OKC 12-13: PHIL CORNET

The Edmonton Oilers selected Phil Cornet in the 5th round in 2008. His 2 NHL games represent success. Does he have an NHL career in his future?

OKC RE 12-13: 70, 22-18-40

  1. He scored 24 goals a year ago, you have a slight dropoff. Is he a minor league Eberle? Only in that the numbers suggest he won’t repeat based on his shooting percentage.
  2. He scored 24 goals on 135 shots. So what? He finished 134th in the AHL in SOG, and 27th in goals. A 17.8% shooting percentage is unlikely to happen again.
  3. What if is it a skill unique to Cornet? Well, in his rookie season in the AHL, Cornet scored 7 goals on 86 shots. 8.1%
  4. Oh. Yeah.
  5. But he was the best scorer on the team. On the PP (11) Cornet had a major impact. That’s a solid year. At even strength, two veterans (Keller and Arcobello) had higher goal totals and several others (Green, Hunter Tremblay and Triston Grant) were in his range.
  6. Which of the real prospects has the most offensive ability? Great question. In terms of even strength points per game, the list goes Omark (.722); Paajarvi (.559); Hartikainen (.451); Cornet (.358); Lander (.357); Pitlick (.274) and Hamilton (.171).
  7. So he’d need to get NHL powerplay time and a very good shooting percentage to have a career? Based on this season’s information, yes.
  8. Is there a chance? Phil Cornet’s career path thus far is unique only because he was drafted in the 5th round and has played an NHL game during his entry level deal. He is 1 of 11 (30 total picked) from the 5th rd in 2008 to play in an NHL game. Beyond that, there’s not a lot that suggests he’ll have an NHL career.
  9. Perhaps you are confused about the meaning of the word ‘chance’? There’s a chance in the same way Liam Reddox had a chance, but the Oilers are bursting with prospects and other teams usually grow their own of this type.
  10. There is some evidence he has worked hard on his skating and other areas too. Yes. This article details his improvement and McCurdy quotes Billy Moores: “We always knew that he was a smart player, but the question mark was whether he could skate at the American League level. He went away in the summer and worked at getting stronger and now he skates well at this level. He can score, he makes plays, and he’s smart enough to play with good players.”
  11. That sounds pretty good. Yes, and if Cornet can continue to refine his skills then he might have a future.
  12. You don’t sound convincing. Well, as mentioned in point #8 there are a lot of players in the world similar to Cornet. Having said that, one of the things that can turn him into an NHL player is hard work and dedication. He’d need luck and someone to believe in him, but it does happen. Kyle Brodziak came into camp one fall even or behind first round picks Schremp and Pouliot and laid waste to the competition. It’s the old Bill James line: A short sermon on the worth of raw talent in baseball: There are probably not 10 players in baseball today who have as much talent at hitting a baseball as Mike Ivie. Our topic for next Sunday: John Mayberry is one of those 10. Our topic for the Sunday following: Pete Rose isn’t.
  13. What does that mean? Well, Rose wasn’t a natural talent but worked on making himself a better player. He was talented, no doubt. But he also moved around to different positions as needed, ran out every groundball like a lunatic and left it all out on the field.
  14. So it isn’t all about natural talent? Natural talent gets a player a very long way, but for someone like Cornet hard work can allow him to pass other players.
  15. Like? Curtis Hamilton.
  16. Hamilton will be fine. We’ll discuss that later, but I wanted to quote another item from Cornet in the McCurdy article linked to: “I’m working harder to get to the net, to get to those loose pucks, I’m working on my skating a lot and that helps too. I’ve been playing with good players, I have to give credit to them, but in the end I have to complete their plays and put it in the net, and I think I’ve been doing a good job this year.”
  17. Why did you quote that? Because that is what Curtis Hamilton needs to do. Phil Cornet could have enormous value to the organization if he never plays another NHL game. Sometimes healthy competition can motivate.
  18. So Cornet is ahead of Hamilton? Oh yes, I think so.
  19. How many LW’s are ahead of Cornet? From the Barons current (likely) roster, I have him as the #1 LW.
  20. So your top line is? Josh Green at center, Cornet at LW and Paajarvi on RW.

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51 Responses to "OKC 12-13: PHIL CORNET"

  1. Woodguy says:

    Eric T from NHL Numbers is knocking it out of the park yet again.

    He’s coming up with a new system to rank QC.

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/8/16/a-competition-metric-based-on-ice-time

    And he posts all 30 teams here:

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/8/17/time-on-ice-competition-plots-for-all-30-teams

    Eric is leading the charge moving the fancy stats conversation forward. Well worth following on Twitter and checking into NHLnumbers.com to see what he’s writing.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Agree completely. The guy is doing some great, great things.

  3. Braintrust says:

    Unfortunately, Cornet will never make the NHL. He is a very good AHL player, but he can’t skate well enough to play with the big boys. On a side note, I HOPE and PRAY there is a LOCKOUT! We need to MAKE SURE that Hall and Whitney have all the time they need to get back to 100%. My advice to the NHL and NHPLA is “take your time….there is no rush”. I would say a 1-2 month lockout would be perfect.

  4. Ducey says:

    Prospects that score 2x goals/ assists seem to be making a living off someone else’s playmaking. Cornet also had a pretty quick start and then cooled off in the second half. It makes me wonder whether last season is repeatable.

    I don’t know whether he plays enough defense to make the show. -6 in 14 playoff games is some indication he has trouble with D.

  5. regwald says:

    As I read this, I thought of Blair MacDonald. Had a career year with the best Center in hockey. I could have played with Wayne and never did better than 20 goals. Cornet has some finish and he has desire. I believe he will get another look in the show – whether it is with the Oilers or not remains to be seen.

  6. Chris Hext---formerly EasyOil--- says:

    I like Cornet, but don’t think he quite has it in him to pull a Brodziak.

    Man, I miss Brodziak. What it meant to have a quality 3rd/4th line centre. He was actually my favourite player the short time he was here. Kid seemed to get a breakaway every single game. Not that he converted often, but it was fun to watch. I think that Geoff Sanderson on that 07-08 team really helped mentor him – once he’d totally owned that training camp, of course.

    Why do Minny keep getting the best players in the trades we make? First Brodziak and then Gilbert.

  7. regwald says:

    Chris Hext—formerly EasyOil—,

    Maybe it has to do with the quality of GM making those deals … hmmm … Let me think about it and get back to you. LOL

  8. Moosemess says:

    Chris Hext—formerly EasyOil—:

    Why do Minny keep getting the best players in the trades we make?First Brodziak and then Gilbert.

    Given the amount of bandwidth expended on something as inconsequential in the big picture as the Gilbert/Schultz trade, I can only surmise that had it been available to the masses in 88, the Interweb would’ve spontaneously combusted from the fallout of the Gretzky trade.

  9. fuzzy muppet says:

    Pronman just tweeted the opening game lines for Farjestad.

    Klefbom on FOURTH D-pairing. That’s gonna help development

  10. Woodguy says:

    Moosemess: Given the amount of bandwidth expended on something as inconsequential in the big picture as the Gilbert/Schultz trade, I can only surmise that had it been available to the masses in 88, the Interweb would’ve spontaneously combusted from the fallout of the Gretzky trade.

    At least you could understand the Gretzky trade.

    Pocklington was broke and sold his most valuable business asset. $15 in 1988 dollars = $29 Million in 2012 dollars.

    Trading a RH multi-tool Dman with 2 years left on his contract for a LH defensive specialist with 360 more games worth of wear and 2 years left on his contract gets filed under “Name a trade you shouldn’t do”

  11. DSF says:

    Woodguy: At least you could understand the Gretzky trade.

    Pocklington was broke and sold his most valuable business asset.$15 in 1988 dollars = $29 Million in 2012 dollars.

    Trading a RH multi-tool Dman with 2 years left on his contract for a LH defensive specialist with 360 more games worth of wear and 2 years left on his contract gets filed under “Name a trade you shouldn’t do”

    Nashville just signed Hannan for $1M.

    The Oilers could have run out Gilbert and Hannan instead of Schultz although I am convinced the Gilbert trade was NOT a hockey decision.

    In any case, it’s unlikely that Schultz or Hannan would be part of an Oilers Stanley Cup team.

  12. Lowetide says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Pronman just tweeted the opening game lines for Farjestad.

    Klefbom on FOURTH D-pairing.That’s gonna help development
    It is a tournament before the season not the sel season

  13. uni says:

    Lowetide,

    Indeed, Klefbom is already penciled in as a starting D-man, this has more the flavour of a pre-season tune up to evaluate/audition the 3-4 replacements for lost defencemen.

  14. Moosemess says:

    Woodguy: At least you could understand the Gretzky trade.

    Pocklington was broke and sold his most valuable business asset.$15 in 1988 dollars = $29 Million in 2012 dollars.

    That’s not what Pocklington claims, though to be too fair, I have an oriental rug that lies less.

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/16/peter-pocklington-sets-the-record-straight-on-the-oilers-and-wayne-gretzky/

    Personally, I find the Gretzky ‘sale’ indefensible and extremely short sighted from a business perspective. Even by conservative estimates, that team could’ve won another 4 Cups had Wayne been resigned.

    The resale value of what would’ve been arguably the greatest hockey dynasty of all time would have far exceeded the additional player investment to ensure that team value. Lest we forget, this brilliant businessman is now resorting to securities and tax fraud to keep his empire solvent.

    I give Pete his due though. He was a helluva used car salesman.

  15. uni says:

    Also on the subject of Phil Cornet, I am still waiting for Benjamin Massey over at C’n’B aka Lord Bob to eat his hat.

    In his draft review from 2008 article “2008 Oilers Draft Review: #133, LW Philippe Cornet”, Lord Bob stated that should Cornet ever play even a single NHL game he’d publicly eat his hat. Well, we’re 2 games in. I’ve been waiting ever since =).

  16. spoiler says:

    Moosemess: That’s not what Pocklington claims, though to be too fair, I have an oriental rug that lies less. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/16/peter-pocklington-sets-the-record-straight-on-the-oilers-and-wayne-gretzky/Personally, I find the Gretzky ‘sale’ indefensible and extremely short sighted from a business perspective. Even by conservative estimates, that team could’ve won another 4 Cups had Wayne been resigned. The resale value of what would’ve been arguably the greatest hockey dynasty of all time would have far exceeded the additional player investment to ensure that team value. Lest we forget, this brilliant businessman is now resorting to securities and tax fraud to keep his empire solvent. I give Pete his due though. He was a helluva used car salesman.

    Well, to be fair, he sold new cars too. And hotdogs.

  17. Lucinius says:

    Ah, the Pocklington era. Between my grandfather (who had some work ties to Pocklington and knew the man personally) and an uncle who worked behind the scenes (fund raising primarily) of the conservative party back then I got to listen to a lot of stories about Peter Puck and how the conservatives screwed him deliberately and repeatedly after he tried muscling his way into politics.

  18. Moosemess says:

    spoiler: Well, to be fair, he sold new cars too. And hotdogs.

    And hopes and dreams, let’s not forgot those.

    In terms of his business acumen, I’m hard pressed to think of a businessman that so rapidly and readily pissed away his personal credibility and goodwill as Peter Puck. If Katz is a PR disaster now, Pocklington was a PR Holocaust back then.

  19. uni says:

    Chris Hext—formerly EasyOil—: I like Cornet, but don’t think he quite has it in him to pull a Brodziak.
    Man, I miss Brodziak. What it meant to have a quality 3rd/4th line centre. He was actually my favourite player the short time he was here. Kid seemed to get a breakaway every single game. Not that he converted often, but it was fun to watch. I think that Geoff Sanderson on that 07-08 team really helped mentor him – once he’d totally owned that training camp, of course.
    Why do Minny keep getting the best players in the trades we make? First Brodziak and then Gilbert.

    Brodziak is an excellent 3rd line centre to solid 2nd line centre. His established production seems to be be as a 40 point tough minutes centre. Putting up that many points while doing heavy lifting is pretty impressive.

    As for why Minny keeps winning trades with Edmonton, that’s a rhetorical question right? The constants are the GMs, Fletcher and Tambellini. I think it’s pretty clear that they just have a superior GM.

  20. Woodguy says:

    DSF,

    The Oilers could have run out Gilbert and Hannan instead of Schultz although I am convinced the Gilbert trade was NOT a hockey decision.

    I think they knew they were getting Shultz the Younger and were clearing the decks so he could get the ice time promised so he would sign.

    I got a strange message from someone who knows things from time to time after I was bitching about the Gilbert trade.

    He said “What if they had a better, younger version of Gilbert coming….??”

    I pursued him further about it, but he won’t talk about it, or acknowledge the first text.

    Maybe they were doing Gilbert a favour by trading him to MIN and Shultz the Elder fit the profile of what they wanted back.

    Regardless, I agree that as a straight up hockey trade it makes no sense.

  21. LP says:

    I have a question, completely unrelated to hockey. hope that’s ok LT ;o)

    I plan on changing my furnace in my home and would like some recommendations. This may seem as an odd place to ask, but I actually think the contrary.

    I have an old house in the capilano area. Its an old furnace that I plan to move to one side of the house. Some gas plumbing to do as well.

    You can reply here (if that’s cool) or at: lou _ pero at yahoo . ca

    thanks a lot!!

  22. Cactus says:

    Woodguy:
    Eric T from NHL Numbers is knocking it out of the park yet again.

    He’s coming up with a new system to rank QC.

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/8/16/a-competition-metric-based-on-ice-time

    And he posts all 30 teams here:

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/8/17/time-on-ice-competition-plots-for-all-30-teams

    Eric is leading the charge moving the fancy stats conversation forward.Well worth following on Twitter and checking into NHLnumbers.com to see what he’s writing.

    I’ve been taking a look at these since Eric T. posted them and I’ve been looking for a good excuse to bring them up, so thanks Woodguy!

    It’s got some interesting implications for how we view the Oilers last year. We’ve talked about how Eberle and the Nuge faced soft minutes (easy zone starts, middling CorsiRel QoC) but this chart suggests that the Oiler forward most likely to face the other team’s top D pairing was actually Eberle, who is slightly ahead of Hall. This might suggest a strong correlation between zone starts and defensive pairing QoC: forwards getting a zone start push are more likely to see top pairing D as opposing coaches play it safe on d-zone faceoffs.

    LT, I think there may be a fun post here (at least in this humble layman’s eyes)!

  23. Woodguy says:

    LP,

    I’ve used Weathermakers for heating and cooling and they have always been very professional with excellent techs and after sales service.

  24. Ducey says:

    DSF: Nashville just signed Hannan for $1M.The Oilers could have run out Gilbert and Hannan instead of Schultz although I am convinced the Gilbert trade was NOT a hockey decision.In any case, it’s unlikely that Schultz or Hannan would be part of an Oilers Stanley Cup team.

    Is Hannan any better than Sutton/Peckham/ Potter (who are the guys fighting it out for the #6 spot)? Seems like another #6 guy.

  25. Cactus says:

    Ducey: Is Hannan any better than Sutton/Peckham/ Potter (who are the guys fighting it out for the #6 spot)?Seems like another #6 guy.

    Based on his Behind the Net numbers, Hannan faced slightly more difficult QoC (Hannan was 4th on the team compared to 6th for Sutton in both raw and relative corsi), but Sutton was vastly more capable. Hannan had the worst Corsi of the 8 Calgary defenders playing more than 10 games.

    In other words, Sutton is at least as good if not a little better, based on last season. He wouldn’t add anything to Edmonton.

  26. LP says:

    Woodguy,

    Excellent, thanks WG!

  27. DSF says:

    Cactus: Based on his Behind the Net numbers, Hannan faced slightly more difficult QoC (Hannan was 4th on the team compared to 6th for Sutton in both raw and relative corsi), but Sutton was vastly more capable.Hannan had the worst Corsi of the 8 Calgary defenders playing more than 10 games.

    In other words, Sutton is at least as good if not a little better, based on last season.He wouldn’t add anything to Edmonton.

    What do you want to bet those numbers will look completely different now that Hannan plays for Nashville?

    Using Corsi to rate a stay at home defenseman is just ludicrous.

    Hannan was second on the Flames in TOI among defensemen was 4th in EVTOI/G (17:25) and was on their 1st PK unit (2:50)

    Suggesting he would be no better than Sutton, Peckham or Potter is just goofy.

  28. Ribs says:

    That’s goalie interference right there. NO GOAL!!!

  29. Ribs says:

    …And now I’m left wondering if Lashoff kicked his goalie in the face one second after the photo was taken from stepping on that stick blade.

  30. Cactus says:

    DSF: What do you want to bet those numbers will look completely different now that Hannan plays for Nashville?

    UsingCorsi to rate a stay athome defenseman is just ludicrous.

    Hannan was second on the Flames in TOI among defensemen was 4th in EVTOI/G (17:25) and was on their 1st PK unit (2:50)

    Suggesting he would be no better than Sutton, Peckham or Potter is just goofy.

    Well, for starters, Hannan was 2nd in PK TOI/G and 4th in EV. But more substantially, TOI rankings aren’t especially appropriate in this measurement. Consider the following:

    Player 1: 4th in EV TOI/G, 2nd in PK TOI/G on 9th ranked PK, -10
    Player 2: 4th in EV TOI/G, 1st in PP TOI/G on 3rd ranked PP, -16

    These numbers alone tell you that these two players are relatively similar in terms of value and if anything, you’d want the PP quarterback from the 3rd rated powerplay. In other words, you’d want Corey Potter over Scott Hannan.

    I would call this a flawed measurement myself, but it’s the one you used to “disprove me”, so fair is fair. I don’t think Potter is certainly better than Hannan – I just don’t think Hannan has anything to indicate he is clearly better than the bottom end of the Oilers D. Sutton even has a better plus/minus – a favourite stat of yours.

    Finally, if you want to dismiss Corsi for a stay at home defencemen, that’s fine – but back it up. Things aren’t a certain way just because you say they are.

  31. sliderule says:

    Thanks for the link to NHL numbers.

    This is good stuff as I don’t trust the results from corsi.

    Now if only someone will keep track of time of possession.In nearly every other team sport its very important.

    In the glory days it seemed the other team hardly had the puck.

  32. DSF says:

    Cactus: Well, for starters, Hannan was 2nd in PK TOI/G and 4th in EV.But more substantially, TOI rankings aren’t especially appropriate in this measurement.Consider the following:

    Player 1: 4th in EV TOI/G, 2nd in PK TOI/G on 9th ranked PK, -10
    Player 2: 4th in EV TOI/G, 1st in PP TOI/G on 3rd ranked PP, -16

    These numbers alone tell you that these two players are relatively similar in terms of value and if anything, you’d want the PP quarterback from the 3rd rated powerplay.In other words, you’d want Corey Potter over Scott Hannan.

    I would call this a flawed measurement myself, but it’s the one you used to “disprove me”, so fair is fair.I don’t think Potter is certainly better than Hannan – I just don’t think Hannan has anything to indicate he is clearly better than the bottom end of the Oilers D.Sutton even has a better plus/minus – a favourite stat of yours.

    Finally, if you want to dismiss Corsi for a stay at home defencemen, that’s fine– but back it up.Things aren’t a certain way just because you say they are.

    We discredited Corsi a few threads back.

    20 teams in the NHL had a winning record while being outshot.

    20.

    That’s not me saying it…them’s the facts.

  33. DSF says:

    sliderule:
    Thanks for the link to NHL numbers.

    This is good stuff as I don’t trust the results from corsi.

    Now if only someone will keep track of time of possession.In nearly every other team sport its very important.

    In the glory days it seemed the other team hardly had the puck.

    This.

    All fucking day long.

    Using shots and Corsi as a substitute for possession is ridiculous.

  34. Woodguy says:

    DSF: We discredited Corsi a few threads back.

    20 teams in the NHL had a winning record while being outshot.

    20.

    That’s not me saying it…them’s the facts.

    No, you discredited yourself by ignoring evidence.

    I provided many links to “score effects” and how many take into account that the team that is behind tends to outshoot the team that is ahead. The fact that you ignored them is inconsequential to the validity of the stat.

    5v5 with the score tied or close is the standard that many use for corsi rankings to take care of score effects.

    The fact that you ignore that is your decision and decides/discredits nothing.

  35. Woodguy says:

    DSF: This.

    All fucking day long.

    Using shots and Corsi as a substitute for possession is ridiculous.

    Its ridiculous when you ignore the correlations.

    Shit, everything is ridiculous when you ignore the correlations.

  36. Woodguy says:

    Here DSF, I’ll take your logic to its logical conclusion.

    Teams that shoot more tend to lose games.

    Teams lose games because they don’t score enough.

    Therefore:

    In order to score more goals teams need to stop shooting.

    Well done sir!

  37. Cactus says:

    Woodguy:
    Here DSF, I’ll take your logic to its logical conclusion.

    Teams that shoot more tend to lose games.

    Teams lose games because they don’t score enough.

    Therefore:

    In order to score more goals teams need to stop shooting.

    Well done sir!

    I was actually just about to post a response to DSF, but that says it way better.

    Shoot less, start winning. Brilliant.

  38. DSF says:

    Woodguy: No, you discredited yourself by ignoring evidence.

    I provided many links to “score effects” and how many take into account that the team that is behind tends to outshoot the team that is ahead.The fact that you ignored them is inconsequential to the validity of the stat.

    5v5 with the score tied or close is the standard that many use for corsi rankings to take care of score effects.

    The fact that you ignore that is your decision and decides/discredits nothing.

    As you well know…Corsi does not account for score effects or many other game states.

    It’s very close to useless.

  39. DSF says:

    Woodguy: Its ridiculous when you ignore the correlations.

    Shit, everything is ridiculous when you ignore the correlations.

    How about ignoring the negative correlation between Corsi and winning hockey games?

    That’s ridiculous.

  40. DSF says:

    Cactus: I was actually just about to post a response to DSF, but that says it way better.

    Shoot less, start winning.Brilliant.

    No, shooting more is a good thing.

    Using it to measure anything else is just stupid.

    Unless you correlate for game state, coaching strategy, personnel, save percentage, shot quality and a partridge in a pear tree.

    Using a team stat to assess an individual, while also ignoring everything else that is happening on the ice is ridiculous.

    If you want to measure possession, then measure it for fucks sake.

    Corsi measures how many pass attempts a quarterback makes with no reference to score, completions, touchdowns, game state, or whether the team has the best running back in the league to run it up the middle and wind down the clock.

    It is beyond stupid.

  41. Lowetide says:

    A two port night, sounds like. :-)

    DSF, the train has left the station. We were discussing this 5 years ago.

    Is Tie Domi’s kid going to be a superstar? Man, I didn’t see that coming.

  42. Woodguy says:

    DSF: How about ignoring the negative correlation between Corsi and winning hockey games?

    That’s ridiculous.

    How about Team Fenwick (Corsi – blocked shots) in games where the score is tied or close?

    Look at this:

    http://behindthenet.ca/fenwick_2011.php?sort=6&section=close

  43. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    A two port night, sounds like.

    DSF, the train has left the station. We were discussing this 5 years ago.

    Is Tie Domi’s kid going to be a superstar? Man, I didn’t see that coming.

    Maybe that’s why I find DSF’s posts so frustrating.

    Those questions were asked years ago and answers were found.

    If DSF doesn’t want to read the answers, no one can make him, but man I wish he’d quit posting like he just invented the wheel when its all old news.

    Also,

    Speaking of progeny…Reinhart’s youngest kid Sam captain’s Canada’s under 18 team and doesn’t turn 17 until November 6th.

    Scored 62pts in 67 games in the WHL and was 15 when training camp started.

    Lordy.

  44. Woodguy says:

    DSF,

    Corsi measures how many pass attempts a quarterback makes with no reference to score, completions, touchdowns, game state, or whether the team has the best running back in the league to run it up the middle and wind down the clock.

    It is beyond stupid.

    The only thing beyond stupid is your lame QB comparison.

    Just stop.

  45. Cactus says:

    Lowetide,

    To go back to an earlier theme in this thread, does the Eric T TOI QoC chart for the Oilers change your opinions on any players? Or just confirm your impressions from existing measurements and by eye?

  46. Lowetide says:

    Cactus: I think we saw–as the season wore on–that Eberle, Hall and the Nuge were getting tougher opposition. The ZS was the big push imo, as mentioned in the Eberle RE question #8

    8. Renney protected him. Certainly in zone starts, Renney gave the gifted kids a big push there. But the Qual Comp number wasn’t so drastic we should consider it protection beyond getting a good matchup for your best offensive options.

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/04/jordan-eberle-11-12-like-a-hurricane.html

  47. rickithebear says:

    Ice time to measure how a player attacks the zone and success rate of a puck directed towards the net. for quality of comp over GA.

    You guys are nuts!

    you bitch about ice time decisions of coaches.Then a guy uses those choices to rank players and you love it.

    I am pissing myself laughing!

    The only thing funnier today was watching my city raised wife screaming bear. Looking out the Family room window of my sisters house just outsie of quesnel. As a large black bear walked past the slip and slide my kids were on 10 minutes earlier.

  48. dohfOs says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Pronman just tweeted the opening game lines for Farjestad.

    Klefbom on FOURTH D-pairing.That’s gonna help development

    No reason to panic. That “opening game” was a European Trophy one and he played on the 3rd pairing (his partner was awarded 2nd star) not 4th. 4th pairing (which isn’t a pair but a single) was Lidström, a player Färjestad normally rely heavily on. Basically, it was a pre-season game.

    Färjestad play their home opener September 13th so we’re still far away from the regular SEL-season and it’s way too early to read into things.

  49. raventalon40 says:

    DSF: No, shooting more is a good thing.

    Using it to measure anything else is just stupid.

    Unless you correlate for game state, coaching strategy, personnel, save percentage, shot quality and a partridge in a pear tree.

    Using a team stat to assess an individual, while also ignoring everything else that is happening on the ice is ridiculous.

    If you want to measure possession, then measure it for fucks sake.

    Corsi measures how many pass attempts a quarterback makes with no reference to score, completions, touchdowns, game state, or whether the team has the best running back in the league to run it up the middle and wind down the clock.

    It is beyond stupid.

    This problem can simply be solved by splitting the Corsi spreadsheet into those exact circumstances.

    I have such an issue when people say a stat or a number is “meaningful” or “meaningless,” since we derive all meaning from the impartial statistic.

    There is nothing stupid or smart about stats because numbers don’t give you a meaning. The numbers are what they are and they don’t lie. It’s true that some stats measure individual ability better and some measure team ability better, but taken in context with other stats they paint a useful picture.

    So if you want to know the Corsi with the lead, without the lead, with the game tied, and then tie it in with QUALCOMP and other stuff, I think that would give you the exact situations you want to analyze.

    The only thing is building a spreadsheet with the ability to select exactly the situation you describe.

    That could be challenging. I don’t know enough about macros to even attempt that.

  50. raventalon40 says:

    And a side note: I feel as if coaching strategy is kind of useless to correlate for, but it’s useful to consider, since you would need to measure the efficiency by which a strategy is understood by each player and how well they each do their part and this would rack up losses of efficiency anywhere and everywhere. This is too subjective and would not even be useful in any forum of mathematical discussion.

    You could probably do a null hypothesis type of deal and see if certain coaching strategies yielded the opposite result of the intended outcome. If it doesn’t then the opposite is true and if it does, then unfortunately your null is correct.

    (Ex. do dump and chase strategies lead to better possession or less offsides)

    Otherwise, I can’t think of any effective way of evaluating coaching strategy.

  51. fuzzy muppet says:

    dohfOs,

    Thanks. This whole lockout BS has me on edge.

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