RE 12-13: TEEMU HARTIKAINEN

This could be Teemu Hartikainen’s best chance to grab a job as an NHL regular. The club is looking to add size to the skill lines and the young Finn is among the best available options.

 RE 12-13: 50, 9-8-17

  1. How much will he play? It’s so difficult to read this roster as it now stands. I’m guessing that he’ll get half a job for a full season. If that makes any sense.
  2. Who gets the other half? Lots of people get at-bats. I expect coach Krueger will choose between Hartikainen and Paajarvi (as a for instance) but from the mid-summer vantage point it’s a tough read. I’m picking Hartikainen to get the big league job at the start of the season and hang around long enough to play in 50 games.
  3. How might this work? It was explained by Elliotte Friedman in his 30 thoughts year end edition. Quoting Friedman: “He (Krueger)explained that he liked Jordan Eberle with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Sam Gagner with Ales Hemsky. That not only allows him to move Hall around the lineup, but also rotate others depending on the situation — Ryan Smyth, Ryan Jones, Ben Eager and potentially even Shawn Horcoff on the wing. I’m really curious to see this. This stuff fascinates me.” Me too.
  4. Have the Oilers ever had this situation before? Back in the fall of 1996 the club had a bunch of very nice young wingers–Ryan Smyth, Miro Satan, Steve Kelly, Mike Grier, Rem Murray–it was a nice group. Would have been better if they had been able to identify Satan as a player but they had tons of talent.
  5. Who are the most talented kids on the wing? You know this: Hall, Eberle, Yakupov are the class of the group.
  6. And after that? I think Hartikainen is at the top of the next group. Joining the Finn might be Magnus Paajarvi and Linus Omark (although he is extremely unlikely to play for the Oilers again). I think the “young skill wingers with a chance” list ends at about Phil Cornet at this point.
  7. What about Pitlick and Hamilton? I don’t think we can include them on the list until their skill shows at the AHL level. It isn’t an established level of ability that we can see, as in the case of Hartikainen.
  8. How far off the pace are they? Hartikainen’s rookie AHL season saw him post 66, 17-25-42 .636; Pitlick was 72, 7-16-23 .319 and Hamilton 41, 5-6-11 .268. We don’t know the TOI or specifics but that’s a wide enough gap to suggest both players are at least a year away from being discussed as candidates for a job on any NHL skill line.
  9. Was there a big age difference? Hartikainen was 6 months older at the beginning of his AHL rookie season as compared to Pitlick and Hamilton.
  10. Why do you think Hartikainen gets the push over Paajarvi? That’s something we’ll address when we get to Paajarvi but I’ll say that it isn’t clear one way or another at this point and the RE reflects that fact.
  11. You said Hartikainen would win the opening night job. Sure, but that doesn’t mean a lot and I have Paajarvi playing in the NHL next season, too.
  12. Is this Harski’s last chance? No. Hartikainen isn’t a waiver worry this fall, but he will be next season. I have him playing 50 games this year, and if he does that the Finn will have played basically one NHL season during his entry level contract. His NHL totals would be 79, 14-13-27.
  13. Does Hartikainen have enough to make it? That’s the question. Look, we can look at NHLE and “saw him good” and quote scouts or youtube but there’s a certain amount of luck and timing in all of this making the grade stuff. If we think back on this decade, there was a time when Kyle Brodziak and Marc Pouliot looked about the same. Why did one make it and the other didn’t? Well, there are lots of reasons involving hard work, persistence, good luck bad luck and bias; those reasons will factor into the future for Hartikainen and Paajarvi.
  14. What is Hartikainen’s biggest positive? The organization needs a big winger who can hit, move bodies and win battles along the boards. Hartikainen fits many of those descriptions, certainly more than any of the other close-to-NHL-ready wingers on the team.
  15. Can he score 20 goals in a season? He scored 20 (including playoffs) a year ago in OKC. Yes, he can score 20 goals in a season with this current Oiler team.
  16. You seem certain. Hey, you put an old steel table hockey winger next to Nuge and Ebs and that guy can score a few. Hartikainen can do some things in the offensive zone and if he gets a break the big man could be this generation’s Brett Callighen or Tom Roulston. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen, but it is possible for Hartikainen to grab a career as a complementary Krushelnyski on the Nuge-Eberle line.
  17. Bottom line: does Hartikainen play a decade in Edmonton, scoring 150 goals on a skill line while helping the copper and blue win a Stanley? I don’t see it happening. I do see him having a career north of 200 games, but the Oilers already have a quality veteran under contract in Ales Hemsky, an elite #1 overall ready to unwrap in Nail Yakupov plus the foundation in Hall and Eberle. No sin in not being able to crack that nut.
  18. This is depressing. Not really. Teemu Hartikainen was taken in the 6th round four years ago and has been in 29 NHL games. He’s the best late round pick by the Oilers since Kyle Brodziak in 2003. He could have a long and productive career, but my guess is that he doesn’t play on a skill line for the Oilers 2013-20.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

38 Responses to "RE 12-13: TEEMU HARTIKAINEN"

  1. BlacqueJacque says:

    I so want him to turn out as a good power forward, but I just get the feeling he’ll never quite get there. Raffi Torres (less the massive suspensions). Not a bad thing, just not what you really hope for.

    I’m hoping they put Pitlick back at centre. We’re a little loaded on the right side.

  2. Woodguy says:

    13. Does Hartikainen have enough to make it? That’s the question. Look, we can look at NHLE and “saw him good” and quote scouts or youtube but there’s a certain amount of luck and timing in all of this making the grade stuff. If we think back on this decade, there was a time when Kyle Brodziak and Marc Pouliot looked about the same. Why did one make it and the other didn’t? Well, there are lots of reasons involving hard work, persistence, good luck bad luck and bias; those reasons will factor into the future for Hartikainen and Paajarvi.

    You missed the most important factor.

    He’s a Finn.

    He will Winn.

    1) Go to the corner and get the puck.

    2) Give it to one of the other guys.

    3) Go to the net with your stick on the ice

    4) Profit.

  3. "Steve Smith" says:

    Great assessment, LT. I’m broadly pro-Hartikainen, but I can’t help but to feel that the major argument in favour of his being good enough to play on a line with the skilled kids is that it would be really helpful if he was.

  4. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    Been down this road before.

    I don’t see it happening Hartikainen becoming this absolutely work horse, power forward that’s going to go out and magically create havoc and space for his mate’s!

    I watched every game, I went to 21 games and I never seen him as this type of player, you want a guy who can go work the corners then I agree, but he doesn’t bring enough of the other intangibles to the game, he’s a stop gap for the team.

    The Oilers need a legit option for this type of player.
    Lucic- Clowe- Glencross- Stewart – Backes – Neal – Benn
    Hartikanien is not even in the second tier of power forwards.
    Brouwer- D.Brown – S. Ott – Dubinsky- Downie – Malone –
    He lacks that mean streak and will rarely or never fight to stick up for himself or for his teammates.
    In my opinion, to be a true power forward you have to be able to go off the edge a few times a year and put points up, initiate instead of react and drop the gloves as needed, Hartikainen is none of this.
    4th line energy guy fine, not a go between 1st and 2nd lines

  5. stevezie says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Great assessment, LT.I’m broadly pro-Hartikainen, but I can’t help but to feel that the major argument in favour of his being good enough to play on a line with the skilled kids is that it would be really helpful if he was.

    I’d say the sylllogism goes like this
    1) We need a big, tough, rough winger with the skating and talent required to play on a skill line.
    2) We have Harski
    Therefore
    3) Harski is a big, tough, rough winger with the skating and talent required to play on a skill line.

  6. "Steve Smith" says:

    stevezie,

    Couldn’t have said it better myself, which is why I didn’t.

  7. VOR says:

    Not to difficult but can somebody define power forward for me. Lets try it this way, is Alexi Ponikarvosky a power forward? Why or why not? How about Dustin Penner?

  8. Lowetide says:

    It’s probably different for everyone. I would say a big, physical forward who can win battles, impose his will physically and intimidate opponents while giving his team 20+ goal potential. Poni wouldn’t qualify under my definition, Ryan Smyth either.

    Which isn’t to say they are poor players, I’d take both of them on my team any time. John Ferguson was, Milan Lucic was, Clark Gillies was.

  9. Rondo says:

    LT,

    OT: Why do you think it took this long to sign Daniel Winnik ?

  10. Woodguy says:

    Wes Mantooth-11,

    The Oilers need a legit option for this type of player.
    Lucic- Clowe- Glencross- Stewart – Backes – Neal – Benn
    Hartikanien is not even in the second tier of power forwards.
    Brouwer- D.Brown – S. Ott – Dubinsky- Downie – Malone –
    He lacks that mean streak and will rarely or never fight to stick up for himself or for his teammates.
    In my opinion, to be a true power forward you have to be able to go off the edge a few times a year and put points up, initiate instead of react and drop the gloves as needed, Hartikainen is none of this.
    4th line energy guy fine, not a go between 1st and 2nd lines

    I think you’d rather have an established guy rather than a young guy.

    That’s fine. I’d always rather have a proven NHLer over a “maybe guy”

    However, if you compare Harski to all the guys you listed, he looks ok. (also, FU for listing so many guys, I had to look them all up *shakes fist at Wes Mantooth*)

    I believe that age is the largest determining factor on how a player plays vis a vis his peers.

    So Harski just turned 22 (May 3rd) at the end of last year, so I am going to compare everyone you listed at the end of they year of the year they were 21 for the majority of the year with their NHL totals in order of NHL points per game as well as their draft position.

    Dubinsky – 82gp 14g 26a 40pts 0.488pts/gm – 60th overall
    Neal – 77gp 24g 13a 37pts 0.480pts/gm – 33rd overall
    Lucic 199gp 34g 55a 89pts 0.447pts/gm – 50th overall
    Brown – 70gp 14g 14a 28pts 0.400pts/gm – 12th overall
    Stewart – 53gp 11g 8a 19pts 0.358pts.gm – 18th overall
    Harski 29pg 5g 5a 10pts 0.335pts/gm 163rd overall
    Ott – 73pg 2g 10a 12pts 0.164pts/gm – 25th overall
    Brouwer – 10gp 0g 0a 0pts 0.00pts/gm – 214th overall
    Downie 6gp 0g 0g 0pts 0.00pts.gm – 29th overall
    Glencross – Not in NHL Not drafted
    Malone – Not in NHL – 115th overall

    By this way of looking at things you might have the player you want. Its just a year or two away from him being what you want.

    He’s already on the roster so he’s infinitely easier and cheaper to obtain for the Oilers than anyone else.

    I will always have a special place of disdain in my heart for Lowe for not returning Glencross’ phone calls when he wanted to re-sign here.

  11. Lowetide says:

    Rondo:
    LT,

    OT: Why do you think it took this long to sign Daniel Winnik ?

    He might have been waiting for the Sharks or Coyotes and grown tired of doing it, or there’s a chance no one wanted him. I don’t think that would be the case–he’s a player of value–but let’s face it this is a weird free agent season.

  12. jp says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Great assessment, LT.I’m broadly pro-Hartikainen, but I can’t help but to feel that the major argument in favour of his being good enough to play on a line with the skilled kids is that it would be really helpful if he was.

    Yeah, Harti playing in the top 6 will be a style/need/hope decision more than based on merit. He’s no JFJ – he does have some skill and some scoring ability, but he’s definitely more of a bottom 6 player. This is a 20-25 goal player in the AHL (full season projection). Hoping he can score 20 in the NHL is asking a lot. I guess it is possible, but not very likely.

    And as mentioned already, he does have size, some grit, and hits, but he doesn’t appear to bring much protection or meanness to the table. Unfortunately he is not ‘the answer’ to the Oilers lack of size and grit in the top 6.

    WGs comps suggest some hope, but I have serious doubts he can bring his game up enough to stick in the top 6 long term. Doesn’t hurt to give him a shot though, nothing to lose.

  13. VOR says:

    I am sorry I am still confused. Even the wikipedia entry suggests whether or not someone is a power forward is purely a matter of opinion. So let me narrow it down further. Is Tuomu Ruutu a power forward?

  14. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    Woodguy,

    Thanks for doing that work Woodguy, it does put into perspective on the prospect side of the issue.

    Again appreciate the effort.

    I maybe wrong on my expectations of Hartikanien vs what the Oilers or even yourself might view him as, for that I can also appreciate others point of view.

    So I don’t want to come off as negative on the player, as an Oilers fan I truly hope he can bring something.

    I just don’t know what that something is? If it’s there I haven’t seen it yet, only glimpse’s of it and even then only one aspect of what I believe the type of player the Oilers truly need.

    If points and size were the only things the Oilers needed out of this type of player I would be on yours and LT’s side.

    Again thanks for the stats, they did make a difference despite my stance on Harti

  15. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    VOR,

    Agitator! Pest. Ha, another to look up!

  16. admiralmark says:

    I can’t help but think in this year of evaluating and assessing Sam Gagner… If the destiny of Gagner as an Oiler might end up being tied into the success or lack thereof by either Hartikanen or Paajarvi.? Either one of these big wingers work out and show some success in the top 6 this season or Gagner may be the chess piece moved to get larger up front? Although Hall working at Center would probably create the same result.

  17. Ducey says:

    He’s not the right size. The Oilers will never win with someone this size in their lineup.

  18. VOR says:

    I am still confused. How many goals does a power forward need to score, how many fights does he need to have, how many hits does he need to throw, how many suspensions does he need to have? Does he need to win his fights?

    I should explain my problem. The term is borrowed from basketball where it has a definition. In hockey power forwardness is in the eye of the beholder. Yet I keep reading here that we need one, but since nobody can define it we have no idea how many there are in all of hockey. Nor can we see if they actually have any impact on whether you win or lose.

    It is just like the constant litany of the Oilers have to be bigger. I think what most posters are saying is they need to be tougher. Is Dustin Brown a power forward? How about Mike Richards?

    Let me ask it this way, would adding Mike Richards, Dustin Brown, and Derek Dorsett make us tough enough to win a Stanley Cup?

  19. Traktor says:

    VOR:

    Let me ask it this way, would adding Mike Richards, Dustin Brown, and Derek Dorsett make us tough enough to win a Stanley Cup?

    I think so.

  20. Gerta Rauss says:

    VOR,

    This same issue was addressed in 1964 by the US Supreme Court

    I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within
    that shorthand description ["power forward"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly
    doing so. But I know it when I see it

    -US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart

  21. Oilanderp says:

    Power fwds are obscenity with hands!

  22. Oilanderp says:

    …and what’s with the old Golden Seals logo guy, LT? Are you suggesting Harski won’t make it in Edmonton but will then carve out a career somewhere in California? Not another Oiler to L.A.!

  23. Lowetide says:

    Nah, just a blast from my past. I played table hockey as a kid and the Seals were one of the teams from my game. Man I loved table hockey.

  24. TheOtherJohn says:

    Vor

    Gillies, Tonelli and Nystrom were all power forwards. On one team. Did not have to fight too much. At end of gme playing against those three guys you were tired. Kopitar, Brown, Richards are all power forwards. We have 1 big body that fit’s that definition:Eager he just doesn’t play like one

  25. OilClog says:

    Eager does, can, and will play like one again, be it here or not.

    Before he came here and hit the Russian train.. Eager was a unpredictable nut that hit everything and potted a few goals. Sharks took him out against Vancouver and they lost the series. Concusions are huge, he’s valuable and hopefully bounces back. Lots of who cans could be filled with a motivated eager.

  26. PerryK says:

    My definition of a Power Forward is a player that often uses his strength rather than finesse to bring the puck into good scoring positions. When you first watched Harski come off the boards (about the icing line if I remember correctly) and take the puck past two defenders towards the net, protecting the puck from their sticks with simply his body and go there in a straight line, you had your first glimpse of a power forward just discovered on the Oilers roster. Too bad he hasn’t done that more often!

    Of course, Iggy does it all the time. If you watch some of Ryan Smyth’s highlights from the Doug Weight era, you will see what that looks like very often.

    In any case, my definition of a Power Forward is someone who takes the most direct, yet the most defended path to a good scoring area successfully. What it does is it creates extra time and space for the more finesse oriented team mates, in that this type of player occupies the efforts and attention of more than one defender at a time.

  27. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    VOR,

    I don’t know if you’re being ambiguously facetious or not?

    I find it incredible hard to take you seriously if you don’t know or understand the meaning of being a “power forward” in the NHL?

    If you watch hockey can you tell me the difference between Ryan or Lucic?

    Nash or Clowe – Spezza or Getzlaf

    You can’t tell the other intangible’s that Lucic and company bring? Or why those types are coveted by all 30 NHL teams… really?

    Your question is about the same as me asking if you can tell the difference of a defensive defensemen over and offensive defensemen. There defensemen!

    Like the other guy said, I know one when I see one!

  28. Captain Obvious says:

    I’m with Vor. Power forward is a meaningless term. Using it necessarily invites conceptual confusion and retards rational conversation.

  29. franksterra says:

    PerryK:
    My definition of a Power Forward is a player that often uses his strength rather than finesse to bring the puck into good scoring positions.When you first watched Harski come off the boards (about the icing line if I remember correctly) and take the puck past two defenders towards the net, protecting the puck from their sticks with simply his body and go there in a straight line, you had your first glimpse of a power forward just discovered on the Oilers roster.Too bad he hasn’t done that more often!

    Of course, Iggy does it all the time.If you watch some of Ryan Smyth’s highlights from the Doug Weight era, you will see what that looks like very often.

    In any case, my definition of a Power Forward is someone who takes the most direct, yet the most defended path to a good scoring area successfully.What it does is it creates extra time and space for the more finesse oriented team mates, in that this type of player occupies the efforts and attention of more than one defender ata time.

    This looks like a great description to me. At the heart of it isn’t sheer height, weight, nastiness or fighting ability (while those surely might be nice too), but a style of play and the strength and mass to play it successfully at a high level: create a defensive zone quandry for opponents by using body positioning, strength, balance and tenacity to carry the puck into high quality scoring positions, likely drawing more than one defender, opening up ice for other attackers and making the goalie question whether he needs to factor in the power move to the net, a shot or a pass, rather than only the last two.

    Typically the PF would also be a bruising forechecker and have the build and balance (or ‘defensive mechanisms’ in the forearm, elbow and buttend vein) to survive close checking, double teaming and retaliatory violence.

    I reserve judgement as to whether we have such a player, or need one…

  30. Woodguy says:

    Wes Mantooth-11,

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have the guys you listed as well.

    That type of player is valuable and I really hope Harski becomes an Actual NHL player and I think its too early to be certain on what exactly he will be.

    Glencross would look really good with 93 and 14.

    I have a soft spot for Harski and am really pulling for him.

    Whoever plays with 93 and 14 is going to get the cherry Ozone starts and put up some points, I hope its Harski or MPS (assuming the Oilers don’t make a trade for an F)

  31. Woodguy says:

    I missed a little bit of data last night (blame it on the beverages)

    Here are the same guys with the missing info and the subsequent re-seeding:

    Neal – 77gp 24g 13a 37pts 0.480pts/gm – 33rd overall

    Dubinsky – 88gp 14g 26a 40pts 0.455pts/gm – 60th overall

    Lucic – 199gp 34g 55a 89pts 0.447pts/gm – 50th overall

    Stewart – 53gp 11g 8a 19pts 0.358pts.gm – 18th overall

    Harski – 29pg 5g 5a 10pts 0.335pts/gm 163rd overall

    Brown –110gp 15g 18a 33pts 0.300pts/gm – 12th overall

    Downie 29gp 3g 3g 6pts .206pts.gm – 29th overall

    Ott – 99pg 5g 14a 19pts 0.191pts/gm – 25th overall

    Brouwer – 10gp 0g 0a 0pts 0.00pts/gm – 214th overall

    Glencross – Not in NHL Not drafted

    Malone – Not in NHL – 115th overall

  32. Mike Modano's Dog says:

    VOR,

    Perhaps it would help if you gave us the definition of the power forward you mention in basketball…the funny thing is I have no idea what that means in b-ball and have wondered that, too.

    The purest, simplest definition that would describe what a power forward is, and traditionally has been:

    BIG
    MEAN
    TOUGH
    INTIMIDATES
    FIGHTS, and
    WINS those fights more often than not

    that’s all well and good, but that could aptly describe a checker or fighter only, so then you have to add:

    SCORER
    GOES TO THE NET HARD
    WORKS HARD
    NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO MOVE WHEN SCREENING THE GOALIE
    CAN PLAY ON YOUR TOP 2 SKILL LINES

    So basically you’ve got the best attributes of your tough guy together with your scorer – and it is VERY RARE TO ACTUALLY FIND. Think Cam Neely…and keep in mind he was considered something of a disappointment earlier in his career and was traded from Vancouver, if memory serves me correctly!

    I believe one of the reasons you find so many definitions is how many of these players there are to be found. They are so incredibly rare, and people want that player type – badly.

    Then you’ve got that home team bias, thinking your team is better and your players are better and can do more than they can. So a lot of these traits can be justified as being left out because it’s so hard to find one of these players. Could the Oilers use a guy that has even some of these traits in combination – absolutely. I think that’s why people are excited by Hartikainen…but that still doesn’t mean he’s going to be a power forward. That’s up to him and we’ll wait and see.

    Then there is one more issue that springs up today that wouldn’t have many years ago. Fighting. Some don’t think it’s necessary in the game anymore (don’t get me started on that) and then therefore remove fighting from the definition. Personally I think that confuses the definition needlessly. Take fighting out if you must but it always has been part of what a power forward does.

    Each to his own in that sense…but there is your definition of everything a power forward does.

    There’s maybe one or two of those pure player types each generation it seems to me, so the term tends to get watered down a bit in hopes of landing one.

    Hope that helps…just my opinion and what I’d always heard growing up following hockey.

  33. hunter1909 says:

    Hartikainen twice has shone in end of season, meaningless situations.

    Let’s get excited.

  34. hunter1909 says:

    Call me a mindless optimist, and when it goes with this team I am, but Kreuger doesn’t half have the manner of a seriously up and coming coach.

    I’ll decline praising Tambellini, either for this hire or anything good that’s happened to the team since season’s end, like Schultz for example. Or even drafting Nail Yakupov, in face of the fools chorus demanding a trade down.

    Hall+Yakupov+Eberle+RNH = future 2010′s dynasty.

  35. FastOil says:

    VOR,

    Power forward I think is best described as an attitude – players that attempt to impose their will aggressively with physicality. Being big of course helps but isn’t always the case. Lots of players have the size but not the attitude. Elite power forwards consistently produce well offensively and don’t actually exist. Lucic doesn’t count because he isn’t human.

  36. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    Woodguy,

    Again, appreciate the effort there Woodguy, it’s pretty cool how some of those guy’s really have come on in the last few year.

    You can also count me in as one of the WTF were they thinking when it comes to Glencross. It’s a real sore spot for me. Sticks in my craw!

  37. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Wes Mantooth-11,

    Wes Mantooth-11: WTF were they thinking when it comes to Glencross

    Paraphrasing: “HOSSA! HOSSA! HOSSA!”

    Sticks in my craw too. They made a good trade, and had a key piece right under their noses … and let him walk to Calgary FFS.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca