendance last year. It would make me sad to see them fall on hard times.

    I still say go for Tyutin, but Streit or J-Bo would be nice too. Tyutin seems like it could work as Colum. is a trainwreck that always seems vulnerable to moving parts in the hope that something fits.

    I think the Brodeur signing is a big overpay.. but part of that price is paying to watch him retire there. The media and fans love that kind of roll out of a player’s swan song. I still get misty thinking about Tony Gywnn’s last year.

  27. Traktor says:

    Still hard to believe we signed Schultz. Considering his age and skill-set Edmonton couldn’t have asked for a better free agent.

    Only Suter comes close but the rumor of 12 years needed to sign him makes me quite happy to settle on Schultz.

    I hope Edmonton does nothing again today. I would wait until free agents will settle on 1 or 2 year deals.

    Which is better depth?

    Smid Petry
    Schultz Schultz
    Whitney Sutton

    RNH
    Gagner
    Horcoff
    Belanger

    I think its at least debatable. We have nobody that can touch RNH but IMO Smid, Petry Schultzx2 and Whitney are all better than the rest of our centers. Others might disagree.

    I wouldn’t mind bringing in one more defender on a short-term contract and pushing Sutton to #7 but IMO management should be looking for a 2-1 and upgrading the center position.

    It sounds like Kruger wants to keep Belanger and I think Horc is safe with MacT on board. That only leaves Gagner but perhaps Edmonton keeps him and then moves Horcoff to the wing.

    In the end it always comes back to Gagner or Hemsky as the bait.

  28. FPB94 says:

    Lowetide,

    Klefbom would really be a no go for Bouwmeester?

    To my eye the guy’s struggling in the pros, and isn’t really dominant down in the juniors either.

    Did I miss a piece of info on him ? (Good INT play maybe ?)

    Besides, Jay-Bo’s a real workhorse, and not all that old.

  29. Lowetide says:

    FPB94: Klefbom’s the hill I die on, his scouting reports since draft day imply a very nice 2-way defender. His offense isn’t showing in the SEL but he’s not getting a PP push either. He’s been exceptional according to reports at this week’s development camp and is in that window of the Hall group age wise.

    I wouldn’t deal him for a defender with 2 years left on his contract, and I really like Bouwmeester.

  30. Traktor says:

    FPB94:
    Lowetide,

    Klefbom would really be a no go for Bouwmeester?

    To my eye the guy’s struggling in the pros, and isn’t really dominant down in the juniors either.

    Did I miss a piece of info on him ? (Good INT play maybe ?)

    Besides, Jay-Bo’s a real workhorse, and not all that old.

    You’re a Montreal fan, right?

    Trading Klefbom would be as dumb as Montreal trading Ryan McDonagh because he wasn’t lighting up the NCAA.

  31. franksterra says:

    Kulemin would in many ways be ideal for #2 LW with say gags and yak. Bit older but 3-4 prime years left. T.O. would (rightfully) want a lot for him i think. I don’t know how we could work it, Burke needs good players now. But with Schenn gone and no Garrison or Schultz, maybe a 3rd round pick plus a guy like Musil or Gernat, and Jones? they bought out Armstrong too.

  32. FPB94 says:

    Traktor,

    NCAA’s a bit tougher than Swedish Juniors.

    LT: Interesting. Oh well. If he does have a bomb, he’l probably be at least a 10-20-30 guy in the NHL.

  33. Traktor says:

    FPB94:
    Traktor,

    NCAA’s a bit tougher than Swedish Juniors.

    Top defender in WJC.

    Enjoy Gomez.

  34. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    FPB94,
    Lowetide,

    Klef’s a keeper for me… my only issue was last year he seemed to have a couple nagging concussion issues. But it looks like he came through fine and has developed really, really well.

    First thing though is not to rush him. Let him stay over in Europe for another year and then see if he’s ready and shock the NHL with him. Kid isn’t even 19 yet and they are already talking about him playing this year… tells me two things: 1) he’s special; 2) they might be crazy… don’t rush D.

    Besides we’ve got other D depth that might be attractive: Musil, Simpson, Teubert, Plante, Marincin, Gernat, etc. use 1 or 2 of those guys to get an NHLer… a good one mind you. not Methot.

    ps. did you see Crawford bowing down to Methot yesterday? what was that about? How did Methot become some kind of paragon of top-flight D? I’d much rather have Foligno.

  35. Rondo says:

    What would you give up if you had a chance at FEDOR TYUTIN ?

  36. Traktor says:

    Rondo:
    What would you give up if you had a chance atFEDOR TYUTIN?

    Horcoff + 2nd rounder

  37. Lowetide says:

    FPB94:
    Traktor,

    NCAA’s a bit tougher than Swedish Juniors.

    LT: Interesting. Oh well. If he does have a bomb, he’l probably be at least a 10-20-30 guy in the NHL.

    Klefbom plays in the SEL.

  38. Lowetide says:

    Rondo:
    What would you give up if you had a chance atFEDOR TYUTIN?

    I really like Tyutin but wouldn’t include Klefbom. That guy has some great arrows.

  39. FPB94 says:

    Lowetide,

    I know. But he played some U-18 and U-20 in his two years and didn’t exactly blow off the roof.

  40. Rondo says:

    Lowetide: I really like Tyutin but wouldn’t include Klefbom. That guy has some great arrows.

    How about Nick Schultz and ? for FEDOR TYUTIN

  41. uni says:

    FPB94,

    As LT mentioned, Klefbom plays in the SEL, and has been since he was 16. For what it’s worth, Farjestad fans posting on HF have been rabid about this guy. The hubbub is that after the WJC (and most of his injury woes were behind him) he became the defacto #1 shutdown defenceman on the team, going from healthy scratches to 18 plus minutes a night with lots of that being PK into the playoffs. He even edged Jonas Brodin in ice-time though they mostly play together, and by the end of the playoff run he was considered as good or better than Brodin, with a larger upside due to his physical abilities.

    This off season 3 defenders are leaving Farjestad, and Klefbom is penciled to move into the top pairing D, so we’ll see if his offence will shine through. He’s not the guy I think any sane GM would move for Boumeester. Also ditto on McDonagh, don’t know WTF Sather did to not only dump Gomez’s salary but also to get the best prospect in the Montreal system at the same time. Many people mentioned McDonagh would come back to haunt them, and I can’t imagine what their core would look like with Subban and McDonagh on the back end.

  42. Philosophil says:

    Halfwise,

    Agree, insightful read. Question for you and Lowetide: Given how JS signing transpired ie he didn’t appear to be a lock for the Oil, so that was a huge gamble to trade Gilbert for NS just to open up the right side? Or, was it a done deal, and the free agent frenzy was all for show?

  43. Ducey says:

    LT, here is a Matheson article: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Oilers+overflowing+with+calibre+players/6870584/story.html

    Highlights of interview of Tambo:

    1. Hemsky was not the subject of trade talks yesterday
    2. They might try Hall at C
    3. They plan to use the kids to PK more
    4. “We’re conscious of the fact we’d like to have a heavier presence at the top of our lineup. We’re interested in what Hartikanen looks like at training camp. He’s got the confidence of the coaches at the American League….”
    5. “I am not sure what Shane Doan’s goals are at this time, but I’d have a lot of interest in Shane Doan”
    6. Doesn’t sound like they are chasing Parise or Suter
    7. On Bulin: “Devan is going to see a lot of hockey”
    8. Sounds like MPS and Lander can expect more time in the AHL

    All sounds very good to me.

  44. bookje says:

    maudite:
    I do indeed.I drink it, thus the name.

    Well, kudoos to your parents. That shows a tremendous amount of foresight!

  45. Smarmy says:

    I get why one would want Suter but the money he’s going to command will turn him into a Brian Campbell in the eyes of a fan. That lightning rod to cap hell.

  46. cabbiesmacker says:

    Ducey:
    LT, here is a Matheson article: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Oilers+overflowing+with+calibre+players/6870584/story.html

    Highlights of interview of Tambo:

    1.Hemsky was not the subject of trade talks yesterday
    2. They might try Hall at C
    3. They plan to use the kids to PK more
    4. “We’re conscious of the fact we’d like to have a heavier presence at the top of our lineup.We’re interested in what Hartikanen looks like at training camp.He’s got the confidence of the coaches at the American League….”
    5. “I am not sure what Shane Doan’s goals are at this time, but I’d have a lot of interest in Shane Doan”
    6. Doesn’t sound like they are chasing Parise or Suter
    7. On Bulin: “Devan is going to see a lot of hockey”
    8. Sounds like MPS and Lander can expect more time in the AHL

    All sounds very good to me.

    Sounds like standing pat ?

  47. blackdog says:

    You don’t trade Klefbom unless you’re getting a young proven high quality player who is signed longterm back. You just don’t.

    Oilers’ D is looking better but Whitney is probably done and is UFA after this year, Nick Schultz is older and two years away from UFA and Smid is a year from UFA (although I am quite sure they sign him).

    You don’t trade your second best D prospect unless its a guy like Pietrangelo or OEL coming back and they aren’t.

    I suspect they stand pat at C one more year. They are going to shore up the D and give Gagner another year to see if he can break through. Even if he does I suspect they use him as tradebait and look to bring in a bigger pivot.

  48. Halfwise says:

    LT, Philosophil et al,
    Thank you for your kind words.

    The JS pursuit was a gamble, and it paid off. All that was known was that he would sign somewhere, that money was not a major differentiator and that he had the luxury of time to make his choice. So give it your best shot: show that your interest in the guy is sincere and deep-rooted, and that his opportunity is exceptional with the Oilers compared to his other options.

    No way was the pursuit something just for show. You don’t take a prime pursuit target for granted, period (either before or after you have acquired him).

    If JS had not been signed, I would guess Plan B would have been a capable RD on the UFA market with the promise that he would be competing only with Petry for top pairing minutes., Plan C would be a trade. I hated to see Tom Gilbert leave for a Left D, and would be happier if he was still an Oiler. It would be easier to replace Nick Schultz than Tom G, imo. But that debate has been stale since April, and N Schultz has a reputation as a mentor that Gilbert never had..

    They need to move contracts of players who are beyond their waiver exemption, two or more for one capable D coming back, signed for two years or less, and a versatile forward who other teams hate playing against. All the better if he speaks Russian.

  49. Downright Fierce says:

    3rd period of 4v4 hockey underway at Millenium.

    White showed well in the first, but Blue is more stacked & now lead 9-3. Yak with a hat trick for Blue (and a different celebration everytime). Set up a couple nice goals too. Martindale must have had 7 quality chances in the first, but only just scored Blue’s 9th.

    Klefbom appeared to injure a finger on his left hand. Trainer was examining it after the 1st & haven’t seen him since. Conner Jones also took the brunt of a collision with his twin Kellen despite the two of them playing for Blue. Also haven’t seen him since, though Kellen put in a nice goal soon after.

    Zharkov with a pair for White. Bigos with some heavy shots & a bone-rattling hit. Solid play from Gernat & Marincin who have spent a lot of time as a pairing.

    Blue wins it. Fun game!

  50. striatic says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    standing pat might not be a bad idea, what with so many young players in development and with two possible impact players in Hemsky and Whitney coming off injury and at the low end of their possible value.

    the team needs upgrades. 2 at F and 1 at D. if they can make those moves in the offseason that’d be great but the deadline might be a better time to make those decisions.

  51. jfry says:

    i’ve seen klefbom about 10 games worth live. he reminds me of brewer.

  52. Downright Fierce says:

    Shootout time. Zharkov best move so far with an absolute showstopper.

    Big cheers as Yak takes the ice. He lollygags the puck in & breaks out his laser from a 6 feet out. In the net in a nanosecond & crowd goes wild.

  53. Ducey says:

    cabbiesmacker: Sounds like standing pat ?

    I doubt Tambo is going to give a complete overview in the morning paper of their plans on who to trade or sign. So its going to be pretty vanilla.

    But the fact they are not looking at moving Hemsky, are going to look hard at Harsky in camp, are going to keep players on the farm, and might take a run at Doan are all positives in my mind.

    Doan would be an ideal fit. He is probably buddies with Smyth, could play 2C, is from Alberta, could take over the C from Horcoff, adds size and intesity….he would be a great mentor for the kids.

  54. Ducey says:

    Whoa, Radulov gets $9.2 million x 4 in the KHL. I hope Nail really wants to play in the NHL.

  55. PerryK says:

    We have to trade away 2 of Belanger, Eager, Jones. They have very good trade value and don’t fit on the new Oilers (may be all 3!).

    As for D, we can cheaply acquire a UFA; either Steve Eminger, or Milan Jurcina (Both R shots and reasonably competent).

    I would love to still see a veteran LW to replace Eager (Winnik?)
    ……and Arnott on a 1 year contract for C (Great Face offs and size)?

  56. franksterra says:

    If we’re talking 2 or 3 for 1 trades, does anyone have a cogent, sane, workable but ambitious plan for our ridiculous lack of C depth? We have really nothing, nada in our system for C right now. We need to plan for life after Horc, the likelihood that the Belanger Triangle will be just that, that Sam may be what he is forever, that Lander won’t ever make the grade past 4th liner. VV, Martindale and Travis Ewanyuk (sp?) don’t fill me with confidence going forward.

  57. stevezie says:

    Ducey,

    I agree Doan would be a great fit, but does he play center?

    Downright Fierce,

    Thanks for the updates, sounds like it’s going fine.

    Lowetide,

    I agree that Klefbom is a no-go for Boumeester, but what about Marincin? We wouldn’t be getting him for free. Would we be better off targetting a lesser player with a lesser pricetag, ike Sekera?

  58. Ryan says:

    bookje: Well, kudoos to your parents.Thatshows a tremendous amount of foresight!

    I’m not sure foresight means what you think it means.

  59. Lowetide says:

    Stevezie: Sure, Marincin or Gernat or Musil. Beyond Klefbom, Oilers have something to give and will have to in order to get help.

    Franksterra: C could be Taylor Hall’s position by fall and LW could be the weak link. We have to wait and see how this shakes out.

  60. Cactus says:

    Halfwise,

    Great post. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  61. Ryan says:

    Really? Why is everyone banging on the we have to trade Belanger drum?

    How many wins do you expect a potential upgrade over Belanger at 4C would give us next season?

    He can win draws, PK, and well, it’s the 4rth line. Maybe we can see if the Kings will trade him for Colin Freaking Fraser. Wow. Remember how terrible he was?

    Me? I’d be more interested in an upgrade at 2C or 3C as per Traktor.

    Eager’s another guy I don’t worry about too much. He was a disappointment last year in some respects, but he’s still not the problem.

    However, I do agree with you 100% about Jones. Where’s WG by the way? :)

    Jones is a guy I’d like to see moved. Ever watch Mad Money? Sell Sell Sell.

    PerryK:
    We have to trade away 2 of Belanger, Eager, Jones. They have very good trade value and don’t fit on the new Oilers (may be all 3!).

  62. Lowetide says:

    Trading Jones is impossible. You guys. First Smyth and now Jones? Frack!

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    Whoa, Radulov gets $9.2 million x 4 in the KHL.I hope Nail really wants to play in the NHL.

    Wow…. Nash is being gutted. granted they certainly hadn’t been relying upon him… but if he stayed that would at least help them weather the storm.

  64. striatic says:

    Ryan,

    i agree with you that neither Belanger or Eager are the problem.

    who are the problems?

    not problems:
    Hall, RNH, Eberle, Smid, Petry

    problems:
    Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff, Whitney, Khabibulin

    neutral:
    Smyth, Jones, Eager, Belanger, Petrell, N. Schultz, Sutton, Potter

    insufficient information:
    J. Shultz, D. Dubnyk

  65. SoxandOil says:

    Parise to Chicago would be awesome. Hopefully it would reduce the cost of Hjalmarrson, a minute eating solid defensive PK option. We have enough PP options with Petry, Whitney, JS, Potter.

    Chicago seems to want Gagner but that would be a huge and expensive hole to fill. Unless we throw Hall out there and pray. Plus if Gagner has to be moved I think next summer he will bring more of a return (hopefully).

    So if Hjalmarrson can be had for a 3 for 1 with anybody not named Gagner or MPS going over, I say do it. Maybe Omark, Peckham and a 2nd? That’s a stretch I know but its my birthday tomorrow and I get a wish right?

  66. Lowetide says:

    Chicago is apparently in on Parise, if so Hjalmarsson may shake loose. I posted this the other day, might want to read it if you missed it.

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/06/examing-hjalmarsson.html

    Do I want him for the Oilers? Depends on the price but imo he could cost a very good forward

  67. Ribs says:

    Buddy of mine sitting behind Oilers brass at prospect camp. Says they are chatting about Bryce Salvador. He was +18 this year and played overr 20 minutes a night (so did Mark Fayne, though).

  68. In the Grease says:

    With all the trade speculation, was thinking about Theo Peckham…. I like the guy: I think he has a ton of character and passion, and will stand up for this teammates in a heartbeat.

    If Eager is moved – and I know this would be a longshot – how about trying Peckham at 4th line LW? Would add a much more willing combatant (and still a deterrent when Hordichuk’s not in the lineup), a guy with some crash and bang at almost the same size as Eager (6’2″, 235 v 6’2″, 240), and at least some defensive acumen. Also backup D if a D was lost to injury during a game…

    I’m thinking a poor man’s reverse Dustin Byfuglien.

    Thoughts?

  69. Cactus says:

    I know a few people are counting out Whitney here. If that’s because of injuries, fair enough. He certainly hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt in terms of health. If, however, people are down on him because of his play, I’d suggest the following reading:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/06/04/ryan-whitney-was-a-train-wreck-in-2011-12-but-is-there-reason-for-optimism/

    Whitney was improving by the end of the season. If he’s not out with yet another injury, I think there’s a reasonable case to be made that he can play top 4 minutes.

    In other words, we need good insurance, not an outright replacement.

  70. striatic says:

    you know, Gagner is good. damn good.

    the reason Gagner is a problem is that he needs support to help him keep the puck moving in the right direction.

    maybe MPS becomes that guy with Gagner and Yak on the right but that’s a roll of the dice at this point.

    forget improving depth at C for a moment, who can the Oilers get to play that puck support role to the playmaker [Gagner] and the sniper [Yak]? i think the right player in that position could really solidify Gagner’s role.

  71. DSF says:

    Tracy ‏@TreenasOil

    Oilers made contract offers to Carle Doan and Jäger

  72. DSF says:

    Tracy ‏@TreenasOil

    Oilers trying to move Jones Belanger Gagner Peckham and Plante, Intetest in Hemsky from Rangers Kings and Ducks

  73. cabbiesmacker says:

    striatic:
    cabbiesmacker,

    standing pat might not be a bad idea, what with so many young players in development and with two possible impact players in Hemsky and Whitney coming off injury and at the low end of their possible value.

    the team needs upgrades. 2 at F and 1 at D. if they can make those moves in the offseason that’d be great but the deadline might be a better time to make those decisions.

    I have no problem if that’s the plan as long as we aren’t told the playoffs are a real goal. Won’t be happening with that group of C’s unless RNH goes on a Gretzkylike roll. (which he very well could of course)

    There’s a whole lot of “wish and a prayer” and just a bit of “we hope the young kids can step up” happening there. Still not enough depth imo.

  74. FastOil says:

    striatic:
    Ryan,

    i agree with you that neither Belanger or Eager are the problem.

    who are the problems?

    not problems:
    Hall, RNH, Eberle, Smid, Petry

    problems:
    Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff, Whitney, Khabibulin

    neutral:
    Smyth, Jones, Eager, Belanger, Petrell, N. Schultz, Sutton, Potter

    insufficient information:
    J. Shultz, D. Dubnyk

    Context is important. Players who are performing at an adequate level given their workload, place in the roster and experience aren’t the ones sinking the ship. Could there be upgrades? Sure.

    The guys who IMO didn’t win their battles enough or cover basic role assignments:
    Eager, Potter, Peckham, Jones – scored a bit but unreliable on D and IMO a weak forechecker.

    Not NHL ready but played anyway:
    Lander, Teubert

    Hurt/Kaput:
    Whitney, Khabinulin

    That’s 35% of the roster. This is the problem IMO, not Horcoff and Smyth who were worked like rented mules until they pooped out, or Gagner who posted good second C numbers and improved everywhere. Or Hemsky after two shoulder surgeries and coming (pushed) back too soon.

    I think everyone else met reasonable expectations given their circumstances and roles on the team and how many rookies there were. Could some have played better or be upgraded? For sure, but it doesn’t mean they were the problem.

    I think Krueger will utilize the players available to him better than Renney assuming the coaches are being allowed to choose. Which should mean players doing better individually.

  75. striatic says:

    DSF:
    Tracy ‏@TreenasOil

    Oilers trying to move Jones Belanger Gagner Peckham and Plante, Intetest in Hemsky from Rangers Kings and Ducks

    is anyone taking fussy britches seriously anymore after blowing the Yakupov pick?

  76. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    striatic: is anyone taking fussy britches seriously anymore after blowing the Yakupov pick?

    In the same vein… anyone watching Dreger’s twitter feed today will have noted the calmness with which he is putting up with Eklund’s nonsense.

    Guy’s a pro. Can’t even bring himself to properly diss a hack chirping in his ear.

    ps. why are we calling Top Heavy “fussy britches” again? I missed that one.

  77. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF:
    Tracy ‏@TreenasOil

    Oilers made contract offers to Carle Doan and Jäger

    Miroslav Jäger? That guy’s a plug. I don’t see how he’s an upgrade over Belanger at 4C, though I suppose he may come cheaper. But still, if he’s the answer, I don’t know the question.

    Carl Doan’s no great shakes either.

  78. Ribs says:

    striatic: is anyone taking fussy britches seriously anymore after blowing the Yakupov pick?

    She blew it at the same time as the all of the other connected people. Sounds like she got the same message/email.

  79. Cactus says:

    striatic: is anyone taking fussy britches seriously anymore after blowing the Yakupov pick?

    Dan Tencer still has a radio show, so….

  80. striatic says:

    Ribs,

    i don’t take Stauffer or Tencer seriously either. not that i think they’re dumb, but they are on the payroll and need to be listened to through the Kremlinology filter as they have ulterior motives at times.

    has anyone made a list of @treenasoil’s successful predictions?

  81. "Steve Smith" says:

    striatic: has anyone made a list of @treenasoil’s successful predictions?

    Surprisingly, no.

    This exists, though.

  82. striatic says:

    “Steve Smith”: Surprisingly, no.

    This exists, though.

    well, until someone does i’m going to take @treenasoil’s gossip with as much seriousness as i might an Iguana with a PhD.

  83. jp says:

    FastOil,

    100% agree with this assesment.

    I don’t think Gagner, Hemsky or Horcoff should be looked upon as problems going forward.

    Gagner may need to be upgraded to be a SC contender, but he can be a 2C on a playoff team.

    If Hemsky remains healthy (huge if, I know) he’s exceptional secondary scoring.

    And if Horcoff and Smyth aren’t run into the ground by toughs/PK/PP they’re solid 3rd liners.

  84. speeds says:

    Lowetide:
    Franksterra: C could be Taylor Hall’s position by fall and LW could be the weak link. We have to wait and see how this shakes out.

    If Hall moves to C, I wonder if they’d move Horcoff to LW on Hall’s line?

  85. Lowetide says:

    Fussy Britches is the name the warden in Shawshank calls the poster of Raquel Welch that hides the escape route. “What say you, fussy britches?” The nickname was thrown around along with “bra and panties” and various other less app. nicknames, with the group settling on Fussy Britches.

  86. Lowetide says:

    speeds: If Hall moves to C, I wonder if they’d move Horcoff to LW on Hall’s line?

    Makes sense, Oilers have Stan Weir and Messier together in 79-80 and Messier lined up at center.

  87. Southern Oil says:

    Lowetide:
    Fussy Britches is the name the warden in Shawshank calls the poster of Raquel Welch that hides the escape route. “What say you, fussy britches?” The nickname was thrown around along with “bra and panties” and various other less app. nicknames, with the group settling on Fussy Britches.

    Brilliant movie – was just on TV a few days ago. He throws the rock right threw the poster a few seconds after that quote. “It’s a conspiracy!!!”

    I don’t subscribe to her stuff on Twitter (I might be the only one not on twitter) but still like to know what she is putting out there. I don’t put much stock into it. But it helps pass the summer months and makes for interesting debate..

  88. sliderule says:

    The predictions that were made about the oil picking Murray were made because that’s what the scouts were leaking to them.

    The rumor that Katz made the pick rings true to me.

    Yaks antics at development camp are the kind of thing that turned scouts off.

    If yaks show at scrimmage today is any indication he will make them eat their opinions.

    Amazingly fast release and a rocket of a shot.

  89. PaperDesigner says:

    Ribs: She blew it at the same time as the all of the other connected people. Sounds like she got the same message/email.

    Exactly. I don’t think anyone should be questioning that Stauffer is connected because he was predicting Murray on draft day. Just because one is “connected” doesn’t mean you have direct access to the final decision. From all accounts, the Oilers were rather split on Murray and Yakupov, although they ultimately took the right guy. As for Treenas, we probably don’t have enough information. Most of the time, she posts something about what the team is thinking of doing. If she really has a source, most of her information would be about things that never turn into trades or signings. A given team probably targets players in trades, offers contracts to free agents and receives offers for players much, much more often than something actually happens. I think if you go back through her stuff, 98% of it does not predict much of anything. It’s really the predictions that are interesting, because they seem to be the ones that allow you to verify if she has anything going.

    I think you have to judge her on the same standards as you judge a guy lie Gregor or Stauffer, but with a little more skepticism–after all, they don’t operate under anonymity. Sources may give you one thing honestly when it turns out to be another (see the Murray prediction) or give you something honestly and unpredictable factors can come into play (see the Heatley situation), but they are still going to be good sources in the end. If Treenas really has a good source, over the long-haul, she should be able to predict, specifically, certain moves. She certainly did last summer. Let’s see if she can call a free agent signing.

  90. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide,

    Thanks for the heads up.

    On Fussy B: she had us all but inking a Methot deal yesterday too… you don’t have to go back to the draft to point out her missed attempts.

    So far the day has been pretty boring on the FA front… I guess everyone is waiting for Parise/Suter to figure out what they want.

  91. Lowetide says:

    I can tell you MANY people volunteered to me the week of the draft (and especially Friday morning) that Ryan Murray was going #1. HOW did they tell me? DM, PM, text, two well known media people did mock drafts that morning with Murray #1.

    We’ll never know what happened, but something did.

  92. PunjabiOil says:

    Yaks antics at development camp are the kind of thing that turned scouts off.

    - “We want to draft the right person”

    - “..the player who will be the best fit for the Edmonton Oilers”

    - Body language making the selection

    - Tambellini not really praising Yakupov, downplaying his impact right after winning the lottery. Further, being receptive to trading the pick.

    Of course it could have been a smokescreen, we’ll never know.

    A bit discouraging Yakupov is heading back to Russia for the summer without an ELC yet. Wonder what the hold-up is?

  93. PunjabiOil says:

    We’ll never know what happened, but something did.

    I’m no insider, but I do know a few people working within the Oilers organization who said Murray was going to be the pick. Dean/Guy also suggested on their show Murray was going to be the pick. Coupled with Bob Stauffer turning heel on Yakupov a week before the draft, and pumping Ryan Murray’s tires…..

    Either way, overruling was vital. Yakupov will likely be a star. He’s Taylor Hall with better hands.

  94. "Steve Smith" says:

    WOYWITKA SIGNS IN ST. LOUIS! WOYWITKA SIGNS IN ST. LOUIS!

  95. speeds says:

    Would be interesting to see what they do if Hall moves to C. I’d imagine we’d see some other roster moves first, but maybe something like:

    Smyth-RNH-Eberle
    Horcoff-Hall-Hemsky
    Hartikainen-Gagner-Yakupov
    Eager-Belanger-Jones

  96. striatic says:

    Lowetide:

    Franksterra: C could be Taylor Hall’s position by fall and LW could be the weak link. We have to wait and see how this shakes out.

    good point, and why i think that the oilers should be looking at addressing LW and not C. even if Hall doesn’t move, Gagner or RNH would benefit from a strong LW with Smyth playing a reduced role.

    unfortunately there’s not much of anything available at LW in the UFA market beyond Parise, so would need to be a trade. Target Umberger, Ott, Chimera, Cooke, Higgins, Clowe.

    my preference is Ott, mostly because there’s been talk that he’s on the market so he seems more acquirable than the others, and because he can help protect the kids.

  97. DSF says:

    Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

    Jiri Hudler agrees to 4 year, $16 million contract with Calgary Flames. 4yrs x $4 mil.

  98. "Steve Smith" says:

    Toby Petersen re-ups in Dallas…so why the hell did we bother bringing MacT back?

  99. OilClog says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: In the same vein… anyone watching Dreger’s twitter feed today will have noted the calmness with which he is putting up with Eklund’s nonsense.

    Guy’s a pro. Can’t even bring himself to properly diss a hack chirping in his ear.

    ps. why are we calling Top Heavy “fussy britches” again? I missed that one.

    You can really taste the caged up anger Dregs is holding back on ek’s. I for one hope a back stage Dreger power slam is coming.

  100. GordM says:

    Hudler signs…meh.

    Prediction = FULL NMC!

  101. Cactus says:

    Wow Punjabioil, Sliderule. You guys strike out on your Murray prognostications and now you’re trying to justify it as a conspiracy that led ownership to overrule the scouts?

    I will say this: it IS possible that the scouts wanted Murray and Katz overrruled them. It’s also just as (if not more likely) that the Oilers leaked Murray’s name a bunch because Yakupov was so overwhelmingly favoured on 3rd party lists that the draft could lose all its drama. It’s also possible that the scouts were divided, even if they had a majority opinion and management decided to make a call in secret to surprise everyone.

    Barring a public statement from the Oilers or a good reporting job by someone very credible in the media, we’re never going to know for certain. The only thing we can know is that the Oilers drafted Yakupov, they seem happy about it and the fans seem happy too.

  102. DSF says:

    GordM:
    Hudler signs…meh.

    Prediction = FULL NMC!

    Nope.

    4years @$4 million.

    No frontloading.

  103. Lowetide says:

    Cactus:
    Wow Punjabioil, Sliderule.You guys strike out on your Murray prognostications and now you’re trying to justify it as a conspiracy that led ownership to overrule the scouts?

    I will say this: it IS possible that the scouts wanted Murray and Katz overrruled them.It’s also just as (if not more likely) that the Oilers leaked Murray’s name a bunch because Yakupov was so overwhelmingly favoured on 3rd party lists that the draft could lose all its drama.It’s also possible that the scouts were divided, even if they had a majority opinion and management decided to make a call in secret to surprise everyone.

    Barring a public statement from the Oilers or a good reporting job by someone very credible in the media, we’re never going to know for certain.The only thing we can know is that the Oilers drafted Yakupov, they seem happy about it and the fans seem happy too.

    I don’t think it’s like that. I think enough people are saying Murray was #1 that it is reasonable to assume that he was at one point or another. I don’t look at it as defending a position, but passing information

  104. Lowetide says:

    I wonder if the Oilers do anything today? Doesn’t feel like this UFA season has any wind at all

  105. justDOit says:

    Hudler. I like this one Feast. It’s an overpay, but isn’t that what ufa is all about? At least he got a good player here.

  106. FPB94 says:

    Well. Everyone lured by the big cats (Parise and Suter).

    Usually, everyone and their mom gets signed after the main figures are out.

    (AKA, every plan B becomes active)

  107. jp says:

    speeds: If Hall moves to C, I wonder if they’d move Horcoff to LW on Hall’s line?

    Long term I like the idea of moving Hall to C. Will be some growing pains on the way though. Tough to see a team make the playoffs when their top 2 Cs together aren’t yet 40 yo, are very much still learning the defensive side of the game, and are going to get schooled on draws every night. Sure changes the look of the team and removes one of the biggest long term needs if Hall masters the switch though!

    Horcoff next to him every shift and on the bench after sounds like a good mentoring opportunity too.

    Lines as per SPEEDS

  108. DSF says:

    Lowetide:
    I wonder if the Oilers do anything today? Doesn’t feel like this UFA season has any wind at all

    That’s a nice pick up for Feaster.

    Got a 25 goal scoring winger who hits like a truck

    Flames LW depth:

    Cammalleri

    Hudler

    Tanguay

    Glencross

    Comeau

    Pretty light at centre and RW.

    I wonder if a Jaybo trade could address that?

  109. spoiler says:

    speeds: If Hall moves to C, I wonder if they’d move Horcoff to LW on Hall’s line?

    Love ya Speeds, but that makes zero sense.

  110. PunjabiOil says:

    Hudler had a 10 goal, 27 assists season in 2010-2011.

    Lets see how he thrives in Calgary. Someone pointed out 70% of his TOI was with Zetterberg.

    We wait.

  111. PunjabiOil says:

    Also:

    His shooting percentage was 19.7% last year. Career average is 13.7

  112. FPB94 says:

    So you’re saying the Flames overpaid a guy on career year huh?

    Why mention?

  113. spoiler says:

    Is Brendan Shanahan a UFA this year? He sure would be useful.

  114. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Hudler.

    Feaster is a man possessed.

    Maybe I’m reading too much into it. But the more I think about it, the more I think the press jabbering at him about blowing it up Edm. style last year and his less than diplomatic response were really tells of a pretty deeply wounded guy.

    He’s operating like a guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. “I’ll do it my way, we’re not like them!”

    To add to Ashley’s (i think) “gambler” association, I’d add the “teenager,” reckless, jaded, victim complex… all the angst and lashing out of James Dean without the cool.

  115. jp says:

    spoiler:
    Is Brendan Shanahan a UFA this year?He sure would be useful.

    How about Cam Neely? He and Hemsky could have 2-3 dynamite games together per year when both were healthy. May be his knees are even healed by now…

  116. Lowetide says:

    Rom: I like this better than the others but they’re small now top 6 and I don’t know who will do the heavy lifting. Would guess JBo goes for a big, skilled veteran centerman who can play the toughs.

  117. FPB94 says:

    How about Petr?

    Nobody can stop the Klimatizor in the summer.

  118. spoiler says:

    jp: How about Cam Neely? He and Hemsky could have 2-3 dynamite games together per year when both were healthy. May be his knees are even healed by now…

    Pffft. We traded for a defenseman with congenital foot problems and signed a senior citizen goalie with back issues. Cam Neely makes this team in a walk.

    He can still wallk, right?

  119. Rondo says:

    Lowetide,

    Trade Schultz + ? for JBO

  120. Rondo says:

    Lowetide,

    If JBO was in play that would be interesting

  121. skidplate says:

    TSN UFA tracker has Hudler at $16 mil 2 years, 8 mil per lol

  122. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Rom: I like this better than the others but they’re small now top 6 and I don’t know who will do the heavy lifting. Would guess JBo goes for a big, skilled veteran centerman who can play the toughs.

    Wouldn’t JOK fit that bill?

    ps. it’s not the signing that’s the problem. I like Hudler a lot. It’s the signingS. To the casual observer Calgary looks like an aging core that doesn’t produce at value anymore and who is trending in the wrong direction (3 years out of the big show now).

    I don’t know if blowing it up is or was ever necessary. But Feaster acts (again to the casual observer) like he’s trying as hard as possible to fend off a reality he can’t stomach — the the team he helms is structurally wobbly.

    That’s probably overthinking things… but he’s made a ton of moves in the last week going back to the Jank trade/pick…. he may be the busiest GM going right now. It certainly looks like he’s trying to prove something.

  123. skidplate says:

    Rondo,

    No

  124. jonrmcleod says:

    Lowetide,

    The top dogs are taking more time than usual.

  125. Rondo says:

    skidplate,

    Nick Schultz

  126. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    skidplate,

    That can’t be right. Earlier it was 4×4.

    remember they effed up Hordichuk’s deal yesterday too.

  127. Cactus says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think it’s like that. Ithink enough people are saying Murray was #1 that it is reasonable to assume that he was at one point or another. I don’t look at it as defending a position, but passing information

    Sorry LT. I’ve got the utmost respect for you but there’s a marked difference in what you’re saying here vs. the idea that the scouts were overruled by Katz/Tambo/Lowe.

    All we know is that 24 hours before the pick, some people started saying that they were hearing that it’s Murray. Fair enough, but without a source, we don’t know if that’s a scout, Stu, someone in management or someone sweeping the floors. Moreover, even with attribution, we’ll never know if that was an honest opinion or a plant from management to increase the suspense.

    We also know that a bunch of media types took this and ran with it. Hard. And when they turned out to be dead wrong, they had two choices: come out and admit their source was completely mistaken or come up with a theory about how they were really correct…. until Katz came down from Olympus to change everything. Of course, without more information, we cannot disprove the conspiracy theory. However, even if both possibilities are equally as likely, I’m inclined to believe the option that isn’t convenient for the goobers on talk radio.

    Finally, we know that although Tencer, Michaels, (to a slightly lesser extent) Stauffer and others were running with this story, Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger weren’t. Is that because they’re not as plugged in? Or is it because they couldn’t get a firm enough source for these rumours to report them?

    In summary, we actually KNOW very little about what happened around the draft. And I’m sorry if I get upset when the usual management bashers try to pass off speculation as fact, but I think the purpose of having a community devoted to underlying numbers is to pursue facts and truth, not indulge in useless rounds of “saw em bad, saw em good”.

  128. skidplate says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Ya I figure as much, I just find it hilarious.

  129. spoiler says:

    I cannot see Feaster trading JBo to Edmonton.

  130. franksterra says:

    Just lifted a Dreger tweet from another forum (Leafs, yes, I did that)

    “Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

    To trade Bobby Ryan, the Ducks want a few pieces, including a 2nd line center.”

    Leaf fans speculating if Bozak or Grabo would do it.

    Sam? Plus high pick and good prospect? Plus more?

    Hall to C, Ryan #1 LW?

    $5.1 mil cap hit until 2015

    A lot of coin in that (incredible) top six. Bye bye Hemmer I would guess, pdq then Horc asap the year after.

    Likey?

  131. Ducey says:

    That’s a nice pick up for Feaster.

    Got a 25 goal scoring winger who hits like a truck

    DSF, the guy is 5’10″ and 180 lbs. He had 48 hits last year. In your not so subtle attempt to annoy Oilers fans, you have confused “hits like a truck” with “plays for someone other than the Oilers”.

    Even Kent Wilson is saying “meh”, as Hudler was a soft minutes guy with a high shooting percentage. He will do well to collect 40 pts a yr and won’t bring much more.

    Assuming the Flames are going to add Sven, they have about $2 million left in cap space. They are done.

    A smart troll would realize that his days of bugging Oilers fans are coming to an end as the team improves and would move to a Flames board. There is real potential there.

  132. Smarmy says:

    The Red Wings need offense and they have at a ton of cap space. Yet they let Hudler walk….

  133. skidplate says:

    Rondo,

    Oh, I thought you meant JS. I would prefer not trading one of our top dman for another dman. We did that already with Gilbert.

  134. speeds says:

    spoiler: Love ya Speeds, but that makes zero sense.

    Why is that? It would give Hall better defensive help in the transition than, say, Hartikainen, if he’s struggling with faceoff Horcoff could take them for awhile.

    If you move Hall to C, someone has to stop playing C. RNH is fine at C, nothing wrong with Belanger at 4C. Guess you could move Gagner to wing?

  135. Rondo says:

    skidplate,

    Personally I think JBO is a first pairing D man

    Nick Schultz is a second pairing D man.

  136. godot10 says:

    Bobby Ryan is three years till he is a UFA, and then he is going to Philadelphia, where he is from (roughly), That is why the Ducks have him on the market. You cannot build or plan around someone whose gone in three years.

    He also bad mouthed Schultz in a tweet over the weekend.

    So just the rebuild is supposed to fruition, suddenly one would have a massive hole/gap.

  137. Lowetide says:

    Cactus: Sorry LT.I’ve got the utmost respect for you but there’s a marked difference in what you’re saying here vs. the idea that the scouts were overruled by Katz/Tambo/Lowe.

    All we know is that 24 hours before the pick, some people started saying that they were hearing that it’s Murray.Fair enough, but without a source, we don’t know if that’s a scout, Stu, someone in management or someone sweeping the floors.Moreover, even with attribution, we’ll never know if that was an honest opinion or a plant from management to increase the suspense.

    We also know that a bunch of media types took this and ran with it.Hard.And when they turned out to be dead wrong, they had two choices: come out and admit their source was completely mistaken or come up with a theory about how they were really correct…. until Katz came down from Olympus to change everything.Of course, without more information, we cannot disprove the conspiracy theory.However, even if both possibilities are equally as likely, I’m inclined to believe the option that isn’t convenient for the goobers on talk radio.

    Finally, we know that although Tencer, Michaels, (to a slightly lesser extent) Stauffer and others were running with this story, Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger weren’t.Is that because they’re not as plugged in?Or is it because they couldn’t get a firm enough source for these rumours to report them?

    In summary, we actually KNOW very little about what happened around the draft.And I’m sorry if I get upset when the usual management bashers try to pass off speculation as fact, but I think the purpose of having a community devoted to underlying numbers is to pursue facts and truth, not indulge in useless rounds of “saw em bad, saw em good”.

    I’m not arguing the process, mentioned in the previous tweet we’ll never know. However, there WAS something afoot in the period leading up to the draft–someone with enough torque to make some pretty connected people this was likely.

    I have little reason to be critical of the Oilers or MBS and his staff–in fact, at least one prominent blogger took it upon himself to write a post about my MBS defense.

    They got it right. I’m thrilled. I’m suggesting it was a close decision, not that I know how it went down. I believe the evidence strongly suggests same

  138. spoiler says:

    speeds: Why is that?It would give Hall better defensive help in the transition than, say, Hartikainen, if he’s struggling with faceoff Horcoff could take them for awhile.

    If you move Hall to C, someone has to stop playing C.RNH is fine at C, nothing wrong with Belanger at 4C.Guess you could move Gagner to wing?

    Well, why wouldn’t you just play Horc at C if they’re going to be on the same line? The better centre should play centre and the better winger should be on the wing.

    Unless the plan is to not win again next season?

  139. Jesse says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Also:

    His shooting percentage was 19.7% last year. Career average is 13.7

    Where are you getting this % from PJO? BTN has him at 11.17% for 11-12.

  140. LMHF#1 says:

    Jagr-Hall-Hemsky (though i prefer Eberle as the experimental C) would rip the cover off the ball, wouldn’t they?

  141. snipes67 says:

    Could Hemsky possibly be part of a Ryan deal with Anaheim?

  142. DSF says:

    Ducey:
    That’s a nice pick up for Feaster.


    Got a 25 goal scoring winger who hits like a truck

    DSF, the guy is 5’10″ and 180 lbs.He had 48 hits last year.In your not so subtle attempt to annoy Oilers fans, you have confused “hits like a truck” with “plays for someone other than the Oilers”.

    Even Kent Wilson is saying “meh”, as Hudler was a soft minutes guy with a high shooting percentage.He will do well to collect 40 pts a yr and won’t bring much more.

    Assuming the Flames are going to add Sven, they have about $2 million left in cap space.They are done.

    A smart troll would realize that his days of bugging Oilers fans are coming to an end as the team improves and would move to a Flames board.There is real potential there.

    I guess if you figure Feaster is all finished you might have a point and I seriously doubt that he is or you do.

    If, as rumoured he finds a new home for Jaybo he will have all kinds of cap space to play with.

    Baertschi’s ELC is only $1.4M and Feaster still has $4.2M free cap space as of today.

    A Jaybo trade makes almost anything possible and I think we can agree that Jaybo, despite his contract, will have tremendous value.

    My frustration with fans like you is you, under the sly guidance of Lowe, think there is only one way to build a winner.

    Now, I’m not convinced that Feaster is the guy that I would hand they keys to, but if he can land a big centre and another scoring winger in that transaction, he will have come a long way.

    The Flames have great goaltending, an above average defense and some guys who can put the puck in the net.

    Add some more playmaking and they have a solid team.

  143. FPB94 says:

    spoiler,

    Horcoff? Winning?

    The guy needs to be on the 3rd line and off the PP.

  144. jp says:

    speeds: Why is that?It would give Hall better defensive help in the transition than, say, Hartikainen, if he’s struggling with faceoff Horcoff could take them for awhile.

    If you move Hall to C, someone has to stop playing C.RNH is fine at C, nothing wrong with Belanger at 4C.Guess you could move Gagner to wing?

    Basically what I was going to say. Plus Horc as a LH shot on LW makes more sense than Gagner switching as a RH shot. Horc and Hall played pretty well together a couple of years ago. May be Horc scores 40 (pts) again…

    spoiler: Pffft. We traded for a defenseman with congenital foot problems and signed a senior citizen goalie with back issues. Cam Neely makes this team in a walk.

    He can still wallk, right?

    Not sure. Could probably find a way to prop him up in front of the net somehow though. Wouldn’t be much help getting the puck out of the corners to the kids, but he’d be sure to pot a few goals. May be an enquiry to Tim Kerr’s agent is in order too.

  145. Cactus says:

    Lowetide,

    It sounds like we’re not that far apart on what we see and my beef is better directed at others.

    And you’re right: at the end of the day, we’ve got Yakupov and he’s great. We also have Zharkov, and his shootout goal made Yakupov’s look positively amateurish!

  146. spoiler says:

    Jesse: Where are you getting this % from PJO? BTN has him at 11.17% for 11-12.

    I believe PJO got that from NHL.com.

  147. DSF says:

    Jesse: Where are you getting this % from PJO? BTN has him at 11.17% for 11-12.

    NHL.com has him at 19.7…just a tad higher than Eberle.

    Hudler scored 23 goals in 08/09 with a shooting percentage of 14.8.

    His career average is 13.7

  148. Lowetide says:

    Cactus:
    Lowetide,

    It sounds like we’re not that far apart on what we see and my beef is better directed at others.

    And you’re right: at the end of the day, we’ve got Yakupov and he’s great.We also have Zharkov, and his shootout goal made Yakupov’s look positively amateurish!

    It’s funny. Pronman had Zharkov #28 and if the Oilers took him at #32 most of the upset over the Oilers draft would never have seen the light of day. I’m thrilled they took Yakupov.

  149. copperblueandwhite says:

    spoiler,

    I cannot see Feaster trading JBo to Edmonton.

    Right, Feaster would be strung up…..we need Howson to make the trade…Bouw for Nash and a couple of ancilliary guys to make it Blockbuster….then we trade Hemmer, Petrell and Eager and a draft pick(s) ( L.A’s 2nd) to Howson…and bam..Stanley Cup….

  150. speeds says:

    Lowetide: It’s funny. Pronman had Zharkov #28 and if the Oilers took him at #32 most of the upset over the Oilers draft would never have seen the light of day. I’m thrilled they took Yakupov.

    That doesn’t mean that drafting Finn, Thrower, or Aberg as well as Zharkov later would have been looked down upon.

  151. Cactus says:

    Lowetide: It’s funny. Pronman had Zharkov #28 and if the Oilers took him at #32 most of the upset over the Oilers draft would never have seen the light of day. I’m thrilled they took Yakupov.

    I’m actually quite heartened by that. Much like the Gernat selection, it shows that the Oilers seem to have a decent understanding of how the rest of the NHL sees the draft class. We can quibble with the Moroz selection at 32, but there seem to be a number of reports (including one by Gregor) stating he wouldn’t last until the 3rd round.

  152. jp says:

    spoiler: Well, why wouldn’t you just play Horc at C if they’re going to be on the same line?The better centre should play centre and the better winger should be on the wing.

    Unless the plan is to not win again next season?

    If Hall can successfully transition to C and become Messier lite than the Oilers will have internally filled a hole that’s extremely difficult to fill otherwise (big C’s are harder to obtain than wingers). It might well negatively affect the teams success next year, but in the long run it could put them far ahead. If they think Hall can be that center, better to get started with the learning process now than wait a year or two. He might even be able to win a faceoff or two by the time Horc is waived/retires.
    I think Horc could teach him a lot if they played together – he knows how to be an excellent 2-way C, his body just isn’t cooperating like it used to.

  153. sliderule says:

    I have spent three days watching at the camp and I can see what the scouts were concerned about with Yakupov.

    The tradeoff is the skill level in scoring he shows at the camp level is way higher than the Nuge and Hall.Like a spirited colt he will have to be handled carefully by coaches and management or there could be a few problems with his development.

  154. bookje says:

    No more than 4-5 people in the Oilers organization knew what the pick was going to be, so If the director of pro scouting whispered to someone that “murray is the pick”, it doesn’t matter because he didn’t actually ever know. Believing something because the Treena’s of the world repeated it to one another at great frequency is a pretty poor way of decision making.

    Stu said the #1 pick was the same on the day of the draft as it was 6 months before. I think it was pretty obvious all along that it was Yak and I have a hard time understanding how someone can look back on the process and conclude anything different from the data we have available to us.

  155. bookje says:

    Lowetide: I’m not arguing the process, mentioned in the previous tweet we’ll never know. However, there WAS something afoot in the period leading up to the draft–someone with enough torque to make some pretty connected people this was likely.

    I have little reason to be critical of the Oilers or MBS and his staff–in fact, at least one prominent blogger took it upon himself to write a post about my MBS defense.

    They got it right. I’m thrilled. I’m suggesting it was a close decision, not that I know how it went down. I believe the evidence strongly suggests same

    I think it’s quite possible it was close and that some inside people believed it was Murray thus resulting in the rumors.

  156. Traktor says:

    Feaster should have just signed Wellwood.

    What a silly GM.

  157. Cactus says:

    jp: If Hall can successfully transition to C and become Messier lite than the Oilers will have internally filled a hole that’s extremely difficult to fill otherwise (big C’s are harder to obtain than wingers). It might well negatively affect the teams success next year, but in the long run it could put them far ahead. If they think Hall can be that center, better to get started with the learning process now than wait a year or two. He might even be able to win a faceoff or two by the time Horc is waived/retires.
    I think Horc could teach him a lot if they played together – he knows how to be an excellent 2-way C, his body just isn’t cooperating like it used to.

    I know it seems to be NHL gospel that you build a team up the middle, but we should be able to solve the debate about Hall to C in a simple way.

    Two questions:

    1) Will Hall be a better player at C than LW?
    2) Even if the answer is no to Question 1, can the Oilers fill the open LW position with greater talent than they could fill the C position?

    My answers:
    1) No. At best it’s a wash.
    2) Gagner is better as a 2C than Hartikainen, Paajarvi or Smyth are as a #1LW.

    This seems like a pretty clear situation to me.

  158. speeds says:

    Cactus: I know it seems to be NHL gospel that you build a team up the middle, but we should be able to solve the debate about Hall to C in a simple way.

    Two questions:

    1) Will Hall be a better player at C than LW?
    2) Even if the answer is no to Question 1, can the Oilers fill the open LW position with greater talent than they could fill the C position?

    My answers:
    1) No.At best it’s a wash.
    2) Gagner is better as a 2C than Hartikainen, Paajarvi or Smyth are as a #1LW.

    This seems like a pretty clear situation to me.

    Even if Hall is a “worse” player at C, if it’s true that C is a much more valuable position, the team could be improved by him playing C than LW even if he’s a slightly worse player putting up fewer points – a side benefit being he potentially commands less money if he’s putting up fewer points, even if he provides more value.

  159. DeadmanWaking says:

    Halfwise,

    I’ve been arguing your points piecewise for several years now, as the glass-half-full view of glacial progress. Your Gilbert point is a bit of Hail Mary. That might have been a consideration. It’s just too risky in isolation as a move to set the table on a crap shoot, unless you’re determined to fill the slot for a 2nd young puck-mover come hell or high water and JS is just your first salvo.

    Where you seem to struggle pulling the narrative together is with the price of tickets. When we open our wallets wide, there’s a tendency to make favourable assumptions about what we’re buying. But it’s entirely clear to those of us with our wallets welded shut that the world doesn’t work that way. In a bad year, the price of your ticket is an option to renew in a good year. Good performance comes from good draft picks. Good draft picks come from bad performance. Hope is an option, not a bond.

    Plus, how does Katz & Co. sell the province on chipping in $100m for a new arena against declining revenues (either lower prices or declining attendance)? Sports is not value-driven on the retail side. Prices are set by the greater fool. Sell the sizzle, not the steak. I empathize with fans in paid attendance after three years of sizzle-foreplay. You’re always hoping in Act III that the hot date invokes the mercy rule. Three strikes and I’m way grumpy. It’s the male code.

    Kunis has two main looks: 1) never a sour moment, and 2) sour moment. What does that signify here? From Obsessed Fan:

    “To do a movie on a television show with a character couple takes a lot of personality training,” explained Mr. Kumpfer. “To make it seem real, they have to react to each other as if they were a real life couple, so it only makes sense that they would start pseudo-dating in order to get that camaraderie back. That’s what great actors do. It has nothing to do with any real feelings, since Mila is destined to marry me.”

  160. FPB94 says:

    Price signs for 6 years. Good lord i hope they don’t make bad teams’ mistake. (Goalie overpay).

  161. jb says:

    Lowetide:

    They got it right. I’m thrilled. I’m suggesting it was a close decision, not that I know how it went down. I believe the evidence strongly suggests same

    There was quite obviously Yakupov, a gap, then everyone else… They said they hadn’t wavered from the consensus #1 all year… and admitted the gap had lessened some… that’s it.
    Are the conspiracy theorists working under the assumption that the majority of our scouting staff is so inept that they couldn’t see the fairly wide gap and decided Murray should go 1? yea right…

    Only certain dumbass’s in the media took any of it as “Murray over Yakupov”. BS spreads faster than than an unchecked wildfire online if it’s what people wanna hear..

    Yes they like Murray(everyone does), but they never liked Murray OVER Yakupov. It’s a fact.
    This draft DID reveal who’s full of shit..

  162. Cactus says:

    speeds: Even if Hall is a “worse” player at C, if it’s true that C is a much more valuable position, the team could be improved by him playing C than LW even if he’s a slightly worse player putting up fewer points – a side benefit being he potentially commands less money if he’s putting up fewer points, even if he provides more value.

    Then what of the second question Speeds? If you have to introduce lesser talent at LW to accomodate Hall’s move to C, then the cost of him at C grows further.

    If you have the best centres in the world, but no wingers, you’re not accomplishing much.

  163. Lowetide says:

    FPB94:
    Price signs for 6 years. Good lord i hope they don’t make bad teams’ mistake. (Goalie overpay).

    I wonder what we’ll think about the Hall, Eberle and Nuge extensions when the Oilers start buying free agent years. Could be chilling!

  164. PDO says:

    DSF: I guess if you figure Feaster is all finished you might have a point and I seriously doubt that he is or you do.

    If, as rumoured he finds a new home for Jaybo he will have all kinds of cap space to play with.

    Baertschi’sELC is only $1.4M and Feaster still has $4.2M free cap space as of today.

    A Jaybo trade makes almost anything possible and I think we can agree that Jaybo, despite his contract, will have tremendous value.

    My frustration with fans like you is you, under the sly guidance of Lowe, think there is only one way to build a winner.

    Now, I’m not convinced that Feaster is the guy that I would hand they keys to, but if he can land a big centre and another scoring winger in that transaction, he will have come a long way.

    The Flames have great goaltending, an above average defense and some guys who can put the puck in the net.

    Add some more playmaking and they have a solid team.

    Of course they trade away Bouwmeester and suddenly have a below average defense.

    Talking out of both sides of your mouth again I see.

    Hudler is a midget forward that’s poor defensively and despite playing 70% of his ice time with Zetterberg, having a career year in shooting % (19.3), the second highest on ice shooting % among Wings forwards at 5v5 and the highest on ice shooting % among Wing forwards at 5v4… put up a whopping 3 more points than Gagner.

    The Flame’s just spent $16,000,000 on a poor mans Gagner.

  165. FPB94 says:

    Lowetide,

    I don’t mind paying players some prime, just goalies.

  166. speeds says:

    Cactus: Then what of the second question Speeds?If you have to introduce lesser talent at LW to accomodate Hall’s move to C, then the cost of him at C grows further.

    If you have the best centres in the world, but no wingers, you’re not accomplishing much.

    How does moving Hall to C mean the team has no wingers? The team seems to be looking for more wins next season, but they aren’t only looking at next season.

    F’s in LT’s top 20 (ignoring Yakupov) in the system:

    C:

    Lander

    W:

    Hartikainen
    Hamilton
    Pitlick
    Rieder
    Zharkov
    Khaira
    Cornet
    Moroz

    LT’s list is also missing Paajarvi, even though he was in the AHL at the end of the year

  167. Lowetide says:

    jb: There was quite obviously Yakupov, a gap, then everyone else… They said they hadn’t wavered from the consensus #1 all year… and admitted the gap had lessened some… that’s it.
    Are the conspiracy theorists working under the assumption that the majority of our scouting staff is so inept that they couldn’t see the fairly wide gap and decided Murray should go 1? yea right…

    Only certain dumbass’s in the media took any of it as “Murray over Yakupov”. BS spreads faster than than an unchecked wildfire online if it’s what people wanna hear..

    Yes they like Murray(everyone does), but they never liked Murray OVER Yakupov. It’s a fact.
    This draft DID reveal who’s full of shit..

    You would have to speak to the conspiracy theorists on that one. Again, I think we’re yelling across a canyon as opposed to hearing each other. I’m not saying there’s inside knowledge available, I’m saying that the event as it took place did not match the events surrounding it.

    Your posts suggests that people are either lying, bullshitting for a specific reason or idiots. I don’t believe any of those things and can’t believe that many people would bother to waste time if there wasn’t something there.

    I’ll end the conversation on this, but am surprised how people have made a decision on something that was so clearly far from black and white.

    It’s been an education.

  168. spoiler says:

    jp: If Hall can successfully transition to C and become Messier lite than the Oilers will have internally filled a hole that’s extremely difficult to fill otherwise (big C’s are harder to obtain than wingers). It might well negatively affect the teams success next year, but in the long run it could put them far ahead. If they think Hall can be that center, better to get started with the learning process now than wait a year or two. He might even be able to win a faceoff or two by the time Horc is waived/retires.
    I think Horc could teach him a lot if they played together – he knows how to be an excellent 2-way C, his body just isn’t cooperating like it used to.

    Hall and Horc are about the same size, Gagner is shorter but as heavy.

    Horc is a workout freak, there is nothing wrong with his body.

    If Hall is moving to centre it will likely be because Gagner or Horcoff were traded.

    Which is a different story, and I will re-consider the winger issue if that comes to pass.

    But as the roster stands right now, I would want Taylor Hall to be the first forward on the attack. Not placed in a position where he will usually be the last.

    But I still really don’t get the premise…

    Putting Horc there mentors Hall better how? Did Adam Oates have to play wing with Stoll to mentor him?

    If the idea is instead to give the line some defensive capability (as speeds says) then why even make the move if Horc is going to be the last guy back anyway?

    But I’m really not a big fan of the Hall at C idea. I think it will work out about the same as the. Smytty experiment.

  169. PDO says:

    Derek Roy for Steve Ott and Adam Pardy.

    Wow.

    Ott’s a nice player, but that’s a heckuva return.

  170. PDO says:

    Lowetide: You would have to speak to the conspiracy theorists on that one. Again, I think we’re yelling across a canyon as opposed to hearing each other. I’m not saying there’s inside knowledge available, I’m saying that the event as it took place did not match the events surrounding it.

    Your posts suggests that people are either lying, bullshitting for a specific reason or idiots. I don’t believe any of those things and can’t believe that many people would bother to waste time if there wasn’t something there.

    I’ll end the conversation on this, but am surprised how people have made a decision on something that was so clearly far from black and white.

    It’s been an education.

    You’ve clearly never debated Religion with anyone :).

  171. Lowetide says:

    PDO: You’ve clearly never debated Religion with anyone :) .

    lol. All of the truly religious people I’ve ever known love demon liquor MORE than me, so we’ve gotten along famously. :-)

  172. bookje says:

    I just want us all to get along!

    Calgary is terrible! Agree?

  173. Lowetide says:

    PDO:
    Derek Roy for Steve Ott and Adam Pardy.

    Wow.

    Ott’s a nice player, but that’s a heckuva return.

    Traktor asked me yesterday if I’d deal Gagner for Ott and I said not but Ott was a fine player. That is such an interesting trade.

  174. skidplate says:

    So, would anyone have done Hemsky for Ott and Pardy?

  175. godot10 says:

    skidplate:
    So, would anyone have done Hemsky for Ott and Pardy?

    Dallas wouldn’t have. They were looking to replace Ribeiro. And they signed Whitney yesterday.

  176. skidplate says:

    I would not.

  177. Traktor says:

    PDO:
    Derek Roy for Steve Ott and Adam Pardy.

    Wow.

    Ott’s a nice player, but that’s a heckuva return.

    That’s a steal for Buffalo.

    Roy is a better version Hudler/Gagner/Wellwood

  178. PDO says:

    Roy’s a tough minute muncher who is more or less a 70 point guy.

    Dallas wins this trade in a landslide imo.

  179. skidplate says:

    godot10,

    Good point, they needed the center.

  180. PDO says:

    Traktor: That’s a steal for Buffalo.

    I would have offered Gagner.

    I think Dallas runs away with it unless Roy’s dip in performance this year was permanent due to the injury in 10-11.

    If he’s still a 70 pt guy, there’s no way they win that trade.

    Being an asshole is worth something, but it’s not worth 30 points and a slot down the lineup. Ott’s not playing #1 C in Buffalo, and it’s doubtful he’s playing #2 C either.

  181. Lowetide says:

    PDO: I think Dallas runs away with it unless Roy’s dip in performance this year was permanent due to the injury in 10-11.

    If he’s still a 70 pt guy, there’s no way they win that trade.

    Agreed, but Ott is a useful player and a guy I felt Edmonton might look at this summer (also Morrow). Hmm. This is why I love trades! DAL with the win, but I do like that player on Buffalo.

  182. jp says:

    Cactus: I know it seems to be NHL gospel that you build a team up the middle, but we should be able to solve the debate about Hall to C in a simple way.

    Two questions:

    1) Will Hall be a better player at C than LW?
    2) Even if the answer is no to Question 1, can the Oilers fill the open LW position with greater talent than they could fill the C position?

    My answers:
    1) No.At best it’s a wash.
    2) Gagner is better as a 2C than Hartikainen, Paajarvi or Smyth are as a #1LW.

    This seems like a pretty clear situation to me.

    1) My meaning of “successful transition to C” would be that he is an equally good player there as at LW (or at least close to it). Unfortunately we obviously can’t know whether this will be the case until the experiment is well under way. If the Oil management think it’s worth trying Hall at C then they also appear to see some potential for upside there in the long run.
    2) This coming season I would agree the answer is probably no. However my hope would be that Yak might be able to slide over to the left side without too much difficulty. While our organizational skill on the wings isn’t balanced L/R, it is overall MUCH better than what we have up the middle. We all hope the Oil will be thinking about serious cup runs before too long, and Horc and Belanger will be gone or on their last legs then (could argue they are now). In 2 years RNH, Hall, Gagner, Lander down the middle will look a lot better than RNH, Gagner, Lander, ???? So yes, I think they can ice better LW talent with Hall at C going forward compared to the C talent they can ice with Hall at LW.

    spoiler: Hall and Horc are about the same size, Gagner is shorter but as heavy.

    Horc is a workout freak, there is nothing wrong with his body.

    If Hall is moving to centre it will likely be because Gagner or Horcoff were traded.

    Which is a different story, and I will re-consider the winger issue if that comes to pass.

    But as the roster stands right now, I would want Taylor Hall to be the first forward on the attack. Not placed in a position where he will usually be the last.

    But I still really don’t get the premise…

    Putting Horc there mentors Hall better how? Did Adam Oates have to play wing with Stoll to mentor him?

    If the idea is instead to give the line some defensive capability (as speeds says) then why even make the move if Horc is going to be the last guy back anyway?

    But I’m really not a big fan of the Hall at C idea. I think it will work out about the same as the. Smytty experiment.

    They’re similar sizes, but I think Hall will likely still grow some, and it appears he may be stronger than the others even now.

    I know Horc’s a workout freak. It seems to me his hand-eye coordination is deteriorating though, can’t seem to handle/shoot a puck cleanly anymore. That’s what I meant.

    I most definitely agree that as the roster stands now moving Hall to C makes little sense. Just the lack of depth at C (and inevitible departure of Horcoff/Belanger in the next couple of years) and Hall’s potential ability to be a big strong center who could handle the Getzlaf/Thornton’s of the NHL make this a potentially very good move for the team 2 years down the road.

  183. FPB94 says:

    6,5 M$ per… Good lord haven’t they learned.

  184. Traktor says:

    I think Buffalo can replace Roy easier than Dallas can replace Ott. Even if its a slight downgrade.

    Ott is the best player in the league in his role.

    Buffalo drafts Grigorenko and Girgensons and now trade for Ott. Smart.

  185. Rondo says:

    LT,

    I thought Daniel Winnik would be gone by now, you think he is asking too much?

  186. Lowetide says:

    Rondo:
    LT,

    I thought Daniel Winnik would be gone by now,you think he is asking too much?

    I don’t know. He didn’t have huge boxcars and although he has good secondary numbers maybe teams have him on their B list. I’d be very happy with Winnik for that 3line.

  187. PDO says:

    Traktor:
    I think Buffalo can replace Roy easier than Dallas can replace Ott. Even if its a slight downgrade.

    Ott is the best player in the league in his role.

    Buffalo drafts Grigorenko and Girgensons and now trade for Ott. Smart.

    Problem being, Grigorenko and Grigensons should both be 2-3 years away, no?

    There’s also a reason Steve Ott was available, and it has everything to do with his mittens being cemented to his hands. His act wore old in that room, and it will in Buffalo too.

  188. Woodguy says:

    Cochrane to EDM in under 3hrs.

    Made good time.

    Once Parise and Suter sign, then Nash and Ryan can be traded, then we’ll see the Oiler trade.

    LT”s been calling for a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 the last couple years, but I think one is actually coming.

    Might be a 4 for 3.

  189. Ducey says:

    My frustration with fans like you is you, under the sly guidance of Lowe, think there is only one way to build a winner.

    Now, I’m not convinced that Feaster is the guy that I would hand they keys to, but if he can land a big centre and another scoring winger in that transaction, he will have come a long way.

    The Flames have great goaltending, an above average defense and some guys who can put the puck in the net.

    Add some more playmaking and they have a solid team.

    I doubt you would call them a contender. Would you? Can you see them getting there at this rate? No. And that’s kind of the point.

    The Oilers are not going to be winning the Cup this year either but you can see the day when they might be. The Flames just keep shuffling around core players who continue to age, lose value and ability. Its hard to see removing Hannan and Jokinen (their 2nd highest scorer) and adding Hudler, Cvenka and Wideman as much of an upgrade. In the process they further tied their hands with some big contracts. In fact, they got rid of $4 million a year and added $10 million a year along with longer term committments and a NMC.

    As PDO points out, if they remove JBo they no longer have much of a defense. Add they will not get an upgrade in talent because they will trade for established players and not prospects.

    I agree, there is more than one way to rebuild. You don’t have to draft 1st overall every year, but you have to draft well and you have to be able to add top end young players. FLA, MINN have done a good job of rebuilding on the fly but they again, draft and develop well.

    CGY on the other hand has two prospects: (Sven), and a goalie they will have to expose to waivers (Irving) or have as a backup. This year they went off the board for a highschool kid ranked 41st. The Oilers got Nail. Who is closer to a Cup?

    They could realize they can’t draft and tried to flip a few vets for other teams’ prospects (Iginla would bring a healthy return) but they continue to overpay for middling players who don’t solve their problems.

    There is simply no reasonable explanation for their behaviour.

  190. stevezie says:

    Lowetide,

    This is moving the conversation back awhile, but didn’t the warden call her “fuzzy britches”? Because of the fur bikini? Not that it matters much, to be honest I just like the sound of “fussy britches”.

    Traktor,

    I agree that Steve Ott is better at being Steve Ott than Roy is at being Derek Roy, but I value a Derek Roy more. I am curious to see what Ott and Kaleta do together, because as I recall being paired with Avery sent Ott off the deep end.

    I don’t know if Kaleta talks that much though, or if he mostly lets his play do the irritating.

  191. Traktor says:

    PDO: Problem being, Grigorenko and Grigensons should both be 2-3 years away, no?

    Grigorenko and Grigensons might be a few years away but I like how they are building with some size, skill, and grit down the middle.

  192. spoiler says:

    jp: 1) My meaning of “successful transition to C” would be that he is an equally good player there as at LW (or at least close to it). Unfortunately we obviously can’t know whether this will be the case until the experiment is well under way. If the Oil management think it’s worth trying Hall at C then they also appear to see some potential for upside there in the long run.
    2) This coming season I would agree the answer is probably no. However my hope would be that Yak might be able to slide over to the left side without too much difficulty. While our organizational skill on the wings isn’t balanced L/R, it is overall MUCH better than what we have up the middle. We all hope the Oil will be thinking about serious cup runs before too long, and Horc and Belanger will be gone or on their last legs then (could argue they are now). In 2 years RNH, Hall, Gagner, Lander down the middle will look a lot better than RNH, Gagner, Lander, ???? So yes, I think they can ice better LW talent with Hall at C going forward compared to the C talent they can ice with Hall at LW.

    They’re similar sizes, but I think Hall will likely still grow some, and it appears he may be stronger than the others even now.

    I know Horc’s a workout freak. It seems to me his hand-eye coordination is deteriorating though, can’t seem to handle/shoot a puck cleanly anymore. That’s what I meant.

    I most definitely agree that as the roster stands now moving Hall to C makes little sense. Just the lack of depth at C (and inevitible departure of Horcoff/Belanger in the next couple of years) and Hall’s potential ability to be a big strong center who could handle the Getzlaf/Thornton’s of the NHL make this a potentially very good move for the team 2 years down the road.

    Do you want Hall as the trailer on the breakout? Do you want him as the high forward in the zone, and the first forward back on D?

    Or would you rather just sign Olli Jokinen?

  193. stevezie says:

    Woodguy,

    I fear you’re right. I am so excited to see a healthy Hemsky on a decent roster, and I’m afraid that’ll only happen when his new team hits town.

    If the 4 for 3 (or whatever) doesn’t involve Ales than I’m dancing, because yeah, obviously, that’s what needs to happen. What teams need depth at the mediocrity position though?

  194. speeds says:

    spoiler: Do you want Hall as the trailer on the breakout? Do you want him as the high forward in the zone, and the first forward back on D?

    Or would you rather just sign Olli Jokinen?

    I like the idea of Hall playing C, because playing C he’ll be around the puck more and in a couple of years as he adds strength I think he’ll be willing more than his share of puck battles.

    With his speed he can catch up to the rush better than most/nearly all players.

    If he proves to be incapable of playing C well enough to justify moving him from LW, then fine, move him back.

    I also don’t really buy the Jokinen argument, because if Hall works out at C I think you’d have an easier time finding a LW via UFA in a year or two than a C via UFA.

  195. striatic says:

    spitballing – would anyone here do Jones for Kulemin straight up?

  196. Lowetide says:

    Yes. A thousand times.

  197. striatic says:

    would Burke?

  198. stevezie says:

    Depends how badly the contract talks are going. If Kulemin is looking to be paid like a 30 goal scorer than Burke would probably trade him. Jones’ numbers make it seem fair, but since the guy can’t even gain any traction here I’m not too confident in his valuable reputation around the league.

  199. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: I don’t know. He didn’t have huge boxcars and although he has good secondary numbers maybe teams have him on their B list. I’d be very happy with Winnik for that 3line.

    The Oilers 3rd line wingers are Smyth and Hemsky. I think they are better than Winnik.

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