SAM GAGNER RE 12-13: FIRE

These days, there’s so much heat on Sam Gagner I’m a little worried he might end up like the drummer for Spinal Tap and spontaneously combust!

SAM GAGNER 10-11

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.91 (2nd among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 2.51 (9th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 7th toughest among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: 4th best teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: 7.0 (4th best among regular forwards) (-3.81 CorsiON)
  • Zone Start: 50.9% (6th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 53.4% (best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 138/10.9% (8th among F’s>100 shots)
  • Boxcars: 68gp, 15-27-42
  • Plus Minus: -17 on a team that was -52.

SAM GAGNER 11-12

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.96 (4th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 3.66 (6th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 8th toughest among regular forwards
  • Qual Team: 6th best teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: 6.3 (4th best among regular forwards) (-2.18 CorsiON)
  • Zone Start: 54.1% (4th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 51.8% (4th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 149/12.1% (5th among F’s>100 shots)
  • Boxcars: 75, 18-29-47
  • Plus Minus: +5 on a team that was -26

SAM GAGNER 12-13

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.84 (4th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 6.15 (1st among regular forwards, 19th in NHL)
  • Qual Comp: 5th toughest among regular forwards (2nd line opp)
  • Qual Team: 6th best teammates among regular forwards
  • Corsi Rel: -4.3 (9th best among regular forwards) (-14.44 CorsiON)
  • Zone Start: 51.4% (4th easiest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 52.0% (3rd best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 113/12.39% (2nd among F’s>70 shots)
  • Boxcars: 48, 14-24-38
  • Plus Minus: -6 on a team that was -15
  1. What do these numbers tell us? It is such a weird player card. He is amazingly consistent in the boxcars, the 5×5/60, the qual comp, zone starts, all down the line. However, his CorsiRel and CorsiON are a major step down from previous seasons, and his season observed involved more chaos than we’ve seen in the past. Faced with second level competition, and a nice zone start, featuring linemates like Hemsky, Yakupov and Paajarvi, Sam Gagner should have been better.
  2. So, he was bad? His line was bad at shot differential, and that’s a key indicator of success. Sam’s 5×4/60 and the fact that the line cashed (shooting percentage is also amazingly consistent) a lot of their chances makes the boxcars look stronger than they might have with less luck for him and the line. Yakupov’s shooting percentage was a major help.
  3. What was the problem? I don’t know.
  4. This blog has gone downhill. Yes, yes. Look, some of the best minds available are on it, and they’re having trouble. These are big brains with advanced computers, and I’m over here with a typewriter, a slide rule and a keen knowledge of the times table.
  5. 12×12? 144.
  6. You old people own the times table. Sure do. And 8-tracks.
  7. What was his PDO? 1007, a little spike in temperature but not enough to take your kid to the hospital.
  8. What are your theories? Well, I have one. Hemsky’s a tough guy to play with, a rover-sort like Guy Lafleur. Bowman had his best defensive center (Lemaire) and one of the best 2-way LW’s ever (Shutt) to ad lib around Lafleur’s rover ways. Much of Hemsky’s success came with Horcoff, a solid 2-way center, and Smyth, who was an effective and complete winger in his prime. That’s my theory.
  9. What are some of the real theories? Well, there’s a list. Gagner-Hemsky doesn’t work because: they don’t trust their winger (Yak-Paajarvi), Gagner isn’t going deep enough into coverage, Gagner is going too deep into coverage, Gagner isn’t giving good passes out of the zone, the breakouts are poorly designed, the wingers are too far up the ice, they’re dumping it in too much, they’re passing too much.
  10. Seems pretty clear. This guy was well clear of the Corsi bandit in the last two seasons, and this year he’s on the wrong side of the law. Dellow has been working toward an answer, and it appears to involve a lot of one shot and out shifts–but we’ll wait to find the answer.
  11. He’s blaming Hemsky. He’s not blaming Hemsky, Dellow is trying to find the problem. He did say: “Hemsky’s numbers showed a massive decline at generating multi-SAF (shot-attempts-for) shifts even before the shot to the foot in Detroit.” Maybe it’s isolated to Hemsky, maybe the Oilers have identified the problem through math or ‘saw him bad’. Either way, the Oilers need to figure that out.  This is not an easy math problem. So far, Dellow’s proven that the Gagner-Hemsky line was way down in terms of shifts that had sustain in the offensive zone, and has isolated Hemsky as the primary suspect. Gagner is far from innocent, though, based on my reading of Tyler’s notes. And credit where due, it is the most evidence I’ve seen so far that something is in fact causing this fissure (beyond luck).
  12. Dellow’s theory matches your theory! No it doesn’t. Dellow is saying that Hemksy showed a massive decline, my theory is that Hemsky is tough to adjust to; that’s not the same thing. In defense of my theory, Taylor Hall said as much in his rookie season iirc. Hemsky takes some getting used to, especially for players used to handling the puck. However, Hemsky’s had success forever even with his dangling ways–this is the new stuff Dellow’s on here.
  13. What are they going to do with Gagner? I’ll guess they sign him to a three-year, $4.65M per year deal and set him up with a strong LW to go with Yakupov on the 2line.
  14. Like who? Ah, I don’t know. Nathan Horton? Viktor Stalberg? Oilers clearly have a need and if they get a physical winger with offense who can cash that player could easily score 25 goals.
  15. Who would you get? Dustin Penner.
  16. Oh holy hell you’re impossible. You asked, I told.
  17. Okay, leaving out Penner, Torres and MacT’s past, who would you like to see? Voracek, Vanek, Bickell, Horton, Stalberg, Kulemin, Glencross.
  18. You’ve always liked Kulemin. Yes, Frattin too.
  19. You want the Oilers to keep Gagner, don’t you? Sure. I understand he had an off year by his own standards, but even with that he posted solid offensive numbers. If you can show me for an absolute certainty he’s eroding as a player, then let’s move on. But I don’t think that’s the case, and focusing all of our attention on what he can’t do does a disservice to what he can do.
  20. Is this about his Mom? Maybe a little.
  21. Have we seen the last of Hemsky? That’s tomorrow’s story.
  22. Are there any Springsteen songs about sailing? Tomorrow.

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79 Responses to "SAM GAGNER RE 12-13: FIRE"

  1. Rondo says:

    Sam Gagner is lost in the flood.

  2. Jordan says:

    Mmmm. This post is Boss. That is all.

  3. Lowetide says:

    I’m saving that one for the defense. :-)

  4. DBO says:

    So LT you would want:

    Hall-Nuge-Eberle
    Penner-Gagner-Yakupov
    Paajarvi-Horcoff-????

    If Hemsky is dealt, who do they go and get? or is it the Hemsky for “coke machine esque” trade (like a Stafford)

  5. Lowetide says:

    DBO:
    So LT you would want:

    Hall-Nuge-Eberle
    Penner-Gagner-Yakupov
    Paajarvi-Horcoff-????

    If Hemsky is dealt, who do they go and get? or is it the Hemsky for “coke machine esque” trade (like a Stafford)

    I’d leave the top line alone, bring Penner back as an option for 2 or 3 line (depending on what else shakes loose). We’ll talk about it as we roll along, but a 3line of Horcoff-Penner-Paajarvi looks quite nice too.

  6. DBO says:

    Lowetide,

    So a bigger two way player for the 2nd and 3rd lines. Well, those 2 and a #1 LD and all is good. Easy. Right? Make it so MacT.

  7. DBO says:

    I fear we will be somewhat disappointed this off season. MacT will do something, which will be a nice change, but unless we unload one of the wonderkids we will not get the top end UFA’s or players.

    We will get someone else’s damaged goods (ie. Malone or Stafford) and we will sign some flawed players because we will be only ones to offer decent money (Penner and Streit). So an injured power forward who is declining, an overweight underachiever and an old man winter good PP guy. The scary part is that those 3 players will make us better and if healthy way more competitive. That is more an indictment of what we have versus what they bring.

  8. Lowetide says:

    DBO:
    Lowetide,

    So a bigger two way player for the 2nd and 3rd lines. Well, those 2 and a #1 LD and all is good. Easy. Right? Make it so MacT.

    I think he’ll address the 2line LW slot, not sure if he sees Smyth as an option for the 4line. If they feel as though Yakupov can play LW, or feel Paajarvi can grab that 3line Lw slot, then the shopping is easier on LW.

  9. gcw_rocks says:

    At. This point I am indifferent in whether he stays or goes. I think, if the Oilers draft a centre this year, there are a number of players that could be had to bridge the gap at reasonable to depressed prices, I would explore trading Gagner.

  10. Gret99zky says:

    Speaking of Spinal Tap, Sam will soon be requesting the old Thamesmen tune, Gimme Some Money.

    Re Penner:

    Isn’t he built for the playoffs and not the regular season?

    I know you love him LT, but I wouldn’t bring that work ethic into the dressing room.

  11. Lucinius says:

    Not impressed with team Canada so far. Very unimpressed with Ruff (especially as an Oiler fan). Anyone know a good place to find TOI for the World Championships? It feels like Hall and Eberle aren’t seeing the ice that much compared to others.

    Also the d-corps for Canada is incredibly underwhelming.

  12. Spydyr says:

    What exactly does Gagner, without the puck, bring to the team ?

    Does he play good defensively: No

    Does he have a good forecheck: No

    Is he strong on the puck: No

    Does he make his teammates better: No

    Does he win one on one battles: No

    Does he hit: No

    Is he good at faceoffs: No

    Has the team made the playoffs with him on it:No

  13. Smarmy says:

    Spydyr,

    They haven’t made the playoffs with Hall, Eberle or Smid either. Get rid of them all!

  14. G Money says:

    DBO:
    I fear we will be somewhat disappointed this off season. MacT will do something, which will be a nice change, but unless we unload one of the wonderkids we will not get the top end UFA’s or players.

    We will get someone else’s damaged goods (ie. Malone or Stafford) and we will sign some flawed players because we will be only ones to offer decent money (Penner and Streit). So an injured power forward who is declining, an overweight underachiever and an old man winter good PP guy. The scary part is that those 3 players will make us better and if healthy way more competitive. That is more an indictment of what we have versus what they bring.

    I think that’s a legitimate concern, BUT, the wildcard this year is the change in cap.

    The last time we had a similar change with the imposition of the cap in the first place … we got Pronger and Peca. Who saw that coming? And it took a much less skilled team within a Rollie’s knee of the Cup.

    Does MacT have it in him to pull something like that off?

    As LT would say: we wait.

  15. Captain Obvious says:

    Lucinius:
    Not impressed with team Canada so far. Very unimpressed with Ruff (especially as an Oiler fan). Anyone know a good place to find TOI for the World Championships? It feels like Hall and Eberle aren’t seeing the ice that much compared to others.

    Also the d-corps for Canada is incredibly underwhelming.

    Watching the world championships it makes me wonder if we have underestimated how much of the Oilers’ problem is their dreadful D. Team Canada has a world class set of forwards and a bunch of guys who will never sniff the all-star game on D and the result is the forwards never have the puck where they need it to make things happen.

  16. Spydyr says:

    Lucinius,

    Lucinius:
    Not impressed with team Canada so far. Very unimpressed with Ruff (especially as an Oiler fan). Anyone know a good place to find TOI for the World Championships? It feels like Hall and Eberle aren’t seeing the ice that much compared to others.

    Also the d-corps for Canada is incredibly underwhelming.

    Not sure about this year but in other years they bring in a few guys after the first round of the playoffs. I’m with you bring in a couple first pairing d-men.Kinda like the Oilers need to do.

  17. jp says:

    Lucinius:
    Not impressed with team Canada so far. Very unimpressed with Ruff (especially as an Oiler fan). Anyone know a good place to find TOI for the World Championships? It feels like Hall and Eberle aren’t seeing the ice that much compared to others.

    Also the d-corps for Canada is incredibly underwhelming.

    http://www.iihf.com/competition/352/statistics.html

    Average TOI is under player stats by team. Also “summary” for each game is available below.

    Through 2 periods today Hall and Ebs have the least TOI on the team.

  18. Spydyr says:

    Smarmy:
    Spydyr,

    They haven’t made the playoffs with Hall, Eberle or Smid either. Get rid of them all!

    If Hall, Eberle miss for 6 years.Perhaps you should.

  19. Mark Lamb Chops says:

    Would Niño Niederreiter and the Islanders 15th overall pick (assuming they don’t upset the mighty pens) be enough for anyone to move down from 7th. Niño has been noticeable in this Canada/Swiss game and has pedigree which we know oilers management loves. Could look good as a big, aggressive winger that they are endlessly searching for. Plus he’s Swiss, so he’s alright in my books, probably Ralph’s too.

    Could probably draft their golden boy Lazar at 15 as well if that’s who they want anyways.

    Just thinking out loud on a Saturday morning.

    Keep up the good work everyone.

  20. Spydyr says:

    Mark Lamb Chops,

    Mark Lamb Chops:
    Would Niño Niederreiter and the Islanders 15th overall pick (assuming they don’t upset the mighty pens) be enough for anyone to move down from 7th. Niño has been noticeable in this Canada/Swiss game and has pedigree which we know oilers management loves. Could look good as a big, aggressive winger that they are endlessly searching for. Plus he’s Swiss, so he’s alright in my books, probably Ralph’s too.

    Could probably draft their golden boy Lazar at 15 as well if that’s who they want anyways.

    Just thinking out loud on a Saturday morning.

    Keep up the good work everyone.

    You must have had a awesome weekend.It is Sunday.

  21. Mark Lamb Chops says:

    Spydyr,

    HaHa

    Weekends don’t really exist in my life, just a first day off in awhile so Saturday it is for me. But thanks for reminding me I have to work tomorrow. Really appreciate it.

  22. Lucinius says:

    jp,

    Looks like they didn’t play a ton in the first game either, especially Hall. Only person who played less than Hall in the first game was Skinner. Ruff is also leaning heavily on his top pairing of Dillon and Robidas (who have not been that good, neither has Brodie or Schenn).

    But I’ve never liked Ruff. One of the most over-rated coaches for many a year in the MSM and hockey community.

  23. Mark Lamb Chops says:

    Also Nino kicks one in to tie up the game.

  24. Spydyr says:

    Mark Lamb Chops:
    Spydyr,

    HaHa

    Weekends don’t really exist in my life, just a first day off in awhile so Saturday it is for me. But thanks for reminding me I have to work tomorrow.Really appreciate it.

    Sorry about that Hope you have a great day off.

  25. commonfan14 says:

    Anyone who heard Penner talk about how annoying it was to get the stink eye everytime he pulled up to the DQ drive-thru window when he played here knows that he is never coming back. We might as well stop talking about it.

  26. Mark Lamb Chops says:

    Spydyr,

    No problem, can only hide from the world for so long. At least I can watch hockey all day in between enjoying the sun and yard work. Might even have a drink and then another.

  27. Lucinius says:

    Wow.. Hall and Eberle (and a couple others) have not played much in this game at all..

    Ruff does not seem to be a fan of Hall, Eberle, Schultz, Brodie, based on the first two period stat sheet.

    Schultz and Brodie have played third pairing-ish minutes…

    And that’s with Schultz getting powerplay time on the main unit — let that sink in for a minute. Means he’s playing the least of all the players 5v5.

    Disgusting coaching from Team Canada, as usual. It happens every year; the coach gets his favourites and rides them far too much and they simply cannot carry the team.

  28. Lucinius says:

    Man…

    Looks like Hall won’t see the ice in overtime. I don’t even know what to say.

  29. VanOil says:

    Niño Niederreiter for Rajala seems to solve a problem for both teams burying talent that does not fit there plans.

  30. VanOil says:

    Interesting that Eberle’s favored to Hall by team Canada. Is it reputation or reality of how other see our stars?

  31. Lucinius says:

    Swiss win in long ass shoot out.

    Hockey Canada continues to mire its teams in failure.

  32. Gi JQE says:

    VanOil,

    Not sure Islanders would do that trade. I would think we would need to sweaten the pot..no? Just based on what I know of Niederrieter he seems to have a higher ceilling and pedegree then Rajala?

  33. Lucinius says:

    VanOil,

    No one saw the ice less than Hall. Hall played two minutes less than the next lowest forward — and half the ice time as the second line in regards to TOI, and 10-12 minutes less than the top line who saw close to 20 minutes in regulation. Schultz saw the ice the least of all the d-men, and that’s with first unit powerplay time.

    As an Oiler fan.. this is horrific. As a Canadian its just more of the same from Team Canada and a big reason why Canada struggles to win on the international stage is the game of favourites.

  34. RickDeckard says:

    Lucinius,

    I guess Ruff won’t be replacing Krueger then.

  35. Spydyr says:

    Lucinius,

    Unlike the OIlers who grant ice time on who you are not what you do (See Kefbom being given a spot on the team already).Ruff expects his players to earn their ice time.From what I have seen so far at the worlds.None of the Oiler players have earned more ice time.That is what real coaches do.make a player earn it not listen to higher ups with 6 rings.

  36. Lois Lowe says:

    If Hall played that little, there was probably a reason for it. Ruff is a bit of a hardass, so I can see a situation where Hall turned the puck over in the neutral zone trying to rush the puck forward. He’s a gamebreaker but he’s not the most responsible forward with the puck.

  37. Spydyr says:

    Lois Lowe:
    If Hall played that little, there was probably a reason for it. Ruff is a bit of a hardass, so I can see a situation where Hall turned the puck over in the neutral zone trying to rush the puck forward. He’s a gamebreaker but he’s not the most responsible forward with the puck.

    Exactly the kind of coach the Oilers need right now.Teach the kids to play without the puck and be responsible for you actions.

  38. DBO says:

    just watching some playoffs and looking for possible sneaky signings in off season. we used to find solid two way dmen all the time (staios). I found two I like. Both are around 29, coming off cheap deals, grew up in the Ahl and both played top 4 minutes down the stretch or in the playoffs, while seeing PP and PK. Also, both are physical enough, with good size,
    - Grant Clitsome
    - Ben Lovejoy

    Positive Corsi’s, play both disciplines. Clitsome is LH, Lovejoy RH. On this team they could be our top pairing, and push the shultz’s to 3rd pairing. Also, both could be had for around $2 mill max and have a chance to play 4-5 more effective years.

    Rather have two solid two way physical dmen, then overpay for Streit or deal away something of value.

    And frustratingly Clitsome was a waiver pickup last year and Lovejoy was traded for a 5th rd in 2014. fuckin Tamblowe

  39. dangilitis says:

    Spydyr,

    You already posted this exact paragraph on Oilers Nation, and I responded there, and you did not.

  40. dangilitis says:

    DBO:
    just watching some playoffs and looking for possible sneaky signings in off season. we used to find solid two way dmen all the time (staios). I found two I like. Both are around 29, coming off cheap deals, grew up in the Ahl and both played top 4 minutes down the stretch or in the playoffs, while seeing PP and PK. Also, both are physical enough, with good size,
    - Grant Clitsome
    - Ben Lovejoy

    Positive Corsi’s, play both disciplines. Clitsome is LH, Lovejoy RH. On this team they could be our top pairing, and push the shultz’s to 3rd pairing. Also, both could be had for around $2 mill max and have a chance to play 4-5 more effective years.

    Rather have two solid two way physical dmen, then overpay for Streit or deal away something of value.

    And frustratingly Clitsome was a waiver pickup last year and Lovejoy was traded for a 5th rd in 2014. fuckin Tamblowe

    I was looking on CapGeek the other day and I totally agree with going after Clitsome, but more in the sense that I think if the Oilers wanted to shed salary, he would be a cheaper and similarly aged replacement for N Schultz in the # 5 role. I don’t see him as a solution in a top 4 role. They could trade N Schultz for a draft pick or (fingers crossed) a useful bottom 6 forward, and actually upgrade in the #5 spot by getting Clitsome as a UFA, and do it for less than the 3.5 million per season that N Schultz earns.It would still mean then, that the Oilers would need a top pairing D man to push Smid Petry and J Schultz down on the depth chart and fill out the top 4, or settle for another #3-4 type D-man in Mark Streit or Hjalmarsson. As well, they need to decide on their #6/#7 spots (Klefbom? Potter? Outside help?).

  41. RickDeckard says:

    Are the Penguins the most over rated team of the decade?

  42. DBO says:

    HALL-NUGE-EBERLE
    BICKELL-GAGNER-YAKUPOV
    PAAJARVI-HORCOFF-STAFFORD
    SMYTH-LANDER-HARTIKAINEN
    BROWN-JONES

    CLITSOME-LOVEJOY
    SMID-PETRY
    SHULTZ-SHULTZ
    POTTER

    DUBNYK
    KHUDOBIN

    That may be the best we can hope for. I would be happy to see this lineup compared to last year, and we would not break the bank to get these new additions.

  43. DBO says:

    dangilitis,

    Ideally yeah Clitsome is our 3 LD, but only other option i see is $4.5 mill to Streit, and I do not want that.

  44. Rebilled says:

    8 new Oilers would seem to say that Gagner is gone. I think it will be more like six because Oiler management is the same. So glad the Oilers told everyone what they’re going to try to do. Works out nevery time.

    These were the trades in 05/06′

    1. Pronger – (Brewer, Lynch, Woywitka)
    2. Peca – (York, #110 pick)
    3. Tarnstrom – (Cross, Rita)
    4. Spacek – (Salmelainen)
    5. Roloson – (#17, #37 pick)
    6. Samsonov – (Reasoner, Stastny, #50 pick..)

    Maybe we can keep him if we make trades like these.

  45. Lucinius says:

    RickDeckard,

    Everyone tends to forget just how bad Fleury can be in net.

  46. gogliano says:

    Being a #1 overall draft pick with Crosby/Malkin as your top two centers can have people forget a lot of suckage.

  47. dangilitis says:

    Spydyr,

    Spydyr:
    Lucinius,

    Unlike the OIlers who grant ice time on who you are not what you do (See Kefbom being given a spot on the team already).Ruff expects his players to earn their ice time.From what I have seen so far at the worlds.None of the Oiler players have earned more ice time.That is what real coaches do.make a player earn it not listen to higher ups with 6 rings.

    Really? Eberle is leading the team in scoring despite being shorted PP or ES time. Him and Duchenne have looked dangerous most shifts together.

  48. rickithebear says:

    Spydyr: What exactly does Gagner, without the puck, bring to the team ?

    Rank for centres:
    -3rd ranked pK !
    -47th in take aways
    -87th in hits
    better w/ gagner
    Hall; Eberle; Nilsson; Cogliano; jones; yakupov; Horcoff; hartikainen.
    better withot garner
    Hemsky; MP; Penner; Belanger; Smyth.

  49. Lucinius says:

    I will say that this playoff season is starting of extremely well for me. I must be burning up a lot of karma with how well my picks have been doing for me. If the Islanders can pull out with a win here today that’s another couple hundred bucks — odds have been to good to ignore in the Islander/Pens series.

    Same with the Caps/Rangers, Sharks/Canucks and Bruins/Leafs (though i did lose a bit yesterday on those damn Bruins).

  50. Lucinius says:

    dangilitis,

    And part of Hall’s problem has been the fact he was put out with Duchene. Both players love to carry the puck, which has left Hall out of the loop a bit. Eberle is doing fine with Duchene because he pairs well with anyone who can move that puck up ice with speed.

    Hall would do better on the third line, I think.

  51. RickDeckard says:

    gogliano,

    Yeah, most people just focus on stupid things like wins and draft position but he is truly horrible. But the real shocker is that shots in regulation were 34-19 for the Isles.

  52. Lucinius says:

    Bah. Weak call on Streit hands it to the Pens.

  53. dangilitis says:

    Lucinius,

    Agreed, I am just saying that calling the Oilers players useless is unwarranted. Hall needs more ice time and deserves it just as much as Giroux, Staal, etc. right about now. Meanwhile, Ruff is being lauded by spydyr for not handing out ice time based on reputation…

  54. rickithebear says:

    Rebilled: These were the trades in 05/06′
    1. Pronger – (Brewer, Lynch, Woywitka)
    2. Peca – (York, #110 pick)
    3. Tarnstrom – (Cross, Rita)
    4. Spacek – (Salmelainen)
    5. Roloson – (#17, #37 pick)
    6. Samsonov – (Reasoner, Stastny, #50 pick..)
    Maybe we can keep him if we make trades like these.

    1. Pronger – (Brewer, Lynch, Woywitka)
    2. Peca – (York, #110 pick)
    3. Tarnstrom – (Cross, Rita)
    4. Spacek – (Salmelainen)
    5. Roloson – (#17, #37 pick)
    6. Samsonov – (Reasoner, Stastny, #50 pick..)

    Maybe we can keep him if we make trades like these.

    DBO:
    HALL-NUGE-EBERLE
    BICKELL-GAGNER-YAKUPOV
    PAAJARVI-HORCOFF-STAFFORD
    SMYTH-LANDER-HARTIKAINEN
    BROWN-JONES

    CLITSOME-LOVEJOY
    SMID-PETRY
    SHULTZ-SHULTZ
    POTTER

    DUBNYK
    KHUDOBIN

    That may be the best we can hope for. I would be happy to see this lineup compared to last year, and we would not break the bank to get these new additions.

    Rebilled:
    8 new Oilers would seem to say that Gagner is gone. I think it will be more like six because Oiler management is the same. So glad the Oilers told everyone what they’re going to try to do. Works out nevery time.

    These were the trades in 05/06′

    1. Pronger – (Brewer, Lynch, Woywitka)
    2. Peca – (York, #110 pick)
    3. Tarnstrom – (Cross, Rita)
    4. Spacek – (Salmelainen)
    5. Roloson – (#17, #37 pick)
    6. Samsonov – (Reasoner, Stastny, #50 pick..)

    Maybe we can keep him if we make trades like these.

    How many of these guys were on our team in 06-07?
    no i will do trades for guys that are here more than 1 year.

  55. dangilitis says:

    DBO,

    If that D is the best we can hope for (Lovejoy and Clitsome top D pairing) – then we are getting Connor MacDavid next year!

  56. RickDeckard says:

    Apparently Crosby forgot how to skate.

  57. dangilitis says:

    Smid, Petry, Hjalmarsson, J Schultz, then Clitsome – Klefbom/Potter would look a whole lot better, and if you want to throw Lovejoy in the mix there so be it.

  58. Ducey says:

    Team Canada always has trouble at the Worlds. They are playing against a lot of players who are at home (or near it) are used to playing on big ice (which changes the game quite a bit) and often with the same coaches and linemates. They have a passion for the Worlds as well at there is no European Championship.

    Canada comes over with guys burned out from the NHL season, adjusting to a different game, different linemates and sytems and often hardly care if they win that much.

    Usually Canada just starts to get it together in time to have a chance at saving their bacon near the end.

    Happens every year.

  59. Rebilled says:

    rickithebear,

    Rollie and Dick. One of those guys was signed to a long term deal but we ended up getting Eberle and Smid for him. Dick got traded for Glencross. The other 3 left.

    Those original 6 were all good trades.

    ‘no i will do trades for guys that are here more than 1 year.’

    yes?

  60. Spydyr says:

    rickithebear: Rank for centres:
    -3rd ranked pK !
    -47th in take aways
    -87th in hits
    better w/ gagner
    Hall; Eberle; Nilsson; Cogliano; jones; yakupov; Horcoff; hartikainen.
    better withot garner
    Hemsky; MP; Penner; Belanger; Smyth.

    When you take into account 30 teams X 4 centres =120
    Then take out the 4th line centres who play 7 minutes a night your left with 90 centres and 60 first and second line centres

    47 on take aways puts him in the bottom 25% of first and second line centres.

    87 in hits, well that puts him 87 out of 90 first to third line centres.It does not get much worse than that.

    As far as making the players you say he has made better.Perhaps they are making him better.It is a matter of perspective.

  61. RickDeckard says:

    dangilitis,

    McDavid is a 2015 draftee

  62. rickithebear says:

    Rebilled:
    rickithebear,

    Rollie and Dick. One of those guys was signed to a long term deal but we ended up getting Eberle and Smid for him. Dick got traded for Glencross. The other 3 left.

    Those original 6 were all good trades.

    ‘no i will do trades for guys that are here more than 1 year.’

    yes?

    Tarnstrom went to Lugano in 06-07, resigned with us next year as ufa.
    So 07-08 ufa signed Tarnstrom got us Glencross not traded for 05-06 tarnstrom.

    That period of lost veteran players for zero assets is the diffrence from our rebuld and calgary’s

  63. rickithebear says:

    Spydyr: As far as making the players you say he has made better.Perhaps they are making him better.It is a matter of perspective.

    Wowy says they are better.
    Not me.
    that would be opinion if i said that.

    remember
    OPINION: a point of view not based on facts or Knowledge.

    you saying he does not make people better is the perfect example of OPINION!

  64. Kris11 says:

    That Swiss team really out coached Canada, eh?

    Maybe the Oilers could get one of those Swiss coaches?

    Oh crap…

  65. dangilitis says:

    RickDeckard,

    Oh. Well my point was that I hope we are not still talking about being in the mix for any #1 draft picks in the next few years.

  66. Rebilled says:

    rickithebear,

    Exactly, the problems came after those trades.

    Those players were good ones to go after. I just want to see some trades that make sense for position and depth.

    Did they know that Spacek really liked the Eastern travel schedule? Predict Pronger?

    I agree, they let a lot of assets go for nothing or Nothing O’Sullivan. That’s what they can’t blow on this time around.

  67. Lowetide says:

    The thing is this: you don’t deal Pronger until you have enough establised defense. If Spacek won’t sign, then an established D has to be part of the return. I mean, this is pretty simple.

  68. Magnus says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Nino Niederreiter is exactly the type of emerging power forward the team should be looking at. Hasn’t established himself yet, is big, will play in traffic, bit of a mean streak, and has good hands. I think he’d be the perfect 2nd line LW.

    I would also target Kyle Okposo. Another slow start this year and underwhelming scoring totals have many in New York wondering if he’s worth keeping. But he’s 25, has decent size, gritty, has talent, decent stats, hard worker and has shown flashes of putting it all together in the past. I think he’d slot nicely into the 3rd line Pisani-role LT is always mentioning and has the skill to move up in the line-up if needed. I know the Oil have been keen on him in the past and his value is at an all time low.

  69. godot10 says:

    Ruff hasn’t played against a Western Conference team this year. The only players he knows are the Eastern Conference players. Because he knows the eastern guys better, they get far more rope. Hall gets the quick hook.

    I think this is Hall’s first time on the big ice. His World Junior was in Ottawa, right? So maybe the last time he was on the big ice was U18′s, where Canada is super-dominant.

    Team Canada’s defensemen are awful. Great forwards can’t do much with a defense out of its depth. We’ve been watching this story first hand for a couple of years now.

    “my theory is that Hemsky is tough to adjust to; that’s not the same thing. In defense of my theory, Taylor Hall said as much in his rookie season iirc. Hemsky takes some getting used to, especially for players used to handling the puck. ”

    Philosophical question of the day:
    If the peg fits the square socket, is it a square peg?

  70. godot10 says:

    Kris11:
    That Swiss team really out coached Canada, eh?

    Maybe the Oilers could get one of those Swiss coaches?

    Oh crap…

    Krueger separated the wheat from the chaff, which got Tambellini fired, and dislodged Lowe from his bunker. Justin Schultz claimed Krueger was one of the reasons he chose the OIlers.

    Not bad work for 48 games.

    The MacT-Krueger dynamic is going to be fascinating. Tambellini didn’t know enough about talent or systems or analytics to challenge the coaches or the scouts. MacT does.

  71. godot10 says:

    Sam Gagner is the Alex Smith of the Edmonton Oilers, and we await the draft of Colin Kaepernick at #7.

  72. godot10 says:

    godot10:
    Sam Gagner is the Alex Smith of the Edmonton Oilers, and we await the draft of Colin Kaepernick at #7.

    Jim Harbaugh re-signed Smith and drafted his replacement, but didn’t rush his replacement. Alex Smith wasn’t an “urgent” problem for the 49ers, just like Sam Gagner isn’t an urgent problem for the Edmonton Oilers.

  73. Spydyr says:

    rickithebear: Wowy says they are better.
    Not me.
    that would be opinion if i said that.

    remember
    OPINION: a point of view not based on facts or Knowledge.

    you saying he does not make people better is the perfect example of OPINION!

    You are entirely right I stand corrected on the opinion of making players better.I do however stand by the rest.

  74. rickithebear says:

    Spydyr: 47 on take aways puts him in the bottom 25% of first and second line centres.

    Oh i was including the more physical less productive 120 centres.

    but top 60 oK
    Gagner: he was 17th in points for centres.
    But top 60
    Bks 21st out of 60
    hits 24th out of 60
    takeaways 20th out of 60

    there were 9 centers in the top 60 who were better than him in all three categories
    hits, blocks, takeaways.
    3 below him in scoring:
    Benn
    Bozak
    Stajan
    6 better than him in scoring
    E. Staal
    Getzlaf
    Tavares
    Stepan
    Duchene
    Kopitar

    when you include his PK and PP results.

    Only 8.25M/season getzlaf was better in RTSS, Pk, PP
    8.25M!
    EIGHT POINT TWO FIVE MILLION DOLLARS!

    Trade Him?

    REPLACE HIM!

    PERFECT PERCEPTION VERSUS RSULTS.

  75. gd says:

    godot10,

    Best analogy I’ve seen in awhile. Now we just have to hope our scouts know which C is Kapernick. Does this mean Couture is our Aaron Rodgers?

  76. Hammers says:

    Gags probably wants a long contract . At least 5 years and that maybe the tipping point on staying or going .

  77. jp says:

    rickithebear: Oh i was including the more physical less productive 120 centres.

    but top 60 oK
    Gagner: he was 17th in points for centres.
    But top 60
    Bks 21st out of 60
    hits 24th out of 60
    takeaways 20th out of 60

    there were9 centers in the top 60 who were better than him in all three categories
    hits, blocks, takeaways.
    3 below him in scoring:
    Benn
    Bozak
    Stajan
    6 better than him in scoring
    E. Staal
    Getzlaf
    Tavares
    Stepan
    Duchene
    Kopitar

    when you include his PK and PP results.

    Only 8.25M/season getzlaf was better in RTSS, Pk, PP
    8.25M!
    EIGHT POINT TWO FIVE MILLION DOLLARS!

    Trade Him?

    REPLACE HIM!

    PERFECT PERCEPTION VERSUS RSULTS.

    Please no one let Pat Morris see this.

    Just focus on the Corsi (and just from this season, not the previous ones).

  78. Rebilled says:

    Lowetide,

    You would think it would be.

    Lubo for Whitney looks really horribly brutally bad bad bad bad.

  79. Gret99zky says:

    Clitsome? Lovejoy?

    I am on board just to hear Gene’s puns for these two.

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