STARS AT OILERS, G13 (12-13) 12.2.13

The Oilers leading scorer is a guy they liked so much the press release for his 1-year contract read like a spanking, and their leading goal scorer is a guy management was fixing to have walk the plank before Taylor Hall mentioned he hoped they kept him. If Mr. Magoo managed an NHL team, what team would it be?

On Sportsnet this weekend Gene was telling the story about Sam Gagner meeting Justin Schultz at a college party (there were girls there being thrown in the air, suspect there might have been jocularity) and lobbying Schultz to sign with the Oilers instead of southern California (that’s an ice-to-Eskimos task 89 managed btw).

We also saw Ryan Smyth look like Wayne Cashman about 1983, Gagner-Hemsky good and bad and a gifted PP that simply refused to use the neutral zone as anything more than a stage to try to do it all alone. Remember the SC run in 2006 when the Oilers were having the same trouble? Someone (Peca?) sent the puck to an area and Radek Dvorak got momentum in over the line and won the zone and a goal. Or what about earlier this season, when Gagner cut to the middle and sent the puck on a tee to Hemsky while also moving the defender over just a little? These are smart men, they’ll figure it out.

Let it be tonight, and let it be against Dallas. Why? Because Mike Modano, because Mike Keane because Ed Belfour and because that freak Hatcher. Because 1998, because 1999, because 2000, because 2001, because 2003.

I don’t really know why Minnesota didn’t win a Stanley way back there somewhere. They had great players–Ciccarelli was a terrific player, maybe the most hated great scorer in the game’s history; Neal Broten, playmaker, skilled, smart, great on faceoffs; Sam’s Dad Dave Gagner who was a fine 2-way player. One thing, they always made strange choices for coach–Bill Mahoney, Lorne Henning, Herb Brooks, Pierre Page–on it went. Finally, Bob Gainey came in and then he got the GM’s job and hired Hitchcock. Modano was a killer, a cold hearted killer. Man. What a player.

Oilers waived Darcy Hordichuk yesterday, suspect Chris VandeVelde will be recalled as a special favor to PJ Stock. I don’t have anything against Hordichuk or Steve MacIntyre or any of those folk, they earn a living in the toughest way possible and no one has a right to take your dream away. I’m in my 50s and spent a long stretch of my life enjoying boxing and a good hockey fight, but a smart man once told me “once you know, you know” and man that’s a fact isn’t it. Reg Fleming and Bob Probert are gone, hey we didn’t have the information that is now available. Once you know, you know.

NORTHERN EXPOSURE

Oilers have a nifty home stand beginning tonight but they always play like crap and corruption first game home. So, I’m going opposite George today–tea instead of coffee, different route to work,  vodka instead of vermouth at lunch, I’ll put in a full day–I mean completely opposite! Suggest you do the same.

Dallas GM Joe Nieuwendyk received some praise from new Oiler defenemen Mark Fistric.

    • Fistric to the Dallas Morning News: “I give Joe a lot of credit, because he moved me to a place where he knew I would fit in better, and where I might have a better opportunity. I personally thanked him for that. It’s business, I know, but it’s more than that to us, so you feel good when something happens that makes things better for you.”

nw captrue1

 

Oilers at the quarter pole are just about where they should be and there are some good signs. Ralph Krueger has benched and scratched veterans, moved #1 overalls up and down the lineup and there is a logic and a reasonable train of thought to his decisions. What’s more, the organization has shown–Fistric deal, Hordichuk waiver–they are more proactive than in the past.

What they need to do now is get a defenseman. An NHL defenseman. An actual NHL player defenseman. I’d prefer a puck mover, but if he can PK that’s good too.

I’m always rambling on about trades, and if this team made one this week to address defense then I would begin to believe they’re actually interesting in the standings. It’ll be fun to have management join the fans and players in the passion and pursuit of excellence.

It’s been a long time.

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378 Responses to "STARS AT OILERS, G13 (12-13) 12.2.13"

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  1. BlacqueJacque says:

    No Modano, no Zubov, no Belfour, no Hatcher, no problem?

  2. DBO says:

    Uhhmmm, I am confused. Lines as per twitter from Copper and Blue. May just be them speculating:

    64-89-83 |
    94-4-14 |
    91-93-56 |
    54-20-37 |

    I suppose it means Nuge is really hurting and they are trying to reduce his EV minutes. So much for Smyth getting benched. At this rate he;ll take stupid penalties all day so he gets promoted to top line.

    So now Hall at centre? Well, people have wanted it so here ya go.

  3. tcho says:

    Zubov… man. He was the guy I always hated/admired the most.

    They’ve got to play stronger/smarter than against CBJ, no? Goilers!

    *clapclap*

  4. BlacqueJacque says:

    DBO,

    Oh no, not more icetime for Smytty…

  5. bookjLe says:

    “Their leading goal scorer is a guy management was fixing to have walk the plank before Taylor Hall mentioned he hoped they kept him.”

    You don’t believe that LT. The team is not managed by Hall. Tambellini resigned Hemsky – give credit where credit is due.

    This notion that everything good in the organization is the doing of Hall or MacT and everything bad is the work of Tambellini, Katz, and Lowe is a bit silly.

  6. Woodguy says:

    Why? Because Mike Modano

    Logged in and the first thing I saw was the Modano picture and I said outloud, “Fucking Modano, fuck him”

    Great player. OIlers killer.

    Then you got me thinking about all the muggings that prick Hatcher was able to get away with when they didn’t call holding, hooking, interference, cross-checking or roughing.

    Fuck them.

    *spits*

    I had a lot of respect for Zubov though. Amazing player.

    Played more minutes than anyone else on the ice and smoked between periods, including the marathon OT sessions those two teams would get into.

    Also,

    I think tonight is not your standard “first game back from the road trip let down”

    The Oilers are taking heat for the shitty play and the leaders will lead by example.

    I expect 4 to be flying everywhere.

    Or what about earlier this season, when Gagner cut to the middle and sent the puck on a tee to Hemsky while also moving the defender over just a little? These are smart men, they’ll figure it out.

    I love that play and I wish they used it more, especially 4.

    4 draws 2-3 guys to him every time. Take them to the middle and leave the puck in a spot for clean entry at high speed for the trailer.

    Zone Entries, Zone Exits and more shots, oh my.

    Go Oilers!!

    *clap,clap*

  7. Lowetide says:

    bookjLe:
    “Their leading goal scorer is a guy management was fixing to have walk the plank before Taylor Hall mentioned he hoped they kept him.”

    You don’t believe that LT.The team is not managed by Hall.Tambellini resigned Hemsky – give credit where credit is due.

    This notion that everything good in the organization is the doing of Hall or MacT and everything bad is the work of Tambellini, Katz, and Lowe is a bit silly.

    I believe Tambellini would have traded Hemsky if not for Hall and Lowe, and sincerely believe Gagner is here because of Lowe. jmo.

  8. Woodguy says:

    bookjLe:
    “Their leading goal scorer is a guy management was fixing to have walk the plank before Taylor Hall mentioned he hoped they kept him.”

    You don’t believe that LT.The team is not managed by Hall.Tambellini resigned Hemsky – give credit where credit is due.

    This notion that everything good in the organization is the doing of Hall or MacT and everything bad is the work of Tambellini, Katz, and Lowe is a bit silly.

    In the OIl change episode that had the 83 re-signing, 83 is sitting in Lowe’s office for a long time, then comes out and Tambellini congratulates him and shakes his hand.

    Not the actions of the guy who actually got the deal done.

  9. hunter1909 says:

    Short of Mike Peca and CFP returning, it’s going to be up to these guys to figure things out for themselves.

    At least the goaltending isn’t an issue, for the first time since wtf.

  10. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    McCurdy’s new toy from COH
    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/02/11/introducing-zone-exits-the-cult-of-hockeys-latest-non-traditional-stat-or-how-jeff-petry-responded-to-a-new-defence-partner-on-sunday/

    I love all the information we are getting about the minutea of the game these days.

    Guys staring at the tube and watching and re-watching to get it right then giving us that info for free is like Disneyland.

    Thanks Bruce!!

    That’s why I have a particular disdain for the guys who say “just watch the game and forget the stats”

    Stats is reported events from watching/recording the game in excruciating detail that one person could never do on their own.

    Its like watching the game on a mixture of Adderall and Peruvian Marching Powder.

  11. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: Why? Because Mike Modano
    Logged in and the first thing I saw was the Modano picture and I said outloud, “Fucking Modano, fuck him”
    Great player. OIlers killer.

    Modano…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yxLlZkknv0

    that video should get the academy award for “inspiring the largest range of emotions in a video short”

  12. Jordan says:

    Oilers have a nifty home stand beginning tonight but they always play like crap and corruption first game home.

    The Oilers have been playing like crap and corruption for a few games now. If they play that way tonight, I’m not sure it will have anything to do with it being their first home game.

    That being said… I really hope that waiving Hordi is a prelude to the team bringing in a player without sending anyone out. Omark, anaheim’s 2nd and a b- prospect for…??? Travis Hamonic is having a rough season so far. Is he a player that would be of interest?

  13. DBO says:

    Gonna say it until the org goes and gets him, but Brian Boyle from the Rags is getting 9-10 mins of icetime and has been healthy scratched 2 games in a row. Rags have this year and next to compete and may agree to adding vets. Off load anyone but the kids to make it happen. Mind you that means we can send them no one good, but maybe Slats is really an oiler in a Rangers role, a genius planted double agent!!!!! Do it Tambo!!!!

  14. Roughneck says:

    Long time ago at Cooke golf course in Prince Albert. Tall skinny kid shows up with some raider coaches. Im whacking a bucket on the range. they wander over and we give this kid a few pointers.
    They give him a three iron and he blasts it out the end of the range.
    Legend goes that its the first golf ball he ever hit.

    His picture graces this page. #stud.

    First playoff game I ever took my son too was vs these same stars. Jani put one on the tape of the opposition and the knife was drilled in deep. He survived the trauma (my son). Oil should have tied it late, puck hit their goalie in the cuff above the trapper… total fluke save. They got a lot of that when they were good (the stars).

  15. fuzzy muppet says:

    It sure is comforting to know that the Oilers finally have their own version of Zubov for the next decade. Long live Justin Schultz!

  16. goldenchild says:

    If there are 2 teams I have been waiting for the Oilers to get good enough to drum they are the Stars and Canucks. Canucks are still a much better team but I reallythought that first game against Dallas was going to be the day we started to get some revenge and then Jagr happened.

    They really should win this game but you can tell that the top guys are gripping the sticks too tight and there is way too much let me take this puck down and make a play by myself. 89 has been really good at playing a simpler game this year, hopefullythat rubs off.

    Have liked that 91 has been more aggressive going to the net, great to see him get some resuts in PPs created and then be rewarded with a big goal. With so many of those 2nd and 3rd rd picks failing the need for 91 to be a big part of a secondary line where he can play against good comp is even more important and I like where his game is moving. A very important player.

    Finally I know Whitney has been bad but Im not sure Potter has been any better in his own end, at least with 6 you get a plus passer and PP contributor. Just keep hi away from 64.
    God I would love a deal for Lubo, I would go opposite George for week if it meant getting him back.

  17. bookjLe says:

    Lowetide: I believe Tambellini would have traded Hemsky if not for Hall and Lowe, and sincerely believe Gagner is here because of Lowe. jmo.

    I think its fine to take guesses about this stuff based upon the information that trickles out. It’s possible that Lowe was the champion for those two players – we don’t know for sure. We were given the impression that Lowe hammered out the details with Hemsky’s agent and Hemsky. I don’t recall any indications that Tambellini didn’t like Hemsky, but I don’t recall it very well.

    Anyway, I tend to treat the group as a group and judge them as a group because I don’t know who does what. I tend to think that Tambellini is not strong at some aspects of the job, but I am hopeful that the management team as a whole will be able to make the move required to make the team a contender.

    Regards,
    Bob

  18. goldenchild says:

    There seems to be huge disconnect between traditional hockey media people and everyone else on the usefullness of guys like Hordichuck and Eager and others that play that role. Even if you put aside the issue of long term consequences to the players health and just look at it from do they help your team win, all the evidience seems to point one way. 2 coaches here have not used that player or felt it was necessary and that appears to be the league norm not the outlier. There doesnt seem to be any analytical support of the usefulness of that type of player to help win games and maybe most importantly nobody uses them in the playoffs when winning matters most but none of it seems to convince the mainstream hockey media. What gives?

  19. bookjLe says:

    anyone have a link to a video clip of Justin Schultz’ ninja like defensive move the other night?

  20. pboy says:

    Lest we forget about that fuckstick Benoit Hogue…….how many big goals did he score in the playoffs?

  21. maudite says:

    bookjLe: I think its fine to take guesses about this stuff based upon the information that trickles out.It’s possible that Lowe was the champion for those two players – we don’t know for sure.We were given the impression that Lowe hammered out the details with Hemsky’s agent and Hemsky.I don’t recall any indications that Tambellini didn’t like Hemsky, but I don’t recall it very well.

    Anyway, I tend to treat the group as a group and judge them as a group because I don’t know who does what.I tend to think that Tambellini is not strong at some aspects of the job, but I am hopeful that the management team as a whole will be able to make the move required to make the team a contender.

    Regards,
    Bob

    Where there is smoke there is fire. I don’t really give Lowbellini much credit in Hemsky at all. The bum rush out of town media storm was in full effect. When Stauffer, the paid mouth, piece starts piling gas on extra thick there is a management scheme at works. They were looking to torch this guy and just couldn’t find the right price.

    Also, as being the perpetual supporter as you seem oft to be:

    Hall/Eberle 6 mil deals prior to understanding CBA (especially the Ebs deal if regression likely was to come to pass) -> still a big fan just no good reason to sign these deals early.

    Gagner on a one year deal that likely could have been a longer deal for slightly more -> the contract really made no sense (arbitration is going to be brutal if he keeps close to this pace)

    I find these contracts all things considered to be very poor under the circumstances.

  22. CrazyCoach says:

    Hey LT,

    And remember, “You just can’t live in Texas if you don’t have a lot of soul”. Always was correcting my dad about that line and reminding him that Waylon Jennings stole it from Doug Sahm, or at least used it to play tribute.

    SRV was unreal. Did you know that they guy used to have bass frets on his guitar and used .013 gauge strings? He must have had the grip strength of 3 men.

    Anyway, I’m hoping to catch some of tonights game but tonight is my daughter’s first swim lesson and between that and bath time after, I’ll be lucky.

    I really thought the Oilers should have won that last game, but alas, Jagr’s unrelenting will to never age and Whitney *sigh*, Whitney’s complete lack of mobility 69′d that idea.

    Go Oilers!

  23. Ribs says:

    Speaking of Whitney, will he be playing the part of Jagr-Victim again tonight? Or is he occupying a pressbox seat?

  24. Ribs says:

    Oh, and Hordichuk has cleared waivers (Yayyyy).

  25. Ribs says:

    …With VV being recalled.

  26. jake70 says:

    bookjLe:
    anyone have a link to a video clip of Justin Schultz’ ninja like defensive move the other night?

    Watching hockey central at noon yesterday, Kypreos made sure to point out that it was 19′s own play that put him in that bad position to begin with….guess a 22 year old rookie who misreads the play, gets caught, and makes an all-world play to recover isn’t good enough for him. Imagine if that was Gardiner for the Leafs.

  27. Bos8 says:

    jake70: Watching hockey central at noon yesterday, Kypreos made sure topoint out thatit was 19′s own playthat put him in that bad position to begin with….guess a 22 year old rookie who misreads the play, gets caught, and makes an all-world play to recover isn’t good enough for him.Imagine if that was Gardiner for the Leafs.

    They would have to go to the AHL

  28. Bos8 says:

    Tonight I present Magnus with a boing strap to hook onto Jaeger. “Maggie, where he goes, you go. Talk to him about beautiful Prague in the summertime, maybe he likes fishing”

  29. jake70 says:

    Bos8: They would have to go to the AHL

    Didn’t realize he was down with the Marlies, but you get my point, that hilite would be played non-stop on TSN and Sportsnet for 24 hours straight.

  30. Ducey says:

    A nice tie in between the Stars organization and the Oilers is the Gagner family.

    Dave Gagner was drafted 12th overall by the Rangers in 1983. He kicked around in the minors for the Rangers until he was traded to the Northstars in 1987. In his 6th year (1988-89) he broke out in the NHL with 78 pts in 75 games. He put up another four 70+ pt seasons for the Northstars. He played another 3 for Dallas once they moved. He wound up with 719 pts in 946 games. (.760 p/g)

    Sam Gagner was drafted 6th overall by the Oilers. He is now in his 6th season since being drafted and has broken out and leads the Oilers with 13 pts in 12 games.

    Its hard to know if Sam will go on to 5 seasons of 70 + pts, but genetics and the similarity of the timing of their breakout seasons (if this year is sustained) say its likely.

  31. Reg Dunlop says:

    I , like most oil fans, have been patient for the better part of a decade. I don’t know what has made me so hasty lately but NOW is the time to distance ourselves from the Dallas type non-playoff teams. We win big tonight.

    Comparing Smyth to Cashman? My favorite Cash story has him in a scrum during a D Schultz vs T O’reilly fight. Terry had the Hammer on his back and Cashman is trying to kick Schultz in the head while the always stand-up O’reilly covered him to save him from a boot jacking. Ryan Smyth has a long way to go before he is in the same asshole class as Cashman. As for skating ability, sadly the comparison is spot-on.

    As for reasons why the North Stars never won anything, 3 reasons. Montreal(until 1979) Islanders(until 1983) and Edmonton(until 1990). The era of dynasties.

  32. RMGS says:

    Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers

    #Oilers lines at morning skate: Hall-RNH-Eberle Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky Paajarvi-Belanger-Hartikainen Eager-Smyth-Petrell

    Good to see the original top two lines again.

  33. Roughneck says:

    pboy,

    Yes. He was a silent killer. Too bad Jani had the uncomfortable habit of thinking he was on the Oilers.
    million dollar tool chest…. 5 cent brain… jani.”was mental”

  34. Roughneck says:

    FWIW… give ralph a listen for a few minutes on the dallas broadcast just to hear his delivery of the proper pronunciation of Hartikainen. Its gold…. he even nails the lilting. The guys a total beauty.

  35. Mark-LW says:

    Ryan Smyth scratched

  36. RMGS says:

    Looks like Smyth’s scratched.

    I don’t think the mainstream media will complain too much about the move, but here’s a thought. Should the team not start winning soon, Edmonton’s sports “journalists” will turn on Krueger. His (rational) roster decisions will be questioned increasingly as will his reluctance to go along with conventional wisdom, e.g. “the kids need protection, dammit!”

  37. Bos8 says:

    Ducey:
    A nice tie in between the Stars organization and the Oilers is the Gagner family.

    Dave Gagner was drafted 12th overall by the Rangers in 1983.He kicked around in the minors for the Rangers until he was traded to the Northstars in 1987. In his 6th year (1988-89) he broke out in the NHL with 78 pts in 75 games.He put up another four 70+ pt seasons for the Northstars.He played another 3 for Dallas once they moved.He wound up with 719 pts in 946 games. (.760 p/g)

    Sam Gagner was drafted 6th overall by the Oilers.He is now in his 6th season since being drafted and has broken out and leads the Oilers with 13 pts in 12 games.

    Its hard to know if Sam will go on to 5 seasons of 70 + pts, but genetics and the similarity of the timing of their breakout seasons (if this year is sustained)say its likely.

    I’m sorry. Sam is half the player his father was. Dave Gagner was a complete hockey player, his son not so much.

  38. godot10 says:

    Unlike Moreau, Smyth was awfully candid and almost contrite about his penalties the day after. I think he earned is way to another shot before joining Whitney in the Krueger’s doghouse.

  39. DeadmanWaking says:

    BlacqueJacque: I’ll put in a full day–I mean completely opposite! Suggest you do the same.

    A week ago I sent my special parse-resistant coating off to the shop for a tune-up and haven’t got it back yet, so this is excellent timing. I guess opposite George for me is to be succinct and straightforward and to not pretend I’m playing Scrabble with five S’s and two vowels, until I draw again for the next sentence. Oops, maybe this is harder than it looks.

    Or maybe not. To a man standing at the North pole, you’re two weeks from everywhere, spin the bottle always points south, and the blindfold is never wrong. Pick an opposite, any opposite.

    Hmmm, I think I’m going to go with the opposite opposite, a reverse half-order of opposite 360. Instead of baking something fresh over the keyboard, I’ll just dump out some word play that never made the cut.

    I have a dream America
    I’ll have a dram Scotland
    I have a Dremel China
    I had a drachma Greece
    We love a drama Brazil
    I’ll have a Dramamine Haiti
    I have a drum Bethlehem
    I have a dome Telly Savalas
    I have your dime AT&T
    I have a theme John Williams
    I have a ream(er) Pyongyang
    I have a spleen Libya
    I’ll have a steam Finland
    We have a drain India
    I hear a drone Afghanistan

    This last one presently boomeranging its way back to American soil, in a very undreamlike way. Even better, George-wise, I can’t presently recall why I was doing this. Some kind of low-brow parody of the famous speech.

    Also from the dirty sock drawer, I will now confess that the evening after the limerick episode on lo these black pages I was jesting in bed with my squeeze, and she more or less challenged me in the moment to compose extemporaneously on a rhyme scheme pattered after prickle/sickle (extemporaneousness in the moment is the best kind).

    I can no longer recall which one I conjured on the spot under pressure, but I had this lot by the next afternoon:

    There was a Swiss shrink in a prickle
    who vowed if he just had a nickel
    for women who roar
    yet willing for more
    so long as his beard doesn’t tickle

    There was a dry wag in a prickle
    who vowed if he just had a nickel
    ere doctors inquire
    mirth mingled with ire
    on why he put glue in his dick’le

    There was a chill dude in a prickle
    who vowed if he just had a nickel
    for hot babes who gorge
    on munchable forage
    too peckish to dine on his pickle

    There was a Don Juan in a prickle
    who vowed if he just had a nickel
    when women wiggle their toes
    in lascivious throes
    while he craves for a gush not a trickle

    And, finally, my attempt at crass-factor ten double-puss-plus, which renders me not entirely unlike Sean Avery (as Douglas Adams would phrase it):

    There was a doll lass in a prickle
    who fumed to get more than a nickel
    for each satisfied wank
    by a meat-pated Hank
    bog-eyed to gander a glans up her brig’ole

    “Doll lass” Debbie being the only freshly-smelted alteration of the original sprue. At the time I sought a clever alternative to “porn star” and never turned the trick. Jebus, there’s a lot of slang to wade through for things you can do with a porn star. I fondly recall, however, that my failed quest unearthed “fluffer”, the best slang term I’ve yet discovered to strenuously avoid explaining to a mixed group–unless you succeed with the terse and mildly cryptic explanation for its sideline application to “bullpen catcher”, but this requires somewhat paradoxically a mixed-group of people uniformly quick on the uptake–he says dumping “qxxqkk” from a mitt full of clackers. (In this department, porn jargon has nothing on SEAL Team jargon: I need to get a head shot so he won’t have a chance to clack himself off and “We put a breaching charge on it, clacked it, and the door peeled like a tin can.” That’s a good read. Speaking of the tin man, I’m having a flash-forward that any day now Woodguy will remind us how we lost Hedja and Glencross in a spate of suicidal negligence *clack,clack*)

    When I was a teenager, once or twice I bought a “Mystery Box” from Radio Shack, which always contained a potpourri of weird stuff that never added up to an interesting circuit, much less a workable detonator. It was the electronics equivalent of the yesterday’s griddle scrapings (and worse) that wind up in today’s fast food chili special. Once you know, you know.

    Well, I must admit that I kind of improvised over the keyboard this idea of ransacking the unmatched, dirty sock drawer, so I fear I’m out of my depth having merely scraped by with the superficially opposite.

  40. Bos8 says:

    godot10:
    Unlike Moreau, Smyth was awfully candid and almost contrite about his penalties the day after.I think he earned is way to another shot before joining Whitney in the Krueger’s doghouse.

    I don’t think Smytty is in the doghouse. He’s probably beat up pretty badly. This will give him almost a week to heal up and get his second wind. I would consider this, giving him a breather., ie good coaching. This sched is brutal for the kids, never mind the older guys.

  41. bookjLe says:

    I would not have scratched Ryan Smyth after playing him out of position.

  42. Bos8 says:

    bookjLe:
    I would not have scratched Ryan Smyth after playing him out of position.

    I stand by my reading. I think Smyth is whacked, Needs a blow.

  43. goldenchild says:

    bookjLe: I would not have scratched Ryan Smyth after playing him out of position.

    +1

  44. RMGS says:

    bookjLe:
    I would not have scratched Ryan Smyth after playing him out of position.

    I’m inclined to agree but for different reasons, namely that he’s a better hockey player than Eager or Pettrell. That he took three bad penalties has little to do with playing centre, imo.

  45. bookjLe says:

    While I agree that Smyth is struggling through the season, probably due to taking a bit of a light approach to the long off season, I would have given him the benefit off the doubt for at least one more game.

    With that said, if RK can establish a culture in the room that going to the PB is not a terrible punishment, but rather something that everyone should expect when they are struggling a bit that would be a great thing. In the past, the PB has been a public shaming and that has prevented the team from making the best decisions regarding game rosters.

  46. Zipdot says:

    bookjLe: With that said, if RK can establish a culture in the room that going to the PB is not a terrible punishment, but rather something that everyone should expect when they are struggling a bit that would be a great thing. In the past, the PB has been a public shaming and that has prevented the team from making the best decisions regarding game rosters.

    Never gonna happen. Everyone knows the press box is for bad, sucky players who don’t deserve to skate because they’re so lame and the team wouldn’t miss them if they up and died one day.

  47. GordM says:

    Good for RK. I will never question Smyth’s heart…but his penalties this year have been lazy and selfish. Message needed to be sent.

  48. Zipdot says:

    Bos8: I’m sorry. Sam is half the player his father was. Dave Gagner was a complete hockey player, his son not so much.

    Did Dave ever have an 8-point game? No? Ah, I see.

  49. Ribs says:

    Ireland tweets…

    Ryan Whitney said he has no intention of asking for a trade but has been scratched for three times in his career — all with #Oilers

  50. Ribs says:

    Rishaug Whitney tweet…

    Quote is “We got outshot 40-14 and I’m still not playing.”

  51. Ribs says:

    Spector tweet…..

    “As we get better as an organization, there will be players who don’t meet our expectations anymore.” – Krueger.

  52. bookjLe says:

    I would trade Smyth for Penner. Then everyone would be happy.

  53. Woodguy says:

    Every MSM I heard and read today says the OIlers are playing like shit.

    Twitter and blogs full of questioning sitting 94 and RK coaching.

    That can only mean one thing.

    7-3 Oilers.

    Eager gets one.

    BOOK IT!!!!!

  54. Woodguy says:

    goldenchild: +1

    What does playing C have to do with stupid stick penalties in the ozone?

  55. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Ohhh boy – the shit is hitting the fan – Rishaug has all of the Whitney tweets and Smyth no media availability info

    Love the Krueger. Finally some accountability: “here’s no room for feelings in this”

    What a message to the young core – I don’t care who you are.

    Wonder what Tambolowe are thinking?. He won’t play Hordichuk or Whitney and benches Smytty. Hmm – he doesn’t like the players we gave him?

  56. "Steve Smith" says:

    goldenchild: Finally I know Whitney has been bad but Im not sure Potter has been any better in his own end, at least with 6 you get a plus passer and PP contributor.Just keep hi away from 64.

    I’m not sure that either is clearly better than the other. I think that all other defencemen to have played for the Oilers this year (i.e. no comment on Peckham) are clearly better than both. I’m okay with scratching either Whitney or Potter, in any given game.

    I can’t speak for others, but the reason that I’m happy to see Whitney getting scratched is that too many coaches would, when faced with that choice, always scratch the less established player with the smaller contract, which are factors that should not be determinative (if they should enter into things at all). Krueger is willing to ice the lineup that he thinks maximizes the chances of winning; good for him.

  57. goldenchild says:

    Woodguy,

    Certainly reasonable question WG but to me he seemed totally out of his element and like he was playing desperate because of it, fatigue probably played a role as well. Look maybe he’s shot and just cant do it anymore but I would of liked to see him get a game back on the left side before getting the night off esp considering the alternatives. If it’s simply a consequence for the bad penaties then i guess its fine but if it because how bad he looked I would of preferred to see him play 1 more before the hook came out. I get why RK did it, I would of just given him a little more rope I guess because I do think they need him or someone like him to make playoffs.

  58. Bos8 says:

    Zipdot: Did Dave ever have an 8-point game?No?Ah, I see.

    With that eight point game, how was his season otherwise. (Rhetorical) Hey, he got two points in two minutes the other night, how were the other 58 minutes?

  59. BlacqueJacque says:

    bookjLe:
    I would not have scratched Ryan Smyth after playing him out of position.

    Playing out of position makes you slow, tired, and make bad decisions about whether or not the refs are calling hooking and slashing?

  60. geowal says:

    I’m inclined to think they should, at least for a couple games, go away from the single D-man powerplay model. It has been too easy for the shooting lanes to be blocked (silly good J Shultz plays aside). I think if they have two point man playing closer to the line it spreads the defenders out a bit more and allows for quicker/safer perimeter passing, more movement and hopefully better opportunity for one-timers.

    Of course there are really only 3 serviceable PP men dressing each game when Fistric plays…so…set one unit up that way. Might be interesting if the look of the 2nd unit was totally different from the first. JMO.

  61. bookjLe says:

    Those automated vollman charts the other day showed Whitney as facing the ‘toughs’ for the first time in his career and struggling a bit. They showed Potter doing better than I expected.

  62. bookjLe says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Centres skate more than wingers – exhausted players take bad penalties. Anyway, even if it didn’t affect him, I would give him the opportunity at redemption in his regular position and the I would sit him if he didn’t redeem himself.

  63. BlacqueJacque says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    Ohhh boy – the shit is hitting the fan – Rishaug has all of the Whitney tweets and Smyth no media availability info

    Love the Krueger. Finally some accountability: “here’s no room for feelings in this”

    What a message to the young core – I don’t care who you are.

    Wonder what Tambolowe are thinking?. He won’t play Hordichuk or Whitney and benches Smytty. Hmm – he doesn’t like the players we gave him?

  64. Woodguy says:

    bookjLe:
    Those automated vollman charts the other day showed Whitney as facing the ‘toughs’ for the first time in his career and struggling a bit.They showed Potter doing better than I expected.

    QC looks fairly consistent, but Zone Stars are tougher.

    Half his 2008 year was tougher comp as well.

    http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2012_s%2B2012_p%2B2011_s%2B2011_p%2B2010_s%2B2010_p%2B2009_s%2B2009_p%2B2008_s%2B2008_p%2B2007_s%2B2007_p&f2=5v5&f3=Ryan+Whitney&f5=&f4=&f7=&update-filters=Update+Results

  65. Gerta Rauss says:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415806

    TSN has the Whitney comments

  66. BlacqueJacque says:

    bookjLe:
    BlacqueJacque,

    Centres skate more than wingers – exhausted players take bad penalties.Anyway, even if it didn’t affect him, I would give him the opportunity at redemption in his regular position and the I would sit him if he didn’t redeem himself.

    yup. Now if you tell me you’d be making the same excuses for a 37 year old Petrell, MPS, or Eager, you might have a case. But Smytty is tired – not out of breath tired, old man playing road games back to back tired.

    This sit is more rest than punishment.

  67. BlacqueJacque says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415806

    TSN has the Whitney comments

    Whitney may have been sat for only three times in his career, all with the Oilers, but I bet none of his other teams had him pivoting on one foot.

    I’d trade him if we could find a trade partner. We are paying him four million a year for the player he was.

  68. bookjLe says:

    Woodguy: QC looks fairly consistent, but Zone Stars are tougher.

    Half his 2008 year was tougher comp as well.

    The graph shows 2 2008 years, is this different teams? That high left 2008 is very very high, it seems like an anomolie. On other graphs the difference from a 0 to a 5 is pretty dramatic. If you remove the 2008 result, the higher Q of C would show up more clearly.

    Edit:I see it is S for season and P for Playoffs.

  69. Woodguy says:

    bookjLe:
    WG – see the chart for Shawn Horcoff’s year of pain (2012) to see how it would look on Whitney’s graph if the one result were removed.

    http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2012_s%2B2012_p%2B2011_s%2B2011_p%2B2010_s%2B2010_p%2B2009_s%2B2009_p%2B2008_s%2B2008_p%2B2007_s%2B2007_p&f2=5v5&f3=Shawn+Horcoff&f5=&f4=&f7=&update-filters=Update+Results

    This year’s QC numbers will normalize with more games played as well.

    Sample size can cause huge swings early.

  70. bookjLe says:

    Woodguy,

    I don’t think PB games count, though some of those concession foods might count as tough competition.

    More than anything, I think its interesting the Whitney has been a soft minutes kind of D-man mostly with the exception of one playoff run.

  71. Woodguy says:

    bookjLe:
    Here is a look at Whitney just in Edmonton.

    http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2012_s%2B2012_p%2B2011_s%2B2011_p%2B2010_s%2B2010_p%2B2009_s%2B2009_p%2B2008_s%2B2008_p%2B2007_s%2B2007_p&f2=5v5&f3=Ryan+Whitney&f5=EDM&f4=&f7=5-&update-filters=Update+Results

    Much tougher QofC this year.

    Watching how other coaches tried to match up, it doesn’t surprise me.

    Last DAL game RK had the 2-5 out against Benn-Jagr as much as possible, but whenever 6 hit the ice Gulutzan had Benn-Jagr out as fast as possible.

  72. Woodguy says:

    bookjLe:
    Woodguy,

    I don’t think PB games count, though some of those concession foods might count as tough competition.

    More than anything, I think its interesting the Whitney has been a soft minutes kind of D-man mostly with the exception of one playoff run.

    At Rexall it might qualify for hazard pay.

    Good point.

    He’d been deployed a lot like Goligoski or Yandle, lost of Ozone and softer ice.

    This year he’s not that guy and can’t turn and down the hole he goes.

  73. LMHF#1 says:

    Completely proper move to scratch Smyth. Well done. If he doesn’t like it, he can retire and I’d bet replace Buchberger or something.

    Whitney needs to get his head on straight and go see some specialist in Germany for some crazy foot treatment or something.

    Trade for a C and a D is still the solution . Time to move ahead.

  74. B S says:

    Bos8: I’m sorry.Sam is half the player his father was.Dave Gagner was a complete hockey player, his son not so much.

    Yep, all Gagner does is score, fight and now PK, what a useless one-dimensional player.

  75. LMHF#1 says:

    bookjLe:
    BlacqueJacque,

    Centres skate more than wingers – exhausted players take bad penalties.Anyway, even if it didn’t affect him, I would give him the opportunity at redemption in his regular position and the I would sit him if he didn’t redeem himself.

    2 things:

    - A good positional player at center would actually skate less than wingers. Especially one that is a supposedly wily veteran and knows his limitations.

    - Even if he’s exhausting himself, there’s still no excuse for the horrendous giveaways and being out of position on the PK, which are both bigger problems than the penalties.

  76. raventalon40 says:

    bookjLe:
    BlacqueJacque,

    Centres skate more than wingers – exhausted players take bad penalties.Anyway, even if it didn’t affect him, I would give him the opportunity at redemption in his regular position and the I would sit him if he didn’t redeem himself.

    I think that all those considerations are negated by the fact that Ryan Smyth and Whitney are veterans on this team. I don’t care if Whitney is goaltending, these are penatlies that either shouldn’t take when his team is trying to keep or gain momentum. He knows better – or should know better.

    Krueger is right. Smyth is one of my favourite players of all time but there is no room for feeling in this.

  77. raventalon40 says:

    B S: Yep, all Gagner does is score, fight and now PK, what a useless one-dimensional player.

    Plus Dave played in a completely different hockey era.

    I mean, can you imagine Malkin back then?

  78. Clay says:

    Man, Mark Spector’s obsession with trading Gagner borders on maniacal. He’s so in love with “big strong guys” he’d probably trade Gagner for JFJ + a 3rd round pick.

  79. B S says:

    Bos8: With that eight point game, how was his season otherwise.(Rhetorical)Hey, he got two points in two minutes the other night, how were the other 58 minutes?

    Funny how he got that point streak last season once he was playing center for the first time all season (and not winging Belanger or Horcoff). To your second point, by those standards the other 58 minutes were just as good as Hall, Ebs and Nuge.

  80. Woodguy says:

    Clay:
    Man, Mark Spector’s obsession with trading Gagner borders on maniacal.He’s so in love with “big strong guys” he’d probably trade Gagner for JFJ + a 3rd round pick.

    re: Spector being fixed on large men.

    Not that’s there anything wrong with that.

    He can play on my team.

    Also,

    RK rattling off Scoring Chance data from CLB game in the presser.

    Love it.

  81. raventalon40 says:

    Clay:
    Man, Mark Spector’s obsession with trading Gagner borders on maniacal.He’s so in love with “big strong guys” he’d probably trade Gagner for JFJ + a 3rd round pick.

    Honestly, I’ve never read Spector’s material. Who does he even write for?

  82. bookjLe says:

    RALPH KRUEGER HATES OLD PEOPLE

  83. godot10 says:

    Remember how the mainstream media could not help themselves but mention that Shawn Horcoff was earning $7 million dollars (even though his cap hit was only $5.5 million dollars).

    Notice how the mainstream media never mentions that Whitney is now the 2nd highest paid Oiler in actual dollars, and the highest paid defenseman at $5.5 million dollars.

    Why should Whitney be given soft minutes? He is being paid like a #1D this year.

    Why is he whining about not playing after an Oilers win?

    He’s complaining because he is now being a selfish bastard, because he knows every game he does not play and the buttery soft minutes Renney gave him, and the power play time, he is losing money and bargaining power next summer.

    But since Whitney is chummy with the mainstream media, he gets the kid glove treatment? Even though his is acting like a self-entitled selfish prima donna at the current moment.

  84. Ribs says:

    Looks like Hovinen just ousted Roy out of Oklahoma. Neato.

  85. raventalon40 says:

    godot10:
    Remember how the mainstream media could not help themselves but mention that Shawn Horcoff was earning $7 million dollars (even though his cap hit was only $5.5 million dollars).

    Notice how the mainstream media never mentions that Whitney is now the 2nd highest paid Oiler in actual dollars, and the highest paid defenseman at $5.5 million dollars.

    Why should Whitney be given soft minutes?He is being paid like a #1D this year.

    Why is he whining about not playing after an Oilers win?

    He’s complaining because he is now being a selfish bastard, because he knows every game he does not play and the buttery soft minutes Renney gave him, and the power play time, he is losing money and bargaining power next summer.

    But since Whitney is chummy with the mainstream media, he gets the kid glove treatment?Even though his is acting like a self-entitled selfish prima donna at the current moment.

    Send him to Boston.

  86. cabbiesmacker says:

    RMGS,

    I’d like to see

    LW to RW

    89 – 4 – 83

    64 – 93- 14

    Halls line gets the hard minutes. RNH’s get the soft zone starts.

  87. Bos8 says:

    Nothing says that Gagner can’t develop. If he does, great. PK is actually a good idea, give him some familiarity with the D zone.

    But after six years, he shouldn’t have to introduce himself to the goaltender.

    Iterating Gagner as a fighter is actually funny

  88. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I’m loving RK so much right now.

    He’s not being a dick, but he’s being firm and most importantly transparent and clear.

    More impressive to me than his handling of the team is his handling of the press. This conference is a statement:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=4&id=201074&cmpid=embed-share-video

    Not only is it irrelevant to me whether some emotions are bruised, I really don’t care if my decision disrupts a few of your media narratives. But, nevertheless, I will answer you questions and I will give you a through accounting of my decisions.

    I really liked how he handled Gregor’s questions about Whitney not drawing in after being outshot and about RNH’s performance. He handled them with deft authority.

  89. cabbiesmacker says:

    Roughneck:
    Long time ago at Cooke golf course in Prince Albert. Tall skinny kid shows up with some raider coaches. Im whacking a bucket on the range. they wander over and we give this kid a few pointers.
    They give him a three iron and he blasts it out the end of the range.
    Legend goes that its the first golf ball he ever hit.

    Modano’s not as welcome in PA as the old days I bet. Wonder if his dog still calls the shots??

    # Flake

  90. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: RK rattling off Scoring Chance data from CLB game in the presser.

    by line no less!

    the guy was on fire…

  91. jake70 says:

    I think RK’s approach (pressboxing) will affect the play of those who are not scratched as much, if not more than those who are. This would be a good thing. Start raising the floor.

  92. cabbiesmacker says:

    B S: Funny how he got that point streak last season once he was playing center for the first time all season (and not winging Belanger or Horcoff). To your second point, by those standards the other 58 minutes were just as good as Hall, Ebs and Nuge.

    Looks like Dave passed on his + – abilities to his boy.

  93. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: by line no less!

    the guy was on fire…

    He killed it in the presser.

    I’d run through the MSM at the buffet line for him!

  94. Woodguy says:

    godot10:
    Remember how the mainstream media could not help themselves but mention that Shawn Horcoff was earning $7 million dollars (even though his cap hit was only $5.5 million dollars).

    Notice how the mainstream media never mentions that Whitney is now the 2nd highest paid Oiler in actual dollars, and the highest paid defenseman at $5.5 million dollars.

    Why should Whitney be given soft minutes?He is being paid like a #1D this year.

    Why is he whining about not playing after an Oilers win?

    He’s complaining because he is now being a selfish bastard, because he knows every game he does not play and the buttery soft minutes Renney gave him, and the power play time, he is losing money and bargaining power next summer.

    But since Whitney is chummy with the mainstream media, he gets the kid glove treatment?Even though his is acting like a self-entitled selfish prima donna at the current moment.

    He’s a great quote, and you don’t piss off a great quote or else they stop being a great quote.

    Honestly, I’d do the same if I was MSM, its your bread and butter.

    .

  95. Woodguy says:

    Ribs:
    Looks like Hovinen just ousted Roy out of Oklahoma. Neato.

    This organization letting a waiver pick up take the spot of a draft pick is new and awesome.

    I’m liking the decision making at many levels in the org.

  96. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: He killed it in the presser.

    I’d run through the MSM at the buffet line for him!

    The way he takes easy narrative questions and answers them is amazing.

    1. following Whitney’s suggestion (since they were outshot 40-14 with him out, why doesn’t he play) Gregor asks (rather passive aggressively) for RK to justify himself: instead he argues

    a. we were playing with the lead the whole game, distorting the picture
    b. we were PKing most of the game
    c. we looked at the tape and the forward group was liable on most of the scoring chances against

    a fucking thorough destruction of a simple narrative.

    2. RNH is having trouble scoring, what do you do to pump his tires?

    a. he outchanced the top opposition 7-3
    b. he’s a 2-way monster now
    c. he’ll get it going off the PP and be back to basics.

    he’s running laps on this stuff! He responds to simple premises with factual knowledge and reasonable expectations. He doesn’t accept pat, trite BS.

  97. CrazyCoach says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Not only is it irrelevant to me whether some emotions are bruised, I really don’t care if my decision disrupts a few of your media narratives. But, nevertheless, I will answer you questions and I will give you a through accounting of my decisions.

    It would be interesting to see who placed RK on the pedestal back when he he was hired. Chances are, they are the ones sharpening their knives right now.

    Coaching rule #32856

    I like the way RK handles things.

  98. jonrmcleod says:

    Classic tweet from Nail Yakupov:

    #BellLetsTalk But I don’t know , what is that for :D

  99. Ducey says:

    Bos8: I’m sorry.Sam is half the player his father was.Dave Gagner was a complete hockey player, his son not so much.

    How old were you in 1988? I am guessing about four. I seriously doubt you saw him play at the same age Sam is now.

  100. Ducey says:

    Bos8:
    Nothing says that Gagner can’t develop.If he does, great.PK is actually a good idea, give him some familiarity with the D zone.

    But after six years, he shouldn’t have to introduce himself to the goaltender.

    Iterating Gagner as afighter is actually funny

    Gagner is averaging 1.60 per game on the PK. You sure you are not named Spector?

  101. bookjLe says:

    Good thing that MacT chose to hire Ralph Krueger and the didn’t let Tambellini in the room. I heard he wanted to rehire Pat Quinn.

  102. Kris11 says:

    Bookjle thinks the evidence is unclear about whether Tambellini is a good GM.

    Good grief, Charlie Brown.

  103. cabbiesmacker says:

    #94 takes a seat

    #6 takes a seat…again

    MSM bitching about #94′s play and the teams shots for

    Everyone in Oilerland up in arms after a 3-1 win

    Sounds like some upwards pointing arrows to me.

    Just have to hope Moe, Larry, and Curly are paying attention to what RK is really saying

  104. Bos8 says:

    Ducey: Gagner is averaging 1.60 per game on the PK.You sure you are not named Spector?

    Wouldn’t know Spector if I tripped on him. As to age, sorry, I’m from the old dog school. Dave Gagner was a hell of a two way hockey player. His son isn’t. He is what he is. Can he get better? Sure, always nice to see.

  105. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: The way he takes easy narrative questions and answers them is amazing.

    1. following Whitney’s suggestion (since they were outshot 40-14 with him out, why doesn’t he play) Gregor asks (rather passive aggressively) for RK to justify himself: instead he argues

    a. we were playing with the lead the whole game, distorting the picture
    b. we were PKing most of the game
    c. we looked at the tape and the forward group was liable on most of the scoring chances against

    a fucking thorough destruction of a simple narrative.

    2. RNH is having trouble scoring, what do you do to pump his tires?

    a. he outchanced the top opposition 7-3
    b. he’s a 2-way monster now
    c. he’ll get it going off the PP and be back to basics.

    he’s running laps on this stuff! He responds to simple premises with factual knowledge and reasonable expectations. He doesn’t accept pat, trite BS.

    Agreed all points.

    Like Tyler mentioned on twitter, RK talks in paragraphs and not talking points/bs.

    Took every narrative head on and shut em down.

    With no apologies or prisoners.

    Love it!

  106. godot10 says:

    Bos8: Wouldn’t know Spector if I tripped on him.As to age, sorry, I’m from the old dog school.Dave Gagner was a hell of a two way hockey player.His son isn’t.He is what he is.Can he get better?Sure, always nice to see.

    Dave Gagner was only becoming an NHL regular at 23. He was still a few ways away from being a two-way player.

    Arguably, Sam is a fair ways ahead of where Dave was at the same age.

  107. LMHF#1 says:

    Woodguy:

    Like Tyler mentioned on twitter, RK talks in paragraphs and not talking points/bs.

    Actually, this is the use of solid talking points by a capable speaker. You don’t even notice they were used but get the message they intended.

  108. Bos8 says:

    godot10: Dave Gagner was only becoming an NHL regular at 23.He was still a few ways away from being a two-way player.

    Arguably, Sam is a fair ways ahead of where Dave was at the same age.

    And aguably not.

    Actually considering Sam’s background, growing up in a hockey family, I’ve always been surprised at his play in the D Zone.

  109. BlacqueJacque says:

    Bos8,

  110. cabbiesmacker says:

    Bos8: Wouldn’t know Spector if I tripped on him.

    He was the reporter who took it upon himself to write incessant stories about Jason Arnott’s personal life while he was here.

    For that alone he is a complete tool.

  111. cabbiesmacker says:

    Bos8:

    Actually considering Sam’s background, growing up in a hockey family, I’ve always been surprised at his play in the D Zone.

    Dave was about -294 through his career so you shouldn’t be really.

  112. Jordan says:

    I see the trend here people:

    Ryan Jones out – Eye Injury
    Ryan Whitney out – HS
    Ryan Smyth out – HS
    Ryan Struggling – shoulder injuries

    Conclusion:
    Ralph Krueger hates Ryans.

    What do you want to bet Darcy’s middle name is Ryan?

  113. BlacqueJacque says:

    Bos8,

    We get it, you’re going to find every excuse to pick on Sam. Your mind is made up and you’re not interested in discussing, only arguing. May I point you to HFB and the circle jerks going there?

    The one thing I value above all here are the open minds. If someone says a point is arguable – like Sam’s development – then still proceeds to continue making flat, confident statements and acting as if his position is solid, we are no longer discussing.

  114. CrazyCoach says:

    Bos8: Actually considering Sam’s background, growing up in a hockey family, I’ve always been surprised at his play in the D Zone.

    I don’t think Maurice Richard Jr. quite has dad’s skill set or intensity either, and I wonder if class seems to escape Gretzky’s daughter’s vocabulary?

  115. Zipdot says:

    godot10: Bos8: Wouldn’t know Spector if I tripped on him.As to age, sorry, I’m from the old dog school.Dave Gagner was a hell of a two way hockey player.His son isn’t.He is what he is.Can he get better?Sure, always nice to see.

    Dave Gagner was only becoming an NHL regular at 23. He was still a few ways away from being a two-way player.

    Arguably, Sam is a fair ways ahead of where Dave was at the same age.

    Burn!

  116. denny33 says:

    RMGS,

    I don’t think the mainstream media will complain too much about the move, but here’s a thought. Should the team not start winning soon, Edmonton’s sports “journalists” will turn on Krueger. His (rational) roster decisions will be questioned increasingly as will his reluctance to go along with conventional wisdom, e.g. “the kids need protection, dammit!”

    Well, yes, if RK keeps playing Ryan Whitney there will be questions…

    The rest of the league is watching and staring in disbelief at Ryan Whitney…

    Opposition coaches and players are just grinning..

  117. Bos8 says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Bos8,

    We get it, you’re going to find every excuse to pick on Sam.Your mind is made up and you’re not interested in discussing, only arguing.May I point you to HFB and the circle jerks going there?

    The one thing I value above all here are the open minds.If someone says a point is arguable – like Sam’s development – then still proceeds to continue making flat, confident statements and acting as if his position is solid, we are no longer discussing.

    Oy

    Woah. Relax guys

    I said Gagner was weak defensively compared to his father. Now I’m taking on the whole board. As I’ve said before – if he improves, great. Always like to see a player develop. As remarks are directed at me, I feel it’s polite to answer.

    That’s what a discussion is; you make your points, others make their’s – voila, discussion. As Gagner’s career evolves, someone will be righter, others wronger. No biggie.

    Being critical of Gagner’s play in his own zone is no vendetta. Didn’t even take cheap shots re FOs as I feel that wingers bear responsibility as well.

  118. denny33 says:

    Coach – I have to give him kudos – sitting Whitney again and scratching Smyth.

    I think I like this guy….

  119. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    “Now I’m taking on the whole board”

    Bos8,

    No. Just the space-time continuum. Unless you’ve popped into 2013-14 for a visit recently you stll can’t compare to Dave’s first positive +- year.

    11-12 Edmonton Oilers 75G 18-29-47 +5
    86-87 New York Rangers 10G 1-4-5 -1

    12-13 Edmonton Oilers 12G 4-9-13 -1
    87-88 Minnesota North Stars 51G 8-11-19 -14

  120. Woodguy says:

    Bos8,

    This is Sam Gagner’s 23 year old year.

    Here’s Dave’s 23 year old year:

    1987-88 Kalamazoo Wings IHL 14 16 10 26 26
    1987-88 Minnesota North Stars NHL 51 8 11 19 55 -14

  121. pboy says:

    Clay: Man, Mark Spector’s obsession with trading Gagner borders on maniacal. He’s so in love with “big strong guys” he’d probably trade Gagner for JFJ + a 3rd round pick.

    Gagner + a 3rd rounder for JFJ

    I fixed that for ya!

  122. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    Woodguy,

    Currently above a ppg and at -1 covering the defensive vet Yakupov.

  123. CrazyCoach says:

    DENNY33,

    It’s all accountability for RK. You do well for the team, you get a pass. You don’t perform due to declining skills, age, or tiredness, take some time in the PB to rest and think it over. The difficulty lies in not making it a personal issue outside of a personnel issue.

    RK takes the hot stove rule: A hot stove gives fair warning, is indiscriminate, and its correction is immediate.

  124. Bos8 says:

    Guys, guys cherry picking stats should be beneath you.

    I actually broke down, went back and looked it up. The following year Dave was +13.

    Look, the last game on the SH goal. An excellent play by Gagner all around, Read the situation and reacted, then went up ice and made a great pass into the slot. This shows what he is capable of. A few more of those and I will be singing “Hosannas”.

    He’s known as a good thinker on offense. This should translate on defense. Defense is reading the play and limiting your opponent’s options

  125. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    Bos8,

    Cherry picking? I specifically mentioned that year as being comparable to Sam’s 2013-14 year. Comparing to a future year for Sam adds a whole new dimension to cherry picking. Time travel.

    Here’s the whole sequence of future years for Sam to beat:
    +13 -1 +9 -4 -13 +13 +2 -17 -2 +2 -21 -7 -9

  126. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    We can cherry pick a run of +2 for Dave if we throw out his early years and his last 3 years

    +13 -1 +9 -4 -13 +13 +2 -17 -2 +2

  127. 48 percent body fat says:

    I absolutely love how we mock the management trades. It shows in our hypothetical trade scenarios.

    We trade away the best player in the trade and then throw in a pick all for a bigger player who produces less. This is the formula for every mock trade idea and idiotic serious trade proposal on oilers sites.

    ie. Gagner + a 3rd for JFJ. Great line. Hemsky + 4th for A. Stewart.

    Also has anyone else had troubles with the oilers organization in regards to season ticket account. My friend and I split tickets for 7 years (all losing years BTW). He is out next year, but because I am not the primary and only secondary ticket guy I can not take over the ticket. I get the whole ticket line up thing, but payments over the 7 dismal years have come from his and my credit card and I have been on the account for years. Now if he wants out I lose all. F#@#$#@#$ THEM! Any ideas, other than quoting how I supported this team while they were a complete pile of shit,

  128. Clay says:

    pboy,

    Cheers!

  129. ASkoreyko says:

    Bos8:
    Guys, guys cherry picking stats should be beneath you.

    I actually broke down, went back and looked it up.The following year Dave was +13.

    Look, the last game on the SH goal.An excellent playby Gagner all around,Read the situation and reacted, then went up ice and made a great pass into the slot.This shows what he is capable of.A few more of those and I will be singing“Hosannas”.

    He’s known as a good thinker on offense.This should translate on defense.Defense is reading the play and limiting your opponent’s options

    Did you take a peek at the two years following that?

    I admire your willingness to die on a hill, I just would of picked a better hill.

  130. BlacqueJacque says:

    Bos8,

    Weak defensively compared to his father at what age? I’ve been watching Oiler hockey since ’86, and watching it intently since the Marchant goal. I honestly still couldn’t tell you which season exactly Smytty developed his two-way game, or when it was that Doug Weight answered all those questions about whether or not he was a number one centre or a second assist guy. Shit blurs together with age and most of us here are old enough that we all know that.

    A quick look at stats shows that at Sam’s current age, Dave was just finally starting to establish himself as a full-timer in the NHL and had 19 points in 51 games and a -14 rating on a not-that-bad North Stars squad. Keeping in mind these are the high-scoring late 80s and 90s before refs forgot what a hooking call was in ’95, and the North Stars were stacking young talent, those are some weak numbers.

    Gagner may be in his sixth season, but he has shown significant progress – this year in particular – and most of us are preaching patience for a reason. He’s 23. The development book is nearing the end for Gagner, but not for a year or two at least.

    For now, Sam is fine. His two-way game needs work, but considering that at the same age his dad’s offensive abilities weren’t even close and defensive game was likely no better (or he’d have had a roster spot), you’re going to need to do better than blurred memories of multiple seasons of Gagner to convince us his son is now and forever will be a net negative player.

    sorry for the spiel. I enjoy lecturing too much and I apologize if my tone is too arrogant.

  131. refmaksy says:

    pboy: Lest we forget about that fuckstick Benoit Hogue…….how many big goals did he score in the playoffs?

    April, 2003, during Anaheim’s run to the cup, I found myself in Boston visiting my brother. We hit a club and one minute Chavez is doing shooters with a cute girl and 90 minutes later she’s outside throwing up on the sidewalk. Benoit Hogue walks over and says “guys, what the f**k is going on here? Get her a cab and send her home.” Experienced play, i was impressed with both his zone awareness and his execution. When I later told him how much I hated him for scoring on the Oil in overtime circa 1998, he said “I always loved playing those Oilers, I scored so many goals against those poor guys”. Funny stories.

    I can’t end there…. the next night in Boston I sat beside some hockey player at a bar, he was cheering for Detroit against Anaheim, calling them “my team.” I said “if that’s your team what are you doing here?” He said “oh, I just got traded from them at the deadline.” I said “I’m Brian.” He said “I’m Sean Avery”. Before he was famous, if you know what I mean.

    Maksy.

  132. Lowetide says:

    Bob Brooke was the checking C on those teams, so Gagner would have been in a more prominent offensive role, similar to Sam.

    When we look at those old stats, the key is how many goals the team and league scored. In the 89-90 season (Dave Gagner was 25), Gagner scored 40 but Bellows had 55 for the same team and they scored 284 in a league that averaged 295 goals.

    Last season, Sam scored 18 but Eberle had 34 on a team that scored 212 in a league that averaged 224. Samwise was 22. Dave’s bell curve was a blip at 22.

    But there’s miles to go. I’d bet all my money on Sam, though.

  133. bookjLe says:

    Woodguy: This organization letting a waiver pick up take the spot of a draft pick is new and awesome.

    I’m liking the decision making at many levels in the org.

    You would – typical management shill as usual.

  134. Ducey says:

    I think that Dave Gagner in his early years got all the lack of respect Sam gets.

    Look at what he was traded for: N.Y. Rangers traded Gagner and Jay Caufield to Minnesota in exchange for Jari Gronstrand and Paul Boutilier on October 8, 1987. Gronstrand played one season for the Rangers. Boutilier played 18 games for them over two seasons.

    Apparently Dave thought about quitting hockey all together in 1987 after he was sent back to the minors. His wife convinced him to hang in there. You can bet Sam heard that story once or twice.

  135. Woodguy says:

    bookjLe: You would – typical management shill as usual.

    Wearing my pin with pride sir.

  136. "Steve Smith" says:

    Ducey: You can bet Sam heard that story once or twice.

    To get him through all that time he spent riding buses in the minors?

  137. Lowetide says:

    Scott Howson has been fired by Columbus. Doug MacLean pours a drink.

  138. Lois Lowe says:

    Lowetide:
    Scott Howson has been fired by Columbus. Doug MacLean pours a drink.

    Do the Oilers bring him back a la MacT? I think not, but I have learned that nothing in this life is certain.

  139. bookjLe says:

    Lois Lowe: Do the Oilers bring him back a la MacT?I think not, but I have learned that nothing in this life is certain.

    Special Senior Advisor to The General Manager of the President of Hockey Operations Office.

  140. Lowetide says:

    Lois Lowe: Do the Oilers bring him back a la MacT?I think not, but I have learned that nothing in this life is certain.

    No, I think they’ve already got their Mount Rushmore.

  141. Clay says:

    Interesting timing on Howson.

    He was handed the keys to a broken down ’83 Chev 1/2 ton and asked to race the Dakar rally.

  142. Ducey says:

    They go out and crush the Sharks 6-2, and then their GM is fired. Message sent. Now all they need is a GM who can win the lottery.

  143. Woodguy says:

    Bos8,

    Guys, guys cherry picking stats should be beneath you.
    I actually broke down, went back and looked it up. The following year Dave was +13.

    So I compare Sam and Dave in their same age year and you come back with info from Dave’s 24 year old year and accuse me of cherry picking stats.

    As long as were on the same page then.

  144. Lowetide says:

    Kekelainen has always been a favorite of mine for his draft success. In St. Louis,he drafted David Backes, Erik Johnson, Roman Polak, David Perron, T.J. Oshie, Patrik Berglund and Alex Pietrangelo. In Ottawa he was instrumental in selecting Ray Emery, Christoph Schubert, Jason Spezza, Antoine Vermette and Anton Volchenkov. Earlier he acted as the club’s European scout for four seasons and during that tenure, the team drafted Martin Havlat and Marian Hossa.

  145. Woodguy says:

    Clay:
    Interesting timing on Howson.

    He was handed the keys to a broken down ’83 Chev 1/2 ton and asked to race the Dakar rally.

    Trading for Jack Johnson is a firing offense.

    Effectively trading Voracek and Couturier is a death penalty.

    Here’s Jack Johnson’s Vollman’s in all thier gory glory (NOTE: problem with bubble color, they are all blue, but if you hover you’ll see they are negative and should be orange. I asked the Ninja about this and its a bug in some graphs. Always hover to confirm blue=positive and orange=negative)

    http://www.somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2012_s%2B2012_p%2B2011_s%2B2011_p%2B2010_s%2B2010_p%2B2009_s%2B2009_p%2B2008_s%2B2008_p%2B2007_s%2B2007_p&f2=5v5&f3=Jack+Johnson&f5=&f4=&f7=&update-filters=Update+Results

  146. VanOil says:

    Random thoughts on the thread so far;

    Ralph is sitting a bottom 2 D man and a bottom 6 forward. One old, one broken and neither core players. What’s the big deal. Hopefully they both come back refreshed and better.

    Don’t look now but Samwise is a 200 pounder. He has damn near has Obese BMI. Maybe he is rather muscular or is this basketball and only height matters? How was his mother at faceoffs when she was 23?

    Why is Shultz Jr’s amazing defensive play v. CLB not on any (better yet every) highlight real? Does anyone know where a clip can be found I was trying to show it to Vancouver fans yesterday and could not find it.

    Some jobs are a poison challis. Not so in Columbus. Some dumb ass tried to sell Jack LeMaire hockey to a new market. Something that might not sell tickets in Winnipeg or Edmonton. To fix this you are gifted 3 first round picks. You would have to be a monumental idiot or Sportsnet presenter to screw this up.

    Love Jammie Jagr, hate Dallas.

  147. gogliano says:

    Pretty sure Gagner has strong, muscular legs that add to his BMI. Could swear I heard that once.

  148. Captain Happy says:

    gogliano:
    Pretty sure Gagner has strong, muscular legs that add to his BMI.Could swear I heard that once.

    Is that you Pierre?

  149. Ducey says:

    Lowetide: Kekelainen has always been a favorite of mine for his draft success. In St. Louis,he drafted David Backes, Erik Johnson, Roman Polak, David Perron, T.J. Oshie, Patrik Berglund and Alex Pietrangelo. In Ottawa he was instrumental in selecting Ray Emery, Christoph Schubert, Jason Spezza, Antoine Vermette and Anton Volchenkov. Earlier he acted as the club’s European scout for four seasons and during that tenure, the team drafted Martin Havlat and Marian Hossa.

    It likely won’t matter who the “GM” is. John Davidson is and will be running the show.

  150. bookjLe says:

    Just for fun

    Ryan Smyth Vollman

    vs

    Ethan Moreau Vollman

    Better scroll over the ‘blue’ Circles as one players are all negative.

  151. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Kekelainen has always been a favorite of mine for his draft success. In St. Louis,he drafted David Backes, Erik Johnson, Roman Polak, David Perron, T.J. Oshie, Patrik Berglund and Alex Pietrangelo. In Ottawa he was instrumental in selecting Ray Emery, Christoph Schubert, Jason Spezza, Antoine Vermette and Anton Volchenkov. Earlier he acted as the club’s European scout for four seasons and during that tenure, the team drafted Martin Havlat and Marian Hossa.

    Wow.

    Nice resume.

  152. Rebilled says:

    Mike ‘Open Mouth’ Modano.

    Never seen a picture of that guy with his mouth shut. Don’t think he could close it.

  153. BlacqueJacque says:

    Lowetide:
    Kekelainen has always been a favorite of mine for his draft success. In St. Louis,he drafted David Backes, Erik Johnson, Roman Polak, David Perron, T.J. Oshie, Patrik Berglund and Alex Pietrangelo. In Ottawa he was instrumental in selecting Ray Emery, Christoph Schubert, Jason Spezza, Antoine Vermette and Anton Volchenkov. Earlier he acted as the club’s European scout for four seasons and during that tenure, the team drafted Martin Havlat and Marian Hossa.

    Were you responding to anyone in particular? That’s just the most random (and somewhat amazing) factoid in this thread.

    Hire him :o

  154. Lowetide says:

    BlacqueJacque: lol, no I always followed him, and thought he’d be STL GM at some point.

  155. BlacqueJacque says:

    Rebilled:
    Mike ‘Open Mouth’ Modano.

    Never seen a picture of that guy with his mouth shut. Don’t think he could close it.

    I have an unreasoning hatred of mouthbreathers. Every time I saw a picture of Modano in an NHL game or on TV, he’d always have that open mouth.

    So one time I’m sitting with my girlfriend-at-the-time watching the Stars dismantle the Oilers and a stat pic of Modano comes up, his mouth open, giant front teeth gaping, and I exclaim “That is one ugly mother******, even by hockey player standards.” My girlfriend gets indignant and says “no way, he’s hot. You wish you were that hot!” “THAT mouthbreather is hot? Are you effin serious?!” … we actually broke up over Modano for a couple of hours.

  156. prairieschooner says:

    I am getting tired of Spectors voice and his constant laughing (annoying)
    Doug Mac lean asked him a good question today. “which 2nd line centre would you replace Sam Gagner with?”
    You would have heard crickets if Spec hadn’t blustered a response.
    Mac Lean told him to be careful what you wish for.
    Why are we looking to dump our 23 year old centre?
    Who would you trade Gags for ?

  157. DenverOilFan says:

    I was just listening to the pre-game on CHED and missed what Stauffer was saying exactly, but he mentioned that Krueger was sending a message to one of the players — but I don’t know who or why. Did anyone catch that and what happened?

  158. VanOil says:

    Dallas feed just picked each team leading scorers as ones to watch in the game. Samwise V. Jagr. Wow that is incredible. Was Dad ever compared to Gretzky in pre game shows in the 80s?

  159. Lowetide says:

    DenverOilFan:
    I was just listening to the pre-game on CHED and missed what Stauffer was saying exactly, but he mentioned that Krueger was sending a message to one of the players — but I don’t know who or why. Did anyone catch that and what happened?

    Likely HS Ryan Smyth.

  160. BlacqueJacque says:

    Hey look, the kids know how to chip the puck in now.

    Only stood up at the blue line for 6 games straight.

    Leads to a good opportunity for Hall.

  161. BlacqueJacque says:

    Woo, this #2 unit has some chemistry! About time. Great pass through the crease by Hemsky.

  162. VanOil says:

    They are shooting on the PP. Or at least Yak and Hall are. Good things

  163. Woodguy says:

    good start

    Good entries

    Good exits

    Notice the F are getting lower in the Dzone coverage.

    I like it

  164. hunter1909 says:

    Why do I get this feeling both teams are wearing the wrong uniforms?

    Losing Whitney’s whining arsed schtick is worth a 1-0 opening faceoff advantage alone.

  165. 48 percent body fat says:

    Gags been hanging around Fisty lately.

  166. Rebilled says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Funny. I broke up with a girl briefly because she made me miss The Cult as an opening act. Not really even that big of a fan. It was the principe.

  167. striatic says:

    Dubnyk has really improved his lateral movement on the PK.

  168. BlacqueJacque says:

    Haha Fistric and Smid play ping-pong with Morrow in front of the net.

    Too bad Smid ended up out of position on that Benn chance. Probably tired after a 90 second PK shift though.

  169. Lowetide says:

    Yakupov made a freaky pass there.

  170. BlacqueJacque says:

    BAHAHAHA my GOD what a ridiculous goal by Hall.

    Jesus one on three, fires it in and scores. Seriously he is the only Oiler in the offensive zone.

  171. Derek says:

    Jesus what a release.

  172. VanOil says:

    Sick, Sick goal

  173. Lowetide says:

    Hall is such a beauty. Whack whack whack goal.

  174. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Does RK read this blog. More soft dumps off the side boards in this period than all other games. Hall! LT promised us those were going to start going in!

  175. Lowetide says:

    Hall (eberle)

    They’re starting to wheel now.

  176. fuzzy muppet says:

    Thats some puck luck. Lehtonen should be ashamed

  177. 48 percent body fat says:

    “Taylor Hall doesn’t eat ice cream cones, he scores goals!” pierre macquire

  178. franksterra says:

    That was like Iginla in his prime.

  179. Derek says:

    Chip and chase plays, winger wins on the faceoff, effective breakouts and special teams, physical play. This almost looks like an NHL hockey team.

  180. Rebilled says:

    Did that goal go off their D?

  181. BlacqueJacque says:

    48 percent body fat:
    “Taylor Hall doesn’t eat ice cream cones, he scores goals!”pierre macquire

    Did he say that?! Pierre is just imagining Hall eating an ice cream cone. Licking it, slowly. While in 80s basketball shorts, flexing his big, strong, muscular legs, like some sort of monster.

  182. franksterra says:

    Rebilled,

    no, straight in along the ice I think

  183. OilLeak says:

    48 percent body fat:
    “Taylor Hall doesn’t eat ice cream cones, he scores goals!”pierre macquire

    Creepy. Sounds like another one of Mcguirre’s fantasies.

  184. 48 percent body fat says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    He said that during the world juniors when Hall played. Don’t remember the set up for the ice cream line, but I do remember this being around the time the Pierre Macquire drinking game came out. That one line got me smashed quickly.

  185. Rebilled says:

    I wonder if they’ll ever let Eberle draw an interference call.

  186. hunter1909 says:

    Yakupov = Woahohohohohohoho!

    Hall’s not bad either.

    Re: RK Reading This Blog: Of course he does. All the internet-savvy mgmt keep up to date, which means it’s probably RK only if watching the mgmt fiddling with the remote switch was anything to go by.

  187. tcho says:

    Remember – Hall, RNH, and Eberle have already peaked. ;-)

    Seriously – funniest comment of the season so far imo.

  188. delooper says:

    Was that an RNH passive dirty play there? Or was that an accident?

    Hasenfratz sounds like a word out of the Flintstones.

  189. BlacqueJacque says:

    Huh, well, looks like McGuire is only bi, not gay. He seems to be married to Skyler from Breaking Bad. http://www.themontrealeronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Pierre-McGuire-%E2%80%93-passionate-about-hockey-and-family-01-250×275.jpg

    I’d start complimenting Hall’s toned, long legs, too, if I had to put up with that kind of attitude.

  190. icecastles says:

    Blizzard = no satellite = no tv hockey. This isn’t fair.
    Guess it’s Jack Micheals for me… he’s actually pretty good as long as I manage to hit mute before he screams OILERS before the commercial breaks and the games don’t go to oooooooovertiiiiiiiime.

  191. 48 percent body fat says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    shit is that real. is he with her?

    EDIT: doesnt seem to be her but she is a dead ringer

  192. regwald says:

    wow, how things have changed with the goaltending situation. Sportsnet is spouting moving Khabi at the trade deadline. Go figure.

  193. BlacqueJacque says:

    tcho:
    Remember – Hall, RNH, and Eberle have already peaked.

    Seriously – funniest comment of the season so far imo.

    In a sense, Captain Depresses Some Fans is right – most scorers have their peak scoring seasons before age 25, often as early as 23 or 24. As a whole, for their overall development though as complete players, 25-30 seems to be the peak. Either players knowingly sacrifice some scoring to be in better position, or it’s a matter of slower reflexes being made up for by better experience.

    But… whether it’s Mario Lemieux, Gretzky, Yzerman, Bure – few score more after age 25. That doesn’t mean that they don’t get better as players, though. Injuries excepted.

  194. BlacqueJacque says:

    48 percent body fat,

    I don’t think it is, but the resemblance is uncanny, isn’t it? At least in that picture.

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