2013 NHL ENTRY DRAFT POST 11: TOP 30 (2.0)

As promised last Friday, here’s a new look (tweaked and two added/deleted) as we get closer to the final 30 on June 28th. There’s little movement at the top, but 11-20 is still a little in flux and two new additions to the top 30 (#28 and #30) bump out a couple of very good hockey players.

  1. L Jonathan Drouin: The best offensive player in the draft–ridiculous skills and an NHLE just shy of 50.
  2. C Nathan MacKinnon: Wide range of skills, outstanding prospect and a Sept 1 birthday.
  3. D Seth Jones: Incredible prospect, projects as a franchise defenseman.
  4. C Sasha Barkov: Size, across the board skills and he’s playing in a pro league.
  5. C Elias Lindholm: Outstanding talent, may end up playing the wing.
  6. L Valeri Nichushkin: King Kong on skates is an attractive player with a fascinating tool kit.
  7. C Sean Monahan: Oilers target, key tumbler for new MacT building up the middle. Wide range of skills.
  8. D Rasmus Ristolainen: I stubbornly believe he’s the second best D option.
  9. D Darnell Nurse: Nice range of skills, good size and has been trending since the end of the season.
  10. C Bo Horvat: Trending due to nice range of skills. Solid offense, tough and a load.
  11. C Curtis Lazar: Nice range of skills, strong player who provides enough offense to bat high in the order.
  12. D Ryan Pulock: Nice skills, and a monster shot. Can play defense too, a nice 2-way defender.
  13. C Max Domi: Subpar Memorial Cup will hurt his final draft number.
  14. C Hunter Shinkaruk: Somewhat one dimensional, but that dimension (shooter) is golden.
  15. L Artturi Lehkonen: Finland produces an outstanding skill W who could be underrated at this number.
  16. C Fredrik Gauthier: 6.05, 210 C with skill, intimidating size and he’ll likely play on a skill line.
  17. L Anthony Mantha: Goal scorers go high, always been thus.
  18. C Nicolas Petan: I know, he’s very small. Don’t care.
  19. D Nikita Zadorov: Huge defender with speed, don’t see the offense.
  20. C JT Compher: Wide range of skills, a very nice skill set.
  21. L Kerby Rychel: A trending player, he’s skilled and mean.
  22. D Mirco Mueller: A wonderful young defender. Size, speed, smarts.
  23. C Alex Wennberg: Lanky skill center with speed and quickness; playing in Swe2 league.
  24. L Adam Erne: Another exceptionally skilled winger, he’s also rugged and has average NHL size.
  25. D Josh Morrissey: good speed, excellent at moving the puck and solid defensively.
  26. R Valentin  Zykov: Solid offensive player with good size.
  27. D Madison Bowey: Puck moving defender with good wheels.
  28. L Andre Burakowsky: Good puck skills, can make plays at high speed and driving to the net.
  29. C Laurent Dauphin: A very nice skill player.
  30. D Chris Bigras: Two-way defender with good speed and surprising defensive acumen for his age.

 

THE LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

fey

Today on Team 1260 at 10am, we hit the airwaves. Lots of open line time today, your comments always welcome @Lowetide_ on twitter or 10-1260 on your phone. Scheduled to appear:

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83 Responses to "2013 NHL ENTRY DRAFT POST 11: TOP 30 (2.0)"

  1. Philosophil says:

    Many variables in the this draft, but size is a constant. Have to think Zadorov is selected earlier.

    Goalies – any chance Fucale or Jarry are taken first round?

  2. Lowetide says:

    Phil: I spoke to Pronman yesterday and he has Jarry #1 among goaltenders. Now, he ranks them low (and gives his reasons) but my bet is that Fucale goes between #21 and #30.

  3. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Philosophil: Goalies – any chance Fucale or Jarry are taken first round?

    Button had Fucale at 8th in his final draft rankings.

    which seems absurd. But it’s probably a fair bet that one or two Gs go in the first.

  4. slopitch says:

    I still cling on to hope that Nichushkin slides. You don’t acquire James Neal’s or Billy Guerin’s easily. Look how well Lucic/Hartnell are paid and I suspect Clarkson gets his money too. The top 9 could really use a 6″4 power forwards – especially one on an ELC.

  5. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Any word on when BM’s list is coming out… I assume TSN will do some special around it… but unless I’m missing it:

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/

    I can’t see it scheduled yet. Does anyone remember when they did it last year? I’m guessing shortly after the SCF.

  6. Radman says:

    Have a feeling the Oil somehow come out of the first round with Horvat or Lazar and Rychel. Suspect compete level is at the top of the resume in the MacT era .Others need not apply.

  7. Lowetide says:

    Radman:
    Have a feeling the Oil somehow come out of the first round with Horvat or Lazar and Rychel. Suspect compete level is at the top of the resume in the MacT era .Others need not apply.

    I’m betting Barkov if they deal up, Monahan if he’s at 7 and then one of Horvat or Lazar if they deal down.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Any word on when BM’s list is coming out… I assume TSN will do some special around it… but unless I’m missing it:

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/

    I can’t see it scheduled yet. Does anyone remember when they did it last year? I’m guessing shortly after the SCF.

    Probably holding off to see if this is a quick SC final. Suspect the WED before the draft.

  9. Woodguy says:

    Soria contends that Kruger improved the team because they finished 24th and not 29th.

    That argument doesn’t hold water.

    The Oilers points percentage 11/12 was .451
    The Oilers points percentage 12/13 was .469

    Hardly a reason to break out the party hats.

    Lets have a look at the standings now:

    In 11/12r only CBj was worse with a .396. Montreal was at 28th with .476

    In 12/13 there were 6 teams worse than the Oilers, here are their points percentage:

    CAL .438
    CAR .438
    NAS .427
    TBY .417
    COL .406
    FLA .375

    If the Oilers had last year’s points percentage this year they would have finsihed…wait for it…24th!!!

    If the Oilers had this year’s points percentage last year, they would have finished….wait for it….29th!!!!

    The Oilers were awful this past year and regressed in many categories.

    To say they were better because 6 teams were worse this year instead of 1 makes no sense at all.

  10. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    slopitch: You don’t acquire James Neal’s or Billy Guerin’s easily.

    Not to be a dick… And I add the caveat that I make apostrophe errors all the time… but this one gives me the twitch.

    When using a person or thing as a plural example you don’t need the possessive apostrophe.

    “If you need a good example of memorable British character actors look no further than the Peter Bulls of the cinema world.”

  11. Radman says:

    Lowetide: I’m betting Barkov if they deal up, Monahan if he’s at 7 and then one of Horvat or Lazar if they deal down.

    LT. Talent aside, do you think that the Oil are more apt to buy North American as opposed to Euro given recent headlines ?

  12. Lowetide says:

    Radman: LT. Talent aside, do you think that the Oil are more apt to buy North American as opposed to Euro given recent headlines ?

    I think the Oilers love the CHL. LOVE the CHL. But they have shown a willingness to draft Swedes in the first round (Paajarvi is the highest drafted Euro player in Oiler history), and I do think Lindholm is a guy who is in the mix. I don’t believe he’ll be there, though.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: Soria

    who is “soria”?

    at any rate, I heard Gregor make the same argument much to my chagrin.

    It has a certain guttural appeal — finishing better in the standings must mean being better. It’s the same thinking that says winning is all that matters. In some very real sense that is a truism. But that first blush really doesn’t get you very far… especially now that we have so many more tools at hand to evaluate performance.

  14. mumbai max says:

    I am convinced Nichuskin slides to 7. Would love to be a fly on the wall and hear what gets offered for him. I would take him but i suspect MacT will get a very useful player and a mid round pick. Should be fun. Waiting for bold ( but not stupid).

  15. Smarmy says:

    If my team picked up Pulock around 12. I’m not sure I’d like it but I haven’t seen him good at all. I don’t know how he finished up but he had a skid where guys were saying he was playing so bad he’d fall out of the first round.

  16. slopitch says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Girl: your such an asshole
    Guy: you’re
    Girl: OMG your so annoying
    Guy: you’re
    Girl: FINE! I’m going to kick YOU’RE ass
    Guy: your

  17. Radman says:

    Lowetide,

    The question mark on MPS is not skill of course but willingness to compete in NHL game. He’s finding that it seems. Hunch is MacT will go with CHL products in the first two rounds. Test driven in the North American game.

  18. Woodguy says:

    For the record (again) the roster was a much bigger problem than the coach, but the coach didn’t add any value imo,

  19. Jordan says:

    It’s pretty clear that MacT has changed the definition of BPA that the scouting staff use to evaluate players, and that Skill, character, and exp. playing C are huge priorities for this club.

    Two Questions I have about this for you wonderfully intelligent people:

    1 – What impact do you think this will have on Oilers prospect ability over the next few years? My guess would be that overall, the quality would be somewhat lower, as they are more likely to leave money on the table by limiting who (positionally) they are willing to pick, but… that’s just a guess on my part.

    2 – Do you think that this is a good plan for the club? (Please explain why)

  20. thebiggestmanintheworld says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    ” It’s the same thinking that says winning is all that matters ”

    Spoken like a true Oiler fan…..

    Winning IS all that matters.

    Not sure what impact Tyler Seguins Corsi number will have on his reputaion if he wins another Cup…

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    slopitch,

    haha!

    classic.

    ———

    Lowetide: I think the Oilers love the CHL. LOVE the CHL. But they have shown a willingness to draft Swedes in the first round (Paajarvi is the highest drafted Euro player in Oiler history), and I do think Lindholm is a guy who is in the mix. I don’t believe he’ll be there, though.

    here’s a question about confidence for you.

    Last year you had Forsberg at 8th on your personal list:

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/06/draft-week-post-6-final-top-30.html

    so, I think it is fair to say his slide (from BM’s 3rd overall) probably didn’t upend your expectations to the extent it did many others.

    But I’m wondering if we can have something like “strong” or “weak” confidence in a player’s being taken by a certain number.

    If Lindholm slid, like Forsberg and Teravainen did last year… would it be a great surprise?

  22. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    thebiggestmanintheworld:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    ” It’s the same thinking that says winning is all that matters ”

    Spoken like a true Oiler fan…..

    Winning IS all that matters.

    Not sure what impact Tyler Seguins Corsi number will have on his reputaion if he wins another Cup…

    Like I said:

    “In some very real sense that is a truism.”

    All the same, we have so much more information now at our disposal. To ignore it and simply look at the final score seems very shortsighted.

    Or, knowing that you won but barely because your team sucks is going to be helpful when down the road you try and improve your chances of winning.

  23. spoiler says:

    The more I look into it, the more I am stunned at how strong and even the prospects ranked from 10-30 in this draft are. Very little separation between players. Any of those kids could turn into something special, and most of them are going to have decent careers.

    That means there’s not a lot of incentive for those teams to trade up, unless they’re getting into the top 10 for a player they really covet.

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Jordan:
    It’s pretty clear that MacT has changed the definition of BPA that the scouting staff use to evaluate players, and that Skill, character, and exp. playing C are huge priorities for this club.

    Two Questions I have about this for you wonderfully intelligent people:

    1 – What impact do you think this will have on Oilers prospect ability over the next few years?My guess would be that overall, the quality would be somewhat lower, as they are more likely to leave money on the table by limiting who (positionally) they are willing to pick, but… that’s just a guess on my part.

    2 – Do you think that this is a good plan for the club?(Please explain why)

    I think the experience at C is probably a long term focus, but at the moment is at a fever pitch given organizational need that will die down somewhat. That is, it may well be an issue this year (if they trade down for example) but I doubt it’s a long term issue.

    I’m not convinced skill will be depleted (I gather you mean in favor of position and character) given MacT’s comments about needing “size with skill” and no longer finding players with “no offensive threat”

    I think LT’s vision is probably near to MacT’s: look for players with a wider range of skills, but not less skill.

  25. spoiler says:

    Would it be fair to say that the Oil’s best opportunities for trading down will come if Nichushkin is still on the board at 7?

    Strikes me that it would be.

  26. RMGS says:

    LT, where do you guess MacT’s Oilers have Frédérik Gauthier on their list? It’s tough not to notice a 6’5″, 215 lb C with skill (4th best rookie in the Q). I know it seems like Lazar and Horvat are their fallback options, but is it possible they have Gauthier in the mix at the C position should Monahan be gone and they trade down?

  27. Jordan says:

    spoiler,

    I think you’re likely right on the mark here.

    However… if the giant russian PF is on the board there…. I know I think that would be a really tempting pickup for the Oilers. I recognize the need for C, but… he sure has a lot of the attributes that I expect the next Lucic would have. I mean, I’d love to dream he becomes more than that, but with those KHL numbers, it’s hard to be sure there’s more upside there.

    If he’s still on the board at that point, you’ve got to think someone wants to gamble on him.

  28. Jesse says:

    Woodguy: For the record (again) the roster was a much bigger problem than the coach, but the coach didn’t add any value imo,

    A big thing that I don’t see many people mentioning, at least very often, is the fact that Krueger didn’t have a training camp and only had a 48 game, condensed schedule trial run. I *am* very happy with the Eakins hiring, but damn, I loved Ralph Krueger, and so did his players. I’m not saying that MacT made a bad choice, I guess it just seems like an awful lot of heat placed on Krueger for underperforming under pretty trying circumstances. That doesn’t necessarily absolve him of all of his shortcomings, there were obviously oddities with line matching, etc. But I’d be interested in looking in to the performance of each of the previous coaches of the Oilers in their first 48 games.

  29. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: who is “soria”?

    at any rate, I heard Gregor make the same argument much to my chagrin.

    Capitals are a wonderful thing.

    Can we agree that this is the internet, all quick and dirty, and leave minor apostrophe and other grammatical gaffes alone?

  30. spoiler says:

    Jordan:
    spoiler,

    I think you’re likely right on the mark here.

    However… if the giant russian PF is on the board there…. I know I think that would be a really tempting pickup for the Oilers.I recognize the need for C, but… he sure has a lot of the attributes that I expect the next Lucic would have.I mean, I’d love to dream he becomes more than that, but with those KHL numbers, it’s hard to be sure there’s more upside there.

    If he’s still on the board at that point, you’ve got to think someone wants to gamble on him.

    He concerns me too. I think a lot is being made of one famous goal. Not that he doesn’t have the skill, but I wonder about his drive and his consistency…work rate… that sort of thing.

    I have him ranked lower than LT does.

  31. jonrmcleod says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Who is “Soria”? Check LT’s list of radio guests.

  32. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: Capitals are a wonderful thing.

    Can we agree that this is the internet, all quick and dirty, and leave minor apostrophe and other grammatical gaffes alone?

    Wait… is “soria” a typo? a capital typo? who is “Soria” then?

    this is a genuine question!!

    (again, sorry if the grammar bit upset the apple cart. It wasn’t meant in the “grammar scold” mould as I tried to make clear…)

  33. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    jonrmcleod:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Who is “Soria”? Check LT’s list of radio guests.

    haha… and there’s the answer!

    thanks! Somehow never encountered this fellow in the Oilogosphere

    for some reason “soria” sounded like some kind of organization, like The Soria Institute of Research.

    At any rate, here’s the article WG was referencing:

    http://ourhometown.ca/edmonton/sports/RS0681.php

    On the article, this is the damning part IMO:

    There are those that will point to the advanced stats and how badly the Oilers were out shot during the season, which is a valid point, but this team has been getting badly out shot for years. While shots on goal generally go a long way in helping determine overall scoring chances and puck possession numbers, they do not determine whether or not a team’s season has been a success. Just go ask the Toronto Maple Leafs.

    All I know, is Edmonton were being badly out shot as of April 3rd and were still sitting eighth in the West.

    That’s not a terribly compelling argument. And, I’m pretty sure this is a straw man:

    “Ralph Krueger was not the problem in Edmonton and for anyone to suggest as much, is not only an insult to the job he did but just flat out wrong.”

    I think the number of people blaming RK for the oil to the exclusion of mgt. failures has to be a very short list.

  34. Mr DeBakey says:

    The Oilers points percentage 11/12 was .451
    The Oilers points percentage 12/13 was .469

    No Eastern Conference games!

    C Laurent Dauphin: A very nice skill player.

    I’m hoping he stays on the board til 37, but I’m not counting on it.
    I was thinking an all Center all the Time draft would be just the ticket:
    7 ->. Monahan/Horvat
    37-> Dauphin
    56-> John Haydon

  35. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Woodguy: If the Oilers had last year’s points percentage this year they would have finsihed…wait for it…24th!!!
    If the Oilers had this year’s points percentage last year, they would have finished….wait for it….29th!!!!

    Good eye, Woodguy.

    Meanwhile, Oilers managed to finish dead last in shots differential this year, after three straight years of being way up in 29th place.

  36. LMHF#1 says:

    If Nichuskin is there, you have to either take him and immediately begin cackling like a super villain, or make a players + pick Mogilny style trade.

    Those are pretty much the only things I’d be happy with if he’s on the board. If we Parise/Getzlaf this I will lose it.

  37. Lowetide says:

    Jeff Chapman from C&B will also be along this morning, to discuss a terrific article

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/13/4422608/lets-make-a-draft-deal

  38. sliderule says:

    LMHF#1:
    If Nichuskin is there, you have to either take him and immediately begin cackling like a super villain, or make a players + pick Mogilny style trade.

    Those are pretty much the only things I’d be happy with if he’s on the board. If we Parise/Getzlaf this I will lose it.

    I would think the fact that Nichushkin at the combine quit on the bike will move him off MacTs list

  39. LMHF#1 says:

    Would anyone do #7 + for James Neal? (or less if that’s what it took)

    Between PIT’s cap situation and the emergence of guys like Bennett he may well be expendable.

    He’s great for us. Large, 40-goal scoring (once) LW who’s fairly tough.

  40. Captain Obvious says:

    #7 for Neal: Probably not, but would have to think about it.

    From the article:

    #7 for Sekara and #16: I would do this trade for sure.

  41. WeridAl says:

    With Nashville desperate for a big C, why would they trade down and pass up on Barkov. IMO the Oilers would draft a D or trade down before they would pick Lindholm. Not knowing what the loon Feaster will do, I would trade up with Carolina and take Monahan.

  42. Jesse says:

    I realize this doesn’t tell the whole story, but the records of the past three Oilers head coaches after the first 48 games of their tenure:

    Pat Quinn: 16-27-5
    Tom Renney: 15.25-8
    Ralph Krueger: 19-22-7

    Points percentage is obviously a much better indicator. In each of their first seasons as head coach:

    Pat Quinn: .378
    Tom Renney: .378
    Ralph Krueger: .469

    Idk. I think there were obvioulsy things that didn’t go well with Krueger, and I’m not totally convinced that I’ve assembled the most pertinent data to look at. I guess just feel like Krueger’s getting a harsher send off than he deserves.

  43. spoiler says:

    Lowetide:
    Jeff Chapman from C&B will also be along this morning, to discuss a terrific article

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/13/4422608/lets-make-a-draft-deal

    Wow, Chapman had too much to dream that night. No way the Sabres trade the best value contract on their roster just to move a pick up when they already have one in the range.

  44. Rocknrolla says:

    For all you Road Trip fans, the young stars tournament tickets go on sale at 11am today. I am gonna do a trip out to Penticton for the tourney and want to invite others here on LT’s blog.

    Should be a great weekend to end the summer.

    http://ev6.evenue.net/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/SEGetEventList?groupCode=SPORT&linkID=global-penticton&shopperContext=&caller=&appCode=

    Or

    http://www.valleyfirsttix.com/

  45. godot10 says:

    The Krueger bashers are somewhat selective in their analysis.

    1) comparing Krueger’s 1st year without a training camp and with a compressed schedule with Renney’s 2nd year.

    2) Not taking Renney’s easy eastern conference games out of the comparison.

    3) Neglecting Krueger’s top quintile special team’s. And a superior power play two years running.

    4) Neglecting the destruction of Paajarvi and Lander under Renney.

    5) Krueger explicitly employing a longer term strategy to develop his ES game.

    Etc

  46. FastOil says:

    Jordan:
    It’s pretty clear that MacT has changed the definition of BPA that the scouting staff use to evaluate players, and that Skill, character, and exp. playing C are huge priorities for this club.

    Two Questions I have about this for you wonderfully intelligent people:

    1 – What impact do you think this will have on Oilers prospect ability over the next few years?My guess would be that overall, the quality would be somewhat lower, as they are more likely to leave money on the table by limiting who (positionally) they are willing to pick, but… that’s just a guess on my part.

    2 – Do you think that this is a good plan for the club?(Please explain why)

    BPA is more than only skill level. There are a lot of skilled players in the world, boatloads. What there aren’t a lot of is skilled players with enough drive to devote their lives to being an NHL player so they can be consistent, and enough brains and discipline to develop a full game.

    I think that is what MacT wants, more rounded players that have the right make up to be effective/impactful NHL players. The Oilers have drafted a lot of players with one primary strong attribute and not enough of anything else.

    Thank goodness for a new mandate for scouts. LT has written many positive things about the prospects, but really every good young player in the system not a LD is on the Oilers already. There is one undersized guy at RD in Fedun (size is a problem for him because he is not an offensive player so will be expected to have a physical game more than likely). I don’t consider Musil a strong prospect because he projects at best as a third pairing guy and can’t skate. There are no goalies but everyone gets a pass there because they are insane, likely aliens and not projectable.

    Right now there isn’t a single forward really making a consistently strong case for themselves in the system other than a perimeter guy listed on the Barons site at 163 lbs. Andrew Shaw is 180, Steven Gionta 185, Omark 180. Rajala has the skill, seems smart enough to score in a good league despite being the size of a 15 YO, but that usually is not enough for the world’s best league. He’ll have to hit the gym hard if he wants an NHL career.

    I feel MacT’s new direction is a very good thing. Everything he has said about his strategy has been perfect for me (his loose lips about his current roster I think was not a good idea). Hiring Eakins was ballsy and the right thing to do (because MacT realized he and Krueger weren’t on the same page so why waste a season only to replace him), again being the Oilers they handled people poorly and to me arrogantly.

    Being an Oiler fan well spoiled and then long beaten down, humiliated, insulted, reviled, extorted, let down (no thrown down) and generally made to be untrusting, because there are so many good and sensible things happening I can’t help feeling something bad has to happen to compensate ;)

  47. godot10 says:

    6) Renney had Gilbert for most of the season. Krueger had to play a rookie in the top 4 against tough competition.

    7) Management forced Krueger to be short a player most of the season by refusing to waive Peckham.

    8) management refused to hire an associate coach.

    Etc

  48. russ99 says:

    Krueger forced the kids to play the toughs – with similar results. Also Krueger didn’t infuriate Hall the way Renney did with his idiotic system, overall inflexibility and poor decision making.

    That alone puts Krueger way ahead of Renney.

    They had essentially the same roster, and Krueger had an even further epic failure of the veterans and bottom six in key situations.

    And yes, Krueger had better results.

  49. Truth Movement says:

    Edmonton Oilers‏@EdmontonOilers1m
    #Oilers agree to terms with forward Mark Arcobello (@sporkabella) on a one-year contract extension | READ > http://ow.ly/m2MWg

    Well, there’s a pleasent surprise.

  50. FastOil says:

    godot10:
    6) Renney had Gilbert for most of the season.Krueger had to play a rookie in the top 4 against tough competition.

    7) Management forced Krueger to be short aplayer most of the season by refusing to waive Peckham.

    8) management refused to hire an associate coach.

    Etc

    Krueger didn’t have it easy but he did do some pretty odd things for the NHL and they didn’t work.

    Perhaps he would have been a good coach, but he didn’t mesh with his new boss. Often that leads to unemployment. I don’t like how they handled him but I wasn’t convinced he wouldn’t write off another season despite some good peripheral things.

    It’s worrying when you’re the only team in the NHL running a system and you are getting hammered in the process. Again he may have had Tambellini’s blessing instead of waiting a half year for a training camp. Either way it cost them both their jobs. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

  51. godot10 says:

    A GM is entitled to pick his own coach. I have no issues with the Eakins hire. I do have issues with people judging Krueger on such a small sample size and with extenuating circumstances.

    Renney has a long track record of dismal NHL coaching.

  52. Lowetide says:

    Pleasantly surprised by the Arcobello signing. I think he’s a guy we could see as a 4-5C in Edmonton, or the first injury callup.

  53. Henry says:

    Arcobello is a MacT type of player, very smart. I wonder what the terms are that kept him out of Sweden. Perhaps a raise similar to the numbers Danis got this year I would think.

    Maybe he was just told that he’ll have a fair shot at NHL TC this year.

  54. regwald says:

    Originally Eric posted this on Jun 11. So, obviously something changed to keep him in OKC. $$$ since the term is only 1 year.

    Eric Rodgers ‏@AHLBarons 11 Jun

    Arcobello with a rumor to Brynas of the SEL. Like I said, watch the RFAs this season. Teemu signed to two-year deal with Salavat. #OKCBarons

  55. bookje says:

    Woodguy,

    I think its very difficult to assess Ralph Krueger fully given the situation. The guy had 2/3 of an NHL team (at best), according to him (in nuanced, but clear terms) he had to spend a lot of time trying to make up for two fairly incompetent assistant coaches, and it was an oddball season (no east coast teams to beat up on, no training camp, etc.). I am not arguing that RK is a good coach and he certainly didn’t prove that he was during his tenure. There were some positives such as the play of MPS near the end of the year, but not enough. However, it is possible that he goes on to have great success elsewhere under more normal NHL conditions.

    With all of that said, I think it’s fine that MacT fired him. MacT is the GM and a GM needs to be able to hire or fire the coach without concern for being fair. It makes no sense to keep the coach and have tensions regarding strategy or team make-up.

  56. dessert1111 says:

    Yay Arco!! This is great news. One year playing for a (hopefully) competently-run team to make his mark. If it doesn’t work out he can always head to Europe after. This could shape up to be an interesting training camp as far as roster spot competition goes.

  57. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ecstatic about Arco.

    I’ll be very curious to see how the Centre depth chart shakes out down in OKC (not to mention up in EDM). Lander, Arco and Miller. All young prospects with some distance between them and the NHL, but pushing all the same.

    I gather OKC is going to need to retain Green (or the like) to ensure some kind of vet depth at C down there… or at least some size! haha

    My question is going to be whether MacT falls into the top6 vs bottom6 size trap and relegates Arco to top6 call up duty only. And whether this signing is early season insurance on RNH’s recovery.

  58. Racki says:

    Arco, definitely a good minor league player, for the Barons.. so I’m pleased with this signing. Not much indication that he’s an NHLer yet, but he hasn’t really had the opportunity to show it (a 1 game try out isn’t going to cut it). I don’t really have high hopes for him, but I’d love to be surprised. At worst, he’s a good option for injury call up.

    As for Krueger debate.. I think he’s a fine coach. He didn’t have all that good a team to work with. I don’t think Eakins or anyone else would do well with this group. But I think Eakins will be a better coach for the team because he’s in line with MacTavish’s line of thinking. I also think that having a “technical” coach (who is also apparently a good motivator) will be much better for the team anyways. But I had no issues with Krueger. Hope he finds a job somewhere soon-ish.

  59. wheatnoil says:

    Arcobello may never be a real NHL player, but having a guy who can kill it at the AHL level as a call-up option in case of injury is a good decision. I like the signing, but I’m surprised by it. I thought the Miller signing spelled the end for Arcobello.

    Given Arcobello’s performance in the AHL, I think it’s reasonable to look at him as a player to watch at training camp… he has a real shot at cracking the roster if Eakins willing to give him ice-time on the 4th line or keep him around as the 13th forward to slot in centre or wing in case of injury. It would make more sense having Arcobello in that slot than Lander (for instance), who would be better served playing top minutes in the AHL for development (though I fear Lander may be slotted for the 4th line centre role next year).

  60. Lois Lowe says:

    The more I think about it, the more I am suspicious of Barkov’s offence. I have no idea why, maybe it’s the translation of points from SWE/FIN Elite leagues to the NHL for rookies to the North American game for forwards. Karlsson and Brodin both acquitted themselves very well as rookies, but I can’t seem to recall many forwards doing the same. MPS and Lander’s offense certainly didn’t carry over, though they aren’t of the same pedigree as Barkov.

    As far as Krueger goes, I actually think that he would have made a great associate under Eakins.

  61. wheatnoil says:

    Lois Lowe:
    The more I think about it, the more I am suspicious of Barkov’s offence. I have no idea why, maybe it’s the translation of points from SWE/FIN Elite leagues to the NHL for rookies to the North American game for forwards. Karlsson and Brodin both acquitted themselves very well as rookies, but I can’t seem to recall many forwards doing the same. MPS and Lander’s offense certainly didn’t carry over, though they aren’t of the same pedigree as Barkov.

    It’s a bit tough since, at the end of the day, the majority of top picks are from the CHL, so you have smaller sample sizes to go on. MPS and Lander didn’t have their offense translate with them, but they only scored 17 and 12 points (respectively) in their draft year. It was impressive that they were playing against men, and holding their own, but they were never tearing it up the way Barkov has been. Even in their Draft + 1 year (and Draft + 2 for Lander), they didn’t come near Barkov’s near point-per-game rate. Mind you, Barkov is playing in a different league (SM-Liiga) than MPS/Lander did (SEL) and the SEL is a stronger league than the SM-Liiga. I have no idea what the equivalency is between the SEL and SM-Liiga to compare the scoring rates. It certainly makes comparisons hard.

  62. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I really hope Arco, Rajala, Omark, Lander and down the road Miller get a chance at the 4th line next year (preconceptions about “checking” lines be damned)… Arco and Lander especially should be given a chance at the wing (ie., having a 4th line of all centres)

  63. wheatnoil says:

    Actually… I guess if I use Desjardins equivalencies, that would give Paajarvi an NHL-E of about 20 points for his draft year and Barkov an NHL-E of about 40. The question of whether those Desjardins equivalencies are still valid or need to be updated is a different story.

  64. wheatnoil says:

    Lois Lowe,

    So I guess my point is that Barkov is in a totally different league than Paajarvi and Lander (with an NHL-E double that of Paajarvi), so I don’t feel that Paajarvi and Lander’s offensive difficulty should necessarily reflect on Barkov’s. Sorry it took me three rambling posts to get to that point.

  65. Lois Lowe says:

    I kind of pointed to that fact WheatnOil, I said he was of a different pedigree than Lander and MPS. But what other forwards have come out of SM-Liga or the SEL and have had impressive numbers over their first 3 seasons?

  66. Ryan says:

    Woodguy:
    For the record (again) the roster was a much bigger problem than the coach, but the coach didn’t add any value imo,

    That’s the thing Darcy…

    The consensus around these parts is that Krueger’s a very bright guy even so far as a ringing endorsement to that effect from the venerable Tyler Dellow.

    The same has been said of Dallas.

    IMO, I think there’s a difference at least in their verbals between the two. Krueger sounds superficially really bright–but there wasn’t much depth or substance to anything he ever said.

    Contrast that with a guy like Mact–who’s razor sharp wit not only sounds superficially really bright but when you distill out what he actually says from the charm of his dialogue, there’s a depth of understanding and insight.

    Going further… there was great consensus that Mact as a coach squeezed every ounce out of his roster. I don’t think we really saw any evidence of that from Krueger. In fact, he seemed to lack the ability to make effective adjustments either game-to-game and especially in game when things were clearly not working.

    In broad terms, there’s verbal, non-verbal as well as emotional intelligence. I’m not sure what the optimum mix is for a coach, but Daryl Sutter’s shown you can win a Stanley cup without being a silver tongued devil.

    From what little I’ve heard from Eakins, he’s not quite as flashy of communicator as Krueger, but it sounds like there’s more substance to what he actually has to say.

  67. Magnus says:

    I’m all for Monahan or Lindholm at #7. However, if the team were to trade down and (along with another move) come out of the first round with both Horvat and Rychel, I would be quite happy.

  68. wheatnoil says:

    Lois Lowe:
    I kind of pointed to that fact WheatnOil, I said he was of a different pedigree than Lander and MPS. But what other forwards have come out of SM-Liga or the SEL and have had impressive numbers over their first 3 seasons?

    The problem is that very few players have come out of the SM-Liga or SEL with the type of scoring Barkov has. Over at Copper n Blue, Scott Reynolds is doing comparables for all the top draft picks and only Granlund, Jokinen, the Sedins, Forsberg and Naslund have had numbers even comparable to Barkov (for the SEL, I used comparable NHL-Es). So there’s a pretty small sample size and it’s all pretty good.

    Mind you, Lindholm has a similar NHL-E to Barkov… it’s just that Lindholm is smaller and may end up playing the wing.

  69. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think you mentioned something about Krug and MAB.

    I tweeted this out on June 7th:

    Darcy McLeod ‏@Woodguy55 7 Jun
    Krug is a better all around version of MA Bergeron when he came in the NHL. Another good, smaller, offensive minded undrafted Dman.

    Great minds and all.

  70. Woodguy says:

    Ryan,

    Going further… there was great consensus that Mact as a coach squeezed every ounce out of his roster. I don’t think we really saw any evidence of that from Krueger. In fact, he seemed to lack the ability to make effective adjustments either game-to-game and especially in game when things were clearly not working.

    Agreed with all of it.

    In particular what I quoted above.

    He seemed more married to his ideas, and forced them in situations that called for more thinking on his feet.

    His refusal to take advantage of every icing was an indicator of this.

    He always had one offensive line rested enough to take the next shift, and the number of times he’d start the 3rd or 4tfh line in the ozone after an icing made me crazy.

    Not expoliting every edge you get in a game is inexusable for a NHL coach.

    Refusal to play “who was going that night” more than others…..

    How many games was Lennart JesusChristAlmightPetrell within 5min of 5v5 TOI of 14 and 4?

    Kruger was being the 8 ball in many respects due to a lack of camp, but he sure ignored many edges he could have gotten and seemed more married to his “philosophy” rather than make in-game adjustments.

    When you read about great coaches, or listen to the pros who played for very good coaches one of the first things that is mentioned is their ability to adjust the strategy in-game.

    Scotty Bowman was famous for playing “whoever was going” together and giving them the bulk of the ice time.

    You’d see none of that from Krueger.

    Some people hate the “MacBlender”, but every good coach does it.

    It was rarely a part of Krueger’s arsenal.

    His team didn’t seem to figure out his “super pinch” system with very active D at the opp Blue and neutral zone, but he never deviated from that either.

    I don’t think he brought a lot of value.

  71. Woodguy says:


    godot10:
    The Krueger bashers are somewhat selective in their analysis.

    i don’t think we are bashing him, he just wasn’t good enough to miss when he’s gone.

    1)comparing Krueger’s 1st year without a training camp and with a compressed schedule with Renney’s 2nd year.

    True


    2) Not taking Renney’s easy eastern conference games out of the comparison.

    True


    3) Neglecting Krueger’s top quintile special team’s.And a superior power play two years running.

    If you are going to Renney’s entire record at his feet, you cannot separate out ST for one then not the other.

    Wasn’t it Krueger who introduced the horrible diamond PK, which was abandoned?


    4) Neglecting the destruction of Paajarvi and Lander under Renney.

    Not neglecting it.

    Krueger used those players correctly and still had dismal results. Actually a negative to Krueger.


    5) Krueger explicitly employing a longer term strategy to develop his ES game.

    The fell off a cliff in shot attempt percentage. Was his long term goal to get below 40%?

    Etc

  72. Woodguy says:

    godot10: 6) Renney had Gilbert for most of the season. Krueger had to play a rookie in the top 4 against tough competition.
    7) Management forced Krueger to be short a player most of the season by refusing to waive Peckham.
    8) management refused to hire an associate coach.

    6) True – Man, Tambellini was awful

    7) True – Man. Tambellini was awful

    8) Are you sure he asked and they said no? I don’t know either way.

  73. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think you mentioned something about Krug and MAB.

    I tweeted this out on June 7th:

    Darcy McLeod ‏@Woodguy55 7 Jun
    Krug is a better all around version of MA Bergeron when he came in the NHL. Another good, smaller, offensive minded undrafted Dman.

    Great minds and all.

    Ha! need to get a twitter account one of these days.

    Here’s what I wrote yesterday (you were way ahead of me… apparently my insight lags by about a week):

    “BTW does this Krug remind anyone else of MAB?
    all that short chaos.”

  74. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: He seemed more married to his ideas, and forced them in situations that called for more thinking on his feet.

    Post firing RK alluded to this:

    “I’d have to concur it must be a philosophical void. I’ve never compromised my coaching philosophy over 24 years … I’m pretty adamant on it. People could ask me any question at any time and I’d give the answer because it would come out of my philosophy.”

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Fired+Edmonton+Oilers+coach+Krueger/8500603/story.html

    Basically refusing to tinker when something clearly isn’t working isn’t a great sign… and going into a series of meetings with a new GM that has serious concerns about some things (MacT never came out and said what they were) seems like a bad idea.

  75. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ryan: IMO, I think there’s a difference at least in their verbals between the two. Krueger sounds superficially really bright–but there wasn’t much depth or substance to anything he ever said.

    I would stop short of this.

    In his press conferences he came across as having a good grasp of scoring chances and playing with/without a lead and its effects.

    He didn’t strike me as puffed up with empty platitudes. He seemed much more concrete than your average coach to me.

  76. Bag of Pucks says:

    One of the most annoying aspects of the Internet? The ongoing bastardization of the English language.

    Verbal is no more a noun (verbals) than compete is an adjective.

    Note to Millenials: using language like “His verbals emphasize a high compete level” does not make you sound trendy. It makes you sound illiterate.

  77. FastOil says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Ecstatic about Arco.

    I’ll be very curious to see how the Centre depth chart shakes out down in OKC (not to mention up in EDM).Lander, Arco and Miller. All young prospects with some distance between them and the NHL, but pushing all the same.

    I gather OKC is going to need to retain Green (or the like) to ensure some kind of vet depth at C down there… or at least some size! haha

    My question is going to be whether MacT falls into the top6 vs bottom6 size trap and relegates Arco to top6 call up duty only. And whether this signing is early season insurance on RNH’s recovery.

    There are 5 guys in the league listed 170 or under according to PPP:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlBZxpXinYkCdGJHeHg1TGRwNG5SLUNiYlgyTHBwdEE&hl=en#gid=1

    I would prefer if the top of the farm team had players on it that might actually have an NHL career, develop enough to help the team become better. Marincin and Davidson are good examples. OKC’s top 3 forwards are really small and not even the type of players the Oilers want so why have all of them?

    If they were half crazed like Marchand I could see it, but they aren’t so I don’t see how they fit in with the Oilers. I could see one perhaps for offense at the AHL level . Maybe MacT will change this as we go along, who knows? At some point which I guess is under 170 you are just too small for NHL level hockey today or more tiny guys would make it.

    St Louis is 5’8″ 180 and built like a tank. Larionov is 5’9″ and played at 170 but he’s a world class all time player, and that wasn’t ‘as’ small when he played. Odds too low for me. They probably were hoping Rajala would grow but he’s 22 now, oh well.

  78. Mr DeBakey says:

    Wasn’t it Krueger who introduced the horrible diamond PK, which was abandoned?

    if they weren’t running a diamond this past season, then i don’t know what a girl’s best friend looks like.

  79. Spydyr says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Not to be a dick… And I add the caveat that I make apostrophe errors all the time… but this one gives me the twitch.

    When using a person or thing as a plural example you don’t need the possessive apostrophe.

    “If you need a good example of memorable British character actors look no further than the Peter Bulls of the cinema world.”

    Want to know who likes the guy that corrects minor grammatical errors in a sports blog comments section……….No one.

  80. Spydyr says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I really hope Arco, Rajala, Omark, Lander and down the road Miller get a chance at the 4th line next year (preconceptions about “checking” lines be damned)… Arco and Lander especially should be given a chance at the wing (ie., having a 4th line of all centres)

    Yes, because the team desperately need to get smaller and easier to play against.

  81. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Spydyr,

    Cheers!

  82. Spydyr says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Spydyr,

    Cheers!

    Cheers back at you.Now back to hockey.Do you not feel the Oilers are too soft and need to get harder to play against?

    IMO a team needs many roles filled.The Oilers have enough small skilled players.What they need is some heart, grit and size.Not talking coke machines,players that can play the game.Take and give a pass but also stand up for their teammates.Maybe even get under the other teams skin.

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