OILERS SIGN HORDICHUK

I’m very pleased with this move. Player who can play in the enforcer/protector role and miles less expensive than the crazy dollars being spent elsewhere.

It’s 1-year, $850,000. Thank you Baby Jesus.

THE SHOPPING LIST

  1. A top pairing defenseman capable of delivering big minutes at evens and at least one of PK and PP. 20+ overall. The range of player rumors in this category is vexing. Marc Methot is not going to fill this role, but he is rumored to be the player headed here. Bryan Allen and Mark Streit have also been rumored to Edmonton.
  2. A better Renney. I think yesterday was a very big day for Krueger. Based on reports, the key moments in the Schultz negotiations came when the new coach gave his vision and Schultz plus Hall started riffing on the possibilities. I imagine an Allman Brothers-style jam session that resulted in absolute magic. Can’t wait to see the vision on the ice.
  3. Justin Schultz or similar. Huge item for the Oilers. Should he emerge as a top 4, 35+ point defenseman who can handle reasonable opposition and remain in the black, Edmonton’s hard work this past week will sustain them for a decade on the blue. Brilliant.
  4. An established 2-way winger to mentor the young players who will compete for bottom 6 roles (Lander, Hartikainen, Pitlick, etc). Winnik is my choice here, but the Oilers may have someone else in mind. I always say Pisani but maybe this man is a center.
  5. Ryan Smyth or similar. The extra year was the issue but the price tag is excellent. I think those who believe Smyth’s value to this team is low badly misunderstand what he can do for this team. They need to back off his special team minutes but this is a quality signing. Beauty
  6. A reasonable goaltending option for the Khabibulin free fall. Danis is a solid option, his .924SP with the Barons a year ago was safely inside the AHL’s top 10 and he gives the club excellent insurance. A solid signing.
  7. Get the rfa’s signed. Did a good job qualifying, but the Oilers often trade kids in this situation and Gagner isn’t out of the woods yet. Happy Omark was qualified, doubt he plays as an Oiler again.
  8. Crust. Hordichuk is perfectly suitable in this role, as I put forward in the RE series. I expect the Oilers will attempt to grab Tootoo this afternoon, so part of the crust remains uncrossed.

One final item: as part of the RE for Hordichuk, I wrote:

  1. What’s the solution? Get good players, and if you must have an enforcer re-sign Darcy Hordichuk and flush Ben Eager.
  2. Do you think the Oilers will do that? I think they’ll try to trade Eager, seemed pretty mad at him after the late March sequence against CBJ’s Jared Boll. Eager was on the ice but didn’t go after Boll, I’m certain the Oilers noticed it because the verbal after that was about protecting the kids for a few news cycles.
  3. Enough about Eager. What else does Hordichuk offer? That’s about it. 4 minutes a night half the nights on the schedule and he’ll man up anytime, anywhere.
  4. That’s worth a roster spot? The Oilers think so, and this is reasonable expectations which is designed to take personal opinion out of it.
  5. Just the facts? Yes.
  6. How about some personal opinions. Personal opinions are boring, everyone has one and I’m a fan with personal bias. What do I know?
  7. Don’t be a baby. Okay. Will Hordichuk be in the NHL next season? Yes.
  8. Will he be an Oiler? Yes.
  9. You could not be more wrong. Good grief.

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107 Responses to "OILERS SIGN HORDICHUK"

  1. Noodles says:

    Well, if they insist on having a useless knuckle-dragger on the roster, I suppose a cheap, useless knuckle-dragger on a 1-year deal is better than an expensive, useless knuckle-dragger on a long-term deal.

    Still don’t like wasting a roster spot on this type of player, though.

  2. Doug McLachlan says:

    Can’t imagine he costs Prust or Parros money, so good by me.

  3. Lucinius says:

    Not a fan of this. Sure, cheaper than other options, I guess, but I just don’t see the need for an enforcer/tough guy who can’t play the game well enough to warrant a spot on the roster night in, night out.

  4. godot10 says:

    Best solution is to have the #1 PP in the league, and the toughness problem is solved.

  5. Lucinius says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    Can’t imagine he costs Prust or Parros money, so good by me.

    I don’t know.. Parros is apparently 950k a year, two year deal in Florida.

  6. admiralmark says:

    Woulda rather had Parros… Apparently we could of but Oilers wouldnt commit to a 2 yr deal? (according to Treenasoil)

  7. Noodles says:

    Dan Tencer ‏@dantencer

    Anyone complaining about Hordichuk signing has no concept of how important positive energy is around the team.

    Oh, Tencer.

  8. Ryan says:

    godot10:
    Best solution is to have the #1 PP in the league, and the toughness problem is solved.

    I agree 100% Godot.

    Just like it worked for us last season.

    Drew Doughty blows up Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Pu00dGkhY
    Raffi Torres blows up Jordan Eberle:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRzzZ8GUkig
    Cory Sarich hit on Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wttzK-Q_Frk
    Cal Clutterbuck hits Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq_cNZjaSK0
    Justin Abdelkater huge hit on Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T786xEHJcQ
    Ryan Wilson Injures Taylor Hall with Huge Hit:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsMJ–5a8Ps
    Alexander Edler Levels Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70xInr4WoQo
    Handzus Boards Hemsky:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3YSV01FGho
    Dan Boyle levels Jordan Eberle:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PdBu3SUyk
    Nugent-Hopkins gets run over by Oreskovich
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pyzYyqeC6s

  9. Ryan says:

    Noodles:
    Well, if they insist on having a useless knuckle-dragger on the roster, I suppose a cheap, useless knuckle-dragger on a 1-year deal is better than an expensive, useless knuckle-dragger on a long-term deal.

    Still don’t like wasting a roster spot on this type of player, though.

    Ray Shero must be pretty stupid I guess. He signed Tanner Glass, SMAC, and he has Lovejoy and Engelland.

    It’s a wonder the Pens fans haven’t been calling for Shero’s head for such stupid player acquisitions.

  10. justDOit says:

    My only hope now is that Krueger can use him more effectively than Reney did, because his effectiveness last year was pretty much non-existent.

  11. PDO says:

    I’m content simply because they could have done so much worse…. it’s not a good signing but I’ll take it over some of the other options.

  12. Traktor says:

    Trading Gagner for Steve Ott would add crust.

    This just adds a shitty hockey player.

  13. Noodles says:

    Ryan,

    Well, what is the point of having Hordichuk on the roster? As you demonstrated in your previous post, the kids were still getting run over last year even with him on the roster. Re-signing him doesn’t cripple the team or anything, but I don’t see how it helps.

  14. Lewko says:

    Traktor:
    Trading Gagner for Steve Ott would add crust.

    This just adds a shitty hockey player.

    This…

  15. Ryan says:

    Traktor:
    Trading Gagner for Steve Ott would add crust.

    This just adds a shitty hockey player.

    Agreed. However, I was relieved to see the contract was 1 x .850

  16. PunjabiOil says:

    Why not add a bit more and Get Parros (who got 950K)?

    850K for Hordichuk

  17. justDOit says:

    Ryan: Ray Shero must be pretty stupid I guess.He signed Tanner Glass, SMAC, and he has Lovejoy and Engelland.

    It’s a wonder the Pens fans haven’t been calling for Shero’s head for such stupid player acquisitions.

    All those deterrents on the roster, and still Sid gets the cheap shots.

  18. Lowetide says:

    The best thing about this is if they add anything now then Eager’s slot is in trouble. Would the group be agreeable to flushing Eager for Tootoo?

  19. Doug McLachlan says:

    Lowetide:
    The best thing about this is if they add anything now then Eager’s slot is in trouble. Would the group be agreeable to flushing Eager for Tootoo?

    Is there a third option?

  20. Lowetide says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Why not add a bit more and Get Parros (who got 950K)?

    850K for Hordichuk

    Second year probably the disconnect, and we don’t know that he would have chosen Edmonton if the money and term matched the actual deal he signed.

  21. admiralmark says:

    PunjabiOil: Why not add a bit more and Get Parros (who got 950K)?850K for Hordichuk

    Absolutely 100% agree Parros woulda been better… I also dont believe this move is critical one way or another as i believe they need to add a top 6 player that has sand paper rather then a fighter on skates

  22. Ryan says:

    I can’t answer your question. I can’t defend the Hordichuk signing.

    What we do know is having Smac glare at players from the PB or getting 45 seconds of ice time for a staged heavy weight fight does nothing.

    We also know that Eager wasn’t up to the task of stepping in for teammates.

    And we know that Hordichuk asking guys to dance, then getting declined did little.

    All I’m saying Noodles is I’m

    a. Tired of seeing Taylor Hall and the gifted ones get run over
    b. Don’t think a PP alone is a deterrent.

    I do think we need more guys up and down the roster who will step up to defend a teammate. Guys who can still play hockey.

    Noodles:
    Ryan,

    Well, what is the point of having Hordichuk on the roster? As you demonstrated in your previous post, the kids were still getting run over last year even with him on the roster. Re-signing him doesn’t cripple the team or anything, but I don’t see how it helps.

  23. Ryan says:

    No one notice Penner 1x 3.25 with Kings?

  24. Ryan says:

    justDOit: All those deterrents on the roster, and still Sid gets the cheap shots.

    Would there be less if they didn’t have them?

  25. Lucinius says:

    Not surprised to see Penner re-sign there. Works for both parties with little risk for LA.

  26. Lowetide says:

    Ryan: But that’s a different story. George Parros left Anaheim because he wanted to play more, and the Ducks felt he didn’t have that gear. If we’re talking about adding a player like Lucic or Backes then I’m onside all the way.

    Darcy Hordichuk won’t be on the ice with the Nuge, and the same holds true for Parros

  27. Traktor says:

    Lowetide:
    The best thing about this is if they add anything now then Eager’s slot is in trouble. Would the group be agreeable to flushing Eager for Tootoo?

    I don’t think switching Eager for Tootoo would make a huge difference.

    Eager was pretty good last year when he played a regular shift.

  28. Ryan says:

    Then yeah Lowetide, we’re both in agreement.

    Lowetide:
    Ryan: But that’s a different story. George Parros left Anaheim because he wanted to play more, and the Ducks felt he didn’t have that gear. If we’re talking about adding a player like Lucic or Backes then I’m onside all the way.

    Darcy Hordichuk won’t be on the ice with the Nuge, and the same holds true for Parros

  29. Ryan says:

    What would it take to get Backes? I’ve been dreaming about that for a long time… lol

  30. Kris11 says:

    If you keep Smyth, Hordichuk, Petrell Jones, and Eager in the lineup and you add Yakupov, you’re running oit of spots on the 23 man roster for the waiver elligible players.

    Hall-Gagner-Hemsky
    Smyth-Horcoff-Eberle
    Jones-RNH-Yakupov
    Eager-Belanger-Petrell
    Hordichuk

    Smid-Petry
    Schultz-Schultz
    Whitney-Potter
    Sutton, Peckham

    Dubnyk
    Khabibulin

    That’s 23, with no Omark, Hartikainen, MPS, Lander. I know the latter 3 don’t have to clear waivers, and Omark will clear town one way or the other.

    But without trades, the Oilers have a full lineup now, no?

    And with all the kids that are currently ready for the AHL, do the Oilers sign fewer AHL free agents like Keller?

  31. Yeti says:

    Lowetide: If we’re talking about adding a player like Lucic

    I thought we just drafted him?

  32. Kris11 says:

    Why are people taking shots at Zona here. He has a blog. If you want to diss him, do it to his face. Punks.

  33. Lowetide says:

    Ryan:
    What would it take to get Backes?I’ve been dreaming about that for a long time… lol

    Well, that’s the problem. :-) They only trade them when they break.

  34. Traktor says:

    Lowetide

    Would you trade Gagner for Ott?

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    This is basically a waste of a roster spot and a 50 man spot.

    Everyone chiming in that they are glad it is only 1 year and only 850000 says a lot. You expected much worse and that in itself has sold you (somewhat) on the deal.

    His 3mins every 3rd game or so isn’t going to do anything. You don’t hire a guy like this to toughen up your team. He’s not on the ice long enough to make a difference.

    You hire a guy like this to have one of those god awful staged fights that leave the soccer moms both weak at the knees with the vapors and wet between them with the excitement of violence.

    That kind of fight doesn’t do any of the things people claim it does. It doesn’t back people off star players, it doesn’t intimidate or keep people honest… why? because the other knuckle-head isn’t on the ice long enough to damage a star player either.

    You want crust with minutes. You have to get it or make Eager and Petrell look deep into the abyss, pull them out at the last second, put the smelling salts to them and yell “kick some ass damnit!” and hope some recessive gene kicks in and they sandpaper everything that moves.

  36. NB_Oiler_Fan says:

    I don’t like this move. Sure the dollars are lower, but as the saying goes, you get what you pay for. Hordichuk is not an effective enforcer, IMO. Would have been nice to acquire a player that not only fills the role but can add a bit more to the play as well.

    The kids are going to continue to get run with no payback.

    Meh.

  37. Lowetide says:

    Traktor: .

    No, but that doesn’t mean that Ott has no value. He’d be a very good acquisition

  38. Ryan says:

    Kris11,

    I don’t feel that I took a person shot a Zona.

    I read him regularly and he’s an excellent blogger from a numbers guy perspective.

    I do however disagree with my perception of his philosophy towards bottom of the roster players.

    My perception/opinion (correct me if I’m wrong) is that he devalues physical players and tends to overvalue skill players like Linus Omark. That’s not uncommon for many bloggers who spend too much time looking at BTN (which is an excellent site).

    See: http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/5/22/3035716/how-much-will-sam-gagner-need-to-improve-to-keep-oilers-fans-happy

    “Those numbers in a present-day context place Gagner as the 38th-highest scoring centre in the NHL. Currently, Gagner sits 44th A 15% improvement places Gagner 32nd in scoring by NHL centres. Is a top-ten second line centre good enough for Oilers’ fans?”

    Not here to start a debate with him, but his article touts Gagner’s offensive production at the neglect of his QOT/QOC/Zonestarts, not to mention that Sam doesn’t PK.

    IMO, Gagner is a good hockey player. One that’s most effective when paired with skilled linemates and soft opposition / favorable zone starts. He’s not a tough minutes centre, PKer, or offensive juggernaut.

    Or see: http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/5/14/3020351/linus-omark-didnt-blow-his-chance

    “Note that Omark’s most common linemates were Paajarvi and Belanger, two players who suffered through year-long slumps, the latter drawing the ire of fans throughout the season. His most common defensive mates were Cam Barker, Corey Potter and Andy Sutton – the very bottom of the depth chart.. Linus Omark didn’t blow his chance, he never had one.”

    Feel free to disagree with me. I see Omark as a 1-dimensional player whose 1-dimension (offense) isn’t good enough to offset his limited utility or the lack of deploying him in other roles.

    Unfortunately, it’s a tough league and you don’t get a lot of latitude to produce even on last year’s Oilers. IIRC, Omark played one game with Hall and Nuge and looked way out of place largely due to his lack of foot speed.

  39. justDOit says:

    Ryan: Would there be less if they didn’t have them?

    How many goons does one team need to employ to keep it’s talented players safe? Four? One per line? or how about seven? One per line, and one on each defence pairing?

    By experience, the Oilers have shown that SMac, Storts and Hordichuck aren’t the answer, and I don’t pretend to know the answer. But if you can’t see that this approach is failing, the I expect that history will repeat itself.

    I’d like to hear Krueger’s thoughts on how to bring respect to the OIlers lineup.

  40. Maverick says:

    Lowetide:
    The best thing about this is if they add anything now then Eager’s slot is in trouble. Would the group be agreeable to flushing Eager for Tootoo?

    I would. Eager is big and strong but has trouble taking a pass and doesn’t stir the pot enough. Tootoo is a royal pain in the butt, good 4th line shit disturber. Are Jones are Eager taking up the same roster spot??

  41. maudite says:

    Ryan Smyth 2 yrs at 2.25….or Ponikarovsky 1 yr 1.8

    Horidchuck seriously?

    Danis for AHL but likely Rekhab still in the NHL…

    Color me pretty unimpressed thus far

  42. Maverick says:

    Kris11:
    If you keep Smyth, Hordichuk, Petrell Jones, and Eager in the lineup and you add Yakupov, you’re running oit of spots on the 23 man roster for the waiver elligible players.

    Hall-Gagner-Hemsky
    Smyth-Horcoff-Eberle
    Jones-RNH-Yakupov
    Eager-Belanger-Petrell
    Hordichuk

    Smid-Petry
    Schultz-Schultz
    Whitney-Potter
    Sutton, Peckham

    Dubnyk
    Khabibulin

    That’s 23, with no Omark, Hartikainen, MPS, Lander. I know the latter 3 don’t have to clear waivers, and Omark will clear town one way or the other.

    But without trades, the Oilers have a full lineup now, no?

    And with all the kids that are currently ready for the AHL, do the Oilers sign fewer AHL free agents like Keller?

    Only additions are Yakupov and Schultz, two nice young offensive players, are they enough to get the Oilers to compete for the playoffs with the same roster? I think there is still some issues hopefully a few more moves will still be made.

  43. Kris11 says:

    Ryan,

    “The only thing Derek Zonathat understands about hockey is stats, but the actual game he doesn’t have a clue.”

    Sounds like a shot to me.

  44. Rebilled says:

    Methot is a Senataur.

  45. Rebilled says:

    Methot is in Ottawa.

  46. Kris11 says:

    Maverick,

    Agreed that Yak and Schultz are good additions. I wouldn’t have resigned Petrell, Hordichuk to make room for better players. I might not have qualified Peckham either. Lots of little pieces from last year have to be reshuffled to improve the team. Trades can do it, but thought some new UFA’s could help the bottom of the lineup more than just reupping the same guys. Not. big, big deal, but little things count towards winning.

  47. Lowetide says:

    Maverick: I would.Eager is big and strong but has trouble taking a pass and doesn’t stir the pot enough.Tootoo is a royal pain in the butt, good 4th line shit disturber. Are Jones are Eager taking up the same roster spot??

    Maybe, The Oilers right now might look like this:

    Nuge-Hall-Eberle
    Gagner-Hartikainen-Hemsky
    Horcoff-Smyth-Yakupov
    Belanger-Eager-Jones
    Hordichuk, Paajarvi

    Seems reasonable to say they are in that range. Of course, I don’t think the Oilers are done either.

  48. Lucinius says:

    In today’s NHL there isn’t any real deterrent from players like Hordichuk (or Eager, Parros, Tootoo, etc.). There isn’t, due to the manner of suspensions, the instigator rule and so on. You cannot really hold any player liable for what he does because all he has to do is decline to fight and keep his head up for the rest of the game.

    The only way to have a player who would impact other teams from taking shots at your players would be the nuclear option; a player who was willing to be dirty and get suspended to get a message across that ‘you touch my guys, I take you out for the season or more’, which is something the league has worked to step away from.

    I can’t recall a team in the last few years that hasn’t had players rocked like we saw Hall/Eberle get rocked in the last two years, because there is no way to deter that in the modern era game.

  49. Lowetide says:

    Derek Zona is an excellent blogger and has a terrific understanding of the game. Guys, I understand that we can all get a little crazy on these big days, but really the only way to advance the discussion is to keep it open and not be petty with name calling etc.

    Respect.

    Derek is welcome here, and so are you. But please the personal shots out of it. Not pointing fingers, just having a friendly chat.

    thanks.

  50. Ryan says:

    Kris11:
    Ryan,

    “The only thing Derek Zonathat understands about hockey is stats, but the actual game he doesn’t have a clue.”

    Sounds like a shot to me.

    Okay. But who are you quoting? I didn’t write that.

  51. admiralmark says:

    TSN now reporting $1.5 million for Hordichuk… on a 1 year

  52. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide,

    well said.

    Now, @everyone

    how do we feel about the Parenteau (Col. 4yrs 16M) and Aucoin (columbus 1yrs 2M) deals?

  53. Marc says:

    Now this may be just wishful thinking but:
    - Toronto hasn’t made a move yet
    - Among Burke’s stated aims for the offseason were ‘size’ and ‘truculence’
    - A certain (loud) segment of Toronto’s fanbase think that Burke has brought in too many Americans and doesn’t have enough Ontario boys on it
    - Eager (6’2”, 240lbs) and Peckham (6’2”, 235lbs) were both born in Ontario

  54. Maverick says:

    Lowetide: Maybe, The Oilers right now might look like this:

    Nuge-Hall-Eberle
    Gagner-Hartikainen-Hemsky
    Horcoff-Smyth-Yakupov
    Belanger-Eager-Jones
    Hordichuk, Paajarvi

    Seems reasonable to say they are in that range. Of course, I don’t think the Oilers are done either.

    On the surface that 4th line looks pretty weak, I can see 2 out of the 3 not being here in the fall. Jones is good with the kids, RNH and Petry that might buy him some brownie points with upper management. Plus in a pinch he can play higher in the line up. Belanger and Eager will be gone if they can find any takers. Who will replace them? We wait.

  55. Maverick says:

    admiralmark:
    TSN now reporting $1.5 million for Hordichuk… on a 1 year

    Nope. Its $850,000.
    http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=676

  56. cadooo says:

    Tootoo probably isn’t a great fit for this team. His history of substance abuse problems could easily resurface in Edmonton and are a real concern. I don’t think you want that kind of influence around the kids. 

  57. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Maverick,

    just tried to post that twice.

    LT what’s with the comment diss?

    the tsn article also says he got 3M last year… expect it to be updated. it’s bogus.

    (i’d post it but it would be rejected again)

  58. Jon K says:

    I don’t mind this deal, operating under the assumption that the Oilers insist on having a skater for this role.

    If the Oilers hope to retain their premier talents moving forward, they are going to have find players who will fill specific roles at a serviceable level for a below market value price. The Oilers just saved a million dollars filling a relatively unimportant role.

  59. mattwatt says:

    Concerned about the Hemsky chatter from @Treenasoil. Not suprised that a lot of teams are kicking the tires on him, teams usually do with good players. Hope this makes the Oilers realize just what they have in him; a good player that can play against the toughs and slot into any top-6 in the league. Guys like him are tough to find.

    I know the injury are concerns, but they were with Gaborik at one time too. Willing to give Hemsky the benefit of doubt for now. Please keep him Oilers, please do.

  60. Cactus says:

    Before we start penciling in Hordichuk for 4mins a game, 45 games a year, let’s see what Krueger has in mind for him. Our new coach may decide he doesn’t want him in the lineup much at all. Or maybe he has a more effective way to deploy him than Renney did.

    The Oilers aren’t the only team hiring muscle. Pittsburgh, Minnesota, NYI have all done that today. Let’s not jump off a bridge about this.

  61. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    I wouldnt mind Tootoo.

    I can see Belanger,Eager,Jones and Hemsky being moved. could see Winnik as a good fit too.

  62. admiralmark says:

    mattwatt,

    If its a Top 4 D coming back for Hemsky? Yes please! :)

  63. "Steve Smith" says:

    Ryan,

    I’m with you on A and B. I just don’t see any reason to believe that thugs – whether they’re of the Eager variety and can take a regular shift, or of the MacIntyre variety and can’t – to anything to deter A.

    Let’s have a look at the teams that have been successful at preventing their small and mid-sized stars from getting run…I posit that there aren’t any.

    But as long as are stars are getting run, we might as well score on the ensuing power plays, even if the guys doing the running aren’t rational enough for it to be an effective deterrent.

  64. jonrmcleod says:

    Tencer was vigorously defending the Hordichuk signing on Twitter. He quotes Hordicuk: “It’s not a bad thing to get suspended every once in a while to show people you’re a little bit crazy.” Tencer also says, “Hordichuk tells me he’s had great conversations with Ralph Krueger, expects to be given the green light to mix it up a bit more this season.”

  65. Dipstick says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    The skill players have to learn to avoid the bad checks. I like Taylor Hall’s response to Drew Doughty. A stick in the chops can do wonders. Ryan Smyth knows this as well.

  66. Rondo says:

    I looking around other teams blogs, Edmonton hockey fans are clearly more passionate about hockey then any other team.

  67. Kris11 says:

    Ryan: Okay. But who are you quoting?I didn’t write that.

    Didn’t say you did. You responded to me when I said people shouldn’t take shots at Zona.

  68. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Tsn updated their story to 850,000 now. still list last year absurdly at 3M

  69. admiralmark says:

    Kris11: Didn’t say you did. You responded to me when I said people shouldn’t take shots at Zona.

    I bet if there wasnt that damn instigator penalty one of you two woulda dropped the gloves by now?? lol

  70. NB_Oiler_Fan says:

    Hordicuk types aren’t really “deterents” their role is to even the score when a player is run, cheap-shot’d. Problem for me is that i don’t think Hordichuk is the right guy to keep the team on their toes in that role. Tootoo on the other hand, is the perfect guy. You can’t tell me that the other teams players don’t know when Tootoo is on the ice… they are always looking over their shoulders when he is. And if a teammate of Tootoo is run, then everyone is weary of Tootoo. that is the kindof guy we need… not the tough guys fight tough guys thing.

    The bonus is… Tootoo can fight with the best of them as well, but can also play the game. Eager could be this player, but isn’t unfortunately.

  71. justDOit says:

    Lowetide:
    Derek Zona is an excellent blogger and has a terrific understanding of the game. Guys, I understand that we can all get a little crazy on these big days, but really the only way to advance the discussion is to keep it open and not be petty with name calling etc.

    Respect.

    Derek is welcome here, and so are you. But pleasethe personal shots out of it. Not pointing fingers, just having a friendly chat.

    thanks.

    I remember some of the first posts to your morning article included references to starting the day off with beer. I wonder what went wrong?

  72. Ducey says:

    godot10:
    Best solution is to have the #1 PP in the league, and the toughness problem is solved.

    So when the game is at 4-1 for the Oilers after the second period against a division rival that puts out three goons intent on taking a round out of someone, who are you going to send out?

    How about when you are down a few goals and want to put a dent in the other team’s skill line and try to change the momentum?

    The way the NHL called the games in the last 1/2 of the season, you also can’t count on as many penalties.

  73. Lowetide says:

    lol. God’s flashlight made an appearance?

  74. justDOit says:

    @LT: I’ve seen another person wonder aloud how Krueger will manage his tough guy(s). I would like to see someone ask him his thoughts on this much different aspect of the game that he hasn’t had to address on the Euro/world stages.

    So if you could ask him what his strategies are on protecting his talent, and employing enforcers to patrol the ice?

  75. hockeyguy10 says:

    Ryan: I agree 100% Godot.

    Just like it worked for us last season.

    Drew Doughty blows up Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Pu00dGkhY
    Raffi Torres blows up Jordan Eberle:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRzzZ8GUkig
    Cory Sarich hit on Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wttzK-Q_Frk
    Cal Clutterbuck hits Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq_cNZjaSK0
    Justin Abdelkater huge hit on Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T786xEHJcQ
    Ryan Wilson Injures Taylor Hall with Huge Hit:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsMJ–5a8Ps
    Alexander Edler Levels Taylor Hall:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70xInr4WoQo
    Handzus Boards Hemsky:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3YSV01FGho
    Dan Boyle levels Jordan Eberle:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PdBu3SUyk
    Nugent-Hopkins gets run over by Oreskovich
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pyzYyqeC6s

    </blockquote

    I think you need to edit your list. I would say 7 of the hits you have listed are perfectly fine hockey plays.With the rules nowadays(instigator) the only person who can protect Taylor Hall is Taylor Hall. Even RNH said after he got rocked by Oreskivich it was his fault, said he used that move in Jr and he thought he had more time but the NHL is faster.
    One of the dumbest things about the NHL right now is player having to fight because of a big hit even if it is clean.

  76. Gret99zky says:

    We need a guy to piss off the other team by taking shots at their guys first.

    Instead of reacting to what they instigate. We set the tone. Not them.

  77. justDOit says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Penner’s response is almost as hilarious as all that canned, cheese-flavoured, edible oil product!

  78. Lowetide says:

    justDOit:
    @LT: I’ve seen another person wonder aloud how Krueger will manage his tough guy(s). I would like to see someone ask him his thoughts on this much different aspect of the game that he hasn’t had to address on the Euro/world stages.

    So if you could ask him what his strategies are on protecting his talent, and employing enforcers to patrol the ice?

    I don’t have access to Oilers staff, but I’m sure someone will ask.

  79. DSF says:

    Pretty tough for your PP aces to get revenge when they’re on IR.

    Having said that, if Hordichuk is the answer, I have no idea what the question was.

    He’s been found wanting in more than a few other markets and is basically a waste of a roster spot.

  80. justDOit says:

    Gret99zky,

    I see. So start the war on talent, and then watch as they retaliate? I think that’s as flawed as putting an XXXXXL jersey on SMac and having him carve up the ice for 1:15, every other game.

    About the only tactic that has been track-tested in the past, is for a talent player get his stick up a bit – ala Dino Ciccarelli.

  81. justDOit says:

    Lowetide,

    But you know people. People who know people. I would be really disappointed if the Oilers are going after the Hordi’s of the league, and the new coach doesn’t want to employ them, or doesn’t think they are a factor of a successful team.

  82. Gret99zky says:

    No, I just mean set the tone. Not run a gong show.

    Be tough to play against bam, before dudder guy.

  83. justDOit says:

    Gret99zky,

    Starting off by, as you said, ‘taking shots at their guys first’, seems to me that you’re starting the exact style of play that the Oilers would want to avoid. Maybe it’s just a comprehension problem on my part – I’ve only had 1 beer so far…

  84. justDOit says:

    Bryan Allen gets 3 x $3.5M!!! as per BobMac? Three POINT five MILL for Bryan Allen? They must of had all that Justin Schultz money all ready to go, and just had to give it to someone.

  85. "Steve Smith" says:

    Gret99zky:
    We need a guy to piss off the other team by taking shots at their guys first.

    Instead of reacting to what they instigate.We set the tone.Not them.

    What does that accomplish? So the other team then runs your guys in retaliation?

    I’m genuinely confused about the “it’s not about deterrence, it’s about evening the score” line of thinking. Anything that prevents the other team from running your guys is good. But now you’re not talking about that – in fact, you’re talking about provoking people into running your guys? Why?

  86. "Steve Smith" says:

    justDOit,

    I don’t remember ever having seen you post before a few days ago, but I like you.

    (That may not reflect well on you.)

  87. Gret99zky says:

    Probably got myself riled up watching all those you-tube Oiler gets run highlights.

    Breathing into a paper bag now.

    Feeling better.

  88. justDOit says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    I mostly lurk, however, I’m confident that once you see more of my thoughts, your initial impression of me will be supplanted.

  89. justDOit says:

    Gret99zky,

    In through the nose, out through the mouth…

    And you do know that all those hits took place while the OIlers employed an enforcer or two already, right?

  90. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    justDOit,

    even funnier that it seems to have been a pre-response:

    http://twitter.com/Dustinpenner25/status/218873340557926402

    look at the timestamp!

    Oh… and totally agree with this:

    “About the only tactic that has been track-tested in the past, is for a talent player get his stick up a bit – ala Dino Ciccarelli.”

    … Smyth should be running a summer camp with useful ideas like: “make yourself into a dense series of elbows and stick ends”

  91. justDOit says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    where’s the d@mned props button, anyways?

  92. justDOit says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I wonder how lengthy the suspension for this would be in today’s league?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hodb0LUALjI

  93. jfry says:

    lt, i’m starting to feel like you’re treena! the whole cute chick theme. garfield’s owner always looked at hot women. just saying.

  94. jonrmcleod says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    I agree that there really aren’t any deterrents to injury–except personal awareness, good fortune, and a body made of rubber.

  95. Lowetide says:

    justDOit:
    Lowetide,

    But you know people. People who know people. I would be really disappointed if the Oilers are going after the Hordi’s of the league, and the new coach doesn’t want to employ them, or doesn’t think they are a factor of a successful team.

    There’s no way. If Krueger is going to change the culture of the Oilers it is over time, and the Oilers have been devoted to the enforcer since Semenko (actually before then). It runs from Bill Hunter through Glen Sather to Kevin Lowe and today.

    I hate having the enforcer on a roster, and have always looked at Detroit as the model. And yet Jim Nill admitted this spring their draft would focus on coke machines.

  96. Lowetide says:

    jfry:
    lt, i’m starting to feel like you’re treena!the whole cute chick theme.garfield’s owner always looked at hot women. just saying.

    No, not Treenasoil. Have been asked that a couple of times this weekend, along with a question about me being twitter legend Horcov.

  97. Traktor says:

    Wow. Tootoo to Detroit.

  98. Lowetide says:

    Traktor:
    Wow. Tootoo to Detroit.

    Red Wings said they’d be going that route. Good for him, that has to be pretty cool.

  99. justDOit says:

    Lowetide,

    Employing the enforcer tactic while watching the kids get run by punks on the opposing team. I really hope Krueger has an answer for that conundrum.

  100. Maverick says:

    Lowetide: Red Wings said they’d be going that route. Good for him, that has to be pretty cool.

    Holy! Good for him. That is $400,000 more a year than I thought he would get. If the Oilers were offering $2M per that would have been too much.

  101. Lowetide says:

    He does. Make the damn playoffs.

  102. Lowetide says:

    There’s a thread above btw.

  103. Noodles says:

    Ryan Dittrick ‏@ryandittrick

    In speaking with Hordichuk (& Tambellini confirmed it), No. 16 will be probably be deployed differently and more often under Ralph Krueger.

    :(

  104. Ryan says:

    Tyler Dellow wrote an excellent article about drafting for the bottom six. By his analysis, it’s a losing strategy which makes intuitive sense.

    I’ve been intrigued by this problem of the Oilers for the past three seasons. That being the problem of teams taking liberties against them.

    As a reality check, I did try to watch these teams in other league games against sturdier physical opponents. With 100% zero scientific, numerical, or unbiased data, I can state emphatically, that the Oilers are a team in recent history that does tend to have more liberties taken against them. :)

    Back in the late nineties when the oilers were a low-budget collection of overachievers, I don’t recall ever thinking that. Has the game changed that much?

    Lowetide: There’s no way. If Krueger is going to change the culture of the Oilers it is over time, and the Oilers have been devoted to the enforcer since Semenko (actually before then). It runs from Bill Hunter through Glen Sather to Kevin Lowe and today.

    I hate having the enforcer on a roster, and have always looked at Detroit as the model. And yet Jim Nill admitted this spring their draft would focus on coke machines.

  105. DeadmanWaking says:

    Deterrence, retribution, and vindication are the Bermuda triangle of rational discourse. You can’t get a better example of this than a passage from The Tillman Story which I watched last night (as transcribed at the bathroom wall of all knowledge):

    In comments to ESPN, Kauzlarich said: “These people have a hard time letting it go. It may be because of their religious beliefs” and “When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don’t believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing and now he is no more… I do not know how an atheist thinks, I can only imagine that would be pretty tough.”

    He’s having trouble grasping that an atheist-learning family might be angry about being lied to while being handed the Silver Star and a flag-draped box. Christopher Hitchens tries a little harder, as an atheist, to crack the moral code:

    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. This is possibly the most sophisticated ruling in the whole Decalogue. Human society is inconceivable unless words are to some extent bonds [] Until recently, much testimony before Congress was taken without witnesses being “sworn”: this allowed a great deal of official lying. [] The word “witness” expresses one of our noblest concepts. “Bearing witness” is a high moral responsibility.

    Having your son die defending a country whose government lies to you strikes me as a bad day at the office, regardless of whether you think the tablets originated in hypoxic delirium or from a voice in the clouds. It’s just an opinion, but I personally believe that Cheney can recall in vivid detail every grudge he’s held since the first grade (if there’s eternal justice, he’ll be welcomed into the afterlife by Jiang Qing). After 9/11 the American government asked themselves how they allowed the attack to happen. Part of the answer was this: too many ominous memos going unread. Yet to hear him testify to his own ignorance about events in the war that followed, he depicts his office as consisting of a groaning pile of highly-secretive P4 memos routinely neglected.

    Where’s the deterrence? Is the government going to do it again? Absolutely. They are so used to lying, they only dimly comprehend the democratic grudge. Surely we’ve evened up, with that Silver Star and the big party. Hell, we even sent a kick-ass fly-over.

    Here’s another problem with deterrence, as explained by Tony Robbins

    Third human need, critical: significance. We all need to feel important, special, unique. You can get it by making more money. You can do it by being more spiritual. You can do it by getting yourself in a situation where you put more tattoos and earrings in places humans don’t want to know. Whatever it takes. The fastest way to do this, if you have no background, no culture, no belief and resources or resourcefulness, is violence. If I put a gun to your head and I live in the ‘hood, instantly I’m significant. Zero to 10. How high? 10. How certain am I that you’re going to respond to me? 10. How much uncertainty? Who knows what’s going to happen next? Kind of exciting.

    We have this kind of primal desire to regard violent deterrence as “message received, loud and clear”. It’s really rooted in a drive for significance: you’re paying attention now, aren’t you, monkey boy?

    But then if you ask people how the score is kept on both sides of the fracas, it’s more like the first guy: We gave them the medal, the flag, the planes, and still they want more. What’s wrong with that family? Have they no god?

    It’s hardly ever message received, loud and clear. The score is rarely properly settled until one side slinks off to whimper or die.

    This is a pretty good read, from a couple of days ago: An oral history of the infamous 1997 Holyfield-Tyson ‘bite fight’

    Winning is what you need to do at all costs. And then after the fight [Holyfield] praises God so he looks like a great guy even if he forearmed and head-butted you in the eye. You look at the fight and watch some of the clips, he gets inside, he gets his head down and he does head-butt, he does elbow, he does use his forearm, he does use the inside of the gloves and use his face. He uses everything he has, and against Mike Tyson, I probably would too.

    Even at the outer limits of nuclear deterrence, it’s the same old shit:

    You have to understand the frustration of Tyson. Tyson said he was being butted and he couldn’t appeal to anybody to get any type of help so he took it upon himself to bite the man. On Holyfield’s part, it’s a normal thing of going on with his business. Maybe he doesn’t even realize that he’s doing what he is doing whatever it is. He’s out to win. He’s in it to win it and you can’t quit.

    In other words, Holyfield was “just finishing my check” like a good boy.

    That said, I don’t think Hordi wastes much of a spot, since this team as presently built is highly unlikely to roll four lines. He’ll get a few spins late in the game with the score 8-2.

    Maybe some people think that religion and politics are OT in a thread about the merits of knuckular deterrence. But it can’t be. Deterrence involves forming models of how other people think and guess what crap goes on in there? Bermuda triangle crap. In rational conversation, it’s clear how poorly this usually works. When the knuckles fly, it’s easier to pretend that the message is received as delivered for a cathartic instant.

    Captain: “You gonna get use to wearing them chains after a while Luke. Don’t you never stop listening to them clinking, they gonna remind you about what I been saying for your own good.”
    Luke : “I wish you’d stop being so good to me Captain”
    Captain : “Don’t you ever talk that way to me. NEVER!” (hitting him)
    Captain : “What we’ve got here is failure to communicate”
    Captain : “Some men you just can’t reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it… well, he gets it. I don’t like it any more than you men.”

    Deterrence as the antithesis of message received has never been done better.

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