BORN AGAIN, IN ANOTHER TIME (SIGNED! 7yr/$6M)

I’m thinking we’ll look back on these days as the quiet moments when options were plentiful and ideas fell like rain. In a few short days, the Edmonton Oilers will be shutting out options for the rest of the decade. Scary things.

If I ventured in the slipstream
Between the viaducts of your dreams
Where immobile steel rims crack
And the ditch in the back roads stop
Could you find me
Would you kiss-a my eyes
Lay me down, In silence easy
To be born again
To be born again
To be born again
In another world
In another world
In another time

-Van Morrison

Most have their own idea about the day the music died for the Edmonton Oilers, my own is October 4, 1991. I don’t think the exact day or time matters, but it is important to remember that the change in weather was a stunning temperature drop followed by a long, long winter. The time between Messier’s trade and Marchant’s parting of the waves was hopeless, the most difficult in the team’s history until that Pronger summer.

No matter how long we suffer through the winter, springtime brings new life, hope and the warmth of the sun. That’s the period we’re entering now–maybe the team as it stands today is late February, early March with more hope than evidence of a better day.

The Edmonton Oilers have to get it right. The Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle contracts are the first contracts that really matter since the Pronger deal and signing. Spending too much on one or another could mean the club lacks options at the other end of the period where this young cluster signs long term. A misstep now could mean one or even two fewer effective NHL players on the other side of spring.

It is vital that Steve Tambellini, Kevin Lowe and Craig MacTavish negotiate the future with care. There appears to be a window of opportunity here before the league goes dark and other teams are taking advantage of it; Edmonton wants in on the fun and perhaps this is the best time to begin the difficult work of finding a way to optimize the roster under the salary cap.

Early returns are mixed: Oilers appear to be negotiating with Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle separately, and that is a good sign. Contracts that match but use Hall’s ‘outer marker’ deal (we’ve discussed this before) as the template for Eberle would be a very poor start (dual 7-year, $44M deals would represent paying ‘at the high end’ for Eberle from the Oilers pov). Getting both signed to long term, reasonable deals might allow the club to avoid cap decisions that impacted teams like the Blackhawks in a negative manner.

I’ve said before on this blog there’s almost no way to avoid low level success with these kind of draft riches. Once Edmonton makes the playoffs this young team should romp into the second season for 7 years or more. What they do in the playoffs, how many good players they have deep into spring and the warmth of the summer, will be impacted by the numbers on the Hall and Eberle contacts.

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119 Responses to "BORN AGAIN, IN ANOTHER TIME (SIGNED! 7yr/$6M)"

  1. D says:

    Love this article LT. The toughest decisions for any business to make (and this applies to people in general) are the ones related to closing doors and shutting out options.

  2. Chris Hext---formerly EasyOil--- says:

    You’re making me nervous, LT….

  3. mumbai max says:

    How do you sell Eberles agent on his contract being lower, based on early results?
    He may not agree with you regression argument !
    I suspect we will see matching contracts 6m x 7y would be fine, plus or minus.

  4. Moosemess says:

    This is one area where you’d certainly hope and expect Katz would be directly involved.

    Based on the Horcoff contract alone, Kevin Lowe should probably stifle most of his opinions on this.

  5. JohnnyRocket says:

    I love the Van Morrison posts. Astral Weeks and Moondance might be the best back to back records ever released. Up there with Rubber Soul/Revolver and Highway 61 Revisited/Blonde on Blonde.
    I feel that these signings will be the parting of the curtains at the end of the Wizard of Oz. Either we will have our stubborn faith confirmed, or a realization that there always was a pretender making the calls.

  6. jfry says:

    Why sign them to 7 years instead of the two year samwise deal. That seems much more prudent given the uncertainty.

    I hate watching moderate businessmen play poker with my ticket and beer money. Negotiating conditions are only going to improve in the next cba. Using Philly as a sign to sign now is ridiculous. They sign more contracts every year than half the league — the most ea sports franchise in the league.

    Why not buy ufa years two summers from now when we know if hall can play a full season and if eberle can crack 60 again. I just don’t get it and would never run my company like this — signing longterm with such uncertainty, especially if my track record was finishing dead last every year.

  7. M Parkatti says:

    JohnnyRocket,

    Good choices for back to backs, but I’d take any two of Beggars Banquet / Let it Bleed / Sticky Fingers / Exile on Main Street . That’s the 1970′s Habs of rock album lineages.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Man, those are great album clusters. May I add one more? And promise me you will listen to all if they are not in your current library:

    1. Allman Brothers Idlewild South (1970)
    2. Allman Brothers Live at the Fillmore East (1970)
    3. Allman Brothers Eat A Peach (1972)
    4. Allman Brothers Brothers and Sisters (1973)

  9. Moosemess says:

    Good call Parkatti. It may be a bit populist for some tastes, but these are some nice clusters as well.

    Pink Floyd
    Dark Side of the Moon
    Animals
    Wish You Were Here
    The Wall

    Led Zeppelin
    II
    III
    IV
    Houses of the Holy
    Physical Graffitti

  10. JohnnyRocket says:

    Wow, those are all great clusters. That run by the Stones might be the longest/most consistent. I forgot about the Doobie Brothers. They look more impressive back to back like that. How about The River, Nebraska, and Born in the U.S.A.?

  11. mattwatt says:

    Call me a front runner, but I will still take:

    Revolver
    Sgt. Peppers
    Magical Mystery Tour
    The Beatles (White Album)

    As the cluster of albums I’d pick.

    LT is right, this is a scary time for the franchise. Especially for what the Oilers think they are getting, which is:
    – All of the kid’s prime years (they are getting some of them, but not all)
    – Heightened levels of production (kids can perform, but are not a sure thing yet)
    – Good deals (Tavares contract is looking to be a bit better than what the kids will be getting).

    Other issue is that these contracts never are that great of a deal. Players can outperform contracts like this, but the likelyhood to no do so is greater. And as LT stated, if they take too much of the pie, what does that leave for Petry, Smid, etc..

    A storm is a brewing in the distance. What comes from it remains to be seen.

  12. mattwatt says:

    JohnnyRocket: Wow, those are all great clusters. That run by the Stones might be the longest/most consistent. I forgot about the Doobie Brothers. They look more impressive back to back like that. How about The River, Nebraska, and Born in the U.S.A.?

    Great, great cluster if you ask me. I would even add Darkness on the Edge of Town and Born to Run to that group. High water mark for the Boss.

  13. Lowetide says:

    If we’re going to do this, I must insist on a Neil Young section:

    1. On the Beach
    2. Tonight’s The Night
    3. Zuma
    4. American Stars and Bars
    5. Comes a time
    6. Rust Never Sleeps
    7. Live Rust

  14. Wolfie says:

    Signing 2 year deals with either Hall or Eberle runs the risk of one or both of them going supernova. That’s something I wouldn’t bet against given their ages and the talent that is surrounding them.

    The Oilers have gone the raze and rebuild way. You can’t half-ass it now. Lock them in long-term because these are the horses you’ve chosen to go with.

    Philadelphia keep coming up as a team that gives out big contracts like candy. Yet they keep finding ways out of undesireable deals while still getting value. Carter and Richards were both traded for good value and I’m sure if both Hall and Eberle don’t quite become what you want them to be someone will take them off our hands a decent package.

    Signing big contracts may seem to limit flexibility but Philly has shown that you can be creative and if you’re willing to take a little bit of a risk you can stay competitive while still trading your core away.

  15. Wolfie says:

    For me it will always be Zeppelin but all those mentioned above are very worthy.

  16. uni says:

    Moosemess,

    Zeppelin has some good stuff, but I’ve found in very difficult to listen to any of their stuff and enjoy it due to the fact that they are such gigantic pricks and douches.

  17. Moosemess says:

    Fair enough UNI, but if I were going to go that route (i.e. struggle to separate the artist from their art), I’d never enjoy a Clint Eastwood movie, a Norman Mailer novel or a Matthew Good album, and I’d be the poorer for those choices.

  18. uni says:

    Moosemess,

    The difference is those other references you made didn’t blatantly rip-off the material of others and pass it off as their own without reference or acknowledgement of the sources.

    Most of Zeppelin’s most famous music, including the riff from Stairway to Heaven was stolen from other obscure artists. Zeppelin has steadfastly refused to even acknowledge the debt they owe these artists years later. Kinda like Disney claiming that Simba and the Lion King was original and theirs and that Kimba the White Lion doesn’t exist.

  19. Truth Movement says:

    Lowetide: If we’re going to do this, I must insist on a Neil Young section:1. On the Beach2. Tonight’s The Night3. Zuma4. American Stars and Bars5. Comes a time6. Rust Never Sleeps7. Live Rust

    I’d add Time Fades Away to the top of that list. Only available on vinyl, but fantastic if you can find it. Not the biggest Harvest fan though.

    How’s this for a run?
    Steely Dan:
    Can’t Buy A Thrill
    Countdown To Ecstasy
    Pretzel Logic
    Katy Lied
    The Royal Scam
    Aja

    And maybe not quite as deep, but an essential pairing of albums:
    The Band:
    Music From Big Pink
    The Band

  20. Moosemess says:

    Well first off, Zeppelin did finally give Wille Dixon a cash settlement and credit in a plagiarism lawsuit for You Need Love/Whole Lotta Love

    Secondly, have you listened to the two songs together? To say Zeppelin reinvented this traditional blues song is a bit like saying Picasso reinvented abstract art. Like the Stones and Cream, I think most of the traditional bluesmen were happy with the extra attention/gigs that those British Invasion bands brought them. Their record companies ripped them off way worse than their fellow musicians.

    Finally, as a bit of a musical dabbler myself, I’m of the opinion that there’s only 12 notes and every song has been pretty much written already. The Stones ripped off KD Lang. The Chili Peppers ripped of Tom Petty. This staff happens all the time and it’s typically the musical press and public that make a bigger stink of it than the artists themselves. If we’re going to say Zep ripped off bluesmen, then we should probably be complaining that U2 ripped off the Clash, and Cold Play is now copping U2 licks. World keeps spinning?

    All that said, yes Jimmy Page is a greedy twat.

  21. Thinker says:

    Salary template (total =75 mil)
    6 6 6
    5 5 5
    3 3 3
    1 1 1

    6 6
    4 4
    2 2

    4
    2

    This should represent the maximum dollar figure the oilers should spend on a player filling each position on the depth chart. Hopefully value contracts can be found throughout the lineup, especially on the second and third lines, as well as the second and third pairings, and in net. Right now the oilers are nowhere close to fitting this template, but this is how I hope they structure the future.

  22. Lowetide says:

    Moosemess: I hear ya, and do love my Zep, but then there’s that boor bastard who wrote Dazed and confused. Zep did a lot of bizarre ‘borrowing’ without credit. Which is commonplace now, but back in the day it cost George Harrison a tidy sum and some cred.

  23. Lowetide says:

    If they’d recorded the wild, the innocent and the e street shuffle even half well you could go from there right through without a hitch.

  24. Derek says:

    https://twitter.com/NHL_Oilers/status/238324675128729600

    GM Steve Tambellini announces the #Oilers have agreed to terms with forward Taylor Hall on a new seven-year contract extension.

    I’m nervous.

  25. uni says:

    Moosemess,

    I hear what you’re saying Mosses, but saying Zeppelin finally gave recognition for Whole Lotta Love doesn’t carry much water if they had to be sued into doing so.

    Also there are a lot of songs and artists that didn’t sue, and were more blatantly ripped off. Dazed and Confused is a good example as LT mentioned. I don’t think any of those slighted artists were grateful for anything from Zeppelin as they were never credited or gained anything. What’s worse is many of them just wanted a “thank you” from Mr. Page.

  26. matmik says:

    and there it is:

    Edmonton Oilers ‏@NHL_Oilers

    GM Steve Tambellini announces the #Oilers have agreed to terms with forward Taylor Hall on a new seven-year contract extension

  27. sliderule says:

    They have to go all in with Hall and Eberle.We have suffered thru all this and we have to assume that they can keep delivering the goods.If we don’t buy some ufa years I think we will regret it

    Job two would be tell Habi the rebuild is over.He has delivered the goods for us but it’s time for him to be a decent backup so he can sucker some team into a couple more years.He did it in Chicago so hope springs eternal.

  28. OilLeak says:

    6 million x 7 years according to mackenzie. Not too bad at all.

  29. Truth Movement says:

    6 mil per

  30. Lowetide says:

    If this is true, then the Oilers did well imo. Very well.

  31. Chunklets says:

    Hall for 7 yrs @ $6M per? Today is a good day.

  32. Traktor says:

    If you factor in where the salary cap is right now Hall’s deal is peanuts. Only 500k more than Horcoff and Horc signed his deal when the cap was around 40M. Really puts it in perspective how bad Horcoff’s deal was when he signed. Horcoff was close to 15% of the cap.. Hall is only around 8% of the cap.

    Hopefully Eberle gets locked up for around the same. I’m expecting Smid to take a discount.. around 3M-3.5M

  33. uni says:

    Damn, was hoping for 10 years for 6 million per. Can’t complain though. Now we play the waiting game once more vis a vis Eberle.

  34. Lowetide says:

    I’m going to have a beer, and then another one!

  35. Moosemess says:

    Rappers are the worst. They actually sample the music they’re stealing and try to pass it off as their own.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s0hEi8zhmg

    Check out his laughable explanation 1:50 in.

    To be clear, I’m not defending Zeppelin when they’ve lifted an entire composition and denied the original composer credit. But I’ve seen people nitpick their music, identifying a Robert Johnson lyric here or a Howlin Wolf lick there as evidence of plagiarism. Guitarists steal licks! It’s what they do. Particularly blues musicians where the form is traditional and well established. Stevie Ray Vaughn was basically an amalgam of Freddie King and Albert King and his catalogue is rife with verbatim licks of other blues and jazz guitarists.

    Like Zeppelin though, no one before or since played those riffs like SRV did, and particularly with Zeppelin, no one had been as innovative in the recording process as Jimmy Page.

    Honestly, arguing that copping riffs is plagiarism is a bit like saying every painting featuring flowers in a pond is ripping off Monet. Yes, the subject matter may be the same, but the execution is wholly different between artists and in Zep’s case, the execution was a massive leap forward in the playing and recording of electric blues.

    From Elvis Presley to Justin Bieber, there is a long and possibly unseemly tradition of synthesizing black musical influences and repackaging it for white consumers. Zeppelin didn’t start this trend, and it will continue long after their demise.

  36. OilLeak says:

    I’m pretty sure Doug McLachlan called the 6 million over 7 years in an earlier thread, good call Doug.

  37. Moosemess says:

    Not a fan of the contract term, but a huge fan of the player, so it works for me. lol

  38. bookje says:

    Lowetide:
    I’m going to have a beer, and then another one!

    Your special collector’s edition cadmium plated Steve Tambellini Fan Club pin is in the mail.

  39. bookje says:

    Does this kick in this year or at the end of this year. I should know this and/or be able to look it up, but I am inherently lazy.

  40. OilLeak says:

    The Hall contract is amazing, the line in the sand for future contracts has been drawn. Eberle’s contract will be something similar if signed this year and Petry and Smid will have to sign a reasonable contract going forward unless they become the best tandem in the league. RNH and Yak will be a different story, but perhaps the new CBA will keep them affordable a s well.

    Good times, now about that other defenseman we need…

  41. OilLeak says:

    bookje,

    When Hall’s current contract expires, which is next season if there is a next season.

  42. bookje says:

    Ok, so what would make you happy, satisfied or sad as an amount for a 7 year deal for Eberle?

  43. Derek says:

    The best player on the team locked up through his prime at 6 million per season.

    Not bad Steve.

  44. Moosemess says:

    How will the young man celebrate I wonder?

    Personally I would opt for a relaxing game of golf following by fresh sushi served on a coterie of comely lasses washed down with a robust single malt.

  45. Derek says:

    Bookie: 5.5 to 5.75?

    I think we all know who drives the bus that is the Oilers offense, but how do you explain to Eberles agent that the guy with the bigger counting numbers deserves less than the guy who just got 6 million?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave Eberle fewer years than Hall to keep his cap hit lower.

  46. bookje says:

    Derek,

    Yep, I agree, something like 6 years at $5.75 would bring the cost in under Hall while not offending anyone (and while making us all pretty happy I would think).

  47. "Steve Smith" says:

    Moosemess:
    How will the young man celebrate I wonder?

    I fear it might be by inviting some of his largest friends to drive him head-first into the boards.

  48. russ99 says:

    Big fan of this signing, especially if there’s savings after the work-stoppage by a salary rollback.

    The Oilers signed the key player of this team for the next 7 years.

    Eberle and RNH will likely have to take less when it comes time to sign their deals. I’d be OK with a lesser term for Eberle too.

  49. Moosemess says:

    “Steve Smith”: I fear it might be by inviting some of his largest friends to drive him head-first into the boards.

    “The boards” is one sexual euphemism I’m unfamiliar with.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_g0esNGpag

  50. ashley says:

    Fair deal. I like the term. Inflation works in the favour of the team providing greater value as the contract gets older…CBA changes pending.

    Why we didn’t do something longer term with Petry is mysterious. Perhaps the Oilers seem some uncertainty in his game?

  51. nathan says:

    “Big fan of this signing, especially if there’s savings after the work-stoppage by a salary rollback.”

    russ99,

    Would not be surprised if we seem some bonus dollars in that AAV to protect part of it from rollback.

  52. Lowetide says:

    bookje:
    Ok, so what would make you happy, satisfied or sad as an amount for a 7 year deal for Eberle?

    $33M would make me happy but I think it’ll be $38.5M

  53. Mr. K says:

    What happens if the entire season is locked out, does that burn a year off all the players’ current contracts or would, in Hall’s case, the last year of the ELC be carried over?

    I can’t remember what happened for the last lockout.

  54. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Nice, Very Nice. Finally some resmeblence of commitment to winning games. O’l Steve O will actually have to start looking for a proper supporting cast now (i.e. Start doing his job). Will he advance to ST V3.1 after the Eberle contract? I’ve lost track.

  55. LMHF#1 says:

    Lowetide: $33M would make me happy but I think it’ll be $38.5M

    Why would Eberle take a cent less? I still don’t understand the utter dismissal of the fact that Eberle has been, and could in the long term be, the best player of the group.

  56. bookje says:

    Mr. K:

    I can’t remember what happened for the last lockout.

    The players and owners could not agree a contract and there was no hockey and we were all sad and angry.

  57. bookje says:

    LMHF#1: Why would Eberle take a cent less? I still don’t understand the utter dismissal of the fact that Eberle has been, and could in the long term be, the best player of the group.

    Because when he was Halls age, he was still playing against kids. However, I agree that it will and should be close.

  58. LMHF#1 says:

    bookje: Because when he was Halls age, he was still playing against kids.However, I agree that it will and should be close.

    I understand the age question, but the development process looks fairly different with these two, doesn’t it?

  59. "Steve Smith" says:

    Mr. K:
    What happens if the entire season is locked out, does that burn a year off all the players’ current contracts or would, in Hall’s case, the last year of the ELC be carried over?

    That would be determined under the CBA, which expires September 15. Accordingly, the answer to your question would be determined as part of the negotiations for the next CBA.

    I’m not sure what happened last time.

  60. mattwatt says:

    Lowetide: $33M would make me happy but I think it’ll be $38.5M

    If I am Oilers management, I am hesistant to go over $35 for Eberle. If price is higher, just wait a year. I know they want to present it as a package deal, but what you want to do is not always best.

    As Jimmy Kimmel was just recently quoted as saying (and I am paraphrasing) “sometimes you just have to wait for it all to work out.” Did well for him.

  61. Truth says:

    In my opinion, Hall = Tavares and Eberle = Skinner. Tavares would get at least that contract Hall got today if he was in need of a new contract right now and I would not be surprised if Eberle’s contract is pretty close to being the same as Skinners.

  62. hunter1909 says:

    Tambellini finally shines. Hall signs a great cap friendly contract which draws the line in the sand.

    Of course Yaks might scores 60 goals; then all hell breaks loose.

  63. hunter1909 says:

    I hope Eberle gets the exact same offer as Hall.

  64. voxwah says:

    hunter1909:
    Tambellini finally shines. Hall signs a great cap friendly contract which draws the line in the sand.

    Of course Yaks might scores 60 goals; then all hell breaks loose.

    Yak scoring 60 is totally awesome problem to have to deal with. Sign me up.

  65. DeadmanWaking says:

    Interesting development to say the least.

    voxwah: Yak scoring 60 is totally awesome problem to have to deal with. Sign me up.

    Yeah, Hall is either on the same line or out there against mid-level opponents. Yak establishing himself in his rookie season at the pinnacle of the qual-comp pyramid would trigger a trickle-down effect that actually works. On a side note, I’ve always been curious about where money goes after it arrives in off-shore tax havens. Once there, does it trickle or congeal? Moral of the story: never believe in fairy tales told by people with numbered Swiss bank accounts.

  66. Doug McLachlan says:

    OilLeak: I’m pretty sure Doug McLachlan called the 6 million over 7 years in an earlier thread, good call Doug.

    I will happily take that bow. Should work out good for both barring injury (which given Hall’s style is always going to be a risk).

  67. jp says:

    bookje:
    Ok, so what would make you happy, satisfied or sad as an amount for a 7 year deal for Eberle?

    I’d be satisfied with anything less than what Hall got. I have a hard time believing after the season Ebs had (and the agent he has) that he’d accept fully that Hall is and will be the better player (flip side is that he’d probably also have to agree that he can’t repeat last season’s numbers). Not sure I see that happening.

    May be Eberle and the others do see what we see and feel like Hall really is the team leader and a better player, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Eberle’s value may not get higher than it is right now, so if he signs for 7 X 5.5 or 7 X 5.75 I’d be pretty happy.

  68. jfry says:

    love this blog. hallsy signs and half hte comments are about the boss and page.

    for you guys out there that liked old sabbath and led zepplin, there’s a Swedish band that’s not bad called Graveyard. worth a listen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGBa8dVm6k

  69. jfry says:

    a calgary friend just sent me this airbourne link and thought it was almost apropos for this thread:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uANVBPVaf-g

  70. jonrmcleod says:

    Technical question: I am trying to use iftt.com to send a notification to my mobile phone whenever lowetide.ca adds a new post. Doing this with a few other blogs, I have only been successful with those having a Feedburner feed. It doesn’t appear that Lowetide is on Feedburner. Has anyone else done this?

  71. Moosemess says:

    What if Hall and Eberle are neither better or worse than each other, but can in fact make similarly important contributions to the team by utilizing their own unique approaches?

    One could make the argument that Hall and Ebs are very similar to Messier and Kurri respectively, although I do think Hall has a bit of Glenn Anderson mojo going as well with the gumby/fearlessness thang.

    Here are the career stats for those two Hall of Famers.

    Messier 1756 GP 694 G 1193 A 1887 Pts 1.07 pts/game
    Kurri 1251 GP 601 G 797 A 1398 Pts 1.11 pts/game

    Messier certainly had the more high profile career of the two, but Kurri’s points production cannot be ignored. Which is worth more?

    The irony of the NHL is that players are compensated so much on the basis of their counting numbers during the regular season when the playoffs are where the rubber really hits the road.

    RNH/Eberle could become very similar to Gretzky/Kurri over time. That magical playmaker/sniper combo producing points at a record pace. Hall and Yakupov on the other hand could be more similar to Messier and Anderson. Two passion filled racehorses that you can ride to a Cup when the going gets really tough.

    So, who should earn what? Tough tough question.

    I know this, half the fun will be watching history repeating itself with some new wrinkles.

  72. jake70 says:

    If Hall learns to score more on his dashes and darts to the net and on break-aways, that contract will definitely look like peanuts.

  73. Chris Hext---formerly EasyOil--- says:

    Late to the party, but I’d like to state a couple of things:

    1) For those calling Led Zeppelin a bunch of douches/twats. I can’t speak for all members of the band, but I was in school with Robert Plant’s son. I never met Plant Snr., at least not that I can remember, but by all accounts from others he was a really nice guy, and very modest. He was regularly seen in pubs around my hometown, Bath, and one of my friends even spent an entire night with him drinking – and he never once mentioned the Zep. My friend didn’t even know he was Robert Plant until after the night was over! So, yeah they may be douchey as musicians (I love their music so don’t really care, not gonna close myself off to a band or a song because of who they are), but from all people I know who know them, at least Plant is a good guy.

    2) YAAAAAAAAAAY for Taylor Hall!!

    That is all.

  74. cabbiesmacker says:

    I would be extremely surprised if Eberle signed for one cent less than Hall did. Nor should he. The term might vary but it’ll be a large smack in the face if the offered $$ are less. This management team couldn’t actually be that stupid could they?

    I’ll be looking forward to next offseason and watching RNH signing for $7M per for seven years after he puts up 80.

  75. ashley says:

    Eberle has the DIck for his agent, so I suspect he is up to his usual shenanigans, otherwise these deals would have been signed simultaneously and would have been nearly identical.

    If I was a bettor, I would say they are asking for a lot more than Hall’s contract, and Tambellini got this out there to draw the line and put some pressure on them to lower their demands.

  76. Ducey says:

    It doesn’t appear that Lowetide is on Feedburner. Has anyone else done this?

    Ask Terry Jones. If you have ever seen him he is on … oh sorry, thats FeedBAG.

  77. Moosemess says:

    jfry:
    a calgary friend just sent me this airbourne link and thought it was almost apropos for this thread:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uANVBPVaf-g

    Bon Scott’s bastard children?

  78. jonrmcleod says:

    Ducey,

    Yeah, I’m probably not going to get any helpful advice. :)

  79. cabbiesmacker says:

    Chris Hext—formerly EasyOil—:

    1) For those calling Led Zeppelin a bunch of douches/twats.

    Chris? Those calling Led Zepp, a band that influenced so many others and really, pioneered the “heavier” rock and roll sound, are the real db’s. Freeking sacrilege when you consider some of the other artists revered in these parts lately.

    The ripoff comments are particularly hilarious and the author of the post that declared every song had already been written many years ago was spot on.

    Now I think I’ll go crank some Tool….total and blatant ripoff of Rush in every way possible.

  80. Moosemess says:

    The truly impressive thing about Zeppelin is how their influence continues. They’ve always been a favorite band among musicians and that seems to carry on through the generations.

    My two teenage sons are in a band. Their primary influences are a bunch of new bands I’ve never heard of, but also front and center in the melting pot is Led Zep and Black Sabbath.

    Apparently, even in the age of digital piracy, Zeppelin’s back catalogue continues to sell and sell and sell….

  81. striatic says:

    agree with Hunter.

    sign Ebs to the same deal.

    its funny, but i think if the oilers get Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov signed for 24m a year, that’s a sweet deal for a young core.

    pending Yakupov’s performance of course.

  82. PhrankLee says:

    How’s this for an album cluster:

    Little Feat:
    Little Feat 1971
    Salin Shoes 1972
    Dixie Chicken 1973
    Feats Don’t Fail Me Now 1974

    If Kevin Lowe can keep his nose out of the mix I think ST may have a chance here.

  83. PhrankLee says:

    Lowetide,

    How’s this for an album cluster:

    Little Feat:
    Little Feat 1971
    Salin Shoes 1972
    Dixie Chicken 1973
    Feats Don’t Fail Me Now 1974

  84. godot10 says:

    uni:
    Moosemess,

    Zeppelin has some good stuff, but I’ve found in very difficult to listen to any of their stuff and enjoy it due to the fact that they are such gigantic pricks and douches.

    That plus they are basically a cover band, though a very good and business-savvy one, as most of their stuff is just reworked stuff from little known but sensational southern black bluesmen.

    Originality is not Jimmy Page’s thing.

  85. Mr DeBakey says:

    Miles Ahead
    Milestones
    Porgy and Bess
    1958 Miles
    Kind of Blue

    The Cap was around $40 Million when Hemsky signed his contract.
    Not when Horcov signed his.
    Horcov’s percentage was about the same as Hemsky’s

  86. Moosemess says:

    godot10: That plus they are basically a cover band, though a very good and business-savvy one, as most of their stuff is just reworked stuff from little known but sensationalsouthern black bluesmen.

    Originality is not Jimmy Page’s thing.

    Innovative Performer: Open tunings, acoustic albums, use of the theremin, violin bow, etc. Others may have done these things, but no one did them all in a rock context prior to Page.

    Innovative Producer: More than 10 years after it came out, bands were still trying to emulate the drum sound and mic’ing techniques that Page achieved on Led Zeppelin IV. Established the template for the proper way to achieve a big ‘drum’ sound on record.

    Innovative Songwriter: Immigrant Song, Thank You, Ten Years Gone, Kashmir, Rain Song, Dyer Maker, Fool in the Rain, etc. You realize none of these songs are ‘covers’, nor is there any allegations of copyright infringement with any of them, right?

  87. Gerta Rauss says:

    Mr DeBakey,

    Kind of Blue is timeless…it’s still stands up 50+ years later-simply outstanding album.

  88. JohnnyRocket says:

    Great news! Great thread! I’m a big Zep fan, but somehow their songwriting just doesn’t seem in the same category as Dylan, Lennon/McCartney , Springsteen, Jagger/Richards or Young. Or Morrison, for that matter (Van, not Jim). I guess I weigh the songwriting heavier than the performances. Which is why I have the Who, Zep, the Eagles and the Doobie Brothers in a kind of tier 1A category in my mind. I also think a cluster of albums all have to be as good as one another, or damn close, to be considered a successful cluster, which is why I my lists ate shorter, and I didn’t include Niel Young. I think if a not-quite-as-good album divides two others, it isn’t a proper cluster. This divides up a few discographies, including the Beatles and Stones.
    I’d add all the Velvet Underground’s albums, but White Light/White Heat divides them up.

    Here’s to having a beer, and then another!

  89. slopitch says:

    Steve Tambellini is having a nice summer.

  90. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Moosemess: Led Zeppelin
    II
    III
    IV

    Any Led Zeppelin convo has to start with Led Zepp I. Has to. Blazed the trail.

    I was more of a prog rock fan myself. This sequence by Genesis still gets turntable time in my place:
    Nursery Cryme (1971)
    Foxtrot (1972)
    Selling England by the Pound (1973)
    The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (1974)

    … then Peter Gabriel left and things started going south, though they were still really good for a few albums thereafter. Of course Peter himself kicked it with a series of exceptional solo albums, especially in the 80s.

    As for “Kind of Blue”, a live performance thereof once inspired me to write an entire Oilers-related story about the Heatley fiasco… and you just know what the punchline was gonna be.

  91. gogliano says:

    This is the Oiler’s best contract in the CBA-era. Only one that comes close is the Pronger deal.

    Great day to be an Oiler fan. Hall did the Oilers a huge favor with this contract. It’s clear he wants to build a winner. I think J. Schultz’s claim that Hall helped swing him to what they were building was more than mere talk. This is T. Hall’s team.

  92. sliderule says:

    As I said before the signing the oilers have to go all in.

    Eberle in my opinion has shown that he can deliver the goods.In the world juniors he was Mr. Clutch.

    He is like Hall the two time memorial cup MVP .they will deliver the goods when it counts.

  93. DSF says:

    It’s a contract that might work out very well….but it might not.

    Considering Hall’s actual point production and his injury history, it’s a contract based totally on wishing and hoping.

    Is Hall better than Tavares?

    No evidence of that.

    Stamkos?

    Ditto.

    At 6 million Hall is in Kopitar, Sedin territory with very little evidence that he can consistently produce at that llevel.

    Meanwhile, Lowe has set a benchmark that Eberle, Hopkins and likely Yakupov will all use to state their cases.

    They don’t actually have to produce like all stars, they just have to outperform Hall and I would wager all of them will.

    Too much, too long for a player that hasn’t hit 60 points.

    He’s making 1 million more than a Selke winner who has scored over 40 goals.

  94. cabbiesmacker says:

    godot10: That plus they are basically a cover band, though a very good and business-savvy one, as most of their stuff is just reworked stuff from little known but sensationalsouthern black bluesmen.

    Originality is not Jimmy Page’s thing.

    Total malarkey.

    I wonder if 2 million years ago, somewhere in the netherregions of Africa, Gronk came home to Oola one night all pissy after a night spent pounding on logs and said

    ” Fackin Zorg stole my beats baby.

    When I went syncopated rhythm HE went syncopated rhythm. when I went all rubato and 6/8 rhythm
    HE went rubato and 6/8 rhythm. ”

    “Now he’s telling everyone in the cave that he pioneered it all”

    “Dude’s just so unoriginal”

  95. cabbiesmacker says:

    JohnnyRocket:
    Great news! Great thread! I’m a big Zep fan, but somehow their songwriting just doesn’t seem in the same category as Dylan, Lennon/McCartney , Springsteen, Jagger/Richards or Young.

    Sing it with me now….One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn’t belong,.

  96. Gally says:

    How does the line in the sand work if in two years, Hall plays ~45 games, again, RNH gets 100 points and Yak gets 50+ goals? Admittedly, this is the worst best case scenario, and is a wonderful problem to have, but then the line in the sand gets obliterated.

  97. DSF says:

    Electric Ladyland

    Are You Experienced

    Rainbow Bridge

    Band of Gypsies

    Live at Berkeley

    ….and so on.

  98. Lowetide says:

    PhrankLee:
    Lowetide,

    How’s this for an album cluster:

    Little Feat:
    Little Feat 1971
    Salin Shoes 1972
    Dixie Chicken 1973
    Feats Don’t Fail Me Now 1974

    Love Little Feat. Wonderful band.

  99. "Steve Smith" says:

    DSF,

    Am I right in thinking that twenty-four years ago this month you were lambasting Bruce McNall’s overpay?

  100. "Steve Smith" says:

    Lowetide:
    If we’re going to do this, I must insist on a Neil Young section:

    1. On the Beach
    2. Tonight’s The Night
    3. Zuma
    4. American Stars and Bars
    5. Comes a time
    6. Rust Never Sleeps
    7. Live Rust

    I’d extend it a little in both directions – from 1969′s Everybody Knows to 1980′s Hawks and Doves, he put together just an incredible string of twelve to fifteen albums (depending on how you’re counting). Stars and Bars is the closest thing to a dud, but any album that includes Like a Hurricane is by definition not a dud (some people are going to tell me that Hawks and Doves sucked, but some people are excited about the Lavigne-Kroeger wedding). And the came the 1990s – to the best of my recollection, he didn’t put anything else out until Ragged Glory.

    (Although I agree with Truth Movement that Harvest was somewhat overrated. Which makes me sound like a hipster (as I understand the term), so I should probably add that After the Goldrush and Rust Never Sleeps deserve every bit of their acclaim and more.)

    Anyway. Neil Young. Whew.

  101. PunjabiOil says:

    This is a good contract. There is strong potential of overpeformance of the the contract.

    The 6M may seem large, but keep in mind with the salary cap being what it is today, it’s even better than Hemsky’s 6 year/24M deal in 2006. As a percentage of salary, Hall and Hemsky are (8.54% and 9.1% respectively).

    Strong chance of outperforming the contract. This is a good day for the Edmonton Oilers and their fans.

    The best part of it IMO was buying 3 UFA years. NYI and Carolina only bought 1 and 2 respectively for Tavares and Skinner.

  102. maudite says:

    DSF:
    It’s a contract that might work out very well….but it might not.

    Considering Hall’s actual point production and his injury history, it’s a contract based totally on wishing and hoping.

    Is Hall better than Tavares?

    No evidence of that.

    Stamkos?

    Ditto.

    At 6 millionHall is in Kopitar, Sedin territory with very little evidence that he can consistently produce at that llevel.

    Meanwhile, Lowe has set a benchmark thatEberle, Hopkins and likely Yakupov will all use to state theircases.

    They don’t actually have toproduce like all stars, they just have to outperform Hall and I would wager all of them will.

    Too much, too long for a player that hasn’t hit 60 points.

    He’s making 1 million more than a Selke winner who has scored over 40 goals.

    I think I’m joining the darkside because this is pretty similar to my line of thinking. I love crash bandicoot but signing this big and long of a contract with a guy that’s going in for shoulder surgery has got to set off some bells here no?

  103. GetYerAivazoff says:

    Moosemess,

    There are lots of great reasons to like Led Zeppelin. They were (are) brilliant musicians, who wrote several great original songs and made lots of fantastic sounding records. However, it is undeniable (really, UNDENIABLE) that they are responsible for several of the most blatant cases of musical plagiarism in 20th century popular music.

    For example, just listen to Leadbelly’s Gallis Pole and tell me that Zeppelin’s Gallows Pole is not substantially the same — beautifully polished, arranged and recorded, of course, with a clever twist ending added to the lyrics. Of course, whether or not it is “the same song” is disputable, but there is no doubt that Leadbelly deserved at least partial songwriting credit and royalties on that. Similarly the original Dazed and Confused by Jake Holmes, from which they lifted the title, the lyric phrasing and the main hook of the song, the descending bass line.

    Of course, it helps that they were by and large using material taken from poor, uneducated (or dead) musicians without the resources to launch a court challenge to get songwriting credit and royalties.

    To a lot of people, that lack of ethics casts a pall over their whole catalogue.

    Innovative Performer: Open tunings, acoustic albums, use of the theremin, violin bow, etc. Others may have done these things, but no one did them all in a rock context prior to Page

    I’m sorry, those are all flat-out wrong. People have been using open tunings for literally centuries, especially in American folk and blues; In a rock context, see also Neil Young. Page is hardly the first “rock” musician to record acoustic pieces, I can’t imagine why you would even say that. Theremin had been used before by lots of psych bands, even by the Stones — the sound of course being pioneered by the Beach Boys in the billion-selling Good Vibrations (even though that was not technically a theremin but an electronic instrument made to mimic the sound of the theremin). The violin bow was first used on guitar by Eddie Phillips of the Creation. In a rock context!

    As for the drum sound thing, yeah their records sound great, but please give credit also to engineer/producer Eddie Kramer, who actually did all the miking, recording and mixing…

    Oh yeah, and the Hall contract rocks.

  104. DSF says:

    PunjabiOil:
    This is a good contract.There is strong potential of overpeformance of the the contract.

    The 6M may seem large, but keep in mind with the salary cap being what it is today, it’seven better than Hemsky’s 6 year/24M deal in 2006.As a percentage of salary, Hall and Hemsky are (8.54% and 9.1% respectively).

    Strong chance of outperforming the contract.This is a good day for the Edmonton Oilers and their fans.

    The best part of it IMO was buying 3 UFA years.NYI and Carolina only bought 1 and 2 respectively for Tavares and Skinner.

    All the evidence we have is that the cap is about to take a steep hit.

    At this point no one kows what the landscape will look like a year from now which is why this contract is too much, too long and too soon.

  105. Lowetide says:

    "Steve Smith": I’d extend it a little in both directions – from 1969′s Everybody Knows to 1980′s Hawks and Doves, he put together just an incredible string of twelve to fifteen albums (depending on how you’re counting).Stars and Bars is the closest thing to a dud, but any album that includes Like a Hurricane is by definition not a dud (some people are going to tell me that Hawks and Doves sucked, but some people are excited about the Lavigne-Kroeger wedding).And the came the 1990s – to the best of my recollection, he didn’t put anything else out until Ragged Glory.

    (Although I agree with Truth Movement that Harvest was somewhat overrated.Which makes me sound like a hipster (as I understand the term), so I should probably add that After the Goldrush and Rust Never Sleeps deserve every bit of their acclaim and more.)

    Anyway.Neil Young.Whew.

    He’s amazing. I’ve been listening to Zuma this summer. Great album, just incredble.

  106. PunjabiOil says:

    All the evidence we have is that the cap is about to take a steep hit.

    At this point no one kows what the landscape will look like a year from now which is why this contract is too much, too long and too soon.

    The salary cap may be reduced from the present 57% to a lower number, but at that same time, the extension won’t come into effect until 2013-2014. Revenues will likely continue to grow, and each counting year the cap hit would account for less of a % of the salary cap.

    Skinner and Tavares set the market range. The Oilers paid a bit more, but also got more UFA seasons.

    I think only you are whining (as usual) about this contract.

    It’s quite sad, actually.

  107. bookje says:

    DSF, yes, we understand everything the Oilers do and are totally sucks. Thank you very much for coming. Move along now…

  108. JohnnyRocket says:

    Anybody in for some more recent classics? How about Wilco’s cluster of Being There, Summerteeth, and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot? I know we’re not in the same ballpark as others in the conversation, but those are some solid to fantastic albums.

  109. jb says:

    DSF: All the evidence we have is that the cap is about to take a steep hit.

    At this point no one kows what the landscape will look like a year from now which is why this contract is too much, too long and too soon.

    I wouldn’t worry to much about this contract. Overall we couldn’t really have asked for better. I understand where your fears are coming from though… But don’t worry, Luongo will look great in a nucks uniform at 42 with a full set of grey hair. Now there’s a brilliant and unmovable contract only a brightest of GM’s could dish out.

  110. PunjabiOil says:

    RISKS
    1. Hall doesn’t pan out, or takes a step back a la Matt Duschene
    2. Shoulder and/or other injuries plague his career.
    3. UFA age is raised in the next CBA – then the Oilers needlessly paid early on.

    REWARDS
    1. Potentially output will exceed performance
    2. Potentially sets a reasonable limit for the other 3 kids
    3. Potential of rollback on contract under the new CBA
    4. Potential of shorter length contracts under new CBA – might have lead to a higher cap hit for the next contract
    5. Symbolic gesture to the league. Establishing a core player to build around. Could have the same effects Iginla did in Calgary.

  111. tsunami says:

    jb: I wouldn’t worry to much about this contract. Overall we couldn’t really have asked for better. I understand where your fears are coming from though… But don’t worry, Luongo will look great in a nucks uniform at 42 with a full set of grey hair. Now there’s a brilliant and unmovable contract only a brightest of GM’s could dish out.

    Touché :)

  112. cc says:

    I’ve been quietly reading all LT’s Hall hype for two years and I’m tired of it. It’s as if you think he’s the second coming. Take off the rose colored glasses. He is not worth the signed contract and if he continues his current pace he’ll be out with injuries many more times, maybe the second coming of Wendel Clark.

    We went through the Tyler vs Taylor thing a couple years back and I still wish we had picked the other guy. But today Ebs and Nug are better players and will be long term. Ebs deserves at least equal if not more. But don’t trust my judgement, just wait and see… But remember who said it first.

  113. Reg Dunlop says:

    OK. Best album cluster, for a British musicphile, is a tie:

    Live at Leeds
    Who’s Next
    Quadrophenia
    Who Are You

    Minstrel in the Gallery
    Songs From the Wood
    Heavy Horses
    Stormwatch

    What is left to say about Hall?He will more than earn the $$$.

  114. Chris Hext---formerly EasyOil--- says:

    cc,

    Ok, this is really getting on my nerves. Why do people have to say “this guys crap but the other guy is great” when it comes to these young stars? Can’t people see they’re both tremendous young talents? Why does one being good HAVE to mean the other is shit? It doesn’t. Be glad Hall is an Oiler, frickin’ enjoy it for god’s sakes. He’s an electric talent, just as Seguin is.

    As for RNH and Eberle being better, well that’s just not true. It may be true in the future, but at this moment in time, Hall has a far greater effect on how well the Oilers perform than either of the other two do. It has been shown time and time and time again. Eberle could still score more points than Hall every year but show the same underlying stats, and I would take Hall every single time. Same reason Hemsky is valued so highly, he puts up numbers (this year excepted) against top competition – there is huge value in that. You can see it when watching him aswell. And again, that doesn’t mean Eberle and RNH are crap, they’re not – they’re great young talents. But Eberle’s season has been shown by any number of people to be the result of good luck as much as his own skill (and no-one denies Eberle is highly skilled), and with just one season in the league we don’t know enough about RNH yet.

    So, yeah, stop being such a debbie-downer and enjoy having four young phenoms on our team.

  115. Ducey says:

    Apparently the Rules Committee is looking at eliminating “embellishment” (AKA diving).

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=640294

    Ironic that a member of the VC (AKA Vancouver Canucks) was involved in leading the discussion.

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