FARM WORKERS 2013

Each year, I look back on the AHL season for Oiler prospects and see if there are any clues in regard to development. This season has been peculiar, mostly because the lockout saw many of these kids spend time in Buck Owens country. There was some progress made, let’s see how it compares to the past, distant and recent.

A couple of years ago I used Brian Conacher’s book to give us a guideline for minor league players and their development timeline. That post is here. Let’s have a look at the rules laid down there and see how they apply to the 2012-13 OKC Barons. Last year’s look is here.

  1. Men who are over 30 and come out of the minors to establish (0r re-establish) themselves are pretty much a thing of the past. You’ll find the odd goalie or defenseman but unlike the orginal 6 era very few teams have enough depth and free agency makes it impossible to keep them on the farm. Which is a good thingBARONS 12-13: Yann Danis (31) got into three games, perfectly matching hockey’s past. 
  2. Pretty much everyone who is in the AHL past (say) 21 has some issues and is going to do some meandering (this is universal from 1965 through 2009). Barons 12-13: If we exclude Hall and co from the lockout, you bet. Even guys like Paajarvi are working on something (although he’s made solid progress, a reflection of the wisdom of keeping most of your prospects in the AHL for a  significant portion of their entry level deal). 
  3. We shouldn’t expect Rob Schremp to play more career games than Sam Gagner or Andrew Cogliano. Whatever that line in the sand is, that line sticks. BARONS 12-13: I think Paajarvi is going to have a long career, but that’s a guess and he has certainly played enough in the AHL (72 games now) for there to be a gap in GP compared to kids who never played in the minors. 
  4. No minor league regular is likely to do anything incredible like play in 1,000 NHL games. It is a rare thing for a player to spend a couple of seasons in the minors and then go on to a 1,000 NHL game calibre career. Barons 12-13: Paajarvi’s played 163 at age 21, he’s certainly ahead of most AHL players at that age. I think he might be that rare item, but we’re still a little ways from knowing if he’ll be an everyday player on a contending team. Let’s mark him down as a possible outlier and check back  each season until he’s 25. If he’s 400+ games by then, I think he’ll have a good shot at 1,000 NHL game. 
  5. If you haven’t established yourself as a prospect of interest by 22 you are in trouble. The players who have graduated to useful NHL careers have at least played some NHL games by the end of their entry level deals. Barons 12-13: Sure, agreed. I think Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Marincin, Lander and now Rajala have done enough to be considered NHL prospects. Pitlick, Hamilton, Pelss, Davidson, Roy, Bunz etc are not yet there but have at least a little time.
  6. Exceptions are college men. Playing 4 NCAA seasons means turning pro at 22, meaning a “late start” for some quality prospects. Barons 12-13: The obvious recent examples are Jeff Petry and this past season Justin Schultz, I think Taylor Fedun is probably on the outside looking in but that’s not established. Young C Andrew Miller wil be a player to follow from this category next season. This is an area Edmonton should be extremely aggressive in moving forward, it’s a great way to increase the depth of that 20-22 year old organizational cluster. 
  7. A large group of players on the current team could be described in the “tweener” division. History tells us we’ll have our answers on men like Schremp, Spurgeon, Roy and Reddox very soon. It also tells us we already have our answer on Colin McDonald. Barons 12-13: Last time it was Hartikainen, Omark, etc and now it’s Cornet, Arcobello, Rajala, Lander. Interesting that Colin McDonald changed the answer. Good for him. 
  8. If we make a list of the minor league RFA’s each summerwe can probably as a group pick the cuts and be fairly close. That 50 man list gets a haircut every summer. Barons 12-13: Obvious flushes would appear to be Antti Tyrvainen, Alex Plante, Niko Hovinen, Colten Teubert. They haven’t completely cut ties with Linus Omark, but that’s likely to happen this summer too.  
  9. Daniel Cleary, Fernando Pisani and Jason Chimera became productive players in the toughest league on the planet. THEY are the stars in this study. Barons 12-13: Hartikainen, Lander and maybe down the line guys like Marincin are the ones with the best chance to find their way. The AHL is a lot about grinding the flaws out of the players and making them into useful role players for NHL coaching staffs. Play the role, keep the job. Ad-lib like Taylor Hall? See you in OKC. Oilers have passed on skilled men like Schremp and Omark over their recent history, mostly because the really talented offensive forwards don’t spend any time in the AHL. 
  10. For Rob Schremp fans, there’s exactly ONE pure offensive player who made it: Mike Walton. Barons 12-13: Omark didn’t make it, we’ll see about Rajala. The odds are stacked against him in all kinds of ways, not the least of which is the ridiculous NHL depth chart on the wings. 
  11. The future NHLERS are……..If I’m a betting man, these are the winners from the current group to be the new Cleary and Chimera. Barons 12-13: I choose Paajarvi, Lander, Hartikainen and Marincin. I know that’s a lot (four), but Paajarvi is a 10th overall selection, Lander and Marincin are second rounders and Hartikainen is one of those guys who beat his draft number. He’s 52 games into an NHL career that should never have happened based on where he was selected (6th round).  

little did he know

Today at 10am on Team 1260, it’s the Lowdown with Lowetide. Scheduled to appear:

  • Dave Jamieson, president of the Edmonton Rush. We’ll talk about the rumored move to Saskatoon, the impact of Mark Matthews and check in on an organization that appears to be on the verge of winning their first championship. 
  • Travis Yost, who blogs on the Ottawa Senators. We’ll talk about the ‘no-name’ Sens and their miracle run, and I’ll ask if there’s any way the can extend it against Pittsburgh.
  • Terry Jones from the Edmonton Sun. Last time we had Terry on, he talked about the Arena deal and proved quite prophetic. We’ll talk arena, Oilers, and I’ll ask if we see Katz spending to the cap any time soon.
  • James Mirtle from the Globe and Mail. Mirtle’s coverage of the Bruins-Leafs series was outstanding, we’ll sift through the wreckage and look forward to the summer.

Hope you can tune in, and remember the shows are archived almost immediately at TEAM 1260′s website under podcasts.

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57 Responses to "FARM WORKERS 2013"

  1. russ99 says:

    IMO, there’s one category you missed, Overage European players who need North American hockey experience.

    Other than the top Euro players, most NHL teams keep their prospects in Swedish, Czech, Finnish or Russian men’s leagues well past the age where a prospect finishing his CHL eligibility would need to sink or swim at the AHL or ECHL level.

    Thus, there’s a needed adjustment to smaller ice and NHL/AHL style of play, which pushes the age deadline of those players a bit higher before you can assume that they’re not going to make it.

    Marincin seems to fit that profile, Rajala too, and it’s a trend league-wide, not just with OKC.

  2. Lowetide says:

    russ99:
    IMO, there’s one category you missed, Overage European players who need North American hockey experience.

    Other than the top Euro players, most NHL teams keep their prospects in Swedish, Czech, Finnish or Russian men’s leagues well past the age where a prospect finishing his CHL eligibility would need to sink or swim at the AHL or ECHL level.

    Thus, there’s a needed adjustment to smaller ice and NHL/AHL style of play, which pushes the age deadline of those players a bit higher before you can assume that they’re not going to make it.

    Marincin seems to fit that profile, Rajala too, and it’s a trend league-wide, not just with OKC.

    Both Rajala and Marincin played WHL hockey, so they would have had time to adjust. I do agree that a player like Paajarvi would have had a period of transition though.

  3. TheOtherJohn says:

    Mightily intrigued by Rajala. He just keeps chugging along. Have no doubt on behemoth team: SJS/STL/LAK he’d get a really serious & long look. Not so sure on Oilers. He should, though, god knows the crap we had on our bottom 6 was not cutting it

    MPS is a top 10 pick, fact that he played 1 1/2 seasons in OKC is unfortunate but he’s seems now to have gotten it, I think.

    No one else has been developed on the farm to become an NHL regular so far. No one. At this point that is disappointing. Expect in 1 -1 1/2 years that disappointment will become conventional wisdom and the comment will be: who knew? Anyone who looked at our progressive development. In the AHL. Marincin is still developing. Lander may still be developing. The others in OKC, excepting B Davidson, are not trending well, even if you are not looking for them to score.

    Delighted to see Musil go down. We will soon know if his feet are a boat anchor at the AHL level. The rest of his game is quite nice but when your skating is adequate at junior & you need to move up 2 levels that is a red flag. Hope I am wrong. Hardcore Leaf fan once told me only difference between Bobby Orr & Jim McKenny was skating. I certainly agreed with him that Orr was a better skater (Ah, cough, .. Understatement) but I thought there were a few additional differences

    Unlikely playoff run OKC is on may jump start some long expected development. That would be great!!!

  4. Ca$h-Money! says:

    This is weird, and I have no evidence to back up my opinion, but please explain something to me.

    1. The detroit model is to keep players out of the NHL as long as possible… like until they’re 23.
    2. If a player isn’t an NHL regular by 21 (really applies more to forwards than dmen or goalies, but regardless) then they won’t be effective NHL players.

    Is there something I’m missing? Isn’t keeping Lander/Harski/Marincin/Rajala/PRV/etc. in the minors until they’re into their second contracts the goal?

  5. Lowetide says:

    TOJ: Petry spent half a season in OKC adjusting to the pro game, I’m inclined to give Nelson and the Barons credit there. Hartikainen, Lander, Marincin and the others were still in their entry level deals this season, some still have term.

    If the Oilers stay the course, I think the club will have success. The last time EDM had this kind of consistency they were in Hamilton developing Chimera, Pisani and others.

  6. Lowetide says:

    Ca$h-Money!: Is there something I’m missing? Isn’t keeping Lander/Harski/Marincin/Rajala/PRV/etc. in the minors until they’re into their second contracts the goal?

    Big difference between “has some issues” and “won’t be effective NHL players.” Right?

  7. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Lowetide,

    Fair enough. I’m just touchy because I have a huge emotional investment in Harski turning into a top 9 player. No idea why, but I do.

    Also, weirdly enough, really want to see Bigos turn into something. Makes no sense. It’s weird what cheering for the oilers will do to you over time.

  8. Mr DeBakey says:

    Davidson, Roy, Bunz etc are not yet there but have at least a little time.

    Interesting to see that Davidson is playing Top 4, while a guy like Teubert is sitting.

    we already have our answer on Colin McDonald

    The frackin guy looks like he’s finally made it. Talk about a long road.

  9. Ducey says:

    Ca$h-Money!:
    Lowetide,

    Fair enough.I’m just touchy because I have a huge emotional investment in Harski turning into a top 9 player.No idea why, but I do.

    Also, weirdly enough, really want to see Bigos turn into something.Makes no sense. It’s weird what cheering for the oilers will do to you over time.

    Bigos doesn’t look like he will be signed.

    But I know what you mean. I really want Marincin and Pitlick to make it and I have never even seen them play.

  10. RickDeckard says:

    Ca$h-Money!,

    When is the last time Detroit produced a top line forward or top pair dman? How many chl kids have they drafted that turned into something?

  11. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RickDeckard:
    Ca$h-Money!,

    When is the last time Detroit produced a top line forward or top pair dman? How many chl kids have they drafted that turned into something?

    One of the traits of Detroit is their Euro scouting… they go to Europe and find Franzen and Brunner, we find Petrell.

    Not sure about “top pairing etc” but recent(ish) useful picks from the CHL would be Quincey, Emmerton and Kindl…

  12. Ca$h-Money! says:

    RickDeckard,

    Not arguing with you, what I’m saying is more that people keep screaming for the “Detroit model” like it’s simply an extension of drafting whomever and having them season in the AHL for 7 years before bringing them up to the NHL.

    It’s clear that the “Detroit Model” is a good one. What is less clear is what the “Detroit Model” actually is. I think it’s over simplified in the minds of the masses. It’s clear to me that it’s some combination of player development/coaching/management savvy/flat out luck/commitment to mediocore goaltending. Not sure what the % are for each of those categories though. I feel like it’s begining to end though, and what makes me feel that way isn’t so much Lindstrom retiring, but rather overpaying Jimmy Howard.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ca$h-Money!,

    I think you are right that the “det model” — which is really short hand for success over a long period of time, ie., finding a way to win without the handicap of high draft picks — involves a lot of things, of which luck no doubt plays a role.

    I think a big part of it is that they beat the street on Euro players through much more aggressive scouting there than other teams.

  14. Bag of Pucks says:

    As a followup to the previous post on Mike Brown, I’m wondering if any of the posters who “don’t like this player type” can share why that is?

    I tend to subscribe to the theory that hockey is entertainment and anyone who’s ever attended a live game can likely attest to the fact that the majority of the fans in attendance seem entertained when a fight occurs.

    I get that societal attitudes about safety in sport are changing, but I find it curious that people can be lifelong hockey fans AND find fighting in the game to be distasteful. Has that aspect of the game always been repugnant to you or is it a fairly recent development / change in taste based on what we’ve learned about former fighters like Probert, Boogard, etc.?

    And if the aversion towards fighting is related to the safety issues, then how do you reconcile the other violent aspects of the game that can be equally or even more dangerous to players?

    I know the ‘code’ is a very contentious topic with some even doubting its existence, but I wonder if anyone’s noticed how demonstrably player attitudes have changed towards respecting the safety of their opponent since the introduction of the instigator rule? Hitting players close to the board, recklessly swinging sticks, and most worrisome of late, numerous examples of players carelessly swinging their skates after collisions. To this observer at least, it seems the game has become much more dangerous in the actual gameplay now that players don’t face the threat of an enforcer policing against reckless play.

  15. Mr DeBakey says:

    I’m wondering if any of the posters who “don’t like this player type” can share why that is?

    I don’t like this player type because, they’re bad at hockey.

    the fans in attendance seem entertained when a fight occurs.

    Most big goof encounters – the ones right from a face-off etc – are boring. Boring.
    Of course, I usually watch hockey sober.
    [Maybe that's my problem]

    it seems the game has become much more dangerous in the actual gameplay now that players don’t face the threat of an enforcer policing against reckless play.

    You may be right, but I doubt it. It sounds like you’re experiencing nostalgism.

  16. Rondo says:

    LT,

    Maybe you could interview someone from the London Knights, they have 2 potential players Oilers could pick if they trade down.

    Bo Horvat

    Nikita Zadorov

  17. Derek says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    As a followup to the previous post on Mike Brown, I’m wondering if any of the posters who “don’t like this player type” can share why that is?

    I tend to subscribe to the theory that hockey is entertainment and anyone who’s ever attended a live game can likely attest to the fact that the majority of the fans in attendance seem entertained when a fight occurs.

    I get that societal attitudes about safety in sport are changing, but I find it curious that people can be lifelong hockey fans AND find fighting in the game to be distasteful. Has that aspect of the game always been repugnant to you or is it a fairly recent development / change in taste based on what we’ve learned about former fighters like Probert, Boogard, etc.?

    And if the aversion towards fighting is related to the safety issues, then how do you reconcile the other violent aspects of the game that can be equally or even more dangerous to players?

    I know the ‘code’ is a very contentious topic with some even doubting its existence, but I wonder if anyone’s noticed how demonstrably player attitudes have changed towards respecting the safety of their opponent since the introduction of the instigator rule? Hitting players close to the board, recklessly swinging sticks, and most worrisome of late, numerous examples of players carelessly swinging their skates after collisions. To this observer at least, it seems the game has become much more dangerous in the actual gameplay now that players don’t face the threat of an enforcer policing against reckless play.

    I’m a long time fan of hockey and I am indeed entertained by fighting. I’m more entertained by winning however, and Mr Brown does little to contribute to that.

  18. rickithebear says:

    Detroit model , Chicago model. Blah BLah.
    Is not Luck

    All those models involve
    -a strong top #4-5
    -Any 32+ yr players making 2.25M+ better be in top 6 or part of the 13.5 milion #4-8
    -#8-12 players you let age in the AHL to around 23-26
    who are then greatful to be 8-12 for cheap money for 2-3 years in the NHL.
    Guys who junior point production is all good EVP in thier draft year.
    guys with a defensive prescence.
    Once they start to translate to the 20G range and 3M+ salaries you role in your next set of 24-25 year olds for the next 2-3 years.
    Chi:
    Brower
    Burish
    Kopecky
    Bickell
    Stahlberg

    We have our Top 4-5
    Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Gagner ?: for the next 7-14 years.

    Do Cornet (23), MP(22), Hamilton (22), pitlick(22) Martindale (22), Maccaron (21), Pelss (21)Kessey (21), Ewanyk (20) , Zharkov (19), Moroz (19), Khaira (19)
    Stay in the AHL till 24 and roll to Nhl at that time to fill 8-12.

    Horcoff 5.5M (average Pk, below Average FO, 3rd Comp
    Hemsky 5.0M (3rd comp, elite pp, No Pk)
    Smyth 2.25M (elite PK, top 40 EVP)
    Cannot be our #6-8. i would only keep the left winger.

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Mr. B covered a lot of it for me… but I thought I’d add a couple of nuggets.

    I have a soft spot for “personalities” in the game. Often, for whatever reason, the best personalities come out of the “enforcer” tradition — maybe their closeness to wrestling and the fact that they need any edge they can get to stay in the game pushes them toward the theatrical… I don’t know.

    And, I enjoy a good hockey tilt as much as the next guy.

    But I’d much rather have my personalities and fights come from actual hockey players who can keep their head above water 5v5 and maybe 4v5 reliably. Those have to be the minimum requirements. That and no staged fights.

    FWIW Brown comes the closest in the long time to clearing that bet… he’s not there, but he’s better, just like Hordichuk was better than SMac.

    I think the “it’s more dangerous now” line is bogus. There was an awful lot of spearing, elbowing, boarding, kneeing, etc. in the bad old days. Let’s not whitewash the history.

    And I think what, if anything, contributes to the any current problems has more to do with the speed of the current game and the hard equipment than with some psychological notion about lacking “enforcement”

  20. godot10 says:

    Ca$h-Money!:
    RickDeckard,

    It’s clear that the “Detroit Model” is a good one.What is less clear is what the “Detroit Model” actually is.I think it’s over simplified in the minds of the masses.It’s clear to me that it’s some combination of player development/coaching/management savvy/flat out luck/commitment to mediocore goaltending.Not sure what the % are for each of those categories though.I feel like it’s begining to end though, and what makes me feel that way isn’t so much Lindstrom retiring, but rather overpaying Jimmy Howard.

    The Detroit model is NOT a commitment to mediocre goaltending. It is a commitment to not signing a UFA free agent goaltender to a long high dollar contract.

    They stayed mediocre or great on short term deals until they were able to luck out and develop a homegrown slightly above average goaltender whom they have commited fair big dollars to over a long term (Jimmy Howard).

    I think this is the right model. You never go long term on a UFA goaltender from outside, because you don’t know how they will perform on your team. Going short term is fine. And you stay short term on the UFA market until you develop an in-house goaltender you are willing to go long term on. Or if one of those free agent goaltenders you signed short term fits like a glove, then you extend them long term.

  21. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    As a followup to the previous post on Mike Brown, I’m wondering if any of the posters who “don’t like this player type” can share why that is?

    If the player can actually play, I have no problem with it. Brown is still borderline. Team toughness is far more important than having a designated fighter. Fighting disappears in the playoffs because it is irrelevant to teams with team toughness.

    Lawsuits like the Boogard lawsuit and concussion issues are going to take fighting completely out of the game. The NHL, nor any league like the CHL, is going to be able to handle the potential long term legal liabilities. So it is a moot point anyway. The law and concussion issues are going to take fighting out of the game over time. Might as well make it happen sooner rather than later.

    The writing is on the wall….

  22. Bag of Pucks says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    I’m wondering if any of the posters who “don’t like this player type” can share why that is?

    it seems the game has become much more dangerous in the actual gameplay now that players don’t face the threat of an enforcer policing against reckless play.

    You may be right, but I doubt it. It sounds like you’re experiencing nostalgism.

    You may be right, but I doubt it. It sounds like you’re experiencing elitism.

    But seriously folks, I think the issue with the ‘code’ stems from the fact we simply don’t know if or how often the presence of enforcers in the lineup pre-instigator deterred players from behavior detrimental to the health of their opponents.

    If I was a player not particularly skilled at fighting in that era, it seems very clear that I would likely avoid exceedingly reckless play towards someone like Rick Middleton or Ray Bourque if it meant someone like Terry O’Reilly or Stan Jonathan would then look to punch my lights out. Certainly there were dirty players in that era that were not deterred by this, and that was an interesting element of the code. Players were essentially forced to endure a public shaming by ‘turtling’ when they failed to answer the bell in response to their taking liberties with the opposition. Certain players like Linseman and Tiger Williams made this an art-form, and as a result, they were often some of the most hated players in the league.

    Does anyone know of a site that’s correlated changes in penalty trends pre and post instigator? On a very basic level, if the implementation of that rule has had no effect on deterrence, the # of penalties called for ‘attack’ style violations (e.g. spearing, boarding, charging) should remain fairly consistent with the standard evolutionary trend? If however, those types of penalties seem to have markedly increased post instigator, that would seem to indicate a behavioral change away from deterrence, would it not?

  23. Bag of Pucks says:

    godot10</strongFighting disappears in the playoffs because it is irrelevant to teams with team toughness.

    Did you watch the Mtl/Ott series this year?

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Sedins on the the PK.

    Is that typical for them in Int. play?

  25. Lucinius says:

    Watching Canada/Sweden and…

    Our powerplay continues to make me cringe. They’ve largely reverted to a shitty set up that works in the NHL, but not on the larger international ice surface. Fucking Tippet.

    Also.. Duchene is a marvelous talent.. but boy is he a greedy motherfucker with the puck in this tournament. He’s passed up three (easy) passes for fantastic scoring opportunities to just do it himself and get mediocre chances.

    Canada’s reliance on that top line is also going to bite them in the ass. I know Ladd had a great year.. but not impressed with him in this tournament any time he’s faced a decent defense.

    Also; the Canuck Edler with the dirty knee — surprise?

  26. Lucinius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Yes, it is.

  27. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Did you watch the Mtl/Ott series this year?

    That was a result of tactics by Paul Maclean to get Michel Therrien to lose his cool and temper and make the Montreal Canadiens self-distruct. (An exception which proves the rule.) Paul Maclean knew Michel Therrien was capable of losing his mind. Therrien is a good coach with an easily triggered self-destruct button.

    Neither team was really a contender. The Eastern Conference is a horrible conference this year. The Oilers probably could have make the playoffs in the east.

    There is no way the Oilers would be picking as low as #7 if there had been inter-conference play this year.

    The Eastern Conference are the Pittsburgh Penguins, Henrik Lundqvist, and the Bruins (but only if the Bruins are having a good week). Probably only Pittsburgh and Boston would make the playoffs in the Western Conference this year.

    Ottawa’s luck ran out when Fleury couldn’t make it out of round 1. Pittsburgh will have a goaltender for all the games in the series with Ottawa.

  28. spoiler says:

    I don’t believe this has been publicly released yet, so keep it under your tinfoil hats, but I believe Bigos has been informed by the Oilers that he will not be offered a contract and he has been released into free agency.

  29. DBO says:

    So did Taylor Hall piss in Ruff’s cornflakes? Cause I just started watching the game and I haven’t seen Hall. is he not dressed? Becuase, you know Matt Read is better for sure.

  30. spoiler says:

    Oh crap, now I’m getting a conflicting story from the nephew… apparently this is a hate you one month, like you the next thing (typical NHL) and the Bigos camp is still hopeful he will get signed. Apologies if any of his family members read here and had a mini-coronary.

  31. Lucinius says:

    DBO,

    Hall is on the fourth line. Eberle is on the third line. Schultz is third pairing, but gets powerplay time (neither Hall or Eberle get powerplay time anymore).

  32. Ca$h-Money! says:

    spoiler,

    It’s been discussed, though I’ve never seen an official report.

    It makes me sad. He’s big… his names was Bigos… If only his first name wasn’t Kyle, but Gigantor or something else suitably awesome.

    He was the reach-pick minor leaguer I had in an obscure bet about who would make the NHL. Guy I bet with had Davidson (I think, don’t even really remember). I think there is a chance I lose that bet. That’s OK though, this guy has an actual honest-to-goodness official Patrick Thoreson Oilers jersey, so he’s due for a win.

  33. Bag of Pucks says:

    DBO,

    Been that way most of the tournament. Hallsy had a bad giveaway early in the tournament that led to a goal against. Ruff reduced his ice time significantly after that. I believe he worked his way out of the doghouse by Slovenia but I heard he made another bad giveaway in that game as well, though I didn’t see that particular tilt.

  34. Bag of Pucks says:

    godot10: That was a result of tactics by Paul Maclean to get Michel Therrien to lose his cool and temper and make the Montreal Canadiens self-distruct.(An exception which proves the rule.) Paul Maclean knew Michel Therrien was capable of losing his mind.Therrien is a good coach with an easily triggered self-destruct button.

    Whatever the cause, it’s certainly proof that fighting has not ‘disappeared’ from playoff hockey altogether.

  35. DBO says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    makes sense. and with ruff not seeing the West I assume he trusts the East guys he knows. He is a no nonsense guy, so you mess up and you sit. I’d rather Hall learns that over there, and next year is better two way for the Oil.

  36. Lucinius says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Not true. His turn over did not result in a goal against — that was Giroux (then Stamkos, then E. Staal, then Giroux again) for turn overs resulting in goals against. Hall had two turn overs in that early game that led to good chances against.

    Hall hasn’t been great in this tournament, but imo, a lot of that is him struggling to find his pace when he’s played the least of ANYONE on Canada.

  37. Lucinius says:

    Nice to see Eberle back on that second powerplay unit.

    Not a fan of Simmonds at all, though.

  38. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Did Hamhuis just trip D. Sedin in front of the net?

    Awesome.

  39. Lucinius says:

    Hamhuis with the bad delay of game penalty that gave Sweden the tying goal on the powerplay.

    Now Giroux with a horrible offensive zone cross checking penalty to give them the powerplay take the lead; Giroux has done this several times this tournament — taking horrible penalties that cost Canada.

    It never affects his ice time.

    I said this when Ruff was chosen; he is not a good coach for this kind of tournament. He’s overly relied on the top line and has refused to penalize his favourite when they fuck up. Like Giroux.

  40. Lucinius says:

    Figures Giroux then scores when Canada gets their top line out against the fourth line and third pairing of Sweden.

  41. Jordan says:

    Lucinius:
    Figures Giroux then scores when Canada gets their top line out against the fourth line and third pairing of Sweden.

    Guess the Hockey Gods love Giroux and want to make you look like a dick. =O

    I love it when life’s ironic like that. Always good for a laugh.

  42. Lucinius says:

    Jordan,

    I stand by my comments, though. Ruff has been very poor as a choice in this tournament. He’s made a lot of very questionable decisions. Tippet, a coach I really like, has also had a lot very questionable decisions with the powerplay that he runs.

    Giroux can score, I’ll give him that.. but he makes a lot of bone head decisions and takes penalties that hurt you. Also, by over-using the top line you’ll see them slow down; Stamkos has already had to bail on a few plays because he just looks gassed earlier and earlier in shifts.

    But its the second line that drives me nuts as a fan because its often been the third or fourth best line in terms of consistent offensive zone pressure, but because they get more ice time.. they get more production.

  43. FastOil says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Along with the instigator rule is the fact that players in terms of NHL etiquette can opt out of fighting, which they wouldn’t have done much back in the day. So can your tough guy even do anything if an opponent won’t fight?

    There is no benefit in having enforcers fight. They are almost all bad players so there is a cost in using them. The other problem is the league is clamping down on the psychos. So that deterrent is also disappearing.

    The best thing to do is have the best team possible, a deadly powerplay and lots of patience and self control. If the refs put the whislte away play harder until they have to call a penalty.

    And if possible find more skilled players that are mean. Regehr would not have and will not do to Hall (and probably Yak) what he did to Hemsky. Hall would do something to remedy the situation, possibly suspendable.

  44. Lucinius says:

    Sweden and their weird ass goalie changes.

    Edit: Ah, actually looks equipment related this time.

  45. Lucinius says:

    Not liking Canada’s chances in a shoot out against Enroth.

  46. Scotty LaDouche says:

    Why is the ref standing in front of and beside the net on Canadas shots?? All 3 times he was totally in an area the shooter could have used.

  47. Lucinius says:

    Wow. Duchene with a horrendous shoot out effort.

  48. Rondo says:

    Weird Sedins don’t shoot for Vancouver in shootout

  49. Lucinius says:

    And Canada is out.

    As is normal these days. Imo, bad coaching and personnel choices lead to Canada’s downfall again.

  50. Rondo says:

    I hear Stamkos can score , nevermind

  51. jake70 says:

    Lucinius:
    Hamhuis with the bad delay of game penalty that gave Sweden the tying goal on the powerplay.

    I don’t think even a minute before that penalty Crawford advising against playing Schultz and Dillon down the stretch because of inexperience.

  52. Bag of Pucks says:

    FastOil:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Along with the instigator rule is the fact that players in terms of NHL etiquette can opt out of fighting, which they wouldn’t have done much back in the day. So can your tough guy even do anything if an opponent won’t fight?

    It’s the implementation of the instigator rule that changed the ‘etiquette’ so players can opt out of fighting. Before the rule, if you ducked a fight or turtled, you were deemed a ‘chicken’ by the code. Now it’s considered reasonable to antagonize another player and back down short of a fight because you’re either avoiding a penalty yourself or duping your opponent into one.

    Everyone argues that the NHL is no more violent now than it was back in the day, but it’s important to make the distinction that the violence in the pre instigator era was most often between willing combatants. Either fighters vs other fighters or fighters policing dirty players. Players that didn’t want to fight had to by necessity play a clean Lady Byng game so they didn’t invite the rough stuff in turn.

    There’s no way a player like Matt Cooke hits Marc Savard like that in the pre instigator era because he literally would’ve had to fight Boston’s goon each and every game he played against them thereafter. That was the price to be paid (i.e. the code) understood by all players for doing something that egregious and dirty. Cooke can make that hit in today’s NHL because it’s well understood by all players that until you approach Cooke/Torres levels of repeat offender status, there are no serious repercussions for hits against helpless opponents – and now the repercussions come primarily from Shanny’s office and not policing on the ice.

  53. rickithebear says:

    Lucinius: DBO, Hall is on the fourth line. Eberle is on the third line. Schultz is third pairing, but gets powerplay time (neither Hall or Eberle get powerplay time anymore).

    I am looking to McTavish saying we wanted our players to win WHC but ruff choose to lose without them. So we will be sending them to OKC for playoff experience.

  54. Bag of Pucks says:

    Think it’s interesting that Gretzky is in favour of eliminating the instigator rule on a trial basis as well.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=359481

    Gretz was a huge beneficiary of the instigator rule. Slats had nuclear deterrents like Semenko and McSorley at his disposal, so the worst confrontation Gretz had to deal with was this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boJZQXFMHFU

  55. Bag of Pucks says:

    Sorry, about post should read “huge beneficiary of NO instigator rule…etc.”

  56. Rondo says:

    Feel bad for Eric Staal, I don’t think the refs were going to call a penalty until they saw Eric in agony.
    Dirty hit.

    The risk reward of these tournaments really needs to be questioned. Eric Staal could be out for a very long time.

  57. RickDeckard says:

    DBO,

    Ruff is a shitty coach that made his name by riding the best goalie of all time and playing boring low event hockey.

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