SIGNING YAKUPOV

I think we’re at a point where we can say “there’s nothing to worry about, but…..” in regard to Nail  Yakupov’s unsigned entry level contract.

First let me say there’s no cause for panic. The entire NHL has signed one player from the 2012 draft (Radek Faksa, yesterday) and there’s tons of time to get things done.

Second let me say that the Edmonton Oilers management team had to be supremely confident that they could sign Yakupov or they would not have invested a number one overall selection on him. NOT signing Yakupov–and losing him to the KHL–is not acceptable.

Finally, let me say that everything Nail Yakupov said before and after being drafted tells us his goal is to be an NHL player. This is not a “panic now!” situation.

So what is it? Oilers were busy with draft, coach, free agency, development camp, their own rfa’s and now Hall/Eberle contracts. I’ve also seen some mention of a “CHL delay” but those transfers are automatic.

Yakupov could have been signed during the development camp and before he went back home. It didn’t happen. No big deal, no cause for panic. Knowing the Oilers they wanted to get prime pub from it and it’ll happen with much hoopla as part of Hall and Ebs signing their new contracts (the Nuge can be there too!).

Hall signed July 5. The Nuge signed July 2. Yakupov’s contract signing will hit the news sometime soon. The Oilers have had an excellent summer, that kind of setback would ruin the momentum built through adding MacT, Krueger, Yakupov, Schultz and Smyth.

It’ll happen. Any day now.

NATION RADIO

Today at noon on Team 1260, we’ll hit the airwaves with two hours of Oilers talk. Past, present and future, with the major NHL stories of the week added to the discussion. Scheduled to appear:

  • Jeff Marek host of HockeyCentral on Sportsnet. We’ll talk free agency and the Canadian teams, Minnesota’s free agent surprise and hurting songs in Nashville.
  • Kent Wilson, Nations Overlord. We tried to give Kent a break this week, but the Flames kept adding people. We’ll talk Hudler, JayBo trade (?) and what all this adding means to Baertschi and Reinhart.
  • Andrey Osadchenko from All hockey ru and The Hockey News. Andrey is a brilliant source of news on Russian hockey players and we’ll spend a few minutes talking Yakupov, Marincin and others.
  • Jason Strudwick from Oilers Nation. Jason is a great source of information and we’ll talk about the draft, free agency and his recent retirement from pro hockey.
  • Jonathan Willis from the Edmonton Journal’s Cult of Hockey, the Nations Netowrk and Grantland. Jon will discuss the draft, free agency and tell us if the Oilers are done.

Team 1260, noon to 2. Your questions are always welcome, twitter @lowetide_ and @ItsNationRadio or email nationradio@theteam1260.com and you can post your questions in the comments section below.

Looking forward to the show, hope you can join me.

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81 Responses to "SIGNING YAKUPOV"

  1. sliderule says:

    The kid was just loving the rock star adulation he was getting in Edmonton.

    I bet he is already missing it and can’t wait to get back here.

  2. jonrmcleod says:

    Stauffer was the one who mentioned a hold-up with the CHL. But then he said he was going to check into that because he wasn’t really sure about it. He did say that Yakupov has notified Sarnia that he won’t be back there in the fall. Of course, #1 overall picks usually go directly to the NHL, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

  3. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Aren’t these ELCs basically form-letters that you sign and shove in a closet somewhere to make some bureaucrat happy all the t’s are crossed?

    I don’t see why they wouldn’t just get him to sign the second after they called his name… “sign here kid, don’t worry about it… you’ve got two kidneys… sign… good… operation room 4… you’ll be fine in a week”

    I wouldn’t have waited a second to insist on the signing… the fan-fare argument makes sense but seems like an unnecssary risk…

    after all… Yakupov is back home now, getting all kinds of attention and probably some offers… and the media is probably showing him Radulov’s $$… that’s got to be pretty tempting… “beauty” as Yak would say repetitively like the only movie he’d ever seen was Strange Brew:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4KTebUT6Mw

  4. slopitch says:

    Hey LT, you think you could get Katz as a guest? I probably can’t afford it but I’d like to know what hair product he uses. Maybe some hockey stuff too

    Andrey – what’s up with Semin
    Jason – if the Oilers could fix one area of need this summer what would it be.
    JW – why he’s causing so many fights on Twitter. He wrote a good article predicting Minnesota improvement. Could he guess the rest of the NW?

    I think Yakapov signs quickly here like you say.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Rom: I agree and found it interesting that Bob McKenzie said exactly the same thing about 10 seconds after Yak was drafted.

    I can’t imagine this not working out, it would be nuclear winter for all involved.

  6. Scott Reynolds says:

    Seems possible to me that they might wait until after the team sends Musil out at training camp so that they can retain some flexibility with regard to the 50-man limit on contracts. It’s not like there’s a whole lot to negotiate here. He’s getting the maximum deal.

  7. Lowetide says:

    Scott Reynolds:
    Seems possible to me that they might wait until after the team sends Musil out at training camp so that they can retain some flexibility with regard to the 50-man limit on contracts. It’s not like there’s a whole lot to negotiate here. He’s getting the maximum deal.

    Can Yak attend camp without a contract?

  8. Scott Reynolds says:

    Lowetide,

    Do you mean, “Is it a good idea?” or “Is it allowed?”

    It’s clearly allowed (every other player drafted from the CHL will attend without a contract), but yeah, not sure it’s a particularly good idea. If they do go that way, they’d better explain why the kid hasn’t signed before he arrives.

  9. Cactus says:

    Scott Reynolds,

    If that’s true, they may not be waiting till training camp, but rather until later in July when they’ve had a chance to make a trade or two. If they need to take an extra contract in an initial deal in order to set up a second one, they may desire contract flexibility.

  10. Cactus says:

    Lowetide,

    I agree with all of the above LT, except to add that there’s simply no precedent for a top pick heading to the KHL. Radulov is often cited in the MSM but he’s simply not a comparable. Guys like Ovechkin and Malkin are. It’s clear that despite the money Radulov is making, guys like Ovechkin and Malkin are doing a lot better because the top money in the NHL (esp. with endorements) significantly outpaces the best KHL funds.

  11. Lowetide says:

    Cactus:
    Lowetide,

    I agree with all of the above LT, except to add that there’s simply no precedent for a top pick heading to the KHL.Radulov is often cited in the MSM but he’s simply not a comparable.Guys like Ovechkin and Malkin are.It’s clear that despite the money Radulov is making, guys like Ovechkin and Malkin are doing a lot better because the top money in the NHL (esp. with endorements) significantly outpaces the best KHL funds.

    Cactus: Certainly. I can’t imagine a scenario where he doesn’t sign. Not possible.

  12. Woodguy says:

    LT,

    Can you have a conversation with Jason Strudwick about the type of Dman the Oilers need to add?

    He had a conversation about it yesterday with Gregor and I thought Jason nailed it.

    Assuming you didn’t pre-tape the interview.

    Not worried about Yak.

    Not sure why they didn’t do it at the end of the rookie thing.

    How many contracts are they at?

  13. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    LT,

    Can you have a conversation with Jason Strudwick about the type of Dman the Oilers need to add?

    He had a conversation about it yesterday with Gregor and I thought Jason nailed it.

    Assuming you didn’t pre-tape the interview.

    Not worried about Yak.

    Not sure why they didn’t do it at the end of the rookie thing.

    How many contracts are they at?

    47 according to capgeek
    http://capgeek.com/reserve_lists.php?team_id=1&year_id=2012

    2 likely sliders in there, Klefbom and Musil. So 45. Lots of room.

    Great question, I’ll ask.

  14. Cactus says:

    Lowetide,

    I was wondering if you could ask Jonathan about line combinations next season. We had a good thread on this a couple days ago and I’d be interested on his views. Particularly, I’m curious about what he thinks the best forward combinations would be.

  15. Scott Reynolds says:

    Lowetide,

    Woodguy,

    Capgeek hasn’t added Byers yet, so they’re actually at 48 right now. Depending on what else they want to do before TC, that may not be a lot of room.

  16. wheatnoil says:

    Any chance guys like Yakupov or Murray (who expect to play in the NHL next year) want to stall a bit to see if the new CBA increases the rookie maximum ?

  17. Lowetide says:

    wheatnoil:
    Any chance guys like Yakupov or Murray (who expect to play in the NHL next year) want to stall a bit to see if the new CBA increases the rookie maximum ?

    Great, great question.

  18. Lowetide says:

    Cactus:
    Lowetide,

    I was wondering if you could ask Jonathan about line combinations next season.We had a good thread on this a couple days ago and I’d be interested on his views.Particularly, I’m curious about what he thinks the best forward combinations would be.

    I’ll ask for sure.

  19. Clay says:

    wheatnoil,

    There may be something to that. Although, maybe they run the risk of it going the other way? Any chance the rookie maximum is less under the new CBA?

  20. Cactus says:

    Clay:
    wheatnoil,

    There may be something to that.Although, maybe they run the risk of it going the other way?Any chance the rookie maximum is less under the new CBA?

    That`s what I`ve heard being a possibility as well. The easiest people to screw in any CBA negotiations are the players who aren`t playing yet.

    One issue that I`ve heard is definitely on the table is figuring out how to calculate rookie bonuses under the cap. That`s one of the reasons I’m not terrified about signing the kids (yet). In cap terms, we’re already paying Hall, RNH and soon Yakupov $3.75M per. A Tavares-esque deal adds only about $2M to those hits. Of course, Eberle is in for a big increase.

  21. jp says:

    Scott Reynolds:
    Seems possible to me that they might wait until after the team sends Musil out at training camp so that they can retain some flexibility with regard to the 50-man limit on contracts. It’s not like there’s a whole lot to negotiate here. He’s getting the maximum deal.

    Would be weird if they signed Musil a week ago and now are waiting on Yak due to too many contracts. Seems like the wrong player left without a deal to me. Is there some deadline for signing guys like Musil now rather than later in the summer that I’m not aware of?

    There is some negotiation regarding the bonuses for these ELCs, but tough to imagine any real sticking points for a Yak deal. Hopefully they’re just waiting for a big announcement/press conference with some other deals.

  22. wheatnoil says:

    Clay,

    All this is speculation, of course, but Zi would be surprised if it went down. The rookie max has stayed the same since the last CBA ( I think) and since then the cap and average salary had gone up… one would assume it’s due for a raise.

  23. Woodguy says:

    To clarify, I though Strudwick nailed it. (Two Jason’s in that conversation)

  24. Lowetide says:

    btw, if you don’t follow Willis on twitter I’d suggest starting. He’s going off on fake rumor tweets and it’s kind of hilarious!

  25. Yeti says:

    Woodguy,

    Are you going to keep us in suspense?

  26. Mike Modano's Dog says:

    Man I love Scarlett Johansson…oh yeah, and I like hockey too!

  27. jonrmcleod says:

    Lowetide,

    Maybe you could ask Willis why he is so against the fake rumor guys. He seems to be on some sort of crusade against them.

  28. Woodguy says:

    Yeti:
    Woodguy,

    Are you going to keep us in suspense?

    Might as well let Strudwick tell it first to LT.

  29. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Both Hall & RNH signed before summer camp, which was quite a bit later the last two years (starting up right around now, rather than already long over). I believe Hall signed & took to the ice, or at least the off-ice, the same day.

  30. jonrmcleod says:

    Yakupov:

    “Lots of people asked me: ‘What if you’re offered big contract? Would you leave?’ I thought I said everything that was needed to be said when I said ‘I want to play in the NHL’. Yet, they still ask me this. I want to play in the NHL. That’s the bottom line. Knock it off.”

    Knock it off.

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/7/7/nail-yakupov-i-want-to-prove-to-the-oilers-they-made-the-right-choice

  31. Mike Modano's Dog says:

    Now about hockey, I too wish he would have signed immediately. The thing is I wish I could just ignore it but the reality is it is less clear now than it was. I would be lying if I said I didn’t worry about this at the time of the draft.

    The security of Ryan Murray, Griffin Reinhart and yes, even Alex Galchenyuk (regarding the likelihood of playing here and not in the KHL) made me believe those would be the better picks but I could be proven wrong. I HOPE very badly that I am proven wrong – and I’m wrong lots of the time!!!

    The thing is no matter which way this thing goes in the short term it is just that, short term. Wherever we are in 5 or 6 years time when that hindsight bias kicks in, the answer will seem to have been so easy, and so obvious . But with not being able to read the future and all, as it is today, it is anything but clear – unless:

    1)Yakupov sings with us now, and not in the KHL
    2)He becomes the superstar he seems destined to become – and finally…
    3)He doesn’t want to bolt anytime soon afterwards…which people could do from any country, not just Russia. :)

  32. jake70 says:

    “….I don’t talk to Edmonton and Edmonton doesn’t talk to me……” anyone know who said that? ;-)
    (don’t mind me I am just panicking…..lol)

  33. Mike Modano's Dog says:

    jake70,

    lol…no I don’t know who said that – who?

  34. jp says:

    jake70:
    “….I don’t talk to Edmonton and Edmonton doesn’t talk to me……” anyone know who said that?
    (don’t mind me I am just panicking…..lol)

    Omark, no?. Yak’s a few years off from this sort of thing at least :)

    Speaking of Omark, wonder if Kruger thinks he can play? There’s not much room for him at the inn, but you never know. I think there’s some chance he’s still an Oiler in the fall, especially since his trade value appears to be almost nill.

  35. steveb12344 says:

    jake70,

    Yak’s agent Larionov, and it was before the draft when edmonton wasn’t talking to anybody about thier pick.

    I can’t believe that some are still worrying about this supposed KHL risk.

    The kid has said a million times that he doesn’t care about money, and only wants to play in the NHL.

    It is a moot point!

  36. Gret99zky says:

    Gillis and Tallon would have signed this guy weeks ago.

    :)

  37. Mike Modano's Dog says:

    steveb12344,

    Trust me – I really WANT to believe! It’s nothing against Yakupov, and I’m sure he will sign here and everything will be fine. It’s just that people have been known to say one thing when it is ‘best’ for them at the time – and then change their mind to what is ‘best’ for them personally, later.

    The “you yourself have a head coach” quote comes to mind…as well as any college player’s commitment (get there signature on a contract!)

    I just seems it is a rare person that will stand by their word if it is not in their best interest later…and what we perceive to be their ‘best interest’ is inconsequential, only their personal perception matters.

    P.S. Is inconsequential a word? I thought it was…

  38. "Steve Smith" says:

    Mike Modano’s Dog:
    P.S.Is inconsequential a word?I thought it was…

    Yes. And I think that it means what you think that it means.

  39. D says:

    LT and Romulus,

    It is essentially a form contract. But since the Oilers are in the entertainment business, it does make sense to get the most entertainment value out of signing a piece of paper. Unless something has gone wrong, it is quite possible that Nail has already signed (or signed a letter of intent with a confidentiality clause) and that, for entertainment value, the Oilers are timing the announcement.

  40. Ducey says:

    Would be weird if they signed Musil a week ago and now are waiting on Yak due to too many contracts. Seems like the wrong player left without a deal to me. Is there some deadline for signing guys like Musil now rather than later in the summer that I’m not aware of?

    Musil’s deal slides if he doesn’t play pro this year (he won’t) so it doesn’t count towards the 50.

  41. steveb12344 says:

    Mike Modano’s Dog,

    Mike Modano’s Dog: steveb12344, Trust me – I really WANT to believe! It’s nothing against Yakupov, and I’m sure he will sign here and everything will be fine. It’s just that people have been known to say one thing when it is ‘best’ for them at the time – and then change their mind to what is ‘best’ for them personally, later. The “you yourself have a head coach” quote comes to mind…as well as any college player’s commitment (get there signature on a contract!) I just seems it is a rare person that will stand by their word if it is not in their best interest later…and what we perceive to be their ‘best interest’ is inconsequential, only their personal perception matters.P.S. Is inconsequential a word? I thought it was…

    To quote the great Ray Davies “Paranoia will destroya”

    But seriously though. If his dream and his goal is to be the best player in the best league in the world, then how is it in his best interest to shun the NHL and play elsewhere?

    I know alot of you think it is only about money, but one thing that most of the very best players in most sports have in common is that they would play the game for free, or give away all the money in the world just to be the best at what they do.

    These days anyone who is any good will get paid well. It is not the prospect of getting a few extra million on the top of thier already multi- million dollar contracts that drives them to be better than everyone else. That has to come from deep within, and has nothing to do with money!

  42. jp says:

    Ducey:

    Musil’s deal slides if he doesn’t play pro this year (he won’t) so it doesn’t count towards the 50.

    I know that, but can they go over the 50 contract limit as long as they’re down to 50 by the start of the season? Or is it a hard cap such that no team can ever have more than 50 players under contract?

    It it’s the former, than it’s pretty much a non-issue generally and specifically re: Yak’s contract.

  43. Professor Q says:

    steveb12344,

    Didn’t Riley Nash also say something similar before demanding a trade?

  44. bookje says:

    Mike Modano’s Dog:
    steveb12344,

    P.S.Is inconsequential a word?I thought it was…

    I don’t really think it matters much at all if it is or isn’t.

  45. bookje says:

    steveb12344:
    Mike Modano’s Dog,

    To quote the great Ray Davies “Paranoia will destroya”

    To quote the Barstool Prophets, just because we are paranoid doesn’t mean that people are not actually out to get us.

  46. steveb12344 says:

    Professor Q,

    Sooooo, now we’re comparing Riley Nash to Nail Yakupov….. That’s pretty weak dude!

    If you believe there is any chance that the next team Yak signs on to play for will be anyone other than the oilers, then you are a fool and your opinion should be worth less than Omarks trade value!

    Barring of course any inclusion in some kind of blockbuster trade before the season starts. Though i think due to his already immense popularity in Edmonton, that that is highly unlikely.

  47. Woodguy says:

    jonrmcleod:
    Yakupov:

    “Lots of people asked me: ‘What if you’re offered big contract? Would you leave?’ I thought I said everything that was needed to be said when I said ‘I want to play in the NHL’. Yet, they still ask me this. I want to play in the NHL. That’s the bottom line. Knock it off.”

    Knock it off.

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/7/7/nail-yakupov-i-want-to-prove-to-the-oilers-they-made-the-right-choice

    Awesome.

    End of discussion

    Knock it off.

  48. Woodguy says:

    Professor Q:
    steveb12344,

    Didn’t Riley Nash also say something similar before demanding a trade?

    Knock it off.

  49. Woodguy says:

    Mike Modano’s Dog:
    steveb12344,

    Trust me – I really WANT to believe!It’s nothing against Yakupov, and I’m sure he will sign here and everything will be fine.It’s just that people have been known to say one thing when it is ‘best’ for them at the time – and then change their mind to what is ‘best’ for them personally, later.

    The “you yourself have a head coach” quote comes to mind…as well as any college player’s commitment (get there signature on a contract!)

    I just seems it is a rare person that will stand by their word if it is not in their best interest later…and what we perceive to be their ‘best interest’ is inconsequential, only their personal perception matters.

    P.S.Is inconsequential a word?I thought it was…

    Knock it off.

  50. steveb12344 says:

    Woodguy,

    Woodguy: Awesome.End of discussionKnock it off.

    THIS X10

  51. Professor Q says:

    steveb12344,

    I never said such a thing sir! Never crossed my mind he won’t sign until the discussion here – I was simply stating what I thought was miscommunication from the Oilers management to Riley Nash and the resultant trade and how it related to the quote. Didn’t realise how I could have been misconstrued before posting, sorry.

  52. Woodguy says:

    Yeti:
    Woodguy,

    Are you going to keep us in suspense?

    Strudwick said to Gregor (and said almost the same thing to LT) that the Oilers need to add a puck mover.

    Out of the 8 DMen the Oilers have only 3 are puck movers. Petry, J.Shultz (rookie), Whitney (health questions)

    They Oilers have no puck movers coming in behind to help when one of those 3 (or more) go down.

    Puck moving D is critical to the Oiler’s offense. They score more on the rush and less on the cycle than most NHL teams, so having the puck movers back there is the most important aspect to keeping the team competitive.

    I agree 100%

    I think Streit would be awesome.

    Gunnarsson would be good too.

    I like Tyutin, but his contract length vis vi is age is a concern.

    Bouwmeester would be good too.

    Need someone who can munch some tough minutes and pass the puck.

    Will cost something in trade, but the Oilers have assets to do that now.

    If the contraction of the PHX franchise happens, then it would solve the problem immediately.

    CBJ probably takes OEL, i”d take Michalek next.

    Actually if OEL is gone I’m all over Hanzel (he’ so hot right now)

  53. steveb12344 says:

    Professor Q: steveb12344, I never said such a thing sir! Never crossed my mind he won’t sign until the discussion here – I was simply stating what I thought was miscommunication from the Oilers management to Riley Nash and the resultant trade and how it related to the quote. Didn’t realise how I could have been misconstrued before posting, sorry.

    Fair enough, but still, how does Riley Nash have anything to do with a conversation about whether or not Yak is a risk to shun the oilers and go for the big bucks back home in the KHL?

  54. OilClog says:

    Is it unrealistic to think that’s there’s a great chance this yakupov kid comes in and blows the doors of this league. After listening to him, can’t help but cheer. He could be the very best of all the super kids.

    Knock it off!! Can’t wait for all the Hemmer and Nail quotes.

  55. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy,

    Has there been talk about contraction?

  56. OilClog says:

    Woodguy: Strudwick said to Gregor (and said almost the same thing to LT) that the Oilers need to add a puck mover.

    Out of the 8 DMen the Oilers have only 3 are puck movers.Petry, J.Shultz (rookie), Whitney (health questions)

    They Oilers have no puck movers coming in behind to help when one of those 3 (or more) go down.

    Puck moving D is critical to the Oiler’s offense.They score more on the rush and less on the cycle than most NHL teams, so having the puck movers back there is the most important aspect to keeping the team competitive.

    I agree 100%

    I think Streit would be awesome.

    Gunnarsson would be good too.

    I like Tyutin, but his contract length vis vi is age is a concern.

    Bouwmeester would be good too.

    Need someone who can munch some tough minutes and pass the puck.

    Will cost something in trade, but the Oilers have assets to do that now.

    If the contraction of the PHX franchise happens, then it would solve the problem immediately.

    CBJ probably takes OEL, i”d take Michalek next.

    Actually if OEL is gone I’m all over Hanzel (he’ so hot right now)

    I couldn’t see them leaving Yandle on the board if OEL is gone.

  57. steveb12344 says:

    “No-no-no, don’t get me wrong. It’s like I’m going to show up at the camp all cocky and going to act like I’m a star. No, nothing like this is going to happen. You see, getting picked first overall was just step one. Step two is to actually make the team. I want to work hard and be on the team. I want to prove to the Oilers they made the right choice. I want to prove to my family they put all this effort into to me for a good reason. I want to prove to all of my former coaches back in Sarnia and Nizhnekamsk that they taught me well.”

    ” I want to prove I’m ready for the NHL – the best league in the world. I want to be on that level.”

    “I told the truth. It’s always been my dream to play in the NHL. This is why I came to Canada. I came here to learn how to play hockey. Then I was lucky enough to be drafted. Now I just have to make the team. I don’t even think about the money at this point. I don’t care who’s going to offer me what. Lots of people asked me: ‘What if you’re offered big contract? Would you leave?’ I thought I said everything that was needed to be said when I said ‘I want to play in the NHL’”

    NAIL YAKUPOV

  58. Professor Q says:

    OilClog,

    That made me giggle, I like puns.

  59. Woodguy says:

    Professor Q:
    Woodguy,

    Has there been talk about contraction?

    Stauffer brought it up the other day.

    First and only time I’ve heard of it.

  60. Woodguy says:

    OilClog: I couldn’t see them leaving Yandle on the board if OEL is gone.

    I like Yandle, but I like Hanzel and Michahlek more.

  61. speeds says:

    Woodguy: I like Yandle, but I like Hanzel and Michahlek more.

    Not that I expect PHX to end up with a dispersal draft, or even that they would necessarily go reverse standings without some sort of lottery, but assuming they did and CLB took OEL, I don’t see how you could take Michalek over Hanzal. Hanzal is almost 1 mil cheaper on the cap, signed for 5 years vs. 3 for Michalek, and 4 years younger.

    I could also see the argument for Gormley ahead of Michalek. Already signed to his ELC at a 1.315 cap hit, 3 years left, 7 until UFA.

  62. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    wheatnoil:
    Any chance guys like Yakupov or Murray (who expect to play in the NHL next year) want to stall a bit to see if the new CBA increases the rookie maximum ?

    That’s a really interesting twist… but I would expect time isn’t on their side on that one. Assuming they want to play this year they’ll have to sign and it sure looks like a new CBA is going to take some time… it might end up being a fool’s gamble.

    tangentially, I wonder if contracts signed experience some kind of retroactive adjustment following the new CBA? if a clause or something is removed or added to the new CBA and therefore either no longer applies, or suddenly applies, what happens to prior contracts? are they updated, or grandfathered?

    Professor Q:
    Woodguy,

    Has there been talk about contraction?

    how far apart are they? is Dark Phoenix set to rise again?

    Woodguy:

    If the contraction of the PHX franchise happens, then it would solve the problem immediately.

    CBJ probably takes OEL, i”d take Michalek next.

    Actually if OEL is gone I’m all over Hanzel (he’ so hot right now)

    Woodguy: I like Yandle, but I like Hanzel and Michahlek more.

    if the assumption is phx is going to blow up… why are we assuming OEL is out of reach? do the CBJs have some inside track?

    I like all those other guys too… but why not go for the brass ring?

  63. Woodguy says:

    speeds: Not that I expect PHX to end up with a dispersal draft, or even that they would necessarily go reverse standings without some sort of lottery, but assuming they did and CLB took OEL, I don’t see how you could take Michalek over Hanzal.Hanzal is almost 1 mil cheaper on the cap, signed for 5 years vs. 3 for Michalek, and 4 years younger.

    I could also see the argument for Gormley ahead of Michalek.Already signed to his ELC at a 1.315 cap hit, 3 years left, 7 until UFA.

    Good point about Gormley.

    I did say above I’d take Hanzel over Michalek.

  64. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: That’s a really interesting twist… but I would expect time isn’t on their side on that one. Assuming they want to play this year they’ll have to sign and it sure looks like a new CBA is going to take some time… it might end up being a fool’s gamble.

    tangentially, I wonder if contracts signed experience some kind of retroactive adjustment following the new CBA? if a clause or something is removed or added to the new CBA and therefore either no longer applies, or suddenly applies, what happens to prior contracts? are they updated, or grandfathered?

    how far apart are they? is Dark Phoenix set to rise again?

    if the assumption is phx is going to blow up… why are we assuming OEL is out of reach? do the CBJs have some inside track?

    I like all those other guys too… but why not go for the brass ring?

    I’m assuming draft order from this year. Oilers won the lottery, but CBJ was 1st in draft order for every other round.

  65. nathan says:

    in the case of a lockout would he be free to sign on in a pro league. assume he would find somewhere that is willing to include an exit when lockout is over. do not thnk he will spend lockout in sarnia. wonder if that discusson is holding the elc

  66. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I’m assuming draft order from this year. Oilers won the lottery, but CBJ was 1st in draft order for every other round.

    Hadn’t even considered that… I just assumed they’d be on the open market. makes more sense to draft them out… of course that kind of takes away the will of the player, no?

    At any rate, how would you rank the chances for the following possibilities:

    1) Phx lumbers along with ??? for several more years
    2) Phx moves somewhere else
    3) Phx explodes and distributes talent

    (if 3 would you expect the NHL to expand by one team afresh or maintain the new status quo of 29?)

  67. gogliano says:

    Is there anyone worth reading on the Phoenix saga? I haven’t been following it much.

    I doubt they reflect the draft order/reverse standings. Best case scenario is probably a weighted system like the draft after the work stoppage (where we’d get 29 balls as compared to the Canucks’ 1 ball). I can’t see enough teams being on board with a draft type order, especially given the Oilers’ 3 straight #1 picks.

  68. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    nathan:
    in the case of a lockout would he be free tosign on in a pro league. assume he would find somewhere that is willing to include an exit when lockout is over. do not thnk he will spend lockout in sarnia. wonder if that discusson is holding the elc

    I’m no contract expert. but on draft day, Bob McKenzie mentioned if he signs and there is a lockout, he would be free to leave, but obliged to return when the NHL does:

    http://watch.tsn.ca/draftcentre-2012/clip707293#clip707293

  69. speeds says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: That’s a really interesting twist… but I would expect time isn’t on their side on that one. Assuming they want to play this year they’ll have to sign and it sure looks like a new CBA is going to take some time… it might end up being a fool’s gamble.

    tangentially, I wonder if contracts signed experience some kind of retroactive adjustment following the new CBA? if a clause or something is removed or added to the new CBA and therefore either no longer applies, or suddenly applies, what happens to prior contracts? are they updated, or grandfathered?

    They can do whatever they choose, but last time the rollback applied to 2004 (and earlier) drafted players, but they weren’t governed by the new ELC rules. So a guy like Malkin, when he signed his ELC, was still eligible for 50%* of his rookie cap to come via signing bonus, unlike Crosby who’s signing bonus was limited to 10%.

    * edit – I thought it was 50% in the old CBA, but I don’t have a copy of it and could be mistaken.

    I looked up Malkin at capgeek: http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=475

    and while his signing bonuses were much higher than the current 10%, it wasn’t 50% either.

  70. speeds says:

    And I guess here’s the answer:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366

    30% for 2004 and earlier players. I’m not sure if that’s what it was in the old CBA, or if those were the transition rules after the 2005 CBA went into effect

  71. Cactus says:

    Re; Phoenix contraction:

    As much as it’s an interesting idea from Stauffer, there’s simply no way that this happens. There are several markets that would be interested in an NHL team should one become available. I count: Quebec City, Seattle, Hamilton, Markham, Las Vegas as reasonable possibilities, and there are probably more than that if we were to add long shots. I have a hard time believe that at least one of these places either couldn’t throw something together in the interim (Hamilton has an old, but working arena – Quebec City as well, but less so). The other possibility is that the NHL requires a new owner to keep the team in Phoenix for a year (would be a disaster, but probably cleaner than contraction).

    The most likely event is still that Phoenix somehow survives. Beyond that, some kind of relocation will occur. The team will not be contracted while there is so much demand out there.

  72. Woodguy says:

    Two articles on contracting the Phoenix franchise:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-nuclear-option-phoenix-coyotes-dispersal-draft-rather-164252710–nhl.html

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/glendale-petitions-threaten-to-torpedo-coyotes-sale/article4393492/

    The reason they are talking contraction is that the NHL can make more money by expansion fees ($200MM) than relocation ($60MM)

    Makes sense as the league owns the team and contraction then expansion maximizes revenues.

  73. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy,

    Intriguingly sly bureaucracy.

  74. bendelson says:

    bookje,

    It’s likely been said many times by many artists over the years…

    Kurt Cobain:
    “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they are not after you”.
    Territorial Pissings, 1991.

  75. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    speeds,

    Thanks… so, then, if the numbers can get rolled back anyway… why bother waiting for the new CBA? they are just going to be adjusted to meet the new standards, no?

    Doesn’t that wash that theory out?

    Woodguy:
    Two articles on contracting the Phoenix franchise:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-nuclear-option-phoenix-coyotes-dispersal-draft-rather-164252710–nhl.html

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/glendale-petitions-threaten-to-torpedo-coyotes-sale/article4393492/

    The reason they are talking contraction is that the NHL can make more money by expansion fees ($200MM) than relocation ($60MM)

    Makes sense as the league owns the team and contraction then expansion maximizes revenues.

    tricky bastards!!! Living in Toronto, I’ve seen these markham and hamilton folks hustle for a team for years… when there is a market, a willing ownership group and a city on board… and a team that’s ripe for the picking… it seems like a dickish move to make it so hard and so expensive…

    though I guess that is the point. A kind of Burkean aversion to change.

  76. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think Markham gets a team when the rink is built.

    I”ve read more than one person throw out $500MM as an expansion fee with $200MM of that going to the Leafs for market infringement.

    Funny thing is that is still probably a good investment.

  77. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think Markham gets a team when the rink is built.

    I”ve read more than one person throw out $500MM as an expansion fee with $200MM of that going to the Leafs for market infringement.

    Funny thing is that is still probably a good investment.

    You’re right that it’s not built yet, but it’s still an extraordinary investment that they’ve made to undertake the project:

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1169089–markham-council-approves-massive-arena

    that’s a lot of capital for a city to invest on the “chance” that you might get a team in the some indeterminate future. Same went for Winnipeg.

    It seems a good way to cripple a vibrant civic economy: invest all your money in a giant venture that will give you the right to sit at the table in which you maybe have a shot at a team that will turn-around your investment…

    if you lose… you lose big. I have no idea what Markham will do with a giant arena with no NHL team… concerts, circuses, etc are sure to happen in the city for the most part not the suburbs.

    just out of curiosity, what makes you so sure they get a team when the arena is done?

    ps. the leafs don’t need any more money, bastards run this town.

  78. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    just out of curiosity, what makes you so sure they get a team when the arena is done?

    Its a gate driven league, and that teams sells out a 20,000 seat building from day 1.

    Toronto is twice the hockey market that NY is (maybe more) and NY has NYR, NDJ, NYI all within a 30 minute drive of each other (if the tunnels are moving traffic well)

    Add to that a very lucrative TV market and its a slam dunk.

    Bettman is a very smart person.

    No way he turns down the ability to get a $500MM expansion fee for the owners, especially given they have been subsidizing PHX, DAL and NDJ for a while.

  79. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy,

    I guess my sense of Bettman spite toward canada is stronger than my sense that Bettman is a smart person (I should correct my perceptions).

    could those arguments be made for Hamilton as well… they’ve been shunned for a long time

  80. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Woodguy,

    I guess my sense of Bettman spite toward canada is stronger than my sense that Bettman is a smart person (I should correct my perceptions).

    could those arguments be made for Hamilton as well… they’ve been shunned for a long time

    Bettman is too smart to spite.

    Hamilton’s building was never good enough.

    Balsillie went about it the exact wrong way. Don’t fuck with the Bettman.

    Bettman is in most US markets that he wants to be in (except Seattle)

    Southern Ontario will get a 2nd team within 5 years.

    I pray to the hockey gods that they win the cup before the Leafs.

    edit: Re: Bettman is smart comment. Its the Canadian teams revenues and exchange rate which are driving the cap higher which makes people like Ed Snider, Jeremy Jacobs, and organizations like MSG, and whoever owns TOR this week very happy.

    The rich teams want to spend and the Canadian revenues have pushed the cap further than they dreamed.

    Another Southern ONT franchise is more fuel for that fire.

    And the owners would cash a pretty sweet expansion cheque in the process

  81. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy,

    That clears things up a bit. I should probably dig a little deeper before letting assumptions mold into well-worn beliefs.

    It’s funny to think of the powerhouse of Canadian revenues after growing watching teams flee canada and so much hair being pulled about bleeding money in canadian markets (exchange rates, taxes, tv deals etc)

    ps. if Markham or Hamilton ever wins a cup I will only be able to celebrate if it is on the back of Toronto suffering.

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