OILERS AT BLUES G32 (12-13) 26.3.13

I spent the day in Seattle with my wife and we had a wonderful time. About 4pm we got in the car and started heading back to Canada, with Fleetwood Mac on the car stereo. Sang along all the way to the border and into Richmond where my auntie and uncle told me about the tornado. They’d been trying to get through to my Mom and Dad for a long time when we got to their house on Udy road, but everyone must have been doing the same thing and we couldn’t get through.

Early the following morning, I talked to my Mom. She was very upset, my Dad refused to leave the apartment (they lived on the 10th floor at the Village at Southgate) and Mom finally had to go without him. I could hear the strain in her voice, the difficulty she’d gone through and there wasn’t one damn thing I could do about it.

When it comes to feeling helpless, that phone call was the gold standard until the day my wife gave birth to our son (and then two years later, our daughter). Sometimes in life you’re emotionally invested but don’t get a chance to impact the outcome, and sometimes that can be painful.

In our second installment of Steve Tambellini as GM, we have to remember the club was still looking to contend for the playoffs. There was no mention of rebuild, they were spending most of the cap and the idea was to win hockey games. However, between September 2009 and March 2010, the club did nothing to aid the fortunes of the hockey team and by the time the new year (2010) arrived, Darryl Katz had uttered the ‘rebuild’ word.

As galling as it is, the transactions below have to be viewed in such a way. The Oilers were gathering young assets and sending NHL players away. It would become a miserable fact for Oiler fans: the big event of the year was the NHL draft.

  1. March 1, 2010: Oilers trade D Denis Grebeshkov to Nashville for a 2010 2nd rd selection (Curtis Hamilton). Grebeshkov had some health issues that spring and was not able to help the Preds much. He did score 2 points in 2 playoff games for Nashville. Hamilton has been a disappointment, but a 2nd rd pick is a good return for a UFA of Grebeshkov’s calibre.
  2. March 3, 2010: Oilers claim R Ryan Jones off waivers from Nashville. I always thought this was part of the Grebs deal, but either way Jones has been solid for Edmonton since his arrival. His 37 Oiler goals have come from (mostly) the 3rd line, making him very productive from that slot in the order. Although I have my issues with Jones as a player, this is easily Tambellini’s best waiver pickup.
  3. March 3, 2010: Oilers trade Lubomir Visnovsky to Anaheim for D Ryan Whitney and a 6th rd draft pick (D Brandon Davidson). This is maybe the saddest day for me during the ST era, I loved Lubo so much. Whitney was terrific before losing many games and possibly a large portion of his career to injury. Lubo was so much fun for everyone but Pat Quinn. I have been told by enough people to believe that this trade was made by Kevin Lowe to believe it.
  4. March 3, 2010: Oilers trade D Steve Staios to Calgary for D Aaron Johnson and a 3rd rd pick (Travis Ewanyk). Staios had been a strong and loyal soldier for the Oilers, and the club got a pretty nice pick for him. In typical Staios fashion, he worked hard to deliver for his new team. The current Oilers could use a Steve Staios.
  5. June 22, 2010: Oilers elevate Tom Renney to head coach and move Pat Quinn to the mumble mumble department. I think this was one of the better moves during the ST era, Quinn’s Mairzy Doats press conferences were funny and charming but he was not an effective NHL coach in Edmonton.
  6. June 23, 2010: Oilers trade 2010 6th rd pick (Mirko Hoefflin) to Chicago for C Colin Fraser.  This trade worked out pretty well, as the Oilers cashed in with a productive 4line C for very little cost. Injuries would impact his Oiler career.
  7. June 26, 2010: Oilers trade C Riley Nash to Carolina for 46th overall selection (Martin Marincin). Nash took his time arriving in the NHL and is not yet established in the league (but has played 16 games and has 6 points this season). Marincin is progressing but will take some time. I don’t think there’s a clear winner at this time, and the positions (center-defense) are both important.
  8. June 28, 2010: Oilers do not tender offers to Marc Pouliot, Colin McDonald, Ryan Potulny, Bryan Lerg, Geoff Paukovich and Slava Trukhno. Edmonton’s depth would become an issue in the ensuing months and years, and late June 2010 saw the club offload a large number of young players. McDonald has emerged as an NHL player, while Pouliot and Potulny played in the NHL after leaving Edmonton.
  9. June 29, 2010: Oilers place Ethan Moreau, Patrick O’Sullivan and Robert Nilsson on waivers. Oilers further cleaned house with these moves, although Moreau was collected by Columbus and the club ended up dealing O’Sullivan to Phoenix for Jim Vandermeer. Either way, the team once again flushed players who had at least played in the NHL for nothing.
  10. July 1, 2010: Oilers sign D Kurtis Foster to a 2-year, $3.6M contract. It didn’t work out, but this signing looked good at the time and did address need.. Foster had played in ideal circumstances in the previous season and delivered, and his performance in Edmonton did not follow for various reasons.

The Oilers flushed many veterans and untold prospects and young pro’s, then installed a new coach and gave him Colin Fraser and Kurtis Foster. Only the Russians did scorched earth better. Up next, the rebuild’s biggest story.

ABOUT LAST NIGHT

  • Coach Krueger“Our five on five game just didn’t have enough passion to match what Nashville was coming with. It’s not enough to play in Nashville for 20 minutes. You have to come here and play 60 minutes. We didn’t do that and it’s a painful result.”

I’ve been very supportive of coach Krueger this season, for me he’s done a fine job of sussing out the roster and finding out who can play. Among his biggest positives are finding a role for Paajarvi, patience with the struggling Nuge, finding a second scoring line (which would have come anyway but this one looks very good) and using his entire roster.

However, the 4th line has been playing too much the entire season. Part of the problem with Eager and Brown and Petrell are playing too many even strength minutes. Especially last night, when getting a point was so vital. If there was ever a time to shorten the bench this is it. The Oilers need to ride the following players until they drop: Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Gagner, Yakupov, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Horcoff, Schultz the younger, Petry, Smid and Dubnyk. Starting now.

DEKEYSER SOZE?


The Oilers are apparently locked and loaded on Dan DeKeyser, the organization spending a lot of assets and brain power on wooing him to the great white north. Is anyone spending time working on a Ladislav Smid contract? Just asking. One hopes the Oilers can gather in DeKeyser, but that probably means two rookies (Soze and Klefbom) for 2013-14.

Are you all ready for this?

monroe

Some talk in the previous thread about the offense being poor among the Oilers top 6F’s. I honestly don’t see it. Gagner and Hall are having career seasons, Eberle has stepped back but is on par with what we established as reasonable back in the fall. Hemsky, J Schultz and Yakupov are contributing and Horcoff has 5 goals in 14 games. Magnus Paajarvi is having a comeback season, really all but the Nuge among the heart of the order are doing fine.

The Kids are Alright, folks.

 

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360 Responses to "OILERS AT BLUES G32 (12-13) 26.3.13"

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  1. leadfarmer says:

    How about this LT. Would you trade Yak for a top 3 pick in this years draft if you could select Jones. I think I would. I like Yak and he is going to have a good career, but this team cannot be built with a top 6 of Ebs, Gagner, and Yak. All 3 of them are good with the puck, but do little without the puck. They will all have great careers but should not be on one team.

    Looks like Yaks lack of coaching in junior is really showing ( multiple sources reported that he was told just to go out and score) and he doesnt know what to do without the puck.
    Plus this would fulfill the dream of oilers management of having a Jones-Klefbom top pairing next year.
    And for the love of God please stop trying to bring up Lander. He is not ready. Claim some waiver wire filler for the time being but Lander should be banned from the NHL until 2015.

  2. Woodguy says:

    Toilet bowl index.

    Every team in the NHL under .500

    WASHINGTON 0.484
    NY ISLANDERS 0.484
    PHOENIX 0.469
    BUFFALO 0.469
    EDMONTON 0.468
    CALGARY 0.467
    PHILADELPHIA 0.452
    TAMPA BAY 0.422
    COLORADO 0.419
    FLORIDA 0.364

    Oilers 25th and 26th is available tonight if CAL beats CHI after CHI loses late to LAK yesterday.

    If CAL doesn’t start Kipper they have a chance.

    If both CAL and PHI get a least a point tonight and EDM loses in regulation, then EDM will sit 27th.

    I’m hoping the Oilers do this as then 2 things will probably happen:

    1) They’ll get a pretty good C at the draft
    2) They’ll lose a historically awful GM

    Tambellini said finishing in bottom 5 is unacceptable and you cannot let him fire his 4th coach.

    As much as I grind on RK for being sub-optimal, he’s not the main problem.

    You can’t make chicken soup out of chicken shit and fully 10 regular Oilers are shitty NHL players.

    Also,

    I think the Oilers have almost no chance to win tonight.

    2nd of a back to back with the 2nd best possession vs 2nd worst possession team.

    Its almost guaranteed loss night.

    Only bright light is that RK pulled his head out of his ass in the 3rd periods and put these lines together:

    4-93-14
    91-89-64
    94-10-83
    Whatever

    Those lines are really close to What Mike Parkatti found were the optimal lines via shots percentage:

    http://www.boysonthebus.com/2013/03/10/optimizing-an-nhl-roster-edmonton-oilers-edition/

    Mike found that his optimal lines produced a 49.5% shot attempt percentage, almost 5% better than the Oiler average of 44.6% (at the time of writing, March 10)

    Given the dismal performance since the difference with those lines is probably even more pronounced.

    They certainly took it to NAS in the 3rd with those lines, but some of that is score effects.

    4-93-14 play a much different game together than apart. They should not be apart pretty much ever.

    So The Beak is giving his team a chance to win by putting close to optimal lines together, that is good.

    Unfortunately it sounds like 94 will play 4C so that line continues to be the black hole of everything where all scoring chances go to die.

    Also I expect Khabby to get the start and he was thoroughly meh vs. STL a few days ago.

    This should be an ass kicking by STL and given the starting D on EDM it probably will be, but I think the Oilers score a few tonight, just not enough to win.

    I hope the Oilers lose so they can be rid of Tambellini and I don’t have to hear the apologists to tell me to be patient next year when it might be 8 years out of the playoff.

  3. BlacqueJacque says:

    I think the fourth line’s ice time has a lot to do with the schedule.

    leadfarmer,

    I’d trade Eberle before Yak. Yak is going to be a phenomenal player and will drive the play like few wingers do. Eberle will be good-to-great.

  4. leadfarmer says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    I would too if you could get that as a return.

  5. russ99 says:

    I know we’re upset about the ineptitude of the front office and the overall weakness of the team, but if we trade any of the 5 kids, all that does is kick the rebuild down the road another two years, Islanders style.

    So enough with the trade Yak and trade Eberle talk. If anything, we should flush everyone else, (save Petry, Smid, Dubnyk and maybe Gagner) including the coaching staff, pro scouting and the management team.

  6. Woodguy says:

    Playoff standings:

    Western Conference

    CHICAGO 0.823
    ANAHEIM 0.750
    MINNESOTA 0.645
    VANCOUVER 0.625
    LOS ANGELES 0.594
    DETROIT 0.591
    ST LOUIS 0.581
    SAN JOSE 0.548
    ———————————-
    DALLAS 0.516
    NASHVILLE 0.515
    COLUMBUS 0.500
    PHOENIX 0.469
    EDMONTON 0.468
    CALGARY 0.467
    COLORADO 0.419

    I think we have our final 8 teams in the West.
    Big separation and SJS was suffering from terrible SH% after coming out of the gates with a ridiculously high SH%

    Eastern Conference
    PITTSBURGH 0.758
    BOSTON 0.726
    MONTREAL 0.726
    OTTAWA 0.636
    TORONTO 0.576
    NEW JERSEY 0.561
    WINNIPEG 0.545
    CAROLINA 0.533
    ————————————–
    NY RANGERS 0.532
    WASHINGTON 0.484
    NY ISLANDERS 0.484
    BUFFALO 0.469
    PHILADELPHIA 0.452
    TAMPA BAY 0.422
    FLORIDA 0.364

    3 way fight for the last two spots. 1 of which is the SE division title.

    I expect WIN to win the division. Enstrom just got back and he pushes every D down the chart (NOTE: INTERESTING CONCEPT, MAYBE THE OILERS SHOULD TRY TO GET GOOD D. EL-O-EL)

    CAR is without Ward for while .908 and Ellis now for 2 weeks. Justin Peter (.908 in 5 games) takes the starters job.

    Couple that with Corvo and Faulk being out and CAR should fade.

  7. Woodguy says:

    leadfarmer:
    How about this LT. Would you trade Yak for a top 3 pick in this years draft if you could select Jones. I think I would. I like Yak and he is going to have a good career, but this team cannot be built with a top 6 of Ebs, Gagner, and Yak. All 3 of them are good with the puck, but do little without the puck.They will all have great careers but should not be on one team.

    Looks like Yaks lack of coaching in junior is really showing ( multiple sources reported that he was told just to go out and score) and he doesnt know what to do without the puck.
    Plus this would fulfill the dream of oilers management of having a Jones-Klefbom top pairing next year.
    And for the love of God please stop trying to bring up Lander. He is not ready. Claim some waiver wire filler for the time being but Lander should be banned from the NHL until 2015.

    Yak will be beter than Eberle long term.

    Book it.

    The way he skates and shoots, it will come together soon.

  8. leadfarmer says:

    My point was that i dont think Ebs would get you a top 3 pick, Yak would. Trading one of them for another excellent piece is not kicking the rebuild down the road. Keeping the exact same three players that dont complement each other is kicking the rebuild down the road. Even St. Louis traded their lotto pick for better and better fitting assests ( I assume we will be on St.Louis model of building by the end of this year).

  9. spoiler says:

    No problem with the kids’ offense… I think you have misrepresented the concerns there, LT.

    Outscoring is the issue among the lines that play 50+ minutes of the game.

    The easiest way to solve it and where they’ve lagged is converting shots/chances, but it’s not the only way.

  10. Jordan says:

    However, the 4th line has been playing too much the entire season. Part of the problem with Eager and Brown and Petrell are playing too many even strength minutes. Especially last night, when getting a point was so vital. If there was ever a time to shorten the bench this is it. The Oilers need to ride the following players until they drop: Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Gagner, Yakupov, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Horcoff, Schultz the younger, Petry, Smid and Dubnyk. Starting now.

    You know LT, part of the problem that we are seeing with the makeup of this team is endurance. I think that a big part of this teams greatest flaw is the lack of physical and mental endurance necessary to compete at 100% for the full 2 1/2 hours of game time every night. Especially when they are not playing well, and trying to get back to 100% effort.

    I see this as being the biggest impediment to playing those players you name more. Giving them more minutes at this point is a very risky gamble from the development side. If they manage to figure it out enough to maintain their current level of performance, that would be a minor miracle. However, it seems a lot more likely to me (especially with the shortened season and less recovery time available overall) that playing them more will reduce their overall level of play, and make them more prone to errors and developing bad habits.

    I’m not arguing that the bottom end isn’t putrid. It is.

    But the solution to dealing with the putrid play isn’t to just play the snot out of the other players. It’s finding other effective players to play those minutes.

    On that note, I have a radical idea I’ve been considering. For all of your thought and review, I present:

    4 Scoring Lines

    I hear that Barkov kid would look really good centering our 4th scoring line.

  11. Ice Sage says:

    The Oilers organization needs a tornado.
    At this point, the team is not even entertainment.

    Maybe RK’s overplaying the 4th to send a message.

  12. sliderule says:

    Unlike a lot of you I don’t think our players are that bad.We have holes at center and top 4 D but so do lots of teams who are contending.

    The solution is coaching .

    We don’t line match.

    If we have a system please let me know because all I see is chaos

    We don’t seem to get players into position to perform to their ability.Example bizarre line combos and D pairings

    When RK confirmed they were playing for ties even in OT so they could get to a shootout that we are below average on my brain starts boiling.

    I know it’s been said we have changed coaches four times and that another is not the answer.We really haven’t changed coaches we have just been shuffling chairsBuchberger has been here all along ,Renney was an assistant with Quinn,Smith and Ralph were here with Renney.There has been no change.in the coaching.

    If you look at what new coaches have done for the Ducks and Senators you can see if they made the right choices it could be turned around.These two teams basically turned around with the same players.
    You can’t just hire someone new and say keep our assistants like they did with RK..Coaching requires input from assistants so the coach has to be responsible for hiring people he feels best qualified to help him.
    Mr Katz please take action.

  13. Woodguy says:

    Here’s a team that finished 10th in EC in 05/06

    Lots of skill up front.

    Dog shit at the bottom of the F’s

    Dog shit D.

    Reasonable good young G.

    Ilya Kovalchuk
    Marc Savard
    Marian Hossa
    Vyacheslav Kozlov
    Peter Bondra
    Scott Mellanby
    Bobby Holik
    Patrik Stefan
    Serge Aubin
    Jim Slater
    Ronald Petrovicky
    Brad Larsen
    Jean-Pierre Vigier
    Eric Boulton

    Jaroslav Modry
    Greg De Vries
    Niclas Havelid
    Andy Sutton
    Steve McCarthy
    Garnet Exelby
    Shane Hnidy

    Kari Lehtonen
    Michael Garnett

    Thrashers finished 10th that year.

    Oilers would be over-achieving to finish 10th.

    Don Waddell >>>>>> Steve Tambellini

  14. Woodguy says:

    spoiler:
    No problem with the kids’ offense… I think you have misrepresented the concerns there, LT.

    Outscoring is the issue among the lines that play 50+ minutes of the game.

    The easiest way to solve it and where they’ve lagged is converting shots/chances, but it’s not the only way.

    So what’s the other ways?

  15. cabbiesmacker says:

    leadfarmer,

    IMO you don’t trade provens, especially young ones for draft picks. I’d bet the % of times that works out for the team giving up the proven is small.

    Only time I’d consider it is if the draft pick is landing you a guaranteed stud which I don’t consider Jones to be. Then we sit back and wait for the 3 – 5 years required to learn the craft?

    Oilers need to tweek the top 9. Requires 2 additions imo.

    LW = Hall, Paajarvi, XXX

    RW = Eberle, Hemsky, Yak – no xxx required

    C = RNH, Gagner, and I guess Horcoff – XXX required

    Go after one Lw and one C that can push the above down a notch and the Oilers are competitive vs other top 9′s. As they stand now they aren’t close.

    I think Hemsky (a top 9 forward) is likely the player to be traded when the dust clears and that’s a shame when the team is close to having a solid top 9 that would compete against any next year (with a couple of additions).

    Delete any of 4, 93, 14, 83, 89, 64 and you lengthen the needs list.

  16. rich says:

    Agree with Woodguy’s comments – another loss, puts this team closer to a bottom 5 finish. Tambellini said it’s unacceptable and that’s something I agree with completely.

    Can’t believe he’d be given a chance to fire a 4th coach, at some point he has to be held accountable. Here’s hoping that Lowe is also held accountable as well.

    At that point it’s not about patience, it’s about incompetence. Other than adding highly skilled players at the top, the Oilers have not adequately addressed the imbalances and Lowe/Tambellini have not shown they can do this effectively.

    Lowe must go.
    Tambi too.

  17. Clay says:

    Woodguy:

    If both CAL and PHI get a least a point tonight and EDM loses in regulation, then EDM will sit 27th.

    I’m hoping the Oilers do this as then 2 things will probably happen:

    1) They’ll get a pretty good C at the draft
    2) They’ll lose a historically awful GM

    If #2 actually happens, I will count this season a success. Problem is, it won’t. For Tambo to be fired, it would mean Lowe would have to make a “good decision”. I just don’t see that as possible.

    But let’s say it happens. Then we get Howson as the new GM? Christ on a cupcake, what did the fans of this team do to deserve this perpetual numb-nuttedness?

    In my opinion, until this situation starts hurting Katz’ bottom line, nothing of any import will change. As long as fans keep selling out games and buying jerseys, why would he care? He’s a businessman, and business has never been better.

  18. Hammers says:

    Woodguy,

    Totally agree especially as related to Tambellini.

  19. Bos8 says:

    I would suggest that the team is out of gas. They have nothing left in the tank.. The young kids don’t have the stamina and don’t know how to pace themselves. Add a few nagging injuries and there you have it – Voiler. This shortened season has been a killer. Kreuger is aware of this and is playing the fourth line more than he would like. When your best two way center is Horcoff, that’s the writing on the wall.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I am really pulling for a loss tonight so we can finally put to bed this ridiculous notion that the Oil have a shot at the Playoffs this year.

    Once that emotional commitment is eroded, the conversations around the Oil can re-focus on the draft, management, deadline and off-season acquisitions.

    Right now it’s like we’re a bunch of guys at some promotional gathering for some crappy American beer (take your pick) and we are all extremely distracted by the Kate Upton look-alike paid to pretend she is interested in us with her coy giggling. Really, we are just waiting for her time-card to run out so the fantasy can mercifully end and we can collectively realize we’ve been drinking Coors Lite for 3 hours.

  21. HugThePost says:

    I’ve been having terrible flashbacks to the days of George Burnett, Skyreach Centre, Scott Pearson, etc.

    At least back then, there was the excuse of a small market team strapped for $$, fighting the good fight against the big rich teams.

    We don’t have that excuse anymore. Tambo has been given the keys to a high performance car and has gone ahead and slapped on the shittiest shit tires to it and ridden the clutch all around town.

    Here’s hoping that we will soon see empty seats like we saw in the mid ’90s so that finally this farce of an organization will realize that only entertaining competitive hockey sells around here.

  22. cabbiesmacker says:

    Bos8:
    Add a few nagging injuries and there you have it – Voiler.

    Voiler Oiler or Oiler Voiler?

  23. jake70 says:

    ” I have been told by enough people to believe that this trade was made by Kevin Lowe to believe it.”

    If Tambellini is shown the door, and Lowe remains, where are we at?

  24. Captain Obvious says:

    Jussi Jokinen and Kasper Daugavins on waivers today. Picking them up would immediately improve this team. Of course we won’t because the Oilers already have too many good players. That’s why they win so many games.

  25. BlacqueJacque says:

    jake70,

    The sock puppet gets a different name and look.

    If it’s Howson, I am going to Oilers HQ, burning my gear, and donning a Leafs cap. No joke.

  26. BlacqueJacque says:

    Captain Obvious,

    We won’t because ownership is cheap. Paying Eager hurts enough. Plus, it’s an admission of KLowe’s failure as shadow GM.

  27. Woodguy says:

    jake70:
    ” I have been told by enough people to believe that this trade was made by Kevin Lowe to believe it.”

    If Tambellini is shown the door, and Lowe remains, where are we at?

    We need Lowe to cycle through a few GM’s before Katz will realize he’s the problem.

    Either that or Lowe has another “clarity” moment and removes himself from decision making on players altogether.

    I suspect about 2017 we’ll see some change.

  28. Captain Obvious says:

    Ok, so I just looked at Jokinen’s contract. Maybe I don’t pick him up. Still, the Oilers have the worst fourth line and the worst set of D in the league and the waiver wire is full of useful players that would be a huge improvement and yet we never use it and instead trade draft picks for useless players like Mike Brown.

    It is laughable how easy it would be to be an NHL GM. You don’t need to know anything about hockey. Put the hockey people in a room, let them evaluate the finer details, and then run what they say through your thinking matrix (i.e. your brain) and out comes good decisions. Easy as pie.

    For instance: you hire Brian Burke. He tells you you need truculence on your fourth line. You ask him to define truculence and tell you why it helps teams to win. He fails to provide an answer that doesn’t contradict itself. You stop listening to Brian Burke on the value of truculence. However, you keep Brian Burke around because he still knows more about hockey than you. You just keep making him defend his claims to your Socratic questioning. Sooner rather than later you will have combined his knowledge with your ability to reason. The end product of this would easily be a top five organization.

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I suspect about 2017 we’ll see some change.

    that seems pretty optimistic.

  30. Woodguy says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Captain Obvious,

    We won’t because ownership is cheap.Paying Eager hurts enough.Plus, it’s an admission of KLowe’s failure as shadow GM.

    Ownership isn’t cheap at all.

    Management is inept.

    Ownership has paid for Souray, Eager, and Hordichuck to not play for the OIlers.

    That’s not cheap.

    Ownership spent to the cap in 09/10 and “went for it”, which resulted in a 30th place finish, a moment of clarity, and Taylor Hall.

    Ownership won’t be cheap when they buyout Eager and maybe Belanger next year either.

  31. Clay says:

    Captain Obvious:
    Ok, so I just looked at Jokinen’s contract.Maybe I don’t pick him up.Still, the Oilers have the worst fourth lineand the worst set of D in the league and the waiver wire is full of useful players that would be a huge improvement and yet we never use it and instead trade draft picks for useless players like Mike Brown.

    It is laughable how easy it would be to be an NHL GM.You don’t need to know anything about hockey.Put the hockey people in a room, let them evaluate the finer details, and then run what they say through your thinking matrix (i.e. your brain) and out comes good decisions.Easy as pie.

    For instance:you hire Brian Burke.He tells you you need truculence on your fourth line.You ask him to define truculence and tell you why it helps teams to win.He fails to provide an answer that doesn’t contradict itself.You stop listening to Brian Burke on the value of truculence.However, you keep Brian Burke around because he still knows more about hockey than you.You just keep making him defend his claims to your Socratic questioning. Sooner rather than later you will have combined his knowledge with your ability to reason.The end product of this would easily be a top five organization.

    You’re forgetting about the 50 man contract list. Oilers have 49. Pick up a player on waivers, and they’re instantly out of the running for any college FA signings, and hampered at the deadline.

    I’m not defending MGMT by any means, just saying that there’s a reason why they won’t pick up anyone as long as they’re hunting down DeKeyser.

  32. Woodguy says:

    Captain Obvious:
    Jussi Jokinen and Kasper Daugavins on waivers today.Picking them up would immediately improve this team.Of course we won’t because the Oilers already have too many good players.That’s why they win so many games.

    Need the 50th slot fo Dekeyser or another college FA.

    Hordichuk, Abney, Eager all taking up valuable roster spots.

    They should just buy out Eager now and free up a spot.

  33. tlatos says:

    who knew McDonald was doing decently on the Island? Putting up point every ~3 games hitting a ton!
    Even with a -5 Corsi (41.8% OZone% only though) he would be a huge upgrade on the Oilers 4th line. Brodziak 2.0 ……. late bloomer.

  34. Ribs says:

    One hopes the Oilers can gather in DeKeyser, but that probably means two rookies (Soze and Klefbom) for 2013-14.
    Are you all ready for this?

    Sonofa….

  35. Bos8 says:

    cabbiesmacker: Voiler Oiler or Oiler Voiler?

    I’ve been throwing that out for years. Never got a nibble. Huzzah!

  36. leadfarmer says:

    Its kind of sad that the solution to make the PP good is being paid to play for another franchise. Sourays slapshot from the point would really open up the ice. Now the other team just lets us have the point without having to send someone to challenge the puck holder. I’m sure someone will come out and say but hey we have the 6th best pp, but actually watching the team on the pp Im not sure how they score.

  37. leadfarmer says:

    Ribs,

    Top pairing. Hell yeah. Then we can complain how the bottom 6 forwards suck again.

  38. Captain Obvious says:

    The nominal reason for not picking up someone on waivers is the 50 contract limit. However that in itself is part of the problem since the 49 contracts the Oilers have are populated with inept players.

    To say that the contract limit is the reason to not pick up Jokinen, is to say that Cameron Abney has more value than Jussi Jokinen.

  39. Captain Obvious says:

    And as Willis pointed out on Twitter, they can pick up Jokinen and then trade Jones or Whitney before they need the slot for DeKayser. If there is no market for either player then you can waive them and someone will pick them up and then you have your roster spot.

    The Oilers need centers that can play. Jokinen is a center that can play. And he’s free. This seems like a no brainer.*

    * With the caveat that I haven’t looked closely at the numbers because I don’t have them in front of me.

  40. Bos8 says:

    You know – there’s a very successful baseball GM in Tampa Bay that came out of Wall street. No background in baseball. The same applies in hockey. You can hire experts/consultants to help you make decisions. All these ex coaches sitting around as color men. A vein untapped.

  41. Woodguy says:

    Captain Obvious,

    To say that the contract limit is the reason to not pick up Jokinen, is to say that Cameron Abney has more value than Jussi Jokinen.

    It really means that management is so inept that they have no flexibility due to having bad players clutter up the 50 man list.

    No one thinks that J.Joke is worse than Abney, just that the flexibility needed with that spot is more important, which is true.

    This year is shot, so why max out your list and handcuff yourself for a marginal player?

  42. Woodguy says:

    Captain Obvious:
    And as Willis pointed out on Twitter, they can pick up Jokinen and then trade Jones or Whitney before they need the slot for DeKayser.If there is no market for either player then you can waive them and someone will pick them up and then you have your roster spot.

    The Oilers need centers that can play.Jokinen is a center that can play.And he’s free.This seems like a no brainer.*

    * With the caveat that I haven’t looked closely at the numbers because I don’t have them in front of me.

    Dekeyser is having “open house” tomorrow.

    5 GM”s and one coach (thought to be RK) are flying to TOR to meet with him and his agent.

    He is bringing his equipment with him and will accompany the GM of the team he chooses to whatever city they are playing at next after Wednesday.

    Picking someone up today is awful if you think you have a chance at Dekeyser.

    More awful than Tambo.

  43. LMHF#1 says:

    Why didn’t they get rid of the 50 contract limit during the CBA negotiations? It doesn’t seem to be helping anyone.

  44. Cobbler says:

    Woodguy,

    Picking up Jokinen makes the Oilers better now and in the future in a role that lots here have identified as a weakness (bottom 6). Question is which contract(s) go out to accommodate this?

    Given his boxcars, ability to produce on the PP and 5v5, his lack of injury concern(?), the fact he is signed for another year at $3M I don’t see the problem with picking him up. Other than the current roster management issues with the Oilers.

    A good 3rd liner who can play PP and contribute an occasion to the top 6.

  45. Woodguy says:

    Cobbler:
    Woodguy,

    Picking up Jokinen makes the Oilers better now and in the future in a role that lots here have identified as a weakness (bottom 6).Question is which contract(s) go out to accommodate this?

    Given his boxcars, ability to produce on the PP and 5v5, his lack of injury concern(?), the fact he is signed for another year at $3M I don’tsee the problem with picking him up.Other than the current roster management issues with the Oilers.

    A good 3rd liner who can play PP and contribute an occasion to the top 6.

    If the Oilers get Dekeyser they are better off than just getting Joikinen.

    Maybe they can trade Abney for Joikinen after Wednesday. :)

  46. Woodguy says:

    Don’t get me wrong.

    Joikinen is an upgrade on everyone except the top 2 lines and 10 and I’d love to have him.

    Timing is shitty given Dekeyser and Oilers stupidity of having 49 contracts right now.

    Serioulsy, they should trade Abney or Hordichuck and a 4th for a 6th rounder just to loose a player off the 50 and pick up Joikinen.

  47. FastOil says:

    leadfarmer:
    Its kind of sad that the solution to make the PP good is being paid to play for another franchise.Sourays slapshot from the point would really open up the ice.Now the other team just lets us have the point without having to send someone to challenge the puck holder.I’m sure someone will come out and say but hey we have the 6th best pp, but actually watching the team on the pp Im not sure how they score.

    It might be a strategy thing. Petry, Whitney and Potter can shoot. If Potter and Whitney are going to play they might as well shoot which is about all they are good at currently. It’s the obsession with the half boards perhaps. The Oilers aren’t big on crazy things like adding another threat to the attack strategy. It might get too complex for the elite talent having more than one option. You have to go with what works ;)

  48. LMHF#1 says:

    Woodguy:
    Serioulsy, they should trade Abney or Hordichuck and a 4th for a 6th rounder just to loose a player off the 50 and pick up Joikinen.

    “serioulsy” and “loose”???

    C’mon WG, step your game up!

  49. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Don’t get me wrong.

    Joikinen is an upgrade on everyone except the top 2 lines and 10 and I’d love to have him.

    Timing is shitty given Dekeyser and Oilers stupidity of having 49 contracts right now.

    Serioulsy, they should trade Abney or Hordichuck and a 4th for a 6th rounder just to loose a player off the 50 and pick up Joikinen.

    Can’t they trade one of these guys to a team with room on the 50 man, or plante, or anyone really, and sweeten the deal with a bag full of Katz’ money?

    there must be a team with room that will take a guy for basically nothing for a few months in exchange for cash.

    if they added Hall and Joikinen the Center Depth skyrockets in the bottom of the roster for basically nothing.

  50. Cobbler says:

    Woodguy,

    Agreed. In my opinion, a good management group would be able to free up a spot now should Jokinen fall to them. If someone else claims him at least you have the contract space prior to the trade deadline.

    This and simultaneously make a play for DeKeyser. Sort of like juggling two balls.

    Now three balls…that would be a trick!

  51. godot10 says:

    The problem with the Oilers is a shortage of competent defensemen. A $3 million dollar Jussi Jokinen on the roster as a 4th line centre next year is not going to help, when you have Gagner, Smid, and another top 4 defensemen to add under the $64.3 million dollar salary cap.

    All Jokinen does is make even harder to add the required defensemen to the roster next year.

    Colin Fraser was a fine 4th line centre on two Stanley Cup winning teams with a good defense behind him. He looked putrid with the Oilers defense behind him.

    The Oilers need defensemen, not $3 million dollar 4th line players.

  52. regwald says:

    Woodguy: Dekeyser is having “open house” tomorrow.

    5 GM”s and one coach (thought to be RK) are flying to TOR to meet with him and his agent.

    He is bringing his equipment with him and will accompany the GM of the team he chooses to whatever city they are playing at next after Wednesday.

    Actually saw on twitter that Trtoz is in Toronto to meet with up with the Nashville group to meet with DeKeyser

  53. Cobbler says:

    Could be that Jokinen is miscast at centre. Plays both centre and the wing.

    http://www.canescountry.com/2013/3/4/4063432/jussi-jokinen-at-the-center-of-controversy

    Picking him up off waivers shouldn’t hurt their ability to sign Gagner, Smid or improve the defence.

    Again he needs to replace an existing contract(s). Better player in, lesser player out. That’s the idea here. Lot’s of options Eager, Belanger, Petrell, Hordichuck, Jones?? Pick any from the Barons you want.

  54. Woodguy says:

    LMHF#1: “serioulsy” and “loose”???

    C’mon WG, step your game up!

    The damn screen is so tough to read on the crackberry that I’m surprised anything I write is coherent and not just a jumble of spelling mistakes.

    Duly noted sir.

  55. Cobbler says:

    godot10,

    True Colin Fraser did win two Stanley’s with two very god teams, but he in no way compares with Jussi Jokinen.

    Agreed the defence and team defence are issues, but the GF tells us we have serious issues with depth scoring up front.

    Jokinen would not be “the” solution but certainly a part of it.

  56. Captain Obvious says:

    godot10:
    The problem with the Oilers is a shortage of competent defensemen.A $3 million dollar Jussi Jokinen on the roster as a 4th line centre next year is not going to help, when you have Gagner, Smid, and another top 4 defensemen to add under the $64.3 million dollar salary cap.

    All Jokinen does is make even harder to add the required defensemen to the roster next year.

    Colin Fraser was a fine 4th line centre on two Stanley Cup winning teams with a good defense behind him.He looked putrid with the Oilers defense behind him.

    The Oilers need defensemen, not $3 million dollar 4th line players.

    That’s nonsense. Go to capgeek and play around with their future roster tool. The Oilers have room to re-sign Gagner and Smid, add a $5.5 M defensemen and a $3M forward. So it is not an either or situation. Moreover, Jokinen isn’t a $3M fourth line player, he would be one of the Oilers best nine forwards who would play major minutes. There is no need to predetermine where in the lineup everyone plays.

    The simple fact is that the Oilers don’t have enough good forwards. Jokinen is a good forward that doesn’t cost them anywhere else. That makes this an easy proposition. If they don’t pick up Jokinen they have to add a FA forward, someone like Cullen or Prospal, and there is no guaranteed they’d be able to do this.

    So to summarize. Pick up Jokinen, trade futures for $5.5M defenseman, re-sign Smid and Gagner. Make playoffs next year. Simple.

  57. Bag of Pucks says:

    I agree the 4th line is not good enough, but why the obsession with it this season?

    Upgrade that aspect of this team and you get a modest lift in the standings – if you’re lucky. This when your team still lacks major bullets at C, forwards with size and Top 4 D. Why should the objective be moving up a nominal 5 or 10 points in the standings, when any impact this team could make in the postseason is negligible, and you’ve got the opportunity to address a major need in a deep draft?

    This is year 3 of a 5 year rebuild and people are acting like the sky is falling because the Oilers are playing Lennart Petrell and Mike Brown too much in a truncated season?

    Here’s some glass half full observations from the season.

    Hemsky & Gagner have significantly improved their trade value. Either one or both can now feasibly be dealt to address more critical needs and better balance the lineup.

    Two horrible contracts (Whitney and Khabibulin) are coming off the books should mgmt decide to be active in free agency

    Dubnyk is finally showing signs of being a consistent and capable starter.

    Paajarvi has wandered out of the wilderness and continues his evolution towards becoming a capable two way player.

    Hall is a beast.

    Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz Jr, Petry are all learning the hard lessons that come with playing in the NHL and will be better for it next season.

    So much of the vitriol being spewed is just pure and simple impatience (i.e. I wanted them to be better and I wanted it yesterday).

    We’ve got Coffey, Kurri, Anderson, Messier redux in hand with Kent Nilsson on the horizon and everyone wants to focus their energies on the fact that there’s no place for Lumley and Semenko on this team. wtf???

  58. MrSmitty says:

    With trotz being in TO pretty much means Krugruer isn’t going to be there.

  59. godot10 says:

    Cobbler:
    Could be that Jokinen is miscast at centre. Plays both centre and the wing.

    http://www.canescountry.com/2013/3/4/4063432/jussi-jokinen-at-the-center-of-controversy

    Picking him up off waivers shouldn’t hurt their ability to sign Gagner, Smid or improve the defence.

    Again he needs to replace an existing contract(s).Better player in, lesser player out.That’s the idea here.Lot’s of options Eager, Belanger, Petrell, Hordichuck, Jones??Pick any from the Barons you want.

    Next year:
    Hall, Eberle $6 million to cap each
    Horcoff $5.5 million to the cap
    Gagner, Hemsky, $5 million to the cap each, minimum, because Gagner is probably more
    Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov, $3.75 million each
    Smyth, $2.25 million
    Paajarvi, $1.5 million

    Those are your top 9 forwards already.

    And you want to add a 10th forward at $3 million (a 3rd or 4th line forward) at $3 million, and say you have enough money for Smid and another top 4 D.

    The problem with the Oilers is D. The above forwards are NOT the problem.

    The season is effed. The important thing is not to go out and eff next season by doing something stupid, like claiming Jokinen on waivers.

  60. asiaoil says:

    Jokinen contract is up next year – no worries – bigger problem as other have said is that the stooges on Kingsway have populated the 50 man contract list with garbage. But it’s their garbage and it smells like a rose to those guys.

    Honestly if all that happens through the trade deadline is that we trade Hemsky for a magic beans then these guys are a complete and utter joke.

    I actually keep Belanger as the 5th center – he’s fine at that slot.

  61. godot10 says:

    The Oilers aren’t scoring because their defense is lousy, not because their forwards aren’t good.

    The Oilers are 2 NHL defensemen short. The Oilers forwards would be fine with an NHL defense behind them.

  62. Captain Obvious says:

    godot10,

    You are simply wrong about this.

    First, if you want to have nine good forwards you have to enter camp with more than nine good forwards. The Oilers forward group is not good enough.

    Second, adding a good forward does not make it more difficult to add a good defenseman. They are not mutually contradictory desires.

    Third, adding Jokinen for free makes next year’s team better. If they don’t add Jokinen now they have to add a FA in the offseason which will come with a longer term. So even if you are playing for the future then adding Jokinen is a good idea.

  63. asiaoil says:

    godot10,

    Trade Hemsky for a 20 year old bigger RW or D and buy out Smyth and Horcoff – that will give you about 10 million right there – and Joker can play 3rd line center.

  64. Cobbler says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I think we would all agree here with your positive bullets on the season thus far and I am sure the management group will remind us of the great strides they have made this year. I do think it says something positive about the team that so much of the discussion involves the bottom 6 forwards.

    I think what you are seeing is a general lack of appetite for the tank job again this season. I would prefer them go after a few decent players at the deadline and in the off-season to try and improve the team now and in the future.

    This shouldn’t be a problem. Even if they go .500 the rest of the season they will not likely climb much higher in the standings. But tanking for a top 3 pick (which they may get anyway) while doing nothing to improve the team makes me puke in my mouth a bit .

  65. godot10 says:

    Smid and another defensemen are going to cost $9 million towards the cap next year. The Oilers cannot afford another $3 million dollar 3rd linish winger.

    The cap room has to be spent on defense.

  66. Woodguy says:

    Cobbler:
    Woodguy,

    Agreed.In my opinion, a good management group would be able to free up a spot now should Jokinen fall to them.If someone else claims him at least you have the contract space prior to the trade deadline.

    This and simultaneously make a play for DeKeyser.Sort of like juggling two balls.

    Now three balls…that would be a trick!

    That would be one ball each for Lowe, MacTavish, and Tambellini.

    That’s asking too much of Tambellini.

  67. rickithebear says:

    Come on with the Trade eberle ETC………..
    Pre core development Players top 10 (last 15 seasons) in
    Goal production; Point Production; point Affect; post ELC contract as % of Cap

    Ie: best young starts to career.
    Ovechkin: #1; #2; #3; 16.8%
    Malkin: #2; #3; #2; 15.3%
    Crosby #3; #1; #1; 15.3%
    Stamkos #4; #7; #5; 11.7%
    Heatley: #5; #5; #4; 13.2%
    Kovalchuk: #5; #10; #10; 16.4% then 11.7%
    Toews: #7; #9; #7; 10.6%
    P. Statsny; #10; #4; #6; 11.6%
    Eberle; #10; #10; #8; 9.3%

    Some others:
    Tavares; #17; #16; #17; 8.6%
    Hall: #8; #16; #20; 9.3%
    Skinner: #13; #20; #15; 8.9%
    E. Staal: #14; #13; #12; 9.2% then 14.5%
    P.Kane: #31; #8; #10; 10.6%
    Kopitar: #14; #6; #14; 12.0%

    Ganer’s 23 year old season is right there with:
    C. Giroux
    Kopitar
    iginla
    Kovalchuk
    Perry
    E. Staal
    Krejci
    Toews

    We will probably paying 17.5M for Hall, Gagner, Eberle for the next 5–6 years.

  68. Cobbler says:

    Woodguy,

    Very true this group does like to do things by committee.

    I clearly have unrealistic expectations ;) Dare to dream……..

  69. asiaoil says:

    godot10,

    Again – you get Jokinen who would be fine as the 3rd line C. to replace Horcoff at a savings of $2.5 million cap. You compliance buyout Smyth and Horcoff, standard buyout for Eager. That’s about $10 million saved from the cap. No reason to no do this and not fix the defense as well. Look at Joker’s numbers – he’s a fine player – and pretty good at FO if memory serves.

  70. asiaoil says:

    rickithebear:
    Come on with the Trade eberle ETC………..
    Pre core development Players top 10 (last 15 seasons) in
    Goal production; Point Production; point Affect; post ELC contract as % of Cap

    Ie: best young starts to career.
    Ovechkin: #1;#2;#3;16.8%
    Malkin:#2;#3;#2;15.3%
    Crosby#3;#1;#1;15.3%
    Stamkos #4;#7;#5;11.7%
    Heatley:#5;#5;#4; 13.2%
    Kovalchuk:#5;#10;#10; 16.4% then 11.7%
    Toews:#7;#9;#7;10.6%
    P. Statsny;#10;#4;#6;11.6%
    Eberle; #10;#10;#8;9.3%

    Some others:
    Tavares; #17;#16;#17;8.6%
    Hall:#8;#16;#20;9.3%
    Skinner: #13;#20;#15;8.9%
    E. Staal:#14;#13;#12;9.2%then 14.5%
    P.Kane:#31;#8;#10;10.6%
    Kopitar: #14;#6;#14;12.0%

    Ganer’s 23 year old season is right there with:
    C. Giroux
    Kopitar
    iginla
    Kovalchuk
    Perry
    E. Staal
    Krejci
    Toews

    We will probably paying 17.5M for Hall, Gagner, Eberle for the next 5–6 years.

    I understand that Eberle is a quality young player – the Joey Mullins comp is excellent. But with outr depth at RW – if he was able to get us a quality young top pair dman – then I would trade him in a heartbeat.

  71. godot10 says:

    Replacing Horcoff with Jokinen makes the Oilers worse. Jokinen is more a winger than a centre, and is certainly more a soft minutes type of player.

    You need Nugent-Hopkins and Horcoff both to be able to handle the top two lines on the other team. Gagner is more a softer minutes outscorer.

    The Oilers have more than enough good wingers. What they lack is defensemen able to get the puck moving in the right direction.

  72. Cobbler says:

    godot10,

    No one is arguing with your point on the defence. I think most would like to see them improve both facets of the team (bottom 6 and defence).

    They should be able to do that and stay under the cap. That’s what good teams do.

  73. cabbiesmacker says:

    godot10:
    The Oilers aren’t scoring because their defense is lousy, not because their forwards aren’t good.

    The Oilers are 2 NHL defensemen short.The Oilers forwards would be fine with an NHL defense behind them.

    Oilers are short decent defencemen for sure but that top 9 is NOT good enough. They will be, or at least 5 – 6 of them will be in time, but as of today they sure aren’t.

    Here’s a few WC top 9′s. Tell me which ones the Oilers are better than today if you would.

    CHI – M. Hossa, P. Sharp, D. Bolland, V. Stalberg, B. Bickel, J. Toews, P. Kane, A. Shaw, B. Saad

    STL – A. Steen, A. McDonald, D. Perron, D. Backes, P. Berglund, V. Sobotka, T.J. Oshie, C. Stewart
    V. Tarasenko

    LAK – D. Brown, D. Penner, T.Toffoli, A. Kopitar, M. Richards, J. Stoll, J.Williams, J.Carter, T. Lewis

    ANA – B. Ryan, D. Winnik, K. Palmieri, R. Getzlaf, S. Koivu, D. Steckel, C. Perry, A.Cogliano, T. Selanne

    DET – J. Franzen, V. Filppula, D. Cleary, P. Datsyuk, H. Zetterberg, D. Helm, T. Bertuzzi, J. Adelkader, D. Brunner

    VAN – D. Sedin, C. Higgins, M. Raymond, H.Sedin, R. Kesler, J. Schroeder, A. Burrows, J. Hansen, Z. Kassian

  74. Minister D- says:

    godot10,

    Yes, but the Oilers bottom six are also lousy and getting scored on. We still need a depth centre, someone who ain’t Belanger. Picking up Jokinen makes too much sense, so naturally it won’t happen. But I’m not sure, in this case, that managerial incompetence will be the deciding factor: I think Jokinen will get picked up before the Oilers could claim him.

  75. godot10 says:

    The Oilers top nine is:

    Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle
    Paajarvi, Gagner, Yakupov
    Smyth, Horcoff, Hemsky

    That is plenty good enough. I don’t see where Jokinen fits in. The Oilers need to add a physical winger to that group 9whom they might have in house in Hartikainen).

    The fourth line of Hartikainen, Belanger, and Brown would be adequate if they played in front of an NHL defense.

    See Fraser in LA and Chicago. Belanger in Phx. Brule and Pouliot in Phoenix last year. Colton Orr and Fraser McClaren in Toronto.

    The Oilers lack cheap depth forwards to hold the fort when players are injured.

    Jokinen doesn’t add anything. His $3 million next year just makes it more difficult to get the needed defensemen.

    The OIlers’ NEED is defensemen.

  76. godot10 says:

    Minister D-:
    godot10,

    Yes, but the Oilers bottom six are also lousy and getting scored on. We still need a depth centre, someone who ain’t Belanger. Picking up Jokinen makes too much sense, so naturally it won’t happen. But I’m not sure, in this case, that managerial incompetence will be the deciding factor: I think Jokinen will get picked up before the Oilers could claim him.

    The bottom six get scored on because they are dressing some of the wrong ones (i.e. Jones) and PRIMARILY because the defensemen behind them aren’t good enough.

  77. Cobbler says:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/03/26/edmonton-oilers-game-day-new-day-new-lines/

    Belanger injured again. Jeez sure could use someone to play centre.

    Management: “Smitty yer playing 4C tonight. We are just totally out of options”

    So much for that top 9

  78. asiaoil says:

    godot10:
    Replacing Horcoff with Jokinen makes the Oilers worse.Jokinen is more a winger than a centre, and is certainly more a soft minutes type of player.

    You need Nugent-Hopkins and Horcoff both to be able to handle the top two lines on the other team.Gagner is more a softer minutes outscorer.

    The Oilers have more than enough good wingers.What they lack is defensemen able to get the puck moving in the right direction.

    The Oilers do not have enough good players – Joker is a good player.

  79. godot10 says:

    asiaoil: The Oilers do not have enough good players – Joker is a good player.

    The Oilers need more good players, but the need at defense is far more desparate than the need at forward, and Jokinen does NOT come at the right price point.

    The only top nine type the Oilers need is someone who might bring more physicality. They need better 4th and 5th line types, but the price point for those guys is far different than the price tag Jokinen comes at. Jokinen comes at between a 2nd and 3rd line price point. The Oilers don’t need that forward. They need better forwards at the million dollar price point.

  80. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    Great breakdown of the playoff teams – particularly in the East.

    Had the same thoughts on Enstrom that you expressed. Has weakness but can make a first pass…

    As an aside – the Carolina crew were just mentioning on local radio here ( Winnipeg ) at 21 years old – Justin Faulk is their best defenceman.

    No need to remind anyone that Just Faulk was taken in the 2nd round in 2010 – 6 spots behind Tyler Pitlick.

    I also take note that Jason Tucker of the Wild was selected in the 2nd round of 2010…

    Bogo, Buff Enstrom Hainsey – and word that Jacob Trouba might leave early and come play hockey.

    It would appear Winnipeg is a few goal scorers short of becoming a top team – but they will have 3 picks in the top 60 this draft as well.

    You can make a strong case that Winnipeg has a very decent young core of defenceman…

  81. hunter1909 says:

    HugThePost: Tambo has been given the keys to a high performance car and has gone ahead and slapped on the shittiest shit tires to it and ridden the clutch all around town.

    Nails it!

    Woodguy: I suspect about 2017 we’ll see some change.

    Forever the optimist.

    godot10: The Oilers forwards would be fine with an NHL defense behind them.

    How you can ignore lack of fan support is beyond me.

    Cobbler: Belanger injured again.

    He plays for this team?

    Last night I was cheering the Preds on, and will do my best to cheer for the Blues. It’s easy to cheer for the better team. I didn’t even care when Eberle was nailed. Not one little bit. Pajaarvi was the best Oiler, imo. He’s going to be special.

  82. denny33 says:

    Ice Sage,

    Personally, I think there is something to this….

  83. leadfarmer says:

    godot10,

    I’ve been saying that for sometime, but no one listens. They keep beating on the bottom 6 players. There is a reason that teams like Phoenix and Nashville are better than us, even though their forward core is marginal at best. Its called defense, and defensemen that can spring the offense. There is a reason we get only a couple odd man rushes a game. Think about it. Why does a team with so much speed not get more breakaways. Its because no one can get the puck and pass it well enough to hit the forward in stride.

  84. godot10 says:

    denny33:
    Woodguy,

    Great breakdown of the playoff teams – particularly in the East.

    Had the same thoughts on Enstrom that you expressed. Has weakness but can make a first pass…

    As an aside – the Carolina crew were just mentioning on local radio here ( Winnipeg ) at 21 years old – Justin Faulk is their best defenceman.

    No need to remind anyone that Just Faulk was taken in the 2nd round in 2010– 6 spots behindTyler Pitlick.

    I also take note that Jason Tucker of the Wild was selected in the 2nd round of 2010…

    Bogo, Buff Enstrom Hainsey – and word that Jacob Trouba might leave early and come play hockey.

    It would appear Winnipeg is a few goal scorers short of becoming a top team – but they will have 3 picks in the top 60 this draft as well.

    You can make a strong case that Winnipeg has a very decent young core of defenceman…

    Nobody was arguing Pitlick was a bad pick when the Oilers made it. He was CopperNBlues choice for the pick.

    Hindsight is wonderful.

    If you watch Pitlick play, the package is there, the production hasn’t come. He is big, physical, and can skate, with a great shot. It is clear why the he was ranked as a top 30 draft pick. But the production hasn’t come.

  85. Kitchener says:

    Bag of Pucks:

    Agreed. Some find it easier to cheer for a team in 30th or 1st place than one moving up through 20-25.

    There are up-arrows all over the place. MGMT needs 4 months of good decisions (which they may or may not do), but we’re in way better shape than 2 seasons ago.

    Here’s another positive for the list: Yak is a bull. Some of his hits & how he mauls a defender with the puck are unique within our top 9. He’s not consistent or smooth about it yet, but boy is ferocity a nice part of the mix…

  86. Cobbler says:

    hunter1909,

    Belanger injured again. Addition by Subtraction?

  87. cabbiesmacker says:

    Cobbler:
    hunter1909,

    Belanger injured again.

    Pulled foreskin?

  88. freedomisamyth says:

    Long time listener, first time caller. You guys have finally driven me crazy enough to register and actually say something :)

    It kind of amazes me that so many smart people seem to have so much tunnel vision when it comes to the oilers, and have their pet theories that they are so sure are the big reason why they aren’t winning. Then, you proceed to twist every quote, or every rumor to bolster your chosen scapegoat, rather than look at each fact objectively. Then to make it even more infuriating, instead of talking productive hockey talk, all we get is beating your chosen dead horse at every opportunity.

    There are a few narratives that I want to target a bit because the harping on them allllll the time kind of drives me a bit crazy. All of these things may be issues, but harping on them to no end when they probably wouldn’t make that much of a difference at this point seems crazy.

    Sure the 4th line isn’t that productive, but the fact is the 4th line doesn’t have much impact on most teams – maybe it would have gotten them an extra 2-3 pts on the season to have an average to above average 4th line. Even playing them too much is a silly thing to complain about – it’s a compact season, the rest of the team would be even more tired if the 4th only got 6 mins a game. Seems like a waste of time to focus on to me.

    Sure, maybe picking up some players on the waiver wire might help, or you might get stuck with just another contract for a player that is no better than what you already have. Even if they do help, there is a very small chance they will help enough to make any real difference in the standings. Seems like a waste of time to focus on to me.

    Sure the defense isn’t the best either, but the oilers defensive numbers aren’t ridiculously bad either. This one at least has the possibility to make some real impact if we had some changes here, but I think we’d have to turn into the best defensive team in the league to really affect the standings much. Seems like a waste of time to focus on to me.

    Sure the coaching may not have been Jack Adams quality coaching this year, but I have a hard time faulting Kruger for most of his decisions. Most of them are pretty defensible. I haven’t seen anything that I would say has had so much impact as to single handedly lose games. There are some decisions that may have had an impact, but anyone who says definitively that doing something THIS WAY would have ended up with a different result is just talking out their ass. You can’t see ‘what could have been’. You are only using possibilities as ammunition for your own agenda, and your own bias. So with that, I don’t think coaching has had a huge effect either way this season. Best we can say is that coaching hasn’t won us games.

    So with that being said, I’m going to beat my own horse now! Ultimately I think there’s only one thing that would change this team from being mediocre/bad: improving the even strength scoring. I think there’s a lot of things affecting this, but the biggest effect would be the top 6, and it kind of baffles me that so little focus is put on that by most people. Sure the kids are putting up numbers, but mostly on the PP. I don’t think it’s an issue with the kids not being good either – they are going to be very good. However, I think the top 6 is terribly unbalanced (and the bottom 6 isn’t that much better). The kids get very few easy goals because none of them go where they need to go to score them enough. Watch 90% of their plays and you see either entering the zone, trying to make a sweet pass and turning it over, trying to beat 2 defenders and turning it over, managing to get a cycle going that lasts a long time but never generates any real dangerous plays because they keep looking for the pretty play. Even when they manage to get a good chance, there’s never any one who manages to get a rebound, because the defense easily pushes them away from the goal, or over powers their stick and gets the rebound out of danger.

    The top 6 are pretty much all the same players. No one hangs around the net, drawing defenders attention. Even if they are actually around the net, the defenders lay off them because they know if there is a rebound, the oilers forwards are easy to push out of the way and take the puck away from. Most goals in the NHL are scored because there is traffic out front and the goalie is either screened on the shot, or someone puts in a rebound. Gagner and Hall have the most points because they consistently go to the net more than anyone else, and shoot when it’s appropriate (when people are causing havoc in front), but even they aren’t enough. If each line had someone who had some hands, and was a hand full for the defense to control, that would leave a lot more room for the skill players to snipe goals, or swoop in to get rebounds. Every game there are tons of great opportunities where all it would take is someone jumping on a rebound for a wide open net, but there’s rarely anyone there.

    Adding to this, they turn over the puck so much that it’s hard to get real offense going too – skill players turn over the puck more than most players, because they try the hard plays. That’s fine if you have guys who don’t turn over the puck to play with them, but if all you have are guys that try and make plays and turn the puck over, you end up with an awful lot of turnovers.

    Also, improving the puck moving ability of the defense, and the forwards being able to get the puck moving out of the defensive end without panicking and dumping it out as fast as they can, would help a lot too for getting more opportunities, but that’s something that does actually get brought up a lot here, so I won’t harp on that anymore than it already has been. I think it would also have less impact, because it doesn’t help that much when you get down to the offensive end and can’t do anything anyways.

  89. denny33 says:

    Captain Obvious,

    I agree our 4th line is bad…

    However, like the Coyotes a few months ago…I just watched an NHL team ice a team that might easily be mistaken for an AHL team . Richard Clune on the 3rd line – not the 4th line – the 3rd line.

    4th line was …and I struggle to type this..Taylor Beck, Mike Mueller, Bobby Butler….if you want you can throw in Brandon Yip…

    I agree with Barry Trotz and his own summation of some of the players on his team….’ some of the guys simply can’t play at this level…

  90. Kitchener says:

    godot10,

    re Pitlick: Yes. His tools and potential are still evident when watching him live. Yet, the stats don’t lie. Hopefully he’s a late bloomer instead of a shoulda-coulda.

  91. Cobbler says:

    from Stauffer:

    “Centerman Eric Belanger re-aggravated a groin injury in last night’s game and has been placed on Injured Reserve. The team has not made a call-up for tonight’s game, meaning that Ryan Smyth will move back down to center the 4th line with Lennart Petrell drawing back into the lineup. On defense, Mark Fistric will come out with Ryan Whitney entering the lineup again. Nikolai Khabibulin will start in goal.

    The team did not have a morning skate today, so the exact line combinations are unknown.”

    And the tank is officially on….

  92. eidy says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    I hope the target for a UFA is Viktor Stalberg out of Chicago. They have 5 million in cap space and have to reup Nick Leddy and Krueger. They also need a back up goalie and for UFA they have Stalberg, Roszival, and Bickell

    6 ft 3, 209. Hits a bit and most importantly can play hockey. He would be a nice addition to the top 9. fills all of the criteria. He makes 875 K now so will be in need of a raise however this is the kind of addition that would help this team.

  93. sliderule says:

    If we hadn’t fired Renney we probably wouldn’t be talking about how offensively challenged our young guys are.Renney gave them offensive zone starts and matched hard to the other teams third or fourth lines as much as possible.Like Canucks do with Sedins.

    Instead we have coach who just throws out whoever and usually let’s the kids play tough minutes.

    This strategy may speed their defensive development but it’s a sure way to lose games.

    If they really had this throw them to the wolves strategy the tank was on from day one.

  94. gcw_rocks says:

    Another college FA signing:

    “Chris Casto (Minnesota Duluth) — D – reportedly signed by Boston Bruins on March 25 — The 21-year-old defensive defenseman is leaving Minnesota Duluth after just two season. Casto has great size at 6-3, 215 and probably has a little more offensive potential than his college numbers suggest, but he’s definitely a guy that will take care of his own end first. His numbers dipped as a sophomore to nine points from 13 the previous year. That’s not much cause for alarm considering UMD had a down season compared to last year when the Bulldogs made the national tournament. He has solid mobility for a player of his size and will nestle in nicely down the depth chart in Boston’s system. At 21, he’s got plenty of time to develop and the upside is there to develop into an NHL defenseman. It’s a tad surprising to see Casto leave school this soon, but he could have benefited this year from college free agent class that is large in number, but lighter on top-end options.”

  95. leadfarmer says:

    Only 2 points out from finishing were we where last year, and only 5 pts away from Tallon the Great.

  96. hunter1909 says:

    freedomisamyth:
    Long time listener, first time caller. You guys have finally driven me crazy enough to register and actually say something

    It kind of amazes me that so many smart people seem to have so much tunnel vision when it comes to the oilers, and have their pet theories that they are so sure are the big reason why they aren’t winning. Then, you proceed to twist every quote, or every rumor to bolster your chosen scapegoat, rather than look at each fact objectively. Then to make it even more infuriating, instead of talking productive hockey talk, all we get is beating your chosen dead horse at every opportunity.

    There are a few narratives that I want to target a bit because the harping on them allllll the time kind of drives me a bit crazy. All of these things may be issues, but harping on them to no end when they probably wouldn’t make that much of a difference at this point seems crazy.

    Sure the 4th line isn’t that productive, but the fact is the 4th line doesn’t have much impact on most teams – maybe it would have gotten them an extra 2-3 pts on the season to have an average to above average 4th line. Even playing them too much is a silly thing to complain about – it’s a compact season, the rest of the team would be even more tired if the 4th only got 6 mins a game.Seems like a waste of time to focus on to me.

    Sure, maybe picking up some players on the waiver wire might help, or you might get stuck with just another contract for a player that is no better than what you already have. Even if they do help, there is a very small chance they will help enough to make any real difference in the standings. Seems like a waste of timeto focus on to me.

    Sure the defense isn’t the best either, but the oilers defensive numbers aren’t ridiculously bad either. This one at least has the possibility to make some real impact if we had some changes here, but I think we’d have to turn into the best defensive team in the league to really affect the standings much.Seems like a waste of timeto focus on to me.

    Sure the coaching may not have been Jack Adams quality coaching this year, but I have a hard time faulting Kruger for most of his decisions. Most of them are pretty defensible. I haven’t seen anything that I would say has had so much impact as to single handedly lose games. There are some decisions that may have had an impact, but anyone who says definitively that doing something THIS WAY would have ended up with a different result is just talking out their ass. You can’t see ‘what could have been’. You are only using possibilities as ammunition for your own agenda, and your own bias. So with that, I don’t think coaching has had a huge effect either way this season. Best we can say is that coaching hasn’t won us games.

    So with that being said, I’m going to beat my own horse now! Ultimately I think there’s only one thing that would change this team from being mediocre/bad: improving the even strength scoring. I think there’s a lot of things affecting this, but the biggest effect would be the top 6, and it kind of baffles me that so little focus is put on that by most people. Sure the kids are putting up numbers, but mostly on the PP. I don’t think it’s an issue with the kids not being good either – they are going to be very good. However, I think the top 6 is terribly unbalanced (and the bottom 6 isn’t that much better). The kids get very few easy goals because none of them go where they need to go to score them enough. Watch 90% of their plays and you see either entering the zone, trying to make a sweet pass and turning it over, trying to beat 2 defenders and turning it over, managing to get a cycle going that lasts a long time but never generates any real dangerous plays because they keep looking for the pretty play. Even when they manage to get a good chance, there’s never any one who manages to get a rebound, because the defense easily pushes them away from the goal, or over powers their stick and gets the rebound out of danger.

    The top 6 are pretty much all the same players. No one hangs around the net, drawing defenders attention. Even if they are actually around the net, the defenders lay off them because they know if there is a rebound, the oilers forwards are easy to push out of the way and take the puck away from. Most goals in the NHL are scored because there is traffic out front and the goalie is either screened on the shot, or someone puts in a rebound. Gagner and Hall have the most points because they consistently go to the net more than anyone else, and shoot when it’s appropriate (when people are causing havoc in front), but even they aren’t enough. If each line had someone who had some hands, and was a hand full for the defense to control, that would leave a lot more room for the skill players to snipe goals, or swoop in to get rebounds. Every game there are tons of great opportunities where all it would take is someone jumping on a rebound for a wide open net, but there’s rarely anyone there.

    Adding to this, they turn over the puck so much that it’s hard to get real offense going too – skill players turn over the puck more than most players, because they try the hard plays. That’s fine if you have guys who don’t turn over the puck to play with them, but if all you have are guys that try and make plays and turn the puck over, you end up with an awful lot of turnovers.

    Also, improving the puck moving ability of the defense, and the forwards being able to get the puck moving out of the defensive end without panicking and dumping it out as fast as they can, would help a lot too for getting more opportunities, but that’s something that does actually get brought up a lot here, so I won’t harp on that anymore than it already has been. I think it would also have less impact, because it doesn’t help that much when you get down to the offensive end and can’t do anything anyways.

    This is Craig MacTavish, right? Showing off his computing skills to Kevin Lowe.
    Why not cut to the chase, and do what the Oilers management do, and simply blame the fans?

    As far as your argument goes, nice to think that NHL teams can set sail blithely with no worries re such trifles as 4th lines, but in the real world of Edmonton ices the fucking suckiest bunch of suckfaced shitebag teams year after year after year, no matter who coaches, no matter who plays, no matter because THE SAME MANAGEMENT is here for life.

    Roman Catholic Popes resign, before Kevin Lowe and his 3rd rate dynasty member mafia.

  97. gcw_rocks says:

    It’s crazy that Krueger isn’t feeding the young guns pillow soft minutes to generate more EV scoring. I do not understand the Oilers coaching strategies at all. First Renney, now Krueger. For a team that is supposed to be employing people to help with “fancy stats” they sure don’t seem to use them.

  98. VanOil says:

    I am now at peace with another lost season from the Oilers. Spending a sunny day yesterday cruising the Sea to Sky on a motorbike is amazing therapy. I did not even mind missing the first period.

    To keep this equilibrium I am trying to find some lessons learned and RE of management in the up coming months.

    For lessons learned from the Tambo the Terrible era you have to be thankful of the insight he has provided into development of highly rated prospects. It truly has been a historic haul. I propose the following model for positional development timelines, giver of take a year based on physical development, injury and exceptional skill;

    Proper develop curve for a prized wing prospect; 1 year AHL, 1 year Bubble player, 1 year soft minutes, 2 years cutting the mustard, Many years of Gravy or a Bust.

    A Bubble player being one that Bounces back and forth between leagues, sheltered in the NHL ridden hard in the AHL. Soft minute being played involve both easy opposition, zone starts and quality veteran line mates. (Horcoff yes, Belanger no)

    Proper development of a prized Center prospect; 2 years AHL, 1 year Bubble player, 1 year soft minutes (playing mostly as a winger), 2 years cutting the mustard, Many years of Gravy or a bust.

    Proper development of a prized Defensive prospect; 3 years AHL (or Euro pro league), 1 year Bubble, 2 years soft minutes, 2 years cutting the mustard, Many years of Gravy or a bust.

    From this model I take the following. Sign Smid and Gagner Oilers fans have earned some Gravy years players. Oiler will have to probably have to wait 2 more years for Nuge and Yak to hit Gravy when they do cheering for the team might be less masochistic.

    As Oilers are likely to draft a highly rated Center in the draft and rush the development curve, making for painful NHL viewing again next year I hope that he is given good veteran line mates, some sheltered minutes and most of the starts on the wing.

    My RE for management be it Tambo or his replacement is; Don’t mess with the top six of RNH, Eberle, Hall, Gagner, Paajarvi and Yak. Don’t resign Whitney and Bullin. Sign Smid. Anything else they do would be gravy for me. I would miss Hemskey if he left and doubt we would see fair return but not begrudge him a bright future. He has been the shinning light in a dark decade of Oilers hockey.

    Also for a ‘great hands’ player, Eberle, has done very well coping with a hand injury. Expect Poutine from him next year, lots of gravy with top shelf cheese.

  99. denny33 says:

    freedomisamyth,

    Top 6 forwards ( perimiter players? -except for Hall ) and no goal production at even strength….

    Welcome to my club ….you will find it very, very lonely here.

  100. godot10 says:

    freedomisamyth:
    Long time listener, first time caller. You guys have finally driven me crazy enough to register and actually say something

    So with that being said, I’m going to beat my own horse now! Ultimately I think there’s only one thing that would change this team from being mediocre/bad: improving the even strength scoring. I think there’s a lot of things affecting this, but the biggest effect would be the top 6, and it kind of baffles me that so little focus is put on that by most people. Sure the kids are putting up numbers, but mostly on the PP. I don’t think it’s an issue with the kids not being good either – they are going to be very good. However, I think the top 6 is terribly unbalanced (and the bottom 6 isn’t that much better). The kids get very few easy goals because none of them go where they need to go to score them enough. Watch 90% of their plays and you see either entering the zone, trying to make a sweet pass and turning it over, trying to beat 2 defenders and turning it over, managing to get a cycle going that lasts a long time but never generates any real dangerous plays because they keep looking for the pretty play. Even when they manage to get a good chance, there’s never any one who manages to get a rebound, because the defense easily pushes them away from the goal, or over powers their stick and gets the rebound out of danger.

    The top 6 are pretty much all the same players. No one hangs around the net, drawing defenders attention. Even if they are actually around the net, the defenders lay off them because they know if there is a rebound, the oilers forwards are easy to push out of the way and take the puck away from. Most goals in the NHL are scored because there is traffic out front and the goalie is either screened on the shot, or someone puts in a rebound. Gagner and Hall have the most points because they consistently go to the net more than anyone else, and shoot when it’s appropriate (when people are causing havoc in front), but even they aren’t enough. If each line had someone who had some hands, and was a hand full for the defense to control, that would leave a lot more room for the skill players to snipe goals, or swoop in to get rebounds. Every game there are tons of great opportunities where all it would take is someone jumping on a rebound for a wide open net, but there’s rarely anyone there.

    Adding to this, they turn over the puck so much that it’s hard to get real offense going too – skill players turn over the puck more than most players, because they try the hard plays. That’s fine if you have guys who don’t turn over the puck to play with them, but if all you have are guys that try and make plays and turn the puck over, you end up with an awful lot of turnovers.

    Also, improving the puck moving ability of the defense, and the forwards being able to get the puck moving out of the defensive end without panicking and dumping it out as fast as they can, would help a lot too for getting more opportunities, but that’s something that does actually get brought up a lot here, so I won’t harp on that anymore than it already has been. I think it would also have less impact, because it doesn’t help that much when you get down to the offensive end and can’t do anything anyways.

    The lack of even strength scoring, and the turnovers is a product of the forwards having to do much work because the defense is so bad.

    The incompetence of the defense trickles through the entire scoring food chain.

    The Oilers skill forwards would get the pucks on their tape at speed if the defense were better, and they would be in a more advantageous position against the opposing defense. Which also would reduce the turnovers, and would also allow the Oilers skilled forwards more access to the scoring zones in the offensive end.

    The Oilers lack a first pairing defense. That is the crux of the problem with the team. Petry and Smid is an adequate 2nd pairing, and Schultz-Schultz is an adequate 3rd.

    At a minimum, the Oilers need to add two 2nd-pairing level defensemen next year, or players who can grow into that fairly quickly.

    Pronger used to be able to put a tape-to-tape pass on Hemsky’s stick with Hemsky in full stride. His line had much less difficulty getting to the kill zone, if you can make that pass and put the opposing defense on its heels even before making first contact.

    How often does Hall or Paajarvi or Hemsky get hit with a pass in full stride. That would expose most NHL defenses. The problem is not the size of the Oilers forwards. The problem is the defense.

  101. freedomisamyth says:

    hunter1909,

    I didn’t say they shouldn’t worry about the 4th line, but jesus, bringing up the 4th line 10 times a day every day is tiring to say the least when in the end it’ll have a small impact on whether this team makes the playoffs or not if the top lines can’t produce.

    Also, the subtext of my post, is that yes, management hasn’t done what they need to do to make a winning team. The problems with the team are mostly because the team doesn’t have the right personnel, one way or another.

  102. spoiler says:

    spoiler:
    No problem with the kids’ offense… I think you have misrepresented the concerns there, LT.

    Outscoring is the issue among the lines that play 50+ minutes of the game.

    The easiest way to solve it and where they’ve lagged is converting shots/chances, but it’s not the only way.

    Sorry, nutty day at work…

    Woodguy: So what’s the other ways?

    There are two other ways in general…

    1. Create more shots/scoring chances and conversion rate be damned

    2. Limit the opposing team’s scoring (either by reducing their opportunites or the conversion of said opportunities)

    And of course, any improved combination of the three will work as well.

  103. cabbiesmacker says:

    eidy:
    cabbiesmacker,

    I hope the target for a UFA is Viktor Stalberg out of Chicago.

    I’m very sorry but you can’t have him. Not the kind of player Oiler’s management targets anyways.

    Here’s a nice big pile of steaming Jamal Mayers instead.

  104. freedomisamyth says:

    godot10,

    I agree that the defense’s puck moving ability definitely doesn’t help, but honestly I don’t think they are so bad at it that it kills everything else. Hell we’ve seen the oilers with even worse puck moving ability in the past and still had better offense (I think they were worse last year at that myself). Petry, Potter, Whitney and Schultz can all move the puck pretty decently.

    I never said the problem was the size of the oilers forwards anyways. Any size player is fine as long as they can play the role that is needed effectively. That leads me to another narrative that we see so often here: that it’s not bigger players that the oilers need, it’s better players. I think that whole argument is a complete red herring. I think most people who say we should target bigger players are saying that because they are usually more effective at the role that the oilers need filled: someone who isn’t boxed out of the crease like they were a little girl by your average NHL defenseman and can get a rebound or screen the goalie, or win more battles. If a smaller player can do that much better than what we have, then great.

  105. Bag of Pucks says:

    denny33:
    freedomisamyth,

    Top 6 forwards ( perimiter players? -except for Hall ) and no goal production at even strength….

    Welcome to my club ….you will find it very, very lonely here.

    Count me in for membership. Very worrisome how easily RNH and Eberle are getting pushed off the puck in the O zone against tougher comp this year. For two ‘elite’ players, they’ve basically disappeared at even strength without Hall on their line.

    Yak’s development into a possession beast will make a huge difference to this team – when he figures it out.

    And wouldn’t it be great to have a C with size and saucer passes to pair with Eberle?

    Trade Gagner (+2nd if you have to) for a Top 4 D
    Trade Hemsky for a Power Forward
    Draft MacKinnon

    Hall>RNH>Yakupov
    Power Forward>MacKinnon>Eberle
    Paajarvi>Horcoff>FA
    Harti>FA>Brown

    Top 4 D>Smid
    Petry>Schultz Jr
    Klefbom>Schultz Sr

  106. spoiler says:

    RIP, Wayne Fleming. Your stay with our squad was brief and perhaps marred by the pungent odour of onion belt, but your contribution to the world of hockey is undeniable. You will be missed. Sleep well.

  107. asiaoil says:

    freedomisamyth,

    The 4th line matters because they are bleeding goals like crazy when they are on the ice. If the kids match up with the toughs and do OK and then the 3rd/4th lines piss it all away against the other team’s chumps – it’s a problem – and a very fixable one unless mgmt is useless or you are purposely handicapping the team to lose.

  108. denny33 says:

    For people who think the Oilers are “progressing”…..

    From Mr. Matheson of the Edmonton Journal..

    Only 9 wins outside of the shootout….besides the win against Chicago – we have beaten Colorado 3 times. Columbus, Dallas and Nashville….

    I mean – if that does not show a team rising up – I don’t know what would….

  109. godot10 says:

    Who would swap the Oilers top nine forwards for the current top nine the Canucks are playing? Nobody.

    What is the difference? The Canucks 5 really good NHL defensemen, and maybe 5 better than any at the level the Oilers currently defensemen are playing at.

    The Oilers forwards are always running into a massive headwind, because the Oilers are 2 NHL defensemen short, and each pairing is being forced to play at one level too high.

    So you don’t waste money on Jokinen. You use every spare cent on defensemen.

  110. spoiler says:

    asiaoil:
    freedomisamyth,

    The 4th line matters because they are bleeding goals like crazy when they are on the ice. If the kids match up with the toughs and do OK and then the 3rd/4th lines piss it all away against the other team’s chumps – it’s a problem – and a very fixable one unless mgmt is useless or you are purposely handicapping the team to lose.

    But the kids aren’t at EVs. That’s his point…your “if”.

    The 4th can use some improvement, but it won’t matter much to Wins and Losses till the kids vaunt.

  111. kinger_OIL says:

    Tanking this year is a no-brainer: short season, another high draft pick: load up in the summer. Why do costly trades to get an extra 5-10 points maybe, when you can let the core grow, get a high draft pick, and figure out in the off-season where you are and what to do? To think that in a compressed schedule, where every day is crazy, marginal teams are going to be able trade themselves better isn’t prudent. An astutue owner of a team that is developing for sure would think along this line. Plus the Oiler’s fans, like the Leaf fans, show up to all the games, regardless, so there is no sense of urgency.

  112. cabbiesmacker says:

    godot10:
    Who would swap the Oilers top nine forwards for the current top nine the Canucks are playing?Nobody.

    If you’re taking futures then of course nobody would swap the kids for aging Mary Kate, Ashley, and Kesler.

    If you’re talking who wins a series or 7 out of every 10 games? Canucks in a heartbeat.

    Yes their d is better but so is their goaltending and forward corps.

    Anyone who thinks the Oiler fix is limited to a) forward b) defence c) goaltending d) coaching is smoking the drapes. It’s a combination of all and the blame lays squarely on management.

  113. godot10 says:

    asiaoil:
    freedomisamyth,

    The 4th line matters because they are bleeding goals like crazy when they are on the ice. If the kids match up with the toughs and do OK and then the 3rd/4th lines piss it all away against the other team’s chumps – it’s a problem – and a very fixable one unless mgmt is useless or you are purposely handicapping the team to lose.

    The 4th line is bleeding goals because the defense is bad.

    Brule and Pouliot were bleeding goals too in Edmonton. They didn’t in Phoenix, because Phoenix had 6 NHL defensemen.

    Fraser bled goals in Edmonton, but didn’t in Chicago and doesn’t in LA, because they had 6 NHL defensemen.

    It would be nice if the Oilers had better 4th line players, i.e. better forwards at the sub-million dollar price point, but that is not the problem with the team.

    The 4th line bleeding goals is a symptom of the real problem, a shortage of actual NHL defensemen.

    Wasting money on Jokinen does not solve the problem. It only makes it more difficult to solve the problem because the salary Jokinen brings makes it more difficult to get the extra two NHL defensemen the Oilers need next year.

    The Oilers already have better players than Jokinen at Jokinen’s price point.

  114. FastOil says:

    leadfarmer:
    godot10,

    I’ve been saying that for sometime, but no one listens.They keep beating on the bottom 6 players.There is a reason that teams like Phoenix and Nashville are better than us, even though their forward core is marginal at best.Its called defense, and defensemen that can spring the offense.There is a reason we get only a couple odd man rushes a game.Think about it.Why does a team with so much speed not get more breakaways.Its because no one can get the puck and pass it well enough to hit the forward in stride.

    Agreed. I think it’s also true that when a team is playing well, everybody plays/looks better. Look at Oduya. Seems like an Allstar this year on the surging Hawks. He was terrible not that long ago IMO.

    A team playing it’s system well distributes work load and pressure, which really benefits rookies and lesser players. The Oilers on most nights are the exact opposite, and they have 2.5 defensemen that aren’t seriously limited players.

    I don’t expect much change unless the brains begin to value what matters and allow players to play the way they do it best, instead of wanting everyone to play tough, and having guys that can only play tough and do nothing else. When I watch the young guys try to battle on the boards, they look caught between trying to win the physical battle and doing what they naturally want to do – result on ass in 1-3 seconds. They should be encouraged to come up with the puck by whatever means, always win possession, and for the size and types of forwards we have, it should be by guile, treachery and finesse.

    Wanting players to be something they aren’t leads to constantly losing value in players. Asking them to play differently than they are best at, watching them play poorly, then moving them for squat or letting them walk. I think a good team maximizes performance out of players and trades them at max value if they don’t want that type of player. A good team plays the style that suits the roster and changes the roster if they don’t like the style.

  115. DBO says:

    Late to the party, but what the hell?!? Did I actually read that we shouldn’t pick up a guy to play on our third line because Ryan Smyth is our 3 LW? Or that getting him may hurt us cap wise? Or that he isn’t big enough? WTF? For nothing we can pick up a 29 year old two way winger, who plays PK and PP, has scored 30 goals (and is a consistent 40-50 pt man), can play wing or centre (and wins 58% of his draws) and is a Finn (LT you must be salivating). Yes he is struggling this year, which is why he is FREE!!!!!!!!! Seriously people. a $3 mill cap hit is not a problem this year or next. He is an upgrade on anyone else we have at 3 LW, he is an actual NHL player with experience, which also means one of our AHL level players does not play (which may be the most valuable part). if you want he can play 4C if needed, but him on the team means the kid line stays together and with Horc and Hemsky he will be a valuable asset.

    For you advanced stats folks, here are his numbers
    Corsi relative 6.6
    PDO 971
    on ice save % 918
    O zone start/finish 49.1/51.6
    SF/SA 31.1/29.2

    So, the puck goes the right direction when he is on the ice, he is having a down year and therefore is a value pick up, he is a vet, he can score, pk, pp, take and win faceoffs and is a true upgrade on 6 of our regulars (Smyth, Petrell, Jones, Belanger, Brown, Hartikainen). He is not expensive ($3 mill is not an overpay), he turns 30 in a month and therefore is not over the hill like a bunch of some of our vets,

    Pick up Jokinen, right freakin now. You can send a contract away very easily if needed, so if you get Dekayser you will have the room if needed. This player helps us even more next year as it allows the team to have options on making deals.

    Hall-Nuge-Eberle
    Jokinen-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
    Petrell-Smyth-Brown

    Best lineup we have iced all year. How is this even a discussion?

  116. freedomisamyth says:

    asiaoil:
    freedomisamyth,

    The 4th line matters because they are bleeding goals like crazy when they are on the ice. If the kids match up with the toughs and do OK and then the 3rd/4th lines piss it all away against the other team’s chumps – it’s a problem – and a very fixable one unless mgmt is useless or you are purposely handicapping the team to lose.

    You say that the 4th line matters because they are bleeding goals, yet the 4th line is comparable in +/- to the 4th lines of pretty much all the better teams in the league, in comparable ice time. All the 4th line guys are around -3 -4ish, and that’s the same as the 4th line guys on Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston etc etc. Note that I am not arguing that the plus minus means that they are as good as those 4th lines (obviously +/- is flawed) – I am saying that saying they are bleeding goals like crazy compared to the 4th lines of the rest of the league, is not accurate, and maybe oiler fans just think that because they don’t watch anyone else. If you replaced the 4th line we have with the one from any of the top teams, how much do you really think that is going to change your score differential? 4 goals? 5 goals? If you are lucky…

  117. Zelepukin says:

    DBO: How is this even a discussion?

    completely agree. Dump someone if contract limits are an issue.

  118. HugThePost says:

    They’ve been able to collect some nice pieces by way of simply being shitty, but have gone ahead and strapped anchors to them. Now, they are in this situation of burning through the ELC’s of their future with no progress to show for it and a bunch of contracts they might not get anything for.

    Lowe’s history is that he sometimes acts on emotion rather than think when a sober second thought is needed (see Comrie trade, Smyth trade, hot pursuit of Healey, Hossa). Let’s all hope he doesn’t do it again through Tambo and tells him to trade one of the Wonder Kids for some name brand NHL player on the decline, just so we have a name brand NHLer in the line up.

    Nobody is arguing that they should stand pat, but they’ve done enough managing without thinking. Now is the time if there ever was one to be very careful and make prudent well-thoughout moves to improve the team.

    I’m not sure they have it in them to do so, but here’s hoping. They are on the verge of becoming this generation’s NYI.

  119. bookje says:

    Zelepukin: completely agree. Dump someone if contract limits are an issue.

    So, given the CBA, how do you dump a contract? You can’t just fire people and you can’t buy people out until summer. You might be able to get someone to take your garbage contracts, but its likely not easy. This is why smart teams don’t load up on Hortachuk contracts.

  120. Dee Dee says:

    Compliance buyouts for anyone who is a Center or Defender doesn’t make much sense right now cause the Oilers need more of them, one does not add by subtracting. Resign Smid, keep Gagner please, unless a trade results in a clear upgrade.

    In a better world the management would be served their walking papers, and it would be interesting to see if that gave the team any sort of lift. Follow that by letting Krueger select/replace any assistant coaches he see’s fit. The “Suck” switch has been turned on for 7 years and with each passing moment it gets harder to turn it off. The fact that the club is performing at the level it’s at with the talent they have is a clear indication that management has failed. Utterly failed.

    Let khabibulin and Whitney go, spend their salaries wisely.

    Let Smyth serve out his last year at his natural position and wait the contract out. At this point in his career he is not the problem or solution, and no one is outplaying him yet.

    Horcoff, same.

    If you can get something decent (center or defenceman) for Hemsky, let him go.

    If the owner is so blind to the problems in his organization that he is unwilling to do what’s required then he deserves whatever fate is delivered to him. If nothing changes in management then watching the arena empty will serve as the final wakeup call for our distant owner.

  121. godot10 says:

    DBO:

    Hall-Nuge-Eberle
    Jokinen-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
    Petrell-Smyth-Brown

    Best lineup we have iced all year. How is this even a discussion?

    That first line has a $15.75 million dollar cap hit next year.
    The second line has a $13.5 million dollar cap hit next year.
    The third line has a minimum $10.25 million dollar cap hit next year.

    So that is $39.5 million on the top three line. Top three lines and the goaltender take you to $43 million,

    4th line, three press box players, backup goaltender…estimated cost. $7 million (Ryan Smyth is $2.25 of that…so the other six guys, I am budgeting less than $5 million.)
    (Belanger, DeKeyser, or Klefbom would be well above $1 million)

    So that takes us to $49 million, so 6 defensemen have to come in at $15 million.

    J. Schultz $3.75 million
    N. Schultz. $3.5 million
    Jeff Petry $1.75 million
    L. Smid $4 million.

    And one is over already with 2 defensemen to go, one has only $3 million dollars left.

    How in effing hell does one improve the D with Jokinen on the roster, with only $3 million left to two top 4 type defensemen?

  122. DBO says:

    godot10,

    thought we went through this, but most of the rookie bonuses don’t count against the cap next year.

  123. godot10 says:

    DBO:
    godot10,

    thought we went through this, but most of the rookie bonuses don’t count against the cap next year.

    Rookie bonuses don’t count against the cap if they are in the AHL or in Europe. If they are in the NHL, they do.

    Point me to the provision in the MOU which says otherwise.

  124. DBO says:

    godot10,

    Sorry, thought the talking heads on tv had said that. I would still like Jokinen. Find a way to make it fit up front. I still expect them to move Hemsky for a “gritty” player. Not saying it is better, but a Brouwer costs around $1.5 mill less and brings a lot of what we lack. Add in Jokinen, SMyth to 4 LW, Lander at C and Brown, you can add some D. And as much as 2 top 4 d would be nice, there are none as UFA’s, so getting them means moving players in a trade (so cap hit), so adding those players may not cost too much extra then the player moved (see Hemsky as one perennial option it seems).

    And to be honest, i don’t care about next year. i care about this one. If they really want to make a run, then you add players to improve your team. Taking a run by adding free players means you do not sacrifice the future (in players, not cap). In the off season they can make moves to clear cap or space if needed. If they don’t want to make run, then move out a whole lot of players. Just make a freakin decision.

  125. godot10 says:

    godot10: Rookie bonuses don’t count against the cap if they are in the AHL or in Europe.If they are in the NHL, they do.

    Point me to the provision in the MOU which says otherwise.

    i.e. if Ryan-Nugent Hopkins were in the AHL, his bonuses don’t count, whereas if a regular player with a $3.75 million dollar salary were in the minors, a couple of million of that salary would count against the cap. But if RNH is in the NHL, his bonuses count against the cap.

  126. godot10 says:

    DBO:
    godot10,

    thought we went through this, but most of the rookie bonuses don’t count against the cap next year.

    i.e. When capgeek stops counting the bonuses, I might believe you, but ELC bonuses, according to the MOU, only don’t counted if the player is loaned to the AHL or to Europe.

  127. rickithebear says:

    asiaoil: I understand that Eberle is a quality young player – the Joey Mullins comp is excellent. But with outr depth at RW – if he was able to get us a quality young top pair dman – then I would trade him in a heartbeat.

    I showed draft success for rounds 1 to 4.
    you get a quality player in the first 10 picks 90% of the time.
    picks 10-20 53% of the time.
    picks 20-40 40% of the time.

    We have to build up organizational depth before we can dump the likes of Eberle.
    We have a group of young d that will cycle thru in the next 3 years.

    with a forward base of

    Hall-Horc-XXX
    MP-Gagner-XXX
    XXX-RNH-Eberle

    The we want to be feeding players who have shown in the AHL. they may be able to replace a player @ much lower dollars.

    our top 5 pker’s are:
    Gagner
    Smyth
    Horcoff
    Belanger
    Petrell
    Lander has shown signs he may be able to replace Belanger on PK and 4th line.

    Rajalas is lighting it up in the AHL.
    A PPG player since his return in Jan.
    77% of the offence @ Even. 77%
    Thats a 30+ point player just playing evens in NHLE.

    You do not move players until they are pushed out cap wise or our depth pushes them out.

  128. Woodguy says:

    godot10: Next year:
    Hall, Eberle $6 million to cap each
    Horcoff $5.5 million to the cap
    Gagner, Hemsky, $5 million to the cap each, minimum, because Gagner is probably more
    Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov, $3.75 million each
    Smyth, $2.25 million
    Paajarvi, $1.5 million

    Those are your top 9 forwards already.

    And you want to add a 10th forward at $3 million (a 3rd or 4th line forward) at $3 million, and say you have enough money for Smid and another top 4 D.

    The problem with the Oilers is D.The above forwards are NOT the problem.

    The season is effed.The important thing is not to go out and eff next season by doing something stupid, like claiming Jokinen on waivers.

    You are quoting cap numbers with full bonus, which you do not have to do anymore.

    Surely you accrue for the ones that are possible/probable, but that’s not the full amount.

    Next year the Oilers have 14 players at $43.4MM signed leaving $20.8MM for 9 players.

    However,

    $8.5MM of that is bonus cushion.

    So in reality they have 14 players signed at $34.9MM leaving $29.3MM for 9 player, or an average of over $3MM each.

    Buyout expected of Eager so you can add $1.1MM to that.

    How much of the $8.5MM is attainable?

    I have no idea, but I would be surprised if it was even 50%.

    This team can afford to compliance buy out Belanger and pick up Joker for the season he has left at $3MM AND go after good D.

  129. godot10 says:

    Woodguy: You are quoting cap numbers with full bonus, which you do not have to do anymore.

    Where in the MOU does it say that bonuses do not count against the cap? Capgeek still says they count against the cap.

    Point out the provision which says that bonuses don’t count against the cap for a player in the NHL.

  130. Lowetide says:

    We did something on this a week or so ago, and speeds told us some of the cap would be counted but there’s some leeway (can be tacked on following year) with the new cba. I’ll try to find.

  131. Lowetide says:

    speeds says: (Edit)
    January 6, 2013 at 5:45 am

    We don’t have all the details yet, obviously, but one of the rumored changes was performance bonuses not counting against the floor. If that is the case, EDM actually has to spend a couple million dollars just to reach the floor, so maybe they look at tossing some money at one of the top UFA D available – from looking at cap geek, I think that might be someone like Brett Clark, Campoli, Spacek or Eaton. Or trade, with them picking up some money.

  132. Lowetide says:

    speeds says: (Edit)
    March 17, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    LT: all of 19, 93, and 64 have cap hits of 3.775 mil, and the bonuses count against the cap. EDM couls spend above the cap with the bonus overage, but that is a limited overage.

  133. Lowetide says:

    speeds says: (Edit)
    March 17, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Lowetide,

    They will be tight to the cap, but EDM can reasonably use a good chunk of their bonus overage room with very little worry about losing cap space the following season.

    The maximum bonus overage allowed is ~4.8 mil, while EDM has ~8.5mil in bonuses tied up in their 3 ELC players. That means that even if they maxed out their bonus overage, they’d only start losing cap space in the 14/15 season if those 3 players earned more than 3.7 mil in bonuses To do that, one of the players would need to be earning his “B” bonuses which is pretty rare, for 2 or all 3 to do it would be extremely unlikely. And that’s ignoring that EDM probably wouldn’t be looking to max out their overage usage to begin with. But going 2 mil over the cap is a lower risk proposition.

    That said, if you ran into injury problems that number could creep up, so I’m guessing EDM wouldn’t really want to be flirting with using a ton of that room, but they might consider using a bit of it.

  134. OilLeak says:

    Picking up Jussi Jokinen is a no brainer move.

    Jokinen is a positive possession player both in terms of Corsi and Corsi Relative, which automatically makes him better than the majority of the Oiler roster.

    Jokinen is 29 and his on-ice sh% is just a hair over 5% and PDO is sitting at 971 so that is due to regress to normal levels.

    Jokinen’s cap hit is a reasonable 3 million and is signed for next season plus he’s FREE – WHY IS THERE EVEN A DEBATE ABOUT PICKING UP THIS PLAYER?!?

    Waive or buy out the bottom of the roster, I don’t care, I want real hockey players on this team!

  135. godot10 says:

    Lowetide:
    speeds says:(Edit)
    January 6, 2013 at 5:45 am

    We don’t have all the details yet, obviously, but one of the rumored changes was performance bonuses not counting against the floor. If that is the case, EDM actually has to spend a couple million dollars just to reach the floor, so maybe they look at tossing some money at one of the top UFA D available – from looking at cap geek, I think that might be someone like Brett Clark, Campoli, Spacek or Eaton. Or trade, with them picking up some money.

    The MOU say ELC performances bonuses don’t count against the cap if the player is NOT in the NHL (i.e. in the AHL or in Europe). I think RNH, Yak, Schultz are going to be in the NHL.

    The MOU says ELC performance bonuses cannot be used to get to the cap floor.

    Nowhere does it say they don’t count against the cap if the player is in the NHL.

    There are no changes to the Performance Bonus cushion in the MOU, except that the cushion will be applicable in the last year of the CBA to provide certainty in those year.

  136. Ribs says:

    Anyone know why Jokinen is on waivers? It seems like a no brainer to pick him up, but is there something wrong with him? Does he want to go play in Europe or anything? What’s the deal? I’m finding it hard to believe that Carolina was just too lazy to find someone to trade him to. Surely he would have fetched a bag of peanuts from someone if everything was good.

  137. Lowetide says:

    godot10: The MOU say ELC performances bonuses don’t count against the cap if the player is NOT in the NHL (i.e. in the AHL or in Europe).I think RNH, Yak, Schultz are going to be in the NHL.

    The MOU says ELC performance bonuses cannot be used to get to the cap floor.

    Nowhere does it say they don’t count against the cap if the player is in the NHL.

    There are no changes to the Performance Bonus cushionin the MOU, except that the cushion will be applicable in thelast year of the CBA to provide certainty in those year.

    That post was speeds from January, so he was guessing. The other two posts I quoted above are more pertinent imo to conversation

  138. godot10 says:

    In perusing the new MOU and the 2005 CBA, I don’t see where going over the cap with performance bonuses doesn’t reduce your cap the following year by the amount you go over. I don’t see the provisions “speeds” talks about, about paid performance bonuses taking you over NOT counting against your cap the following year.

    Please point out the clause that says using the performance bonus cushion doesn’t count against your cap the following season.

  139. Woodguy says:

    VanOil,

    Tambo the Terrible

    I like it.

    Will use it.

  140. VanOil says:

    Woodguy,

    Hopefully soon it will be about a previous era!

  141. Lowetide says:

    godot10:
    In perusing the new MOU and the 2005 CBA, I don’t see where going over the cap with performance bonuses doesn’t reduce your cap the following year by the amountyou go over.I don’t see the provisions “speeds” talks about, about paid performance bonuses taking you over NOT counting against your cap the following year.

    Please point out the clause that says using the performance bonus cushion doesn’t count against your cap the following season.

    I can’t point it out, I was attempted to bring clarity but clearly have not. Apologies.

  142. Woodguy says:

    godot10:
    In perusing the new MOU and the 2005 CBA, I don’t see where going over the cap with performance bonuses doesn’t reduce your cap the following year by the amountyou go over.I don’t see the provisions “speeds” talks about, about paid performance bonuses taking you over NOT counting against your cap the following year.

    Please point out the clause that says using the performance bonus cushion doesn’t count against your cap the following season.

    Your missing the point.

    Teams used to have to include all possible performance bonuses in their cap calculations.

    i.e. 900K + $3MM bonuses = $3.9MM cap hit.

    Now they can just use the 900K number towards their cap calculation.

    IF bonuses paid put the team over the cap, they lose that amount the next year off their cap.

    So a smart team judges which bonuses are likely and accounts for them.

    You are accounting for all possible bonuses of which a large part will not be paid.

  143. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Your missing the point.

    Teams used to have to include all possible performance bonuses in their cap calculations.

    i.e. 900K + $3MM bonuses = $3.9MM cap hit.

    Now they can just use the 900K number towards their cap calculation.

    IF bonuses paid put the team over the cap, they lose that amount the next year off their cap.

    So a smart team judges which bonuses are likely and accounts for them.

    You are accounting for all possible bonuses of which a large part will not be paid.

    This was my understanding as well. Thanks, WG.

  144. Woodguy says:

    So RK is running:

    4-10-83
    28-93-14
    91-89-64
    Flotsam

    I guess seeing 4-93-14 absolutely dominate the 3rd had a real impact.

    Brutal.

  145. godot10 says:

    Woodguy: Your missing the point.

    Teams used to have to include all possible performance bonuses in their cap calculations.

    i.e. 900K + $3MM bonuses = $3.9MM cap hit.

    Now they can just use the 900K number towards their cap calculation.

    IF bonuses paid put the team over the cap, they lose that amount the next year off their cap.

    So a smart team judges which bonuses are likely and accounts for them.

    You are accounting for all possible bonuses of which a large part will not be paid.

    Please point out the provision in the MOU or the CBA that says this.

    Where is this in the MOU? Or if you have a text of the new CBA, point it out please.

    As far as my reading.
    1) It is NOT in the MOU
    2) It is NOT in the previous CBA.

    Where is the actual text?

  146. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: This was my understanding as well. Thanks, WG.

    I’ve read it in a few different places, but I can’t find the exact part of the MOU either.

  147. Woodguy says:

    godot10: Please point out the provision in the MOU or the CBA that says this.

    Where is this in the MOU?Or if you have a text of the new CBA, point it out please.

    As far as my reading.
    1) It is NOT in the MOU
    2) It is NOT in the previous CBA.

    Where is the actual text?

    Where’s the exact part that states they have to account for the bonuses?

  148. VanOil says:

    Sometimes being an Oilers fan means finding joy of ex-Oilers on there new teams. I cheered for many of them durring the great sell off in the early 90s and continue to do so with players like Penner. There are others though that provide brilliant schadenfreude. I caught Cam Barker playing for the Canucks the other day, he only cost them a goal and not a game. He is wonderfully awful to watch playing for anyone silly enough to employ him other than the Oilers.

    Could imagine trading Whitney to a West Coast team and them signing him for a couple year. I could just picture our talented young winger blowing his doors off knowing ankles can’t turn. Normally you hate trading in your conference so they player does not come back to haunt you. Which I agree with if we were to trade someone like Hemskey. Whitney to the West would be great strategic thinking planting the seeds of other teams destruction.

    Please let the Oilers score first, even if we don’t win, Hitchcock will commit crimes against good Hockey if the Blues score first.

  149. VanOil says:

    Darren Pang loves hockey. He is a bit kooky and a hommer but does bring enthusiasm and insight to the broadcast. It is the Blues Broadcast team for me tonight. I trust this form to keep me update on the crap SN espouses during the intermission.

  150. godot10 says:

    Woodguy: Where’s the exact part that states they have to account for the bonuses?

    Nothing changes in how they account for the bonuses, except when the player is not in the NHL.

    Since one can no longer bury a player in the AHL or in Europe, the MOU says how performance bonuses are handled when players are NOT in the NHL. Otherwise, my reading, is that nothing has changed.

    For ELC, the performance bonuses count against the cap if the player is in the NHL, but don’t count against the cap if the player is in the AHL or Europe.

    So unlike a regular player on a $3.75 million dollar contract, the $2 milliion something above the $900K allowance, counts against the cap wherever the player is. But for an entry level player like Schultz or Yakupov, the bonus part of the $3.75 million collar contract only counts against the cap if the player is in the NHL.

    I think some people are being confused that this means the performance bonuses don’t count against the cap. They do.

    The other thing that might be confusing people is that bonuses don’t count towards reaching the cap floor (but they count towards the cap max).

  151. hunter1909 says:

    Just tuned 3:00 in and already oiler’s(they don’t deserve a capital O anymore) playing egg delivery service, while their jailhouse boyfriends from St Louis enjoy themselves at will.

    This is the worst time of the season(again) for these young self entitled clowns; as they play not to get hurt and naturally, end up getting hammered for their avoidance.

    MPS will be aok, he’s the only member of the team doing anything worth mention.

  152. Lucinius says:

    Just once I’d like SN’s Key’s to the Game’ be honest, and for the Oilers they could put; ‘Don’t suck’.

  153. hunter1909 says:

    At this languid time of the oiler season one can wonder exactly just how much of a factor the shortened season is/was with the bigshot 6 cup winning management super team.

  154. VanOil says:

    Lucinius:
    Just once I’d like SN’s Key’s to the Game’ be honest, and for the Oilers they could put; ‘Don’t suck’.

    Hope about a more the realistic ‘Suck Less’. ;)

  155. Lucinius says:

    VanOil,

    Don’t crush my dreams.

  156. hunter1909 says:

    I would love to see Hemsky traded, before he’s run out of town.
    His skillset is redundant.
    No offence to his fans, but honestly has there ever been less of a big game player than Ales? Jay Bouwmeester comes to mind.

  157. hunter1909 says:

    Nice acrobatic display by Khabibulin.

    Eberle on his way to shutting up the most stupid of Oiler fans: his critics.

  158. Woodguy says:

    godot10: Nothing changes in how they account for the bonuses, except when the player is not in the NHL.

    Since one can no longer bury a player in the AHL or in Europe, the MOU says how performance bonuses are handled when players are NOT in the NHL.Otherwise, my reading, is that nothing has changed.

    For ELC, the performance bonuses count against the cap if the player is in the NHL, but don’t count against the cap if the player is in the AHL or Europe.

    So unlike a regular player on a $3.75 million dollar contract, the $2 milliion something above the $900K allowance, counts against the cap wherever the player is.But for an entry level player like Schultz or Yakupov, the bonus part of the $3.75 million collar contract only counts against the cap if the player is in the NHL.

    I think some people are being confused that this means the performance bonuses don’t count against the cap.They do.

    The other thing that might be confusing people is that bonuses don’t count towards reaching the cap floor (but they count towards the cap max).

    I’ve read that part too, but that part talks about bonuses earned and the player is on loan.

    There has been too much written about teams not needing to account for them for their cap hit to dismiss it.

    I’ll look deeper too.

  159. Lowetide says:

    Eberle (Hall, Nuge)

    The kids are alright.

  160. Lucinius says:

    A goal! A goal! A goal!

    Oilers shooting 50% tonight! Sustainable!?

  161. VanOil says:

    funny how that line works, funnier still watching Bullin do the Hasselhoff burger dance.

  162. Ribs says:

    hunter1909:
    I would love to see Hemsky traded, before he’s run out of town.
    His skillset is redundant.
    No offence to his fans, but honestly has there ever been less of a big game player than Ales? Jay Bouwmeester comes to mind.

    You just want to
    trade him so that you can cheer for him when you’re rooting for the opposing team!

  163. Lucinius says:

    Khabbi bails out Gagner after an absolutely brutal moment in the defensive zone. Gagner needs Sedin treatment; stacked offensive zone starts.

  164. Lowetide says:

    Love Samwise but that was horrible play.

    Protected account 31s

    Oilers listening to offers for Smid but are still talking APG
    Expand
    Tracy Tracy ‏@TreenasOil Protected account 1m

    #kings interested in Peckham
    Expand
    Tracy Tracy ‏@TreenasOil Protected account 2m

    Boston Carolina and Wings interested in Whitney APG
    Expand
    Tracy Tracy ‏@TreenasOil Protected account 3m

    #Leafs interested in Khabibulin talks still on APG

  165. Lucinius says:

    Ribs,

    As a big fan of Hemsky.. I kind of want him traded as well, with the condition that he get traded to a good team. The guy deserves to be a not-shitty team. He’s served his time in hell.

  166. Lucinius says:

    Lowetide,

    Trade Peckham, Whitney and Khabbi now, then! Like, NOW, now.

    And sign Smid! Gah..

  167. Ribs says:

    Fussy Britches sez…..

    #Leafs interested in Khabibulin talks still on APG

    Boston Carolina and Wings interested in Whitney APG

    #kings interested in Peckham

    Oilers listening to offers for Smid but are still talking APG

  168. Ribs says:

    LT on the ball, hehe.

  169. Lucinius says:

    Ugly, ugly change.

  170. Ribs says:

    Hemsky’s not even 30 yet. He’s got a ways to go before he needs to be traded to a contender. Unless there is some stellar deal out there, it’s best to keep the guy.

  171. Lucinius says:

    Ribs,

    Best for the Oilers, yes. Best for Hemsky? Not likely.

  172. Ribs says:

    Whitney playing with his snowshoes on again, I see.

  173. Lowetide says:

    Well they’re ahead, that’s good. I don’t think they get out of Missouri alive, unless it’s Kansas. If it’s Kansas, then they don’t get out of Kansas alive.

  174. Ribs says:

    More Fussy….

    Oilers looking for a Center have had talks with the #Blue Jackets interested in Letestu APG

    #Oilers listening to offers for Jones and Petrell APG

  175. Lowetide says:

    B & P hasn’t been overly accurate lately, but I do recall 2011 free agency and she was spot on.

  176. VanOil says:

    Does any our MOU experts here know if the RFA compensation rates are going to change this summer?

    I ask because mainly I like the drama of the offer sheet, you can screw your opponent win or lose.

    I also would like the Oilers (after signing Smid and Gagner) offer sheet Tanev in Vancouver. He is a young Dman just starting to cut the mustard as a top 4 option on much better D line than Oilers field. MacT has coached him in Chicago. Vancouver are facing a cap crunch and if we kept the offer under the 2nd round pick number we could win. Even if we drafted a Dman in the 2nd round that works out we would be waiting 5 years for him to work out. Tanev can play top 4 minutes for the next 5 years.

  177. Lucinius says:

    Why did our coach separate Yakupov and Paajarvi?

  178. BlacqueJacque says:

    1-0 Oilers, yet you can spot the loss from a mile away unless Allen proves to be a sieve and Khabi plays very well.

  179. FPB94 says:

    I like Letestu a lot. For once it seems they’re going in a good direction, not chasing whales or outliers.

  180. Lucinius says:

    Eberle!

    2-0 when it should be 1-1.

  181. Lowetide says:

    Eberle (Nuge, Hall)

    The kids are alright.

  182. VanOil says:

    What ever Eberle had injected into his fingers today well done. Eberle’s stick handling before the goal was the best I have seen since the injury.

  183. cabbiesmacker says:

    Have to trade Eberle now. His value has never been higher.

    Sheesh. Some mothers kids

  184. Ribs says:

    Beauty pass. They probably should never separate those two ever again.

  185. geowal says:

    “Eberle has stepped back but is on par with what we established as reasonable back in the fall.”

    Now he’s where we expect him to be :)

  186. VanOil says:

    Lucinius:
    Why did our coach separate Yakupov and Paajarvi?

    Jones is too good of a defensive forward mentor for young Yakupov to pass up.

  187. Lowetide says:

    Hall (Eberle)

  188. delooper says:

    When did Eberle learn to skate like that?

  189. Lucinius says:

    Hahahahahaha. I think I should stop watching now, while we’re winning.

  190. hunter1909 says:

    No need to get embarassed against these punks, but it’s unravelling quickly for St Louis.

  191. Rebilled says:

    We had 3 goals on 7 shots.

    Jake Allen probably had something to do with it.

  192. Lowetide says:

    Jake Allen has been lights out.

  193. nelson88 says:

    Nice to see Khabi upping his trade value. Rollie 2006 return?

    Your best players outscore the other teams best players and you have good chance to win. Shocking.

  194. Rebilled says:

    TENNIS FEED ANYONE ELSE?

  195. Rebilled says:

    little early. that was weird though.

  196. Derek says:

    Top notch production values as always, Sportsnet.

  197. hunter1909 says:

    I’ve got an idea. oiler’s(somehow) get Porter and Chris Stewart.

  198. VanOil says:

    Jones could not handle a Yak pass. Surprise surprise.

  199. Lucinius says:

    Gogo angry Smid!

  200. hunter1909 says:

    Blues had better watch out for those fancy Dans out there. Hall looks like he wants to run the score up.

    OTC had the best suits ever. Colossal suits.

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