CRAZY DAY IN NYC?

I’ve always been fascinated by NYC, since I was a kid and my Dad told me about visiting it coming back from WW2. Today and through the rest of this week, the fate of hockey’s finest league may be decided and if its anything like last night it’ll be theatre worthy of Broadway.

The cast is well known to us, but the plot bubbles and boils with mind blowing possibilities. How often have we–and I mean really, how often–seen an enterprise as mammoth as the NHL go to the brink? What happens most often is an advance in technology levels an industry–the Globe and Mail employed calligraphers as late as the 1970′s (my friend’s Dad was one of the last)–and then the world shuffles the deck and we move on.

Imagine the possibilities–we could see a Canadian Hockey League by fall, or a 100-team league with several tiers ala Euro football–and of course there’s a chance they put it all back together and the NHL flies in two weeks.

There have been few times in my experience as a fan when so many things seem possible. I find myself wondering why CNN isn’t covering this–at some level this has the chance to be historically significant.

As I write this, Canada has lost to the USA (5-1) and the Russians are down 2-1 to Sweden in the third. Nuge did not play hero today, and despite an assist on the Russian goal Nail Yakupov has been part of the problem for the home side during the last two weeks.

By the weekend, the scores and names will be written in the history books, but there’s a good chance  some of the things that happened in Ufa will remain with the Nuge and Yakupov. That is the nature of the sport: WJ’s is a lot about lore.

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44 Responses to "CRAZY DAY IN NYC?"

  1. murphy says:

    Yak is waking up now, he just had a great chance. Whatever happens in this game, thank you to Sweden and Russia for giving us a great show! This has been what a semi-final should be!

  2. Lucinius says:

    Well, Swedes win. I’d say they deserved it, but the Russians made it interesting in the second half of the game. Sets up an interesting bronze medal game between Canada and Russia. Gold medal between the Americans and the Swedes, and I just don’t see anyone stopping the American momentum.

  3. Zipdot says:

    Malcolm Subban giving up 4 goals on 16 shots cost Canada dearly. I would like to see him shipped out to some kind of a gulag.

  4. Zipdot says:

    Yakupov not having much luck in the shootouts.

  5. bookje says:

    I don’t care what agreement the league and players come to. I will never ever watch another NHL game or give one penny to these spoiled billionaires and millionaires*

    *Disclaimer – Any hatrick or four point game by any of Yakupov, RNH, Hall, Eberle or Shultz voids this statement, as does any totally awesome feed by Shultz to send Eberle in on a breakaway in which he scores or at least comes close, as does any dip doodle move by any of the above. Basically, if any of them ever do anything awesome at all, ever, I am back in, but otherwise I am sticking to my guns and never, ever watching the NHL again.

  6. Zack says:

    The Canadian game was highly upsetting. Usually I think to myself “well at least this isn’t our true representative because our guys are playing in the show already” but it wasn’t the case. However what did cheer me up was when a nice Canadian girl tweeted to @wheelingprobs this morning this picture https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A_rcOxICIAArmFJ.jpg that and Sweden has another chance at gold!

  7. Lucinius says:

    Well, 63rd in the TSN challenge.. still 3 points back. Slim chance to win now, with only one game left (they don’t include the bronze medal game for some reason), but we’ll see. Ah well. Was fun to give it a shot.

    As for the labour talks… fuck ‘em all. Get a deal done. You’re bitching about minor issues now. League needs to go up to 65 million cap for second year, NHLPA needs to cave on contract term, and the pension? Give me a break; when your average NHLer makes more in a year than an average Canadian does in 30-40 years (conservatively), pensions shouldn’t be an issue — you have accountants and financial planners already. If you’re too dumb to set yourself up for life after even 4 seasons of league minimum? You don’t deserve it.

  8. speeds says:

    Will be interesting to see what next year’s Canadian team looks like, the 2012 draft was historically weak for top end CDN F’s, and a number of the really good 2013 F’s will probably jump straight to the NHL

  9. Ducey says:

    Looks like the NHL is pushing to buy out 2 contracts per team. Horcoff is really in for it now.

  10. JohnnyRocket says:

    Sorry, late to the comments, but I have to vent somewhere. What was Spott doing playing Murphy so much? I know that he’s your captain at home, but he has been the weak link all tournament. And why did the Nuge’s line sit so much in the first? And Subban declared the starter at the beginning of the tournament? Grrr.

    New York. It is impossible not to fall in love with it. I found I felt like I had deja vu when I was there. So many places feel like you’ve been there before because you’ve seen them on Law and Order or some movie. It’s strange.

    I hope that the owners lose business, if and/or when play returns. I know it is unlikely, but I really hope that most fans withhold their money. And I’m not on the players side either. Fehr=Bettman in my books.

  11. Captain Happy says:

    Ducey:
    Looks like the NHL is pushing to buy out 2 contracts per team.Horcoff is really in for it now.

    Maybe they’ll buy him out twice!

  12. Gerta Rauss says:

    Ducey:
    Looks like the NHL is pushing to buy out 2 contracts per team.Horcoff is really in for it now.

    That’s the best news I’ve heard this morning. I don’t understand why the league is stuck on the $60M cap…they should step it down over 2 years to give teams flexibilty to reach the $60M goal-as long as the 50/50 is agreed to I just don’t understand why this is a problem.

  13. Ducey says:

    Kypreos is reporting the players are being asked to vote.

    On a new CBA? Of course not. For permission to disclaim. FFS.

  14. Truth says:

    Gerta Rauss,

    Would the right answer be approximately $150 Million, or $5 M per team that is saved on player wages next year, providing the players are looking for a $65 M cap?

    I don’t think they buy out Horcoff. I can already hear it; “Just because he doesn’t put up big numbers doesn’t mean he doesn’t contribute to this team in other areas. Shawn is a key member of this team and organization, he is our Captain..” The smart move, however, would be to buy him out and sign him for 2 years at the league minimum. As he is on record saying he is quite financially comfortable and could go without the rest of the money owed to him on his contract (which he would be receiving anyway). Although I would be just as happy watching him walk and picking up one of the other teams bought out (but much better) trash.

  15. Ducey says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    That’s the best news I’ve heard this morning. I don’t understand why the league is stuck on the $60M cap…they should step it down over 2 years to give teams flexibilty to reach the $60M goal-as long as the 50/50 is agreed to I just don’t understand why this is a problem.

    Presumably its more palatable to the owners to pay less up front, rather than wait until year end to get the escrow back. It would also level the playing field, allowing the small market teams to be more competitive early in the deal.

    But you you are right, at 50/50 its not a “hill to die on”.

  16. jp says:

    Zipdot:
    Malcolm Subban giving up 4 goals on 16 shots cost Canada dearly.I would like to see him shipped out to some kind of a gulag.

    Blaming Subban for this loss is absurd. 4GA on 16SA looks bad, but Canada was completely outclassed through 40 min. This was a team effort – they deserved to get blown out and they did. This ugly loss was difficult to watch, but putting it on the shoulders of any one player is simply not fair or accurate.

    Zack,

    That does help. Just a little.

    JohnnyRocket:
    Sorry, late to the comments, but I have to vent somewhere.What was Spott doing playing Murphy so much?I know that he’s your captain at home, but he has been the weak link all tournament.And why did the Nuge’s line sit so much in the first?And Subban declared the starter at the beginning of the tournament?Grrr.

    I thought Murphy played pretty well today. The use of RNH has been very weird though. It looked like Spott tried to make up for hardly playing him in the 1st by playing the hell out of him in the 2nd – he must have played half the period.

  17. Truth says:

    The buyouts will help the Oilers by (hopefully) creating 56 new free agents, not by the Oilers’ ability to lose a contract, IMO. Maybe a veteran D-man looking to refresh his career by playing with youthful high scoring team.

    I expect Khabi gets put on the IR and rides the season out there, only to retire following the season due to injuries.

  18. Gerta Rauss says:

    Truth,

    I’m no expert on the economics of the deal, but if the revenue split is 50/50 effective immediately, the “step down” to a $60M cap would mean the cap in 13/14 would just be an arbitrary number-the cap wouldn’t be linked to revenue in 13/14. Ducey is right in that the owners would have to wait for the escrow to actually get their hands on the money, but it seems such a frivolous item to get hung up on.

    I fully admit I might not be understanding the economics of this.

  19. gcw_rocks says:

    If the cap falls to 60M the Oilers will desperately need to buy out Horcoff to manage under the cap to sign Smid, Gagner, and RNH, plus plug some holes.

    Do the math. Horcoff is done. Next captain is Smyth or Hall?

  20. FPB94 says:

    Lucinius: Pension plans are necessary sadly. I invite you to go check ESPN’s documentary ”broke”.

    A lot of athletes spend their money in a stupid fashion : Then again a lot of them end up with no money for other unrelated reasons.

    A lot of players lose money because of family, bad advisers, terrible investments etc (EX: Fedorov lost almost all of his money to fraud). The average guy is in and out of the league after 3 years, most of them with high health expenses.

    Most of them are young guys who are given large amounts of money terribly quick, with no financial education (Most of the time, just no education) and they’re let go.

    50%+ of NFL/NBA players end up broke after 5 years out of the league. The least money the young guys have to spend, the better for the health of the NHLPA.

  21. Ducey says:

    Gerta Rauss: Truth, I’m no expert on the economics of the deal, but if the revenue split is 50/50 effective immediately, the “step down” to a $60M cap would mean the cap in 13/14 would just be an arbitrary number-the cap wouldn’t be linked to revenue in 13/14. Ducey is right in that the owners would have to wait for the escrow to actually get their hands on the money, but it seems such a frivolous item to get hung up on.I fully admit I might not be understanding the economics of this.

    Michael Grange says that the issue here is that the NHL wants to get to a lower cap floor to help the weaker teams. They could just lower it and leave the cap at $65M, but then some teams would be spending around 30 -40 % less than others – not good for competitive balance.

  22. Gerta Rauss says:

    Ducey,

    Yeah, I read about the floor issue as well. I guess my point is that if they can “fudge” the cap ceiling in 13/14 they could fudge the floor as well.

    We wait.

  23. dessert1111 says:

    Who’s the 2nd player to buy out? Ben Eager? He gets my vote, even though it’s not much money and only one season.

  24. FPB94 says:

    Don’t waste those on guys you can buy out for no money anyway. You can probably pry a pick away from a team with $$$.

    Idk How Cap Floor is an issue. Cheap teams will just continue to do the same : Ride out the insurance of injured guys, or issue contracts with stupid bonuses (Like Fabian Brunnstrom’s MVP bonus) to make their salary go up while they pay nothing.

  25. Gerta Rauss says:

    dessert1111,

    The 2nd player I would buy out would be Gomez right after the “wow” trade for Subban..:)

  26. Gerta Rauss says:

    FPB
    What’s the word on Subban on the streets of Montreal…?..is there a problem there…?…are they going to be able to sign him after NOT being able to sign him all summer…?

  27. RickDeckard says:

    dessert1111:
    Who’s the 2nd player to buy out? Ben Eager? He gets my vote, even though it’s not much money and only one season.

    The Oilers only have 4 guys going past next year (Horcoff, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov) so if they are going to use a second buyout then it will have to be on a short term guy. Eager gets my vote too.

  28. FPB94 says:

    Gerta: Word is at worst i’l end up as a qualifying offer / Arbitration.

    If they trade him there’s 2 scenarios:

    A: They ask for the world and they get it
    B: Riots

  29. spoiler says:

    Lots of socialism going on in this thread….

    Pensions… Stupidity, incompetence, short careers, and bad luck are not good reasons for a guaranteed pension. Nor is there any guarantee that Union or League-ran pensions would do better than those managed by the players themselves. There are plenty of real-world examples of this… Calpers, SS, etc. This “solution” solves no problems.

    Cap floor… Guaranteeing competitive balance for the poorer teams only masks the problem–it does not solve it. The problem is that there are grossly unsuccessful teams. In the real world, the market would cull or move these teams. Hiding the problem only further magnifies the imbalances as time marches on–or are our education and news systems so weak now that no one remembers the past 20 years of economic history?

    We have had no hockey for 110 days so that these two parties can argue over economic non-solutions. As I said in the last thread, it’s so pathetic that it makes a perfect metaphor for modern politics.

  30. Gerta Rauss says:

    FPB94,

    Montreal would be nuts to trade him but something has smelled fishy about that whole scenario since the end of last season.

    **crosses fingers, hopes for rioting in the streets**

  31. spoiler says:

    If the cap goes down… The $60 million dollar question will be would Steve Tambellini and Rick Olczyk have been smarter to wait for a CBA before signing Hall & Ebs?

  32. bookje says:

    Spoiler – Stupidity, incompetence, short careers, and bad luck are the only reasons for a guaranteed pension – if people were all rational creatures with good reasoning there would be no need for pensions.

  33. spoiler says:

    Really, Book¡e? Explain to me how your employer owes you a guaranteed pension above and beyond your negotiated (and generous) salary, due to your stupidity, incompetence, short career and bad luck. Please.

  34. spoiler says:

    And then explain to me how guaranteed pensions don’t provide incentives for stupidity, incompetence, laziness and “bad luck” (inordinate risk-taking).

  35. bookje says:

    Spoiler – some things occur without incentive, they are simply natural. Not every influence in the market causes some form of moral hazard. People don’t choose to be born stupid for example.

    As per why an employer might ‘owe’ someone a pension, it’s pretty simple, two parties make an agreement that one will pay the other a pension. That’s it. Assuming that the employer is rational, they will take this into account in either accepting or rejecting the deal. They may require that the overly generous salary you are demanding needs to come down.

  36. Wolfie says:

    I wonder what the real issue behind the pension argument is? Is it a reduction in number of games to qualify for full pension? Is it an NHL funded pension? Equal contribution pension? What I really don’t understand about this is what was so bad about the pension in the last agreement? Why does it need to change.

    Players can’t access their pension anyways until 55 I believe. In the meantime if they need income they’ll have to find a job. Probably one that offers a pension.

  37. bookje says:

    Of course, we are talking about a private negotiation as opposed to a government mandated pension. Government mandated pensions exist because as a society we prefer our stupid, lazy, and inordinate risk takers to be living in a home somewhere bitching about the communists in government while awaiting their government pension cheque as opposed to laying around on the streets begging from us and spreading their old people diseases.

  38. stevezie says:

    bookje:

    As per why an employer might ‘owe’ someone a pension, it’s pretty simple, two parties make an agreement that one will pay the other a pension.That’s it.

    Yeah I’m not sure where you’re coming from here Spoiler. The pension is’t something the government forced the league to create- it’s just part of the salary, like vacation time or a company car. It’s as free market as apple pie grown by Monsanto and watered with the blood of the farmers they destroyed in the process. Well, just the apples, not the crust.

    It would have been really helpful if Subban was the solution today, but he wasn’t the problem either.

    If the cap drops to 60 we don’t have room for Horc, but DSF is right about one thing: Neither does this team does have the centre depth to see him evaporate. So… let’s hop the players win the cap debate. Remind me again why we needed to sign The Two before the new deal?

  39. spoiler says:

    bookje: Spoiler – some things occur without incentive, they are simply natural. Not every influence in the market causes some form of moral hazard. People don’t choose to be born stupid for example.

    Did someone say this? Not sure why you are making this point. I certainly don’t believe that “every influence in the market causes some form of moral hazard”. Maybe you are trying to say something else? Don’t know. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

    As per why an employer might ‘owe’ someone a pension, it’s pretty simple, two parties make an agreement that one will pay the other a pension. That’s it. Assuming that the employer is rational, they will take this into account in either accepting or rejecting the deal. They may require that the overly generous salary you are demanding needs to come down.

    No shit, Sherlock. Again, you are missing the point.

    bookje: Of course, we are talking about a private negotiation as opposed to a government mandated pension. Government mandated pensions exist because as a society we prefer our stupid, lazy, and inordinate risk takers to be living in a home somewhere bitching about the communists in government while awaiting their government pension cheque as opposed to laying around on the streets begging from us and spreading their old people diseases.

    This was pretty funny. Not true, but funny nonetheless.

  40. hunter1909 says:

    bookje: Government mandated pensions exist because as a society we prefer our stupid, lazy, and inordinate risk takers to be living in a home somewhere bitching about the communists in government while awaiting their government pension cheque as opposed to laying around on the streets begging from us and spreading their old people diseases.

    This could be the funniest thing I’ve ever read in my life.

  41. FPB94 says:

    Spoiler: Man you sound like Fox or Sun news.

  42. spoiler says:

    FPB94: Spoiler: Man you sound like Fox or Sun news.

    I can’t say I approve of either publication. The Sun is banal and hermetic in nature; Fox News is ridiculous in its rah rah rah blind support for the status quo and equity markets.

    I prefer to obtain my news from sources that actually enage in critical thought and maintain some facade of journalistic integrity. Not that there’s many of these sources around anymore.

    Your response above is a wonderful example of employing “guilt by association”, as an actual argument when it fact it is merely a smear, a form of ad hominem attack — in other words, your statement is completely devoid of critical thinking. And ironically, this is a technique often employed by Fox News.

  43. FPB94 says:

    spoiler,

    No. You just did that.

    By ”sound like Sun News/Fox News” I meant it about making a big deal out of nothing. But heh. Whatever floats your boat.

    Ad Hominem is attacking the person, if your argument sounds like something, it’s more of linking the arguments together, rather than suggesting you and them are bad and you should feel bad.

  44. Lewis Grant says:

    stevezie: If the cap drops to 60 we don’t have room for Horc, but DSF is right about one thing: Neither does this team does have the centre depth to see him evaporate. So… let’s hop the players win the cap debate. Remind me again why we needed to sign The Two before the new deal?

    We have been complaining for years about not having enough 3rd/4th-line defensive centres. What in the world would we do without Horcoff? Pray for a comeback season by Belanger, I guess. That’s not entirely impossible…but wouldn’t it be better to have TWO good defensive centres? Especially if Gagner may be on the trading block?

    Agreed on the early signing of Hall/Eberle. That should have been blindingly obvious, especially since those two will set the bar for everyone else.

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