MAGNUS PAAJARVI RE 12-13: BORN TO RUN

Even in a losing season, an NHL team can collect any number of good arrows for specific players. In the case of this year’s Oilers, the redemption of Magnus Paajarvi is one of the sweeter results.

Magnus Pääjärvi  10-11

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.36 (8th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 3.45 (6th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 9th toughest among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: 12th best teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: 3.2 (7th best among regular forwards)
  • Zone Start: 51.6% (5th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 52.4% (4th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 180/8.3% (8th among F’s>100 shots)
  • Boxcars: 80gp, 15-19-34
  • Plus Minus: -13 on a team that was -52.

Magnus Pääjärvi  11-12

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.75 (12th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 2.84 (9th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 9th toughest among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: 11th best teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: 6.6 (3rd best among regular forwards)
  • Zone Start: 47.7% (11th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 49.9% (6th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 79/2.5% (10th among F’s>75 shots)
  • Boxcars: 41, 2-6-8
  • Plus Minus: -7 on a team that was -26.

Magnus Pääjärvi  12-13

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.54 (5th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 2.05 (9th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 6th toughest among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: 10th best teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: -1.6 (7th best among regular forwards) (-12.88 CorsiON)
  • Zone Start: 51.0% (7th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 55.3% (best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 75/12% (4th among F’s>70 shots)
  • Boxcars: 42, 9-7-16
  • Plus Minus: -1 on a team that was -15.
  1. What do these numbers tell us? He had his finest season. Best 5×5 season, he played 2nd level toughs, he had a reasonable CorsiRel and thank God his shooting percentage crawled from the wreckage. This was some redemption. The young man has earned this, it’s been a tough three seasons since coming over from Sweden.
  2. How could these numbers be better? Just developing, just doing it over and over again. Repeat, rinse, repeat. Guys like Paajarvi–or at least the role I think he’ll play–tend to grab the job at 23 or 24 and then go on a nice run. Pisani didn’t get the NHL job at age 25, it takes some time. Magnus is way ahead of the curve now, after this season.
  3. Why do you feel this way? Darcy (Woodguy) McLeod did a wonderful summation earlier this spring, I’ll defer to his post (it’s outstanding).
  4. Why did he get left behind? As a rookie, MP delivered a decent amount of offense based on role but he went backwards the following season. A rough start in his rookie season was met with patience, but in year two coach Renney sent him away for seasoning. Renney had some things going on the top 2 lines and didn’t want to worry over Paajarvi and Omark. The result was a worn down Smyth and a lost season for Paajarvi and Omark. I was generally strong on Renney, and do respect it must be a nightmare to bring 11 forwards who don’t shave along at the same time, but this was a case of opportunity missed imo.
  5. Krueger handled it differently? Well, I think Krueger read the results better. Even in his second season, Paajarvi was doing things that were useful (he was a bottom 6F helping the shot differential). Renney didn’t really find a role, but Krueger sure as hell did, and in fact Krueger used him more and more as the season wore on.
  6. Is there any hope for him as a top 6 forward? Sure, but probably not on the Oilers.
  7. What now? Oilers have Hall, Yakupov and Eberle as part of the top 6F group now, and unless I’ve missed it MacT is going to add a forward for top 6F this summer and that’s either a winger or a center to replace Gagner (who could move to wing). I don’t think he’s going to play top 6F, and I don’t think he’s going to get big PP minutes with this Oiler team.
  8. Will MacT trade him? Maybe. I’m more confident they’ll keep Paajarvi now than I would have been if Tambellini remained. Paajarvi does have some nice things going on, and I could see an NHL team asking after him. However, he’s a talented 2-way winger who fills a role, so if you’re going to deal him then that’s another hole created. Oilers have plenty of things to do this summer, I’m not sure adding new problems to replace old ones is a grand idea.
  9. How did Krueger use him? Top 6 minutes (6th) at EVs (12:18), 1:24 (PP) and 24 seconds on PK.
  10. What’s his likely role? Two-way winger who can PK, jump up the depth chart as required and pop 15-20 goals a year.
  11. He isn’t gritty enough. He’ll never be the physical force people want him to be, but Paajarvi went to the tough areas this season and scored some goals from there. He made a lot of progress, suspect we need to give Todd Nelson in OKC some credit for that, too.
  12. Why Born to Run? It’s about speed (Paajarvi’s crazy fast) and it’s about finding a better place than the one you’re leaving, without really knowing anything about what it looks like. I think that’s Paajarvi now. He might end up on a scoring, a checking line, or in Columbus. But he’s in a better place.

 

The Lowdown with Lowetide is back on the air at 10 this morning (Edmonton time) on Team 1260. Scheduled to appear:

I’ll also replay portions of Jason Gregor’s interview with Stu MacGregor this morning, and we’ll discuss that top 7 as it pertains to the Oilers.  You can reach me on twitter at Lowetide_, 101260 via text message and of course I read the comments in this blog during the show. Hope you can tune in!

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55 Responses to "MAGNUS PAAJARVI RE 12-13: BORN TO RUN"

  1. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    A good buddy of mine once said to me about “Born to run” something like “each time I listen to this song I get anxious. The music always seems to drive ahead of itself and I worry the song will never catch up.”

    It’s one of those comments that makes sense and sticks with you despite not making a whole lot of sense of the “clear and distinct” variety.

    I really enjoyed the maturation of Magnus this year. I feel pretty assured that if this was his first year in the NHL we’d all have a much better picture of the player, despite having seen demonstrably less of him over the past 2 years. Our expectations would be a lot more in line with reality.

    Really hope he isn’t one of the pieces heading away. Love the player.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Rom: I know what you mean about Born to Run. That guitar line is so awesome, still think it got a little buried in the studio version with all the overdubs. Springsteen’s voice is also better on the live versions, especially the pre 1986 live stuff.

    As for Magnus, MacT can do himself a massive favor by signing him to a reasonable multi-year contract and then slotting him in on the third line with Horcoff and. Bet he does it.

  3. "Steve Smith" says:

    it’s about finding a better place than the one you’re leaving, without really knowing anything about what it looks like.

    Fantastic writing, succinct, and dead-on in its description of both the song and the player. This is one of those nuggets that somebody (I can’t remember who) was complimenting you on a few posts back.

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Rom: I know what you mean about Born to Run. That guitar line is so awesome,still think it got a little buried in the studio version with all the overdubs. Springsteen’s voice is also better on the live versions, especially the pre 1986 live stuff.

    As for Magnus, MacT can do himself a massive favor by signing him to a reasonable multi-year contract and then slotting him in on the third line with Horcoff and. Bet he does it.

    I hear you on the album… there’s a lot of mythology around its creation, but for sure it seems Bruce had a sense of destiny in creating it and him and Landau probably overworked it in parts… but that’s what you get with genius: bursting suns and so forth.

    Multi-year like Petry and Dubnyk’s deals… a kind of wait and see, semi-commital deal? or something a bit longer?

  5. justDOit says:

    Still my favorite version of the song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxNf2uCxd3E

  6. Jordan says:

    I’ve been having a number of thoughts about where Magnus belongs on this team both next year and into the future. I think MP could be a decent 2nd line player, eventually. But I think right now he fits in better in a depth role where he can hone his craft a little more. On a deep team, he’d be on the 3rd or 4th line, to play hockey against lesser lights and excel.

    So, why not pencil him in on a 4th that actually plays hockey? All of Craig’s tidbits have suggested that he wants every line to play hockey, not just have 2 lines who can play and 2 lines who can try to break even.

    If 4 hockey lines is the goal… something like this seems almost playable, and certainly a better mix than we have seen in a good long while:

    4 – 89 – ???
    ??? – 93 – 14
    ???/64 – 10 – 64/83
    91 – 57 – 56
    94 – 13

    As far as who you get to fill the holes or what you give up to fill those holes… that’s a tougher question, and one that may not be as useful to speculate on. But, I think that line makeup, it provides not only the opportunity to add size throughout the lineup, but also have a full team of players who can play hockey at any end of the rink.

  7. Hammers says:

    Magnus is a perfect 3rd line winger . Can play either side . Can move up if injuries occur . Has size , speed .. Can score & draw penalties . He will get better . Would like to see him with Horc & Hemsky if McT can get that other winger . We could have 3 very good lines . Trade #7 for the winger or “D”

  8. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    justDOit:
    Still my favorite version of the song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxNf2uCxd3E

    thank you. that was fantastic.

  9. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Hammers:
    Magnus is a perfect 3rd line winger . Can play either side . Can move up if injuries occur . Has size , speed .. Can score & draw penalties . He will get better . Would like to see him with Horc & Hemsky if McT can get that other winger . We could have 3 very good lines . Trade #7 for the winger or “D”

    I’d love to see a 10-83-91 line… but I suspect that line will simply cost way too much for a 3rd line and MacT will face a lot of pressure to dump one of 10 and 83… and that means 83 is almost certainly gone.

  10. slopitch says:

    Paajarvi is exactly the kind of forward the Oilers should be looking to acquire. When I say they need more of his type, I mean that he could be considered a failed top 6 to the team (the Oilers) that drafted him due to lack of offense. When the Oilers acquired Moreau or Reasoner, both were a projected top 6 forward who weren’t bringing the top 6 offense so the teams that drafted them gave up on him. Cogliano appears to be another example except the Oilers are on the opposite side. Chris Higgins is another example. There are other types of players to go after (ie a late bloomer like Pascal Dupuis or Frans Neilson) but either way, Oilers need to be on the lookout for more Paajarvi’s not trying to trade them.

    The only way moving Paajarvi makes sense is if its for a top pairing d-man.

  11. Bar_Qu says:

    I think PRV is the Horcoff to Yak’s Hemsky. I really think the two kids would play well together and if you add in Gagner, I think it is a dynamite third line (more of a 2B line). No idea who centers line 2, but that isn’t the point. If you give the top guys their space to run, a second which can chew things up pretty well, then this third line gives you a good group to spell off the top two, and likely could pot a few at the same time.

  12. rickithebear says:

    when you look at the playoff teams there is a similiar structure on were the dollars are spent.

    17-18.5M for the top 3 salaries
    Kane 6.3M
    toews 6.3M
    Sharp 5.9M

    13.5M for salaries 4-7
    Hossa 5.275M
    Bolland 3.375
    Handzus 2.5
    Frolik 2.333

    8-14 alot of good .6-1.0M players.
    like chicago gets
    Brower
    Kopecky
    Versteeg
    Stahlberg
    Bickell

    Top3 Dmen 12-15M 14M AVG

    Oilers 13-14
    Hall 6.0
    Eberle 6.0
    Horcoff 5.5M 17.5M

    Hemsky 5.0M
    RNH 3.775 (???)
    Yakupov 3.775 (6.0)
    Gagner 3.2M (????) 1 5.75M 2.25M over

    The 1M players
    Smyth 2.25M
    Belanger 1.75M

    Top 3 D
    J. Schultz 3.775M
    N. Schultz 3.5M
    Smid 3.5M 10.775M

    Not hard to make decisions based on Successful cap Structures!

    4 year of MP in the 2.25-2.75M as the #7 works real well.

  13. jonrmcleod says:

    Off topic: I’ve been out of the country and not paying much attention to Oilers’ gossip lately, so I don’t know if there was any reaction to Yzerman saying, “There’s probably more than a top 3.” Of course, it’s impossible to know if he really believes that or not.

    http://thechronicleherald.ca/sports/1127804-yzerman-coy-about-tampa-s-no-3-pick

  14. vishcosity says:

    Glad to hear that you’re planning to discuss Peewee hockey.

    If our kids spend 6 years passing from their goal line up to the middle blue, and do so with no repercussions to the forwards, when they hit bantam, will they suddenly know that as a suicide pass? How do we teach “#61″ to pass along the boards when he turns 13? If its fine from age 6 – 12, what would make him not do that in bantam?

    Going from non contact to full contact is the dumbest idea I could imagine minor hockey to do. Glad my boy got through peewee with contact because now he’s functional in bantam. If he could have played contact hockey in atom, he probably wouldn’t have learned to go into the boards face first and with his head down.

  15. Gerta Rauss says:

    I’ll echo the comments posted above-PRV is exactly the type of player we should be adding to this group, not subtracting. Young player with defensive chops, can move up and down the lineup as needed, and most of all, on a good contract.

    I’ll be disappointed if they move him.

  16. Bruce McCurdy says:

    If they are going to introduce hitting partway through the cycle, there should be a ONE YEAR ONLY category in which it is done. This idea of putting kids new to hitting out against (often bigger) kids who have been doing it for a year is insane.

    I wrote a post touching on this & other age-related problems in minor hockey back in my C&B days which remains relevant. Here’s a link for those interested.

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/24/1263981/a-solution-to-the-birthday-bias-in

  17. vishcosity says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    I like your ideas certainly, and after reading would further suggest that with your system, the top tiers could introduce contact earlier. The boy was clearly ready for contact hockey at the age of 8, but alas, he was forced to learn bad habits for a few more years.

  18. LMHF#1 says:

    Supposing he’s inclined to play hockey, my son will be learning how to give and take a check shortly after he learns how to skate. This is important in terms of protecting yourself and learning to play the game correctly. It is unfortunate that hockey is changing so much for the worse (from getting rid of full-ice Micro Mites and not allowing teams to finish games that are delayed to coaches teaching kids to turn their backs due to the hitting from behind rule and this recent change) when it has the potential to be improved instead. They’re focusing on completely the wrong things.

  19. Lois Lowe says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    If they are going to introduce hitting partway through the cycle, there should be a ONE YEAR ONLY category in which it is done. This idea of putting kids new to hitting out against (often bigger) kids who have been doing it for a year is insane.

    I wrote a post touching on this & other age-related problems in minor hockey back in my C&B days which remains relevant. Here’s a link for those interested.

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/24/1263981/a-solution-to-the-birthday-bias-in

    I remember my first game in peewee getting absolutely destroyed by a bigger kid when I had my head down. The coach only said, “Welcome to peewee, Lois. Keep your head up.” I also ended up with three concussions from hockey and I quit after bantam.

  20. vishcosity says:

    Lois Lowe,

    Lois – If you had started in a checking league earlier, do you think you would have learned to play with your head up? Or are you saying that playing non contact hockey would have kept you in longer?

    Curious what you (and other minor hockey vets) think would have been better for you.

  21. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    I like Paajarvi, I really do.

    I have a concern though, with Paajarvi and Gagner being the only tradable roster players, who gets moved?

    I ask this simply because the Oilers have huge hole’s to fill, and not just the obvious ones, but all over the line up.

    If nobody wants to move.

    Gagner
    Paajarvi
    Hartkainen
    The kids-Klefbom now included
    Schultz Sr, Smid, Petry
    First round draft picks

    Where do these “roll” players and top pairing defensmen come from?

    If you don’t make significant changes are we not really just discussing the same team and hoping the players they have continue to get better?

  22. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    Another concern and I have to ask.

    Is this the best were going to see from Paajarvi or is there a better option internally or externally?

    Basically do the Oilers sell high?

  23. Rondo says:

    LT,

    I don’t think you will agree with Corey Pronman’s top 5 for the 2013 draft

    http://hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1521

  24. Lois Lowe says:

    vishcosity,

    I think that at any age, when there is a two year gap in terms of physical development, there are going to be big big problems introducing physical contact. Introducing hitting earlier or later does nothing substantial in terms of mitigation. The evidence from american football is that teaching kids to tackle “properly” when they are young does little to stop concussions, so I am not sure that teaching kids good habits is really going to be enough to make much of a difference.

    I think that top tier kids (well, their parents should decide) ought to be able to play the game with contact, in a competitive setting. If they’re playing AAA or on a rep team, I can understand the value of learning all of the game’s facets. I don’t see the value in body checking for anyone who plans on playing the game recreationally to be honest, I wouldn’t play in a beer league that allowed contact, and I don’t think I would want my kids playing A or B level hockey with contact at any age.

    I stopped playing largely because no one on my team was making the pros and our coaches managed the bench like Ken Hitchcock. I wanted to play the game I loved, not get berated by my teammates and coaches for making mistakes, and not get benched every time the game got close. It’s been over 20 years now, and I have finally gotten the itch to play again, but I have found a league for beginners and people who want to have fun first and foremost.

  25. Zjunior says:

    Well we are officially on the pee wee hitting tangent now so I’ll go along… Studies from Quebec show that starting hitting in pee wee, did not reduce the number of injuries in bantam. We just start getting injuries sooner. Start hitting in Atom and the injuries will increase at younger and younger ages. It’s is completely logical if you stop and think. The idea of “start ‘em young and they’ll learn to protect themselves” is just false. If NHL’rs can’t protect themselves, 11 year olds can?

    Keep hitting for the elite levels, and as Bruce suggests, when it is introduced, single year only!

  26. Captain Obvious says:

    The idea that when a player gets hurt it’s his fault for not protecting himself is the death cry of the reactionary.

    The way the game is played right now it is impossible to protect yourself. Head injuries aren’t accidents, they are the inevitable result of the speed and culture of the game. The NHL will either change willingly or it will have change thrust upon it. In either case, the age of open ice hitting as we know it is finished.

  27. LMHF#1 says:

    Captain Obvious:
    The idea that when a player gets hurt it’s his fault for not protecting himself is the death cry of the reactionary.

    The age of open ice hitting as we know it is finished.

    There is a massive difference between aiding prevention and “it’s your fault”. No one’s saying to nail people from behind or hit their head to teach them a lesson.

    Also – who says it is open ice hitting that’s the issue?

  28. justDOit says:

    I must have missed where it said that Paajarvi has been sent back to peewee…

  29. commonfan14 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: and that means 83 is almost certainly gone.

    Is he being bought out?

    Hemsky next year will be a 30 year old scorer who has put up 0.523 points per game the last two years and will be making $5 million at that same cap hit.

    If he’s dealt before the deadline, it’s hard to imagine that there’ll be anything at all useful coming back.

  30. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    commonfan14: Is he being bought out?

    Hemsky next year will be a 30 year old scorer who has put up 0.523 points per game the last two years and will be making $5 million at that same cap hit.

    If he’s dealt before the deadline, it’s hard to imagine that there’ll be anything at all useful coming back.

    If he manages to stay due to contract ugliness, I’ll cheer for joy!

    He could be bought out… but it is far more likely he is traded to a team well under the cap, a team that expects his offence to rebound starkly, packaged with a juicy player as a poison pill, traded to a team with the Oil paying some of his freight, or held until the deadline and traded to a team looking to add depth and not much caring the cost.

    he is far from unmovable.

  31. alice13 says:

    Ok, I’ll bite.

    I like the idea of a Bantam start for hitting because there’s less differential in size and speed than at younger ages, and they’ve had a chance to learn to carry the puck, make a play rather than throw it away to avoid getting creamed. Later, when they do have to avoid getting creamed, they may have learned how to play and love hockey.

    And Elite levels only, because at less-than-elite level there’s not the coaching and discipline to keep 14yr olds from doing what’s natural at that age – trying to see who’s toughest. Pushing after whistles, yapping – it’s not a fun game anymore either for the kids or the adults. That’s why my girls still played hockey through Midget, while the boys left at age 13-14 for other things. We had an Atom start for hitting, and like most parents here we conveinced ourselves it was good to learn earlier than later, and frankly We enjoyed watching it. In retrospect, it was probably both foolishly reckless as well as having a part in turning the boys off of playing the sport longer.

    So for Vish – been there, done that. In hindsight you can count me with lois. Best of luck!

  32. vishcosity says:

    Today’s announcement to me sounds like more state sponsored mediocrity akin to CRTC’s can-con requirements. While I was small and clumsy at eight years old, my boy was solid fast and aggressive. Like today’s entire educational system, today’s new rules seem to go further to coddle the weak instead of supporting the strong, it denies individuals the freedom to choose, and self governance is replaced by more and more legislation.

    While watching SJ, Van, StL and LA, it seems the more thunderous the player, the better their playoff performance. On one hand we want our NHL players to be virtually ruthless, yet now apparently we are going to take exactly that away from ALL of our kids, regardless of their skills or what they profess to want.

    If it were up to me, he would never play organized hockey, but, it doesn’t really matter what I want. Today the adults took away more opportunities from the kids. Once again, 51% impose their will on the 49.

    I wonder how Magnus went through minor hockey. Anyone know anything about the swedish minor league system? It’d be curious to find out his history with contact hockey. Although Penner went through the CHL, so probably its more about the player than the system.

    While my wife prefers the Sugar Cubes, I like Bjork’s solo stuff better.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXn_5c8ORIc

  33. Wolfpack says:

    For some reason, lately I have been thinking “Radek Dvorak” when I think of MPS. They were even drafted in the same spot in their respective drafts at #10 overall. I am pretty sure this place has a lot of Dvorak fans, but are we happy with MPS turning into a Radek Dvorak type player? One 30 goal season and a whole lot of 15-20 goal seasons, but a solid 2-way player. Man, has he ever played on a lot of terrible teams though.

  34. Rondo says:

    Rondo,

    Drouin
    MacKinnon
    Jones
    Nichushkin
    Barkov

    Corey Pronman
    http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1521

    Interesting rank

  35. regwald says:

    Rondo:
    Rondo,

    Drouin
    MacKinnon
    Jones
    Nichushkin
    Barkov

    Corey Pronman
    http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1521

    Interesting rank

    I went to his article and saw the rankings. I wanted to post the comment that he was hurting the feelings of all the Oilers fans out there by not going to at least the top 7. But you had to register to leave him a comment. lol

    that said, I went to his twitter page and 7-10 are posted tomorrow.

  36. prairieschooner says:

    I have been a fan of MPS but I think he has to be one of the tough decisions to help make the Oilers tougher.
    Hemsky will appear to be on his way out as well
    We can not hang on to our favourites and expect other teams to accept our discards.
    If the top 6 is basically set and we need to keep Horcoff as 3rd line centre then we are looking at upgrading one top 6 forward (Hemsky replacement) and 5 bottom six forwards.
    Management has to consider whether Harti has a spot or goes to waivers
    I do not think Gags is part of the solution but macT has spoken glowingly about him so he looks to be secure.

  37. Jordan says:

    regwald: I went to his article and saw the rankings. I wanted to post the comment that he was hurting the feelings of all the Oilers fans out there by not going to at least the top 7. But you had to register to leave him a comment. lol

    that said, I went to his twitter page and 7-10 are posted tomorrow.

    Yeah, that 6th pick is really doomed, so you might as well not even consider who might get selected there. I heard from a buddy who’s friend’s dog’s frisbee’s lawyer said that Feaster has started scouting ethiopia – he figures that with their affinity for speed and distance running, as soon as they acclimatize to skating, they’ll be a hockey powerhouse. So, with his sights clearly on the future, all of the conventional picks that you or I think might look good are completely ourside the scope of #6.

  38. Rondo says:

    Jordan,

    #6 will be Elias Lindholm

  39. Jordan says:

    Rondo,

    Why must you ruin my fun…

    :*(

  40. mps91 says:

    2 reasons advanced stats are stupid:

    1. On a team who doesn’t match lines (like the one Kruger runs) what good does QualComp do? It mostly ends up being a number that reflects chance/luck.

    2. No stat for penalties drawn. Someone like MPS who gets halled down driving to the net/going by D/working the cycle has value not reflected in these stats when in reality there’s great value to a quality like that.

  41. "Steve Smith" says:

    mps91,

    2 reasons food is stupid:

    1. When it’s left unrefrigerated for three years, it often contains disease-causing microbes.

    2. It can’t pilot a turbo-prop.

  42. sliderule says:

    The hockey is changing driven by the possibility that if the NFL loses big on the concussion issue our game has to follow suit.
    We are already seeing this in the penalties handed out by NHL have affected the way players are playing the game.
    In the olden days when I played hockey without helmets ,armored elbow pads and shoulder pads that protected your clavicle and little else to try to hurt someone was more likely hurt you.
    While I didn’t play above juvenile the teams I played on were good and a lot of the players played in college and my winger played for Leafs.So the hockey wasn’t chopped liver.
    Sometime between the time I played the game changed.Helmets came in and armored equipment made the players feel invincible and the coaches started to teach hitting to injure and intimidate not to separate player from puck
    When my son started playing there was no hitting until Bantam..he was slammed into the boards head first in his first bantam game and the parents all said good hit.Thank god that has changed with the stop program.
    My son went on to play tier one ,major junior and college hockey and the whole time I lived with concern that I had encouraged him to play the sport.
    The game that changed so fast to try to injure is going to have trouble changing back.
    When you hear the commentators at the WC saying that the Canadians have to hit to hurt you know there is a long way to go

  43. Lynas1 says:

    Hi LT. First time commenter, long time reader.

    Personally I am a big fan of Paajarvi. I see him as a terrific option for a 3rd line LW. I hope the Oilers agree. I kinda feel bad for him because it seems that Paajarvi, even more than Gagner, was brushed under the table. So much time focusing on the big names. I hope he sticks around.

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    mps91:

    2. No stat for penalties drawn. Someone like MPS who gets halled down driving to the net/going by D/working the cycle has value not reflected in these stats when in reality there’s great value to a quality like that.

    Except there are stats for penalties drawn:

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=41&s=46&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f4=C%20LW%20RW&f5=EDM&f8=10&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46

    Magnus pens drawn/60: .6; pens taken/60: .8

    so he actually takes more than he draws

  45. Ice Sage says:

    vishcosity: Today’s announcement to me sounds like more state sponsored mediocrity akin to CRTC’s can-con requirements. While I was small and clumsy at eight years old, my boy was solid fast and aggressive. Like today’s entire educational system, today’s new rules seem to go further to coddle the weak instead of supporting the strong, it denies individuals the freedom to choose, and self governance is replaced by more and more legislation.While watching SJ, Van, StL and LA, it seems the more thunderous the player, the better their playoff performance. On one hand we want our NHL players to be virtually ruthless, yet now apparently we are going to take exactly that away from ALL of our kids, regardless of their skills or what they profess to want. If it were up to me, he would never play organized hockey, but, it doesn’t really matter what I want. Today the adults took away more opportunities from the kids. Once again, 51% impose their will on the 49.I wonder how Magnus went through minor hockey. Anyone know anything about the swedish minor league system? It’d be curious to find out his history with contact hockey. Although Penner went through the CHL, so probably its more about the player than the system.While my wife prefers the Sugar Cubes, I like Bjork’s solo stuff better.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXn_5c8ORIc

    Magnus would have played on international size ice in Sweden where there is ‘hitting in the same direction’ allowed. I just returned from there where my Peewee aged son learned quickly that skill and speed are more effective than ‘dump and pound’!

    This is all about risk management which I’m sure sounds like pussification galore until the first big lawsuit forces the issue. The evidence is incontrivertable: Peewee age bodychecking = more injury i.e. preventable, potentially uninsurable injury in 2013. Bantams are phycically stronger (especially in the core and neck) and quicker to evade thus the reduced risk even with the increased forces.

    All good programs should teach body contact checking technique – I’d rather watch a checker like RNH than Hordichuk. All good programs should encourage heads-up play regardless of contact level.

    And FFS, sign PRV – exactly the support player with Pisani potential for the next 5 yrs.

  46. FPB94 says:

    I refereed and played a lot of CC-BB-AA hockey.

    I must say, even In Bantam, you see pretty much every week someone suspended/injured for boarding/elbowing/stupid shit.

    At Pee-Wee age it’s hard to ask a kid to understand what he’s doing, and he can severly injure one of his friends so it’s a no-no.

  47. vishcosity says:

    Just as I hit post this mac logged me out. Before trying to rebuild that response, I just need a minute to bitch.


    okay.

  48. vishcosity says:

    Ice Sage: This is all about risk management which I’m sure sounds like pussification galore until the first big lawsuit forces the issue. The evidence is incontrivertable: Peewee age bodychecking = more injury i.e. preventable, potentially uninsurable injury in 2013. Bantams are phycically stronger (especially in the core and neck) and quicker to evade thus the reduced risk even with the increased forces.

    Similar to putting infants in rear facing car seats. Makes sense to me certainly. Hadn’t thought of that.

    sliderule: The hockey is changing driven by the possibility that if the NFL loses big on the concussion issue our game has to follow suit.

    Had I not sustained multiple concussions through out my rec sporting career I may have been able to remember what I had written before the ill timed logging out.

    1. If little Maggie learned on big ice and that produces skill and speed, then probably big Ben Eager on little ice would encourage its reverse, namely crash and bang hockey. (euros = soft origins probably)

    2. If plastic armour = fearlessness, then with 1, happy factor = ice size / equipment size.

    3. While we live in Rome (see votes to consider borrowing(!) 600M to build an amphitheater) and money earned is connected to blood lost, and while apparently happy = money in, then it would follow that money in = ice size/equipment size.

    However, if loss of cash in is actionable for multinational corporations, it probably should be actionable for individuals born in 2008 too. And if Hockey Alberta is limiting the commercial activity for those with size skill and a Yakcity work ethic, then that should be actionable for those who are denied an opportunity to voluntarily enter the blood sports for which we the people choose to pay.

    So to limit liability, the adults who support hockey as currently played probably should instead look to affect the ice size or the equipment coverage compared to using legislation to limit choices for kids.

    Hopefully the legal implications cancel each other out leaving kids the opportunity to play at whatever level THEY desire.

    Conveniently, my boy has zero work ethic, and thus any fiscal implications of a decision like this will likely have no noticeable effect on his life. And because teams are full of players like him, they are still unable to complete four consecutive passes in the o zone and thus coaches, so desperate to put insignificant w’s in meaningless columns, they teach players to sweep opponents knees because basically none of them bother to practice alone with a few pylons and an orange ball.

  49. Lowetide says:

    Vishcosity: Well done. Both posts.

  50. Zjunior says:

    vishcosity,

    Could you go one step further and pretend you are grand poobah of hockey canada. You would set things up how exactly? I get the gist of your post but would like to hear how it would play out if hockey season were to start tomorrow with your goals of “balancing the future commercial activity of yak cities” and and letting kids play at the level they desire etc. Honestly, what would that look like?

  51. Captain Happy says:

    The Swedish national team just added the Sedins and Edler.

    No mention of Paajarvi.

    What’s up with that?

  52. vishcosity says:

    After getting downsized by the US corporate giant, I decided to take over the desolate Newton community league. With a reputation for irregular hours and terrible ice, I mastered it. Every night I swept to the best of my ability then laid three sheets of water down. The first one super thin, the second as foundation, and the third as a fine mist. Then at night I’d leave it open until the last skater chose to leave. A reputation developed and we had outstanding hockey every night. It got to the point where on any given thursday night 30 dudes would be pouring out of the penalty boxes with two goalies every night in February. I didn’t charge anyone, billed the league for my hours, and pissed off the board of directors. That was that. Even though I’d figured out leagues and had commitments from captains, they pulled the rug. I filmed it all and still have the files. It was magic for everyone. Alas.

    While flooding ice in the middle of random winter days, elders would stop by and we’d chat. I learned a world about the history of hockey, and that community league. Clearly, Newton has launched a pile of NHL players, yet the boy’s Northstars could claim one year of Fernando Pisani. His minor hockey was a disaster, but the history of this rink was exceptional.

    So what was the problem? Why the divergence?

    I remember one night. My boy was out late with two dudes on the ice, just the three of them. One was an outstanding talent, at least AJHL. I could tell the WHL grads, he was close for sure. The other guy had no wheels comparatively, but better hands. Exceptional talents. With my boy they did some drill which I can maybe describe. Using the whole ice, one d man fed the 2F around centre with a stretch pass who hit then hit the 1F at the offensive blue line for a rip at the iron. 1F would fetch the rebound and outlet to centre and back around and around. What he learned that night I could never teach. And there is no way anything from Northstars hockey was ever going to show it to him either.

    I flooded their ice, and they taught my kid to play the game. Like, play the game. The guy in the Carter sweater showed him how to play with a true powerforward. The guy from fort mac in the santa hat made everyone elevate. What talent. To be on the ice with guys hitting the crossbar from their own goal line was absolutely unforgettable. I realized how far he had to go. And so did he. We both needed to be better to even play at all. And it happened quickly. And unlike the Northstars, it really happened.

    So this was my plan:

    There were groups of dudes that would come in packs. I picked the four best and asked if they could get a team of 4 with a goalie and a sub to play on Saturday nights. There is a room above the ice there and people would be able to watch. One guy said, “we’re going to win every week.” I said, “Yeah, I don’t know about that.” They were all in. It was ready to be outstanding.

    On Saturday afternoon, it could be sticks in the middle for anyone under 14. Parents vote on the player of the game, and the challenging team for the Saturday night game would pick up that kid. Winner plays next week, playoffs between teams are on Thursday, or Tuesday and Thursday, or whatever.

    No money down.

    Imagine community leagues playing against other community leagues. Imagine players realizing their best chance to win is to help the younger kids get better, forwards being responsible on defence, rivalries pushing improved performance. Botched plays would be retold on school yards and heros would emerge. People would know their neighbours, kids play together, work together, improve together.

    I miss those kids. Tom was one of the best kids I’ve ever met, I want my boy to turn out much like him. The guy in the green track suit, the santa hat, the guy with the red gloves. These guys taught my boy to play a game, and for it I built ice, and would have taught their kids to play round ball to the best of my ability.

    As long as the money is out of the picture, people work it out. If I was the grand master of hockey canada, I would take all the money right out, all the tiering would go, I would decentralize the whole thing.

    Inevitably the Pete Peeters of the world would emerge, the Dave and Wayne Babych’s and those truly born to run would be found by WHL squads. Johnny Boychuk made it from minor hockey, but he didn’t bring the cup to Newton or to the Northstars. Because they didn’t do enough for him to feel any sense of obligation.

    If I were king of the world, we would have a totally different set of problems. But also, there would be no debt financed arenas. Instead, every community league would have a sweet set of salt water pipes, boards, and a room for parents to watch. The salt water could keep ice from October to May, revenue from the concession could cover the utilities, it would be completely alcohol free, and for less than 500K every community league would be like the Beverly of my youth where community league skating nights included a line for hot chocolate ten deep.

    Decentralize the whole thing.

  53. Ice Sage says:

    Captain Happy:
    The Swedish national team just added the Sedins and Edler.

    No mention of Paajarvi.

    What’s up with that?

    THose Canucks guys are more rested. Mats Sundin has a hangnail..

  54. Lowetide says:

    Will the Sedins get back in time for the next round?

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