2013 ENTRY DRAFT POST 26: SATURDAY NIGHT TRADE WATCH

Apparently the Oilers are in on every possible transaction. One gets the feeling it could be an active night. Picks and prospects and lord knows what else heading out, actual NHL players coming in. AND a goalie?

LIST

  1. Sign Sam Gagner to a multi-year deal that has begins with a number in the 4′s.
  2. Get Paajarvi signed and then find a role that suits him (suspect it’s 3line).
  3. Deal Hemsky for immediate help (even if its a checker).
  4. Deal Horcoff or slot him into the 3line job for which he is actually ideal.
  5. Find a 2line L who can complement Gagner-Yakupov with puck retrieval, blocking out the sun, etc
  6. Find a 3line C to play with Paajarvi
  7. Find a 2line R to play with Paajarvi
  8. Find a 4line C to play with Smyth/Brown
  9. Decide on Lander/Belanger or other for 13F (and 14F if they go with 7D).
  10. Top 4 defender (a genuinely effective one, no ‘almosts or sortas’)
  11. Better blue depth (MacT has done this with Belov, plus Klefbom/Fedun/Marincin)
  12. Backup goalie
  13. AHL #1/NHL #3 goalie
  14. Sign Paul Ranger

The Oilers off-season moves so far (firing Steve Tambellini, MacT installed as GM, Eakins new head coach, Keith Acton added to the coaching staff, signing Anton Belov, saying goodbye to Tambellini’s free agents) should have several additions by this time Monday afternoon.

Rumors have the Oilers heavily involved in conversations over Braydon Coburn, Cory Schneider and Cal Clutterbuck. These could be the final hours for Shawn Horcoff as an Oiler, for Ales Hemsky too although reports suggest that’s unlikely this weekend. The Gagner contract progresses, no one mentions the young speed demon Paajarvi.

We wait. But we’re close.

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180 Responses to "2013 ENTRY DRAFT POST 26: SATURDAY NIGHT TRADE WATCH"

  1. Shafty19 says:

    To add to the latest list of rumors, Lowetide, it seems the Oil are in on Luongo too, if he’s the one that ends up leaving Vancouver. In addition, Dreger mentioned Paajarvi’s name when discussing Coburn, but said that he alone wouldn’t be enough.

  2. GordM says:

    If we are pursuing Schneider (given the expected cost) then clearly MacT sees an issue with Dubnyk. His stats suggest he has earned the right to see how he progresses (or not) this coming season. Perhaps it is the poor lateral movement I have read about on this site before??? I just don’t get why we would give up assets for a guy like Schneider opposed to just pursuing one of the many legit #2/#1B goalies out there.

  3. Gret99zky says:

    All this hype better result in something.

  4. BlacqueJacque says:

    Gret99zky:
    All this hype better result in something.

    As long as it isn’t Schneider for #7.

  5. fifthcartel says:

    I just don’t see why MacT feels goal-tending as the biggest priority to fix at the moment.

  6. jb says:

    I don’t see why people seem to think MacT’s return, combined with his him communicating his intentions to the public,means the MSM is all of a sudden getting leak after leak from the org like certain times in the past. One thing Lowetide needs to work on is bein able to weed out the BS.

    Vancouver goalie to Edmonton? I’d suggest finding out who first suggested that as a possibility and never again listen to that persons “rumors”.

    I hope to see something like Gagner for Phaneuf. Sign Nathan Horton. Straight up trade the #7 a semi expensive veteran defenseman.

  7. Numenius says:

    BlacqueJacque: As long as it isn’t Schneider for #7.

    As long as it isn’t Schneider at all.

  8. Marc says:

    fifthcartel:
    I just don’t see why MacT feels goal-tending as the biggest priority to fix at the moment.

    I posted this on the other thread.

    If I had to guess it would be that MacT knows that the D will at best be average next season and he wants a security blanket in net. He could lose a lot of the benefit of his off season acquisitions if Dubnyk regresses next season, which is entirely possible (goalies are wierd).

    A 1A/1B goalies set up as opposed to the traditional starter/backup set up not only mitigates the risk of a Dubnyk regression, but the lesser of the two can always be flipped for a decent return in the future – given the hunger for starting goalies in NHL there is every chance that whatever assets are expended to get a guy like Schneider can be largely recouped (if not improved) by moving on one of Dubnyk/Schneider at the trade deadline, or next offseason.

  9. spoiler says:

    1st rounder and a prospect is the rumoured price for Schneider per TSN Update.

  10. wordbird says:

    maybe it’s a PHI-EDM-VAN 3way? no idea how that would work (apart from Schneider to Flyers and Coburn to Oil). Hopefully MacT is just trying to be opportunistic, and not chasing whales/mirages…

  11. PunjabiOil says:

    Too much for Schneider. The marginal difference would not be worth the cost. Then you’re left with the fact that if Schneider plays well, you end up with him:

    a. either asking 6-7M in 2 seasons as a UFA

    b. Leaving without any return

    Let’s hope MacT is smarter than Tambellini. This is too much of buying high, selling low.

    Honestly would rather have Luongo’s contract than trading the #7 for Schneider.

  12. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    No Schneids. No Lous…. just sign Labarera or Khodobin already

    Never rush to help out a drowning GM. Never.

  13. PunjabiOil says:

    Luongo had a .907 SV% in 20 games last year. You’re taking a big gamble that not only does he have 9 years ahead of him, but that he’s not in a decline, or won’t shortly be in a decline.

  14. jfry says:

    I’m not sure why everyone is down on Schneider. He’s one of the best goalies in the game. Good teams go after those types of players in order to try and create better depth.

    As a fan group we seem to be very attaches to our players, which I get, bit we’re a bad team and have been for years. I’m happy to see mact looking to get better in all positions.

    big fan of getting Schneider

  15. Lowetide says:

    Not down on Schneider, I don’t know if he’s any better than Dubnyk is all. And if he ISN’T better, then why do that?

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    jfry,

    Not sure people are down on the player — though some are certainly chaffed at his disparaging the Oil and EDM.

    THe price is dear (if as reported they want the 7 plus).

    And… while G is a weak position for the team. Our #1 is set. getting another number 1 just creates havoc…

    I think these are good reasons to stay away from him without dragging the player down.

    ——–

    anyone wonder if we are in on the Vinny talks? Haven’t heard anything. If there was a rumor it might light up the Gagner contract situation.

  17. spoiler says:

    Oh dear…

    http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/latest/1/0/956793/clip/44

    “The Edmonton Oilers absolutely want Cory Schneider and willing to pay the price being asked… The expected price is the #7 overall…”

  18. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    get down to tangy town and sign Maggie already

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edDHYk12rhU

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/latest/1/0/956793/clip/44

    Good god. I’d much rather spend that money on Letang or equivalent.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler:
    Oh dear…

    http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/latest/1/0/956793/clip/44

    “The Edmonton Oilers absolutely want Cory Schneider and willing to pay the price being asked… The expected price is the #7 overall…”

    Something like this must have gone down between MacT and Dubs

    http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/962276/OILERSLAND3.jpg

    Dubs is a kind of relaxed, hippy of a hockey player. Sideburns is the only explanation.

    Damn hippies. Damn button-downs and their hatred of hippies.

  21. lazerguidedmelody says:

    Said this in the other thread. #7+ for Schneider is a horrible overpay, period. DD may never be more than a 1B, but there’s so many holes in this team to address first. Hopefully this is all baseless rumour

  22. GordM says:

    LT…will your head explode if the 3-for-1 trade you have been longing for is to bring in the Ginger goalie Schneider into town?!?!

  23. Rondo says:

    MacT is taking the temperature of most deals. He is doing the due diligence prior to the draft. He is going to have an idea what it will take for x. Things move fast at the draft and Mact is preparing.

  24. Lois Lowe says:

    I would absolutely trade the number 7 plus a prospect for Schneider. I know everyone is loathe to deal futures but IMO that trade is a no brainer. He’s one of the best goaltenders in the league and the acquisition cost is relatively minor. Not all high picks work out and Schneider is a legitimate NHL player in the here and now. I suspect his raise comes when there is a little more certainty with respect to the cap number and likely wouldn’t go over the Hall cap (if there is one) unless he has a Vezina type season.

  25. Lowetide says:

    GordM:
    LT…will your head explode if the 3-for-1 trade you have been longing for is to bring in the Ginger goalie Schneider into town?!?!

    No, I just need to understand the trade. I can certainly deal with a GM trading for someone who isn’t my choice–Coburn and Clutterbuck are examples–but I do not understand the deal as it stands.

    Do they have another home for Dubnyk? Do they deal Schneider to Philly after acquiring him for a C? I think we all know the Oilers problems, and addressing G is not one of the major items imo.

    I want to understand the thinking. The value of Schneider will still be there after the Oilers trade for him, so they can get value afterward. I don’t understand trading for another starting catcher when you have 3 starting pitchers.

  26. lazerguidedmelody says:

    Lois Lowe:
    I would absolutely trade the number 7 plus a prospect for Schneider. I know everyone likes prospects but IMO that trade is a no brainer. He’s one of the best goaltenders in the league that acquisition cost is relatively minor. Not all high picks work out and Schneider is a legitimate NHL player in the here and now. I suspect his raise comes when there is a little more certainty with respect to the cap number and likely wouldn’t go over the Hall cap (if there is one) unless he has a Vezina type season.

    Oh Lois, don’t make me sad, Schneider & DD = yes; a great tandem. But not at that price. There’s so much else to fix on this roster – D & C first, please. Let’s not waste bullets.

  27. Pablo Aimar says:

    I think this is a good moment to chime in here for the first time.
    Based on the rumors I predict the following:

    7th, Musil, and 2nd for Schneider

    Dubnyk and 2nd for Coburn

    Best use of resources? I don’t think so. But didn’t MacTavish mention in an interview that he was in on Bernier? I think he is very intent on upgrading the goaltending.

  28. "Steve Smith" says:

    Lowetide,

    I’m with LGM. Schneider is quality. The evidence suggests that he’s a clear upgrade on Dubnyk, particularly on the ESSV% metric. But we only have so much quality to give up to get quality, and Dubnyk is nowhere near the top of the list of reasons we’re out of the playoffs.

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Interesting take on Schneider here
    http://oilersnation.com/2013/6/29/one-big-thing-three-small-things

    JW adds slightly more context to his ON article here:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/06/29/rumour-edmonton-oilers-pursuing-canucks-goaltender-cory-schneider/

    FWIW, I complete agree with LT. This is wasted energy and a poor assessment of what ails the team.

    Assuming the rumors are true, here’s my hope. PHI or someone else outbids EDM, or Gillis is just bluffing everyone. MacT has a sad, but moves on to more serious items. Lives with a year of DD and grows to like the hippy.

    Look. we chased Messier as a coach. Sometimes fate makes up for your stupidity by giving the other party “family issues”… this is all I have left.

  30. Rondo says:

    Lois Lowe,

    Vancouver has had arguably the best overall defence in the league in the last couple of years. Schneider has really never been a starter for a whole season. Something happened during the playoffs this year and Lou started maybe it was the groin or maybe it was something mental , which was opined by some writers in Vancouver.

    7th and prospect is too much, Oilers don’t need to fix every hole in 1 year. Hopefully Oilers will be picking Monahan, Lindholm or Nchushkin.

  31. Cobbler says:

    Pablo Aimar,

    I don’t know if that is good value. Maybe they do something like that, but

    the 7th, 2 2nds, Musil and Dubnyk for Schneider and Coburn is collective highway robbery.

    You must be able to acquire a top flight D for that (less likely) or a Tyler Seguin (type) +.

  32. fifthcartel says:

    Something doesn’t add up, adding a top prospect on top of the 7th overall would be an awful lot to acquire a goalie. I’d imagine like others said, there’s a deal for Dubnyk that makes the assets lost less of a blow.

  33. godot10 says:

    Let’s brainstorm on LSD:

    Gagner and #7 to Vancouver, Schneider and #37 to Philly, Courturier and Coburn to Edmonton.

  34. lazerguidedmelody says:

    Pablo Aimar,

    Pablo: are you the Pablo Aimar who played soccerball for Valencia, Benfica, and Argentina? LT may disagree with me, the Spurs fan that he is, but hockey is the superior sport.

  35. Maverick says:

    Just watched the TSN video link and I think I just threw up in my mouth a little…..

  36. speeds says:

    Are Coburn and Schneider better than Khudobin and Leopold by enough to be worth 7OV, a top prospect, 37OV, and 56, and whatever extra cap room they’d cost?

    I suppose you have to be able to sign the players, myself, I don’t think the value is there to move Schneider for 7OV and a top prospect when he’s only signed for 2 more years

  37. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    godot10:
    Let’s brainstorm on LSD:

    Gagner and #7 to Vancouver, Schneider and #37 to Philly, Courturier and Coburn to Edmonton.

    so in the end it’s Gags, 7 and 37 for Couturier and Coburn?

    hmmm. too much.

  38. Pablo Aimar says:

    lazerguidedmelody,

    I wish I was. He is a very rich dude and was fun to watch when he played for Valencia.

  39. prairieschooner says:

    The roof leaks
    The windows are broken and need to be replaced
    We are going to fix the garden?

  40. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    speeds:
    Are Coburn and Schneider better than Khudobin and Leopold by enough to be worth 7OV, a top prospect, 37OV, and 56?

    no. not close.

    Besides it need not be one or the other. we can make the coburn move without even considering Schneids… which is what we should be doing.

  41. Maverick says:

    I can live with Dubnyk as the starter. Why use the assets to fill a hole in the roster that really doesn’t need immediate attention? Weird.

    I think MacT is getting too giddy with being a GM, I think we need to send him LT’s things to do list to keep him on track ;-)

  42. Maverick says:

    prairieschooner:
    The roof leaks
    The windows are broken and need to be replaced
    We are going to fix the garden?

    Exactly!!!

  43. bookje says:

    I hope MacT phones Tambellini for some sage advise before making the trade. Sometimes the best trades Are the ones you don’t make.

    As a coach MacT HATED sideburns and it cost his team (see Penner, Dustin). I fear this is affecting his view of Dubnyk. He needs to learn some advanced goalie stats like SAVE PERCENTAGE!!!

    Hopefully this is just TSN filling the void.

  44. gogliano says:

    My hope is MacT is trolling the Dys.

  45. FastOil says:

    godot10:
    Let’s brainstorm on LSD:

    Gagner and #7 to Vancouver, Schneider and #37 to Philly, Courturier and Coburn to Edmonton.

    I was thinking along these lines but the 7th is more than enough for Schneider. Gillis is hooped so will not be cashing in to get the help he needs to avoid buying out Luongo.

    How about 7th to Dys, Schneider/Horcoff discounted/(37th or prospect) to the Flyers, Couturier/Coburn to Oilers.

  46. "Steve Smith" says:

    bookje: He needs to learn some advanced goalie stats like SAVE PERCENTAGE!!!

    In fairness, the slightly more advanced version of save percentage (dividing it by discipline) makes Dubnyk look slightly worse, because he was riding a very high PPSV%, which experience tells us is less replicatable than ESSV%. I think advanced stats make a compelling case that Schneider is the superior goalie.

    But we only have so much to spend, and I’d rather worry about that leaky roof.

  47. Lois Lowe says:

    Rondo:
    Lois Lowe,

    Vancouver has hadarguably the best overall defence in the league in the last couple of years. Schneider has really never been a starter for a whole season.Something happened during the playoffs this year and Lou started maybe it was the groin or maybe it was something mental , which was opined by some writers in Vancouver.

    7th and prospect is too much, Oilers don’t need to fix every hole in 1 year.HopefullyOilers will be picking Monahan, Lindholm orNchushkin.

    I don’t buy the “Vancouver had the best D in the league’ argument as a reason not to acquire Schneider anymore that I buy the “Edmonton had shitty D so Dubnyk’s numbers ought to be higher’. Schneider’s performance was good enough for Gillis to give him the starter’s job and to want to move Louongo. Virtually every hockey pundit agreed with his assessment at the time. Even if he regresses slightly by coming to Edmonton, he’s still an upgrade over Dubnyk.

    As far as the ‘mental issues’ go. Unsubstantiated rumours at best. I live in Vancouver and listen to sports radio here. It was never anything more that people wondering and filling airtime during long rainy afternoons.

    What if the prospect is along the line of a Musil, Pitlick, or Hamilton? It doesn’t have to be anyone who figures too prominently in the Oilers plans.

    I think most on this blog overvalue draft picks and undervalue actual NHL players. If the Oilers make the that trade, the win it, because they got the best player in the transaction.

  48. spoiler says:

    bookje:
    I hope MacT phones Tambellini for some sage advise before making the trade.Sometimes the best trades Are the ones you don’t make.

    As a coach MacT HATED sideburns and it cost his team (see Penner, Dustin).I fear this is affecting his view of Dubnyk.He needs to learn some advanced goalie stats like SAVE PERCENTAGE!!!

    Hopefully this is just TSN filling the void.

    The link to the Oilers and Schneider has been repeated too much and too emphatically, for it to be filler I think.

  49. bookje says:

    spoiler: The link to the Oilers and Schneider has been repeated too much for it to be filler I think.

    I agree. Also, it’s not that I would mind Schneider, it’s more that I worry that MacT may be judging players on irrelevant criteria like how serious they seem. Some very intense and competitive people are pretty relaxed and casual in their character.

    With all of that said – I will wait and see what MacT actually does before being too critical.

  50. spoiler says:

    “He’s obviously much quicker than I am,” Luongo told NHL.com. “He’s technical and he’s quick, he’s always in perfect position to make the save. When you are playing that way, and also as athletic as he is — so if he does have to make a scramble save he has the ability to do that as well — it’s tough to beat him.

    “I can’t think of one thing to say where I find he has even a little deficiency.”

    “The way he plays is the way I have been trying to play.”

    –Robert Luongo on Cory Schneider, April 30, 2013

    Schneider was named team MVP this year. Tied for 1st in the NHL this season with 5 shutouts. Started 62.5% of Canuck games this year (sat a few with minor injuries).

  51. PunjabiOil says:

    You could likely get Hiller or Halak for much less than the 7th overall.

    The thought of trading 7th OV for CS is terrifying, let alone adding too it.

    Almost feels like 2007. Kevin Lowe talking a big game, couldn’t accomplish the trades or UFA signings, and went total bonkers that summer (Vanek, Penner, Souray, Nylander, etc).

  52. hags9k says:

    Schneider looked weak vs San Jose. I’m not sure he’s better than Dubnyk. His team plays better defense and inflates the %. My idea of MacT’s aiming high is not Coburn and Schneider. I hope these rumors are just that.

    Doobie has been taking baby steps forward each year. Give him a couple defenders and see if he can’t take a big stride.

  53. "Steve Smith" says:

    bookje: With all of that said – I will wait and see what MacT actually does before being too critical.

    STONE HIM!

  54. spoiler says:

    hags9k:
    Schneider looked weak vs San Jose.I’m not sure he’s better than Dubnyk.His team plays better defense and inflates the %.My idea of MacT’s aiming high is not Coburn and Schneider.I hope these rumors are just that.

    Doobie has been taking baby steps forward each year.Give him a couple defenders and see if he can take a big stride.

    Plenty of goalies post good SV% numbers on bad teams and plenty put up bad numbers on good teams. The correlation has been found to be weak.

    And the Canucks were a pretty hurtin’, injury-riddled bunch this year. That’s why they gave the MVP to Schneider… they thought he was the one responsible for a decent record in face of the injuries.

    Cory Schneider is a very good goaltender, but as has been mentioned above, goaltending isn’t exactly the biggest hole on the team.

  55. hags9k says:

    “Steve Smith”,

    Peavy Mart shopping list draft weekend…

    Comfy Shoes
    Bug Spray
    Torch
    Pitchfork

  56. Rondo says:

    Lois Lowe,

    With that reasoning I could name better players today than Seth Jones or MacKinnon on the Oilers and I’m not talking core players.

    Is Scheider better than Dubnyk yes but I’m arguing price.

  57. spoiler says:

    hags9k:
    “Steve Smith”,

    Peavy Mart shopping list draft weekend…

    Comfy Shoes
    Bug Spray
    Torch
    Pitchfork

    lol… don’t forget the tar and feathers!

  58. hags9k says:

    spoiler,

    OK I’ll admit he is likely an upgrade, but I also think the gap isn’t wide enough to deal 7 and there is a decent chance Dubnyk can erase the gap completely with another step forward in his play as soon as this year. And absolutely, we are shopping for ties when we are out of gitch.

  59. dessert1111 says:

    One way this rumour could make sense is if MacT strongly believes in building from the goaltender out and if he also believes Schneider to be a significant upgrade on Dubnyk. I don’t want Schneider, but a lot of that has to do with him trash-talking the Oilers. Just doesn’t feel right.

    That being said, I am ok with Dubnyk returning for another year but I won’t be terribly upset if he is replaced either, as long as there is a clear upgrade (of course).

  60. hags9k says:

    spoiler,

    Gunny sack..Full rib stained camo…

  61. Lewis Grant says:

    Looking at the numbers, you can make a case for Cory Schneider as the top goalie in the game. At the very least, top 5.

    I agree that we should not focus scarce resources on goaltending. But that aside, I think #7 for Schneider is a good deal for us. Put yourself in Vancouver’s shoes. Wouldn’t you feel robbed?

  62. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hags9k: Peavy Mart shopping list draft weekend…
    Comfy Shoes

    I see you are a devotee of St. Hubbins!

  63. hags9k says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Last thing you want during a good lynching is sore dogs!

  64. RMGS says:

    Schneider is a sufficiently better goaltender than Dubnyk to warrant interest, and I think he’s worth the 7th plus any prospect but Klefbom, Gernat, and Marincin. But, one uses those assets in a trade if he has little else to fix. As many have already mentioned, there are good goalies likely available for less.

    Now, I can’t see Gillis trading Schneider to a division rival, so what worries me most is how MacT’s ‘boldness’ (which may just be rashness) will play out in more realistic trade scenarios.

  65. speeds says:

    If EDM trades the 7OV + ??? for Schneider, I wonder if we’ll see the return of Dark Asia?

  66. Lowetide says:

    speeds:
    If EDM trades the 7OV + ??? for Schneider, I wonder if we’ll see the return of Dark Asia?

    Well you’ll see the entry of Dark Lowetide depending on the entire deal.

  67. jake70 says:

    hags9k:
    spoiler,

    OK I’ll admit he is likely an upgrade, but I also think the gap isn’t wide enough to deal 7 and there is a decent chance Dubnyk can erase the gap completely with another step forward in his play as soon as this year.And absolutely, we are shopping for ties when we are out of gitch.

    This is my feeling exactly. Well expressed. This may be a bit of a stretch but the league with a push on for more offense at the expense of the size of net and goalie equipment in years to come may offset any upgrade with CS. Smaller nets around the back would lead to easier wrap arounds no? How’s his side to side? Definitely not the same reach down low with him being shorter.

  68. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Looking up CS I found this:

    http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/04/02/milan-lucics-cory-schneiders-girlfriend-take-the-canucks-bruins-rivalry-to-the-next-level-no-word-if-sexy-pillowfight-scheduled/

    Somehow I’m less impressed by the claim that the EDM media is credulously following Paulina Gretzky to the exclusion of other media outlets following other young, attractive females loosely related to hockey.

  69. spoiler says:

    What if the Oil have say Maholtra, MacArthur and Coburn wrapped up… would we feel differently about a Schneider trade?

  70. fifthcartel says:

    Lowetide: Well you’ll see the entry of Dark Lowetide depending on the entire deal.

    If the plus is Klefbom or another first, does this blog spontaneously combust?

  71. hags9k says:

    Lowetide,

    Not him again! I still remember dropping my head after that Anaheim game when the post started it’s over, it’s over, it’s over…

    Cmon MacT just take somebody to the cleaners. Just once, please.

    By the way that was the game Hall became the captain and best player on the team in my eyes. He felt the season on the line and he poured his heart out.

  72. Lois Lowe says:

    Rondo:
    Lois Lowe,

    With that reasoningI could name better players today thanSeth Jones orMacKinnon on the Oilers and I’m not talking core players.

    Is Scheider better than Dubnyk yes but I’m arguingprice.

    I admit that it’s not the strongest argument, but equating 1 or 2OV and 7 is just as much of a stretch. The major reason why I support the move is because I think the acquisition cost is absurdly low due to Gillis being in a bind. If he’s willing to move a legitimate number 1 goaltender just entering his prime, who is VERY highly regarded around the league for a high draft pick like 7 (recall that most scouts are saying that 7 is in the ‘third tier of talent’) and a prospect, I simply can’t understand why you wouldn’t do it. After training camp, or during the year, Dubnyk would probably be able to fetch a similar return.

  73. Lucinius says:

    The biggest problem with getting Schneider is the idea that he’ll stay here long term to make the assets spent worthwhile.

    Given his prior comments regarding Edmonton and the Oilers? I don’t see that happening. You do not go after players like that.

  74. admiralmark says:

    Darren Dreger Reports: In Talks with Van re:Schneider

    “Make no mistake about it, the Edmonton Oilers are willing to pay the price and the expected price is the first round draft pick, 7th overall.. (in addition to a top prospect)”

    Ugh.. i’m gonna be sick!

  75. Rondo says:

    Lois Lowe,

    Well if you believe some scouts and others this years 5th and 6 th and 7th may have been #2 pick or 3 pick in other drafts. They are saying the top 40 picks would all be 1st rd picks in other drafts.

    Who knows.

  76. RMGS says:

    Lucinius:
    Given his prior comments regarding Edmonton and the Oilers?I don’t see that happening. You do not go after players like that.

    Ryan Kesler’s also dumped on Edmonton. Should the Oilers pass if he were made available?

    The whole “he said bad things about our great city” argument is a tad weak.

  77. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lucinius:
    The biggest problem with getting Schneider is the idea that he’ll stay here long term to make the assets spent worthwhile.

    Given his prior comments regarding Edmonton and the Oilers?I don’t see that happening. You do not go after players like that.

    Bingo. He’s got 2 years left at a reasonable price. does he want to stay and how much is an extension going to cost.

    This is a guy that has been bred to lead a playoff ready team… on the mild coast in the beautiful pac. n. west. Coming to EDM to struggle to make the playoffs isn’t going to be very attractive. I would expect bitterness.

  78. eidy says:

    Lots of chatter out there on the oilers. Any of the trades sound like wins to you guys. I expected not to win horcoff/hemsky but it would be nice to feel like one of the proposals was in our favour.

    With assets like #7 overall and cap room, shouldn’t we be in the position of power. GM school may be in full force and they might have caught the subtle hint that MacT is inpatient

  79. ashley says:

    Way too many leaks for this Schneider thing to be real. VAN said to MacT: Can we use you guys to get PHI to pay more for Schneider? VAN keeps leaking the asking price out to get PHI or some other team kicking the tires to pay up with more than what they have offered.

    If it was going to happen, it would have happened long before all these leaks. Probably.

    Speculation, obviously.

  80. leadfarmer says:

    Can we get Mr. Dithers back yet. Doing nothing would be better than overpaying for a mediocre goalie to a division rival.

  81. Lucinius says:

    RMGS,

    I said it was the biggest problem, not the only problem.

    I do not see Schneider working out for the Oilers, in any regard. I could be wrong, but at the price quoted by the media? Not worth it, imo, given the fact that goalies are a gamble at the best of times; even if they are excellent. Oilers have far more important holes to fill they could use these assets for.

  82. Rondo says:

    I can’t imagine Vancouver trading Schneider, they would be relying on a 34 year old goalie. How many 34year old and above are #1 starting goalies. Nothing against Lou but you never know when they just lose it. Odds say Lou probably has a year or 2. Quite the hole for Vancouver.

    Now if Schneider is a top 5 goalie in the league and you keep Lou and you know he has a couple of years at elite level maybe . Why make that trade? Smells fishy to me.

  83. admiralmark says:

    RMGS,

    Poor choice to use Kesler as an example.. He’s a shell of his former self. Get your point however Schneider for this years 7th overall plus high end prospect is simply asinine. I will personally change my mind about MacT’s intelligence instantly if he makes this trade as reported.

  84. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I gather we should discuss how Eriksson and Lack affect this deal. VAN has infinitely superior G depth than we do, than most do really. Not only can they afford to have on of their NHL Gs go… they can let their two other Gs fight it out for the #2 spot without really breaking a sweat. and both are cheap.

    crap I really wish we’d just wait until july 5 and sign Labarbera or Khodobin.

  85. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Crap! Pierre is back on TSN

    http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/latest/1/0/956801/clip/421

    presumably just a draft thing… but hey…. that guy!

  86. Captain Happy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I gather we should discuss how Eriksson and Lack affect this deal. VAN has infinitely superior G depth than we do, than most do really. Not only can they afford to have on of their NHL Gs go… they can let their two other Gs fight it out for the #2 spot without really breaking a sweat. and both are cheap.

    crap I really wish we’d just wait until july 5 and sign Labarbera or Khodobin.

    Vancouver also has 23 year old Joe Cannatta in the minors and he’s tracking well after an NCAA career.

  87. Dark Asia says:

    speeds:
    If EDM trades the 7OV + ??? for Schneider, I wonder if we’ll see the return of Dark Asia?

    Only for you speeds.

    DD has taken the red pill and does not shine mgmt shoes well enough – plus best buddy is Peckham – do the math. I figure word got out he was not impressed by “Dear Leader’s” work this year. The guy is gone I’ll be happy when he finds a new home.

  88. RMGS says:

    Lucinius,

    Your latter arguments merit debate. It’s just that some sort of indignation over what a player said about Edmonton should have no place in making a decision to improve your roster.

  89. gcw_rocks says:

    Why does it feel like the Oilers are about to go back to their whale hunting ways?

  90. spoiler says:

    Schneider’s comments are completely a non-issue:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?id=393050&hubname=nhl-canucks

  91. slopitch says:

    According to my texts Oilers are very close on Schneider. Only thing to stop deal is Gillis flaking out. So deal made in principle.

    No idea the cost but stay tuned. Likely a draft day deal if it happens but it’s close.

  92. RMGS says:

    admiralmark:
    RMGS,

    Poor choice to use Kesler as an example.. He’s a shell of his former self. Get your point however Schneider for this years 7th overall plus high end prospect is simply asinine. I will personally change my mind about MacT’s intelligence instantly if he makes this trade as reported.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on all your points but the last one – though for different reasons. I’ll buy that Schneider’s worth the 7th plus any other prospect but Klefbom, Gernat, and Marincin, except that the Oilers can fill much more important gaps using these assets.

  93. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    slopitch:
    According to my texts Oilers are very close on Schneider. Only thing to stop deal is Gillis flaking out. So deal made in principle.

    No idea the cost but stay tuned. Likely a draft day deal if it happens but it’s close.

    There’s a good chance that if this is the deal (7th + whatever), that the Oil will wait until they see who falls to them at 7, just like in all the other deals we’ve discussed relating to the 7.

    Or, maybe they are happy to let Nurse and the Russian go for Schneids but not Lindholm or Monahan?

  94. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?id=393050&hubname=nhl-canucks

    They don’t help. and they don’t give the impression of someone who would be amped up to take a #1 job in EDM.

    But yea… people saying crap in crazy moments. I don’t hold it against him. I do wonder if he wants to play and extend here though… but that question relates to most players.

  95. SpotTheLoon says:

    Lowetide,

    This is the thing that I find odd. Why go for Schneider when it isn’t a clear upgrade on Dubnyk? We all agree that there are needs elsewhere such as on defense and up front. I agree that we need greater depth in net but going after Schneider doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Perhaps it is all part of the big picture. But the prices that are being mentioned are steep. I don’t see how this all creates a more balanced team, except for possibly Clutterbuck and Coburn, if the price is “reasonable”.

  96. slopitch says:

    Ya I don’t love moving 7th+ myself. I don’t know return. I’d rather 2 2nds.

  97. Maverick says:

    If the Schneider deal is done in principle and I hope its not, but could the hold up be finding a new home for Dubnyk? Can’t see trading for Schneider and keeping Dubynk.

  98. voxwah says:

    This is so much crazy fun. Even E5 b.s. is fun on the eve of what could be one of the best draft days in years even though the Oilers don’t have the 1st overall pick. They very well could steal the show even without it.

    Cheers Oil nation and our host LT. Enjoy the ride. :)

  99. admiralmark says:

    RMGS,

    Schneider had a .927 save PCTG to Dubnyk’s .920. When you consider the defences that played in front of each of these goalies that .007 save percentage difference becomes even less. When you then consider that this years 7th overall is valued to be a 2nd-4th overall in previous years… That is a crazy price to pay. I don’t even need to hear what prospect they are talking about because giving up 7th overall in this years draft for a marginally better goalie then what we already have makes it a bad trade.

  100. Maverick says:

    Can you imagine if nothing happens tomorrow in the way of trades for the Oilers?

    Dear Gawd!!

    I think I will put some Rum on ice just in case. Either way, tomorrow I might need a beverage or two and maybe another after that.

  101. sliderule says:

    This can’t be real! I am dreaming am I not.

    Never never never sign or trade for a player who doesn’t want to be here.

    For those with short memories ,Pronger.

    For those with really really short memories ,Belanger.

    If they don’t like the city they will want out either through going thru the motions like Belanger or the press like Pronger.

  102. gogliano says:

    What I remember of Pronger is him bringing us within 60 minutes of the cup.

    Not saying I like the Schneider offers being floated about. Too much witchraft in goaltending to believe he’ll be a top 5 in three years time + entirely possible he walks in two years when the contract is done. I’d deal next year’s #1 for Schneider, though.

    And someone else mentioned this but the problem with MacT talking big is he has now blown up expectations.

  103. Captain Happy says:

    After the first 20 picks…it’s all pin the tail on the donkey:

    http://mit.tv/AaBXFv

  104. justDOit says:

    Oilers in on Coburn – Letang to the Leafs – Clutterbuck to Edmonton… but when there is a trade, nobody reported a whisper of a rumour of it. Nobody had Tanguay moving out of Calgary. Can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m glad to be working stupid hours this weekend. I’ve already wasted enough time searching out the latest ‘word on the street’ this evening.

  105. ashley says:

    sliderule,

    I don’t think it is real. MacT has connections to Gillis. They may be playing the game together.

    I think it’s either an intentional leak to get some other team to pay up, or the Oilers are indeed interested, but MacT has drawn a line in the sand that is far below what Gillis wants to get for Schneider.

    I expect Schneider will be trades to some other team tomorrow. If he does come to the Oilers, it will be for less than #7 and a good prospect.

    When real trades happen, there are less often rumours, and certainly not to this extent. We’re all getting taken down the garden path.

    Faith in MacT.

  106. Captain Happy says:

    admiralmark:
    RMGS,

    Schneider had a .927 save PCTG to Dubnyk’s .920. When you consider the defences that played in front of each of these goalies that .007 save percentage difference becomes even less. When you then consider that this years 7th overall is valued to be a 2nd-4th overall in previous years… That is a crazy price to pay. I don’t even need to hear what prospect they are talking about because giving up 7th overall in this years draft for a marginally better goalie then what we already have makes it a bad trade.

    From Willis at ON:

    “Over the last three seasons, Dubnyk has been a 0.917 save percentage goalie to Schneider’s 0.931. Even assuming Schneider is really a 0.925 true-talent goalie (a cautious approach), for a goalie playing 60 games (roughly 1,600 shots), that’s a difference of 13 goals per year – one every five games. It’s a big difference.”

  107. SpotTheLoon says:

    LT,

    Off topic but are you near passing out in your basement now after the football game? Your wife must be insufferable after the game. ;-)

  108. Lowetide says:

    SpotTheLoon:
    LT,

    Off topic but are you near passing out in your basement now after the football game?Your wife must be insufferable after the game.;-)

    Worse, she was kind and didn’t mention it once. Which means she’s feeling sorry for me which is 1,000 times worse. Lordy what a terrible game.

  109. SpotTheLoon says:

    Lowetide,

    Yeah, pity is about the worst reaction. :-(

  110. Rondo says:

    Would you make this deal?

    if Oilers give up their 7th and a prospect for Schneider and trade Schneider for Sean Couturier.

  111. skinny65 says:

    I’ve been freaking out a lot thinking about giving up the seventh pick to just marginally improve the team. But then I was thinking about last year. Every single rumor had us taking Murray. I remember being depressed and drinking heavily before the first pick. Of course a lot of that was that I didn’t trust mr dithers as far as I can throw him…and with my back back.
    I do trust macT a lot more, so I think we should be a little more cautious. Lets at least wait til he makes 1 deal before we toss him overboard.
    That being said, I’m nervous as hell, cause that deal sounds awful. Getting Clutterbuk, Coburn, and Monahan would be a great weekend far as I’m concerned.

  112. RMGS says:

    admiralmark:
    RMGS,

    Schneider had a .927 save PCTG to Dubnyk’s .920.

    If you use more than a shortened season as a sample and add save percentage at even strength (both of which you should), then it’s clear that Schneider is sufficiently better than Dubnyk. As Willis put it, one’s performed as a starter, the other as an elite starter.

    Don’t fret, though. There’s no way Gillis trades Schneider to a division rival. I’m betting MacT the rookie’s being played to the Dys’ advantage in a possible trade to an Eastern team.

  113. admiralmark says:

    Captain Happy,

    Ok fair enough and I actually do believe Schneider is the better goalie. I also believe the defence in front of you has a marginal effect on save percentage due to the volume and quality of 2nd and 3rd shots Dubnyk would of seen… Nevertheless I would like Schneider I just believe “this year” in “this draft” 7th overall is a heavy heavy price to pay… Why not fill in any one of the many glaring holes we absolutely know exist this year and see what Dubnyk can do? It”s not like we are going all in for the Cup this year.

  114. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RMGS: If you use more than a shortened season as a sample and add save percentage at even strength (both of which you should), then it’s clear that Schneider is sufficiently better than Dubnyk. As Willis put it, one’s performed as a starter, the other as an elite starter.

    Don’t fret, though. There’s no way Gillis trades Schneider to a division rival. I’m betting MacT the rookie’s being played to the Dys’ advantage in a possible trade to an Eastern team.

    It is worth recalling Ward and TSN anointed Iginla as a Bruin… which isn’t to say MacT isn’t chasing… just that the world works in funny ways.

  115. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Oilers came 29th in shots against and 19th in goals against.

    Goaltending is not the #1 concern.

  116. RMGS says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: It is worth recalling Ward and TSN anointed Iginla as a Bruin… which isn’t to say MacT isn’t chasing… just that the world works in funny ways.

    Seeing Aaron Ward embarrassed on that scale is almost divine payback for his evil deeds against the Oilers in game 7. :)

  117. Captain Happy says:

    One team I would keep a close eye on tomorrow is Columbus.

    Bobrovsky is demanding huge money and his agent has already played the KHL card.

    With 3 first round picks, 14, 19 and 27, I can see them moving the 14th and a roster player to get a goaltender.

    I’ve been hearing the Canucks really want Kirby Rychel but there is a good chance he’ll be gone at 24.

  118. justDOit says:

    Lowetide,

    You might not want to watch the Argo highlights then. Nice part of the CFL, is that it’s very competitive – most teams have a shot right up to near the season’s end. I don’t follow any other sport very religiously so I can’t be certain, but didn’t the Lions start winless in several, and then turn around to have a pretty good season in the last few years?

  119. Captain Happy says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Oilers came 29th in shots against and 19th in goals against.

    Goaltending is not the #1 concern.

    Being 19th in goals against in a league that has 16 teams making the playoffs may not be a #1 concern, but it is a concern.

    Some teams seem to be able to address several concerns at the same time.

  120. justDOit says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Where’s the props button on this darned site?

    If Eakins can work his systems like he did in the AHL, I believe the goals against will come down if MacT dithers through to TC.

  121. Captain Happy says:

    Strombone ‏@strombone1 1h

    Do you guys need me to announce any picks at the podium tomorrow @VanCanucks ?

    Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1h

    @strombone1 @VanCanucks. We have a spot on the panel.

    Strombone ‏@strombone1 1h

    @DarrenDreger don’t want to sit next to that diva @tsnjamesduthie

  122. Lois Lowe says:

    If the Oilers can do 7OV plus Rajala for Schneider, then flip Dubnyk for a pick in the 17-23 range and prospect, then select Lazar; are you all happy with the outcome?

    I heard a ton posters bashing Tambellini for not wanting to give up assets to acquire players and for dithering when deals where there to be made. What I hear now is that most are happy to keep all the draft picks and wait the 3-5 years for them to make an impact in the NHL. You simply can’t have it both ways.

  123. ohhell says:

    From a somewhat contrarian perspective, and given that MacT has irons in every fire out there, the CS play might just be noise intended to signal/motivate other GMs. Any transaction that MacT makes, effectively eliminates other alternatives that were previously being considered. So, if the #7 is in play with other GMs, this may be a signal to them to reposition other offers on the table. I suspect that all we have here is a whole lot of posturing going on and a sports network that is desperate for something to report. Crickets all day. I agree with the poster who mentioned the lack of rumours surrounding the Tanguay trade and suspect that is how things will play out.

    From my prespective, I hope the CS deal is smoke. I believe we have bigger needs and that deal would use up a valuable bargaining chip in filling those needs; or worse, have us watching Monahan ot Nichuskin turn the Oilers red light on for years to come.

  124. Rondo says:

    I’ve heard Gillis talk about not having the luxury of a high pick in the draft.

    Flyers desperately need a goalie.

    Oilers needa two way center.

    7th + prospect (?) for Schneider.

    Trade Schneider for Couturier.

    Everyone wins depending on who the prospect is.

  125. ohhell says:

    Rondo,

    I could live with this.

  126. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Captain Happy: Being 19th in goals against in a league that has 16 teams making the playoffs may not be a #1 concern, but it is a concern

    Welll yeah, but being 29th in shots against is a lot bigger one, & it’s not on the goalie.

  127. Lowetide says:

    The only thing I can think of is that the Oilers have a deal in place for Dubnyk that involves a pick. Otherwise, they’re trading 7th overall in a very deep draft for two years of Cory Schneider.

  128. Lucinius says:

    Lois Lowe,

    This kind of deal might make more sense if the Oilers were on the verge of being a contender, but they aren’t. High draft picks, especially in deep draft years, should be kept to keep players coming as the years go by (to keep the team competitive, once it gets there, cheaply) unless you are getting a massive upgrade in a position of weakness.

    Dubnyk in net, while worse than Schneider, doesn’t crack the Oilers top five problem areas, much less a position of weakness.

    Were this for a high end d-man or second line center, etc., that are established? Sure, use that #7 overall and prospects. But to blow it on a small upgrade that may or may not work out (because, you know, goaltenders are bloody crazy and predicting how they’ll do year to year on the SAME team can be a suckers bet, much less when they move to a completely new team — they can get mysteriously better or worse with zero reason). Goaltending is not an area you blow your wad, as it were, unless you’re coming from a position of weakness (like, say.. Philly).

    For me its more the position and degree of upgrade that makes this trade a horrifically bad idea at the cost. Next years first round pick instead of this year’s would make a lot more sense to me.

    Nevermind the prospect they want in addition is, supposedly, a center.. it basically means Anton Lander, whom I’m a fan of being a cheap piece of the Oiler puzzle in another year or two.

  129. dessert1111 says:

    RMGS: Ryan Kesler’s also dumped on Edmonton. Should the Oilers pass if he were made available?

    The whole “he said bad things about our great city” argument is a tad weak.

    I would suggest that it represents some sort of trade request risk if he was acquired.

  130. Captain Obvious says:

    Everything about this trade is obvious.

    It is obvious that Schneider is better than Dubnyk.

    It is also obvious that the team with the worst shot differential in the league but not the worst goal differential doesn’t have a goaltending problem

    This won’t make the team better. It will make the goaltending better. Get a good team and then worry about the goaltending.

  131. ohhell says:

    I’m calling a Luongo buyout and no-trade for CS.

  132. Rondo says:

    ohhell,

    I’m guessing if a deal like that could go down, Vancouver will wait to see if the player they want is still available. That player i would guess is Nichushkin

  133. ohhell says:

    Gillis may be “feeling” things out, but practically, the Lou contract is killer and needs to be eliminated. It’s the only way. If not this year, then next, so why wait?

  134. speeds says:

    Lois Lowe:
    If the Oilers can do 7OV plus Rajala for Schneider, then flip Dubnyk for a pick in the 17-23 range and prospect, then select Lazar; are you all happy with the outcome?

    I heard a ton posters bashing Tambellini for not wanting to give up assets to acquire players and for dithering when deals where there to be made. What I hear now is that most are happy to keep all the draft picks and wait the 3-5 years for them to make an impact in the NHL. You simply can’t have it both ways.

    I prefer making good trades, or more actively addressing needs, vs. not making trades or not actively addressing needs. But I also prefer not making trades to making bad trades. How is that having it both ways? It’s not like trading for Schneider is the only possible way to improve the club, or that EDM couldn’t find other ways (UFA, other trades, offer sheets) to improve the club while retaining the 7th OV pick, arguably the 6th single most valuable player or asset in the organization.

  135. Kris11 says:

    I like Schneider.

    I’d take him for the 7th straight up.

    Then deal Dubnyk in a package for Coburn.

    Good stuff.

    That gives you elite G and solid Top 6D. All you have to do is shuffle the bottom 6 F’s. Horcoff and Hemsky out. Whatever in for depth.

    That is a contending team if Yak looks as good as he did at the end of the season, if everyone is healthy, and if RNH and Gagner can play well enough at both ends of the rink.

  136. ashley says:

    speeds,

    Agree with most of this, though I would entertain offers for 7OV.

    A very valuable asset, to be sure, but valuable when? Not next year, and probably not even the year after that. Maybe a rookie two years from now, and start being valuable when the pick is 21yo in 2017?

    The clock is ticking on our core. That’s not to say we run out and make a bad trade. But we have to listen. It makes the draft junkie in all of us squirm, especially after investing all the time we have drawing out different scenerios of who will be left for us to pick, but if there is a solid top pairing NHL roster dman on the table still in ELC, we have to look at it carefully. That trade makes this team better by clustering the talent and balancing the roster.

  137. hags9k says:

    jake70,

    That’s an interesting point. Has there been any news about how serious they might be about changing the nets?

  138. tapper says:

    Never posted before but holy hell…Bernier went for a depth F, backup G, and 2nd rounder. #7 for Schneider is lunacy!

    The market for G is established. Gillis is trying to create a fantasy market.

    This whole business about wanting a young C as well is a ploy…we’re supposed to feel good about *only* giving up #7.

  139. spoiler says:

    tapper:
    Never posted before but holy hell…Bernier went for a depth F, backup G, and 2nd rounder. #7 for Schneider is lunacy!

    The market for G is established.Gillis is trying to create a fantasy market.

    This whole business about wanting a young C as well is a ploy…we’re supposed to feel good about *only* giving up #7.

    That’s a good point, but Bernier wan’t the starter and MVP for his team either. I don’t like the rumoured price, but Schneider is always going to bring more than Bernier.

  140. spoiler says:

    Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger

    Sources say the Coyotes are closing in on a 6 year deal with Mike Smith. Not done yet, but believed to be around $5.5 mil per year

    That might bring down Bobrovsky’s asking price.

  141. Captain Happy says:

    Allan Walsh ‏@walsha 36m

    Just got off the phone with an NHL executive. “Never heard so much trade chatter, overwhelming how many guys are in play.”

  142. speeds says:

    ashley:
    speeds,

    Agree with most of this, though I would entertain offers for 7OV.

    A very valuable asset, to be sure, but valuable when?Not next year, and probably not even the year after that.Maybe a rookie two years from now, and start being valuable when the pick is 21yo in 2017?

    The clock is ticking on our core.That’s not to say we run out and make a bad trade.But we have to listen.It makes the draft junkie in all of us squirm, especially after investing all the time we have drawing out different scenerios of who will be left for us to pick, but if there is a solid top pairing NHL roster dman on the table still in ELC, we have to look at it carefully.That trade makes this team better by clustering the talent and balancing the roster.

    I’m not saying don’t trade the 7th, I’m saying don’t trade it for a player only under contract/team control for 2 years.

    In terms of valuable when – the Oilers could easily make a bunch of moves and still miss the playoffs this coming year. Then you’re left with one year of Schneider, who might look at a team that’s missed the playoffs for 8 years and think to himself ” I’ll sign somewhere else next summer unless they overpay me”.

    There’s also nothing saying they can’t go out and trade for/sign players that fit more deficient areas of need while retaining the 7th overall, or using the 7th overall (plus, in a package) to find a player that fits better in the short and long term, either under contract or team control for more than 2 years.

  143. Captain Happy says:

    speeds: I’m not saying don’t trade the 7th, I’m saying don’t trade it for a player only under contract/team control for 2 years.

    In terms of valuable when – the Oilers could easily make a bunch of moves and still miss the playoffs this coming year.Then you’re left with one year of Schneider, who might look at a team that’s missed the playoffs for 8 years and think to himself” I’ll sign somewhere else next summer unless they overpay me”.

    There’s also nothing saying they can’t go out and trade for/sign players that fit more deficient areas of need while retaining the 7th overall, or using the 7th overall (plus, in a package) to find a player that fits better in the short and long term, either under contract or team control for more than 2 years.

    Please name all the quality players who are currently on the market who can be “controlled” for more than 2 years.

  144. tapper says:

    Off the cuff, comparable to Bernier deal would be (signed) Jones, Dubnyk and #37, where Dubie and #37 are arguably improvements over Scrivens and the ’14/’15 pick position.

    You wouldn’t trade #7 for that package…

  145. Lowetide says:

    Is Bernier a comparable talent? I don’t think he’s close.

  146. Lois Lowe says:

    speeds: I prefer making good trades, or more actively addressing needs, vs. not making trades or not actively addressing needs.But I also prefer not making trades to making bad trades.How is that having it both ways?It’s not like trading for Schneider is the only possible way to improve the club, or that EDM couldn’t find other ways (UFA, other trades, offer sheets) to improve the club while retaining the 7th OV pick, arguably the 6th single most valuable player or asset in the organization.

    Okay, so why is Schneider not a good trade or not addressing a need?

    If Dubnyk is a middle of the road starter and Schneider is bona fide elite goaltender; is that not an upgrade? Especially considering that there would be a return for Dubnyk when he is inevitably dealt.
    Now, you might say that there are questions about whether Schneider can be an elite goaltender, but I would counter with the fact that most NHL clubs consider him to be one already. The naysayers seem to largely be confined to the Oilogosphere so far as I can tell.

    Of course dealing for Schneider is not the only way to improve the Oilers, but if the acquisition cost is right, then I don’t see how it harms their chances. They still have lots of other assets (2 2nd rounders, plus 5 good D prospects, Horcoff and Hemsky) to address the F and D positions. That is, of course, excepting the untouchables.

    Here is a list of 7OV picks, for the most part they’ve faired well but there are some dogs in the list. Can we be sure that the Oilers are going to get the right guy?

    http://wild.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=634384

    If you were to make the argument that this is likely the last of the Oiler’s high draft picks, I might listen, as I do think the team will improve next year. But you seem to be saying that 7 OV isn’t ever worth moving because of their projected value rather than their actual value.

  147. ashley says:

    speeds: I’m not saying don’t trade the 7th, I’m saying don’t trade it for a player only under contract/team control for 2 years.

    In terms of valuable when – the Oilers could easily make a bunch of moves and still miss the playoffs this coming year.Then you’re left with one year of Schneider, who might look at a team that’s missed the playoffs for 8 years and think to himself” I’ll sign somewhere else next summer unless they overpay me”.

    There’s also nothing saying they can’t go out and trade for/sign players that fit more deficient areas of need while retaining the 7th overall, or using the 7th overall (plus, in a package) to find a player that fits better in the short and long term, either under contract or team control for more than 2 years.

    We’re on the same page then. I agree that #7 is too much for Schneider, let alone #7 and a prospect. Not because Schneider is bad. He’s one of the best.

    But if the deal included a contract extension at reasonable dollars, I think it could be a good deal for the Oilers.

  148. spoiler says:

    speeds: I’m not saying don’t trade the 7th, I’m saying don’t trade it for a player only under contract/team control for 2 years.

    In terms of valuable when – the Oilers could easily make a bunch of moves and still miss the playoffs this coming year.Then you’re left with one year of Schneider, who might look at a team that’s missed the playoffs for 8 years and think to himself” I’ll sign somewhere else next summer unless they overpay me”.

    There’s also nothing saying they can’t go out and trade for/sign players that fit more deficient areas of need while retaining the 7th overall, or using the 7th overall (plus, in a package) to find a player that fits better in the short and long term, either under contract or team control for more than 2 years.

    I would imagine that a discussion with Schneider’s agent would occur before any trade for Schneider did. You would want to know how he felt about the trade…that if he’s going somewhere, and the Oiler deal is the best offer, how he would feel about Edmonton being the destination.

    And yes, re-signing would depend on the team and player’s success in the interim, but they have two years and if they’re not having success in that time, something is horribly horribly wrong.

    Life is not without risk, and that’s not a bad one to take.

    I want the player; I just would rather not give up the 7th in a legendary draft year to do it.

  149. Cactus says:

    Lowetide:
    Is Bernier a comparable talent? I don’t think he’s close.

    They’re com

  150. gogliano says:

    Captain Happy: Please name all the quality players who are currently on the market who can be “controlled” for more than 2 years.

    The player chosen #7 tomorrow for starters.

  151. Cactus says:

    Lowetide:
    Is Bernier a comparable talent? I don’t think he’s close.

    They’re comparable in that they’re both under 100 games. Schneider has had great numbers thus far, but he still hasn’t been around long enough to establish a reliable career average. He could easily wind up closer to Dubnyk/Crawford than many think. This isn’t Patrick Roy joining the Avs.

  152. Lois Lowe says:

    Bernier and Schneider would be comparable if Quick would have lost his job to Bernier at some point over the last two years, otherwise Schneider is clearly the superior player.

  153. fuzzy muppet says:

    Why chase a goalie when it was just proven that a decent goalie can win you a cup if the rest of the team is good enough?

    This might be Mact’s way of challenging DD. Mind games.

    They won’t make any trades until they know who is available at #7…..unless they trade UP

  154. Captain Happy says:

    gogliano: The player chosen #7 tomorrow for starters.

    So you wouldn’t trade an actual top 10 NHL goaltender for a lick and a promise?

  155. DBO says:

    Schneider is an upgrade on Dubnyk, and a major one on Bernier. However it is not about improvement so much as value over replacement. I think baseball has a stat like that (do not remember), but essentially what does this player bring you in terms of wins over his replacement.

    Can the 7th get you a better upgrade? I know many here don’t love Coburn, but he is an upgrade on our 3 LD (was Whitney, right now it’s Belov) because that is who he would be replacing in the lineup. Clutterbuck over Ryan Jones?

    That is what i hope the team focuses on. How many more wins does this player get us over his replacement. And if the 7th gets you more by dealing for a different player or position, then you do that one instead if at all.

  156. tapper says:

    I see .922 vs .927.

    If that’s not close then we’re splitting some mighty fine hairs.

    And the .922 kid is younger with a better draft pedigree.

    Neither is proven.

    Also, it’s pretty easy to imagine both those numbers would drop coming to the chaos that is the Edm d-zone, say somewhere under .920. Oh wait…

  157. PunkInDrublic says:

    First time poster, but long time reader. ( Great work by the way LT.)

    The only reason i can see MacT trading for Schneider is for a three way/flip to Philly. It makes no sense otherwise and thus the confusion from virtually everyone in the forums.

    Could this be MacT’s way of prying Coburn AND Couturier out of Philly? There has to be more to this than what we’re hearing.

  158. Captain Happy says:

    tapper:
    I see .922 vs .927.

    If that’s not close then we’re splitting some mighty fine hairs.

    And the .922 kid is younger with a better draft pedigree.

    Neither is proven.

    Also, it’s pretty easy to imagine both those numbers would drop coming to the chaos that is the Edm d-zone, say somewhere under .920. Oh wait…

    You’re looking at a very small sample size.

    Try this:

    From Willis at ON:

    Over the last three seasons, Dubnyk has been a 0.917 save percentage goalie to Schneider’s 0.931. Even assuming Schneider is really a 0.925 true-talent goalie (a cautious approach), for a goalie playing 60 games (roughly 1,600 shots), that’s a difference of 13 goals per year – one every five games. It’s a big difference,

  159. speeds says:

    Captain Happy,

    If there aren’t any players available that are under team control for longer/fit the needs better, keep the pick.

  160. bookje says:

    One thing to consider. Cory Schneider has a worse NHL Playoff record than Dubnyk and Dubnyk has never played in an NHL playoff game!

  161. speeds says:

    Lois Lowe,

    7th overall picks can be worth moving, I just don’t think Schneider is a good enough fit right now. He’s a very good goalie, probably an upgrade on Dubnyk going forward, but he’s not signed for long enough IMO to move the 7OV pick.

  162. Cameron says:

    Rondo,

    Rondo:
    Would you make this deal?

    if Oilers give up their 7th and a prospect for Schneider and trade Schneider for Sean Couturier.

    Why wouldn’t the Canucks just flip Schneider for Couture themselves? The most likely answer is that Couturier is not available.

  163. Rondo says:

    Because in my scenario Vancouver wants Nichuskin. Only a thought because I can’t believe Oilers would give up so much for Schneider.

  164. Bar_Qu says:

    1AM eastern and nothing has happened at all.

    Trade deadline day all over again, but with slightly less substance. At least there is something of value to watch tomorrow.

  165. commonfan14 says:

    spoiler: I would imagine that a discussion with Schneider’s agent would occur before any trade for Schneider did. You would want to know how he felt about the trade…that if he’s going somewhere, and the Oiler deal is the best offer, how he would feel about Edmonton being the destination.

    Jeff Carter to Columbus says hi.

  166. Smarmy says:

    Ugh I hated just about everything I read about the Oilers today.

    I wonder if I should pre-make my poison right now so it’s ready for a fast imbibe when needed.

  167. spoiler says:

    commonfan14: Jeff Carter to Columbus says hi.

    I honestly can’t remember.– was Carter leaked beforehand?

  168. spoiler says:

    Tambo is having his mid-morning nap when his cell phone rings. Sluggishly, he picks it up.

    Gillis> Yo,Slo-mo Tambo, old buddy, old pal… I’ve got a trade for you!

    Tambo> I get to make a trade!?

    Gillis> You were fired and exiled remember?

    Tambo> Oh yeah…

    Gillis> Here’s the deal, Molasses… I want you to leak to the media that the Oilers are willing to give up their 7th and a prospect for Schneider… I want either Schenn or Couturier from Philly, don’t matter, but they’re shopping D. Need some smoke to build the price… Work with me, buddy.

    Tambo> Sure, sounds like fun! I sure do miss the failed trades. But, what’s in it for us?

    Gillis> You get first kick at Keith Ballard.

    Tambo> Done!

    Tambo> Hey, how do you know this is going to work?

    Gillis> You have no idea of the effect of the MSM on the Internet do you? Which reminds me… no more using your TreenasOil account, dumbass, go to Dreger from now on.

    *****

    Has to be, right? Right?

    I mean wouldn’t Vancouver have a far greater interest in improving their team right now. Aren’t they going to want an actual NHL player, preferably a Center?

    I could believe this rumour more if the offer from us was more along the lines of Petry, 2014 2nd rounder, for Schneider and Ballard (for purposes of buyout… and then we’d re-sign a bought out Gilbert, trade for Coburn).

  169. spoiler says:

    commonfan14: Jeff Carter to Columbus says hi.

    And wasn’t he already signed long term?

  170. commonfan14 says:

    spoiler,

    I don’t think a specific package got leaked like this, but there were significant rumours that Holmgren did a nice job of denying.

    And he was already signed long-term, which makes the terrible outcome for Columbus even with that “security” all the more scary.

  171. Gret99zky says:

    Anyone else get the feeling that less than 4 out of the 14 items on the “to do list” actually get done?

  172. spoiler says:

    commonfan14:
    spoiler,

    I don’t think a specific package got leaked like this, but there were significant rumours that Holmgren did a nice job of denying.

    And he was already signed long-term, which makes the terrible outcome for Columbus even with that “security” all the more scary.

    Yes, sure, sorry shouldn’t have been so focused on the actual trade. It seems to me though that Carter was blindsided by the trade, whereas it doesn’t appear Schneider will be.

    In the end, as I said above, I think the comments are irrelevant, they don’t seem to indicate any hate of Edmonton, and that the key to his re-signing will be success on the ice (something Carter didn’t have either).

    And… (really in the end this time), I really can’t believe this deal’s on the table… I can’t see why they would trade him in the division, and I can’t see why they wouldn’t trade him for an actual NHL forward.

  173. admiralmark says:

    Gret99zky:
    Anyone else get the feeling that less than 4 out of the 14 items on the “to do list” actually get done?

    Yes. I always felt that the to do list MacT has set in front of himself was a 2 year project. I say he gets half the list done by this years Trade deadline at best.

  174. Chris says:

    So to summarize our abrieviated season, the Oilers underlying numbers regress from when Tom Renney was in charge…likely in part because Krueger wanted to use weird Euro systems, and the only reason we finished higher in the standings was because we got significantly better goaltending from Dubnyk. Clearly it therefore follows that we must run out and aquire a better goaltender?

    I’m not saying that Schneider isn’t better than Dubnyk. He is, but the marginal improvement for the team isn’t nearly as great as bringing in one or more solid defenders. This team needs defensemen and two way forwards like a junkie needs crack and we’re going out to spend finite assets on goaltendings where we aren’t badly off? Why the hell does Dallas get Jim Nill and we get another 80s retred?

  175. 8p0intgame says:

    How about (with no other subtractions):

    7 OV + N. Schultz + Klefbom + 56 OV to Montreal for P.K. Subban

    and

    Gagner + 37 OV to Boston for Tyler Seguin

    RNH-Hall-Eberle
    Seguin-xxx-Yakupov
    Horcoff-Paajarvi-Hemsky
    Belanger-Smyth-Brown

    Subban-J. Schultz
    Smid-Petry
    Belov-Potter

    Dubnyk
    xxx

  176. jb says:

    I decided to expand on my msm intake tonight. Lets use Lecavalier For example. My logic says Lecavalier would be a nice signing while dealing Gagner. Jim Matheson says there’s 0 chance he signs in a Canadian city, tsn has their “sources” suggesting Lecavalier meeting with Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver having some interest as well. While ignorant masses probably assume he’s automatically signing in Montreal because of his French name…

    Why the hell are media outlets allowed to call other media guys and quote them as a “source”. These types deserve to be ignored.

    Look at Oilersnation.. The current articles are just summaries of all the unfiltered bs out there.. Does Jonathan Willis summing it all up really add credibility to any of these rumors? I think most people would like to think it does but I don’t get the desire for misinformation and false hope..

    That said, can’t wait for the real action to start.

  177. Ribs says:

    Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC

    Gillis on Schneider: sometimes a team calls you about a player and it gets out

    I think he forgot the *wink* at the end of that.

  178. Henry says:

    If the price for Schneider is a good first and a prospect, why hasn’t Holmgren just done that? We’re being Gaslighted.

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