BARONS V STARS 9.5.13

The minor leagues are a funny thing. Teams send their prospects to the AHL and expect a return one or two years down the line, but it’s never a straight line of development and the top picks sometimes fall away. Last summer, I ranked the AHL level prospects on the top 20 like this:

  • #4 Martin Marincin
  • #6 Teemu Hartikainen
  • #7 Anton Lander
  • #9 Tyler Bunz
  • #11 Tyler Pitlick
  • #12 Olivier Roy
  • #16 Colten Teubert
  • #18 Brandon Davidson
  • #19 Phil Cornet

No Toni Rajala there. No Taylor Fedun either. Safe to say they’ll be on the summer list when we get around to end at the end of next month. I’d say Marincin will move up, Hartikainen should be good for about the same number and Lander is likely to remain in the top 10. Pitlick’s saving his season currently so is still in motion, Bunz stepped into an elevator shaft and Todd Nelson has placed Teubert in amongst the broken quart sealers and rusty nails in the root cellar. Davidson should move up, Cornet we’ll see. I suspect we’ll see Mark Arcobello and Kristians Pelss on the list too.

The second rounders like Lander, Hamilton, Pitlick and Marincin are being (for the most part) overrun by the kids chosen long after the suits left the party.

That’s why they play the games.

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38 Responses to "BARONS V STARS 9.5.13"

  1. Lowetide says:

    Cornet-Arcobello-Cheechoo, Rajala-Lander-Hartikainen, Green-Stretch-Pitlick, Hordichuk-VandeVelde-Tyrvainen

  2. Lowetide says:

    D-Pairs: Fedun-Marincin, Davidson-Stafford, Jones-Hotham. Yann Danis in net, Niko Hovinen backing up. #JoinTheFight

  3. nelson88 says:

    For a second there I thought Rajala was playing C until I realized you just copied these from elsewhere. See what your idiosyncrasies lead to ;)

    Roy stepped in an elevator shaft or Bunz? Roy just went down a floor or two. Meanwhile we are still trying to find Bunz’s remains.

    Great to see Davidson doing well. Even without the cancer comeback story there is something about that guy that just screams “going to beat the odds and have an NHL career”.

    Teubert a healthy scratch again or injured?

    Go Barons!

  4. Lowetide says:

    Nelson88: Definitely meant Bunz stepped into an elevator shaft. Goalies.

  5. cc says:

    LT, do you think Teubert has enough value to possibly get a struggling prospect out of another organization. Such as; Patrice Cormier (Win), Luke Adam (Buf), Jordan Caron (Bos) …

    Defenseman especially 1st round draft pick defenseman tend to hold value well past their expiration date.

  6. Lowetide says:

    CC: I think that’s exactly what he’d fetch, a ‘your problem for my problem’ type of deal. It’ll be interesting to see what the Oilers do with him. If they keep Teubert, suspect there’s an injury we’re not aware of and the club hasn’t mentioned (for obvious reasons).

  7. Lowetide says:

    Arcobello (Cornet) 1-0 OKC

  8. supernova says:

    LT,

    Listening to some media today out of Vancouver they seemed to think it was possible that Gillis would
    Be willing to move Alex Edler. They seemed to think that if they were able to get some young or physical forwards to add depth, that this would be a change that gillis would embrace as they have decent D depth and this might get them the required assets to either extend the window or hit the next level.

    Can you see Vancouver doing this?
    What assets do you think it would take from the Oil?

  9. Lowetide says:

    I’d be all over an Edler deal despite his struggles this season. What would the Oilers have to give? I’m not sure there’s a match to be honest, depends on what Gillis wants.

  10. Captain Happy says:

    Lowetide:
    I’d be all over an Edler deal despite his struggles this season. What would the Oilers have to give? I’m not sure there’s a match to be honest, depends on what Gillis wants.

    Giilis wants young BIG players who can play.

    The Oilers don’t have any.

  11. supernova says:

    I agree that I would be all over a Edler deal if possible, being a division rival makes it highly unlikely.

    I can see Philly being interested in both Edler or Big Buff in Winnipeg.

    Philly also has the right type of assets, they are also highly motivated and like to swing for the fences.

    A Couterier/ Matt Read combo with a prospect will certainly have either team thinking.

    I was quite suprised to hear this idea floated out, but when they cited the reasons why ( NMC amongst the reasons) it actually seemed plausible.

  12. misfit says:

    Gillis would have no shortage of suitors for Edler. We’d have to be offering something crazy for them to trade him to a team within the division.

  13. Lowetide says:

    OT GOAL! Lander (Rajala).

  14. fifthcartel says:

    I really wonder what they do with Rajala.

  15. Rondo says:

    Edler has had back problems and was playing with the best overall defence in the league . He is overrated.

  16. supernova says:

    Rondo,

    Problem is these defenceman are only available when they struggle.

    If you want a chance at a top 2 defenceman there is only a couple ways to get them

    1) draft and develop your own
    2) trade or sign and hope they improve
    3) salary cap problems or club is in financial problems

  17. Rondo says:

    supernova,

    Good point,

    I’d rather go after someone under the radar.

  18. tcho says:

    One of my favourite things about this site (and there are many! Thanks, LT), is how the readers/commenters are savvy enough to completely ignore the troll comment (see above) and continue on with a good conversation.

    And Supernova – great points about the 1-2 defencemen. If an opportunity arises (Pronger), you grab hold. Chances of it happening are slim though, so you need a strong alternate plan. 5 top 3-4 dmen might be a good plan b (a la Vancouver).

  19. 719 says:

    I think Paul Martin might be a more realistic trade target.

  20. Ducey says:

    Should the Oilers be interested in cast offs from VCR?

    Mason Raymond is a UFA and they likely want to move on. He would be cheap? and can take a pass and check. An Alberta boy.

    Booth has a huge contract and has had lots of injury problems but could likely be had for a song. He has some grit and could add 30 – 40 pts in a 3rd line role.

    Lapierre is an SOB but if he is your SOB it might not bother you as much. He is a UFA and could add some grit to the 4th line.

    All can skate and have some grit. You add in those three and its a huge upgrade over what the Oilers had in the bottom 6 this year.

  21. Ribs says:

    supernova: Problem is these defenceman are only available when they struggle.

    If Tyler Myers is available, does MacTavish make a bold move and pull the trigger? That contract could be a killer. I honestly haven’t seen enough of him to know how good he really is/can be. It sounds like he injured an ankle during the lockout. Did that play a part in his season? Will it in the future? Risky business.

    Man, I really don’t know how MacTavish is going to fix the defence. There’s just not enough of the type of guys that they are looking for out there. I’m sure glad there are some decent looking prospects in the system right now.

  22. VanOil says:

    Ducey:
    Should the Oilers be interested in cast offs from VCR?

    The only player I would target from the Canucks from an Oilers stand point is Tanev. The rest are too old, too expensive or too slow. I would of taken Schneider before the rest of the league figured out he was good about a year an a half ago, now I just want a decent backup for Dubey. Canucks will want to keep Tanev, as he is young, good and cheap. They have cap issues so you never know but I doubt they would willingly part with him, especially to a division rival.

  23. Lois Lowe says:

    As much as I hate to admit it, the one Canuck that would really fit the Oilers needs is Alex Burrows.

  24. nelson88 says:

    Regarding Rajala.

    They should either use him as a trade piece with value that has to be increasing (Connacher value?) or bring him, Ladner and Teemu up together next fall and give them some rope to run as a line.

    Two way C, budding power forward and shifty playmaker. Adjust their zone start and QoC as need be to let them develop.

  25. cc says:

    From the Vancouver guys, I’d be most interested in Lapierre. A big physical 4th liner that can play up a line. I’m not sure if MacT and Gillis would be willing to make a blockbuster deal (I’d categorize Edler as such) within the division.

    With regards to Raymond, I like him as a player but is he a significant upgrade to Horcoff or PRV.?I’d prefer they target grittier players like Bickell and Matt Cooke.

    I imagine Hemsky is gone and I hope they could target guys like; Nic Foligno, Shawn Matthias, Steve Downie as return. Hemsky is the better player but you need bigger physical 2/3 line tweeners. You also get an additional 2-3 million in cap space that can be spent to get another 2/3 line tweener.

    Would this forward group be good enough to compete:
    Hall-RNH-Eberle – Powervs.Power
    Bickell-Gagner-Yakupov – SoftMinutes
    Matthias/Foligno/Downie-Horcoff-PRV – TraditionalCheckingLine
    Smyth-Lapierre-Hartikainen-Brown-? – FourthLine

  26. Beaker says:

    cc:
    From the Vancouver guys, I’d be most interested in Lapierre.A big physical 4th liner that can play up a line.I’m not sure if MacT and Gillis would be willing to make a blockbuster deal (I’d categorize Edler as such) within the division.

    With regards to Raymond, I like him as a player but is he a significant upgrade to Horcoff or PRV.?I’d prefer they target grittier players like Bickell and Matt Cooke.

    I imagine Hemsky is gone and I hope they could target guys like; Nic Foligno, Shawn Matthias, Steve Downie as return.Hemsky is the better player but you need bigger physical 2/3 line tweeners.You also get an additional 2-3 million in cap space that can be spent to get another 2/3 line tweener.

    Would this forward group be good enough to compete:
    Hall-RNH-Eberle – Powervs.Power
    Bickell-Gagner-Yakupov – SoftMinutes
    Matthias/Foligno/Downie-Horcoff-PRV – TraditionalCheckingLine
    Smyth-Lapierre-Hartikainen-Brown-? – FourthLine

    Two things: 1)If you are sending Hemsky out after this year you are likely keeping at least 1.5-2 mil of his salary if you want anything significant back.

    2) No its not good enough. On a good team Bickell is a third liner for sure and Smyth shouldnt be lacing them up next year. If you were to grab 2/3 of the third line guys you mentioned there that would be enough to actually make a difference, that still is missing fixing the back end however.

    Actually I should rephrase all that… That would be good enough to me IF we had a backend that could hack it.

  27. supernova says:

    cc,

    I like your thought process, and your ideas.

    I still think that leaves us short a top 6 winger. If we could add those players but also add a Horton or clarkson we might be watching the oil In the playoffs.

  28. j says:

    Rondo,

    I think we should be targeting Burns out of San Jose. He was a coveted defenseman when signed by San Jose yet got injured for some time. He is being miscast as a forward this year so is clearly not in the top 6 d-men. His skating and hockey sense are surprisingly good as a forward. From memory, when he played for Minni he was electric.

  29. cc says:

    supernova,

    I’m more of the opinion that you get 4 2/3 line tweeners. Cheaper for cap management. Our top 5 I’ll call them would be Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov & Gagner. Then you’d have a middle 5 of Horcoff, PRV, Bickell, Lapierre and whomever we get in return for Hemsky. The bottom 4 players would be filled in with young guys (Lander, Hartikainen) and role players (Smyth, Brown). I’d prefer they sign a guy like Anthony Stewart or trade for a guy like Cormier to compete with Lander for the bottom of the roster spot.

    Beaker,

    I agree you would likely need to take 30 – 40% of Hemsky’s contract. I think that with the lineup you would have around 8 million to acquire/sign on defense prospects. Using Vishnovsky’s deal last year as a guideline you could probably acquire someone like Klesla, Hejda for 2nd round picks. Both Phoenix and Colorado have alot of defenseman. Or perhaps you could even get Paul Martin out of Pittsburgh for a 2nd and a 2nd tier prospect like Musil. And still with cap space to try and get a Scuderi, Streit or Gonchar.

    I would consider Bickell to be a 3rd liner when this team is competitive. If Nickusin (sp!) is available @ 7, would a 2nd line of him, Gagner & Yakupov not be scary in 2 years? Then you’d have a quality third line at a reasonable rate.

    Essentially, I’m thinking there’s creative ways to be competitive other than just throwing money at Horton or Clarkson or Clowe. The biggest problem the Oilers will have is there not the only one’s going to be in on those players. If they make guys like Bickell, Lapierre, ect … their priority they will likely be more successful. The Oilers goal isn’t to compete against Chicago next year it’s to catch teams like Vancouver. Who were running guys like Hansen, Higgins, Kassian in their top 6. Based on that I think that Bickell is comparable.

  30. LMHF#1 says:

    Can we keep the “tough guy” cowards like Downie and Lapierre off of this team please? I really don’t want to have to boo a regular Oiler.

  31. supernova says:

    cc,

    I agree with what you are saying there, i just don’t think that is a playoff line-up.

    Lets say Bickell comes in and replaces Jones production from the prior to years. I really like the addition of Lapierre, he would be a good fit because of face-offs and being a pain to play against.

    I think they need to add 3 forwards that can play regularly if not 4.

    If it isn’t a top 6, it would be two top 9′s that can elevate with Magnus as well as Lapierre.

    If i follow your thinking to me it would be Bickel, Lapierre and ______. If it’s not Horton, Clowe or Clarkson. Maybe its Stalberg, Torres or someone who is bought on a compliance buyout.

    I like your thinking just think we need to add enough players that forces Lander or Smyth to only be on the team with injuries.

    I also agree that it will be scary what Horton, Clowe or Clarkson get. There is a long line-up for those 3, and we might win by not signing them.

  32. supernova says:

    CC,

    what do you think it would take to sign these guys contract wise in term and dollars.

    Bickell at this rate might get a Ward/ Pisani contract.

  33. supernova says:

    LMHF#1,

    I normally can’t stand these players either but the problem is the oilers need one of these guys that starts scrums or rides that line. Oilers have to lead the league at having no scrums or one guy being pushed around will his teammates skate away.

  34. LMHF#1 says:

    supernova:
    LMHF#1,

    I normally can’t stand these players either but the problem is the oilers need one of these guys that starts scrums or rides that line. Oilers have to lead the league at having no scrums or one guy being pushed around will his teammates skate away.

    Nah. There are guys who start and finish scrums. That other teams are actually scared of and that will fight if challenged. That’s the kind of guy you want if you feel the need for the type.

    Personally I think we should begin work on cloning Dave Brown.

  35. supernova says:

    LMHF#1: Nah. There are guys who start and finish scrums. That other teams are actually scared of and that will fight if challenged. That’s the kind of guy you want if you feel the need for the type.

    Personally I think we should begin work on cloning Dave Brown.

    Wish i could agree with you, those players barely exist. Steve Macintyre is as tough as they come and even the toughest guys in the league are scared to death of him, but he doesn’t play in the league because no one takes the fight.

    I have never liked the cooke, Lapierre, ruutu type of players but i think the Oilers need one of the pesky players in their forward corps. Plus a guy or two like Mike Brown who will drop the gloves.

    Oilers are far to easy to play against they need players that get other teams of their games.

    I would love clutterbuck and Dorsett.

  36. cc says:

    My guess for salary cap for the free agents we are talking about is;
    Bryan Bickell I’d say 2.5 – 3 Million is his range. I wouldn’t go much beyond 3. It gives the flexibility of moving him to the 3rd line. I worry if the Hawks win big he’ll get an big overpay.
    Max Lapierre I’d say he’s in the 1.5 – 2 Million Range. Essentially the replacement of Belanger. I like these types of players. Reminds me of Ken LInesman, Esa Tikkenan, Dale Hunter. He doesn’t have that type of talent but you need shift disturbers.
    Stalberg is a good name, similar to PRV. I’m thinking he gets north of 3. Again if the Hawks win he’ll get an overpay (Stanley Cup bonus).
    Dustin Penner is a guy that will probably get around 3 – 3.5 million. I like him as a player, but don’t think he’s coming back. I could see him staying in California (Ducks/Kings).
    I think Clowe, Horton and Clarkson are all getting in the 4 – 5 million range and on multi-year deals.
    I also like these guys in the 1 – 2 million range. Comeau, Nystrom, Cooke (shift disturber).

    There’s also the two big European’s Antropov & Ponikarovsky that might be good to help mentor Yakupov and might come cheap.

    If you look at Bickell’s Pts/60 the last 3 years he’s on par with Horton, Clowe and Clarkson @ 5×5.
    Player: 12/13 – 11/12 – 10/11
    Horton: 1.9, 2.3, 2.3
    Clowe: 1.5, 1.2, 2.2
    Bickell: 2.2, 1.5, 1.9
    Clarkson: 1.328, 1.5, 1

    That doesn’t take into account their 5×4 Pts/60, but we don’t need to fix the PP.

    I doubt that any team will get two of the above players on the list. Does it get the Oilers into the playoffs. I don’t know, I’m guessing they need to catch Vancouver to get 4th in the division. Alot will depend on what happens in SJ and whether Anahiem is really as good as they played this year. I think that the class of the division next year is the Kings.

  37. supernova says:

    cc,

    I have been on the Bickell bandwagon for awhile (My brother-in-law is a huge blackhawks fan)
    He actually likes Bickell, alot more than Stalberg.

    I think we are very much on the same page for needs and players in the forwards.

    I would actually be okay with a overpay on $$ for one of Clarkson or Horton as long is its not a overpay on term as well.

    Lets say we get Lapierre @ 1.75 per year for 2 years.
    And Bickell @ 2.5 million per year for 4 years (i think he will be looking for term)

    I would be fine with Clarkson or Horton at 5.5 Ish for 2 years.

    Who do you see as fixing our D?

    I think we will see availablity in the trade market of players like

    Goligiski, Eric Johnson, Byfugilien, Del Zotto.

    none of these are ideal but we need to upgrade one piece at a time.

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