POWERFORWARD

What defines a power forward? Size? Speed? A combination of the two? Goal scoring? The ability to intimidate? Play 15 minutes a night?

The Edmonton Oilers have been looking to add size to their roster for years now, really since Messier was traded to Manhattan. They have scored some impressive options (Arnott was a beauty, loved Billy Guerin) but haven’t been able to keep those options for long.


Teemu Hartikainen is likely to get a push this fall, as the team once again searches for a big forward to play with their skilled men. Hartikainen isn’t exactly a coke machine, but does have size:

  • Ben Eager, 6.02 240
  • Teemu Hartikainen 6.01, 215
  • Darcy Hordichuk 6.01, 212

According to the Oilers website, the only pro forwards over 6 feet and 210 pounds are these three gentlemen. Hordichuk is a 4 minutes a night fighter, Eager is a role playing disturber and Hartikainen is a hopeful skill winger with size.

It isn’t really fair to cut off the names at 6.00, 210 but the players below (Paajarvi, Martindale, Horcoff) aren’t really PF types, either.

In 29 NHL games, Hartikainen has scored 5-5-10. That’s in 430 minutes, about one half hour on the PP. If he played a full season (three times what he’s done so far in the NHL, so about what Sam Gagner played this season) with the same TOI he’s seen so far, would that be enough to keep a job on a skill line? 15-15-30?

Is Hartikainen physical enough? will he score enough? Does he have enough size? speed? ability to win puck battles?

I think that’s a major question to keep in mind as this roster takes shape.

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53 Responses to "POWERFORWARD"

  1. stevezie says:

    I would argue that Jagr is the greatest power forward of my lifetime. I don’t think most people realise how big he is, but he is currently listed as 240 lbs. Watching his highlights it is amazing how strong he was on the puck, how many times he made moves with two people piggy backing him, how often he would just bull his way to the net at carry the puck with him, almost like a full-back. His finesse was superb, but power was the foundation of his game.

    Of course, if you claim that “power-forward” includes the intimidating arts of hitting and fighting, which is a reasonable thing to say, then clearly it’s Ovechkin followed closely by Cam Neely. I know Ovie doesn’t fight, but until a combination of suspensions and milquetoast management (they should have never stopped being an offensive team) crushed his spirit, Ovechkin was one of the league’s most feared hitters and one of its biggest try-hards and by far the best goal scorer. What else could you want?

    None of this applies to the Oilers. If I were them I’d see if the Devils were depressed enough about Parise leaving and their goalie being so very old that they’d trade the last year of Clarkson for youth.

  2. stevezie says:

    Proviso: If centers are qualify as power-forwards and not “big, strong centers” then clearly either Lemieux or Lindros is the greatest of my lifetime, depending on your definition.

  3. pboy says:

    You might want to include Messier in there as well.

  4. PaperDesigner says:

    Why do they need a power forward? Don’t they already have that player? His name is Taylor Hall.

  5. Lowetide says:

    PD: I think he has a lot of the things we expect from PF’s but size. 6.01, 194 according to the Oilers website. Is that PF size?

  6. stevezie says:

    pboy,
    By “lifetime” I mean from when I was old enough to really understand what I was watching, which I’ll start at 1990. Mess had some dynamite years left, but I think, strictly using the 1990 onward timeframe, Lemieux has the edge. If you demand hitting and fighting be included in the definition than I think Lindros has to be the guy. Mess is still right up there though, you’re right about that.

    I don’t want to hijack the board with a historical discussion, so I will add that I do not believe in Ben Eager. Part of this is my own personal bias because I didn’t like the signing and want to be right, but consider that well Eager has always fought he has never been a feared fighter (his most famous youtube clip is a geriatric Gary Roberts beating the shit out of him while Georges Laroque laughs). Consider that team has ever felt the urge to stick with him, while even guys like Tootoo and Kaleta found long-term homes. It’s true that bangers who can skate sometimes develop offense later in their careers (like the aforementioned Clarkson, or most famously Tocchet), but just because it has been done I don’t see what arrows indicate Eager is about to do it. I understand he was offended by the way that he was handled last year, but I don’t like the way he responded to it. So I guess what I’m saying is I completely agree with LT’s assesment that he is a role playing disturber.

    No pressure Teemu, but it’s all up to you. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMc2vrvE6U for inspiration.)

  7. Rebilled says:

    I really enjoyed seeing that goal again.

    We really don’t have anyone else on this team who could have scored that goal, not in the same way.

    MORE!

  8. Woodguy says:

    Agreed that a large man who can play with skilled men is at the top of the Oilers wish list.

    Haski seems to have the tools and he’s a Finn, so I expect him to succeed.

    Kruger has been talking a lot about defining roles for players so they know what the expectations are.

    This is very good news and a if a guy like Harski (and MPS) are given a defined role, expectations, and enough rope to hang himself with.

    I’d wager Pitlick is an early callup as well and stays late at camp.

  9. Kris11 says:

    “I do mot believe in Ben Eager”

    Hey!

    Ben Eager believes in you.

  10. Lowetide says:

    I didn’t hear the Krueger interview with Stauffer today, but based on my dm’s and texts the guy must have offered free $100 bills to listeners. Very positive reaction from the half dozen people I’ve been in contact with. I’m beginning to think he’s a witch or an Osmond!

  11. Kris11 says:

    I do not believe in Zemgus Girgensons.

    That is a made up name, if I ever heard one.

  12. Lowetide says:

    Hartikainen played with Gagner and Eberle (I think it was) and scored a couple of goals against ANA right at the end of the season. I hope the kid works like a bugger in the summer and scores two more in the first pre-season game he plays against an NHL calibre lineup.

  13. sliderule says:

    Warning do not look into the eyes of the Krueger.

  14. Semenko and Troy says:

    I see Hartikainen’s future on this team on a third line with PRV. They excelled together in OKC in the latter part of the season and in the playoffs. In a couple of years once Lander develops (and Smyth and Horcoff are gone) they could be quite a nice homegrown fit.

  15. speeds says:

    Here’s a question for you:

    If there were an internet in 1994, what sort of expectations would there have been for Arnott after his rookie season?

    33 goals, 68 points, plus player on a mediocre team.

  16. speeds says:

    Arnott is 89th in all time NHL scoring – excellent longevity, interestingly he’s never scored more goals than in his rookie season (tied one season), and only had more points than his rookie year twice.

  17. Lowetide says:

    I can tell you absolutely. Remember this was at a very low ebb for the Oilers and that kid rocked it. I mean he was stunning. I don’t think–in terms of numbers–anyone expected him to be a 50 goal man by 22 years old, but he was a strong Calder candidate and had the look of a special player.

    He lost the Calder and then he had that “I wasn’t into it” moment and that’s pretty much the only way Slats would have traded him.

  18. speeds says:

    I remember being really annoyed at the time that Arnott didn’t win the Calder. Looking back now, I don’t know what I think.

    I do think it’s interesting how the criteria seemed to have changed a bit. This year many argued for Landeskog on the basis of having played many more games than RNH. In 93/94, Arnott played 78 games while Brodeur only started 47 games. Granted, he’s a goalie and no one expects a goalie to play 82 games, but 47 games was still less than a top starter might normally start.

    And while I don’t think age is a criteria in voting, personally I find it more impressive for an 18/19 year old (Arnott) to step in a than a 21 year old, although maybe it’s a bit different for a goalie. And I would say that if Schultz were in the running for the Calder vs. Huberdeau, for example.

  19. Woodguy says:

    Podcast of The Krueger’s interview:

    http://www.630ched.com/Podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=2254

    Should be right at the top.

    About time someone in the organization sounded that knowledgeable and prepared.

    Some may have been that knowledgeable and prepared, but no one sounded like it until now.

  20. Lowetide says:

    Just listened to Krueger. Here’s my thoughts:

    1. I’ve never been to cottage country Ontario. Would like to go someday.
    2. Yak/Schultz”Both players are excellent right now and both will be better as they grow into the future.”
    3. Schultz verbal very positive, discussed the defensive side.
    4. “it’s a 5 on 5 game that tests young players in the National Hockey League.”
    5. “we like the 4 forwards (on the PP).”
    6. “It’s more getting in touch with all the players.”
    7. “it’s important we establish clear principals as a team early.”
    8. Yakupov is open to playing LW based on development camp conv. with Krueger.
    9. Ryan Whitney finally has a summer he can train all summer.
    10. great, great take on the kids.
    11. Smyth-Horcoff: we need to be aware of everyone’s minutes and roles. they are two of the hardest working players in practice.

    God he’s positive. I feel better already.

  21. PaperDesigner says:

    Lowetide:
    PD: I think he has a lot of the things we expect from PF’s but size. 6.01, 194 according to the Oilers website. Is that PF size?

    Is it about size, or about the physical strength to plow through players and muscle guys in the corners? Hall is a bit of a hybrid between a power forward and a skill player, but in the end, aren’t you shopping for the player Hall is going to become as he matures into an adult body?

    I think you look for good players. And you don’t make your job more complicated by searching for only certain types of good players. But what do I know? I don’t have the proven track record of a historic run of three straight first overall picks.

  22. LMHF#1 says:

    Woodguy:
    Podcast of The Krueger’s interview:

    http://www.630ched.com/Podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=2254

    Should be right at the top.

    About time someone in the organization sounded that knowledgeable and prepared.

    Some may have been that knowledgeable and prepared, but no one sounded like it until now.

    Nice to have a coach that at least sounds like he understands the game.

  23. Lowetide says:

    PD: Agree, and that’s certainly the Detroit model. However, if that’s the case why are there so many people questioning the size of Edmonton’s potential top 6F (Hall, RNH, Ebs, Yak, Gagner, Hemmer)?

    I’ve long felt that you should look for players who can actually play. However, I don’t think there’s much doubt the Oilers are going to get some size on that top 6F come hell or high water.

  24. LMHF#1 says:

    Lowetide:
    I can tell you absolutely. Remember this was at a very low ebb for the Oilers and that kid rocked it. I mean he was stunning. I don’t think–in terms of numbers–anyone expected him to be a 50 goal man by 22 years old, but he was a strong Calder candidate and had the look of a special player.

    He lost the Calder and then he had that “I wasn’t into it” moment and that’s pretty much the only way Slats would have traded him.

    People forget how good he was vs. Dallas in 1997. He was certainly into it in that series. One of the stupidest moves we’ve ever made. You just don’t trade guys like that without getting the same back.

  25. hags9k says:

    In my books a power forward is able to play and score when the game is on the line, and is able to intimidate physically. Score and fight. Guys like Iginla, Lindros, Shanahan, Clark, sure Guerin, and now the ones everyone is compared to Hartnell and Lucic. Problem is that these types of players are hard to come by because they are usually all stars or HOFers. We don’t have a power forward, but we could sure use one.

    I certainly don’t see Hartikainen as a candidate for power forward on the Edmonton Oiler team I’d like to see on the ice contending. I understand we have to make due with what we have, these types of players don’t grow on trees. Fingers and toes crossed on Moroz, and I’m not sure that once Hall gets a little bigger and stronger we don’t start to see his mitts on the ice and him drawing lines in the sand. He’s still so young, but he has that competitive fire.

    Candidates around the league I would target would be Clowe, Clarkson, Stewart.

    Toughness is underrated these days. It seems it’s in vogue lately to say you don’t need to fight in today’s game. It’s a nice PC stance, but doesn’t jive with reality. I’m not saying you have to give regular ice to 4th line goons, I’m saying that on the top lines, the ones who decide playoff games, toughness is golden.

  26. jp says:

    LMHF#1: People forget how good he was vs. Dallas in 1997. He was certainly into it in that series. One of the stupidest moves we’ve ever made. You just don’t trade guys like that without getting the same back.

    Well, he was traded for Guerin. Not exactly the same, but certainly brought some of the same qualities… They also got a 3rd line NHLer for a tweener D (Arnott and Muir for Guerin and Zelepukin). Not a terrible return actually.

  27. FastOil says:

    speeds:
    Arnott is 89th in all time NHL scoring – excellent longevity, interestingly he’s never scored more goals than in his rookie season (tied one season), and only had more points than his rookie year twice.

    I see Arnott as a true power forward. So powerful he doesn’t often have to fight. Nobody really wants to.

    I remember when he was still an Oiler, some goon D levelled Smyth I think, and lay down on him. Arnott came over, grabbed his collar and top of pants, quickly picked him up a bit and literally tossed him off. Awesome. Not surprisingly the offender didn’t want a piece IIRC. That is a strong man.

    Points don’t always tell the whole story. Messier wasn’t a great scorer according to his own opinion, but was definitely a consistent game changer. Arnott’s play in the 2000 Cup win was absolutely dominant and timely. I’ve always thought he was a huge loss for the Oilers. If only the team could find a centre like that again.

  28. Woodguy says:

    LMHF#1: People forget how good he was vs. Dallas in 1997. He was certainly into it in that series. One of the stupidest moves we’ve ever made. You just don’t trade guys like that without getting the same back.

    I’ll never forgive Terry Jones for jumping on his back and not get off of it.

  29. TheOtherJohn says:

    Have heard the “Whitney just needs full offseason to train” story. Hope that story is accurate. That definitely seems completely counter to a chronic injury. But heard Bob Stauffer say “Whiney had a real solid last 1/3 of a season” which strikes me as whistling by a graveyard but if the Oilers want to rely on Whitney returning to per injury form, that will waste another offseason

    Very impressive listening to Ralph

  30. Jesse says:

    I’m gonna be honest, I’m too young to know why Arnott gt traded. Inside scoop anyone?

  31. Lowetide says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Have heard the “Whitney just needs full offseason to train” story. Hope that story is accurate. That definitely seems completely counter to a chronic injury. But heard Bob Stauffer say “Whineyhad a real solid last 1/3 of a season” which strikes me as whistling by a graveyard but if the Oilers want to rely on Whitney returning toper injury form, that will waste another offseason

    Very impressive listening to Ralph

    That’s pretty much how I feel. He was improved the last part of the season but still couldn’t turn. Plus I don’t know that we have a very long list of hockey players who have recovered from that surgery.

  32. Woodguy says:

    hags9k,

    Candidates around the league I would target would be Clowe, Clarkson, Stewart.

    21 year old year in hockey:

    Hartikainen:

    2011-12 Oklahoma City Barons AHL 51 14 18 32
    2011-12 Edmonton Oilers NHL 17 2 3 5

    Clowe:

    2003-04 Cleveland Barons AHL 72 11 29 40

    Clarkson:

    2005-06 Albany River Rats AHL 56 13 21 34

    Stewart:

    2008-09 Colorado Avalanche NHL 53 11 8 19

    He’s not where Stewart is, but I see no reason that Harski doesn’t measure up to the other two.

  33. PaperDesigner says:

    Lowetide:
    PD: Agree, and that’s certainly the Detroit model. However, if that’s the case why are there so many people questioning the size of Edmonton’s potential top 6F (Hall, RNH, Ebs, Yak, Gagner, Hemmer)?

    I’ve long felt that you should look for players who can actually play. However, I don’t think there’s much doubt the Oilers are going to get some size on that top 6F come hell or high water.

    I hope for their sake one of Hartikainen or Paajarvi establishes themselves quickly in that role. Last time they they went hunting for that player, they traded an RFA Pitkanen for Cole on the final year of his deal. I think they would do a similar overpay if they don’t find that player internally.

  34. bookje says:

    I think I really understand the value of Krueger now. The Oilers may not be any better this year than in past years, but Krueger is going to make us feel better about them. And really, when you think about it, that is all that matters. Look how happy everyone has been since he was hired.

  35. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide,

    1. I’ve never been to cottage country Ontario. Would like to go someday.

    I spent a pile of time in Kenora in Northern Ont at what is perhaps the awesomest lake in the world. (Lake of the Woods)

    Got to spend a little bit of time at Lake Rosseau in Southern Ont.

    Amazing country.

    Nothing like here.

    Rocks, Trees, Water.

    Blast the roads out of solid rock, no dirt to move.

    You should make a point of doing it.

  36. Woodguy says:

    bookje:
    I think I really understand the value of Krueger now.The Oilers may not be any better this year than in past years, but Krueger is going to make us feel better about them.And really, when you think about it, that is all that matters.Look how happy everyone has been since he was hired.

    Every time I hear an NHLer rave about his coach, they all say essentially the same thing.

    -Clear communication
    -Clear definition of roles
    -Clear definition of expectations

    Its amazing to hear from a lot of the players that professional coaches don’t communicate these things well.

    Krueger brings these things.

    The last coach brought side burns.

    The coach before him brought Barbara Anne Scott.

  37. Downright Fierce says:

    Didn’t catch the show, but from LT’s comments…

    Lowetide:
    5. “we like the 4 forwards (on the PP).”

    Exciting news. Love, love, love the idea. So I’m giving this a go: The Hoodoo Line (because who do you check?)

    I’m thinking Hall in the D slot. Thoughts?

    8. Yakupov is open to playing LW based on development camp conv. with Krueger.

    I felt this would be the case well before Yak stated he could even play goalie at the Combine or whenever he dropped that soundbite. Makes too much sense not to happen. Give 4 a go at pivot by all means, but I bet Nail’s versatility will force the issue. That shot will do work from anydamnwhere.

    Sounds like a good interview.

  38. stevezie says:

    Woodguy:
    hags9k,

    Candidates around the league I would target would be Clowe, Clarkson, Stewart.

    21 year old year in hockey:

    Hartikainen:

    2011-12Oklahoma City BaronsAHL51141832
    2011-12Edmonton Oilers NHL17235

    Clowe:

    2003-04Cleveland BaronsAHL72112940

    Clarkson:

    2005-06Albany River RatsAHL56132134

    Stewart:

    2008-09Colorado AvalancheNHL5311819

    He’s not where Stewart is, but I see no reason that Harski doesn’t measure up to the other two.

    Timelines and certainty, I guess. When Clarkson and Clowe were Teemu’s age they were both a few years away from being valuable offensive players, as Harski probably is now (assuming he ever gets there). Intangibles is also a factor, Clarkson is a great fighter who can play, and (I know this is heresay) I hear Clowe is the most vocal guy in the Sharks room and someone who will hold teammates accountable.

    Basically, if we substitute one of those guys for Harski we are for sure getting something, we’re getting it right now, and we know it comes with a little extra. Of course, age and contracts are a factor, and the Finn sure seems to be a bull on the puck, but at this point I’d take a bird in the hand.

    Side bonus – one of these guys or someone of their ilk might make it a little bit easier to deploy a 4th line with more hockey upside than Eager or Hordi currently offer.

    Of course this assumes that one of these guys is available for something we’d be willing to pay, which they probably aren’t.

  39. jp says:

    Woodguy:
    hags9k,

    Candidates around the league I would target would be Clowe, Clarkson, Stewart.

    21 year old year in hockey:

    Hartikainen:

    2011-12Oklahoma City BaronsAHL51141832
    2011-12Edmonton Oilers NHL17235

    Clowe:

    2003-04Cleveland BaronsAHL72112940

    Clarkson:

    2005-06Albany River RatsAHL56132134

    Stewart:

    2008-09Colorado AvalancheNHL5311819

    He’s not where Stewart is, but I see no reason that Harski doesn’t measure up to the other two.

    Nice comps, but we are picking the guys who’ve turned into what we want. There’s no doubt a boatload of big tough guys who’ve scored ~40 AHL points in their 21 yo season and didn’t progress. I’m not going to spend too much time looking, but 2 examples:

    Dane Byers 07-08 Hart AHL 73-23-23-46

    JFJ 06-07 WB AHL 29-10-17-27
    Edm NHL 37-0-0-0
    Those zero’s in the NHL rightly raised concern about JFJ, but dude even went 65-24-20-44 in his age 20 season. Equally fair comps as those above I think.

    I sure hope that Harti can score enough to make it work, but I have my doubts. I think he’s an NHLer, but my gut doesn’t see him settling in as a 2nd liner, more likely a 3rd, may be a 4th. Give him a shot for sure, but I’m not expecting great success.

  40. cabbiesmacker says:

    Woodguy: I’ll never forgive Terry Jones for jumping on his back and not get off of it.

    Spector was even worse. At least Jones only went after Arnott for hockey related matters. Spector chose to write pretty much every day about Arnott’s personal issues at the time. I’ve had zero respect for the cretin since.

  41. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide:
    Just listened to Krueger. Here’s my thoughts:

    1. I’ve never been to cottage country Ontario. Would like to go someday.

    Save yourself some miles LT and just head to Northen Sask. Canadian shield is Canadian shield and theres lots fewer to have to share it with in Gopherland. You hit it just north of Waskesiu.

  42. Bruce McCurdy says:

    The prototypical power forward, beyond any question in my mind, was/is Gordie Howe. I missed him in his prime, only catching the back half of his career (literally, I followed hockey the last sixteen of his 32 seasons!) and Mister Hockey was still the best PF going pretty much throughout that entire time. An absolute freak of nature.

  43. bookje says:

    Woodguy: Every time I hear an NHLer rave about his coach, they all say essentially the same thing.

    -Clear communication
    -Clear definition of roles
    -Clear definition of expectations

    Its amazing to hear from a lot of the players that professional coaches don’t communicate these things well.

    Krueger brings these things.

    The last coach brought side burns.

    The coach before him brought Barbara Anne Scott.

    I fully agree and I am not certain that MacT was the greatest communicator either. I am not in any way slagging Kruger. I was pretty happy when they hired him. I just think that he may actually be employing Jedi mind tricks or something. I suppose that is a good thing. It seems to have got us Justin Schultz anyway.

  44. VOR says:

    Hunting for Clark Gillies:

    I know you all have in your head the ideal power forward. Big, fast, strong, tough, gifted figher, good hands. But let me see if I can’t change your mind.

    Once upon a time there was a hockey team that needed a left wing power forward. They had a tiny center with marvelous puck distribution skills. He’d bonded nicely with his slightly bigger right winger who was a great opportunistic scorer and demon fore checker. The result was a great duo that lost a lot of puck battles because they just got out manned. On top of which the goons were eating them alive.

    Everybody knew the remedy. Find a massive left winger with a chip on his shoulder. If he could score better still. Most importantly this power forward needed to be able to fight. Behind closed doors and eventually in the media management said they wanted the next Clark Gillies.

    Auditions began immediately. Every big left winger got a chance. Some were too slow, some couldn’t score (at all), some couldn’t take a pass, and none of them could play defence. They were all JF Jacques, not a Clark Gillies amongst them. Hell, not a John Tonelli.

    Then injury, desperation, stupidity, amd reaching the bottom of the barrel led this team to call up their last LW from the minors. It was a joke. He was big but gangly and much as he’d tried he couldn’t get into either figthing or body checking. He couldn’t score at the NHL level 11 goals in 83 prior games proved that. He definitely couldn’t play defence. All he had going for him was he was the same size as Gillies.

    The day he was called up local media said, “now, every other option having been explored, we are bringing out the clowns.”

    Nearly everything any of his critics had ever said about the kid from Kenora would prove to be true. He wouldn’t fight, couldn’t skate, back checking wasn’t something he understood. He was as far from Clark Gillies as it was possible to be. However, the one thing the critics got wrong was this, apparently 83 games isn’t long enough to find out if you can score in the NHL.

    So the moral of the story is, sometimes if you are very lucky you don’t get what you want but you do get what you need. Sometimes you go searching for a power foward and get a goal scorer. Sometimes your small right wing becomes a dominant power forward. Sometimes you go searching for Clark Gillies and end up finding Charlie Simmer.

    The Oilers should be so lucky.

  45. PaperDesigner says:

    bookje: I fully agree and I am not certain that MacT was the greatest communicator either.

    Really? Because of all the things that are a mystery to fans, the ability of the coach to communicate is one of the few that we can judge fairly. And after years of listening to the man, the only fair and reasonable conclusion is that MacTavish was and is a sublime communicator. I think there’s taking the opposite point of view, and then there’s insisting that grass is, indeed, purple. No matter how much you doubt, it doesn’t make that grass one iota more violet.

  46. Bruce McCurdy says:

    bookje:
    I think I really understand the value of Krueger now.The Oilers may not be any better this year than in past years, but Krueger is going to make us feel better about them.And really, when you think about it, that is all that matters.Look how happy everyone has been since he was hired.

    I think Krueger will make the Oilers feel better about themselves, which is more likely to have a tangible effect on their results.

    I attended the press conference where Krueger was announced, and have to say I was mighty impressed by what I saw and heard. Not only was he saying the right things, he was articulating them strongly and consistently, with a coherent philosophy. His little side job as a motivational speaker is directly relevant to his main gig, or should I say “on message”. And as we have seen, it seems to have been a key factor in recruiting J. Schultz, which is what I’d call hitting the ground running.

  47. hags9k says:

    Woodguy,

    Clowe 03-04 97 pims
    Clarkson 05-06 233 pims
    Hartikainen 11-12 27 pims

    I think this is where he doesn’t measure up if we are talking about power forwards. He’s not tough.

  48. bookje says:

    PaperDesigner: …

    Really? Because of all the things that are a mystery to fans, the ability of the coach to communicate is one of the few that we can judge fairly. And after years of listening to the man, the only fair and reasonable conclusion is that MacTavish was and is a sublime communicator. I think there’s taking the opposite point of view, and then there’s insisting that grass is, indeed, purple. No matter how much you doubt, it doesn’t make that grass one iota more violet.

    Well, after expressing the difficulty that fans face in knowing much about the situation, you sure present a strong opinion. I remember a number of players indicating frustration about communication issues. That is why I indicated that I felt there may have been some communication problems under the MacT regime. I always felt MacT was witty and insightful with the press, but I don’t know how effective he was in communicating with his players.

  49. bookje says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Bruce – I agree.

  50. uni says:

    bookje: I always felt MacT was witty and insightful with the press, but I don’t know how effective he was in communicating with his players.

    I think MacT was just fine with regard to player communication. His problem was more exasperation at having a subpar team, and stubborn players.

    I don’t know how convincing he was though, I mean he couldn’t get banana hammock to play actual NHL hockey versus Rob Schremp hockey. Then again I’m not sure even Kruger could get him to do that.

  51. blackdog says:

    LT – never mind what Toronto folks call cottage country, the Muskokas, its beautiful but packed cheek to cheek with people.

    You want to head north of Parry Sound, to my neck of the woods or the North Shore of Lake Huron or along Lake Superior around Agawa.

    If you ever decide to make the trek let me know and I’ll do my best to help with arrangements. Might even be able to take you up to our camp for a day or two if you don’t mind an outhouse, no heat or electric.

    As my Dad said last fall as we froze our asses off with only a flickering propane lamp for light:

    “Why would I want to go anywhere else, I have everything I need right here!!”

    It is beautiful though. Also he’s a nutcase.

  52. Lowetide says:

    BD: Will do. Your Dad and mine would have gotten along just fine. :-)

  53. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Power Forward History: I agree with all the names mentioned so far but thought I’d add a few from my own memories.

    Did we decide centers were cool? If so Dale Hunter was a machine and Forsberg was near impossible to knock off the puck. Also, though most forget about him for his ignoble past and steep decline, from 99-06 Bertuzzi (6’3″ 225) was pretty much a model of what a power forward is:

    GP G A P PIMS
    80 25 25 50 126
    79 25 30 55 93
    72 36 49 85 110
    82 46 51 97 144
    69 17 43 60 122
    82 25 46 71 120

    That’s an incredible 6 year run, of course Naslund was a heck of a linemate. Still, if any of the coke machines in our system come near that run, I’ll be ecstatic.

    regarding Summer spots: Living in Ontario now, I can attest to its beauty… but (and perhaps it’s nostalgia speaking, but I doubt it) I still would prefer to spend my time back in BC or Alberta: Tofino, Strathcona, Cape Scott, the Okanagan Valley, Lake Louise, Jasper, Banff, etc…

    I’d much rather be in any of those places than the admittedly lovely cottage country of Ontario.

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